History WMG / Ib

27th Sep '15 10:44:11 AM ichigoare
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* By that logic, a 90-year-old would have '''''[[MadeOfIron 45 petals]]'''''. I can't envision a 90-year-old shrugging off [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown the sort of beating]] it would take to lose 10 petals, let alone 40.
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* By that logic, a 90-year-old would have '''''[[MadeOfIron 45 petals]]'''''. I can't envision a 90-year-old shrugging off [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown the sort of beating]] it would take to lose 10 petals, let alone 40.40. ** I agree with the above comment. The petals likely don't correspond to age at all. Maybe they're related to body size; Gary could pretty easily be twice as big as Ib (though the sprites make it a bit hard to tell).
27th Sep '15 10:40:20 AM ichigoare
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** Actually, Japan's policies might not matter at all. None of the characters in the game have Japanese names, and it's more likely that the game takes place in a different country with a different driving age altogether.
1st Sep '15 6:37:22 PM Luigifan
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As good a guess as any.
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As good a guess as any.any. * By that logic, a 90-year-old would have '''''[[MadeOfIron 45 petals]]'''''. I can't envision a 90-year-old shrugging off [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown the sort of beating]] it would take to lose 10 petals, let alone 40.
1st Sep '15 6:33:23 PM Luigifan
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* In the gameplay there are sections of text on a wall, presumably written by Mary, inviting Ib to be with her in a world with no adults. Now, at first glance that may seem to foreshadow what will likely happen to Garry- Mary seems to hate adults in general, and Garry being one would explain why she tries to get rid of him (and succeeds in most cases)- but since she herself brought Ib and Garry into the twisted gallery world, it would make no sense for Marry to bring in an adult. She must want to get rid of Garry not because of his age, but because he's a rival for Ib's attention and affections. ** Though, to be fair, Mary does ask Ib if Garry is her father- but since she doesn't seem to know much about real humans in general, she may well be ignorant and just THINK Garry's an adult, or perhaps teens and adults are basically the same in her eyes.
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* In the gameplay there are sections of text on a wall, presumably written by Mary, inviting Ib to be with her in a world with no adults. Now, at first glance that may seem to foreshadow what will likely happen to Garry- Garry -- Mary seems to hate adults in general, and Garry being one would explain why she tries to get rid of him (and succeeds in most cases)- cases) -- but since she herself brought Ib and Garry into the twisted gallery world, it would make no sense for Marry Mary to bring in an adult. She must want to get rid of Garry not because of his age, but because he's a rival for Ib's attention and affections. ** Though, to be fair, Mary does ask Ib if Garry is her father- father -- but since she doesn't seem to know much about real humans in general, she may well be ignorant and just THINK Garry's an adult, or perhaps teens and adults are basically the same in her eyes.

There are a few things in her situation similar to that of the dolls. She was [[ParentalAbandonment left by her father as a painting when he died]], she has her own world all to herself in the gallery, and she was quite willing to kill Garry for one person (As the dolls were supposed to kill each other for their father).
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There are a few things in her situation similar to that of the dolls. She was [[ParentalAbandonment left by her father as a painting when he died]], she has her own world all to herself in the gallery, and she was quite willing to kill Garry for one person (As (as the dolls were supposed to kill each other for their father).

There is a painting of Ib's parents in the phantom art gallery called "Couple." Garry saw it alongside Ib and commented on how Ib resembled them quite a bit, so it couldn't have been one of Ib's conjured hallucinations in her distressed mind. Therefore, it is likely that Guertena met Ib's parents at some point in the past before he died. Guertena's Lady portraits depict Guertena's suitors, and the Lady in Red portraits in particular depict Ib's mother. The Lady in Red very closely resembles Ib's mother, with the same hair and eye color. Red eyes themselves are not exactly common, so who else could those portraits depict? (See the entry for Identical Strangers in the main page)
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There is a painting of Ib's parents in the phantom art gallery called "Couple." Garry saw it alongside Ib and commented on how Ib resembled them quite a bit, so it couldn't have been one of Ib's conjured hallucinations in her distressed mind. Therefore, it is likely that Guertena met Ib's parents at some point in the past before he died. Guertena's Lady portraits depict Guertena's suitors, and the Lady in Red portraits in particular depict Ib's mother. The Lady in Red very closely resembles Ib's mother, with the same hair and eye color. Red eyes themselves are not exactly common, so who else could those portraits depict? (See the entry for Identical Strangers in the main page) page.)

