History WMG / FullmetalAlchemist

* There also could be too much traumatic history between them both. If Riza truely felt bad about giving away her father's secrets and wanted the tattoo destroyed, she could have just gotten another tattooist to make it illegible or even do the burns herself. But she didn't; she asked Roy, the Flame Alchemist, to burn her skin ''so there'd never be another Flame Alchemist''. The sheer amount of guilt and blame being laid in that action is huge. Later on, she tells him that if he breaks her trust again, she'd utterly destroy herself to ruin her father's notes for good. There's no real point to destroying the notes at this point; it was something said to shame Roy and make him feel accountable for her death. Like a lot of other characters in the manga, there's a real undercurrent of guilt, shame, and blame in Roy and Riza, which could be a real stumbling block for any real relationship.

*** I think you're somewhat missing my point. They're both smart people, they could have found a way to destroy the tattoo themselves if they really wanted to. But the act of the Flame Alchemist burning the secretkeeper of his alchemy so no one else could misuse it is a powerful, almost damning act, one that cannot be easily explained away by just practicality at the time. I also disagree that Riza is the ''only'' person who understand Roy's pain - many other characters are haunted by what they did in Ishbal, like Armstrong using his own alchemy to kill others or the doctor who dissected Roy's burnt corpes. Hell, Riza likes guns because she didn't have to see her enemy die up close, while Roy knows that his lips get greasy from human fat (the manga even emphasises his personal knowledge of burning people to the point of scariness). Their specific shared pain is the betrayal of their ideal to use the flame alchemy to help the country, a betrayal that wounds them both in different ways. But you're right, they do understand each other very very well. What I disagree with is that it's impossible for them to be platonic. In regards to chapter 95, I fail to see how threatening to shoot someone who is about to betray you ''again'' and then saying you're going to destroy yourself for good because of the madness you unleashed is saying 'I can't live without you' and is supposed to be ''romantic''. Killing yourself because your love is dead (''because you killed them'') is disturbing and messed-up, so I really don't understand why Royai fans used that very dark and disturbing exchange as 'proof' that their pairing is canon.
*** I disagree. 1) You say it was a damning act, and in part it was, but what all that burning was about was for Riza to, emotionally and physically, be free from her father's bonds and for Roy to somehow make up his betrayal of her trust to her. That's how Arakawa portrayed it. I really doubt anything other than Roy burning her could have been done, but if you think of something let me know. But my point in that is- that is how Arakawa planned it and wanted it. You need to keep in mind that FMA's characters aren't people, they're just ink and paper of a writer's imagination. 2) I agree with you on the point that others know Roy's pain of ''Ishval'' but again I have to disagree, since what I'm referring to is the number of people killed. For a poor example- the atom bomb. Roy's the bomb, Riza's the scientist. You can't tell me that just because the inventors of the atom bomb weren't out killing Hiroshima's residents they didn't feel a horrible guilt engulfing them. I mean it to this affect. It's the guilt that's being shared there- I don't really understand what you mean by betrayal. How was there a betrayal there? Roy didn't willingly commit genocide. Riza knew that. There could be form of diluted betrayal there, but they obviously still trust each other with their backs; if there was really a sense of betrayal, there'd need to be hatred there, or at least dislike, but there isn't. For me, that's the whole point about Mustang and Hawkeye's relationship- logically speaking, if as you said, it was betrayal that kept those two binded to each other, there should be hate, dislike, weariness, but in the series they've both shown an immense attachment to each other. Riza cries and gives up when she thinks Roy is dead. Roy panicks when he thinks Riza's in danger. Roy gave up on dying when Riza would die too. And, I must point out that in ch. 101, until Riza gave Roy that signal about the chimeras being above ''he still could not make a choice between saving her or committing human transmutation''. 3) You see, this is my point when I say it's not platonic: their relationship is built on the angst they've caused each other, however they trust each other with their lives and care about each other's safety. In ch. 95, Roy was the one being just as 'damning' as you portrayed Hawkeye in the burning-the-tattoo scene, if not more. ''He was telling Riza to kill him''. He'd seen Riza cry when she'd thought he was dead, he'd even commeneted on it a scant chapter or so before, but nonetheless he was so overwhelmed with hatred that he didn't care if he caused her pain (thus his apology and distraught look later on, when he told her to lower her gun). This just proves that ''yes'', '''they are two screwed up people'''. I never denied this. But I don't believe it's platonic at all, simply because Roy stopped his MoralEventHorizon when he knew that he would be damning Riza as well as himself. He cared about her more than himself- and, now that we come to it, since he was planning on dying and throwing all his plans down the drain, he cares about Riza more than he cares about his goal, but my main point is that he cares about'' '''her''' more than ending his pain and just dying''- and isn't caring about someone more than yourself the basics of love? 3.5) Riza saying she'd kill herself is simply because if Roy had forced her to shoot him like she'd promised, she would be too overcome with the pain of it all to carry on; because even if it had been Scar to pull the trigger and not Hawkeye, she would still have been the one who had exposed him to Flame Alchemy and made him capable of Ishval. She was still the one who made Roy into a murderer, and made him capable of CrossingTheLine. The guilt of making her most important person die would have been too much for her-- and yes, there'd be no other option and she ''would'' have to pull the trigger, because in the pair's Ishval-influenced-mindset she ''owed'' him to keep her promise, just like he had owed her to burn her back; it's the guilt behind it all that's making them hurt each other in the end, though it's technically for their own good; Riza didn't want to be bound to her father's alchemy, and Roy didn't want to turn into 'an animal in human skin', no matter how painful and fatal the solutions may have been. Another reason for Riza's possible suicide: Roy and Riza living and working together to change the country is their ''redemption'' for Ishval- it's the only way they can look themselves in the mirror. I think that in ch. 95 all that pain of Ishval and Hughes' death just came rushing to the surface, and the self-loathing within the pair of them manifested into a desire to just die and be done with it. But the reason that tipped the scales, the reason that Roy didn't let Riza shoot him, was not his goal at the end. At the end it was an unwillingness to cause Riza pain again. Despite Scar and Ed's words' affecting him, up until Riza told him she'd die too, Roy was willing to die. - and now I've rambled on again, so I don't really know if you got my point, but here it is: ''Roy and Riza care about each other more than themselves''. I'm not saying it's nice, I'm not even saying it's healthy- however, I don't believe that you can care that much about a person on a platonic level. Not to mention Arakawa herself has dropped [[ShipTease little hints]] various times over the series: when Grumman asked Roy to marry his granddaughter, his reponse was "You're thinking to far ''ahead''" exactly, as well as Roy going into a rage over Barry the Chopper's groping, him calling her "RIZA!" when he was a student, Mustang labelling Riza as his Queen, Chris knowing 'Elizabeth', the gold-tooth scientist calling Hawkeye Roy's 'precious woman' (yes, literally, I read RAWS), Bradley calling her his 'important person', Ed telling Roy not to worry Hawkeye..etc. Taking all this evidence into account, I cannot help but conclude that there is definitely something there. It's not nice, not pretty, as I mentioned before not even healthy because of Ishval's influence, but to call the relations between Hawkeye and Mustang as platonic doesn't do justice to the emotion there.''' 'Love' doesn't have to have to be ''romance'' or nice, or even happy to be ''there''.''' Of course, I'm not saying I can convince you otherwise, I'm just giving my side of the argument. In conclusion, my personal opinion is that Hawkeye and Mustang are willing to spend their lives together. They don't need marriage, and aren't capable of it either (as I said, the only way/time I can see it happening is when they're really old). But they do think of each other as their most important person, and they do put each other, admittance or not, above everyone/everything else. That's all I'm trying to say.

