History WMG / Berserk

24th Jun '17 5:38:11 PM DeadpanOkapine
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Casca, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Casca crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate, turning this into a beautiful case of poetic justice and karma towards Griffith, considering what he did to her during the Eclipse.

to:

Casca, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Casca crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate, turning this into a beautiful case of poetic justice and karma towards Griffith, considering what he did to her during the Eclipse.Eclipse.

[[WMG: There already is an Idea of Good...]]
...specifically, the Behelits.
No, seriously.
Behelits find their way into the hands of people who suffer, and grant them great power. This power is usually used to destroy the source of that person's suffering. In other words, Apostles follow the standard path of a hero in other stories.
This isn't a coincidence. Just as the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil is a perversion of humanity's desire for its suffering to be meaningful]], Behelits are a perversion of humanity's desire for a world where villains meet terrible ends.
14th Jun '17 12:32:32 AM jormis29
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[WMG:Berserk takes place in [[{{Exalted}} Creation]].]]

to:

[[WMG:Berserk takes place in [[{{Exalted}} [[TabletopGame/{{Exalted}} Creation]].]]
31st May '17 11:53:55 AM ImperialMajestyXO
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[FounderOfTheKingdom Guts forms his own group of apostle hunters and eventually becomes king.]] [[RightfulQueenReturns Casca is a long-lost Bakiraka princess.]] They both love each other a lot.

to:

[[FounderOfTheKingdom Guts forms his own group of apostle hunters and eventually becomes king.]] [[RightfulQueenReturns [[RightfulKingReturns Casca is a long-lost Bakiraka princess.]] They both love each other a lot.



* Given [[MrFanservice this is Guts we're talking about]], Zodd was probably [[WasOnceQuiteALooker pretty fine before becoming a demon.]]

to:

* Given [[MrFanservice this is Guts Guts]] [[{{Hunk}} we're talking about]], Zodd was probably [[WasOnceQuiteALooker [[IWasQuiteALooker pretty fine before becoming a demon.]]



[[spoiler:As per the Idea of Evil]], the Godhand's purpose is to provide a reason for the pain and despair in the world while [[HopeCrusher enforcing it]]. In general, they seemed content with enforcing a ViciousCycle. Griffith, however, is different; he actively changed the world, and serves to be an agent of hope and [[DarkMessiah a messiah]]. Of course this is entirely PragmaticVillainy, since even before the Eclipse [[DespotismJustifiesTheMeans he didn't give a damn about making a better world]] and has devastated most of it to force people into his GildedCage of Falconia. [[AmbitionsIsEvil He is defined by his ambition]], so why would he want to stop at being a Godhand? And I doubt he'd want to be anything less than superior to ''everyone'', including the Godhand and [[spoiler:The Idea of Evil (in fact, he'd probably take offense at being subservient to that or fate)]].

to:

[[spoiler:As per the Idea of Evil]], the Godhand's purpose is to provide a reason for the pain and despair in the world while [[HopeCrusher enforcing it]]. In general, they seemed content with enforcing a ViciousCycle. Griffith, however, is different; he actively changed the world, and serves to be an agent of hope and [[DarkMessiah a messiah]]. Of course this is entirely PragmaticVillainy, since even before the Eclipse [[DespotismJustifiesTheMeans he didn't give a damn about making a better world]] and has devastated most of it to force people into his GildedCage of Falconia. [[AmbitionsIsEvil [[AmbitionIsEvil He is defined by his ambition]], so why would he want to stop at being a Godhand? And I doubt he'd want to be anything less than superior to ''everyone'', including the Godhand and [[spoiler:The Idea of Evil (in fact, he'd probably take offense at being subservient to that or fate)]].
31st May '17 11:31:21 AM ImperialMajestyXO
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[WMG: The four God Hands (excluding Femto) will be killed by Guts [[AntiClimaxBoss within the space of a fewpanels]] ]]

to:

[[WMG: The four God Hands (excluding Femto) will be killed by Guts [[AntiClimaxBoss within the space of a fewpanels]] few panels]] ]]



*** Going on this, the Godhand are trying to break Miura. Why? If they can bring him to the DespairEventHorizon, Miura will probably not bother with any happy ending, and end the series [[DownerEnding with the Godhand winning and everyone in Hell]]. [[NightmareFuel And Femto is enjoying every second of it.]]


to:

*** Going on this, the Godhand are trying to break [[CreatorBreakdown break]] Miura. Why? If they can bring him to the DespairEventHorizon, Miura will probably not bother with any happy ending, and end the series [[DownerEnding with the Godhand winning and everyone in Hell]]. [[NightmareFuel And Femto is enjoying every second of it.]]

