Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Trivia / TheThirdMan

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BadExportForYou: Because of differing cultural tastes and content standards, the original American release trimmed 11 minutes from the British version. Carol Reed's OpeningNarration was replaced with one by Creator/JosephCotten, Holly's scenes were edited to change him from an AntiHero into TheHero, and some content that would run afoul of UsefulNotes/TheHaysCode was taken out (most memorably a scene with a dancer who was topless except for pasties). The British release is now the one in general circulation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There was a casting tug-of-war between Selznick and Carol Reed. Reed wanted Orson Welles from the start but Selznick didn't think Welles had enough appeal and tired to push Creator/CaryGrant for the role, before Reed won out. Reed's first choice for Holly Martins was Creator/JimmyStewart, but Creator/JosephCotten got the nod because he was under contract to Selznick.

to:

** There was a casting tug-of-war between Selznick and Carol Reed. Reed wanted Orson Welles from the start but Selznick didn't think Welles had enough appeal and tired tried to push Creator/CaryGrant for the role, before Reed won out. Reed's first choice for Holly Martins was Creator/JimmyStewart, but Creator/JosephCotten got the nod because he was under contract to Selznick.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There was a casting tug-of-war between Selznick and Carol Reed. Reed wanted Orson Welles from the start but Selznick didn't think Welles had enough appeal and tired to push Creator/CaryGrant for the role, before Reed won out. Reed's first choice for Holly Martins was Creator/JimmyStewart, but Creator/JosephCotten got the nod because was under contract to Selznick.

to:

** There was a casting tug-of-war between Selznick and Carol Reed. Reed wanted Orson Welles from the start but Selznick didn't think Welles had enough appeal and tired to push Creator/CaryGrant for the role, before Reed won out. Reed's first choice for Holly Martins was Creator/JimmyStewart, but Creator/JosephCotten got the nod because he was under contract to Selznick.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ExecutiveMeddling: David O. Selznick tried to micromanage the film from Hollywood, greatly annoying the British creative team. Selznick's main issue was the portrayal of Holly Martins as an AntiHero. He lost that battle, but succeeded at softening the character in the edits for the original American release.



* ThrowItIn: The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.

to:

* ThrowItIn: The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.morality.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen:
** This was intended to be the first of four films co-produced by Alexander Korda and David O. Selznick, but the two constantly clashed and never worked together again.
** There was a casting tug-of-war between Selznick and Carol Reed. Reed wanted Orson Welles from the start but Selznick didn't think Welles had enough appeal and tired to push Creator/CaryGrant for the role, before Reed won out. Reed's first choice for Holly Martins was Creator/JimmyStewart, but Creator/JosephCotten got the nod because was under contract to Selznick.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
new subtrope


* MoneyDearBoy: Creator/OrsonWelles [[OneForTheMoneyOneForTheArt took the role as Harry Lime in order to fund his film adaptation]] of ''Film/{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.

to:

* MoneyDearBoy: OneForTheMoneyOneForTheArt: Creator/OrsonWelles [[OneForTheMoneyOneForTheArt took the role as Harry Lime in order to fund his film adaptation]] of ''Film/{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Despite only appearing in the latter third of the movie, Harry Lime became such a popular character that a prequel RadioDrama series with Lime as the protagonist (played again by Welles) was produced in 1951-52.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MoneyDearBoy: Creator/OrsonWelles took the role as Harry Lime in order to fund his film adaptation of ''Film/{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.

to:

* MoneyDearBoy: Creator/OrsonWelles [[OneForTheMoneyOneForTheArt took the role as Harry Lime in order to fund his film adaptation adaptation]] of ''Film/{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BFILists/BFITop100BritishFilms: #1.

to:

* BFILists/BFITop100BritishFilms: UsefulNotes/BFITop100BritishFilms: #1.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BigNameFan: RogerEbert ''loved'' [[https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-third-man-1949 this movie]], and included in his [[RogerEbertGreatMoviesList Great Movies Essays]]. He later said it was one of the [[https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/ten-greatest-films-of-all-time 10 greatest films ever made.]]

to:

* BigNameFan: RogerEbert Creator/RogerEbert ''loved'' [[https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-third-man-1949 this movie]], and included in his [[RogerEbertGreatMoviesList Great Movies Essays]]. He later said it was one of the [[https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/ten-greatest-films-of-all-time 10 greatest films ever made.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BigNameFan: RogerEbert ''loved'' [[https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-third-man-1949 this movie]], and included in his [[RogerEbertGreatMoviesList Great Movies Essays]]. He later said it was one of the [[https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/ten-greatest-films-of-all-time 10 greatest films ever made.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* RealitySubtext: Graham Greene used to work for British Intelligence in WW2, where his boss and friend was the DoubleAgent Kim Philby. It's been speculated that Lime (a charismatic yet amoral friend secretly working for Soviet Intelligence) reflected underlying suspicions Graham had of Philby. In a particular irony, after Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean fled to Moscow to escape arrest, Philby fell under suspicion of being "the third man" in their spy ring.

to:

* RealitySubtext: Graham Greene used to work for British Intelligence in WW2, [=WW2=], where his boss and friend was the DoubleAgent Kim Philby. It's been speculated that Lime (a charismatic yet amoral friend secretly working for Soviet Intelligence) reflected underlying suspicions Graham had of Philby. In a particular irony, after Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean fled to Moscow to escape arrest, Philby fell under suspicion of being "the third man" in their spy ring.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The actors chosen for the part would disagree, I believe.


* ThrowItIn: The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen:
** Creator/CaryGrant was considered for Holly or Harry. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) despite David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded Creator/JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.
** Carol Reed originally wanted Creator/NoelCoward for Harry Lime.
** The original script included a return appearance by Basil Radford and Naunton Wayne as Charters and Caldicott, the two English cricket enthusiasts who first appeared in Creator/AlfredHitchcock's ''Film/TheLadyVanishes'', and later in Carol Reed's ''Night Train to Munich'' (1940). However, the two characters were streamlined into the role of Mr. Crabbin

to:

* ThrowItIn: The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen:
** Creator/CaryGrant was considered for Holly or Harry. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) despite David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded Creator/JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.
** Carol Reed originally wanted Creator/NoelCoward for Harry Lime.
** The original script included a return appearance by Basil Radford and Naunton Wayne as Charters and Caldicott, the two English cricket enthusiasts who first appeared in Creator/AlfredHitchcock's ''Film/TheLadyVanishes'', and later in Carol Reed's ''Night Train to Munich'' (1940). However, the two characters were streamlined into the role of Mr. Crabbin
morality.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Creator/CaryGrant was considered for Holly or Harry. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) despite David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded Joseph Cotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.

to:

** Creator/CaryGrant was considered for Holly or Harry. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) despite David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded Joseph Cotten, Creator/JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BFILists/BFITop100BritishFilms: #1.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ActorInspiredElement / WrittenByCastmember: The cuckoo clock speech wasn't in the original script. It was suggested by Creator/OrsonWelles, inspired by a Hungarian play.

to:

* ActorInspiredElement / WrittenByCastmember: WrittenByCastMember: The cuckoo clock speech wasn't in the original script. It was suggested by Creator/OrsonWelles, inspired by a Hungarian play.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ActorInspiredElement / WrittenByCastmember: The cuckoo clock speech wasn't in the original script. It was suggested by Creator/OrsonWelles, inspired by a Hungarian play.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* InternationalCoproduction: This was a British movie largely filmed in Austria with David O. Selznick as an uncredited American co-producer.

Added: 1659

Changed: 557

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BillingDisplacement: The video edition has Creator/OrsonWelles alone on the cover, even though Welles only features in the last 20 minutes or so, and his appearance is supposed to be a reveal. Joseph Cotten is the actual star, although he does get top billing.
* CreativeDifferences: During the shooting of the film, the final scene was the subject of a dispute between Creator/GrahamGreene, who wanted the happy ending of the novella, and Carol Reed and David O. Selznick, who stubbornly refused to end the film on what they felt was an artificially happy note. Greene later wrote: "One of the very few major disputes between Carol Reed and myself concerned the ending, and he has been proved triumphantly right."



