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[[WMG:Forrest Kaysen is [[spoiler:related to, or might even be the same species as [=Pennywise/=]{{IT}}]]]]

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[[WMG:Forrest Kaysen is [[spoiler:related to, or might even be the same species as [=Pennywise/=]{{IT}}]]]][=Pennywise/=]Literature/{{IT}}]]]]
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[[spoiler:An entity of the White Room, as Kaysen and Willie are entities of the Red World.]]
[[spoiler:The presence of Kaysen and the red tree sprouting from Zach's mother allowed him to intercept Zach when Kaysen tried to send him to the Red Room. Because he is really a nonhuman, supernatural entity inhabiting Zach's body, a sort of low-level precognition comes through in things like messages in his coffee and seeming leaps of illogic like the incident with the mug leading them to the waterfall. This is why he is able to converse with the real Zach and depart with Emily and the Goddesses at the end, which he wouldn't be able to do if he was an alternate personality.]]
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[[AC:Main/DeadlyPremonition]]

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[[AC:Main/DeadlyPremonition]]
[[AC:VideoGame/DeadlyPremonition]]
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[[WMG: The wall-crawling female enemies are all [[spoiler: Kaysen's]] previous victims.]]

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[[WMG: The wall-crawling female enemies are all [[spoiler: Kaysen's]] Kaysen's previous victims.]]]]]]



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* [[spoiler: George isn't "fat," he's muscular. At least one profiling segment shows the modern Raincoat Killer wearing George's spiked armbands, and it's suggested that the one York faces off against in the dark world is the original killer (George's grandfather), with the possible exception of the very last encounters in the police station.]]




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* Er, no. [[spoiler: Kaysen is the one who "plants" the seeds. As for the substitutes, Carol and Thomas were the only ones called that, because it seems George intended to use Emily for the last "sacrifice" but had to use Carol when that became an impossibility.]]

[[WMG: The wall-crawling female enemies are all [[spoiler: Kaysen's]] previous victims.]]
The sexual connotation explains their nudity, plus this would make sense as to why they're all female compared to the mix of men and women among the regular enemies.
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[[WMG: [[Red seeds grow into red trees if planted into someone the planter loves.]]

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[[WMG: [[Red Red seeds grow into red trees if planted into someone the planter loves.]]
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[[WMG: [[Red seeds grow into red trees if planted into someone the planter loves.]]
[[spoiler: George loved his mother (though in a love/hate kind of way), Zach/York's father was the one who planted the red seed in his wife, and George loved Emily. George's other murders were failures because he planted the seeds in the bodies of people that he thought might count but weren't loved enough by him (which is why they're called "substitutes").]]

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[[WMG: [[Polly Oliver is the killer]]]]

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[[WMG: [[Polly [[spoiler: Polly Oliver is the killer]]]]
killer]] ]]


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[[WMG: [[spoiler: Original Rain Coat Killer's name is Sergeant Timothy Woodman.]] ]]

When York first meets The General Lysander in the Town Hall meeting chapter he tells him to come by the junkyard and he will tell York all about the Raincoat Killer. However, as anyone who has completed all his sidequests know, he rambles on about a [[spoiler: "Crybaby" Sergeant Timothy who caused problems for the rest of his men but ultimately saved his life.]] York takes this as solving the mystery of why Lysander claims to be a General yet wears the patch of a Sergeant. But this troper believes that is just how Lysander CHOOSES to remember Timothy, as [[spoiler: Lysander and Timothy were probably with the military doing the purple gas experiment. Timothy tried to stop the military before they started, but probably got beat down and his gas mask torn off, leaving him somewhere in town. The last time Lysander sees Timothy, he is hulked out on Purple Gas cutting down anyone between him and the military at the clock tower. While the Raincoat killer failed to stop Kaysen(in fact its most likely Kaysen is the only thing that COULD stop The Raincoat Killer), he may have managed to butcher the soldiers present, sparing Lysander just as Harry claims the Raincoat Killer spared him.]] Harry knew about this but didn't tell York, leading York to assume something was wrong with the story.
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I apologize for making your system think I was using emoticons: I have been using Google Docs a lot recently, so I have a tendency to use Control and Escape instead of just Escape. I hate emoticons.