In the "Forgotten Portrait" ending, we understand what happens if a real person ends up dying inside the gallery without a person to replace them: they become a painting. However, we all see that both Ib and her family have paintings of them inside the gallery, and as people, they're obviously still alive. In one iteration of the ending of "Ib All Alone" where Garry dies, Ib sees another Garry that is perfectly fine, meaning just because someone died in the gallery doesn't mean that they cannot come back to life as a painting. This is also supported that Ib's mother does the very same in another variation of "Ib All Alone," if Garry lives. We also can see that it's possible for a painting to leave the gallery by having two real people enter the gallery and leaving with one of them, while killing the other, which is explained with both the "Together Forever" ending and the "Painting's Demise" ending. And in the gallery, there are paintings of Ib (refer to the "sinister painting" in the Hide-and-Seek game) and her parents (refer to the "Couple" painting). By this logic, it can even be that Mary was just the most recent victim, since she was considered to be the last painting drawn by Guertena, but there wasn't any sign of a "Forgotten Portrait" being drawn afterwards.
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In the "Forgotten Portrait" ending, we understand what happens if a real person ends up dying inside the gallery without a person to replace them: they become a painting. However, we all see that both Ib and her family have paintings of them inside the gallery, and as people, they're obviously still alive. In one iteration of the ending of "Ib All Alone" where Garry dies, Ib sees another Garry that is perfectly fine, meaning just because someone died in the gallery doesn't mean that they cannot come back to life as a painting. This is also supported that Ib's mother does the very same in another variation of "Ib All Alone," if Garry lives. We also can see that it's possible for a painting to leave the gallery by having two real people enter the gallery and leaving with one of them, while killing the other, which is explained with both the "Together Forever" ending and the "Painting's Demise" ending. And in the gallery, there are paintings of Ib (refer to the "sinister painting" in the Hide-and-Seek game) and her parents (refer to the "Couple" painting). By this logic, it can even be that Mary was just the most recent victim, since she was considered to be the last painting drawn by Guertena, but there wasn't any sign of a "Forgotten Portrait" being drawn afterwards.

