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* The opening cutscene clearly shows that the thing liberated from the portal wasn't his doppelganger but a Lovecraftian monster.

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* The opening cutscene clearly shows that the thing liberated from the portal wasn't his doppelganger doppelganger, but a Lovecraftian monster.



** [[spoiler:TheDragon theory is correct, in a sense. He, or at least a good imitation of him, is the VoiceOfSauron for the [[GodIsEvil Heart of Darkness]], though he's a PunchClockVillain only bound to his role by the Heart's power.]]

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** [[spoiler:TheDragon theory is correct, in a sense. He, or at least a good imitation of him, is the VoiceOfSauron MouthOfSauron for the [[GodIsEvil Heart of Darkness]], though he's a PunchClockVillain only bound to his role by the Heart's power.]]



[[spoiler:It's not a benign god by any means, but its core motivation is that of a MadScientist seeing how perfect it can make its creations before leaving the planet, destroying it in the process. It regards empathy as a positive trait, so when it was awoken by how [[ForTheEvulz despicable]] the Ancestor was, it [[EvenEvilHasStandards decided that it had gone wrong somewhere]] and decided to begin [[BodyHorror reformatting]] humanity into something a little less [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters vile]] than the species that produced him. When you fight it, it [[HiddenTestOfCharacter tests]] your heroes via the [[HeroicSacrifice Come To Your Maker]] move to see if they will give up their lives for the sake of humanity -- something even the scared ones submit to, [[RestoredMyFaithInHumanity which is why it allows you to kill its avatar and leave the planet alone for the next eon or so]]. But the trial, as Q would say, never ends -- eventually, someone will disgust it enough to wake it up and there will be no one to provide a counterpoint, or eventually it will decide the experiment has reached completion and destroy the planet...but not for a while yet.]]

to:

[[spoiler:It's not a benign god by any means, but its core motivation is that of a MadScientist seeing how perfect it can make its creations before leaving the planet, destroying it in the process. It regards empathy as a positive trait, so when it was awoken by how [[ForTheEvulz despicable]] the Ancestor was, it [[EvenEvilHasStandards decided that it had gone wrong somewhere]] and decided to begin [[BodyHorror reformatting]] humanity into something a little less [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters vile]] than the species that produced him. When you fight it, it [[HiddenTestOfCharacter [[SecretTestOfCharacter tests]] your heroes via the [[HeroicSacrifice Come To Unto Your Maker]] move to see if they will give up their lives for the sake of humanity -- something even the scared ones submit to, [[RestoredMyFaithInHumanity which is why it allows you to kill its avatar and leave the planet alone for the next eon or so]]. But the trial, as Q would say, never ends -- eventually, someone will disgust it enough to wake it up and there will be no one to provide a counterpoint, or eventually it will decide the experiment has reached completion and destroy the planet... but not for a while yet.]]



* The Groundskeeper praying that the Gods take him away from the Hamlet. Considering that the heroes can leave seeming at will to go on "vision quests" or what-have-you and the Heir is apparently powerless to retrieve them, there is no reason why the Groundskeeper can't leave on his own.

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* The Groundskeeper praying that the Gods take him away from the Hamlet. Considering that the heroes can leave seeming seemingly at will to go on "vision quests" or what-have-you and the Heir is apparently powerless to retrieve them, there is no reason why the Groundskeeper can't leave on his own.



** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler:Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.

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** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler:Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never ending, never changing never-ending, never-changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.



If the Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and letting [[spoiler:the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler:[[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy the Heart of Darkness.]]]]

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If the Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and letting [[spoiler:the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler:[[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy the Heart of Darkness.]]]]
Darkness]]]].



In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the attempt of psyching The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]

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In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it [[spoiler:it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the an attempt of psyching to psyche The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]



[[spoiler:You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this, it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]

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[[spoiler:You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this, it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]



He's actually a gym teacher, and the battle shown in his comic is simply a game of capture the flag that went horribly, horribly wrong.

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He's actually a gym teacher, and the battle shown in his comic is simply a game of capture the flag that [[GoneHorriblyWrong went horribly, horribly wrong.
horribly]], [[DeadlyGame horribly]] [[GoneHorriblyWrong wrong]].



His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" notice leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"

to:

His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads heads, and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" notice leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"



The Crimson Curse is regarded as a tragic but morally neutral sickness that does not impinge the moral character of those with it, ergo why the Caretaker just starts stocking Blood vials when he realizes vampires are about-vampires who haven't gone all bug hybrid yet are simply victims of a plague, and even most hybrids are stuck in a delusional state, more pitied than feared (the [[AristocratsAreEvil Crimson Court]] happens to have been evil ''before'' the Countess infected them, and thus they combine their already vicious attitudes with actual biological need for blood). The Fanatic, on the other hand, is the Light Church's equivalent of a radicalized terrorist-he may have a sympathetic past, but he's channeled his anger into a desire for destruction that disgusts pretty much everyone who doesn't share his cruel creed.

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The Crimson Curse is regarded as a tragic but morally neutral sickness that does not impinge the moral character of those with it, ergo why the Caretaker just starts stocking Blood vials when he realizes vampires are about-vampires about -- vampires who haven't gone all bug hybrid yet are simply victims of a plague, and even most hybrids are stuck in a delusional state, more pitied than feared (the [[AristocratsAreEvil Crimson Court]] happens to have been evil ''before'' the Countess infected them, and thus they combine their already vicious attitudes with an actual biological need for blood). The Fanatic, on the other hand, is the Light Church's equivalent of a radicalized terrorist-he terrorist -- he may have a sympathetic past, but he's channeled his anger into a desire for destruction that disgusts pretty much everyone who doesn't share his cruel creed.



