History WMG / ASongOfIceAndFirePartI

*** Not everything adds up for either Roose or Bowen et. al. Would Roose (or Ramsey, for that matter) call Val "the wildling princess"? Sure, he could know about her existence from Mance, but the only people we've seen using that term are Stannis' people. And on the other side, would Bowen and the other Brothers know about Reek? I think the letter was written by someone who was at the Wall for a while, and then was with Stannis' forces down the road from Winterfell. Personally, my money is on Ser Justin 'we're all going to die' Massey. Since the WoW chapter shows him being sent off on a mission, the letter could be either a last minute attempt to wrangle up more help for Stannis, or trying to stir up confusion.

[[WMG: Daenerys will Refuse the Iron Throne.]]

* This one is actually a real theory, which editors at TheOtherWiki sometimes have trouble [[StopHavingFunGuy keeping off the page]]. Head over to the official forums for more info.

*** [[YouFailBiologyForever [=You Fail Biology Forever=] ]]. The other poster get a C. Yes recessiveness/dominance is important but definitely more complex than just that (cumulative effect of more than one gene). The parent's sex linked to inherited traits is irrelevant. You can't guess based on physical appearance which child is who's. Deal with it.

** Is there a single other prophecy (or indeed [[DreamingOfThingsToCome ordinary dream]]) in this series that hasn't come true FromACertainPointOfView? It looks very much like YouCantFightFate in this universe.

* If the Wall doesn't come down (I think the chances of that are about 50-50 with it returning to its former glory as a post of distinction), this acutally makes a lot of sense-- as pointed out elsewhere, the Kingsguard and the Night's Watch are essentially parallels (one wears white, is elite, and guards the king, the other wears black, is open to all, and guards the kingdom). It'd be incredibly poetic for Jaime to end the series atoning for his crimes in the Kingsguard by serving in the Night's Watch. (I personally think he's going to end up Lord Commander, as a sort of reward/penance, and as Jon is almost certainly going to be the Stark in Winterfell. Then Sam would slot in nicely at Aemon's position, and Jorah, if he joins up as suggested above, as Lord Steward [the position he failed to serve for Dany].)

** "Very little black"? This series has ''minor characters'' that are worse than the [[BigBad primary antagonists]] of other HighFantasy series. They just happen to be distributed fairly equally among the different factions. That said, it's quite possible that we'll get some kind of backstory or fleshing out for the Others that reveals that they have some reason for slaughtering and re-animating living things other than [[ForTheEvulz shits and giggles]] and makes them somewhat more sympathetic or understandable - a la the Norns from Tad Williams' MemorySorrowAndThorn (the series that got GRRM interested in fantasy as a genre), which were also eerie, pale-skinned humanoids associated with deathly cold. So they may turn out to be somewhat sympathetic villains rather than the inscrutable monsters they are now.

* Varys is GeorgeRRMartin.

Page I of Wild Mass Guessing for the ASongOfIceAndFire novels. Please only expand on the current theories on this page, and add new theories to [[WMG/ASongOfIceAndFirePartII Page II]].

GRRM has set up this character that can sometimes read like a checklist of fantasy cliches. HeroicBastard? Check. ImprobableAge? Check. BFS? Check. But it's all just showmanship. Jon will simply serve as a convinent viewpoint character and in the end serve no real purpose beyond stopping the Wildlings. It will be brutal and come right the fuck outta nowhere. Evidence? It's [[ASongOfIceAndFire A Song Of Fucking Ice And Fire!]]

[[WMG: The world of ''ASongOfIceAndFire'' has a regular orbit around its sun.]]

[[WMG: There is no [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect Westermarck effect]] in the world of ''ASongOfIceAndFire''.]]

* Or, possibly, ''Valyrians'' are immune to the Westermark effect. If they had a cultural bias towards sibling marriage, then anyone without a natural disinclination to incest would be more likely to have more children, passing on the trait, and thus over the five thousand years of Valyria's history whatever causes the Westermark effect was bred out of them. (This could also tie in with the theory that Jaime and Cersei are Aerys' children and not Tywin's, as they also seem immune to the effect.)

[[WMG: The Others are unleashed experiments that the [[{{Claymore}} Organization]] unleashes every thousand years]]
Westeros is nothing more than another test bed for the Organization of ''{{Claymore}}'', where they're still trying to develope weapons to take on the Dragonkin.