In short, the dynamic between the game's main trio may be a recreation of the dynamic that led to the gallery's very creation. As mentioned above, it's implied that there's a link between Guertena and Ib's parents. The exact nature of this link is never directly expressed or explored in the game, which makes this some wild guesswork indeed. Still, if the Lady in Red is indeed Ib's mom, and this lady was indeed Guertena's former lover, it might be the case that Guertena and Ib’s mom were initially to be wed but some unknown event soured the engagement (perhaps being referenced by the sad and ringless bride and groom). Guertena may have pined obsessively for Ib's mom but she ultimately chose Ib's dad, causing Guertena to harbor a sort of love-hate relationship toward her while developing a true hatred of the dad, mirroring how Mary feels toward Ib and Garry respectively. He then spent the rest of his life in a sort of bitter isolation pouring his entire life entire his work while scorning the reality around him (notice how he almost always refuses to work with real people, preferring his own imagination and memory instead). The remnants of Guertena may live on as the spirit of the gallery, and when Ib entered he was immediately drawn to her, part of him fond of her as the embodiment of the woman he once loved as he had known her and so wanted to bring her near, while the other part of him hated her as the woman who left him and so wanted to punish her. Thus he drew her into his world. Gary was drawn in possibly because he resembled a younger version of Ib’s dad, being the soft and sensitive sort of man that had won Ib’s mom’s affections. The gallery seemed quite keen to torture and punish him, and this may explain that as the gallery is the “World of Guertena.” Bring Mary into the mix as the embodiment of Guertena’s loneliness, curiosity, and bitterness and you have a repetition of the dynamic that had played out previously in the real world now playing again in the remnants of Guertena’s soul. Mary, like Guertena, wants to love and be close to Ib even though Ib doesn’t necessarily feel the same way, and she bears an irrational hatred of Garry as a rival for Ib’s affection, wishing she could just kill him. In her mind, if she could just do that then she could be happy, she could have Ib and the life she always wanted, mirroring Guertena’s wish to have Ib’s mom and the life he always desired. It’s possible that this is why the gallery let’s Mary leave when she does so with Ib: it’s not about exchanges, but instead about Guertena being happy that Mary was able to do what he was not and so warping reality to give Mary her desired life as Ib’s sister.
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In short, the dynamic between the game's main trio may be a recreation of the dynamic that led to the gallery's very creation. As mentioned above, it's implied that there's a link between Guertena and Ib's parents. The exact nature of this link is never directly expressed or explored in the game, which makes this some wild guesswork indeed. Still, if the Lady in Red is indeed Ib's mom, and this lady was indeed Guertena's former lover, it might be the case that Guertena and Ib’s mom were initially to be wed but some unknown event soured the engagement (perhaps being referenced by the sad and ringless bride and groom). Guertena may have pined obsessively for Ib's mom but she ultimately chose Ib's dad, causing Guertena to harbor a sort of love-hate relationship toward her while developing a true hatred of the dad, mirroring how Mary feels toward Ib and Garry respectively. He then spent the rest of his life in a sort of bitter isolation isolation, pouring his entire life entire into his work while scorning the reality around him (notice how he almost always refuses to work with real people, preferring his own imagination and memory instead). The remnants of Guertena may live on as the spirit of the gallery, and when Ib entered entered, he was immediately drawn to her, part of him fond of her as the embodiment of the woman he once loved as he had known her and so wanted to bring her near, while the other part of him hated her as the woman who left him and so wanted to punish her. Thus he drew her into his world. Gary Garry was drawn in possibly because he resembled a younger version of Ib’s dad, being the soft and sensitive sort of man that had won Ib’s mom’s affections. The gallery seemed quite keen to torture and punish him, and this may explain that as the gallery is the “World of Guertena.” Bring Mary into the mix as the embodiment of Guertena’s loneliness, curiosity, and bitterness and you have a repetition of the dynamic that had played out previously in the real world now playing again in the remnants of Guertena’s soul. Mary, like Guertena, wants to love and be close to Ib even though Ib doesn’t necessarily feel the same way, and she bears an irrational hatred of Garry as a rival for Ib’s affection, wishing she could just kill him. In her mind, if she could just do that that, then she could be happy, happy; she could have Ib and the life she always wanted, mirroring Guertena’s wish to have Ib’s mom and the life he always desired. It’s possible that this is why the gallery let’s lets Mary leave when she does so with Ib: it’s not about exchanges, but instead about Guertena being happy that Mary was able to do what he was not and so warping reality to give Mary her desired life as Ib’s sister.


A Witch manifested inside the museum while Ib and Garry were in it, and Ib and Garry were the unlucky ones to stumble into the barrier. The museum being a barrier would certainly explain the bizarre, incoherent, and disturbing scenery. All of the killer artwork would be the Witch's familiars. Furthermore, in Madoka Magica there was a Witch with an art theme (Izabel). It took on the form of the Arc de Triomphe and had the ability to talk. Therefore it's not a huge stretch to say that a Witch could take the form of a painting depicting [[spoiler: an extremely lifelike yet imaginary girl named "Mary"]].
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A Witch manifested inside the museum while Ib and Garry were in it, and Ib and Garry were the unlucky ones to stumble into the barrier. The museum being a barrier would certainly explain the bizarre, incoherent, and disturbing scenery. All of the killer artwork would be the Witch's familiars. Furthermore, in Madoka Magica there was a Witch with an art theme (Izabel). It took on the form of the Arc de Triomphe and had the ability to talk. Therefore it's not a huge stretch to say that a Witch could take the form of a painting depicting [[spoiler: an [[spoiler:an extremely lifelike yet imaginary girl named "Mary"]].