While the other Crimson Court humanoids are in various stages of mosquito mutation, the Countess herself can maintain a fully human appearance (As evidenced in the cutscenes) and during her boss fight will alternate between the two forms at will.

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While the other Crimson Court humanoids are in various stages of mosquito mutation, the Countess herself can maintain a fully human appearance (As (as evidenced in the cutscenes) and during her boss fight will alternate between the two forms at will.
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The Crimson Curse is regarded as a tragic but morally neutral sickness that does not impinge the moral character of those with it, ergo why the Caretaker just starts stocking Blood vials when he realizes vampires are about-vampires who haven't gone all bug hybrid yet are simply victims of a plague, and even most hybrids are stuck in a delusional state, more pitied than feared (the [[AristocratsAreEvil Crimson Court]] happens to have been evil ''before'' the Countess infected them, and thus they combine their already vicious attitudes with actual biological need for blood). The Fanatic, on the other hand, is the Light Church's equivalent of a radicalized terrorist-he may have a sympathetic past, but he's channeled his anger into a desire for destruction that disgusts pretty much everyone who doesn't share his cruel creed.

to:

The Crimson Curse is regarded as a tragic but morally neutral sickness that does not impinge the moral character of those with it, ergo why the Caretaker just starts stocking Blood vials when he realizes vampires are about-vampires who haven't gone all bug hybrid yet are simply victims of a plague, and even most hybrids are stuck in a delusional state, more pitied than feared (the [[AristocratsAreEvil Crimson Court]] happens to have been evil ''before'' the Countess infected them, and thus they combine their already vicious attitudes with actual biological need for blood). The Fanatic, on the other hand, is the Light Church's equivalent of a radicalized terrorist-he may have a sympathetic past, but he's channeled his anger into a desire for destruction that disgusts pretty much everyone who doesn't share his cruel creed.creed.

[[WMG: The Countess is a different kind of vampire than the rest of the Crimson Court]]
While the other Crimson Court humanoids are in various stages of mosquito mutation, the Countess herself can maintain a fully human appearance (As evidenced in the cutscenes) and during her boss fight will alternate between the two forms at will.

Drinking a vampire's blood doesn't seem to be the best way to become one.
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His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" notice leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"

to:

His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" notice leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"DIFFERENCE!"

[[WMG: The Fanatic is this world's equivalent of a hate criminal]]
The Crimson Curse is regarded as a tragic but morally neutral sickness that does not impinge the moral character of those with it, ergo why the Caretaker just starts stocking Blood vials when he realizes vampires are about-vampires who haven't gone all bug hybrid yet are simply victims of a plague, and even most hybrids are stuck in a delusional state, more pitied than feared (the [[AristocratsAreEvil Crimson Court]] happens to have been evil ''before'' the Countess infected them, and thus they combine their already vicious attitudes with actual biological need for blood). The Fanatic, on the other hand, is the Light Church's equivalent of a radicalized terrorist-he may have a sympathetic past, but he's channeled his anger into a desire for destruction that disgusts pretty much everyone who doesn't share his cruel creed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"

to:

His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" notice leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


He's actually a gym teacher, and the battle shown in his comic is simply a game of capture the flag that went horribly, horribly wrong.

to:

He's actually a gym teacher, and the battle shown in his comic is simply a game of capture the flag that went horribly, horribly wrong.wrong.

[[WMG: The Bounty Hunter yearns to be a hero]]
His origin comic will show him do the stuff we know he would in a CrapsackWorld of horrific darkness and violence, namely finding people on wanted posters, collecting their severed heads and also cutting off hands to turn in for added gold at the end of the day. He'll ignore the anger and disdain of the populace as he leaves the town hall where he collects his salary, but will eagerly rip off and read avidly a "Help Wanted!" leading him to take the stagecoach to the Hamlet of the Ancestor. During the ride, there will be focus on the recruitment poster the Bounty Hunter is still fixated upon, specifically the bottom part that reads "BE A HERO! MAKE A DIFFERENCE!"
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The reason will be because bats are one of the many natural predators of mosquitoes, and considering much of imagery involving the vampires that will be appearing in the upcoming DLC so far involve mosquitoes heavily, and the nature of both animals being mostly nocturnal (mosquitoes become more active at night, [[AndKnowingIsHalfTheBattle by the way]]), it would seem fitting that a man dedicated to purging the parasite based undead would take up a creature that preys upon their symbolic animal. It would also fittingly ironic on a meta level as well, as in traditional media it is usually bats that are associated with vampires, and in this game we have a zealous man of the cloth taking up an animal that, in most other depictions and franchises, he would be completely against.

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The reason will be because bats are one of the many natural predators of mosquitoes, and considering much of imagery involving the vampires that will be appearing in the upcoming DLC so far involve mosquitoes heavily, and the nature of both animals being mostly nocturnal (mosquitoes become more active at night, [[AndKnowingIsHalfTheBattle by the way]]), it would seem fitting that a man dedicated to purging the parasite based undead would take up a creature that preys upon their symbolic animal. It would also fittingly ironic on a meta level as well, as in traditional media it is usually bats that are associated with vampires, and in this game we have a zealous man of the cloth taking up an animal that, in most other depictions and franchises, he would be completely against.against.

