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[[WMG: Karkat and Sollux eventually make it to Earth]]
...several decades ''before'' the SBURB beta. Sollux writes the book on ~ATH, while Karkat writes a series on programming under the name "Buckminster Funnyuncle".

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Just from the fact that he's moving the doll around just like Bro used to. Either Gamzee goes back in time and somehow vastly changes appearance, or Bro's consciousness was somehow transplanted after his death.

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Just from the fact that he's moving the doll Cal around just like Bro used to. Either Gamzee goes back in time and somehow vastly changes appearance, or Bro's consciousness was somehow transplanted after his death.
death.

[[WMG: Gamzee will be defeated by the Magnetic Wodka.]]
Juggalo. [[MemeticMutation Magnets]]. Once affable because he was essentially perpetually drunk. "You guess this could be useful" is rather blatant {{Foreshadowing}}.
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* That also explains why humans only have one type of romance, Karkat always ''was'' a fan of RomComs after all.

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* That also explains why humans only have one type of romance, Karkat always ''was'' a fan of RomComs romcoms after all.
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*That also explains why humans only have one type of romance, Karkat always ''was'' a fan of RomComs after all.
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[[WMG: Gamzee is Bro.]]
Just from the fact that he's moving the doll around just like Bro used to. Either Gamzee goes back in time and somehow vastly changes appearance, or Bro's consciousness was somehow transplanted after his death.
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[[WMG: Befitting his title, Karkat actually ''is'' a BloodKnight.]]
Yes, he's pretty vicious in a fight, but that doesn't qualify him for that trope. But combined with his self-admitted high standards for his kismesis, he fits almost perfectly. Especially considering that kismesis almost literally means "Fated Enemy", or perhaps... "WorthyOpponent".
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* For that matter... it looks like she used its code to alchemize a chainsaw. Considering Trollian's transtemporal viewscreen, that code may be recoverable. And we've already seen that there are Alchemiters and probably totem lathes in this asteroid.
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*****John doesn't match up with that anymore (GT replaced by EB). So the troll's chumhandle could be GT. Or UU.
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[[WMG: The so-called Troll Ancestors are actually the trolls' descendants.]]
In the [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004692 [S] Past Karkat: Wake up]] flash, there's a scene with Karkat surrounded by the team's paradox clones just after creation. We only see the team's grubs, not their ancestors, and going by [[http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003840 [S] Descend]], these grubs ''should'' be sent to their meteors all at once, just before the reckoning. So where are the ancestors' grubs? Simple: They haven't been made yet. The ancestors are actually descended from the trolls, not the other way around.
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I wish I had better examples. I will try to find the passage I am thinking of.

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[[WMG: Since Karkat was closest to the new universe before the scratch, his ideas had the most influence on it]]
All humans have red blood, for instance. One troll (I forget which, I think Vriska when she is talking to John) says that Karkat would have been better off as a human- maybe because he created the human's psychology to resemble his own.
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** He could have crafted said supermassive bow himself using a possible wealth of technical knowledge, reflected in Equius' robot-building hobby.
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* The strength problem was dealt with by giving him a supermassive bow that fired arrows the size of a building, making him into a living siege weapon.
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* If Nepeta lives, then there will be three alive trolls from the blue team (8r8k). Since Tavros is dead, there are five trolls that are alive (alive enough to consciously capable of manipulating the physical plane) on the red team (H34DS). Also, she can't be dead because DEAD. hasn't been written on a panel with her.
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[[WMG: Sollux has two ancestors. Karkat has none.]]
Look at it this way, it has been confirmed that Terezi and Vriska are sisters. And it is highly likely that Eridan and Feferi are siblings, the same is true of Team Charge. What's notable about all these pairings is that all of them have consecutive colors on the hemospectrum. From this we can determine that: Equius and Gamzee are brothers. Kanaya and Nepeta are sisters. This leaves Karkat and Sollux as the only odd ones out.

Sollux, true to character, will probably have two ancestors, leaving Karkat with none. Where did Karkat's genes come from then? He had some of the random genes left over in the 'slurry', including many recessive genes that, with some mutations, gave Karkat his red blood.
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* Unless [[spoiler: Karkat is weeping with joy because Gamzee is giving him his own Warhammer of Zillyhoo]] I don't think that's going to happen... then again, it's quite possible he is!