The world itself is actually a manifestation of Mary's psyche. There are several references to this. Firstly, there are molestation references present. Hands reach out from the wall and grope at the player characters. There is one door that asks you to go into its mouth -- another mouth on the wall wants to "eat your flower". In fact, the game's HP gauges are flowers -- symbols typically associated with virginity, purity, and female coming of age. There are also signs that Mary has developed body image issues from the encounter with Gueterna, such as the deformed mannequins and doll heads which serve an antagonistic role in the game. The girls that crawl out of paintings could be seen as a literal cry for help-an echo of her ultimate goal of leaving Gueterna in the painting world. Not to mention the dolls everywhere. In fact, there are very few parts of the world that one would think were created by a grown man. The entirety of the alternate gallery looks almost completely like the work of a very disturbed young girl.
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The world itself is actually a manifestation of Mary's psyche. There are several references to this. Firstly, there are molestation references present. Hands reach out from the wall and grope at the player characters. There is one door that asks you to go into its mouth -- another mouth on the wall wants to "eat your flower". In fact, the game's HP gauges are flowers -- symbols typically associated with virginity, purity, and female coming of age. There are also signs that Mary has developed body image issues from the encounter with Gueterna, such as the deformed mannequins and doll heads which serve an antagonistic role in the game. The girls that crawl out of paintings could be seen as a literal cry for help-an help -- an echo of her ultimate goal of leaving Gueterna in the painting world. Not to mention the dolls everywhere. In fact, there are very few parts of the world that one would think were created by a grown man. The entirety of the alternate gallery looks almost completely like the work of a very disturbed young girl.

The world itself is actually a manifestation of Mary's psyche. There are several references to this. Firstly, there are molestation references present. Hands reach out from the wall and grope at the player characters. There is one door that asks you to go into its mouth -- another mouth on the wall wants to "eat your flower". In fact, the game's HP gauges are flowers -- symbols typically associated with virginity, purity, and female coming of age. There are also signs that Mary has developed body image issues from the encounter with Gueterna, such as the deformed mannequins and doll heads which serve an antagonistic role in the game. The girls that crawl out of paintings could be seen as a literal cry for help-an echo of her ultimate goal of leaving Gueterna in the painting world. Not to mention the dolls everywhere. In fact, there are very few parts of the world that one would think were created by a grown man. The entirety of the alternate gallery looks almost completely like the work of a very disturbed young girl.

This is an idea I've been nursing for a while, I even posted about it on tumblr a few times. Garry's bedraggled appearance is a big sign; also, it always stuck out to me that Garry ate "a" macaroon and not "some". If you know what macaroons are, like little cookie things, then you'd know that one does not simply eat one macaroon. So I'm thinking someone gave him one? Where I live, free art galleries and the like are common places for the homeless to hang around in during the winter, since they can stand in the heat for a few hours that way. * The main problems of this, is that Garry's clothing is how some people wear stuff like that (torn jeans and the like). It also seems that Garry uses his lighter a lot, which could mean he's a smoker, which isn't a cheap hobby (unless he uses it to light fires in general). Finally, Garry seems educated and coherent (many hobos are mentally ill or have some form of disability). His feminine appearance makes him look well kept (or clean at least) and his hair seems to be dyed, which is the kind of thing a hobo wouldn't bother or couldn't afford to pay for.
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This is an idea I've been nursing for a while, while; I even posted about it on tumblr a few times. Garry's bedraggled appearance is a big sign; also, it always stuck out to me that Garry ate "a" macaroon and not "some". If you know what macaroons are, like little cookie things, then you'd know that one does not simply eat one macaroon. So I'm thinking someone gave him one? Where I live, free art galleries and the like are common places for the homeless to hang around in during the winter, since they can stand in the heat for a few hours that way. * The main problems of this, this is that Garry's clothing is how some people wear stuff like that (torn jeans and the like). It also seems that Garry uses his lighter a lot, which could mean he's a smoker, which isn't a cheap hobby (unless he uses it to light fires in general). Finally, Garry seems educated and coherent (many hobos are mentally ill or have some form of disability). His feminine appearance makes him look well kept well-kept (or clean at least) and his hair seems to be dyed, which is the kind of thing a hobo wouldn't bother or couldn't afford to pay for.

In the "Together Forever" ending, Mary's plan works perfectly and she escapes into the real world to live with Ib and her family, while in "Painting's Demise" it is made very clear that something's gone wrong. Both endings have Mary take the place of at least one person which is all that we're told is needed for Mary to get out. So what's the difference?
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In the "Together Forever" ending, Mary's plan works perfectly and she escapes into the real world to live with Ib and her family, while in "Painting's Demise" it is made very clear that something's gone wrong. Both endings have Mary take the place of at least one person person, which is all that we're told is needed for Mary to get out. So what's the difference?