[[WMG: The Man-at-Arms isn't actually a soldier.]]
He's actually a gym teacher, and the battle shown in his comic is simply a game of capture the flag that went horribly, horribly wrong.
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None


The reason will be because bats are one of the many natural predators of mosquitoes, and considering much of imagery involving the vampires that will be appearing in the upcoming DLC so far involve mosquitoes heavily, and the nature of both animals being mostly nocturnal (mosquitoes become more active at night, [[AndTheMoreYouKnow by the way]]), it would seem fitting that a man dedicated to purging the parasite based undead would take up a creature that preys upon their symbolic animal. It would also fittingly ironic on a meta level as well, as in traditional media it is usually bats that are associated with vampires, and in this game we have a zealous man of the cloth taking up an animal that, in most other depictions and franchises, he would be completely against.

to:

The reason will be because bats are one of the many natural predators of mosquitoes, and considering much of imagery involving the vampires that will be appearing in the upcoming DLC so far involve mosquitoes heavily, and the nature of both animals being mostly nocturnal (mosquitoes become more active at night, [[AndTheMoreYouKnow [[AndKnowingIsHalfTheBattle by the way]]), it would seem fitting that a man dedicated to purging the parasite based undead would take up a creature that preys upon their symbolic animal. It would also fittingly ironic on a meta level as well, as in traditional media it is usually bats that are associated with vampires, and in this game we have a zealous man of the cloth taking up an animal that, in most other depictions and franchises, he would be completely against.
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* [[spoiler:In addition to explaining how the Heir/Player can somehow sway which exact heroes it insta-kills (the Heart could just pick 2 heroes randomly or let the player choose just one hero and [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo randomly pick the other sacrifice]]), the Heir/Player being or merely being a part of the Heart of Darkness would explain why the Heart [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim doesn't just kill the Heir]] and throw the Hamlet and heroes in chaos.]]

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* [[spoiler:In addition to explaining how the Heir/Player can somehow sway which exact heroes it insta-kills (the Heart could just pick 2 heroes randomly or let the player choose just one hero and [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo randomly pick the other sacrifice]]), the Heir/Player being or merely being a part of the Heart of Darkness would explain why the Heart [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim doesn't just kill the Heir]] and throw the Hamlet and heroes in chaos.]]]]

[[WMG: The Fanatic's symbolic animal will be Bats]]
The reason will be because bats are one of the many natural predators of mosquitoes, and considering much of imagery involving the vampires that will be appearing in the upcoming DLC so far involve mosquitoes heavily, and the nature of both animals being mostly nocturnal (mosquitoes become more active at night, [[AndTheMoreYouKnow by the way]]), it would seem fitting that a man dedicated to purging the parasite based undead would take up a creature that preys upon their symbolic animal. It would also fittingly ironic on a meta level as well, as in traditional media it is usually bats that are associated with vampires, and in this game we have a zealous man of the cloth taking up an animal that, in most other depictions and franchises, he would be completely against.
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* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed in a roundabout way: The first phases of the final involves fighting copies of the ancestor.]]

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* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed in a roundabout way: The first phases of the final battle involves fighting copies of the ancestor.]]



The Ancestor was involved in very shady business with dark magic and necromancy. There aren't any proof that the letter written during the opening was sincere. Making a relative of him inheriting the Darkest Estate could have been a twisted plan to lure some sacrifice fodder right into the hands of the cultists, as well as getting rid of potential [[SpannerInTheWorks Spanners In The Works]] (the Prophet, the Hag, the bandits...) while expecting the Darkest Estate's hazards and dwellers be tough enough to prevent the heroes to gain control of the domain. The Ancestor may very well be still alive, waiting in the deepest pit of the Darkest Dungeon, and serving as the FinalBoss.

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The Ancestor was involved in very shady business with dark magic and necromancy. There aren't isn't any proof that the letter written during the opening was sincere. Making a relative of him inheriting the Darkest Estate could have been a twisted plan to lure some sacrifice fodder right into the hands of the cultists, as well as getting rid of potential [[SpannerInTheWorks Spanners In The Works]] (the Prophet, the Hag, the bandits...) while expecting the Darkest Estate's hazards and dwellers to be tough enough to prevent the heroes to gain from gaining control of the domain. The Ancestor may very well be still alive, waiting in the deepest pit of the Darkest Dungeon, and serving as the FinalBoss.



Yes, he does shoot himself at the end of the opening cutscene, but the man decided to end his life in his manor, where the most horrific abominations in the game lurk. Should he have died in the manor, it's very likely that his body was taken by the things from the portal to revive and/or corrupt it. A necrotic, tormented version of The Ancestor will serve as a boss in the Darkest Dungeon

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Yes, he does shoot himself at the end of the opening cutscene, but the man decided to end his life in his manor, where the most horrific abominations in the game lurk. Should he have died in the manor, it's very likely that his body was taken by the things from the portal to revive and/or corrupt it. A necrotic, tormented version of The Ancestor will serve as a boss in the Darkest DungeonDungeon.



[[WMG: The Leper's broken sword was the sword he once wielded as a king which coincidentally broke around the same time he developed leprosy]]

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[[WMG: The Leper's broken sword was the sword he once wielded as a king king, which coincidentally broke around the same time he developed leprosy]]leprosy.]]



Consider the Medieval/Renaissance setting of the game, it can be infer from this [[http://www.darkestdungeon.com/darkest-dungeon-presents-the-arbalest/ comic]] that the [[TorchesAndPitchforks mobs]] were motivated by racism against Arbalest's family.

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Consider Considering the Medieval/Renaissance setting of the game, it can be infer inferred from this [[http://www.darkestdungeon.com/darkest-dungeon-presents-the-arbalest/ comic]] that the [[TorchesAndPitchforks mobs]] were motivated by racism against Arbalest's family.



