Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:Ardenweald is the "true" purpose of the Shadowlands and everything else exists to support it]]
* The Titans needed a way to ensure that the beings they empowered could not permanently die. To that end, they created Ardenweald as a place for them to regain their strength if something managed to kill them. Bastion brings souls to the Arbiter for sorting, Maldraxxus trains warriors to defend the Shadowlands, Revendreth extracts anima to feed the wildseeds, Oribos makes sure everything stays in working order, and the Maw is a trash bin for anything that could damage the system. This is also why Bwonsomdi sets up shop there despite not fitting in with the aesthetic, he's gonna go where the true power lies.
* The Titans needed a way to ensure that the beings they empowered could not permanently die. To that end, they created Ardenweald as a place for them to regain their strength if something managed to kill them. Bastion brings souls to the Arbiter for sorting, Maldraxxus trains warriors to defend the Shadowlands, Revendreth extracts anima to feed the wildseeds, Oribos makes sure everything stays in working order, and the Maw is a trash bin for anything that could damage the system. This is also why Bwonsomdi sets up shop there despite not fitting in with the aesthetic, he's gonna go where the true power lies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 921 (click to see context) from:
to:
** The Winter Queen has stated Ysera is the pet of her "sister". This could align her as the sister of Eonar, who originally empowered Ysera.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
This time I used the preview to make sure I got it right.
Changed line(s) 947,949 (click to see context) from:
** Building on this, there's an item that can be found in Sinfall, a book called [[https://www.wowhead.com/item=183742/enemy-infiltration-preface Enemy Infiltration - Preface]]
]], that summarizes the weaknesses of the Titans, Legion, Void Lords, the Light, and Life itself, presumably written to Sire Denathrius. While there's nothing directly pointing to the Dreadlords, there are multiple things suggesting them. The item is located in an area called the Spire of the Unseen Guests, and "Unseen Guests" is the meaning for the Nathrezim's own name for themselves. It also mentions things the Dreadlords were directly responsible for (stating that the Titans' unity could be fractured, which the Dreadlords did with Sargeras) and events that they could have been part of (manipulating the Light by making it believe one of their own had converted to its cause, which is the case for Lothraxion) and, last but potentially not least, the fact that the ''Nathr''ezim report to the ruler of Castle ''Nathr''ia, Sire De''nathr''ius.
]], that summarizes the weaknesses of the Titans, Legion, Void Lords, the Light, and Life itself, presumably written to Sire Denathrius. While there's nothing directly pointing to the Dreadlords, there are multiple things suggesting them. The item is located in an area called the Spire of the Unseen Guests, and "Unseen Guests" is the meaning for the Nathrezim's own name for themselves. It also mentions things the Dreadlords were directly responsible for (stating that the Titans' unity could be fractured, which the Dreadlords did with Sargeras) and events that they could have been part of (manipulating the Light by making it believe one of their own had converted to its cause, which is the case for Lothraxion) and, last but potentially not least, the fact that the ''Nathr''ezim report to the ruler of Castle ''Nathr''ia, Sire De''nathr''ius.
to:
** Building on this, there's an item that can be found in Sinfall, a book called [[https://www.wowhead.com/item=183742/enemy-infiltration-preface Enemy Infiltration - Preface]]
]],Preface]], that summarizes the weaknesses of the Titans, Legion, Void Lords, the Light, and Life itself, presumably written to Sire Denathrius. While there's nothing directly pointing to the Dreadlords, there are multiple things suggesting them. The item is located in an area called the Spire of the Unseen Guests, and "Unseen Guests" is the meaning for the Nathrezim's own name for themselves. It also mentions things the Dreadlords were directly responsible for (stating that the Titans' unity could be fractured, which the Dreadlords did with Sargeras) and events that they could have been part of (manipulating the Light by making it believe one of their own had converted to its cause, which is the case for Lothraxion) and, last but potentially not least, the fact that the ''Nathr''ezim report to the ruler of Castle ''Nathr''ia, Sire De''nathr''ius.
