History WhatMeasureIsANonHuman / Literature

6th Dec '17 1:41:48 PM Xtifr
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** In ''[[Literature/TheLaundrySeries The Jennifer Morgue]]'', it's a reasonably major plot point that the CIA doesn't consider anyone with demonic ancestry to be legally human.

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** In ''[[Literature/TheLaundrySeries The Jennifer Morgue]]'', ''Literature/TheJenniferMorgue'', it's a reasonably major plot point that the CIA doesn't consider anyone with demonic ancestry to be legally human.
19th Oct '17 12:50:46 PM Valkyr
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* Much of the plot and backstory of ''Literature/HereticalEdge'' revolves around in-universe arguments over this. According to [[spoiler: most]] [[HunterOfMonsters Heretics]], non-human life is worth nothing. According to the story, just as much as human life. [[spoiler: According to the revolutionaries, just as much as human life.]]

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* Much of the plot and backstory of ''Literature/HereticalEdge'' revolves around in-universe arguments over this. According to [[spoiler: most]] [[HunterOfMonsters Heretics]], non-human life is worth nothing. According to the story, just as much as human life. [[spoiler: According to the revolutionaries, just as much as human life.]]
19th Oct '17 12:36:07 PM Valkyr
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* Much of the plot and backstory of ''Literature/HereticalEdge'' revolves around in-universe arguments over this. According to [[spoiler: most]] [[HunterOfMonsters Heretics]], non-human life is worth nothing. According to the story, just as much as human life. [[spoiler: According to the revolutionaries, just as much as human life.]]
8th Jul '17 2:37:05 PM CG-Druid
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* The German booklet series ''Maddrax'' has the [[{{Ratmen}} taratzes]]. They are mutant, huge rats that are bigger than humans. Some of them can even learn human language. They are also a smart species. Although most of them are not as smart as humans, they are much smarter than animals. Most taratzes live in packs, and chase other mutated animals, but sometimes humans. At the beginning of the plot you can also see several human-friendly taratzes, which help the protagonists. But later in the series they are brutally killed whenever they are seen. In some cases, they did not even attack humans. Because the world in which the story is played is [[AfterTheEnd post-apocalyptic]], you can also see many barbarians and cannibals attacking and killing entire villages [[RapePillageAndBurn for no or little reason]]. Nevertheless, the protagonists never have problems killing a taratze, but none of the attacking barbarians, if they can be avoided this.
26th Jun '17 12:47:41 PM LordInsane
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** The ''one'' time aliens appear in what is undoubtedly a story set in the Robots/Empire/Foundation setting written by Asimov himself, the human protagonist clearly sees them as no less important than humans -- and manipulates bureaucracy so they (effectively on a reservation of their homeworld) get a chance to leave the overwhelmingly human-dominated Milky Way for another galaxy. This does not mean it could not be played with in other ways in other stories... [spoiler: for instance, by meddling with the definition of human for the robots made on one planet so as to define ''only'' humans speaking with the local dialect as humans...]]

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** The ''one'' time aliens appear in what is undoubtedly a story set in the Robots/Empire/Foundation setting written by Asimov himself, the human protagonist clearly sees them as no less important than humans -- and manipulates bureaucracy so they (effectively on a reservation of their homeworld) get a chance to leave the overwhelmingly human-dominated Milky Way for another galaxy. This does not mean it could not be played with in other ways in other stories... [spoiler: [[spoiler: for instance, by meddling with the definition of human for the robots made on one planet so as to define ''only'' humans speaking with the local dialect as humans...]]
25th Jun '17 1:32:44 PM nombretomado
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* In the beginning of the series, ''Literature/TheGuardians'' regard vampires at best as victims and at worst as abominations. Colin [[WhatTheHellHero calls Michael out]] on this and demands to be recognized as a person capable of choosing between good and evil. Since then, the Guardians have been working with vampire communities to mutual benefit.