[[spoiler:It's not a benign god by any means, but its core motivation is that of a MadScientist seeing how perfect it can make its creations before leaving the planet, destroying it in the process. It regards empathy as a positive trait, so when it was awoken by how [[ForTheEvulz despicable]] the Ancestor was, it [[EvenEvilHasStandards decided that it had gone wrong somewhere]] and decided to begin [[BodyHorror reformatting]] humanity into something a little less [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters vile]] than the species that produced him. When you fight it, it [[HiddenTestOfCharacter tests]] your heroes via the [[HeroicSacrifice Come To Your Maker]] move to see if they will give up their lives for the sake of humanity-something even the scared ones submit to, [[RestoredMyFaithInHumanity which is why it allows you to kill its avatar and leave the planet alone for the next eon or so]]. But the trial, as Q would say, never ends-eventually, someone will disgust it enough to wake it up and there will be no one to provide a counterpoint, or eventually it will decide the experiment has reached completion and destroy the planet...but not for a while yet.]]

to:

[[spoiler:It's not a benign god by any means, but its core motivation is that of a MadScientist seeing how perfect it can make its creations before leaving the planet, destroying it in the process. It regards empathy as a positive trait, so when it was awoken by how [[ForTheEvulz despicable]] the Ancestor was, it [[EvenEvilHasStandards decided that it had gone wrong somewhere]] and decided to begin [[BodyHorror reformatting]] humanity into something a little less [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters vile]] than the species that produced him. When you fight it, it [[HiddenTestOfCharacter tests]] your heroes via the [[HeroicSacrifice Come To Your Maker]] move to see if they will give up their lives for the sake of humanity-something humanity -- something even the scared ones submit to, [[RestoredMyFaithInHumanity which is why it allows you to kill its avatar and leave the planet alone for the next eon or so]]. But the trial, as Q would say, never ends-eventually, ends -- eventually, someone will disgust it enough to wake it up and there will be no one to provide a counterpoint, or eventually it will decide the experiment has reached completion and destroy the planet...but not for a while yet.]]



* [[spoiler: In NG+, any hero who interacts with the transcendent terror during the tutorial will instantly get a wagonload of stress while babbling, "Time- an endless cycle! Iä! Iäää!"]]

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* [[spoiler: In [[spoiler:In NG+, any hero who interacts with the transcendent terror during the tutorial will instantly get a wagonload of stress while babbling, "Time- "Time -- an endless cycle! Iä! Iäää!"]]



* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever and never quit their positions, regardless how bad the dungeons or town become. [[ClosedCircle There may not be any other place to go.]]
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises up the Hamlet. Why should they - [[RippleProofMemory he'll just destroy the Hamlet latter on.]] ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Tavern even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])

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* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever and never quit their positions, regardless of how bad the dungeons or town become. [[ClosedCircle There may not be any other place to go.]]
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises raises up the Hamlet. Why should they - -- [[RippleProofMemory he'll just destroy the Hamlet latter later on.]] ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Tavern even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])



* One piece of narration mentions that Hamlet is isolated. No matter how well the Heir clears the Old Road, this detail never changes. Also, despite this isolation, the Groundskeeper always finds new heroes and the Sanitarium never runs out of medicines.

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* One piece of narration mentions that the Hamlet is isolated. No matter how well the Heir clears the Old Road, this detail never changes. Also, despite this isolation, the Groundskeeper always finds new heroes and the Sanitarium never runs out of medicines.






Lord Aldia is removed from the cycle, and yet still as attached to it as any mortal is. Undying and eternal he gets to watch the cycle repeat forever. Aldia attempts to influence things from the background in each successive cycle to find a way to break it for good (such as artificially prolonging the Age of Fire or shortening it), but ends up losing a bit of himself as well until he becomes the eldritch entity we find at the end. What we see of the final boss is just basically the degenerate form of him, stripped almost completely down. Eventually after a few more cycles he'll be little more than a pulsing madness.

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Lord Aldia is removed from the cycle, and yet still as attached to it as any mortal is. Undying and eternal eternal, he gets to watch the cycle repeat forever. Aldia attempts to influence things from the background in each successive cycle to find a way to break it for good (such as artificially prolonging the Age of Fire or shortening it), but ends up losing a bit of himself as well until he becomes the eldritch entity we find at the end. What we see of the final boss is just basically the degenerate form of him, stripped almost completely down. Eventually Eventually, after a few more cycles he'll be little more than a pulsing madness.



** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.

to:

** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart [[spoiler:Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.



Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned in its description how it looks exactly like you, despite it being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, the Ancestor really isn't in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is anyone remotely human.]] Now if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of the Heir, what exactly is the Heir?

If the Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and letting [[spoiler: the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy the Heart of Darkness.]]]]

to:

Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned in its description how it looks exactly like you, despite it being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, the Ancestor really isn't in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is anyone remotely human.]] Now Now, if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of the Heir, what exactly is the Heir?

If the Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and letting [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding [[spoiler:[[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy the Heart of Darkness.]]]]



* Some suspect that the [[spoiler: hallucinations brought about after breaching the first level of the Darkest Dungeon were not mere illusions, but [[RealAfterAll actually what the world looks like.]] Maybe the townspeople, heroes, and the Heir (if the portrait really does show the Heir and not the Ancestor) [[TomatoInTheMirror aren't as human as first assumed.]]]]

to:

* Some suspect that the [[spoiler: hallucinations [[spoiler:hallucinations brought about after breaching the first level of the Darkest Dungeon were not mere illusions, but [[RealAfterAll actually what the world looks like.]] Maybe the townspeople, heroes, and the Heir (if the portrait really does show the Heir and not the Ancestor) [[TomatoInTheMirror aren't as human as first assumed.]]]]



In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the attempt of psyching The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]

to:

In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the attempt of psyching The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]



In one of his character descriptions, The Houndmaster was described as an ex-lawman and in one of his speech bubbles whenever he lands a crit, he can say that "Mercy is for the courts!" Why would he say that? Maybe he was granted some level of mercy by a courtroom that screwed him over? That would explain why he came to the Hamlet, due to disillusionment.
* Alternately, The Houndmaster is [[VideoGames/DeadtoRights Jack Slate]].

to:

In one of his character descriptions, The Houndmaster was described as an ex-lawman ex-lawman, and in one of his speech bubbles whenever he lands a crit, he can say that "Mercy is for the courts!" Why would he say that? Maybe he was granted some level of mercy by a courtroom that screwed him over? That would explain why he came to the Hamlet, due to disillusionment.
* Alternately, The Houndmaster is [[VideoGames/DeadtoRights [[VideoGames/DeadToRights Jack Slate]].