]],
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 947 (click to see context) from:
** Building on this, there's an item that can be found in Sinfall, a book called [[https://www.wowhead.com/item=183742/enemy-infiltration-preface Enemy Infiltration - Preface
to:
** Building on this, there's an item that can be found in Sinfall, a book called [[https://www.wowhead.com/item=183742/enemy-infiltration-preface Enemy Infiltration - PrefacePreface]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 947 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Building on this, there's an item that can be found in Sinfall, a book called [[https://www.wowhead.com/item=183742/enemy-infiltration-preface Enemy Infiltration - Preface
]], that summarizes the weaknesses of the Titans, Legion, Void Lords, the Light, and Life itself, presumably written to Sire Denathrius. While there's nothing directly pointing to the Dreadlords, there are multiple things suggesting them. The item is located in an area called the Spire of the Unseen Guests, and "Unseen Guests" is the meaning for the Nathrezim's own name for themselves. It also mentions things the Dreadlords were directly responsible for (stating that the Titans' unity could be fractured, which the Dreadlords did with Sargeras) and events that they could have been part of (manipulating the Light by making it believe one of their own had converted to its cause, which is the case for Lothraxion) and, last but potentially not least, the fact that the ''Nathr''ezim report to the ruler of Castle ''Nathr''ia, Sire De''nathr''ius.
]], that summarizes the weaknesses of the Titans, Legion, Void Lords, the Light, and Life itself, presumably written to Sire Denathrius. While there's nothing directly pointing to the Dreadlords, there are multiple things suggesting them. The item is located in an area called the Spire of the Unseen Guests, and "Unseen Guests" is the meaning for the Nathrezim's own name for themselves. It also mentions things the Dreadlords were directly responsible for (stating that the Titans' unity could be fractured, which the Dreadlords did with Sargeras) and events that they could have been part of (manipulating the Light by making it believe one of their own had converted to its cause, which is the case for Lothraxion) and, last but potentially not least, the fact that the ''Nathr''ezim report to the ruler of Castle ''Nathr''ia, Sire De''nathr''ius.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 986,987 (click to see context) from:
* The vampiric San'layn were teased as a possible future allied race when they appeared in a Battle for Azeroth storyline. Kael'thas is stil fairly popular and and loads of story potential, which was ultimately hangstrung by the technical limits of early WoW. It's likely that much like with Illidan they will seak to correct that.
to:
* The vampiric San'layn were teased as a possible future allied race when they appeared in a Battle for Azeroth storyline. Kael'thas is stil fairly popular and and loads of story potential, which was ultimately hangstrung by the technical limits of early WoW.[=WoW=]. It's likely that much like with Illidan they will seak to correct that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 105 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Confirmed: Kel'Thuzad returns in Shadowlands as an antagonist in Maldraxxus.
Changed line(s) 1009 (click to see context) from:
to:
** His soul could have been sent to Revendreth initially only for Sire Denathrius to personally redirect him to Maldraxxus as part of his alliance with the Jailer.
** The Lich King's Val'kyr might have been able to redirect his soul after he died, bypassing the Arbiter much as Devos and Uther did with Arthas.
[[WMG:The Val'kyr who "saved" Sylvanas were the ones who sent her to the Maw]]
* The Val'kyr who allied with Sylvanas obviously had the ability to redirect her soul given they prevented her initial descent into the afterlife. However they were also ''responsible'' for her going directly to the Maw. They captured her soul before the kyrian were aware and offered her the chance to return to undeath. When she refused, they cast her into the Maw where she caught the Jailer's interest. Had they not intervened, Sylvanas would have at worst been sent to Revendreth due to her sins as leader of the Forsaken.
** The Lich King's Val'kyr might have been able to redirect his soul after he died, bypassing the Arbiter much as Devos and Uther did with Arthas.