* Minor correction: if he was related to Miles, he'd have to be either Miles's grandfather or one of his grandfather's relatives. I ''think'' Miles commented that his father was of a non-Ishvalan ethnicity, which would imply that the Ishval blood cam from his mother's side. Other than that, though, this ''would'' make for a nice dash of added drama.

** Holy crap, that ''would'' be uncomfortable! Imagine Ed being all "Stop admiring me! I kinda killed you / destroyed your memories once... (Also you used to be a bloodthirsty monster which is creepy.)" in his head all the time.

** Better yet: Kimblee will take a page from [[TricksterMentor Truth]]'s book and instead of being the kid's enemy, will become a BreakingSpeech style SpiritAdvisor to Selim once the latter grows up. Anyone could see Kimblee doing that; it fits his weird sense of humour. Antagonizing and mocking him one moment, and saying something that turns out to be helpful the next.

Not too off-the-wall, especially as {{WMG}}s go. Courtesy of Website/LiveJournal's moriapolonius, "[[http://community.livejournal.com/fanficrants/9237643.html?thread=284126347#t284126347 I always thought that Roy and Izumi were drawn as if they had Xingian blood. Black hair, narrow uptilted eyes, smaller size.]]" Also note their black irises. Consult ThisWiki's [[Characters/FullmetalAlchemist FMA character sheet]] for reference images.