While irrational the Plague Doctor will rant about "tiny creatures smaller than grains of sand" and refer to others as germs. An irrational Houndsmaster may insist that their hound was the first creature to orbit the terrestrial sphere. These are not mere ItWillNeverCatchOn jokes but actual glimpses of their future.

[[WMG: [[spoiler: You, the player, are the Heart of Darkness.]]]]
[[spoiler: You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]
* [[spoiler: In addition to explaining how the Heir/Player can somehow sway which exact heroes it insta-kills (the Heart could just pick 2 heroes randomly or let the player choose just one hero and [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo randomly pick the other sacrifice]]), the Heir/Player being or merely being apart of the Heart of Darkness would explain why the Heart [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim doesn't just kill the Heir]] and throw the Hamlet and heroes in chaos.]]

to:

While irrational irrational, the Plague Doctor will rant about "tiny creatures smaller than grains of sand" and refer to others as germs. An irrational Houndsmaster may insist that their hound was the first creature to orbit the terrestrial sphere. These are not mere ItWillNeverCatchOn jokes jokes, but actual glimpses of their future.

[[WMG: [[spoiler: You, [[spoiler:You, the player, are the Heart of Darkness.]]]]
[[spoiler: You, [[spoiler:You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this this, it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]
* [[spoiler: In [[spoiler:In addition to explaining how the Heir/Player can somehow sway which exact heroes it insta-kills (the Heart could just pick 2 heroes randomly or let the player choose just one hero and [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo randomly pick the other sacrifice]]), the Heir/Player being or merely being apart a part of the Heart of Darkness would explain why the Heart [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim doesn't just kill the Heir]] and throw the Hamlet and heroes in chaos.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[spoiler: You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]

to:

[[spoiler: You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]
* [[spoiler: In addition to explaining how the Heir/Player can somehow sway which exact heroes it insta-kills (the Heart could just pick 2 heroes randomly or let the player choose just one hero and [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo randomly pick the other sacrifice]]), the Heir/Player being or merely being apart of the Heart of Darkness would explain why the Heart [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim doesn't just kill the Heir]] and throw the Hamlet and heroes in chaos.
]]
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None

Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: Becoming Irrational leads to being a MadOracle.]]
While irrational the Plague Doctor will rant about "tiny creatures smaller than grains of sand" and refer to others as germs. An irrational Houndsmaster may insist that their hound was the first creature to orbit the terrestrial sphere. These are not mere ItWillNeverCatchOn jokes but actual glimpses of their future.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed in a roundabout way: The first phases of the final involves fighting copies of the ancestor.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[WMG: You, the player, are the Heart of Darkness.]]
You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies.

to:

[[WMG: [[spoiler: You, the player, are the Heart of Darkness.]]
]]]]
[[spoiler:
You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies. ]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Why not WMG?


* Alternately, The Houndmaster is [[VideoGames/DeadtoRights Jack Slate]].

to:

* Alternately, The Houndmaster is [[VideoGames/DeadtoRights Jack Slate]].Slate]].

[[WMG: You, the player, are the Heart of Darkness.]]
You, the player, are responsible for the destruction of the world. No matter how hard you fight with your characters, no matter how many beasts you slay, their world will end when you uninstall the game, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. The reason that once you delve into the Darkest Dungeon that the humans in the game start resembling the monsters and gore is because they really are the same. They are both lines of code dictated to preform tasks. You are their maker. You created them when you started a save file, and because of this it is you who decides which one of the heroes dies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


In one of his character descriptions, The Houndmaster was described as an ex-lawman and in one of his speech bubbles whenever he lands a crit, he can say that "Mercy is for the courts!" Why would he say that? Maybe he was granted some level of mercy by a courtroom that screwed him over? That would explain why he came to the Hamlet, due to disillusionment.

to:

In one of his character descriptions, The Houndmaster was described as an ex-lawman and in one of his speech bubbles whenever he lands a crit, he can say that "Mercy is for the courts!" Why would he say that? Maybe he was granted some level of mercy by a courtroom that screwed him over? That would explain why he came to the Hamlet, due to disillusionment.disillusionment.
* Alternately, The Houndmaster is [[VideoGames/DeadtoRights Jack Slate]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Fixed spelling error in Fridge Brilliance link.


* The GroundhogDayLoop WMG also suggests that the townspeople remember the various loops, [[FridgeBrillance probably because, unlike the heroes and the Heir, the townspeople cannot die during the game.]] Any lingering faith in the Heir would explain why the townspeople just don't give up, failure after failure. Alternatively, [[TheDeterminator the Heir's repeated attempts]] inspire them to keep trying.

to:

* The GroundhogDayLoop WMG also suggests that the townspeople remember the various loops, [[FridgeBrillance [[FridgeBrilliance probably because, unlike the heroes and the Heir, the townspeople cannot die during the game.]] Any lingering faith in the Heir would explain why the townspeople just don't give up, failure after failure. Alternatively, [[TheDeterminator the Heir's repeated attempts]] inspire them to keep trying.

Added: 339

Changed: 60

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
... The vagueness of "they" in that sentience irritated me. Please feel free to change it back.






* The heroes and the Heir do not seem to remember anything about the loops. The townspeople, however, do appear to remember what happened during the loops. Then again, the heroes and the Heir are able to die during the game, but the townspeople (at least the major ones, anyway) always survive. Maybe death robs one's memory of the cycles.



Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned in its description how it looks exactly like you, despite being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, the Ancestor really isn't in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is it anyone remotely human.]] Now if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of the Heir, what exactly is the Heir?

If The Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and letting [[spoiler: the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy the Heart of Darkness.]]]]

Hell, considering the art style, the Heir might be the lovecraftian answer to [[ComicBook/{{Hellboy}} Hellboy]], all things considered: They may not be human, but they will punch out gods to protect humanity.

to:

Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned in its description how it looks exactly like you, despite it being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, the Ancestor really isn't in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is it anyone remotely human.]] Now if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of the Heir, what exactly is the Heir?

If The the Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and letting [[spoiler: the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy the Heart of Darkness.]]]]

Hell, considering the art style, the Heir might be the lovecraftian answer to [[ComicBook/{{Hellboy}} Hellboy]], all things considered: They neither the Heir nor Hellboy may not be human, but they will punch out gods to protect humanity.



* Some suspect that the [[spoiler: hallucinations brought about after breaching the first level of the Darkest Dungeon were not mere illusions, but [[RealAfterAll actually what the world looks like.]] Maybe the townspeople, heroes, and the Heir (if the portrait really does show the Heir and not the Ancestor) aren't as human as first assumed.]]

to:

* Some suspect that the [[spoiler: hallucinations brought about after breaching the first level of the Darkest Dungeon were not mere illusions, but [[RealAfterAll actually what the world looks like.]] Maybe the townspeople, heroes, and the Heir (if the portrait really does show the Heir and not the Ancestor) [[TomatoInTheMirror aren't as human as first assumed.]]
]]]]

Added: 750

Changed: 58

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned by its description and how it looks exactly like you, despite being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, it really isn't the Ancestor that's in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is it anyone remotely human.]] Now if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of The Heir, what exactly is The Heir?

If The Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that The Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and let [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], The Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy The Heart of Darkness.]]]]

Hell, considering the art style, The Heir might be the lovecraftian answer to [[ComicBook/{{Hellboy}} Hellboy]], all things considered: They may not be human, but they will punch out gods to protect humanity.

to:

Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned by in its description and how it looks exactly like you, despite being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, it the Ancestor really isn't the Ancestor that's in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is it anyone remotely human.]] Now if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of The the Heir, what exactly is The the Heir?

If The Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that The the Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and let letting [[spoiler: The the Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], The the Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy The the Heart of Darkness.]]]]

Hell, considering the art style, The the Heir might be the lovecraftian answer to [[ComicBook/{{Hellboy}} Hellboy]], all things considered: They may not be human, but they will punch out gods to protect humanity.
humanity.

* The GroundhogDayLoop WMG also suggests that the townspeople remember the various loops, [[FridgeBrillance probably because, unlike the heroes and the Heir, the townspeople cannot die during the game.]] Any lingering faith in the Heir would explain why the townspeople just don't give up, failure after failure. Alternatively, [[TheDeterminator the Heir's repeated attempts]] inspire them to keep trying.
* Some suspect that the [[spoiler: hallucinations brought about after breaching the first level of the Darkest Dungeon were not mere illusions, but [[RealAfterAll actually what the world looks like.]] Maybe the townspeople, heroes, and the Heir (if the portrait really does show the Heir and not the Ancestor) aren't as human as first assumed.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the attempt of psyching The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]

to:

In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the attempt of psyching The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]]]

[[WMG: The Houndmaster was screwed over by his [[CorruptCops less moral colleagues]] in his origin story.]]
In one of his character descriptions, The Houndmaster was described as an ex-lawman and in one of his speech bubbles whenever he lands a crit, he can say that "Mercy is for the courts!" Why would he say that? Maybe he was granted some level of mercy by a courtroom that screwed him over? That would explain why he came to the Hamlet, due to disillusionment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
New Wild Mass Guesses


** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.

to:

** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.well.

[[WMG: The Heir may not be entirely human.]]
Take a closer look at the Ancestor's Portrait again. It's already been mentioned by its description and how it looks exactly like you, despite being a hundred years old. However, once you look at the portrait's icon in question, it really isn't the Ancestor that's in the frame... [[HumanoidAbomination nor is it anyone remotely human.]] Now if the portrait is supposed to present a picture of The Heir, what exactly is The Heir?

If The Heir is indeed a HumanoidAbomination, then that might actually have an impact on the GroundhogDayLoop WMG. Consider how a lot of the eldritch entities you face have some potent magic. Who's to say that The Heir doesn't either? Instead of letting time pass normally and let [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness [[DownerEnding win like the epilogue suggests]]]], The Heir simply goes back in time to improve his strategy in hopes of eventually figuring out a way to [[spoiler: [[EarnYourHappyEnding permanently destroy The Heart of Darkness.]]]]

Hell, considering the art style, The Heir might be the lovecraftian answer to [[ComicBook/{{Hellboy}} Hellboy]], all things considered: They may not be human, but they will punch out gods to protect humanity.

