History WMG / Sinfest

12th Aug '17 7:55:27 PM Phys101
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[[WMG: TheDevil is preparing this massive party, and taking forever to do it. Things should be all ready, perhaps, by Christmas. (Devilmas? Satanmas?)]]
9th Jun '17 4:57:19 AM Atha
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[[WMG: Ishida will continue doing some Sisterhood strips and its detractors will keep misunderstanding the intent and ideas and twisting them to suit their own misogynistic ideals~]]
There are tons of things that this troper gets steamed about looking at this page in terms of the Sisterhood, mainly how unread most are on BASIC feminist theory... Such as that one strip with Monique and the "Spot the Creep". You guys wanna know a statistic? One in three women will be raped or sexually assaulted, most likely by someone she KNOWS. The majority of rapists will NEVER see a day in prison. Most rapes against women are committed by a friend, boyfriend, or spouse. So it's true-- you CAN'T tell by looking who will see you as less than human and ignore your "NO" in that one crucial moment. You CAN'T tell who thinks that a woman who is drunk and wearing a short skirt is asking for it....

It could be any of them.

** It's hard to twist something's intent and ideals when one of their rallying cries is litterally "KILL ALL MEN!"
*** Perhaps try reading this~ http://inkskinned.tumblr.com/post/76348980497/when-you-are-hurting-there-will-always-be-people and understand that anger is a natural reaction of the oppressed. Has the Sisterhood actually tried to, you know, kill men? Are we given any clue that their Grand Master Plan is anything other than the equal treatment and representation of women and the dissolution of the gender binary?
*** Oh, a Tumblr link. Nah, I'm good.
*** There is a difference between "anger of the oppressed" and "advocating murder"! It's hard to be sympathetic to a group who even attacks Buddah, one of the most innocent and benevolent characters in the series, on sight! And we have time after time again seen that they don't care about getting men and women to live together in equality and peace, something that most people would support. At least not through methods that doesn't make them look like sociopaths and vandals. At best they outright force their ideals onto others instead of simply carrying out peaceful protests in the name of mutual love and understanding. At worst (wich is almost all the time), the reprogram machines to assault men or they pull out katanas against any male who simply gives them a kind greeting. And about the justification of "it could be any of them, so let the Sisterhood be mean towards men just to be safe" is like saying that "any Arab could be a terrorist, so let's treat them all like threats". Instead of respectfully informing and discussing with people of what's wrong with oppression of gender and the dangers of sexism, they instead brush of every single man they see as a potential rapist, wifebeater, pervert etc. By the way: what kind of excuse is "they haven't tried to kill men yet"? Not only HAVE they tried to do so (read about the Hacked Fembots incident), but even if they haven't, you can't justify constant and repeated death threats with "Oh, I only SAID I was going to murder anyone with a penis. It's not like I would actually do it". No court would ever buy that excuse considering how often the Sisterhood has made such claims. But let's get to the comment on Tats continuing his Sisterhood plot for years to come. I agree, he will keep doing this as long as people will twist his ideals...the problem is that he adamantly belives that ANYONE who dissagrees with him, critisises him or makes fun of him and his work are misogynists who are trying to twist his ideals. And considering how he has done everything in his power to drive away and directly insult his past and now reasonably angry fanbase, It is safe to say that he will keep on with the Sisterhood plot for a loooooooooooong time.
*** Boy that sure is a lot of stretching. First of all, the only member of the sisterhood that has displayed any desire to harm any male is the nameless purple sister, whom is clearly a child and thus would not be as well-versed in most ideals shared by her peers. Her actions and her thoughts do not reflect the rest of the Sisterhood, especially considering the kindness Nana - apparently the founder - has shown characters like Slick and Li'l Evil, Clio has saved Squig's life when it would be so easy to let him die and has straight-up hacked the Patriarchy just to say that its okay for guys to cry as well as spare the life of a man actually trying to murder her with an axe, and Xanthe who actually sort of cares for Slick. Secondly, not a single character that is affiliated with the Sisterhood has attacked Buddha or even suggested interest in attacking Buddha. In fact, the only character affiliated with the Sisterhood that has so much as interacted with Buddha is said nameless purple sister, and she did not attack him. Rather, when she noticed his presence, she took a defensive position. She would have attacked if she felt threatened, but, well, considering the fact she didn't attack him, and he turned her staff into flowers, she was not threatened. She also passed the opportunity to attack Squig, who she had interacted with twice. Both times she mostly ignored him. Thirdly, I have literally no effing idea where people get the interpretation that Clio's hacking of the fembot factory meant that she wanted the fembots to attack the workers. The only thing Clio did was hack the factory so instead of being bombarded with how KIND and CARING their male masters are and would be, they would see the crimes they have committed in history. How they chose to react after this was not at all Clio's doing. It was a lack of foresight, yes, and could have had disastrous results had they not been shut down, but you're demonizing the Sisterhood just for the sake of demonizing them. Just say you don't like how little characterization they're given despite how frequent their appearances are, and their spotlight stealing tendencies and effing get over it.