31st May '17 11:21:22 AM ImperialMajestyXO
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Theorem A: When Guts & Co. reach the realm of the elves, everything will degenerate into a 90's shounen anime, with everything that it entails: TotallyRadical dialogue, easy BlackAndWhiteMorality, lots of comedy (down to swear drops and similar super deformed "expressions) and lots of perversion that is taken in comedic lightness (which, based on the manga's history, will just be in pure poor taste). Likeliness: exceptionally high, because Berserk was originally conceived as a shounen.
* Theorem B: Just when Guts prepares to final blow, everyone will just get bored and leave the set. It's revealed that everyone is actually a fench stereotype, walking around in Paris with those stereotypical hats and striped clothes and eating cheese. Likeliness: also exceptionally high, since Midland is based on medieval France.

to:

* Theorem A: When Guts & Co. reach the realm of the elves, everything will degenerate into a 90's shounen anime, with everything that it entails: TotallyRadical dialogue, easy BlackAndWhiteMorality, lots of comedy (down to swear sweat drops and similar super deformed "expressions) and lots of perversion that is taken in comedic lightness (which, based on the manga's history, will just be in pure poor taste). Likeliness: exceptionally high, because Berserk was originally conceived as a shounen.
* Theorem B: Just when Guts prepares to final blow, everyone will just get bored and leave the set. It's revealed that everyone is actually a fench French stereotype, walking around in Paris with those stereotypical hats and striped clothes and eating cheese. Likeliness: also exceptionally high, since Midland is based on medieval France.
12th May '17 4:48:17 PM TheBigBopper
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[WMG: Caska will regain her mind, but she's gonna [[CameBackWrong Come Back Wrong]]...]]

to:

[[WMG: Caska Casca will regain her mind, but she's gonna [[CameBackWrong Come Back Wrong]]...]]



*** I always figured they were in a PowerTrio with Void, not unlike Guts, Caska and Griffith.

to:

*** I always figured they were in a PowerTrio with Void, not unlike Guts, Caska Casca and Griffith.



Caska will regain her memory but also understand from Farnese taking care of her and talking to her that she is in love with Guts and offers to share with her. The three adopt Jill and then meet up with Luca, depending on Schierke's relationship with Isidro she may end up being Guts' lover when she becomes an adult.

to:

Caska Casca will regain her memory but also understand from Farnese taking care of her and talking to her that she is in love with Guts and offers to share with her. The three adopt Jill and then meet up with Luca, depending on Schierke's relationship with Isidro she may end up being Guts' lover when she becomes an adult.



** I always figured he would use the behelit, under the Berserker Armour's influence, sacrifice Caska, kill Griffith, and live happily ever after with Schierke.

to:

** I always figured he would use the behelit, under the Berserker Armour's influence, sacrifice Caska, Casca, kill Griffith, and live happily ever after with Schierke.



*** Plus, sacrificing a woman he's practically married to and then running off another person who was a little girl when they first met? [[SarcasmMode Really, that's DEFINITELY not so many kinds of outrageously wrong and out of character.]] Plus, it's obvious Ishidro is the Guts to Schierke's Caska; trust me, she's far more likely to end up with him provided neither get killed.

to:

*** Plus, sacrificing a woman he's practically married to and then running off another person who was a little girl when they first met? [[SarcasmMode Really, that's DEFINITELY not so many kinds of outrageously wrong and out of character.]] Plus, it's obvious Ishidro is the Guts to Schierke's Caska; Casca; trust me, she's far more likely to end up with him provided neither get killed.



* Why would the Lord of elves need to protect Caska so badly?! And why wouldn't Puck or Evarella recognize him? Also he (the child) has no wings.

to:

* Why would the Lord of elves need to protect Caska Casca so badly?! And why wouldn't Puck or Evarella recognize him? Also he (the child) has no wings.



* Or at least he will be swayed by Caska instead of Guts. Note, we already seen that he reflexively shielded Caska from a debris once.

to:

* Or at least he will be swayed by Caska Casca instead of Guts. Note, we already seen that he reflexively shielded Caska Casca from a debris once.



[[WMG:The mysterious child is the soul of the Caska and Guts' child.]]

to:

[[WMG:The mysterious child is the soul of the Caska Casca and Guts' child.]]