[[WMG: The ending [[spoiler:might actually be a bunch of crock.]]]]
In TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon, it is revealed that [[spoiler:The Heart of Darkness took on the guise of The Ancestor, voice and all. He even uses this form in the first stage of his fight.]] In the ending, The Ancestor's narration declares that [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness will win anyways, with all of your victories being for naught and that you commit suicide.]] But remember how [[spoiler: it used The Ancestor's form?]] For all we know, [[spoiler: The Heart of Darkness might just be throwing in a few false dying words in the attempt of psyching The Heir out. The Transcendent Terror curio that pops up at the beginning of a game just might be an EasterEgg from the Red Hook crew made to mess with the player and fuel EpilepticTrees.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[FreezeFrameBonus The Heir in the stagecoach after the fall of the hamlet in the epilogue.]]
* [[spoiler: In NG+ if your heroes interact with the trascendent terror, one of them will instantly get a wagonload of stress while babbling "Time- an endless cycle! Iä! Iäää!]]

to:

* [[FreezeFrameBonus The Heir in the stagecoach after the fall of the hamlet Hamlet in the epilogue.]]
* [[spoiler: In NG+ if your heroes interact NG+, any hero who interacts with the trascendent terror, one of them transcendent terror during the tutorial will instantly get a wagonload of stress while babbling babbling, "Time- an endless cycle! Iä! Iäää!]]Iäää!"]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* [[spoiler: In NG+ if your heroes interact with the trascendent terror, one of them will instantly get a wagonload of stress while babbling "Time- an endless cycle! Iä! Iäää!]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never-ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.

to:

** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never-ending, never ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The hamlet going into the same state of disrepair as the beginning of the game in the epilogue.

to:

* The hamlet going Hamlet falling into the same exact state of disrepair as the beginning of the game in the epilogue.



* The Groundskeeper praying that the Gods take him away from the hamlet. Considering that the heroes can leave seeming at will to go on "vision quests" or what-have-you and the Heir is apparently powerless to retrieve them, there is no reason why the Groundskeeper can't leave on his own.
* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever and never quit their positions, despite how bad the dungeons or town become. [[ClosedCircle There may not be any other place to go.]]
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises up the hamlet. Why should they - [[RippleProofMemory he'll just destroy the hamlet latter on.]] ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Tavern even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])

to:

* The Groundskeeper praying that the Gods take him away from the hamlet.Hamlet. Considering that the heroes can leave seeming at will to go on "vision quests" or what-have-you and the Heir is apparently powerless to retrieve them, there is no reason why the Groundskeeper can't leave on his own.
* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever and never quit their positions, despite regardless how bad the dungeons or town become. [[ClosedCircle There may not be any other place to go.]]
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises up the hamlet. Hamlet. Why should they - [[RippleProofMemory he'll just destroy the hamlet Hamlet latter on.]] ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Tavern even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])



* One piece of narration mentions that hamlet is isolated. No matter how well the Heir clears the Old Road, this detail never changes. Also, despite this isolation, the Groundskeeper always finds new heroes.

The above reveals, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.]]

to:

* One piece of narration mentions that hamlet Hamlet is isolated. No matter how well the Heir clears the Old Road, this detail never changes. Also, despite this isolation, the Groundskeeper always finds new heroes.

heroes and the Sanitarium never runs out of medicines.
* The Sanitarium can cure any disease or mental disorder (or enforce any desired trait) by the end of a week (except leprosy). How? [[RippleProofMemory They've seen all of them before many, many times and know how to cure them all efficiently and quickly.]]

The above reveals, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet Hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.]]

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Changed: 50

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* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever and never quit their positions, despite how bad the dungeons or town become. There may not be any other place to go.

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* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever and never quit their positions, despite how bad the dungeons or town become. [[ClosedCircle There may not be any other place to go.]]




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* Then how does she get syphilis?



The original adventurers died long ago, but their spirits still remain bound to the world. [[spoiler:The Heart's influence]] is drawing these wayward souls to it, granting them (multiple) new forms to inhabit, and is feeding on their continued torment and suffering as they are sent into its dungeons again and again. That no one else seems to notice or care is a symptom of the spreading madness. Tying into the above GroundhogDayLoop WMG, this might apply to the "Heir" as well, actually an incarnation of the Ancestor himself. [[spoiler:The Heart]] has trapped a bunch of poor souls in a vicious cycle of suffering and bloodshed to nourish its premature awakening.

to:

The original adventurers died long ago, but their spirits still remain bound to the world. [[spoiler:The Heart's influence]] is drawing these wayward souls to it, granting them (multiple) new forms to inhabit, and is feeding on their continued torment and suffering as they are sent into its dungeons again and again. That no one else seems to notice or care is a symptom of the spreading madness. Tying into the above GroundhogDayLoop WMG, this might apply to the "Heir" as well, actually an incarnation of the Ancestor himself. [[spoiler:The Heart]] has trapped a bunch of poor souls in a vicious cycle of suffering and bloodshed to nourish its premature awakening.awakening.
** This cycle could be how the [[spoiler: Heart of Darkness]] intends to fuel its final awakening. All of the so-called "premature awakenings" are actually failed attempts at fully waking up. Also, the never-ending, never changing stream of monsters, such as the cultists (which must have a ''huge'' adult population, given how often the Heir's forces can take them out) and skeletons (which should dwindle in number once the necromancers are gone), must be locked within this loop as well.
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She just goes in there and destresses by talking to/preaching at whomever she hired.

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She just goes in there and destresses by talking to/preaching at whomever she hired.hired.

[[WMG: The endless supply of Heroes are actually incarnations of the original people shown in the comics]]
The original adventurers died long ago, but their spirits still remain bound to the world. [[spoiler:The Heart's influence]] is drawing these wayward souls to it, granting them (multiple) new forms to inhabit, and is feeding on their continued torment and suffering as they are sent into its dungeons again and again. That no one else seems to notice or care is a symptom of the spreading madness. Tying into the above GroundhogDayLoop WMG, this might apply to the "Heir" as well, actually an incarnation of the Ancestor himself. [[spoiler:The Heart]] has trapped a bunch of poor souls in a vicious cycle of suffering and bloodshed to nourish its premature awakening.
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Aldia is not the creator, although he probably guided the formation of the world as it is in Darkest Dungeon, and no matter his machinations or the resolve and courage of the heroes... eventually the light will fade once again and only embers shall remain.