[[WMG: [[Polly Oliver is the killer]]]]

This game's ending is so cliched, and it really makes no sense and does not match the given evidence. Polly is short, thin and hunchbacked like the killer; [[spoiler: George Woodman and Forrest Kaysen are tall, fat and have good posture.]] Polly is the friend of [[spoiler: Kaysen,]] she knows the mental problems of all the guys who are supposedly involved in the killings and can manipulate them. Polly was a former model whose looks were ravaged by age, thus she was jealous of the young, pretty girls who died, which was her motive. She was the owner, caretaker and customer service worker for a hotel, thus she probably knew a lot about things like engineering, restructuring and psychology, all of which were used by the killer. Her hearing was shitty, thus Francis was able to hide from her simply by covering his mouth. She was in tune with ghosts because she was virtually a ghost herself. She lied and manipulated Francis throughout the game: She only revealed her past after he did her a favor; she never mentioned her friendship with [[spoiler: Kaysen;] she acted like a decrepit, weak old bag but proved to be strong and fast when necessary. She was alive when [[spoiler: The military unleashed the fog.]]



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* The little girl is [[spoiler: the granddaughter of Zach]], and the storyteller is [[spoiler: Zach himself.]] She treats her teddy bear (as seen in the trailer) as an imaginary friend [[spoiler: along the lines of York]], which prompts him to tell her the story. This one's quite common.

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* The little girl is [[spoiler: the granddaughter of Zach]], and the storyteller is [[spoiler: Zach himself.]] She treats her teddy bear (as seen in the trailer) as an imaginary friend [[spoiler: along the lines of York]], which prompts him to tell her the story. This one's quite common. common.
** Confirmed as of the final release.


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[[WMG:[[spoiler:The Red Room, White Room and Forest represent the Id, Superego and Ego, respectively.]]]]
The New Raincoat Killer [[spoiler:and Kaysen]] both have [=MOs=] clearly themed around depravity and vice, and [[spoiler:particularly in Kaysen's case, are very good at masquerading as innocent and blending in with society around them.]] Contrast [[spoiler:York, who first meets Zach in the White Room, and Harry, who's seen in there without his mask; both are the primary opposition to the villains, and both distance themselves from society rather than hiding themselves in it (Harry deliberately, York as a consequence of his odd behavior). For bonus points, Harry has an apparent obsession with penance.]] The people caught in the middle - [[spoiler:such as the Raincoat Killer's victims, and Thomas, who has feelings for both George and York and is simultaneously a perpetrator and a victim]] - end up in The Forest.
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* Similarly, the little girl is [[spoiler: York's granddaughter]] and the entire scene takes place in [[spoiler: the Woods of the Goddess]]. So naturally, the old man is [[spoiler: York]], and the [[spoiler: "grandma"]] the little girl mentions is [[spoiler: Emily]].

Getting weirder now...
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* The "new character" spoken of isn't the little girl, but the "grandfather" telling her the story. [[spoiler: The little girl is a young Emily, who actually had an imaginary friend/guardian from the Woods of the Goddesses of her own as a child, because the Woods knew she would become a Goddess someday. Her prescient imaginary friend then told her the story of what would happen to her in the future as a way of preparing her for her fate. It'd be just as MindScrew-y as it sounds.

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* The "new character" spoken of isn't the little girl, but the "grandfather" telling her the story. [[spoiler: The little girl is a young Emily, who actually had an imaginary friend/guardian from the Woods of the Goddesses of her own as a child, because the Woods knew she would become a Goddess someday. Her prescient imaginary friend then told her the story of what would happen to her in the future as a way of preparing her for her fate. It'd be just as MindScrew-y as it sounds. ]]
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In a weird way, I almost feel like the third theory I put up is the most plausible.

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* [[spoiler: Zach never leaves Greenvale, instead becoming the new Sheriff]]