*** They reprogrammed an entire factory of Fembots that could have saved real women from sex trafficking and made it so all the Fembots attacked the factory workers. And then there is the whole Reality Zone where oppression doesn't seem to exist. I could very be well wrong, maybe he's just being inconsistent.
*** These Fembots are obviously capable of real emotions. We even have seen one of them [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-06-30 show fear of death]]. They may be robots, but from a moral point of view, they ''are'' "real women".
*** How exactly does this justifies brainwashing them into being weapons for Sisterhood, all while fully aware that almost every one of those fembots will be horribly killed? Instead of, you know, actually saving them?
* Thank you! I was reading this whole page just to hear someone say this. Contrary to all the guesses made elsewhere in this page desperately hoping against hope that the Sisterhood turns out to be some sort of sham, the patriarchy is fake, Xanthe is the Devil, ad nauseam, ''my'' WMG is that the author has genuinely developed a self awareness of his own misogyny and biases, and is appalled by the way he had treated women both in his life and his comic. The Sisterhood plots represent an attempt to confront that, pulling no punches against himself, his art or his audience. He was clumsy, particularly at first when he was having to make fundamental changes to the comic itself, and he's still learning about feminism, but he's now doing great work and I've started reading again having dropped the comic many years ago.
* Theres a complete analysis of the webcomics demise right here, http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Sinfest . the stupidest thing about Ishida is he thinks all men are evil and cant be feminists what does that make him?
** This analysis is only ''complete'' in the sense that it ''completely'' misses the point of most of the strips it discusses. It's most obvious with the allegedly "pro-life" strip. Also, you're building a straw man. Ishida clearly does ''not'' think that all men are evil.
*** If that's truly the case, explain why there are ZERO sympathetic unnamed male characters. Explain why the sympathetic males seemed to basically disappear from the strip around the time the Sisterhood showed up.
*** No sympathetic male characters? Are we reading the same comic strip? What about Squigley or Criminy, who have both appeared recently? Or Lil'Evil, who has become much more sympathetic after his memory loss and is a constant part of the current arc. And what "unnamed male characters" do you mean? There aren't even that many unnamed characters left ''at all''. Ishida is not going to introduce a new unnamed male character every week just to please people like you - and even if he were, you probably wouldn't even realize it, given your extent of tunnel vision. It's not that he presents all males negatively, it is that you are pissed that he has taken up the issue of feminism at all. Or maybe it's because he's about to turn Slick into a bad guy and some readers are so in love with him that they don't see anything else any more.
*** Squigly? He consistently used as a idiot strawman to be shown that the Sisterhood is right. Criminy? He's Tatsuya's Golden Boy, so we can't have Him be portrayed negatively in anyway. He's basically a GaryStu Lil'Evil? It took him Losing His Memory to become sympathetic. As for the Unnamed Male characters? Every time a Male even Talks to a woman it's portrayed negatively. But when a woman does something, she's portrayed as a complete Saint for doing it. Even when she attacks a man for simply Talking to her.
*** Criminy is a Ishida's Golden Boy, but he still presents all male characters negatively? It's stunning how you fail to see your own contradictions. I'm beginning to think you only ignore examples like Criminy and others ''because they don't comply to your standard of masculinity''. But that's precisely Ishida's point. You say there are no sympathetic male characters. I say there is at least one: Criminy. You say ''you'' don't like him, but then you fail to say what kind of character it is that you'd want to see in the comic. I'm beginning to think you just have a problem with Sinfest's feminist orientation ''as such''.
*** My Issue with the Criminy is the same with the Sisterhood. Neither of them Have FLAWS. It would be one thing if the Sisterhood characters and Criminy Actually had points when they were portrayed as Being in the Wrong. But NOPE! The Sisterhood are Shining Demi-Goddesses Incapable of Ever being Portrayed Negatively in their Actions At All. NAME ONE Point since their Introduction that Sisterhood as actually Been Called Out on their actions and it stuck. Or Better Name ONE POINT where they FAILED at something, ANYTHING!? What's that? You CAN'T I don't hate them because they are Feminists. I HATE THE SISTERHOOD BECAUSE THEY ARE effing MARY SUES WHO CAN DO NO WRONG and Anytime Someone Even Talks about them Negatively, they automatically become the Bad Guy. Not Even GOD was safe from them! The effing CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE has to Bend Over Backwards To please them! And the same holds true with Criminy. If he had any flaws beyond "He's Shy!" I wouldn't be bothered by Him At All! This is Basic. Writing. Make Your characters Feel Like PEOPLE! Not Cardboard Cutouts to prop your views!
