History ValuesDissonance / VideoGames

16th Aug '17 12:22:34 PM SeptimusHeap
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** It says something the United States' thoughts on [[MayDecemberRomance romancing a ten-year-old]] when an M-rated game tones down the [[{{Shotacon}} implications]] on dating Ken.

to:

** It says something the United States' thoughts on [[MayDecemberRomance romancing a ten-year-old]] when an M-rated game tones down the [[{{Shotacon}} [[LoliconAndShotacon implications]] on dating Ken.
27th Jul '17 7:33:09 PM MummyGaGa
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** In both ''Persona 3'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'', doing well on your exams makes you more popular. Viewers of Western media are typically used to [[IntelligenceEqualsIsolation the opposite trope]]. That said, Shu, despite being the top student of his class, doesn't have any friends until he [[spoiler:gets caught cheating, and his greatest academic rival (who also isn't very popular himself) stands up for him]].

to:

** In both ''Persona 3'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'', doing well on your exams makes you more popular. Viewers of Western media are typically used to [[IntelligenceEqualsIsolation the opposite trope]]. That said, Shu, despite being the top student of his class, doesn't have any friends until he [[spoiler:gets caught cheating, and his greatest academic rival (who also isn't very popular himself) stands up for him]]. In addition to that, while ''VideoGame/Persona5'' does increase your charm if you do well on your exams, the two smartest Phantom Thieves (aka Futaba and Makoto) don't have a lot of friends even before the former became a shut-in, and Joker doesn't have a lot of friends in Shujin Academy as a majority of his confidents don't even attend that school.


Added DiffLines:

** In ''VideoGame5/Persona5'', [[AmericansHateTingle Akechi's less warm reception towards western audiences]] may something to deal with this thanks to his [[spoiler: status as an illegitimate child. Illegitimate and adopted children in Japan face far more discrimination compared to many western countries, as a family's image and prestige holds a lot of weight, and simply being a bastard [[BastardAngst is considered an irredeemable flaw.]] While Japan found his anger towards his past to be much more justified, Americans viewed it as {{Wangst}}.]]
** Haru's father, the fifth target of ''VideoGame/Persona5'', is meant to ultimately be more sympathetic than many of the other targets, in large part due to how thoroughly he recants and apologizes at the end of his Palace and how he truly cares for Haru, deep down, [[spoiler:as well as the fact that he's assassinated on live TV after his change of heart]]. However, his original sin is arranging Haru's marriage for political gain. While arranged marriage is still decently common in Japan, especially among the well-to-do (and thus it's not too unusual for him to be doing it either way), and while the game is still unambiguous that the situation is cruel and unfair to Haru, in Anglophone countries not only has the practice become universally reviled and makes Haru seem like nothing but a bargaining chip (which the Palace emphasizes at points), but Okumura's initial willingness to force Haru into a marriage with a man who is pretty much two drinks and a bad day short of being a ''physically violent rapist''[[note]]The conversation between Okumura's Shadow (i.e repressed feelings) and the manifestation of how Okumura sees his son-in-law makes it clear that Okumura knows what he's doing[[/note]] puts Okumura squarely into the Kamoshida tier of bastardy for many, with his apology not doing much to mitigate things (it doesn't help that his pre-battle "apology" was a lie to get the Thieves to lower their guard). [[spoiler:Opinion might've softened on him if he had more time to follow up on improving his relationship with Haru and making her life better, but since he isn't given the chance...]]
** A common complaint for ''VideoGame/Persona5'' from Western critics is that, despite the game heavily dealing with the nature of youth being misunderstood by the previous generation, the game has no GayOption (unlike previous Persona games) and not much in the way of positive LGBT representation. This is in part a fundamental misunderstanding of the theme, as while America heavily associates such issues with discrimination (which LGBT topics fall under), Japan is far more routed in social corruption (which the game deals extensively with).
16th Jul '17 9:19:17 PM Nicoaln
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Gambling in general - CERO appears to have little to no problem giving an "A" (all ages) rating to games with in-game casinos (such as some ''VideoGame/DragonQuest'' games or ''VideoGame/NiNoKuni''), neither does ESRB, as you will see these games with an "E" or "E10", not listing it as one of the reasons behind its rating. Other countries and regions, however, are much stricter. This has resulted in some discrepancies in rating (ie, ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII'' being "PEGI 12" but "E10" in NA or ''VideoGame/NiNoKuni'' getting the Korean equivalent of an "M" rating yet everyone else listed it as "T" or "PEGI 12") or even affecting future development. (See ''Franchise/{{Pokémon}}'')

to:

* Gambling in general - CERO appears to have little to no problem giving an "A" (all ages) rating to games with in-game casinos (such as some ''VideoGame/DragonQuest'' games or ''VideoGame/NiNoKuni''), neither does ESRB, as you will see these games with an "E" or "E10", not listing it as one of the reasons behind its rating. Other countries and regions, however, are much stricter. This has resulted in some discrepancies in rating (ie, ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII'' being "PEGI 12" but "E10" in NA or ''VideoGame/NiNoKuni'' getting the Korean equivalent of an "M" rating yet everyone else listed it as "T" or "PEGI 12") or even affecting future development. (See ''Franchise/{{Pokémon}}'')''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'')



** The European version of ''Platinum'' removed the slot machines because PEGI has gotten harsher on gambling references. MoralGuardians elsewhere complained too, and in ''[=HeartGold=]'' and ''[=SoulSilver=]'', the slot machines were replaced outside of Japan (even in North America, which ''did'' have slot machines in ''Platinum''). Every game (including remakes) released afterwards lacks them entirely, even in Japan (this is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in ''Omega Ruby'' and ''Alpha Sapphire''). When ''VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue'' were rereleased on the 3DS Virtual Console with slot machines intact, the game's PEGI rating went from 3 to 12.

to:

** The European version of ''Platinum'' removed the slot machines because PEGI has gotten harsher on gambling references. MoralGuardians elsewhere complained too, and in ''[=HeartGold=]'' and ''[=SoulSilver=]'', the slot machines were replaced outside of Japan (even in North America, which ''did'' have slot machines in ''Platinum''). Every game (including remakes) released afterwards lacks them entirely, even in Japan (this is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in ''Omega Ruby'' and ''Alpha Sapphire''). When ''VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue'' were rereleased on the 3DS Virtual Console with slot machines intact, the game's PEGI rating went from 3 to 12. The same happened with the Gen II games.



** When the first couple games were rereleased for the virtual console, they had to be resubmitted to the ESRB and PEGI for their ratings.
16th Jul '17 9:15:55 PM Nicoaln
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Gambling in general - CERO appears to have little to no problem giving an "A" (all ages) rating to games with in-game casinos (such as some ''VideoGame/DragonQuest'' games or ''VideoGame/NiNoKuni''), neither does ESRB, as you will see these games with an "E" or "E10", not listing it as one of the reasons behind its rating. Other countries and regions, however, are much stricter. This has resulted in some discrepancies in rating (ie, ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII'' being "PEGI 12" but "E10" in NA or ''VideoGame/NiNoKuni'' getting the Korean equivalent of an "M" rating yet everyone else listed it as "T" or "PEGI 12") or even affecting future development. (See ''Franchise/{{Pokémon}}'')



** Related, ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII'''s 3DS remake was given an "E10" rating in North America, yet in Europe, it was given "12" - the equivalent of a "T" rating due to the in-game casinos.
16th Jul '17 9:07:04 PM Nicoaln
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** When the first couple games were rereleased for the virtual console, they had to be resubmitted to the ESRB and PEGI for their ratings.


Added DiffLines:

** Hisame was seen as a no-nonsense serious person who was considered somewhat boring, not even being TheComicallySerious... but one gag in Japan was his hobby of pickling vegetables. Why was it a gag? Because that was him acting like an "old man". In the west? That would just make people confused.


Added DiffLines:

* The 3DS version of ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVIII'' had some people ([[VocalMinority mostly in the US]]) complain that it was "censored" because of a few scenes being changed, as well as some of Jessica's outfits that were made to cover up more skin compared to the original version on the PS2. [[MisBlamed Nintendo actually didn't have anything to do with these]]. This was actually because what CERO deemed acceptable in 2004 for an "All ages" game was different than in 2016 - Nintendo meanwhile didn't care, they were happy to allow it to maintain its "T" and "PEGI 12" ratings.
** Related, ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII'''s 3DS remake was given an "E10" rating in North America, yet in Europe, it was given "12" - the equivalent of a "T" rating due to the in-game casinos.
1st Jul '17 8:52:57 PM JonahtheMann
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'', ''VideoGame/KillerIsDead'', ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'', and ''VideoGame/DevilsThird'' have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths and thus, add to the overall fun. In the western world however, such games have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. [[WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation Yahtzee]] and [[WebVideo/{{Jimquisition}} Jim Sterling]]) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim points out in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]], this is likely the reason for Square Enix's infamous downward spiral in the West post-2001; ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.
** As a side note these kinds of storytelling style was, and still is, prevalent in Japanese media such as anime, manga, and light novel, and thus it's natural for contemporary Japanese videogames to follow suit. And said method of storytelling has been hit or miss with the Western fans, didn't help that some adaptations leave with GeckoEnding or just plain unfinished compared to the source material.

to:

* As a general factor to note when it comes to values dissonance and video game storytelling, Japanese gamers and critics alike are generally more accepting of wacky, over-the-top, and - above all else - heavily disjointed plotlines that western gamers often find difficult to keep up with or make sense of. In Japan, games such as ''VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}}'', ''VideoGame/KillerIsDead'', ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'', and ''VideoGame/DevilsThird'' have been praised for their wild and exciting plotlines that take players on a multitude of different paths setpieces and thus, add to the overall fun.plot twists. In the western world however, such games have been criticized by many discerning gamers and critics (i.e. [[WebAnimation/ZeroPunctuation Yahtzee]] and [[WebVideo/{{Jimquisition}} Jim Sterling]]) for being poorly thought-out and all over the place; a jumbled mess of ideas thrown randomly together with no overarching theme, concept, premise, or focus point that would otherwise tie everything together. As Jim points out in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGSR7ZY_sU this video]], this is likely the reason for Square Enix's infamous downward spiral in the West post-2001; ''"If brevity is the sole of wit, then Square Enix boasts some of the most witless fuckers in video games"''.
post-2001.
** As a side note these kinds note, this style of storytelling style was, and still is, prevalent in Japanese media such as anime, manga, and light novel, novels, and thus it's so it is natural for contemporary Japanese videogames video games to follow suit. And said Said method of storytelling has been hit or miss with the Western fans, didn't fanbases though, and it doesn't help that some adaptations either leave with a GeckoEnding or are just plain left unfinished compared to the source material.
27th Jun '17 10:26:26 AM 493251gen
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Some believe that this is why the starters are generally predominantly male. In Japan, gifts are SeriousBusiness, and female Pokémon are considered more valuable than male Pokémon due to their role in the breeding mechanics (females determine what type of Pokémon is born, males determine the child's move set, the latter prior to Gen. VI). Thus, since each Gen's starter is a gift to you from the region's Pokemon Professor, the male to female ratio for Starters is heavily on the male side to discourage trading it.

to:

** Some believe that this is why the starters are generally predominantly male. In Japan, gifts are SeriousBusiness, and female Pokémon are considered more valuable than male Pokémon due to their role in the breeding mechanics (females determine what type species of Pokémon is born, males determine the child's move set, the latter prior to Gen. VI). Thus, since each Gen's starter is a gift to you from the region's Pokemon Professor, the male to female ratio for Starters is heavily on the male side to discourage trading it.
27th Jun '17 10:18:18 AM Piterpicher
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* KunioTachiNoBanka: [[spoiler: Sabu shot Misako, Kyoko, and Ken during different parts of the game.]] While it's already considered to be a MoralEventHorizon, the Japanese gun laws prohibits most kinds of firearms to the point that even some {{Yakuza}} refuse to hold one with the penalties being high (firing irresponsibly ranges from three years to life in prison). It also means that [[spoiler: Sabu]] lost his honor after those acts.

to:

* KunioTachiNoBanka: ''VideoGame/KunioTachiNoBanka'': [[spoiler: Sabu shot Misako, Kyoko, and Ken during different parts of the game.]] While it's already considered to be a MoralEventHorizon, the Japanese gun laws prohibits most kinds of firearms to the point that even some {{Yakuza}} refuse to hold one with the penalties being high (firing irresponsibly ranges from three years to life in prison). It also means that [[spoiler: Sabu]] lost his honor after those acts.
18th May '17 9:43:17 AM Pichu-kun
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Natsume has run into this a few times in translating the ''Franchise/HarvestMoon'' games:

to:

* Natsume has run into this a few times in translating the ''Franchise/HarvestMoon'' ''VideoGame/HarvestMoon'' games:



* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZelda'', the third dungeon is in the shape of a Manji, which is sometimes called a reverse swastika. While the Manji itself has a more religious meaning, most western players saw it as the swastika used by the Nazis. On the subject of religion, the game and its sequel have the holy cross symbol on Link's shield and on the gravestones found in the graveyard. The Magic Book item not only had a cross on it as well, but it was called a Bible in the Japanese version. Originally, [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the games were going to feature Christianity as the main religion everyone followed]], but the idea was changed to having just nameless gods. While Japanese games usually have no problem using religious references and characters, they are widely seen as taboo for Nintendo games due to the main audience being young children. The cross idea was dropped by ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaALinkToThePast'', but the Japanese version still referenced gods and the title was called ''Triforce of the Gods'' instead of ''A Link to the Past''. By ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', characters and text talking about goddesses and gods were done more freely in the English version since there were no real life religions or symbols being used.

to:

* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZelda'', ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaI'', the third dungeon is in the shape of a Manji, which is sometimes called a reverse swastika. While the Manji itself has a more religious meaning, most western players saw it as the swastika used by the Nazis. On the subject of religion, the game and its sequel have the holy cross symbol on Link's shield and on the gravestones found in the graveyard. The Magic Book item not only had a cross on it as well, but it was called a Bible in the Japanese version. Originally, [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the games were going to feature Christianity as the main religion everyone followed]], but the idea was changed to having just nameless gods. While Japanese games usually have no problem using religious references and characters, they are widely seen as taboo for Nintendo games due to the main audience being young children. The cross idea was dropped by ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaALinkToThePast'', but the Japanese version still referenced gods and the title was called ''Triforce of the Gods'' instead of ''A Link to the Past''. By ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', characters and text talking about goddesses and gods were done more freely in the English version since there were no real life religions or symbols being used.
18th May '17 9:40:01 AM Pichu-kun
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Natsume has run into this a few times in translating the ''VideoGame/HarvestMoon'' games.

to:

* Natsume has run into this a few times in translating the ''VideoGame/HarvestMoon'' games.''Franchise/HarvestMoon'' games:



** In ''VideoGame/HarvestMoonBackToNature For Girl'', your game also ended after you became married (except for with one bachelor). Though this was changed in the enhanced port-remake, ''More Friends of Mineral Town''.

to:

** In ''VideoGame/HarvestMoonBackToNature For Girl'', your game also ended after you became married (except for with one bachelor). Though this was changed in the enhanced port-remake, remake, ''More Friends of Mineral Town''.



** Many games feature OlderThanTheyLook love interests such as Luna from ''VideoGame/HarvestMoonTreeOfTranquility'' and Fritz from ''VideoGame/StoryOfSeasons''. These characters appeal to Japanese fans who find them "cute" however older western fans are often weirded out by dating someone who looks like a child.

to:

** Many games feature OlderThanTheyLook love interests interests, such as Luna from ''VideoGame/HarvestMoonTreeOfTranquility'' and Fritz from ''VideoGame/StoryOfSeasons''. These characters appeal to Japanese fans who find them "cute" however older western fans are often weirded out by dating someone who looks like a child.



** The Pokémon games also give a meta example: The idea of splitting the content between two games and requiring players to trade for version-exclusive content is often viewed very differently by different audiences. The Japanese players see it as a SocializationBonus. A lot of western players see it as [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo a money-grab]] that forces them to buy the same game twice for 100% completion.

to:

** The Pokémon ''Pokémon'' games also give a meta example: The idea of splitting the content between two games and requiring players to trade for version-exclusive content is often viewed very differently by different audiences. The Japanese players see it as a SocializationBonus. A lot of western players see it as [[OneGameForThePriceOfTwo a money-grab]] that forces them to buy the same game twice for 100% completion.


Added DiffLines:

* The Update 1.10 of ''VideoGame/MarioKart8Deluxe'' removed an Inkling Girl gesture due to this. The BicepPolishingGesture was edited into a fist bump by removing the part where she grabs her arm. In Japan it's just an excited gesture but in many regions it's an offensive gesture.
This list shows the last 10 events of 368. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=ValuesDissonance.VideoGames