[[WMG: Theories on the identity of the little girl in the Director's Cut, and the person telling her the story...]]
* The little girl is [[spoiler: the granddaughter of Zach]], and the storyteller is [[spoiler: Zach himself.]] She treats her teddy bear (as seen in the trailer) as an imaginary friend [[spoiler: along the lines of York]], which prompts him to tell her the story. This one's quite common.
* The little girl is [[spoiler: the daughter of York and Emily]], and the person telling her the story is [[spoiler: Grandpa Xander]]. The whole story sequence takes place in [[spoiler: the Woods of the Goddesses.]] The girl's teddy bear seems to be wearing York's tie, and the girl herself [[spoiler: bears a strong enough resemblance to Emily that she could be her daughter.]]
* The "new character" spoken of isn't the little girl, but the "grandfather" telling her the story. [[spoiler: The little girl is a young Emily, who actually had an imaginary friend/guardian from the Woods of the Goddesses of her own as a child, because the Woods knew she would become a Goddess someday. Her prescient imaginary friend then told her the story of what would happen to her in the future as a way of preparing her for her fate. It'd be just as MindScrew-y as it sounds.
* The little girl is indeed the granddaughter of the man telling the story, but the man himself is [[spoiler: one of the Ingram twins, grown up. York and Emily finally told him and his brother the story once they got older, and now he's telling it to her.]]
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[[WMG: Possible alternate endings in the DirectorsCut]]
* You can save certain characters from dying(I.E. [[spoiler: You can save Emily, Diane and Becky from Kaysen if you did all their sidequests or something along those lines]])
* [[spoiler: You somehow use the other world to travel back in time to kill Kaysen(and possibly Willie) before he kills Anna]]
* [[spoiler: York becomes the dominant perosnality and completely takes over Zach ala the bad ending to Manhunt 2]]
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SWERY has said in interviews the original Rainy Woods did not have combat being a straight up investigation game which is why the no one else seems to notice the Shadows coming out after midnight etc. It seemed to me, however that [[they were the spirits of the victims of Kaysen's purple gas conscripted to fight against the one Human who could truly stop Kaysen. York and Zach working from both their prospective worlds. York doesn't tell anyone about the Shadows because he knows what they as he exists on their level. While Zach has been wandering Greenvale investigating the murders, York has been defending the town against the encroachment of the Red World's forces. When you die during the combat levels, only York would die while Zach would continue on. But without York's guidance(i.e. connection to other worlds, including ours that allow us to play the game) Zach would ultimately be crushed by George or Kaysen.]]

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SWERY has said in interviews the original Rainy Woods did not have combat being a straight up investigation game which is why the no one else seems to notice the Shadows coming out after midnight etc. It seemed to me, however that [[they [[spoiler: they were the spirits of the victims of Kaysen's purple gas conscripted to fight against the one Human who could truly stop Kaysen. York and Zach working from both their prospective worlds. York doesn't tell anyone about the Shadows because he knows what they as he exists on their level. While Zach has been wandering Greenvale investigating the murders, York has been defending the town against the encroachment of the Red World's forces. When you die during the combat levels, only York would die while Zach would continue on. But without York's guidance(i.e. connection to other worlds, including ours that allow us to play the game) Zach would ultimately be crushed by George or Kaysen.]]

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** this troper would like to add to the theory that [[spoiler: they may be some sort of descendant of Red World-Our World hybrids which is why they get bolstered by the Purple Gas rather than simply lose their senses.]]


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[[WMG: The Shadow Sequences are much more than simply late edition combat levels to an awesome adventure game.]]
SWERY has said in interviews the original Rainy Woods did not have combat being a straight up investigation game which is why the no one else seems to notice the Shadows coming out after midnight etc. It seemed to me, however that [[they were the spirits of the victims of Kaysen's purple gas conscripted to fight against the one Human who could truly stop Kaysen. York and Zach working from both their prospective worlds. York doesn't tell anyone about the Shadows because he knows what they as he exists on their level. While Zach has been wandering Greenvale investigating the murders, York has been defending the town against the encroachment of the Red World's forces. When you die during the combat levels, only York would die while Zach would continue on. But without York's guidance(i.e. connection to other worlds, including ours that allow us to play the game) Zach would ultimately be crushed by George or Kaysen.]]


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I honestly thought for a while that there was going to be some \"White Seeds\" element in the game, due to all the white trees in the white dreamspace... no such luck, but it makes for a fun theory.

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[[WMG: [[spoiler: There are "White Seeds" from the Woods of the Goddesses that have opposite effects from the Red Seeds.]]]]
[[spoiler: The Red Trees and Kaysen are both from the Red World, and the Red World stands in opposition to the Woods of the Goddesses. Some theories and interpretations make York out to be an angel or agent of the Woods/the White Room in the same way Kaysen is an agent of the Red World, so perhaps the Woods of the Goddesses also produce an analogue of the Red Seeds. Like the Red Seeds, they have effects when consumed, but unlike the Red Seeds, the effects of the White Seeds are benign. Since Red Seeds make people insane, White Seeds grant increased mental clarity, and whereas Red Seeds make people ''physically'' powerful, White Seeds make them ''psychically'' powerful. And while Red Trees grow from abdomens in a symbolic FetusTerrible way, White Seeds will grant unique abilities to unborn children if a woman eats them while pregnant.]]
* [[spoiler: Two women in the story consumed White Seeds while pregnant: Valentine Morgan, and Lilly Ingram. Francis Morgan's profiling ability is part amazing deductive skills granted to him by his mother's consumption of the seeds, and part postcognition. His ability to visit the various rooms and Other Worlds is also thanks to them. The Ingram twins, meanwhile, have the ability to see the Goddesses and commune with spirits, which were granted to ''them'' by their mother eating the White Seeds.]]