* how did I not spot that?

* [[IncrediblyLamePun Cindy McKain]].
** Please explain this one.
* Plus the OP said "bi" not "lesbian". Maybe she liked Kain (a boy) and then got interested in Winry (a girl)...

* An omake even shows reborn!Selim threatening to tell Mrs Bradley that Grumman was the one who [[spoiler: Blew up King Bradley's train]]

* I actually use this in my [[fanon]] as almost-cannon. It makes perfect sense: Not only does he die by coughing up blood for some mysterious reason (Izumi anyone?), and his a master alchemist, he also claims that alchemists are beings that must "search for the Truth for as long as they live, (...) which is why I am a man who died long ago." Sounds like he's implying that he's seen the Truth to me. Not to mention that Riza says that her mother died years before her father... It's all too convienient to be a coincidence.

No particular reason, just RuleofDrama mostly.

* I think Father was assexual from the beginning. Even if he is human like in some aspects of his personality, I don't think a shadow blob thing would need to have any sort of sexual attraction.

** Chastity-His dedication to Trisha despite immortality and presumably staying chaste for most of his immortal life(given [[WhoWantsToLiveForever the immortality]], sleeping around [[ImmortalityProcreationClause would cause problems.]]

* FridgeHorror and also FridgeBrilliance here. What if they are working together specifically to find someone like Ed, and their goal is to ADVANCE humanity positively? (For the purposes of say, perhaps, creating more ample destruction later. Like say, Edward accidentally discovering Alchemic Nuclear Reaction and then they bring in THEIR chosen avatar to complete the deal. And then [[TakenToEleven take the reaction up to eleven]] by adding a Philosopher's Stone to the mix. Or MULTIPLE stones. By having sided with Ed over Father, they have someone who will give them what they need, but also not become competition (as Father may have with his pseudo-godhood). In other words, they want someone untainted by the sins Father represents so they won't go all [[AxCrazy cackling evilly mad]] once they discover ever more destructive alchemic techniques. NiceJobBreakingItHero Izumi couldn't work because her motherly instinct would have taken over at some point and said NO, THIS IS WRONG, but Ed is just way too much Classic Pulp Mad Scientist even in the midst of just how wrong alchemy can get, even with his own brother as example! (note how he fights homunculus, basically.)

[[WMG: Roy and Riza are a [[CatsCradle Duprass]]]]

Which is a word in KurtVonnegut's religion of Bokononism which essentially means, "two people working together to do God's will who have interconnected lives and always die within a week of each other."

[[WMG: God isn't Truth, but instead is [[KatamariDamacy The King of the Cosmos]]]]

* You've got a point there. And Scott [=McNeil=] did voice both Duo and Hohenheim.

Not too off-the-wall, especially as {{WMG}}s go. Courtesy of LiveJournal's moriapolonius, "[[http://community.livejournal.com/fanficrants/9237643.html?thread=284126347#t284126347 I always thought that Roy and Izumi were drawn as if they had Xingian blood. Black hair, narrow uptilted eyes, smaller size.]]" Also note their black irises. Consult ThisWiki's [[Characters/FullmetalAlchemist FMA character sheet]] for reference images.

Lust betraying Father was mentioned above, but this is elaborating on it: consider that the lust Father felt/feels is primarily lust for the perfection of [[AGodAmI becoming the new God.]] Given how Lust is literally her father's lust, it would make sense if she also had her desire for power-her occasional attempts to risk killing sacrifices is a sign of this. Unlike Greed, Lust was waiting for Father's guard to be down(likely when Hohenheim attempted to tear through his "old Hohenheim" disguise) and take his place-considering his lust for power/perfection was probably Father's second greatest trait, [[GenreSavvy she'd have to play the part of loyal]] PsychoForHire until the right moment. Her plan would probably involve using Gluttony's [[NightmareFuel stomach of infinite holding]] to [[AndIMustScream trap Father]] in case she's unable to absorb his Philosopher's Stone. Envy would probably be fine joining her since [[ForTheEvulz it would let him mess with people all the same]] and Lust would convince him to hate Father for making him so envious. Sloth wouldn't care given the work would probably be the same(or less). At most, Lust would only have to worry about Pride and Wrath, and even Wrath could probably be persuaded to her side.