[[WMG:The Val'kyr who "saved" Sylvanas were the ones who sent her to the Maw]]
* The Val'kyr who allied with Sylvanas obviously had the ability to redirect her soul given they prevented her initial descent into the afterlife. However they were also ''responsible'' for her going directly to the Maw. They captured her soul before the kyrian were aware and offered her the chance to return to undeath. When she refused, they cast her into the Maw where she caught the Jailer's interest. Had they not intervened, Sylvanas would have at worst been sent to Revendreth due to her sins as leader of the Forsaken.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:Kel'Thuzad cheated his way out of being sent to Revendreth or the Maw]]
* Despite causing immense death and suffering on Azeroth, Kel'Thuzad managed to avoid punishment in the afterlife. It is possible he gained [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections connections]] in the Shadowlands that let him bypass the Arbiter's judgment. Alternatively, his phylactery was directly delivered to Maldraxxus (possibly at the request of Margrave Sin'dane or Baroness Ninadar for their own purposes) instead of being presented to the Arbiter.
* Despite causing immense death and suffering on Azeroth, Kel'Thuzad managed to avoid punishment in the afterlife. It is possible he gained [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections connections]] in the Shadowlands that let him bypass the Arbiter's judgment. Alternatively, his phylactery was directly delivered to Maldraxxus (possibly at the request of Margrave Sin'dane or Baroness Ninadar for their own purposes) instead of being presented to the Arbiter.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:A content patch will focus on a "lost" realm overrun by Devourers]]
* Background lore states that nobody knows where the Devourers come from but it's speculated they are breeding on a lost realm in the In-Between. Players will visit one of these realms both to cull their numbers and search for information from before the Jailer's imprisonment.
* Background lore states that nobody knows where the Devourers come from but it's speculated they are breeding on a lost realm in the In-Between. Players will visit one of these realms both to cull their numbers and search for information from before the Jailer's imprisonment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1002 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Alternatively, the Jailer's crime was the creation of something which draws all souls to his realm. Realizing their own realms would be starved, the other Eternal Ones attacked the Maw in an attempt to stop this but were unable to do so. The Maw itself was shattered and the Jailer chained; the Eternal Ones then set up the Arbiter in the center of the flow of souls headed for the Maw to forcibly direct them away.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1001,1002 (click to see context) from:
* It seems awfully strange that the "default" position of Oribos (based on its design and function when the Arbiter is down) is to redirect everyone into an inescapable land of torture. The Maw also has a First Ones waystone to leave it, implying that it may not have originally been designed to be inescapable. Finally, the Arbiter is the only Eternal One to appear artificial. My conclusion is that the Maw was originally a normal land in the Shadowlands (maybe even technically the only one, like Kalimdor on Azeroth before the Sundering). Then the Jailer did ''something'' that shattered the Shadowlands. As punishment, he was imprisoned in the area left irrecoverable after this cataclysm, becoming the Maw, and the Arbiter was created not so much to direct souls to their proper destinations, but to direct them ''away'' from where Oribos was originally designed to send them. This would also be the twist on the Jailer's motives. He has lured many to his cause with a sympathetic story about a corrupt system, but conveniently leaves out the part where the system was built as a necessary evil to cover for ''his'' mess.
to:
* It seems awfully strange that the "default" position of Oribos (based on its design and function when the Arbiter is down) is to redirect direct everyone straight into an inescapable land of torture. The Maw also has a First Ones waystone to leave it, implying that it may not have originally been designed to be inescapable. Finally, the Arbiter is the only Eternal One to appear artificial. My conclusion is that the Maw was originally a normal land in the Shadowlands (maybe even technically the only one, like Kalimdor on Azeroth before the Sundering). Then the Jailer did ''something'' that shattered the Shadowlands. As punishment, he was imprisoned in the area left most irrecoverable after this cataclysm, becoming cataclysm (now the Maw, Maw), and the Arbiter was created not so much to direct souls to their proper destinations, but to direct them ''away'' from where Oribos was originally designed to send them. This would also be the twist on the Jailer's motives.motives, a way for his claims to not offset his role as the BigBad. He has lured many to his cause with a sympathetic story about a corrupt system, but conveniently leaves out the part where the system was built as a necessary evil to cover for ''his'' mess.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:The Jailer is responsible for the current system that he wants to overthrow]]
* It seems awfully strange that the "default" position of Oribos (based on its design and function when the Arbiter is down) is to redirect everyone into an inescapable land of torture. The Maw also has a First Ones waystone to leave it, implying that it may not have originally been designed to be inescapable. Finally, the Arbiter is the only Eternal One to appear artificial. My conclusion is that the Maw was originally a normal land in the Shadowlands (maybe even technically the only one, like Kalimdor on Azeroth before the Sundering). Then the Jailer did ''something'' that shattered the Shadowlands. As punishment, he was imprisoned in the area left irrecoverable after this cataclysm, becoming the Maw, and the Arbiter was created not so much to direct souls to their proper destinations, but to direct them ''away'' from where Oribos was originally designed to send them. This would also be the twist on the Jailer's motives. He has lured many to his cause with a sympathetic story about a corrupt system, but conveniently leaves out the part where the system was built as a necessary evil to cover for ''his'' mess.