*** Once again you fail to reflect on your own premises. If a male character is flawed somehow (like Squigley or Lil'Evil), you just declare him unsympathetic. If he is not flawed enough (like Criminy, apparently), you just declare him a Mary Sue. Within these premises, nothing Ishida does could ever please you, because your criteria contradict each other. You have constructed a Double Bind, and my advice to Ishida at this point would be to not even bother with trying to please you in this respect. Also, about the Sisterhood: I understand your concern, but so far, there simply have not been any convincing arguments against the Sisterhood's point of view, just misunderstandings and insults from the other side. And this includes the arguments of readers I've read so far. So you might consider the possibility that Ishida does not include convincing criticism of the Sisterhood because there simply is none so far to begin with. (Actually, there is one point of criticism that can be justly made: The Sisterhood fails to get their message across because they come over as too preachy. In other words, they really lack people skills. They should add someone to their team who has some experience in that field. Maybe Monique or Fuchsia. Or, well, Criminy.)
*** Maybe I should have added this in my previous point, but my issue with the treatment of the Male Characters at this point boils down to this. With the exception of Criminy (who I already have said my piece) and Lil'E (who needed to have his entire personality stripped away to become sympathetic), they went the other extreme. They are nothing BUT their Flaws. Before they had good points and depth. Now, they are just used as a verbal, sometimes literal punching bag. That's my issue with Slick and Squigley. They just seem to only exist now to show "This is WRONG! This is BAD!" It would be One thing if it was the Devil, seeing as we're not Supposed to like him. But Slick and Squigley were main protagonists since the beginning. As for the Sisterhood's Lack of People Skills, it would be one thing if this was portrayed as a problem in story, but we're supposed to Side With Them, Not Against Them.
*** Okay, now I see why you're pissed. I think it's really about Slick. Some of the people who follow Sinfest for years are a bit pissed that Ishida is turning him into a bad guy, and I can understand that. I think some things in his character arc have always pointed to such a possibility though. As for Squigley, I think it's much more ambiguous than you claim it is. I think the point is that he is really trying to overcome his issues, but they're still too big right now, so he's stuck in his development. It's even a little bit tragic. However, Slick's change might trigger some further character development for Squigley - in one direction or another. - As for the Sisterhood, I think this is simply a case of GoodIsNotNice (and a nice contrast to the Devil's FauxAffablyEvil VillainWithGoodPublicity by the way).
** Personally, I find kind of faulty the fact that the comics repeatedly portrayed regular mortals calling out the shit on powerful demons, Satan, Jesus, Buddha and the God. Then the Sisterhood appeared and so far not a single person in-universe made any attempt to speak out that they are misogynist, genocidal, terrorist and hypocritical organization that doesn't care about collateral damage, committed several murder attempts and at least one actual murder. With powerful explosive. It happened in a deserted area, but with any less luck there would be more civilian casualties. Satan can't do anything with Sisterhood, they scare away Buddha, Jesus is all but forgotten and apparently, the God can't play pranks on them and wants their approval. If it isn't MarySue symptoms at their worst, I don't know what is.
* And the Award for "Best Example of a FalseDichotomy" goes to...
* http://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/76494087755/all-right-lets-take-it-from-the-top-this-isnt - as detailed here, ''this is not an actual theory for this comic'', just a "bully pulpit".
17th Apr '17 5:19:53 PM Gouken20xx
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** COUNTER-Jossed! Recent strips since the Reality Wall went up have Fyoosh actively making efforts to last as long as possible in the Reality Zone, meaning this WMG is not dead!
10th Jan '17 5:59:13 PM AsherTye
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[[WMG: Vainglorious is an aspect of Lil'E.]]
* Vainglorious is a manifestation of the aspects of his personality Lil'E lost when he accidently doused himself with Lethe water. Think about it, he fanboys over realizing Big D knows him and thinks he's clever, he does not take criticism well, and most of his acts of evil onscreen have been more exhibitionist than effective. It obvious he's what Lil'E would have been had he been a full-blooded demon. Without the influence of Lil'E's human side, Vainglorious can access his demonic powers more easily, explaining his higher power level. Unfortunately, or fortunately, with Lil'E now beginning to show power, Vainglorious will begin to lose some of his, necessitating a show down between the two.
12th Dec '16 10:04:34 PM Phys101
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* Fortunately [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2016-12-08 not]]. However, it appears that...