* Or, more simply: Ghosts don't sleep. Thus, there'd be no need for Aradia to have a dreamself, as she'd never have the opportunity to ''use'' it. Since this leaves Derse with a spare player-slot, the most thematically appropriate player (Sollux) gets an extra dreamself. Aradia ges assigned to the Time Traveler role for balance reasons, to give her an alternate means of quick-travel and self preservation.

Resolved with 01/05/11 - "[S] Wake." and accompanying [[WordOfGod formsprings]] -- [[spoiler: Aradia ''did'' have a dreamself, but owing to her death before the beginning of Sgrub and her ghostly status, it wasn't sleeping in a tower and didn't appear in the chart.]]

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* Or, more simply: Ghosts don't sleep. Thus, there'd be no need for Aradia to have a dreamself, as she'd never have the opportunity to ''use'' it. Since this leaves Derse with a spare player-slot, the most thematically appropriate player (Sollux) gets an extra dreamself. Aradia ges gets assigned to the Time Traveler role for balance reasons, to give her an alternate means of quick-travel and self preservation.

preservation.
**
Resolved with 01/05/11 - "[S] Wake." and accompanying [[WordOfGod formsprings]] -- [[spoiler: Aradia ''did'' have a dreamself, but owing to her death before the beginning of Sgrub and her ghostly status, it wasn't sleeping in a tower and didn't appear in the chart.]]




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* Still up for grabs! [[spoiler: They can if they're ''un''dead and able operate an ectobiology lab!]]
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[[WMG:Equius' ancestor was an Archeradicator, despite his strength.]]
That's why Equius wanted to be an Archeradicator so badly, yet also cherished the STRONGNESS that stood in his way.

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******* Due to the fact that Karkat's blood color probably doesn't occur naturally, along with Kanaya's statement that, if a paradox clone is mutated, it does not become itself like most other paradox clone, it is possible that the thirteenth troll is just another Karkat, but with a different blood color. As the trolls' ectobiologist, Karkat could have a number of reasons for ensuring either that he had the same blood color, or ensuring that he would have a more normal blood color without realizing that he would still stay the same.


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[[WMG: Due to Ectobiology Shenanigans, there are two Karkats]]
The implications that Karkat's blood color probably doesn't occur naturally in trolls, along with Kanaya's [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005218 statement]] that, if a paradox clone is mutated, it is not a true paradox clone and is not sent back in time, it is possible that the current Karkat is a mutant clone, which would mean that somewhere there is another Karkat with a different blood color. Since he the trolls' ectobiologist, Karkat would have likely done this himself, but have a number of reasons for ensuring either that he had the same blood color to distinguish himself from the others, or ensuring that he would have a more normal blood color without realizing that he would still stay the same.
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******* Due to the fact that Karkat's blood color probably doesn't occur naturally, along with Kanaya's statement that, if a paradox clone is mutated, it does not become itself like most other paradox clone, it is possible that the thirteenth troll is just another Karkat, but with a different blood color. As the trolls' ectobiologist, Karkat could have a number of reasons for ensuring either that he had the same blood color, or ensuring that he would have a more normal blood color without realizing that he would still stay the same.
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[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were [[spoiler: hidden sides to their guardians]], the trolls will find much the same for their [[spoiler: {{Famous Ancestor}}s]].
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that [[spoiler: Mindfang was an UnrelaibleNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions.]] This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]

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[[WMG: In parallel with how the kids found out that there were [[spoiler: hidden sides to their guardians]], guardians, the trolls will find much the same for their [[spoiler: {{Famous Ancestor}}s]].
Ancestor}}s.]]
The ones that cared about them anyway. For example, Vriska may find that [[spoiler: Mindfang was an UnrelaibleNarrator UnreliableNarrator and wasn't as ruthless or cruel as she seemed to be, or that she had deep feelings of remorse for her actions.]] This will cause her to [[FreakOut Flip The Fuck Out]]

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Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tempering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.

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Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tempering tampering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.






Trolls used to reproduce in a manner not that dissimilar to Homo sapiens, their human-like sexual dimorphism is a relic of this period and the Mother Grub is a biotechnological intervention. The filial pail is part of this technological innovation; this form of reproduction required considerable alterations to the Troll's own biology. They are almost certainly sterile without the aid of the mother grub by this point. The Lususii are a part of these modifications as well; allowing the trolls to outsource child-rearing as well as childbearing. Most likely, the Imperial Drones are a component as well

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Trolls used to reproduce in a manner not that dissimilar to Homo sapiens, their human-like sexual dimorphism is a relic of this period and the Mother Grub is a biotechnological intervention. The filial pail is part of this technological innovation; this form of reproduction required considerable alterations to the Troll's own biology. They are almost certainly sterile without the aid of the mother grub by this point. The Lususii are a part of these modifications as well; allowing the trolls to outsource child-rearing as well as childbearing. Most likely, the Imperial Drones are a component as well
well.