* It seems awfully strange that the "default" position of Oribos (based on its design and function when the Arbiter is down) is to redirect everyone into an inescapable land of torture. The Maw also has a First Ones waystone to leave it, implying that it may not have originally been designed to be inescapable. Finally, the Arbiter is the only Eternal One to appear artificial. My conclusion is that the Maw was originally a normal land in the Shadowlands (maybe even technically the only one, like Kalimdor on Azeroth before the Sundering). Then the Jailer did ''something'' that shattered the Shadowlands. As punishment, he was imprisoned in the area left irrecoverable after this cataclysm, becoming the Maw, and the Arbiter was created not so much to direct souls to their proper destinations, but to direct them ''away'' from where Oribos was originally designed to send them. This would also be the twist on the Jailer's motives. He has lured many to his cause with a sympathetic story about a corrupt system, but conveniently leaves out the part where the system was built as a necessary evil to cover for ''his'' mess.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 991 (click to see context) from:
to:
** "Enemy Infiltration" all but states that Lothraxion, the Lightforged nathrezim and Turalyon's close ally, is a double agent planted by Sire Denathrius. He now has a direct line to the head of the Alliance and can exercise his race's penchant for guiding other races to their downfall.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 997 (click to see context) from:
to:
** "Enemy Infiltration" all but says that the nathrezim are an entire race of double agents created by Sire Denathrius to undermine the other cosmic powers. If this is the case, they've had access to Argus for all of that time as well and could have been subtly manipulating it specifically to cause this. And backing this up is the fact that only the anima of ''Venthyr'' production turns red.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:The Red Soul that slammed into The Arbiter that knocked her unconscious during the cinematic was actually the soul of Argus the Unmaker]]
* When we first contain Argus' World Soul in The Seat of The Pantheon, it looked like a normal constellation until Sargeras awakened him; the constellation turned red before Argus formed. All of the Titans were created from the raw Arcane power that the Universe was born from; to have such a mighty soul die and [[PoweredByAForsakenChild one that was tortured and twisted over 25,000 years to resurrect the Legions' vast armies]] to wage war against all of creation. I can only imagine that whatever little The Arbiter had seen within Argus was enough to render her unconscious to prevent herself from [[GoMadFromTheRevelation going insane at what she saw.]]
* When we first contain Argus' World Soul in The Seat of The Pantheon, it looked like a normal constellation until Sargeras awakened him; the constellation turned red before Argus formed. All of the Titans were created from the raw Arcane power that the Universe was born from; to have such a mighty soul die and [[PoweredByAForsakenChild one that was tortured and twisted over 25,000 years to resurrect the Legions' vast armies]] to wage war against all of creation. I can only imagine that whatever little The Arbiter had seen within Argus was enough to render her unconscious to prevent herself from [[GoMadFromTheRevelation going insane at what she saw.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:The Runecarver is the actual Banished One while the Jailer usurped his position]]
* When the Banished One was cast into the Maw all contact was severed between him and the Eternal Ones who are still our allies. As such none of them were aware that there was a rebellion and the Jailer usurped his power and authority. The Runecarver has had so many of his memories drained that he can't quite recall who he was; over the course of the expansion he'll regain them thanks to us and challenge the Jailer for his stolen throne.