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* Fortunately [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2016-12-08 not]]. [[spoiler:Lady Liberty survived and is intact]]. However, it appears that...
12th Dec '16 10:01:37 PM Phys101
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* Fortunately [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2016-12-08 not]]. However, it appears that...

[[WMG: Tats, caught up in his Jail arc, [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2016-12-13 almost forgot about the end of year MMXVI]].]]
30th Nov '16 9:42:02 PM Phys101
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[[WMG: Lady Liberty will die [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2016-12-01 from the events in the Jail arc]]. But then someone will resurrect her, but she'll [[CameBackWrong come back wrong]].]]
17th Nov '16 12:11:29 AM Destreux
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** Also, considering that Lily can at least do "pomfs" now, maybe Fuschia can [[BigaBrotherMentor teach him how to do an actual bomf]] since she has been bomfing people longer than Lily and Tange have been.

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** Also, considering that Lily can at least do "pomfs" now, maybe Fuschia can [[BigaBrotherMentor [[BigBrotherMentor teach him how to do an actual bomf]] since she has been bomfing people longer than Lily and Tange have been.
16th Nov '16 2:07:50 PM Destreux
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** Also, considering that Lily can at least do "pomfs" now, maybe Fuschia can teach him how to do an actual bomf since she has been bomfing people longer than Lily and Tange have been.

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** Also, considering that Lily can at least do "pomfs" now, maybe Fuschia can [[BigaBrotherMentor teach him how to do an actual bomf bomf]] since she has been bomfing people longer than Lily and Tange have been.
16th Nov '16 2:05:00 PM Destreux
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[[WMG: Fuschia will eventually become some sort of ParentalSubstitute or a [[CoolBigSis Big Sis]][[BigSisterInstinct ter figure]] towards Lily and Tange]]

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[[WMG: Fuschia will eventually become some sort of ParentalSubstitute or a [[CoolBigSis Big Sis]][[BigSisterInstinct ter sister figure]] towards Lily and Tange]]




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** Also, considering that Lily can at least do "pomfs" now, maybe Fuschia can teach him how to do an actual bomf since she has been bomfing people longer than Lily and Tange have been.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.Sinfest