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* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods (which the servants in each shrine calls "Magnificent"); leading to a future rise of polytheism. (And while the spells you gain are powerful, they're hardly "nuke a city" powerful.)

to:

* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods (which the servants in each shrine calls "Magnificent"); leading to a future rise of polytheism. (And while the spells you gain are powerful, they're hardly "nuke a city" powerful.))

[[WMG: Deneb isn't stealing humans anymore for her body. She's transmuting pumpkin golems into humans and possessing them.]]
Punkin learns how to do this too, which is why she looks exactly like Deneb.
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* As Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha.

to:

* As Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha. \n Ishtar's shrine of light was "subsumed" into Philaha's worship; which is why Abuna Mrueva commented that theoretically there was a shrine of light but that he didn't know where it was. (It was where Sherri had kidnapped him, right next to where he lives)
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[[WMG: The True Form of the 12 Heavenly Generals are their weapons that share their name.]]

to:

[[WMG: The True Form of the 12 Heavenly Generals are their weapons that many share their name.]]
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* As Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. (even destroying their Shrine of Light.) But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha.

to:

* As Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. (even destroying their Shrine of Light.) But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha.
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* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; leading to a future rise of polytheism.

to:

* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; gods (which the servants in each shrine calls "Magnificent"); leading to a future rise of polytheism.polytheism. (And while the spells you gain are powerful, they're hardly "nuke a city" powerful.)
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* Now, in ''VideoGame/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.

to:

* Now, in ''VideoGame/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy earthly policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.
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* Now, in ''VideoGames/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.

to:

* Now, in ''VideoGames/OgreBattle'', ''VideoGame/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.
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* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; leading to a future rise of polytheism./

to:

* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; leading to a future rise of polytheism./

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Changed: 1598

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[[WMG: The Apocrypha was more than a FantasyNuke, it represented Polytheism Vs Monotheism. ]]
The official story is that Rodrick used the Apocrypha to destroy his enemies, but ended up destroying his own army with it. He also devastated the Tower of Law and the FloatingIsland of San Brosa.
-
Now, in ''VideoGames/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.
As Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. (even destroying their Shrine of Light.) But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha.
-
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; leading to a future rise of polytheism.

to:

[[WMG: The Apocrypha was more than a FantasyNuke, FantasticNuke, it represented Polytheism Vs Monotheism. ]]
The *The official story is that Rodrick used the Apocrypha to destroy his enemies, but ended up destroying his own army with it. He also devastated the Tower of Law and the FloatingIsland of San Brosa.
-
Now,
Brosa.

*Now,
in ''VideoGames/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.
As
polytheism.

*As
Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. (even destroying their Shrine of Light.) But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha. \n-\n[[https://en.

*[[https://en.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; leading to a future rise of polytheism./
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Their descriptions state that they are {{avatar}}s. Cursed Weapons / Snapdragon / Snapshot was a dark reversal of this.

to:

Their descriptions state that they are {{avatar}}s. Cursed Weapons / Snapdragon / Snapshot was a dark reversal of this.this.

[[WMG: The Apocrypha was more than a FantasyNuke, it represented Polytheism Vs Monotheism. ]]
The official story is that Rodrick used the Apocrypha to destroy his enemies, but ended up destroying his own army with it. He also devastated the Tower of Law and the FloatingIsland of San Brosa.
-
Now, in ''VideoGames/OgreBattle'', "Filaha" is the head of the Pantheon of gods, but in Lodis; "Filarh" is a monotheistic deity. For a time, it was both in Valeria. Then came the war between Dorgalua and Rodrick. Whatever their earthy policies, Dorgalua represented a form of monotheism similar to Lodis, and Rodrick represented polytheism.
As Above, so Below. Anytime men war, the gods do too, in a LayeredWorld. The [[TitleDrop Ogre Battle]]. But this time, it was god against god; and the divine and the infernal fought side by side and against each other. In the spiritual world, the angels (Ethereal Visions) pretty much got their asses kicked (and they're ''very'' bitter about this); and Rodrick devastated their home in Valeria, San Brosa. (even destroying their Shrine of Light.) But physically, humans supporting monotheism won. So they sealed the other gods power away in the shrines; the Apocrypha.
-
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha Apocrypha]] - Apocrypha is commonly applied in Christian religious contexts involving certain disagreements about biblical canonicity. In Philaha monotheism, Philaha being part of the other gods is Apocrypha. This is why when you release the shrines, what really happens is the daughters of the head of the Order of Philaha become Shamans; Oracles for the other gods; leading to a future rise of polytheism.
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* Alternatively, it was Rudlum aka Albireo for similar reasons.