* When the Banished One was cast into the Maw all contact was severed between him and the Eternal Ones who are still our allies. As such none of them were aware that there was a rebellion and the Jailer usurped his power and authority. The Runecarver has had so many of his memories drained that he can't quite recall who he was; over the course of the expansion he'll regain them thanks to us and challenge the Jailer for his stolen throne.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 987 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG:Turalyon's regency is going to cause trouble for the Alliance in the long run]]
to:
[[WMG:Turalyon's regency is going to cause some trouble for the Alliance in the long run]]
Changed line(s) 989 (click to see context) from:
** His dailogue after Anduin is along the lines of "Perhaps there are other holdings of the old Alliance that could be secured" and that has historically ended... poorly for the Alliance.
to:
** His dailogue after Anduin taken is along the lines of "Perhaps there are other holdings of the old Alliance that could be secured" and that has historically ended... poorly for the Alliance.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:Turalyon's regency is going to cause trouble for the Alliance in the long run]]
* Let's be clear: Turalyon is great. But he probably shouldn't be in charge of the Entire Alliance, he's a military commander, not a statesman or a diplomat.
**His dailogue after Anduin is along the lines of "Perhaps there are other holdings of the old Alliance that could be secured" and that has historically ended... poorly for the Alliance.
**Furthermore, if his lines from the Battle of Stromgarde are any indication he has... kind of old fashioned values on how things should work on Azeroth. "Monsterous Horde", scoffing at Horde Paladins, etc.
* Let's be clear: Turalyon is great. But he probably shouldn't be in charge of the Entire Alliance, he's a military commander, not a statesman or a diplomat.
**His dailogue after Anduin is along the lines of "Perhaps there are other holdings of the old Alliance that could be secured" and that has historically ended... poorly for the Alliance.
**Furthermore, if his lines from the Battle of Stromgarde are any indication he has... kind of old fashioned values on how things should work on Azeroth. "Monsterous Horde", scoffing at Horde Paladins, etc.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It's hard not to think that, given how vampire themed his area is.
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:Kael'thas will eventually return to the land of the living as a vampire elf, maybe even their leader]]
*The vampiric San'layn were teased as a possible future allied race when they appeared in a Battle for Azeroth storyline. Kael'thas is stil fairly popular and and loads of story potential, which was ultimately hangstrung by the technical limits of early WoW. It's likely that much like with Illidan they will seak to correct that.
*The vampiric San'layn were teased as a possible future allied race when they appeared in a Battle for Azeroth storyline. Kael'thas is stil fairly popular and and loads of story potential, which was ultimately hangstrung by the technical limits of early WoW. It's likely that much like with Illidan they will seak to correct that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 909 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Jossed. What did I expect...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
** The Blades of the Fallen Prince played a role. These blades were reforged using the remains of Frostmourne, a weapon crafted in the Maw using the Jailer's power. While crafted at Bolvar's request, he was likely guided by knowledge gifted by the Maw-crafted Helm of Domination. It's not hard to imagine that they could have been secretly designed to bring about the current situation.
Changed line(s) 938,939 (click to see context) from:
** The Blades of the Fallen Prince played a role. These blades were reforged using the remains of Frostmourne, a weapon crafted in the Maw using the Jailer's power. While crafted at Bolvar's request, he was likely guided by knowledge gifted by the Maw-crafted Helm of Domination. It's not hard to imagine that they could have been secretly designed to bring about the current situation.
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
*** Backing this, internally Argus is referred to as the "Titan of Death" and thematically he uses armor similar to the Eternal Travelers and magic that has the same color motif as death magic.
Changed line(s) 937 (click to see context) from:
to:
** The Blades of the Fallen Prince played a role. These blades were reforged using the remains of Frostmourne, a weapon crafted in the Maw using the Jailer's power. While crafted at Bolvar's request, he was likely guided by knowledge gifted by the Maw-crafted Helm of Domination. It's not hard to imagine that they could have been secretly designed to bring about the current situation.