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* In the beginning of the series, ''Literature/TheGuardians'' ''Literature/{{The Guardians|MeljeanBrook}}'' regard vampires at best as victims and at worst as abominations. Colin [[WhatTheHellHero calls Michael out]] on this and demands to be recognized as a person capable of choosing between good and evil. Since then, the Guardians have been working with vampire communities to mutual benefit.
11th May '17 1:12:38 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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* Something very like this is involved in Creator/CSLewis's ''[[Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia The Silver Chair]]''. [[spoiler:The BigBad forsakes a human form for that of [[ScaledUp a ginormous snake]] just before being vanquished, which makes hacking her head off more acceptable despite the fact that it's ''still the same person'']]. May be more a case of WouldntHitAGirl.
** Definitely a case of WouldntHitAGirl, the hero even states as much.
** In the same book, there's the different reactions the main characters have once they overhear [[LetsMeetTheMeat the origins of the meat they've just been fed]] while staying with some giants...
** Also the BigBad's mooks. At first the children regard them as demonic and evil but after the Bad is defeated it is revealed that they were enslaved by a spell and are, depite their appearance not demons at all.
** ''Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia'' in general have the problem that Narnia is a country full of fantastic creatures, but to a large part they're just local color while the humans (and ideally human visitors from the "real" world at that) do the ''important'' stuff. A hundred years of winter under the reign of the White Witch, but it takes four kids from real world Britain to stumble into a wardrobe for Aslan to bother showing up and everyone to rally to actually ''do'' anything about her. When the same kids come back post-timeskip and discover to their shock that Narnia's been conquered by humans, it's only to put the "correct" spawn of ''that exact human dynasty'' on the throne and once they do it's all sunshine and rainbows again. The ''Dawn Treader'' leaves Narnia on [[Literature/TheVoyageOfTheDawnTreader her eponymous voyage]] with a single nonhuman crew member who's mostly there for comic relief. And so on.

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* Something very like this is involved in Creator/CSLewis's ''[[Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia The Silver Chair]]''. [[spoiler:The BigBad forsakes a human form for that of [[ScaledUp a ginormous snake]] just before being vanquished, which makes hacking her head off more acceptable despite the fact that it's ''still the same person'']]. May be more a case of WouldntHitAGirl.
** Definitely a case of WouldntHitAGirl, the hero even states as much.
** In the same book, there's the different reactions the main characters have once they overhear [[LetsMeetTheMeat the origins of the meat they've just been fed]] while staying with some giants...
** Also the BigBad's mooks. At first the children regard them as demonic and evil but after the Bad is defeated it is revealed that they were enslaved by a spell and are, depite their appearance not demons at all.
**
''Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia'' in general have series has the problem that Narnia is a country full of fantastic creatures, but to a large part they're just local color while the humans (and ideally human visitors from the "real" world at that) do the ''important'' stuff. A hundred years of winter under the reign of the White Witch, but it takes four kids from real world Britain to stumble into a wardrobe for Aslan to bother showing up and everyone to rally to actually ''do'' anything about her. When the same kids come back post-timeskip and discover to their shock that Narnia's been conquered by humans, it's only to put the "correct" spawn of ''that exact human dynasty'' on the throne and once they do it's all sunshine and rainbows again. The ''Dawn Treader'' leaves Narnia on [[Literature/TheVoyageOfTheDawnTreader her eponymous voyage]] with a single nonhuman crew member who's mostly there for comic relief. And so on.on.
** One specific ''Narnia'' book, ''Literature/TheSilverChair'', explores this one a lot:
*** While staying with some giants, the characters have noticeably different reactions upon hearing that the venison they're eating came from a sapient deer. Jill, who's never been to Narnia's world before and hasn't really absorbed the idea, just feels sorrier than normal for the stag and thinks the giants are "rotten" for killing it. Eustace, who has a little more experience with talking animals, including as close friends, is "horrified" in the way "you would feel about a murder." Puddleglum, who's native to Narnia, considers himself to have been made a cannibal and takes it as a curse from [[CrystalDragonJesus Aslan]] for messing up their mission so badly; he almost seems to think that there's no way to atone for what they've done, even though it was accidental, without ending their lives.
*** The climax mixes this with WouldntHitAGirl when [[spoiler:the BigBad forsakes a human form for that of [[ScaledUp a ginormous snake]] just before being vanquished, which makes hacking her head off more acceptable despite the fact that it's ''still the same person'']]. Earlier, the book also explores
*** Not to mention the BigBad's mooks. At first the children regard them as demonic and evil, but after the climax, it is revealed that they were enslaved by a spell and are, depite their appearance, not demonic at all.
6th May '17 5:51:39 AM LordInsane
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Added DiffLines:

** The ''one'' time aliens appear in what is undoubtedly a story set in the Robots/Empire/Foundation setting written by Asimov himself, the human protagonist clearly sees them as no less important than humans -- and manipulates bureaucracy so they (effectively on a reservation of their homeworld) get a chance to leave the overwhelmingly human-dominated Milky Way for another galaxy. This does not mean it could not be played with in other ways in other stories... [spoiler: for instance, by meddling with the definition of human for the robots made on one planet so as to define ''only'' humans speaking with the local dialect as humans...]]
16th Apr '17 2:56:08 PM nombretomado
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* In Lee Lightner's TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} SpaceWolf novel ''Sons of Fenris'', Cadmus, while surrounded by servitors, nevertheless thinks of himself as alone because they are more machine than man. They really are- and not ''sentient'' machines either. Aside from physical enhancements, the process of creating a Servitor essentially consists of tearing out any part of the original human brain not immediately useful for the Servitor's assigned task. In a real sense they're dead- the practice of creating them shows just how much measure even a ''human'' is in the CrapsackWorld of TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}. Although a Tech Priest would see otherwise.