to:

* Alternatively, it was Rudlum aka Albireo for similar reasons.reasons.

[[WMG: The True Form of the 12 Heavenly Generals are their weapons that share their name.]]
Their descriptions state that they are {{avatar}}s. Cursed Weapons / Snapdragon / Snapshot was a dark reversal of this.
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She says a "sage" taught her. His spirit is looking for a way to incarnate. Just taking a body like a Wicce wasn't enough for him, he wants to be able to manifest what he learned from the Underworld. (Most spirits who possess bodies in the Palace of the Dead can't leave) Punkin, the Crystal Pumpkins, and the Palace of the Dead just happened to grant her a perfect miracle. In a fit of PragmaticVillainy; he let her leave unmolested, since he learned what he wanted. (The exact method she used wouldn't work for him, but there were some esoteric information he learned.)

to:

She says a "sage" taught her. His spirit is looking for a way to incarnate. Just taking a body like a Wicce wasn't enough for him, he wants to be able to manifest what he learned from the Underworld. (Most spirits who possess bodies in the Palace of the Dead can't leave) Punkin, the Crystal Pumpkins, and the Palace of the Dead just happened to grant her a perfect miracle. In a fit of PragmaticVillainy; he let her leave unmolested, since he learned what he wanted. (The exact method she used wouldn't work for him, but there were some esoteric information he learned.gained.)
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Yeah, she says she'll wait until a party of adventurers comes and then kill and possess them; but staying incorporeal is difficult (and there's no reason to tell Denam that.) She'll "soften" one of them and wait in it while waiting; they've been stone enough centuries that the bodies are substandard; and fresh bodies are better; but each one can last a little while.

to:

Yeah, she says she'll wait until a party of adventurers comes and then kill and possess them; but staying incorporeal is difficult (and there's no reason to tell Denam that.) She'll "soften" one of them and wait in it while waiting; they've been stone enough centuries that the bodies are substandard; and fresh bodies are better; but each one can last a little while.while.

[[WMG: It was [[BigBad Rashidi]] who taught Punkin how to become human.]]
She says a "sage" taught her. His spirit is looking for a way to incarnate. Just taking a body like a Wicce wasn't enough for him, he wants to be able to manifest what he learned from the Underworld. (Most spirits who possess bodies in the Palace of the Dead can't leave) Punkin, the Crystal Pumpkins, and the Palace of the Dead just happened to grant her a perfect miracle. In a fit of PragmaticVillainy; he let her leave unmolested, since he learned what he wanted. (The exact method she used wouldn't work for him, but there were some esoteric information he learned.)
* Alternatively, it was Rudlum aka Albireo for similar reasons.
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My theory for the series was that episode I was the titular OgreBattle itself, and that the others were about how humans treated the world after they won it, with games dedicated to [[TheEmpire Lodis]]'s rise and fall amongst other countries such as Xenobia and Valeria. Andoras would have had one game about the Lodissian invasion of his homeland. Honestly, I think TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot or maybe [[WhatCouldHaveBeen they had plans with him]]. Then again though, there's also Volaq - while he didn't have much of a backstory, they really could have done more with him than they did.

to:

My theory for the series was that episode I was the titular OgreBattle ''VideoGame/OgreBattle'' itself, and that the others were about how humans treated the world after they won it, with games dedicated to [[TheEmpire Lodis]]'s rise and fall amongst other countries such as Xenobia and Valeria. Andoras would have had one game about the Lodissian invasion of his homeland. Honestly, I think TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot or maybe [[WhatCouldHaveBeen they had plans with him]]. Then again though, there's also Volaq - while he didn't have much of a backstory, they really could have done more with him than they did.
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Similar to Jowy from ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'' or Fuuma from ''Manga/X1999''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

to:

Similar to Jowy from ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'' or Fuuma from ''Manga/X1999''.''{{Manga/X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

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to:

* His quickness to leave when things went south was more a reflection of his experiences with similar things. He knows all too well how such things go; badly.


