History ValuesDissonance / VideoGames

18th Aug '16 12:25:40 PM Steven
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* One theory that has been made to explain why JRPG's are popular in Japan but not in the West is the fact that JRPG's require a lot of level grinding. Japanese gamers are perceived as being more patient than Western gamers and perceive the idea of level grinding in order to get some ultimate reward in the end. In the West most people do neither have that kind of patience nor the wanting for a reward, which is the reason why many Western gamers get frustrated with those games and give up on ever trying one, which results in low sales. This may be the same reason ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter'' is a best-selling series in Japan, but is a CultClassic at best in the United States.

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* One theory that has been made to explain why JRPG's are popular in Japan but not in the West is the fact that JRPG's require a lot of level grinding. Japanese gamers are perceived as being more patient than Western gamers and perceive the idea of level grinding in order to get some ultimate reward in the end. In the West most people do neither have that kind of patience nor the wanting for a reward, which is the reason why many Western gamers get frustrated with those games and give up on ever trying one, which results in low sales. This may be the same reason ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter'' is a best-selling series in Japan, but is a CultClassic at best in the United States. On a similar vein, RandomDrop and RareRandomDrop when it comes to items are seen as widely accepted in many Asian gaming circles since they don't mind potentially waiting a long time to finally get that InfinityPlusOneSword. Western players greatly despise those game mechanics for being too reliant on luck.


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* The idea of allowing player to buy items, gear, or even skipping several character levels via cash shop in an MMORPG is heavily divided among gamers. For Asian players, they have no issue cash shops since they can buy exactly what they want without any fluff and can level up faster (most Asian countries enforce a law that heavily limits how much time someone can play an online game). For Western players, cash shops are seen as pay to win that devalues the idea of working towards your goals purely on your effort instead of BribingYourWayToVictory.
2nd Aug '16 5:07:13 AM Morgenthaler
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** VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun and its sequel have gotten a lot of flak over the use of the terms "civilized" and "uncivilized." All the countries in the world are divided into these two categories, with "civilized" countries being able to industrialize much easier and research technology much better. This rather simplistic dichotomy works well for game balance purposes, but still generates controversy. The developers respond that the game, which covers the period of neo-imperialism and the heyday of scientific racism, is by its very scope Eurocentric, and that their detractors are just reacting badly to values dissonance.
** {{Civilization}} has whales and elephants as exploitable resources your civilization can take advantage of, often as luxury trade goods. For modern, western civs, that might mean tourism, but for most civs in most time periods it really means whaling and hunting for elephants as labor and ivory.

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** VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun VideoGame/VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun and its sequel have gotten a lot of flak over the use of the terms "civilized" and "uncivilized." All the countries in the world are divided into these two categories, with "civilized" countries being able to industrialize much easier and research technology much better. This rather simplistic dichotomy works well for game balance purposes, but still generates controversy. The developers respond that the game, which covers the period of neo-imperialism and the heyday of scientific racism, is by its very scope Eurocentric, and that their detractors are just reacting badly to values dissonance.
** {{Civilization}} VideoGame/{{Civilization}} has whales and elephants as exploitable resources your civilization can take advantage of, often as luxury trade goods. For modern, western civs, that might mean tourism, but for most civs in most time periods it really means whaling and hunting for elephants as labor and ivory.
26th Jul '16 8:04:26 PM Valiona
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** In both ''Persona 3'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'', doing well on your exams makes you more popular. Viewers of Western media are typically used to [[IntelligenceEqualsIsolation the opposite trope]].

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** In both ''Persona 3'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'', doing well on your exams makes you more popular. Viewers of Western media are typically used to [[IntelligenceEqualsIsolation the opposite trope]]. That said, Shu, despite being the top student of his class, doesn't have any friends until he [[spoiler:gets caught cheating, and his greatest academic rival (who also isn't very popular himself) stands up for him]].



** Yukari Takeba's [[AmericansHateTingle sizeable Western hatedom]] stems predominantly from her having the unfortunate combination of this trope and a ScrappyMechanic. In a game that depends on you [[LevelUpAtIntimacy5 mastering Social Links]], and with the ability to [[YouLoseAtZeroTrust Reverse and Break Social Links]], Yukari's Social Link depends ''heavily'' on understanding a Japanese perception about personal strength, responsibility and maturity. These are so contrary to typical Western perceptions that she is the absolute easiest character in the game to accidentally mess up with.
** [[GagPenis Mara]]'s presence alone should be enough to force an M rating on any [=MegaTen=] game it's in, since the Persona in question appears as ''[[{{Squick}} a man-sized slimy penis with a mouth, spindly human arms]] and NaughtyTentacles'' riding a chariot. The few US-released games in the franchise that don't have a T rating are the same games that don't feature him. A prime example would be comparing ''VideoGame/Persona4ArenaUltimax'' to ''{{VideoGame/Persona Q}}''. ''Ultimax'' is a fighting game that features teenagers beating up each other with swords, knives ect. and doesn't have Mara. It's rated T. While ''Q'' has a RPG elements of defeating Shadows and even has a cute artstyle...and has Mara. It's rated M. M for Mara indeed.