Putting pieces of his soul into the paintings made him unable to move on after death. Eventually, what remained of him went mad (he could be jealous of the outside world like Mary, or just suffering from the fact that most of his works are based off of bad memories) and began attacking people who entered the haunted gallery. He's the one leaving certain cryptic messages, and in [[spoiler: Mary's bad ending, he kills her rather than let his last work escape]].
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Putting pieces of his soul into the paintings made him unable to move on after death. Eventually, what remained of him went mad (he could be jealous of the outside world like Mary, or just suffering from the fact that most of his works are based off of bad memories) and began attacking people who entered the haunted gallery. He's the one leaving certain cryptic messages, and in [[spoiler: Mary's [[spoiler:Mary's bad ending, he kills her rather than let his last work escape]].

As is hinted at in the ''Forgotten Portray'' Ending, dieing in the gallery world seems to make a painting of you appear in the real world gallery. Now in the bad ending where Mary decides to stay so she can be together forever with Ib and Garry she holds a welcoming party for the both of them..which seemingly involves giving their roses to the Ladies in Red/Blue thereby killing them. This seems to be more than pure insanity. What if she wants to make them into fellow paintings?
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As is hinted at in the ''Forgotten Portray'' Portrait'' Ending, dieing dying in the gallery world seems to make a painting of you appear in the real world gallery. Now Now, in the bad ending where Mary decides to stay so she can be together forever with Ib and Garry Garry, she holds a welcoming party for the both of them..them... which seemingly involves giving their roses to the Ladies in Red/Blue Red/Blue, thereby killing them. This seems to be more than pure insanity. What if she wants to make them into fellow paintings? paintings?

- The fake!Garry you meet could simply be painting!Garry come to make Ib stay in the Gallery. Granted it could be another illusion like Ib's mother. But unlike with Ib's mother where we clearly get to see Ib following nothing, the same cannot be said for the Garry apparation. - In the ''Together Forever'' ending we do not get to see Garry's painting even though he died in the Gallery, but in this case Mary took his place in the real world, while Garry took hers in the Gallery. Marys painting is not a part of the exhibition, so this could mean that the Forgotten Portrait is wherever hers was kept. - The whole party is meant to be a Welcoming Party for Garry and Ib aka the moment where they permanently become a part of Guertenas Art Gallery.
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- The fake!Garry you meet could simply be painting!Garry come to make Ib stay in the Gallery. Granted Granted, it could be another illusion like Ib's mother. But unlike with Ib's mother mother, where we clearly get to see Ib following nothing, the same cannot be said for the Garry apparation. - In the ''Together Forever'' ending ending, we do not get to see Garry's painting even though he died in the Gallery, but in this case Mary took his place in the real world, while Garry took hers in the Gallery. Marys Mary's painting is not a part of the exhibition, so this could mean that the Forgotten Portrait is wherever hers was kept. - The whole party is meant to be a Welcoming Party for Garry and Ib Ib, aka the moment where they permanently become a part of Guertenas Guertena's Art Gallery.
10th Aug '15 7:58:53 AM Yahya
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[[WMG: The blue dolls are the people that died in the Dark Gallery.]] Under the sun in the Sketchbook area, Garry may say something to the effect of: "Are those blue dolls Guertena's works? I get the feeling they're something else..."
26th Jul '15 10:56:05 AM ichigoare
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[[WMG: Garry is not an adult; he's maybe a high school junior at most.]] While people seem to think Garry is a young adult, most of the evidence given indicates that he's likely a minor, probably 16 at most. *In the gameplay there are sections of text on a wall, presumably written by Mary, inviting Ib to be with her in a world with no adults. Now, at first glance that may seem to foreshadow what will likely happen to Garry- Mary seems to hate adults in general, and Garry being one would explain why she tries to get rid of him (and succeeds in most cases)- but since she herself brought Ib and Garry into the twisted gallery world, it would make no sense for Marry to bring in an adult. She must want to get rid of Garry not because of his age, but because he's a rival for Ib's attention and affections. **Though, to be fair, Mary does ask Ib if Garry is her father- but since she doesn't seem to know much about real humans in general, she may well be ignorant and just THINK Garry's an adult, or perhaps teens and adults are basically the same in her eyes. *Garry also doesn't quite seem mature enough to be a grown-up. He's certainly more mature than the children, but his relationship with Ib isn't really fatherly as much as it is brotherly. *If he's 16 or so, he wouldn't be an adult, but he would be able to get to an art gallery on his own; he wouldn't be old enough to drive (by Japanese standards), but if he lived close enough he could easily have walked there himself. *Dyeing one's hair purple seems more like something a high school student would do than an adult. *And since he does seem to care about fashion and aesthetics to a degree, maybe he's just a high school art student (perhaps in I.B. art classes; this troper takes one and we're required to visit an art gallery a certain number of times per term. Plus, him taking IB classes and being in the game Ib would just be hilarious).
3rd May '15 10:11:40 PM ShinyTsukkomi
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[[WMG: Ib is a young [[YumeNikki Madotsuki]].]]
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[[WMG: Ib is a young [[YumeNikki [[VideoGame/YumeNikki Madotsuki]].]]