On a lighter note, I came across [[http://fma.wikia.com/wiki/File:Lingyaofma.jpg this recently]], which was a shot from the original anime wherein one state alchemist looks exactly like Ling, but with Greed's sunglasses. Given that for instance Basque Gran looks the same in both the anime and the manga, I doubt it was a coincidence that Arakawa chose to draw that guy. There's also the cool factor that with the shades, Ling (and the above image) looks like a JohnWoo character.

She's the wife of the Fuhrer is in a family [[spoiler:with two of the most powerful homunculi.]] She's essentially this universe's conterpart to [[DragonballZ Chi-Chi.]]

Think about it; Bradley's spent the entire series saying flat out that the only person he loves is his wife. He's also been the only homunculus to come close to showing doubts about the plan, even if it's only in a twitch of his eye at various points. The way I see it is, Bradley doesn't like the plan, but is far too programmed by Father to try and avert it or do anything but help it to it's conclusion, which of course entails the death of everyone in Amestris, including Mrs. Bradley. So what does he do? He helps the plan through to the end, and then decides it's time to die. Being a BloodKnight though (and the living incarnation of Wrath) he can't simply off himself, so instead he throws himself into one last battle against Scar, one of the most BadAss people in series, and one of the few with a legitimate chance of killing him. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that this must play at least some part in Bradley's motivation, even if only at the subconcious level. Humanises him a bit too.

While RuleOfCool also applies, it's very improbable that someone who in military for many years in his life never using gun, But if you watches Maes Hughes, in every scene where he's fighting, he consistently using ''knives''. He spat on Envy by using a ''knife''. In Ishbal, where everyone using ''rifles'' he still brings them and never pick a rifle, or a ''handgun'', for that matter, [[{{Badass}} and still score impressive kills with them.]] It's very possible that he did pick guns at the beginning or the training, but for some reason or another, find knives to be more fit with him. Some possible reason:

[[WMG: Ling Yao and Lan Fan are expies of Lau and Ran Mao from BlackButler]]

[[WMG: The ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist'' Universe is really an alternate future of the {{Dragonlance}} Universe.]]
Okay, so let's say that the FMA universe is really an alternate timeline that split off from the {{Dragonlance}} universe during the early Fifth Age. The continent that Amestris is on is simply one of the other continents on Krynn, and the lack of races other than Humans can be explained by saying that some event caused them all to flee through planar portals long ago, OR there have only ever been Humans on the continent Amestris is on and since there never has been much contact between the continents in {{Dragonlance}} that there are in fact races like Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes on the other continents. Now, the FMA universe is an alternate timeline from the early Fifth Age because there is only one moon, not three, and there are no gods around. Alchemy is just another form of Primal Sorcery and Mysticism. The Truth is an entity who managed to hijack the Gate of Souls (Krynn has a Gate of Souls that all souls pass though after they die, where they go not even the gods know) and use it for its own purposes.

* You just give DanBrown something to write.

In the alternate universe of FMA, Amestris is the geographic equivalency of Afghanistan. Cold and powerful Drachma to the north is Russia, Xing is clearly Chinese and the East Desert separating it from Amestris is the Gobi Desert. Creta is divided into many tribal areas, not unlike northern Pakistan and while it is not currently the case, in ancient times India was a major maritime trade hub due to its favorable geography, not unlike Aerugo. The recently conquered and largely pacifist Ishvalla may be either Tibet or Nepal. Prior to wars with British India and Czarist Russia during the Victorian era, Afghanistan was also a regional military power like Amestris.

[[WMG: Philosopher's Stones are based on [[TengenToppaGurrenLagann Spiral Power]]]]

Father suceeded in his plan and left Ed just as he left Hoenheim ages ago. Ed's "triumph" is just a HopeSpot. In reality, there is no Reverse Transmutation Circle or it otherwise fails, the victims of Father's Transmutation Circle are all DEAD. Father is now and always God and Ed shoulders the same burden of survivor's guilt that his father bore long ago, wandering the wasteland that used to be Amestris . . . all alone.

Father suceeded in his plan and left Ed just as he left Hoenheim ages ago. Ed's "triumph" is just a HopeSpot.

*** It seems more likely that [[spoiler: considering that the gate takes what you value most]] Freeman would have lost his giant sexy brain, or his clobberin' arm. UNLESS. He had... the best voice. [[MusicToInvadePolandTo The best voice.]]
*** Because he is Freeman when he lost his sexy voice they gave it to some other Freeman who the Truth thought needed a sexy voice. Morgan Freeman.