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** Yukari Takeba's [[AmericansHateTingle sizeable Western hatedom]] stems predominantly from her having the unfortunate combination of this trope and a ScrappyMechanic. In a game that depends on you [[LevelUpAtIntimacy5 mastering Social Links]], and with the ability to [[YouLoseAtZeroTrust Reverse and Break Social Links]], Yukari's Social Link depends ''heavily'' on understanding a Japanese perception about personal strength, responsibility and maturity. These are so contrary to typical Western perceptions that she is the absolute easiest character in the game to accidentally mess up with.
with. Of particular note is one case in which you can Reverse her Social Link by choosing to hug her when she's at a low point. As mentioned elsewhere, hugging is a highly intimate act in Japan, but one that many Westerners wouldn't think much of.
** [[GagPenis Mara]]'s presence alone should be enough to force an M rating on any [=MegaTen=] game it's in, since the Persona in question appears as ''[[{{Squick}} a man-sized slimy penis with a mouth, spindly human arms]] and NaughtyTentacles'' riding a chariot. The few US-released games in the franchise that don't have a T rating are the same games that don't feature him. A prime example would be comparing ''VideoGame/Persona4ArenaUltimax'' to ''{{VideoGame/Persona Q}}''. ''Ultimax'' is a fighting game that features teenagers beating up each other with swords, knives ect. and doesn't have Mara. It's rated T. While On the other hand, ''Q'' has a RPG elements of defeating Shadows and even has a cute artstyle...and has Mara. It's rated M. M for Mara indeed.
15th Jul '16 11:06:22 PM JonahtheMann
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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII'', and ''Devil's Third'' have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim points in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]], this is likely the reason for Square Enix's infamous downward spiral post-2001; ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.

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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII'', and ''Devil's Third'' have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim points out in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]], this is likely the reason for Square Enix's infamous downward spiral in the West post-2001; ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.
15th Jul '16 11:05:15 PM JonahtheMann
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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII'', and ''Devil's Third'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''Devil's Third'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.

to:

* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII'', and ''Devil's Third'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''Devil's Third'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states points in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: video]], this is likely the reason for Square Enix's infamous downward spiral post-2001; ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.
15th Jul '16 10:31:49 PM JonahtheMann
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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII]]'', and ''Devil's Third'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''Devil's Third'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.

to:

* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII]]'', XIII'', and ''Devil's Third'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''Devil's Third'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.
15th Jul '16 10:31:32 PM JonahtheMann
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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''[[VideoGame/Bayonetta]]'', ''[[VideoGame/KillerIsDead]]'', ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII]]'', and ''[[VideoGame/Devil'sThird]]'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, adding to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''[[VideoGame/Devil'sThird]]'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then [[Creator/SquareEnix]] boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.

to:

* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''[[VideoGame/Bayonetta]]'', ''[[VideoGame/KillerIsDead]]'', ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII]]'', ''Bayonetta'', ''Killer Is Dead'', ''Final Fantasy XIII]]'', and ''[[VideoGame/Devil'sThird]]'' ''Devil's Third'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, adding add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''[[VideoGame/Devil'sThird]]'' (''Devil's Third'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then [[Creator/SquareEnix]] Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.
15th Jul '16 10:30:01 PM JonahtheMann
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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''[[Bayonetta]]'', ''[[KillerIsDead]]'', ''[[FinalFantasyXIII]]'', and ''[[Devil'sThird]]'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, adding to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''[[Devil'sThird]]'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''If brevity is the sole of wit, then [[SquareEnix]] boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games''.

to:

* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''[[Bayonetta]]'', ''[[KillerIsDead]]'', ''[[FinalFantasyXIII]]'', ''[[VideoGame/Bayonetta]]'', ''[[VideoGame/KillerIsDead]]'', ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII]]'', and ''[[Devil'sThird]]'' ''[[VideoGame/Devil'sThird]]'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, adding to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''[[Devil'sThird]]'' (''[[VideoGame/Devil'sThird]]'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''If ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then [[SquareEnix]] [[Creator/SquareEnix]] boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games''.games"''.
15th Jul '16 10:27:37 PM JonahtheMann
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* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''[[Bayonetta]]'', ''[[KillerIsDead]]'', ''[[FinalFantasyXIII]]'', and ''[[Devil'sThird]]'' (just to name a few), have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, adding to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games (''[[Devil'sThird]]'' in particular) have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. Yahtzee and Jim Sterling) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim states in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]]: ''If brevity is the sole of wit, then [[SquareEnix]] boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games''.
28th Jun '16 2:35:34 PM PrincessGwen
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* In the Japanese version of ''VideoGame/IceClimbers'' the yeti-looking Topis are seals. They were redesigned internationally due to the fact seal clubbing is more of a controversial subject outside of Japan. This change affected ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Melee'' as well. Even if you put your games language to Japanese, Topis will not turn into seals unless you own a Japanese copy.

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* In the Japanese version of ''VideoGame/IceClimbers'' the yeti-looking Topis are seals. They were redesigned internationally due to the fact seal clubbing is more of a controversial subject outside of Japan. This change affected ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros Melee'' as well. Even if you put your games game's language to Japanese, Topis will not turn into seals unless you own a Japanese copy.
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