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Aldia is not the creator, although he probably guided the formation of the world as it is in Darkest Dungeon, and no matter his machinations or the resolve and courage of the heroes... eventually the light will fade once again and only embers shall remain.remain.

[[WMG: The Vestal doesn't really use the brothel.]]
She just goes in there and destresses by talking to/preaching at whomever she hired.
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The above reveals, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.]]

to:

The above reveals, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.]]]]

[[WMG: The Final Boss is actually the [[Franchise/DarkSouls Scholar of the First Sin]]]]
Lord Aldia is removed from the cycle, and yet still as attached to it as any mortal is. Undying and eternal he gets to watch the cycle repeat forever. Aldia attempts to influence things from the background in each successive cycle to find a way to break it for good (such as artificially prolonging the Age of Fire or shortening it), but ends up losing a bit of himself as well until he becomes the eldritch entity we find at the end. What we see of the final boss is just basically the degenerate form of him, stripped almost completely down. Eventually after a few more cycles he'll be little more than a pulsing madness.
Aldia is not the creator, although he probably guided the formation of the world as it is in Darkest Dungeon, and no matter his machinations or the resolve and courage of the heroes... eventually the light will fade once again and only embers shall remain.
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* The Narrator's assertion that history will repear itself in the epilogue.

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* The Narrator's assertion that history will repear repeat itself in the epilogue.



Lesser pieces of the evidence include:

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Lesser pieces of the evidence include:evidence:



* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever or never quit their positions, despite how bad things can get in the dungeons or at town. There may not be any other place to go.
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises up the hamlet. Why should they - he'll just destroy the hamlet latter on. ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Taven even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])

to:

* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever or and never quit their positions, despite how bad things can get in the dungeons or at town.town become. There may not be any other place to go.
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises up the hamlet. Why should they - [[RippleProofMemory he'll just destroy the hamlet latter on. on.]] ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Taven Tavern even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])



The above reveals that, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.]]

to:

The above reveals that, reveals, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.]]
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[[spoiler:It's not a benign god by any means, but its core motivation is that of a MadScientist seeing how perfect it can make its creations before leaving the planet, destroying it in the process. It regards empathy as a positive trait, so when it was awoken by how [[ForTheEvulz despicable]] the Ancestor was, it [[EvenEvilHasStandards decided that it had gone wrong somewhere]] and decided to begin [[BodyHorror reformatting]] humanity into something a little less [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters vile]] than the species that produced him. When you fight it, it [[HiddenTestOfCharacter tests]] your heroes via the [[HeroicSacrifice Come To Your Maker]] move to see if they will give up their lives for the sake of humanity-something even the scared ones submit to, [[RestoredMyFaithInHumanity which is why it allows you to kill its avatar and leave the planet alone for the next eon or so]]. But the trial, as Q would say, never ends-eventually, someone will disgust it enough to wake it up and there will be no one to provide a counterpoint, or eventually it will decide the experiment has reached completion and destroy the planet...but not for a while yet.]]

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[[spoiler:It's not a benign god by any means, but its core motivation is that of a MadScientist seeing how perfect it can make its creations before leaving the planet, destroying it in the process. It regards empathy as a positive trait, so when it was awoken by how [[ForTheEvulz despicable]] the Ancestor was, it [[EvenEvilHasStandards decided that it had gone wrong somewhere]] and decided to begin [[BodyHorror reformatting]] humanity into something a little less [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters vile]] than the species that produced him. When you fight it, it [[HiddenTestOfCharacter tests]] your heroes via the [[HeroicSacrifice Come To Your Maker]] move to see if they will give up their lives for the sake of humanity-something even the scared ones submit to, [[RestoredMyFaithInHumanity which is why it allows you to kill its avatar and leave the planet alone for the next eon or so]]. But the trial, as Q would say, never ends-eventually, someone will disgust it enough to wake it up and there will be no one to provide a counterpoint, or eventually it will decide the experiment has reached completion and destroy the planet...but not for a while yet.]]

[[WMG: The game takes place during a GroundhogDayLoop, focusing on the rise and fall of the Ancestor.]]
Main pieces of evidence:
* The Narrator's assertion that history will repear itself in the epilogue.
* The description of the Ancestor's Portrait in the game's code.
--> Though painted a hundred years ago, the resemblance to you [the Heir] is uncanny.
* The hamlet going into the same state of disrepair as the beginning of the game in the epilogue.
* [[FreezeFrameBonus The Heir in the stagecoach after the fall of the hamlet in the epilogue.]]

Lesser pieces of the evidence include:
* The Groundskeeper praying that the Gods take him away from the hamlet. Considering that the heroes can leave seeming at will to go on "vision quests" or what-have-you and the Heir is apparently powerless to retrieve them, there is no reason why the Groundskeeper can't leave on his own.
* Why the heroes ''always'' return from "vision quests" or whatever or never quit their positions, despite how bad things can get in the dungeons or at town. There may not be any other place to go.
* Why the townspeople never cut the Heir any slack as he rises up the hamlet. Why should they - he'll just destroy the hamlet latter on. ([[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts Heck, the Abbey and Taven even increase their prices for the same services as the heroes level up.]])
* How the maps found within the dungeons are ''always'' perfectly accurate. They never miss a trap or misplace a group of enemies.
* One piece of narration mentions that hamlet is isolated. No matter how well the Heir clears the Old Road, this detail never changes. Also, despite this isolation, the Groundskeeper always finds new heroes.

The above reveals that, not only are the Heir and the Ancestor the same, that the hamlet is in a repeating cycle of ruin and repair at the hands of the Ancestor/Heir. The loop repeats when the Ancestor sends the letter and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself]], and the Heir accepts the letter and takes over the Estate. Other pieces of evidence imply that, once caught in the loop, [[ClosedCircle one cannot escape it.
]]

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