[[WMG: [[spoiler: York and Zach will never be fully separate.]]]]
[[spoiler: Although Zach indicates that he's all alone in the "real world" now, such as when he's driving around and in his "status update" messages, York still appears to him when he goes to sleep in the hotel, and he of course appears in the White Room in the Special menu. We know that Francis Morgan (the "overbody," as it were) is a naturally psychically sensitive person, since he can see the Other World, the two Rooms, and the Goddesses (sometimes, such as the during Becky's death). It seems there are two things that help him "break the veil," as it were: Coffee ([[WordOfGod yes, that's official]]) and sleep. So although York and Zach no longer share a body and aren't in communication 100% of the time, they are still brought close to one another and can communicate when Zach is asleep, or, possibly, through coffee.]]
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[[spoiler:An [[Anime/BlackRockShooter Otherself.]]

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[[spoiler:An [[Anime/BlackRockShooter Otherself.]]]]]]
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[[spoiler:An [[Anime/BlackRockShooter Otherself.]]
[[spoiler:His replacing Zach is very similar to how Strength and Yuu switched places. York is better at manifesting than Strength was.]]
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[[WMG: [[spoiler: Forrest Kaysen]] has been around far longer than everyone knows of.]]
His music starts out with drums, sounding similar to tribal music.
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* A completely new main character. Most of the story of the first game was resolved, York's story is over, as well as many others in Greenvale.
* Centered in a new town.
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[[spoiler: --> ''"A doll, shaped like a fat man. It has a plate on it which reads 'Washington state'."'']]

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--> [[spoiler: --> ''"A doll, shaped like a fat man. man. It has a plate on it which reads 'Washington state'."'']]
state"'']]

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[[WMG: Possible explanation for the fat men dolls on the map in the Red Room]]
[[spoiler:The map in question is one of the observable objects in the Red Room in the Prologue chapter. It's a map of the United States with little upside-down peace symbols (The Mark of The Red Tree) stuck into it across various states. There's also a bunch of Kaysen dolls placed on the map, each wearing different clothing; although one of them is wearing the yellow plaid and overalls the player encounters him in later. Observing the map yields the following text:

--> ''"A doll, shaped like a fat man. It has a plate on it which reads 'Washington state'."''

This probably refers to the fact that the Kaysen doll in overalls is standing on Washington state, which it's safe to assume is where Greenvale is located. But what does it all mean? The inverted peace symbols could either refer to A) the sites of the Red Seed Murders, which York has been assigned to investigate (photos of which appear on his laptop during his drive into Greenvale), or B) the locations of the victims of Kaysen's tree-growing method. I'm inclined to believe that the peace symbols mark the locations of the copycat murders that Kaysen has been influencing, like George, and the Kaysen dolls mark the spots where someone's energy has been stolen by the tree growing out of their stomach- a process that would require an "agent" of the Red Tree.

As for the dolls themselves, they might all be Kaysen, or it could be that the Red Tree agents all happen to look like fat men. It makes sense that Kaysen would be assigned a whole country to himself, though, which is why he adopts the guise of a travelling salesman.]]

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[[WMG: [[spoiler: Possible explanation for the fat men dolls on the map in the Red Room]]
Room]]]]
[[spoiler:The map in question is one of the observable objects in the Red Room in the Prologue chapter. It's a map of the United States with little upside-down peace symbols (The Mark of The Red Tree) stuck into it across various states. There's also a bunch of Kaysen dolls placed on the map, each wearing different clothing; although one of them is wearing the yellow plaid and overalls the player encounters him in later. Observing the map yields the following text:

text:]]

[[spoiler:
--> ''"A doll, shaped like a fat man. It has a plate on it which reads 'Washington state'."''

"'']]

[[spoiler:
This probably refers to the fact that the Kaysen doll in overalls is standing on Washington state, which state (which it's safe to assume is where Greenvale is located. located). But what does it all mean? The inverted peace Red Tree symbols could either refer to to:]]

[[spoiler:
A) the sites of the Red Seed Murders, which York has been assigned to investigate (photos of which appear on his laptop during his drive into Greenvale), or Greenvale).]]

[[spoiler: Or
B) the locations of the victims of Kaysen's tree-growing method. I'm inclined to believe that the peace symbols mark the locations of the copycat murders that Kaysen has been influencing, like George, and the Kaysen dolls mark the spots where someone's energy has been stolen by the tree growing out of their stomach- a process that would require an "agent" of the Red Tree.

Tree.]]