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[[WMG: The big choice has more of a role in Vyce's changes than some may think]]
The WMG above may be the cosmic reason, the down to earth ones is that when Denam makes his choice, it causes different emotions to rise up in him, channeling his hidden jealousy which came to a boil.
*Lawful Route: His feeling were tempered with righteous outrage with what his friend was doing, preventing the toxic effects of those feelings. And as he became a leader in his own right, he overcame his issues, finding in himself to help his friend once it's clear he's taking things in the right direction, a far cry from swearing to kill him early on.
*Chaos/Neutral route: Seeing Denam remain ever the paragon causes him to snap fully, mentally justifying anything he does. And over time he only gets worse as he drowns in his flaws and resentment as he attempts to bait around larger groups, until it comes back to fatally bite him. If anything, Denam coming back into the fold on the neutral made things worse as he had to see his bosses favor Denam in spite of his betrayal.
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Similar to Jowy from ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' or Fuuma from ''Manga/{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

to:

Similar to Jowy from ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'' or Fuuma from ''Manga/{{X1999}}''.''Manga/X1999''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.
Willbyr MOD

Changed: 6

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Similar to Jowy from ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

to:

Similar to Jowy from ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''.''Manga/{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.
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[[WMG: Eleanor took Shaher's place as the Lightbringer angel.]]
Once in Heaven; Philaha separated her soul from Shaher; and demoted him but had Shaher begin training Eleanor as Shaher's replacement. OgreBattle mechanics do have high alignment women who die able to turn into Angels; after all. However; this placed her in Philaha's "no political intervention" policy (the same one that prevents his angels from telling Lodis to knock it off); so she couldn't tell Lans. (Plus, "training" will take several centuries.)
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Yeah, she says she'll wait until a party of adventurers comes and then possess them; but staying incorporeal is difficult (and there's no reason to tell Denam that.) She'll "soften" one of them and wait in it while waiting; they've been stone enough centuries that they're dead; and living bodies are better; but each one can last a little while.

to:

Yeah, she says she'll wait until a party of adventurers comes and then kill and possess them; but staying incorporeal is difficult (and there's no reason to tell Denam that.) She'll "soften" one of them and wait in it while waiting; they've been stone enough centuries that they're dead; the bodies are substandard; and living fresh bodies are better; but each one can last a little while.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[WMG: The TakenForGranite Statees in the Palace of the Dead are backup bodies for Beelzebuth.]]

to:

[[WMG: The TakenForGranite Statees Statues in the Palace of the Dead are backup bodies for Beelzebuth.]]
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[[WMG: The TakenForGranite States in the Palace of the Dead are backup bodies for Beelzebuth.]]

to:

[[WMG: The TakenForGranite States Statees in the Palace of the Dead are backup bodies for Beelzebuth.]]

Added: 442

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Once in Heaven; Philaha separated her soul from Shaher; and demoted him but had him begin training her as Shaher's replacement. OgreBattle mechanics do have high alignment women who die able to turn into Angels; after all. However; this placed her in Philaha's "no political intervention" policy (the same one that prevents his angels from telling Lodis to knock it off); so she couldn't tell Lans. (Plus, "training" will take several centuries.)

to:

Once in Heaven; Philaha separated her soul from Shaher; and demoted him but had him Shaher begin training her Eleanor as Shaher's replacement. OgreBattle mechanics do have high alignment women who die able to turn into Angels; after all. However; this placed her in Philaha's "no political intervention" policy (the same one that prevents his angels from telling Lodis to knock it off); so she couldn't tell Lans. (Plus, "training" will take several centuries.))