3. [[spoiler: While staying at the house with the red door, Willem Darry was visited by an accompaniment including Oberyn Martell at an undeterminable amount of time afterwards.]]
[[spoiler: The real Daenerys died shortly after her birth. Ned went to Oberyn Martell and Doran Martell with Lyanna's child (maybe claiming it as Elia's) and requested she be placed in protection overseas with the other Targaryen children to prevent Robert's wrath. When she was taken to Braavos and it was learned that the real Daenerys died, he and Willem arranged to pass her off as the real Daenerys in the event of Viserys' death as a bastard could not inherit the throne. This also explains Ned's adamancy that Robert not kill Daenerys, as she was actually his bastard nephew. This may help or hinder Jon/Dany shippers, as they would be full siblings.]]

[[WMG: Daenerys is Azor Ahai reborn.]]
Let's look at this more closely. Azor Ahai is meant to be reborn out of smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone, when the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers. Dany woke her dragons out of petrified stone eggs on the night of Drogo's funeral; the smoke is his funeral pyre, and the salt is her tears. She also saw the red comet (the bleeding red star) at night. Her dragons are Lightbringer - Dany tried three times to wake them, and the time she succeeded, it was with the death of a spouse, just as it was with Azor Ahai.
* This theory gains some credibility in ''A Feast of Crows'': Maester Aemon thinks she is The Prince Who Was Promised, and there's a lot of overlap in both prophecies.
** Yeah, there's a lot of overlap between the two prophecies, and there's a lot of overlap with the Stallion Who Mounts The World as well. Might be that the three of them are all different names for the same thing. Damn, that should be a WMG of its own...
* Melisandre interprets the "smoke and salt" of the prophecy to refer to Stannis at Dragonstone. But where was Dany born? On Dragonstone, in the middle of a storm. Not to mention that the prophecy says Azor Ahai reborn will draw from a fire a burning sword. The burning sword could be a metaphor for the dragons.
* There is actually another link between the stories of Azor Ahai and that of the dragons: there's mention of a crack in the moon in both of them.

[[WMG: Azor Ahai, The Prince Who Was Promised, and the Stallion Who Mounts the World are all the same person.]]
And that person is Daenerys.
* Unlikely. While Dany is probably Azor Ahai, princes and stallions are male. Seriously. In addition, Dany isn't a prince/princess, she's a Queen. It is more likely that the three figures are the three heads of the Dragon, speculated below.
** She isn't a queen (in Westeros, at least) as long as [[spoiler:Aegon is alive.]]
** As Aigon points out, the word was originally gender-neutral, it was just translated to "prince." That makes Daenerys the most likely candidate to the Prince that was Promised.
*** If memory serves (feel free to correct me, I don't have the books on hand), the Stallion Who Mounts the World was supposed to be Dany's child, as the crones said that it would be the child growing in her (which died). Unless she has another child, which from the description given about her reproductive organs, doesn't seem like that will happen
*** Perhaps the crones were right but wrong. Daenerys was a child, and growing inside her metaphorically was a child to become queen. Wouldn't be the first obvious prophesy twist in the series.
*** As of ADWD, Dany probably can reproduce again
** The prophecies of Azor Ahai and the Prince that was promised are related, but the Stallion Who Mounts the world is not. It's possible that because her child died, the last prophecy died with it. Since this is all conjecture, it seems to be a case of trying to find a link where there isn't one.
*** Oh well, I'd say she's doing a pretty good job of running a big-ass ''khalasar'' reaching beyond the "edge of the world". Even as a woman.

[[WMG: Azor Ahai, The Prince Who Was Promised, and the Stallion Who Mounts the World are three separate people, but will be the three heads of the dragon that will conquer Westernos]]
Azor Ahai is Dany, as supported by the above WMG. She comes from the east, awoke the fire of dragons, and is most often associated with fire and light. She also had to sacrifice Drogo and her unborn son to awake the dragons, almost parallel to the creation of Lightbringer being plunged through the heart of Nissa Nissa.

The Prince Who Was Promised is Jon Snow. He is the "song of ice and fire" as he was born from the union of the Starks (ice) and the Targaryens (fire). He is also the defender of Westeros from the Others, and therefore is potentially the savior of the world now that Winter has reached the southern part of Westeros.