Shortly after he was reborn with The Child's flesh, he visited Rickert and Guts to see if there's any reaction to them. While he initially felt nothing, he felt a reaction when Guts fought Zodd, and later protected Caska from a bunch of falling rocks. Seeing how he wishes to be 'free', he could have found a way to seperate those parts of the Child which still has feelings for his parents, keeping only those he needs.

to:

Shortly after he was reborn with The Child's flesh, he visited Rickert and Guts to see if there's any reaction to them. While he initially felt nothing, he felt a reaction when Guts fought Zodd, and later protected Caska Casca from a bunch of falling rocks. Seeing how he wishes to be 'free', he could have found a way to seperate those parts of the Child which still has feelings for his parents, keeping only those he needs.



...It's for Caska, and the moment she regains everything that had shattered within her, she'll not be able to cope with it and use it (as it finds its way to her) as a last effort to escape it all. Alternatively...

to:

...It's for Caska, Casca, and the moment she regains everything that had shattered within her, she'll not be able to cope with it and use it (as it finds its way to her) as a last effort to escape it all. Alternatively...



Caska, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Caska crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate, turning this into a beautiful case of poetic justice and karma towards Griffith, considering what he did to her during the Eclipse.

to:

Caska, Casca, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Caska Casca crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate, turning this into a beautiful case of poetic justice and karma towards Griffith, considering what he did to her during the Eclipse.
12th May '17 2:46:09 AM TitanJump
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Caska, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Caska crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate...

to:

Caska, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Caska crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate...fate, turning this into a beautiful case of poetic justice and karma towards Griffith, considering what he did to her during the Eclipse.
12th May '17 2:44:50 AM TitanJump
Is there an issue? Send a Message


In short Griffith will try to break the cycle to become all-powerful, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain but it will be the very thing that leads to his downfall]], kind of like last time. Of course, whether he'll go through with all this depends on how similar or different Femto is to Griffith besides the LackOfEmpathy.

to:

In short Griffith will try to break the cycle to become all-powerful, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain but it will be the very thing that leads to his downfall]], kind of like last time. Of course, whether he'll go through with all this depends on how similar or different Femto is to Griffith besides the LackOfEmpathy.LackOfEmpathy.

[[WMG: The Behelit in Guts' possession is not meant for him...]]
...It's for Caska, and the moment she regains everything that had shattered within her, she'll not be able to cope with it and use it (as it finds its way to her) as a last effort to escape it all. Alternatively...

[[WMG: The Behelit in Guts' possession will become Femto's undoing...]]
Caska, her memories and herself restored, ends up performing a HeroicSacrifice once it all is lost (Thinking that Guts have been killed by Femto during the final confrontation, for example), uses the Behelit and it's revealed that she still cherish and treasure Griffith above anyone and anything else, essentially branding ''him'' as a sacrifice as Caska crosses the MoralEventHorizon and as fate and consequence dictates, have Femto torn apart by her apostle-form and his soul dragged off to hell forever to complete the sacrifice, leaving a much weaker and killable monster behind for Guts to finish off than the {{Omnipotent}} humanoid eldritch abomination that's Femto. Pure poetic justice, as not even the Godhand are above the casualty of fate...
1st May '17 7:27:29 PM RJ-19-CLOVIS-93
Is there an issue? Send a Message


In short Griffith will try to break the cycle to become all-powerful, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain but it will be the very thing that leads to his downfall]].

to:

In short Griffith will try to break the cycle to become all-powerful, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain but it will be the very thing that leads to his downfall]].downfall]], kind of like last time. Of course, whether he'll go through with all this depends on how similar or different Femto is to Griffith besides the LackOfEmpathy.
1st May '17 7:20:18 PM RJ-19-CLOVIS-93
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Nosferatu Zodd: Given how disciplined he is [[NobleDemon even as an apostle]], it stands to reason that he was a prestigious military commander. To improve his position he was try a dangerous maneuver on the enemy, leading to his capture and torture. Due to his EvenEvilHasStandards ideology, he either sacrificed a loved one [[ETuBrute who sold him out]] or just a loved one, but [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone had regret]] and decided to retain his own [[BloodKnight take on morality]].
* Wyald: In spite(or really because of) his later behavior, as a human he was rather chaste. He used to be a celibate monk of sorts, living to a ripe old age as seen with [[EvilOldFolks his elderly form]]. However he remained [[CovertPervert a deeply lustful person]] [[SexIsEvilAndIAmHorny despite condemnations]]. Think Frollo. He had a close friend who ended up living a great life full of pleasures of the flesh and war, which made him really envious. As a sick old man his clergy left him, and he felt he wasted his life in the papacy. This compensation and general depravity is why he's such an egregious SerialRapist.