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* In Lee Lightner's TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} SpaceWolf Literature/SpaceWolf novel ''Sons of Fenris'', Cadmus, while surrounded by servitors, nevertheless thinks of himself as alone because they are more machine than man. They really are- and not ''sentient'' machines either. Aside from physical enhancements, the process of creating a Servitor essentially consists of tearing out any part of the original human brain not immediately useful for the Servitor's assigned task. In a real sense they're dead- the practice of creating them shows just how much measure even a ''human'' is in the CrapsackWorld of TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}. Although a Tech Priest would see otherwise.
19th Mar '17 10:24:44 AM Sammettik
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--->"[A]ny creature that has sufficient intelligence to understand the laws of the magical community and to bear part of the responsibility in shaping those laws."[softreturn]
:: Interestingly, centaurs and merpeople qualify as beings under this standard, but demanded classification as "beasts" regardless.

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--->"[A]ny creature that has sufficient intelligence to understand the laws of the magical community and to bear part of the responsibility in shaping those laws."[softreturn]
::
"
***
Interestingly, centaurs and merpeople qualify as beings under this standard, but demanded classification as "beasts" regardless.



'''Royal (Kingsley Shacklebolt)''': "I'd say that it's one short step from "wizards first" to "pure-bloods first", and then to "Death Eaters". We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving."[softreturn]
:: However, that sympathy does not extend to letting them in on TheMasquerade and giving them the choice to flee the country when the BigBad takes power, or giving them legal protection from being {{Mind Wipe}}d whenever it's convenient.

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'''Royal (Kingsley Shacklebolt)''': "I'd say that it's one short step from "wizards first" to "pure-bloods first", and then to "Death Eaters". We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving."[softreturn]
::
"
***
However, that sympathy does not extend to letting them in on TheMasquerade and giving them the choice to flee the country when the BigBad takes power, or giving them legal protection from being {{Mind Wipe}}d whenever it's convenient.



* This trope is in full play in the Literature/MoreauSeries. The titular [[UpliftedAnimal Moreaus]] were created as soldiers and workers in hazardous places, and treated as expendable despite being fully sapient. This has long-term consequences, as moreaus tend to have short lifespans and are prone to all severe physical degeneration with age. Even after the wars that spawned them are ended, they're treated as second-class citizens at best and slaves at worst across the globe. The [[BioAugmentation engineered humans]] called Frankensteins are treated no better, despite looking fully or almost fully human (Evi Isham has catlike pupils for enhanced nightvision, while Mr K's skull is slightly deformed to accomodate his altered brain).
* In _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ by L. Frank Baum, the antagonist General Jinjur says "I bear you no ill will, I assure you; but lest you should prove troublesome to me in the future I shall order you all to be destroyed. That is, all except the boy, who belongs to old Mombi and must be restored to her keeping. The rest of you are not human, and therefore it will not be wicked to demolish you." While the heroes consider this direly bad, no one says it would be murdering prisoners. Separately, the narrator notes that the Saw Horse (a sentient creature) enters the palace of the Tin Woodsman, 'having no idea that mounts would be expected to remain outside'.

to:

* This trope is in full play in the Literature/MoreauSeries.''Literature/MoreauSeries''. The titular [[UpliftedAnimal Moreaus]] were created as soldiers and workers in hazardous places, and treated as expendable despite being fully sapient. This has long-term consequences, as moreaus tend to have short lifespans and are prone to all severe physical degeneration with age. Even after the wars that spawned them are ended, they're treated as second-class citizens at best and slaves at worst across the globe. The [[BioAugmentation engineered humans]] called Frankensteins are treated no better, despite looking fully or almost fully human (Evi Isham has catlike pupils for enhanced nightvision, while Mr K's skull is slightly deformed to accomodate his altered brain).
* In _The ''The Marvelous Land of Oz_ Oz'' by L. Frank Baum, the antagonist General Jinjur says "I bear you no ill will, I assure you; but lest you should prove troublesome to me in the future I shall order you all to be destroyed. That is, all except the boy, who belongs to old Mombi and must be restored to her keeping. The rest of you are not human, and therefore it will not be wicked to demolish you." While the heroes consider this direly bad, no one says it would be murdering prisoners. Separately, the narrator notes that the Saw Horse (a sentient creature) enters the palace of the Tin Woodsman, 'having no idea that mounts would be expected to remain outside'.
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