The Stallion Who Mounts the World is Tyrion. He constantly jokes about his promiscuity and virility, but also has the potential to rule the world. Unlike Dany and Jon, he has experience in conspiracies and rulership, and has the oddest gift to make anyone his ally.
* I can agree with the first two, Dany being obvious, and Jon seeming to be a fan favorite for guessing on his parentage. But Tyrion makes less sense. While speculation leads to saying that Jon and Dany are related, there is no evidence to support a similar claim for Tyrion. Unless events are told that give a relationship showing the Lannister's having Targaryen blood in them, or that somehow Tyrion is more closely related to Dany and Jon (perhaps by way of Joanna somehow being unfaithful to Tywin and Tyrion being a child of one of the Targaryen's), I can't see a connection that he fits into.
** And while Tyrion does made some sense in the way you put it, my main reasoning is the original "Three-Headed Dragon" was made up of Aegon I and his two sisters (and their dragons). So if the WMG of Jon being a Targaryen holds, then there would need to be a thrid person with Targaryen blood to complete the dragon.
*** Don't the Baratheons descend from the Targaryens ? Then one of Robert's bastards (Gendry comes to mind) may complete the trinity. But I guess you could say that of many other noble houses.
**** They do. Rhaelle Targaryen would be the one, who would be Robert, Stannis, and Renly's grandmother. It's possible. Gendry was given quite a lot of time in the book, but if we're going on importance, Edric Storm might have a better chance. After all, Stannis took Storm's End to get the boy so Melisandre could sacrifice him to wake the stone dragons on Dragonstone. But it's a good point. Also, there would also be Stannis' daughter, Shireen, but that seems highly unlikely.
**** Also Tyrion is a bit more uncertain as in aDwD had Dany been warned to be beware of the "lion". Since Tywin is dead, Cersei is not in control and Jaime is off on his own, the only "lion" that will be trouble for Dany is Tyrion.
***** Especially because of how that prediction was phrased, and where the commas were placed in the list. She was warned to beware of the kraken and the dark flame as a pair (who we know are coming together). The other pairing she was warned not to trust was the lion and the griffin (Tyrion and Griff, who were still together at the time).
** This seems to be an unlikely WMG. The Prince who was Promised is Azor Ahai reborn, not another person. In anycase, the roles don't fit. Azor Ahai was ''chosen'' to fight the other, this is much more in line with Jon.
** Wrong way around: Jon is the one who drew a sword from the fire (when he burned his hand killing the wight and Mormont gave him Longclaw) and in aDwD Melisandre thinks her scrying is broken because it keeps showing her Jon when she asks for Azor Ahai.
*** And as of the end of ''ADWD'', [[spoiler:Jon looks pretty dead unless R'hllor brings him back.]]
*** I wouldn't bet on it. Martin's exact words on the matter are "so you think he's dead, do you?" Really, how many POV characters have actually died in this series? And ''stayed'' dead, for that matter?
*** I didn't say he'd ''stay'' dead, I said his continued existence would rely on R'hllor (so if he's any of the heroes, he's Azor). Azor Ahai will be "born '''again''' amidst smoke and flame" - this might not refer to a "second coming", but to an individual's metaphorical "rebirth", and his death scene refers to smoke and tears. He's got an ancient dragonsteel sword that he received after it survived a fire, and for all we know his latent warg ability might make him easier for Meli to bring back - skinchangers believe they live on inside their beasts.
*** I won't believe he's dead until it actually happens "on-screen", so to speak, given the series. Minor quibble, though: Jon didn't pull the sword from the fire. I have no idea why this idea is so prevalent, but I seem to have to debunk it a lot. He used a flaming curtain to defeat the wight. The sword was in the fire, true, but he didn't know it was there and only received it days later after a new pommel had been carved for it to replace the one damaged in the fire.
*** I think the other poster meant the "drawing it from the fire" line was supposed to be a metaphor -- he didn't pull it from the fire, but that's how he earned it. (Though it would be pretty funny if Lightbringer was the flaming curtain.)
* Three heads of the dragon! Daenerys is one, Aegon is another one, and the third "head of the dragon" is Jon Snow, son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen! Three Targaryen children: Daenerys is the Stallion - she united the Dothraki and then expanded her forces; Jon is Azor Ahai, as per Melisandre's scrying attempts; Aegon was believed to be the Prince Who Was Promised by his fatherD
* I can agree with Dany and Jon being the two of the three heads. But why does nobody like Bran?! Bran is the one who wanted to fly and the three eyed crow said he could. Second of all its a song of ice and fire. Dany, pure fire. Jon half ice, half fire. Bran pure ice. Three heads of dragons.
** Bran has a destiny lined up, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with Dany or ruling Westeros or being one of the three heads.
** I actually think it will be Bran. But he won't ride a dragon- he'll warg into one. THAT would be flying, and I hope he gets it.
** Alternately- Bran is headed in the other direction, and is becoming the champion of the Great Other. Only a half-guess at this point, and based on the hope that the Great Other is not an absolute evil as it is portrayed.
* It seems obvious at this point that the three heads need to be Targaryens all. Although yes, Aegon might be a pretender, I see no reason at this point to think that Jon Connington and Varys both would try such a dupe- especially Jon, whom we see through his POV chapters to be very passionate about the whole thing. So he'd be the second head. The third? L+R=J is pretty much cannon. It's almost there. You can't deny it. Some circumstantial evidence for Tyrion, but really, honestly, no. It has to be those three.