* WhatCouldHaveBeen: Creator/CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of Creator/OrsonWelles over David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded Joseph Cotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.

to:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: WhatCouldHaveBeen:
**
Creator/CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. for Holly or Harry. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of Creator/OrsonWelles over despite David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded Joseph Cotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.out.
** Carol Reed originally wanted Creator/NoelCoward for Harry Lime.
** The original script included a return appearance by Basil Radford and Naunton Wayne as Charters and Caldicott, the two English cricket enthusiasts who first appeared in Creator/AlfredHitchcock's ''Film/TheLadyVanishes'', and later in Carol Reed's ''Night Train to Munich'' (1940). However, the two characters were streamlined into the role of Mr. Crabbin
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.

to:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant Creator/CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles Creator/OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's David O. Selznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, Joseph Cotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.time. Selznick also suggested Creator/RobertMitchum, but the actor's arrest for marijuana possession ruled him out.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* OneHitWonder: "The Third Man Theme" was Anton Karas' only hit. A full soundtrack album was ready for release when the film premiered, but wasn't released at the time due to lack of interest. While the film brought Karas a lot of attention, he wasn't really interested in being a performing star and eventually retired from the limelight.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.

to:

* ThrowItIn: The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* The hotel manager points in the wrong directions when talking about Heaven and Hell due to the actor's trouble speaking English, which Reed loved as a symbol of post-war Vienna's skewed morality.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Hey Its That Guy and Hey Its That Voice examples are being cut per TRS.


* HeyItsThatGuy:
** Sergeant Paine is [[Film/JamesBond the original M]].
** A number of famous Austrian and German actors appear in small parts, including Paul Hörbiger as the Hausmeister (janitor). Dr. Winkel is played by Erich Ponto, who played Peachum in the original production of the Threepenny Opera, and Baron Kurtz by Ernst Deutsch, the Rabbi's assistant from the 1920 movie ''[[Film/TheGolem Der Golem, wie er in die Welt kam]]''.



* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.

to:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's strident objections. Similarly, Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AFIS100YearsSeries:
** AFIS100Years100Movies: #57
** AFIS100Years100Thrills: #75
** AFIS100Years100Movies:
*** #37 Villain, Harry Lime
** AFIS10Top10:
*** #5, Mystery
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's strident objections. Similarly, JamesStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.

to:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's strident objections. Similarly, JamesStewart Creator/JimmyStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* RealitySubtext: Graham Greene used to work for British Intelligence in WW2, where his boss and friend was the DoubleAgent Kim Philby. It's been speculated that Lime (a charismatic yet amoral friend secretly working for Soviet Intelligence) reflected underlying suspicions Graham had of Philby. In a particular irony, after Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean fled to Moscow to escape arrest, Philby fell under suspicion of being "the third man" in their spy ring.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: CaryGrant was the first actor considered to play Lime. For reasons unknown, he was passed over (apparently, though, he was still a frequent visitor to the London studio shooting sessions) in favor of OrsonWelles over DavidOSelznick's strident objections. Similarly, JamesStewart was first considered to play Holly Martins -- here Selznick won, as he demanded JosephCotten, who was under contract to Selznik at the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Sergeant Paine is [[JamesBond the original M]].

to:

** Sergeant Paine is [[JamesBond [[Film/JamesBond the original M]].



* MoneyDearBoy: OrsonWelles took the role as Harry Lime in order to fund his film adaptation of ''{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.

to:

* MoneyDearBoy: OrsonWelles Creator/OrsonWelles took the role as Harry Lime in order to fund his film adaptation of ''{{Othello}}''.''Film/{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MoneyDearBoy: OrsonWelles as Harry Lime.

to:

* MoneyDearBoy: OrsonWelles took the role as Harry Lime.Lime in order to fund his film adaptation of ''{{Othello}}''. Also crosses over into WhatMightHaveBeen, in that Welles was offered either a straight paycheck or a third of the film's gross. He took the paycheck (being desperate for cash), but considering how huge a hit the movie was, had he taken the percentage, he might never have had to do paycheck work again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MoneyDearBoy: OrsonWelles as Harry Lime.

Top