* Madotsuki actually means "window" in one interpretation, whereas Ib is basically the same as "Eve" (again, in one interpretation). It's likely Madotsuki is a title she's given in YumeNikki since there's no dialog to have anyone address her as such, the same as her name being PC. So, this WMG could totally work.
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* Madotsuki actually means "window" in one interpretation, whereas Ib is basically the same as "Eve" (again, in one interpretation). It's likely Madotsuki is a title she's given in YumeNikki ''VideoGame/YumeNikki'' since there's no dialog to have anyone address her as such, the same as her name being PC. So, this WMG could totally work.
19th Apr '15 1:13:31 PM Reymma
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The game mentions that most of Gueterna's work is not based on real people, excluding works such as the juggler one. The game points out that Mary is not based on a real person, and Garry can become one of the paintings in the gallery in one ending and be forgotten. Who's to say that other paintings aren't like them, if reality can just rewrite itself to conform according to who does and doesn't escape the gallery? It's not as though people who die there will be remembered, and thus none of their paintings are not based on a real person.
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The game mentions that most of Gueterna's work is not based on real people, excluding works such as the juggler one. The game points out that Mary is not based on a real person, and Garry can become one of the paintings in the gallery in one ending and be forgotten. Who's to say that other paintings aren't like them, if reality can just rewrite itself to conform according to who does and doesn't escape the gallery? It's not as though people who die there will be remembered, and thus for the outside world none of their paintings are not or based on a real any known person.
14th Jan '15 8:51:21 PM Bakainkorp
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[[WMG: Ib's and her family died inside the gallery before, and Mary wasn't always a painting.]]
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[[WMG: Ib's Ib and her family died inside the gallery before, and Mary wasn't always a painting.]]
14th Jan '15 8:51:02 PM Bakainkorp
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Added another WMG
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[[WMG: Ib's and her family died inside the gallery before, and Mary wasn't always a painting.]] In the "Forgotten Portrait" ending, we understand what happens if a real person ends up dying inside the gallery without a person to replace them: they become a painting. However, we all see that both Ib and her family have paintings of them inside the gallery, and as people, they're obviously still alive. In one iteration of the ending of "Ib All Alone" where Garry dies, Ib sees another Garry that is perfectly fine, meaning just because someone died in the gallery doesn't mean that they cannot come back to life as a painting. This is also supported that Ib's mother does the very same in another variation of "Ib All Alone," if Garry lives. We also can see that it's possible for a painting to leave the gallery by having two real people enter the gallery and leaving with one of them, while killing the other, which is explained with both the "Together Forever" ending and the "Painting's Demise" ending. And in the gallery, there are paintings of Ib (refer to the "sinister painting" in the Hide-and-Seek game) and her parents (refer to the "Couple" painting). By this logic, it can even be that Mary was just the most recent victim, since she was considered to be the last painting drawn by Guertena, but there wasn't any sign of a "Forgotten Portrait" being drawn afterwards.
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