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[[WMG: When Kanaya became a Rainbow Drinker, she wandered around in a trance for a while before regaining consciousness]]
[[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005506 Here,]] Kanaya sees bite marks appear on Terezi's neck to her apparent surprise. Shortly after, she disappears from the Dream Bubble. The fact that Kanaya is still in the Dream Bubble at this point indicates that she's still unconscious. At this time her body was moving entirely on instinct, seeking out blood so she had enough strength to fully revive. The blood from Terezi put her over the top, so she awoke, whereupon her first action was to [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005417 bandage Terezi's neck.]]
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[[{{Homestuck}} > Return to main page]]

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[[{{Homestuck}} > Return to main page]]page]]
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No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it as the trolls are effectively extinct; as of current events/timeline at least.

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No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it as the trolls are effectively extinct; as of current events/timeline at least.least.
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[[{{WMG.Homestuck}} > Go Back]]\\
[[{{Homestuck}} > Return to main page]]
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Additions to a WMG I was about to make myself.

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[[{{Tropers/Altimadark}} This Troper]] thinks this WMG is on to something. Consider the following:
* Lord English is very methodical about killing universes. Similarly, Gamzee is very methodical about subjuggulating the peasantbloods.
* The CAIRO OVERCOAT looks similar enough to Nepeta's coat that it could be an alchemized version of it.
* The CAIRO OVERCOAT's rainbow trim ties in well with Gamzee's desire to paint things with the rainbow-colored blood of [[strike:his fellow players]] the peasantbloods.
* Speaking of the Grand Highblood, he looks like he might actually be big enough to fit into the massive CAIRO OVERCOAT, which, if true, means it should fit Gamzee as well, once he grows up.
* Lord English is immortal, as is anyone who attains God Tier. While you need a dream self and a quest bed to reach God Tier, we never did confirm the ultimate fate of Gamzee's dreamself.
* Lord English is capable of time travel. Who's to say Gamzee doesn't steal Aradia's turntables and use them to get back to his yet-to-be-destroyed quest bed? Even if it turns out to be in an alternate, doomed timeline, a quest bed is a quest bed.
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Trolls used to reproduce in a manner not that dissimilar to Homo sapiens; their human-like sexual dimorphism is a relic of this period.. The Mother grub is a biotechnological intervention. The filial pail is part of this technological intervention; this form of reproduction required alterations to the Troll's own biology as well. They are almost certainly sterile without the aid of the mother grub by this point. The Lususii are a part of this modification as well; outsourcing child-rearing as well as childbearing. Most likely, the Imperial Drones are as well

There are several possible reasons for this change. Amoungst others: freeing female trolls from having to bear their young or raise them, increased reproductive efficiency so that the vast hosts needed to conquer and hold their massive interstellar empire could be bred; or purely for reasons of ideology

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Trolls used to reproduce in a manner not that dissimilar to Homo sapiens; sapiens, their human-like sexual dimorphism is a relic of this period.. The period and the Mother grub Grub is a biotechnological intervention. The filial pail is part of this technological intervention; innovation; this form of reproduction required considerable alterations to the Troll's own biology as well.biology. They are almost certainly sterile without the aid of the mother grub by this point. The Lususii are a part of this modification these modifications as well; outsourcing allowing the trolls to outsource child-rearing as well as childbearing. Most likely, the Imperial Drones are a component as well

There are several possible reasons for this change. Amoungst Amongst others: freeing female trolls from having to bear their young or raise them, increased reproductive efficiency so that the vast hosts needed to conquer and hold their massive interstellar empire could be bred; or purely for reasons of ideology
ideology.



No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it as the trolls are effectively extinct; as of current events at least.

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No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it as the trolls are effectively extinct; as of current events events/timeline at least.
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No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it.

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No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it.it as the trolls are effectively extinct; as of current events at least.

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Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them done through sheer DETERMINATION!

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Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them done down through sheer DETERMINATION!DETERMINATION!