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:Sylvanas's soul was split in two by Frostmourne and her "good" side will appear in Shadowlands]]
* In Uther's "Afterlives" video his soul is visibly torn in two when Arthas slays him, half absorbed into Frostmourne and half taken to Bastion. The half bound in Frostmourne possessed some of Uther's best traits which is why the half in Bastion gave into the desire for revenge. The same thing happened to Sylvanas, with the part of her soul that was manifested as a banshee lacking the compassion and hope that drove her while living. Finding the other half of her soul will play a role in the Banshee Queen's downfall.
[[WMG:Revendreth's real purpose is to deny the Jailer anima]]
* According to their original purpose, Revendreth exists to cleanse the most sinful souls and grant them a chance at redemption. While this is one outcome of their process, the main purpose is to ensure the Jailer receives as little anima as possible. Souls that cannot be redeemed will be drained of as much anima as possible before they are sentenced to the Maw, ensuring the Jailer can never rebuild his strength.
* In Uther's "Afterlives" video his soul is visibly torn in two when Arthas slays him, half absorbed into Frostmourne and half taken to Bastion. The half bound in Frostmourne possessed some of Uther's best traits which is why the half in Bastion gave into the desire for revenge. The same thing happened to Sylvanas, with the part of her soul that was manifested as a banshee lacking the compassion and hope that drove her while living. Finding the other half of her soul will play a role in the Banshee Queen's downfall.
[[WMG:Revendreth's real purpose is to deny the Jailer anima]]
* According to their original purpose, Revendreth exists to cleanse the most sinful souls and grant them a chance at redemption. While this is one outcome of their process, the main purpose is to ensure the Jailer receives as little anima as possible. Souls that cannot be redeemed will be drained of as much anima as possible before they are sentenced to the Maw, ensuring the Jailer can never rebuild his strength.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 948 (click to see context) from:
A JustForFun section where we speculate what afterlife in the Shadowlands the various characters ended up in. '''Unmarked spoilers below'':
to:
A JustForFun section where we speculate what afterlife in the Shadowlands the various characters ended up in. '''Unmarked spoilers below'':below''':
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 947 (click to see context) from:
[WMG: Where the souls of ''Warcraft'' are in the Shadowlands]]
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[WMG: Where the souls of ''Warcraft'' are in the Shadowlands]]
A JustForFun section where we speculate what afterlife in the Shadowlands the various characters ended up in. '''Unmarked spoilers below'':
* The Maw
** Both versions of Gul'dan
** Cho'gall
** Xavius
** Archimond
** Kil'jaeden
** Onixia
** Deathwing
** Ner'zhul
** Malkorok
** Vincent Godfrey
* Bastion
** Korialstrasz
** Rhonin
** Cairne Bloodhoof
* Revendreth
** Malygos
* Maldraxxus
** Broxigar Saurfang
** Daelin Proudmoore
* Ardenweald
* The Other Side
* The Light
** Maraad
** Xe'ra
A JustForFun section where we speculate what afterlife in the Shadowlands the various characters ended up in. '''Unmarked spoilers below'':
* The Maw
** Both versions of Gul'dan
** Cho'gall
** Xavius
** Archimond
** Kil'jaeden
** Onixia
** Deathwing
** Ner'zhul
** Malkorok
** Vincent Godfrey
* Bastion
** Korialstrasz
** Rhonin
** Cairne Bloodhoof
* Revendreth
** Malygos
* Maldraxxus
** Broxigar Saurfang
** Daelin Proudmoore
* Ardenweald
* The Other Side
* The Light
** Maraad
** Xe'ra
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 936,937 (click to see context) from:
** None of the above. Either the event will be something we never knew about, or they'll intentionally keep it vague to avoid contradicting it.
to:
** None of the above. Either the event will be something we never knew about, about (like someone in Oribos personally making the Arbiter dormant), or they'll intentionally keep it vague to avoid contradicting it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Arthas would have been sent to Revendreth.]]