to:

* Nosferatu Zodd: Given how disciplined he is [[NobleDemon even as an apostle]], it stands to reason that he was a prestigious military commander. To improve his position he was try a dangerous maneuver on the enemy, leading to his capture and torture. Due to his EvenEvilHasStandards ideology, he either sacrificed a loved one [[ETuBrute [[EtTuBrute who sold him out]] or just a loved one, but [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone had regret]] and decided to retain his own [[BloodKnight take on morality]].
* Wyald: In spite(or really because of) his later behavior, as a human he was rather chaste. He used to be a celibate monk of sorts, living to a ripe old age as seen with [[EvilOldFolks his elderly form]]. However he remained [[CovertPervert a deeply lustful person]] [[SexIsEvilAndIAmHorny despite condemnations]]. Think Frollo. He had a close friend who ended up living a great life full of pleasures of the flesh and war, which made him really envious. As a sick old man his clergy left him, and he felt he wasted his life in the papacy. This compensation and general depravity is why he's such an egregious SerialRapist.SerialRapist.

[[WMG: Griffith will betray the Godhand.]]
[[spoiler:As per the Idea of Evil]], the Godhand's purpose is to provide a reason for the pain and despair in the world while [[HopeCrusher enforcing it]]. In general, they seemed content with enforcing a ViciousCycle. Griffith, however, is different; he actively changed the world, and serves to be an agent of hope and [[DarkMessiah a messiah]]. Of course this is entirely PragmaticVillainy, since even before the Eclipse [[DespotismJustifiesTheMeans he didn't give a damn about making a better world]] and has devastated most of it to force people into his GildedCage of Falconia. [[AmbitionsIsEvil He is defined by his ambition]], so why would he want to stop at being a Godhand? And I doubt he'd want to be anything less than superior to ''everyone'', including the Godhand and [[spoiler:The Idea of Evil (in fact, he'd probably take offense at being subservient to that or fate)]].

Now that he's established Falconia, the Hawk of Light is biding his time so as to ascend past even a Godhand and [[AGodAmI become a true god]]. To do so, he needs to alter the very nature of the world which he does by fusing the astral and physical planes, all to reach greater heights until there is nowhere left to rise, [[GalacticConqueror however far]] [[DimensionLord that may]] [[MultiversalConqueror be]]. There are a number of possibilities; I think the most likely is that [[spoiler:as he knows [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve the nature of the Idea of Evil]], he hopes to use his followers, the power of their worship empowered by the fusion of planes, to become an idea god and the ultimate DarkMessiah]]. Maybe he wishes to manipulate the World Tree to reach greater heights. Either way, he plans to change the game and become the unparalleled power.

Obviously, the other Godhand aren't going to tolerate this renegade, which will lead to an EnemyCivilWar. Void in particular, given he's the closest they have to a single leader and seems the most consigned to their role of manipulating fate. The Four Godhand will fall on the arrogant new king [[HistoryRepeats like the four angels a millennium ago]], though whether they succeed or get killed remains unclear. Given Guts and Casca have [[ItsPersonal the biggest right]] to his head, Griffith will fend off his first encounter only to have an opening for those he betrayed most of all to kill him. For bonus points, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard the transformations and power-grabs he's done will be the very things that makes him semi-mortal]] and once more his ambition leads to his downfall.

While Guts and Casca have gained their revenge, it will be a BittersweetEnding. Though members of the Godhand may be slain, there will be at least one member who survives like was implied last time during the reign of Emperor Gaiseric. The world will take centuries to recover from the changes done to it. [[spoiler:The Idea of Evil will still exist, and may continue to exist in some form [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil so long as people desire a reason for their suffering]] ]]. But Griffith's own actions have permanently changed the status quo, allowing [[ScrewDestiny the cruel hand of causality to weaken its grasp]]. Ironically his act of benevolence will allow real good to come about and lessen the Godhand and Apostles' grips, either increasing the supernatural forces who wish to better the world or even forging a new god who represents hope and the desire for a better world. [[spoiler:An antithesis to the Idea of Evil, a god to [[DevilButNoGod its devil]] ]]. A better world.

In short Griffith will try to break the cycle to become all-powerful, [[NiceJobFixingItVillain but it will be the very thing that leads to his downfall]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 320. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.Berserk