[[WMG: The Mother Grub is not a natural part of the Troll lifecycle]]
Trolls used to reproduce in a manner not that dissimilar to Homo sapiens; their human-like sexual dimorphism is a relic of this period.. The Mother grub is a biotechnological intervention. The filial pail is part of this technological intervention; this form of reproduction required alterations to the Troll's own biology as well. They are almost certainly sterile without the aid of the mother grub by this point. The Lususii are a part of this modification as well; outsourcing child-rearing as well as childbearing. Most likely, the Imperial Drones are as well

There are several possible reasons for this change. Amoungst others: freeing female trolls from having to bear their young or raise them, increased reproductive efficiency so that the vast hosts needed to conquer and hold their massive interstellar empire could be bred; or purely for reasons of ideology

Whatever the reason for this, it was done well outside of living memory; possibly even before the time of the ancestors.

No matter what advantage this lent the Alternian Empire, it has certainly doomed what remains of it.
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Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tempering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.

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Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tempering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.Sun.

[[WMG: Orphaner Dualscar is Skipper Plumbthroat]]
Similar to the above "Eridan is Skipper Plumbthroat", but Eridan's dead now. HOWEVER, whatever the SUPREME HIGHBLOOD actually did to Orphaner sent him to the Furthest Ring... where in the finest tradition of crazed trolls everywhere, he began to take them done through sheer DETERMINATION!
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[[WMG: Vriska Will Do Something Inhibiting Out Of Jealousy Of Rose And Kanaya]]
Whether or not Rose and Kanaya actually have feelings for each other, the other trolls seem to think so. A most likely outcome of this is that she will somehow continue to make everyone's lives worse by tempering with Rose's destruction of the Green Sun.
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Karkat = Ophiuchus troll theory, bluh bluh

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****** Karkat or his ancestor seems a good candidate for Ophiuchus troll. It's been established that the trolls' symbols correspond to their position in society - if people can't tell his blood color from his symbol, Karkat must be wearing a fake (or a symbol ordinarily worn by a caste between Gemini and Leo rolls, hence his sorting in chumrolls despite his grey text.)

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* [[PhoenixWright Hold it!]] Dave mentions vaguely that Gamzee got over his religious crisis. It's strongly hinted that his intellect/personality was being held back by the poisonous slime pies that he ran out of.

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* [[PhoenixWright Hold it!]] Dave mentions vaguely that Gamzee got over his religious crisis. It's strongly hinted that his intellect/personality was being held back by the poisonous slime pies that he ran out of.



We've already had Vriska supposedly be in charge of everything in the kids' session, but that was not-so-fasted by Andrew. We can't exactly trust it when he calls Gamzee the Most Important Character in Homestuck, but don't you think it suspicious that around the point of the story that Andrew calls The Best Thing To Happen To Homestuck, we see him from John's Oracle Cloud? It's time to put that theory on the table. You can't tell me his clownishness doesn't fit the magic Doc Who scarf! Too bad there aren't any real hints on who's killing the Outer Gods, whether it's Bec Noir/The Demon, just plain one of the badder outer gods, or Lord English. Anyone wanna chime in on how Doc Scratch could've caused the aforementioned madness in Gamzee? Should be easy: in Paradox Space, [[MindScrew everything inevitably and retroactively causes everything else]].

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We've already had Vriska supposedly be in charge of everything in the kids' session, but that was not-so-fasted by Andrew. We can't exactly trust it when he calls Gamzee the Most Important Character in Homestuck, but don't you think it suspicious that around the point of the story that Andrew calls The Best Thing To Happen To Homestuck, we see him from John's Oracle Cloud? It's time to put that theory on the table. You can't tell me his clownishness doesn't fit the magic Doc Who scarf! Too bad there aren't any real hints on who's killing the Outer Gods, whether it's Bec Noir/The Demon, just plain one of the badder outer gods, or Lord English. Anyone wanna chime in on how Doc Scratch could've caused the aforementioned madness in Gamzee? Should be easy: easy; after all, in Paradox Space, [[MindScrew everything inevitably and retroactively causes everything else]].




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*** Except that all he does with the role is destroy hope.




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*Well, not Guardian-level inauspicious, but if you comb back through the descriptions of different troll castes, read about the subJUGGulators. Or just check out the Highblood.




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* That was her whole freakin' plan. Become the instigator of Jack's power, and then kill him. But don't worry - John is her backup plan, who she has claimed will be even more powerful than her.




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* Given recent Aradia and Tavros developments in the dreambubbles, that may be normal anyway.




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* Yeah, the whole Witch of Life, since it wasn't apparently crucial to bringing back Tavros, is looking like a Chekov's BFG.



** Yep, d00m c0nfirmed.



** Finally there's Terezi's statement that luck dosen't matter.

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** Finally there's Terezi's statement that luck dosen't actually matter.

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