* It's true that towards the end, the Lich King was a vile monster that needed to be stopped. But even with his heart cut out and destroyed, some shred of the original Crown Prince was still in Arthas as he died. Let's not forget, he was manipulated into becoming the Lich King in the first place. The crimes he committed in Stratholm and Northrend before taking up Frostmourne were his, yes, but comparatively small potatoes to what he did when his soul was stolen. Had the Arbiter been allowed to judge Arthas, he most likely would have been sent to Revendreth to try and earn his redemption. Uther and Devos denied him that chance by spiriting him away and casting him into the Maw of their own accord.
* It's true that towards the end, the Lich King was a vile monster that needed to be stopped. But even with his heart cut out and destroyed, some shred of the original Crown Prince was still in Arthas as he died. Let's not forget, he was manipulated into becoming the Lich King in the first place. The crimes he committed in Stratholm and Northrend before taking up Frostmourne were his, yes, but comparatively small potatoes to what he did when his soul was stolen. Had the Arbiter been allowed to judge Arthas, he most likely would have been sent to Revendreth to try and earn his redemption. Uther and Devos denied him that chance by spiriting him away and casting him into the Maw of their own accord.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 936 (click to see context) from:
to:
** None of the above. Either the event will be something we never knew about, or they'll intentionally keep it vague to avoid contradicting it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Possible events that broke the engine of death - Feel free to add]]
* We've been told that the engine of death broke sometime around the events of ''Legion''. With Elune able to rescue Ysera's soul in Val'sharah, but ''not'' the night elves of Teldrassil, it's likely that death was broken sometime between those two events. However, the ability to do the zones in any order muddies the question of the canonical order of zones (aside from finding Sylvanas' ship in Azsuna taking place before Stormheim). With that in mind, here are some standout moments:
** Sylvanas' deal with Helya. We still don't know what the details of the deal were, which make it suspicious, but also impossible to pin down.
** Anything regarding Helya's defeat and Odyn's freedom. Odyn circumvented the natural order of death to begin with by creating the val'kyr, and was only able to do so after making a deal with one of the Jailer's associates. While that clearly did not break the engine in the past, the ending of his war with Helya in the expansion could have triggered something new along the way.
** The shattering of the Soulcage. If this worked in the Jailer's favor, it would be strange that he didn't have Sylvanas break it herself. However, Eyir said that Sylvanas didn't know what she was meddling with, so it's likely that the Soulcage was in some way tied into something greater than simply the ability to subjugate val'kyr.
** The Burning Legion using Argus to resurrect themselves. This is an extremely widespread version of meddling with the natural order of death. The details kept changing, but one of the later quests implied that Argus was the only reason the demons were ever able to respawn. It's possible that us turning off this method they had been using to cheat death caused an issue when it was suddenly turned off after so long.
** The stabbing of Azeroth. The Jailer is interested in Azeroth, and she is known to be an unprecedentedly powerful world soul. While Azeroth has no currently known connection to the Shadowlands, the stabbing was nevertheless the meeting of two absurdly powerful cosmic forces, which could understandably have unintended side effects.
* We've been told that the engine of death broke sometime around the events of ''Legion''. With Elune able to rescue Ysera's soul in Val'sharah, but ''not'' the night elves of Teldrassil, it's likely that death was broken sometime between those two events. However, the ability to do the zones in any order muddies the question of the canonical order of zones (aside from finding Sylvanas' ship in Azsuna taking place before Stormheim). With that in mind, here are some standout moments:
** Sylvanas' deal with Helya. We still don't know what the details of the deal were, which make it suspicious, but also impossible to pin down.
** Anything regarding Helya's defeat and Odyn's freedom. Odyn circumvented the natural order of death to begin with by creating the val'kyr, and was only able to do so after making a deal with one of the Jailer's associates. While that clearly did not break the engine in the past, the ending of his war with Helya in the expansion could have triggered something new along the way.
** The shattering of the Soulcage. If this worked in the Jailer's favor, it would be strange that he didn't have Sylvanas break it herself. However, Eyir said that Sylvanas didn't know what she was meddling with, so it's likely that the Soulcage was in some way tied into something greater than simply the ability to subjugate val'kyr.
** The Burning Legion using Argus to resurrect themselves. This is an extremely widespread version of meddling with the natural order of death. The details kept changing, but one of the later quests implied that Argus was the only reason the demons were ever able to respawn. It's possible that us turning off this method they had been using to cheat death caused an issue when it was suddenly turned off after so long.