** Well I do Deny it. And if I'm wrong them I'm wrong. All the books say is that the Targaryens have a strong bond with the dragons, it never said they have to be with the dragons. Now I could be wrong. Its just Bran wanting to fly really nags at me.
** You're assuming, by pointing out his chapters, that Jon Connington wasn't lied to. I think Varys is plenty tricky enough to pull that off.
** There's a pretty good chance the Lannisters have Targaryen blood, along with every other noble house. Westerosi nobles are quite "productive." Five children seems quite normal and even a woman who knows that every child brings her closer to losing everything has three of them. The Great Houses also do a lot of interbreeding. We see that Baratheons and Lannisters have married and had children at least four times before, and with that kind of inbreeding and 300 years to spread the seed (I can't even see it taking more than 3 or 4 generations to get a Targaryen ancestor in each of the seven houses), I think we can safely say that a huge chunk of the nobility has at least a drop of Targaryen blood, assuming a drop is all that's needed to be able to bond with a dragon.
*** But as Quentyn Martell showed us in A Dance With Dragons, it takes more than a drop of Targaryen blood to bond with dragons. The theory that every noble family probably has Targaryen blood somewhere is sound, but it's not enough. It will probably have to be someone with either a full or half helping of Targaryen blood or some serious destiny issues.
** No. GRRM has said that the three heads of the dragons do not need to be Targaryens.
* So what now with [[spoiler: Jon looking pretty dead.]]
** You can really only call that [[spoiler: mostly dead. Look at who we're dealing with here. We didn't see a body or the words "he's dead" from a reliable source, and Jon "didn't feel the [last] knife." From GRRM, this could very easily be a half-sentence that ends in "...because Sam (or Grenn) football-tackled the last stabber, having arrived with some of Jon's old friends because they had tidings of dire importance so they hired (or kidnapped) a new maester (because the wall's being staffed with a lot of non-Brothers right now so why not one more) and high-tailed it to Castle Black, where they arrived just in time and the maester (or woods witch, or midwife, or or or) was able to save Jon from his wounds." Do I think he's dead? Sadly, yes, I do, because GRRM is a bastard. But I don't think we can take his "death" at face value yet, so there's not enough reason to rule this theory out.]]
*** Well [[spoiler: I think he is dead, but as said somewhere further down, I don't think he's going to stay dead.]]
*** How's this-[[spoiler: Jon will be biologically dead for a few minutes and Melisandre will bring him back to life the way Thoros has proven is possible.]]
** Now to actually answer the question, Dany is the Prince Who Was Promised, Tyrion is the Stallion Et Cetera, and Aegon, Brienne, or a Targaryen bastard we haven't met yet is Azor Ahai. Or, [[spoiler: Jon really was Azor (or whoever)]] and now they're all fucked.
Now that I really think about it, Tyrion definitely has to be on of three heads of the dragon. One it was implied in ADWD that mad King Arys was in love with Lady Joanna Lannister. We know that Lord Tywin loved his wife very much, but we don't know how she felt about him since she was dead long before the books started so it was entirely possible that she cheated on Tywin with Arys and may have gotten pregnant with Tyrion that way. Second even though it is stated in the book that the main reason why Tywin hated and mistreated Tyrion is because he is malformed dwarf and his wife died giving birth to him, but he may have also hated his son because he may have subconsciously known/suspected that Tyrion isn't his. And thirdly Tyrion has had a lifetime obsession/fascination with dragons and everything having to do with them that he can't really explain. Which leads me to believe that it is entirely possible he's actually Tyrion Targaryen, not Tyrion Lannister. Also since we know that Joanna was also a Lannister by being a cousin of Tywin's that Tyrion being half Targaryen and half Lannister might explain his mismatched eyes......
* Maybe Tyrion already knows. He is quite fond of calling himself a bastard, that could just be a refuge in audacity.
* If Tyrion is a Targaryen maybe that's why his dwarfism appeared out of nowhere when you would think that kind of thing would run in the family. While it didn't appear in the Targaryen family either the inbreeding could have been the cause.
** Actually, no. If we assume Tyrion has the same type of dwarfism Peter Dinklage has (a reasonable assumption from his description) and that it works the same way in Westeros, Tyrion has achondroplasia -- the most common form of dwarfism, which is genetic, but in something like 80% of cases the result of a random mutation and not inherited.
Danerys riding Drogon (Black dragon), Jon Snow riding Viserion (White dragon), and Bran possessing Rhaegal (Green dragon), possibly after his death. At their meeting, the three-eyed crow said Bran would fly, this after a prologue that revolved around a warg's dilemma over the choice of his final skin. This also balances ice and fire in the choice of riders.
* Really like this theory, and I'm pulling for Dany and Jon, but my thoughts on the third head:
** It won't be Stannis. He'll make the ultimate sacrifice and Martin will screw him over. ''Sob''.
** It could be Gendry. He takes Edric Storm's place in the TV series- why would Martin allow that unless he had plans for the guy?
** Uh... Victarion? Kind of doubt it, but he does have the magic horn going for him.