[[WMG: The TakenForGranite States in the Palace of the Dead are backup bodies for Beelzebuth.]]
Yeah, she says she'll wait until a party of adventurers comes and then possess them; but staying incorporeal is difficult (and there's no reason to tell Denam that.) She'll "soften" one of them and wait in it while waiting; they've been stone enough centuries that they're dead; and living bodies are better; but each one can last a little while.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Similar to Jowy from ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

to:

Similar to Jowy from ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.evil.

[[WMG: Eleanor took Shaher's place as the Lightbringer angel.]]
Once in Heaven; Philaha separated her soul from Shaher; and demoted him but had him begin training her as Shaher's replacement. OgreBattle mechanics do have high alignment women who die able to turn into Angels; after all. However; this placed her in Philaha's "no political intervention" policy (the same one that prevents his angels from telling Lodis to knock it off); so she couldn't tell Lans. (Plus, "training" will take several centuries.)
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'''Warning:''' this theory uses the Knight of Lodis.

to:

'''Warning:''' this theory uses the plot of Knight of Lodis.



* He is very willing to lay low and eventually leave Valeria when things go south, not very concerned about what Lodis will think.

to:

* He is very willing to lay low and eventually [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere leave Valeria when things go south, not very concerned about what Lodis will think.]]
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Similar to Jowy from ''Suikoden2'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

to:

Similar to Jowy from ''Suikoden2'' ''{{Suikoden 2}}'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.

Added: 176

Changed: 2

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My theory for the series was that episode I was the titular OgreBattle itself, and that the others were about how humans treated the wolrd after they won it, with games dedicated to [[TheEmpire Lodis]]'s rise and fall amongst other countries such as Xenobia and Valeria. Andoras would have had one game about the Lodissian invasion of his homeland. Honestly, I think TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot or maybe [[WhatCouldHaveBeen they had plans with him]]. Then again though, there's also Volaq - while he didn't have much of a backstory, they really could have done more with him than they did.

to:

My theory for the series was that episode I was the titular OgreBattle itself, and that the others were about how humans treated the wolrd world after they won it, with games dedicated to [[TheEmpire Lodis]]'s rise and fall amongst other countries such as Xenobia and Valeria. Andoras would have had one game about the Lodissian invasion of his homeland. Honestly, I think TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot or maybe [[WhatCouldHaveBeen they had plans with him]]. Then again though, there's also Volaq - while he didn't have much of a backstory, they really could have done more with him than they did.did.

[[WMG: Vyce was destined by the Wheel to oppose Denam.]]
Similar to Jowy from ''Suikoden2'' or Fuuma from ''{{X1999}}''. He loses his sanity if the Wheel forces him to be evil.
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Therefore, I theorize that Lans Tartare's real agenda is to find Eleanor and/or Shaher. His plan was to exchange Eleanor for Catiua.

to:

Therefore, I theorize that Lans Tartare's real agenda is to find Eleanor and/or Shaher. His plan was to exchange Eleanor for Catiua.Catiua.

[[WMG: A GaidenGame or even a main title game (episode IV?) was going to be about Andoras]]

My theory for the series was that episode I was the titular OgreBattle itself, and that the others were about how humans treated the wolrd after they won it, with games dedicated to [[TheEmpire Lodis]]'s rise and fall amongst other countries such as Xenobia and Valeria. Andoras would have had one game about the Lodissian invasion of his homeland. Honestly, I think TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot or maybe [[WhatCouldHaveBeen they had plans with him]]. Then again though, there's also Volaq - while he didn't have much of a backstory, they really could have done more with him than they did.
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Added DiffLines:

'''Warning:''' this theory uses the Knight of Lodis.
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: Lans Tartare's real agenda]]
We know the following:
* He practically goes out of his way to not let Bakram dominate Valeria.
* He is very willing to lay low and eventually leave Valeria when things go south, not very concerned about what Lodis will think.
* He had what he needed to break the seal on the chaos gate, yet took in Catiua.

Therefore, I theorize that Lans Tartare's real agenda is to find Eleanor and/or Shaher. His plan was to exchange Eleanor for Catiua.

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