** The stabbing of Azeroth. The Jailer is interested in Azeroth, and she is known to be an unprecedentedly powerful world soul. While Azeroth has no currently known connection to the Shadowlands, the stabbing was nevertheless the meeting of two absurdly powerful cosmic forces, which could understandably have unintended side effects.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 930,931 (click to see context) from:
Annhylde could bring back the dead with no trouble when it came to Ingvar. When it came to Sylvanas, who had ended up in the Maw in ''Edge of Night'', Annhylde had to die in exchange, but otherwise successfully freed someone from the supposedly inescapable Maw. The story also points out how similar Sylvanas is to the Val'kyr. However, not all souls are ''entirely'' equivalent to each other. ''Three'' Val'kyr had to sacrifice themselves to save Sylvanas in Silverpine. Perhaps the Jailer redirecting all souls to the Maw isn't simply to empower himself, but that a soul as ancient and powerful as his will need millions of mortal souls in order to equal his and take his place to allow him to escape. This would largely be consistent with the idea of the Maw being inescapable, since the Jailer wouldn't be able to find something to replace him under normal circumstances, and the rest of the souls in the Maw are supposed to be so evil that few people would want to sacrifice themselves to rescue them.
to:
* Annhylde could bring back the dead with no trouble when it came to Ingvar. When it came to Sylvanas, who had ended up in the Maw in ''Edge of Night'', Annhylde had to die in exchange, but otherwise successfully freed someone from the supposedly inescapable Maw. The story also points out how similar Sylvanas is to the Val'kyr. However, not all souls are ''entirely'' equivalent to each other. ''Three'' Val'kyr had to sacrifice themselves to save Sylvanas in Silverpine. Perhaps the Jailer redirecting all souls to the Maw isn't simply to empower himself, but that a soul as ancient and powerful as his will need millions of mortal souls in order to equal his and take his place to allow him to escape. This would largely be consistent with the idea of the Maw being inescapable, since the Jailer wouldn't be able to find something to replace him under normal circumstances, and the rest of the souls in the Maw are supposed to be so evil that few people would want to sacrifice themselves to rescue them.
them.
[[WMG: The Dreadlords were working for the Jailer all along]]
* The Nathrezim are known for their deception and infiltration, and what better deception than having even their true allegiance to the Burning Legion be a lie? While not as efficient as breaking the engine of death and sending ''every'' soul to the Maw, assisting the Burning Crusade in wiping out the worlds of the universe is nevertheless going to send quite a bit of deserving souls there. Even with the new lore that the Runecarver created the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, rather than the Dreadlords as we were originally told, that still means the Dreadlords knew about the Maw and had a reason to look there for artifacts. In this case, Mal'ganis would have been angered by Arthas killing him not because Ner'zhul was betraying the Legion, but because he was betraying the ''Jailer'', since we were told that both Ner'zhul and Arthas were holding the power back. Also, this could explain how Varimathras on Argus knew about what Sylvanas was doing despite him being kicked out before she made a pact with the Jailer, if he himself had a connection with the Jailer.
[[WMG: The Dreadlords were working for the Jailer all along]]
* The Nathrezim are known for their deception and infiltration, and what better deception than having even their true allegiance to the Burning Legion be a lie? While not as efficient as breaking the engine of death and sending ''every'' soul to the Maw, assisting the Burning Crusade in wiping out the worlds of the universe is nevertheless going to send quite a bit of deserving souls there. Even with the new lore that the Runecarver created the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, rather than the Dreadlords as we were originally told, that still means the Dreadlords knew about the Maw and had a reason to look there for artifacts. In this case, Mal'ganis would have been angered by Arthas killing him not because Ner'zhul was betraying the Legion, but because he was betraying the ''Jailer'', since we were told that both Ner'zhul and Arthas were holding the power back. Also, this could explain how Varimathras on Argus knew about what Sylvanas was doing despite him being kicked out before she made a pact with the Jailer, if he himself had a connection with the Jailer.