[[WMG: Oathkeeper is Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.]]
The red coloring of Brienne's sword is remarked upon repeatedly. It was forged from Ice, the sword of failed hero Eddard Stark, and Brienne herself is very much a hero in the romantic mold. Though she may not herself be Azor Ahai reborn, perhaps Brienne is destined to bear it to him/her.
* Agreed. And the person she is delivering it to may be Robert's bastard Gendry [[spoiler: meaning that her role in the story may be over and her hanging may not be the fake out people generally assume.]]
** [[spoiler: Brienne is apparently alive or a zombie in ADWD, but she only appears in one scene, with few lines.]]
* Assuming that Jon Snow ''is'' Eddard's real son, then she might be giving it to him. Robb legitimised him before he was murdered so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to inherit Eddard's sword, especially if he ends up giving Longclaw to Ser Jorah. Even if this isn;t the case, a sword of fire forged from Ice is very in keeping with the Ice & Fire motif
* Consider the following; [[spoiler: Azor Ahai tempered his sword by thrusting it through his lover's chest; Brienne was given a choice between killing Jaime and death, and chose the former; and Jaime/Brienne gets a lot of ShipTease and [[FanPreferredCouple general support]].]]

[[WMG: Dawn is Lightbringer.]]
It is the only sword which has been passed down not by inheritance, but by ''merit''. It is said to be made of metal forged from the '''heart''' of a fallen star. Its wielder is called ''The Sword of Morning''. Morning is what comes right after darkness. Both of these phrases seem to allude that Dawn is not simply Lightbriner reborn, but the ancient sword Lightbringer ''itself''.
* Even though it isn't inherited, if Jon Snow = Azor Ahai and Ashara Dayne = Jon's mother, there's definitely some poetic justice to his taking up his uncle's sword.
* One might also note that Lightbringer is referred to as a sword made from "dragonsteel" in the archives on the wall... This is assumed to be Valyrian steel, but the Valyrians would not be anything but sheep herders until thousands of years later, so this cannot be. Dragonsteel might then reasonably be made from firey metals that fall from the sky.

[[WMG: Azor Ahai, The Prince Who Was Promised, and the Third Head of the Dragon are all the same person, and it is Eddison Tollett]]
Think about it. "His is the song of ice and fire," referring to the ICE-COLD delivery of the many HOT-BURNS he serves up throughout the series. Given his downcast attitude and black outlook on life, gaining a magic sword by killing his only love in life would be in perfect keeping with his track record of successes mixed with failure and his gloomy character.
GRRM's desire to keep surprises coming works well too, since he has many other more 'obvious' candidates out there, few wouls suspect it is Ed. We are never specifically told who Ed's mother is, leaving an opportunity for him to be either Aegon (he is the right age to have been switched at birth, as noted in other {{WMG}}s above) or a bastard child from another Targaryen.
Once it is revealed to him what his true destiny is, perhaps by Sam returning from Oldtown with the prophecies, he will likely say a typical Dolorous Ed line, like, "Well I suppose everyone expects me to defeat the Great Other and save Westeros from an eternal night of pain and darkness. I should have been a Builder like Gren. All they have to do is make ice."
** Sir or ma'am, may I just say that I like the cut of your jib.

[[WMG: Stannis really is Azor Ahai reborn, and Daenerys' arrival in Westeros will be anticlimactic.]]
Stannis will eventually win the war for the throne and unite Westeros under his rule after a long and bloody struggle, and he will lead Westeros to victory over the Others, but lay down his own life in the process. At this point Daenerys will arrive with her army and her dragons, and she will take the throne by default, like [[{{Hamlet}} Fortinbras]], because there will be no one left to contest the point.