[[spoiler:
As for the dolls themselves, they might could all be Kaysen, or it could be that the Red Tree agents all happen to look like fat men. It makes sense that Kaysen would be assigned a whole country to himself, though, which is why he adopts the guise of a travelling salesman.]]
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[[WMG: Possible explanation for the fat men dolls on the map in the Red Room]]
[[spoiler:The map in question is one of the observable objects in the Red Room in the Prologue chapter. It's a map of the United States with little upside-down peace symbols (The Mark of The Red Tree) stuck into it across various states. There's also a bunch of Kaysen dolls placed on the map, each wearing different clothing; although one of them is wearing the yellow plaid and overalls the player encounters him in later. Observing the map yields the following text:

--> ''"A doll, shaped like a fat man. It has a plate on it which reads 'Washington state'."''

This probably refers to the fact that the Kaysen doll in overalls is standing on Washington state, which it's safe to assume is where Greenvale is located. But what does it all mean? The inverted peace symbols could either refer to A) the sites of the Red Seed Murders, which York has been assigned to investigate (photos of which appear on his laptop during his drive into Greenvale), or B) the locations of the victims of Kaysen's tree-growing method. I'm inclined to believe that the peace symbols mark the locations of the copycat murders that Kaysen has been influencing, like George, and the Kaysen dolls mark the spots where someone's energy has been stolen by the tree growing out of their stomach- a process that would require an "agent" of the Red Tree.

As for the dolls themselves, they might all be Kaysen, or it could be that the Red Tree agents all happen to look like fat men. It makes sense that Kaysen would be assigned a whole country to himself, though, which is why he adopts the guise of a travelling salesman.]]
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[[WMG: Ideas for a possible sequel]]
Since SWERY did say he wanted to do a sequel....
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** Swery ''did'' mention he was working on a sequel...

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[[WMG: [[spoiler: Kaysen Is just a [[Mook}}, and the worst has yet to come.]]
[[spoiler:This is something that I came up with after reading an interview with SWERY. When he was asked what Kaysen really was, his response was "An Agent of the Red Tree, Nothing more", he also mentioned that he wasn't the only one and that there are other agents with other similar jobs. This could mean that Kaysen is really just a minor agent of sorts (he did say he was a Messenger) and that the other agents (whom ever they may be) are of higher level. They could also have their own handlers (like Willie was with Kaysen) who relay orders to them from the Red World that they come from.

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[[WMG: [[spoiler: Kaysen Is just a [[Mook}}, Mook, and the worst has yet to come.]]
come]]]]
[[spoiler:This is something that I came up with after reading an interview with SWERY. When he was asked what Kaysen really was, his response was "An Agent of the Red Tree, Nothing more", he also mentioned that he wasn't the only one and that there are other agents with other similar jobs. This could mean that Kaysen is really just a minor agent of sorts (he did say he was a Messenger) and that the other agents (whom ever they may be) are of higher level. They could also have their own handlers (like Willie was with Kaysen) who relay orders to them from the Red World that they come from. from]].
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[[WMG: [[spoiler: Kaysen Is just a [[Mook}}, and the worst has yet to come.]]
[[spoiler:This is something that I came up with after reading an interview with SWERY. When he was asked what Kaysen really was, his response was "An Agent of the Red Tree, Nothing more", he also mentioned that he wasn't the only one and that there are other agents with other similar jobs. This could mean that Kaysen is really just a minor agent of sorts (he did say he was a Messenger) and that the other agents (whom ever they may be) are of higher level. They could also have their own handlers (like Willie was with Kaysen) who relay orders to them from the Red World that they come from.
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* [[spoiler: This is actually true and is hinted many times. Talking to the female owner of the Milk Barn will get Zach to say that York is together with Emily, with her replying that she doesn't know who York is. In the beggining of the game, George says that he has become the talk of the town due to his scar. York doesn't understand, as he scar is small. Zach's scar is very large though.]]

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* [[spoiler: This is actually true and is hinted many times. Talking to the female owner of the Milk Barn will get Zach to say that York is together with Emily, with her replying that she doesn't know who York is. In the beggining beginning of the game, George says that he has become the talk of the town due to his scar. York doesn't understand, as he scar is small. Zach's scar is very large though.]]
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* [[spoiler: This is actually true. Talking to the female owner of the Milk Barn will get Zach to say that York is together with Emily, with her replying that she doesn't know who York is.]]

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* [[spoiler: This is actually true.true and is hinted many times. Talking to the female owner of the Milk Barn will get Zach to say that York is together with Emily, with her replying that she doesn't know who York is. In the beggining of the game, George says that he has become the talk of the town due to his scar. York doesn't understand, as he scar is small. Zach's scar is very large though.]]

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