*** Even then, with human transmutation, doesn't the alchemist need to find a way to combine all the different materials cohesively? In the case of an embryo or fetus, all the chemicals and pieces are there, so wouldn't it just be a simple matter of rearranging the DNA?

*** PhilosophersStone. ''[[Fridge/FullmetalAlchemist The Devil's Research.]]'' Case. Point.

*** [[spoiler: And AND Al wasn't actually dead. He was taken. There's a significant difference; his body and soul were intact and together, they were just at his Gateway instead of in the world. It's the same reason Ed was able to get his soul out of the Gate as far back as the beginning of the story; because Al was not dead, just gone.]]

* Izumi's Truth was a female silhouette.

*** Indeed, Olivia never said that she wasn't married, though other characters think so, such as her own brother. I can't remember if this scene was in the manga, but it certainly was in the anime: Alex said something along the lines of, "That's why you're not married!" But I totally love this theory; it's what converted me to shipping Miles/Olivia. And, because Olivia appears to be an ice queen (for practical reasons, as well as for the sake of her image, I guess), it would make sense for her to keep her marriage a secret (if she were actually married). Oh, and by the way, Olivia didn't say that she was too old to have kids, just that most other women her age would usually have a kid or two by now.

*** I have to agree with the above. Yes, reconstructing a human body, even to look like Trisha Elric, as Ed and Al tried, is possible with Alchemy, and fairly easily at that; what couldn't be reconstructed was the memories, thoughts and feelings of Trisha Elric. The best they could manage would be to place every second of her life story in the brain of the homunculus. Even then, it wouldn't be real.

*** Also, Riza is a Hungarian version of Thereza.

Father suceeded in his plan and left Ed just as he left Hoenheim ages ago. Ed's triumph is just a HopeSpot.

Now, the first vice he let go of was Pride, which might actually have been the reason he became (even more) insane in the first place. If we assume that he lost his ability to learn from his vices by seperating them from himself, he had been fighting a battle he already lost from the very beginning. It all boils down to the way you interpret "pride": On one hand, it can mean arrogance, which Pride (and Father) display in spades. But on the other hand, it might run closer along the lines of "being proud of something": Pride/Father just wanted people to be proud of him, to admire him and to look up to him, but he also wanted to be able to be proud of himself. Seeing this is the lesson Father could have learned if he had embraced his pride instead of getting rid of it, which would have meant he would never have done any of the horrible things that happend after Xerxes. Probably this is even the reason why he got rid of his pride first: After thinking about the way humans (collectively) look up to/are proud of people who do good things while looking down on those who kill and do as they please without any regard for the well-being of others, he maybe just couldn't stand that killing all these people in Xerxes actually put him into a position in which most people would look down on him (if he was part of their society, that is - but that's what he ultimately wants.) So in the end, his (and everyone else's) problems started because he was unable to face actually learning from his flaws and mistakes, and in the end he pays the price - even though he could have really become a decent person if he had chosen to act in a way that would allow himself and others to be proud of/admire his actions. It even ties in with the last confrontation Pride has with Kimblee: When he tries to use Ed's body as a container, Kimblee tells him that he looks down on Pride for "giving up his pride as a Humunculus". Pride isn't proud of being a Homunculus/proud of himself, which is why he doesn't see any problem with using Ed's body. He basically has the same problem as Envy, violent overcompensation for actually wanting to live as a human. And on a positive note, Pride is the only Homunculus who doesn't die - and the only one who can really live as a human. So if Father had rather used his pride as a motivation to become a decent person than to act arrogant, he could have reached what he really longed for all this time: A "normal" life, friends and a family. (Sure, he still would've had to deal with the remose of what happened in Xerxes AND he would have lived for a really long time, but the same is true for Hohenheim and even he had a pretty good run and was able to die in peace).

Sounds a little irrelevant, but I really think that he has it in him. Why? First of all, just look at how much he loves his little brother, to the point where he'd literally die for him. Second, and this one is a little more "meta-ish", but his voice actor is also [[PapaWolf Spirit]] from ''SoulEater'', and [[TeamDad Tamaki]][[note]]To be fair, more of a TeamMom, but considers Haruhi like a "daughter" of sorts[[/note]] in ''OuranHighSchoolHostClub''. Not to mention his general JerkWithAHeartOfGold persona, and the way he really took to Nina and Elicia. Kind of stupid, probably very self-evident, but I still felt the need to mention.

They're prince and princess of their respective clans, both in line for the throne that would likely only be allowed to go to the emperor's direct descendents. I gotta say, with 50 clans in Xing, that emperor sure gets around.