History Trivia / CitizenKane

3rd Apr '18 2:19:26 PM CaptEquinox
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** In the long-run, Hearst's persecution of Welles and sabotage of the film's release permanently linked him with Kane, to the extent that a biography of his life is titled "Citizen Hearst", and Kane's satirical depiction of Hearst as this controlling frustrated politician became how people remember Hearst. Most biographers argue that Hearst was not really as much of a ByronicHero as Kane is, nor such a BastardBoyfriend, likewise, Hearst's good deeds such as his championing of George Herriman's ''ComicStrip/KrazyKat'' and other comics artists is forgotten in favor of his association with the Yellow Press.

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** In the long-run, Hearst's persecution of Welles and sabotage of the film's release permanently linked him with Kane, to the extent that a biography of his life is titled "Citizen Hearst", and Kane's satirical depiction of Hearst as this controlling frustrated politician became how people remember Hearst. Most biographers argue that Hearst was not really as much of a ByronicHero as Kane is, nor such a BastardBoyfriend, likewise, Hearst's good deeds such as his championing of George Herriman's ''ComicStrip/KrazyKat'' ''ComicStrip/KrazyKat'', E.C. Segar's ''ComicStrip/ThimbleTheater'' (which gave us ''Popeye'') and other comics artists is forgotten in favor of his association with the Yellow Press.
27th Mar '18 10:13:43 AM DrOO7
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** AFIS100Years100MovieQuotes: #17

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** AFIS100Years100MovieQuotes: #17#17, "Rosebud".
6th Mar '18 7:34:33 PM nombretomado
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* BreakthroughHit: For Creator/OrsonWelles. Also for Music/BernardHerrmann, who had been a music composer for the Mercury Theater, went to Hollywood along with Welles and the actors, composed the music to ''Citizen Kane'' as his very first film score, and went on to become one of [[PsychoStrings the most successful]] [[Film/{{Vertigo}} film composers]] [[TaxiDriver in movie history]].

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* BreakthroughHit: For Creator/OrsonWelles. Also for Music/BernardHerrmann, who had been a music composer for the Mercury Theater, went to Hollywood along with Welles and the actors, composed the music to ''Citizen Kane'' as his very first film score, and went on to become one of [[PsychoStrings the most successful]] [[Film/{{Vertigo}} film composers]] [[TaxiDriver [[Film/TaxiDriver in movie history]].
8th Oct '17 6:13:57 PM MagBas
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* CommonKnowledge:
** People assume Marion Davies had a bad career, as her expy in the film shows. In fact, Marion Davies was widely considered [[Film/ShowPeople a talented actress and comedienne]], independent of all the publicity Hearst arranged for her. Hearst did push Davies towards melodramatic leading-lady roles, despite performing better in light comedy. Ironically, Welles and Mankiewicz claimed that they made Susan so talentless to ensure she ''wasn't'' confused with Marion Davies. Instead, the opposite happened.
** Likewise, everyone feels that this film was a satire on Hearst and Hearst alone. In truth, the film was intended to be a general satire and tragedy of UsefulNotes/TheAmericanDream and the resemblances to Hearst came about largely because screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz was a regular at Hearst's parties and knew him well. Both he and Welles included details from several American tycoons like Samuel Insull and Howard Hughes in addition to Hearst. Likewise, Welles himself never intended the film to be a TakeThat on Hearst, indeed the drafts of the screenplay credited to him show that it was Welles who made Kane more sympathetic and that the original screenplay was a good deal more anti-Hearst.
** Everyone from [[http://www.paulrossen.com/paulinekael/raisingkane.html Pauline Kael]] to [[http://www.cracked.com/article_16625_8-classic-movies-that-got-away-with-gaping-plot-holes_p2.html Cracked]] claims that no one actually heard Kane's last words, therefore the whole "Rosebud" mystery is a plot hole. In reality, Raymond the Butler tells the journalist that he was present during Kane's death, so presumably he heard "Rosebud" himself.
** There's also Kael's claim that Herman Mankiewicz wrote the entire script himself, and that Welles unfairly took credit. Despite [[http://www.popoptiq.com/kael-vs-kane-pauline-kael-orson-welles-authorship-citizen-kane/ being thoroughly debunked]] by Robert L. Carringer, Peter Bogdanovich and others, this argument's still repeated by credulous film buffs.
** Likewise, many, see the Hearst controversy as really ending Welles' career and see the film's bad reception as single-handedly stifling a great talent a la TallPoppySyndrome. The truth is that Film/CitizenKane, while criticized and seen as attracting unwanted attention from a powerful man, was a highly respected production in Hollywood at the time. Yes it was booed at the Oscars, but it was also nominated for the awards, and Welles won an Oscar (with Mankiewicz) for his screenplay. The film was admired for its technical brilliance and Welles had enough admirers to balance out others who disliked him. It was Film/TheMagnificentAmbersons that truly tarnished his reputation, since unlike Kane (which had a smooth, competent production), Ambersons was a famous mess and more or less made sure that Welles would never have AuteurLicense again.
1st Aug '17 3:25:27 AM CaptEquinox
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to:

\n* There actually is [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBjCUYrdSxo an operatic version]] of Flaubert's ''Salammbô''. Written in 1900, it's by Ernest Reyer. There have been two or three others. Rachmaninoff and Mussorgsky had a go at it, too, but Reyer's is the best known. Presumably they either didn't know about it or it wouldn't have worked for other reasons; possibly because the title role is sung by a mezzo-soprano (deeper register) and they needed something Susan (and Dorothy) couldn't tackle.

14th Apr '17 6:03:10 PM CumbersomeTercel
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Added DiffLines:

* StreisandEffect: Most people today, outside of specialists in mass media, know Hearst largely for his association with this film. Ironically, at the time, Hearst somewhat aware of this trope as a result of his yellow journalism origins, tried to avoid it by refusing to mention the film: rather than rail against it or say that it was terrible, Hearst ordered his newspapers to not mention it at all. This is thought to be a primary reason for its failure, that and bribing distributors not to play it in many theatres.
** In the long-run, Hearst's persecution of Welles and sabotage of the film's release permanently linked him with Kane, to the extent that a biography of his life is titled "Citizen Hearst", and Kane's satirical depiction of Hearst as this controlling frustrated politician became how people remember Hearst. Most biographers argue that Hearst was not really as much of a ByronicHero as Kane is, nor such a BastardBoyfriend, likewise, Hearst's good deeds such as his championing of George Herriman's ''ComicStrip/KrazyKat'' and other comics artists is forgotten in favor of his association with the Yellow Press.
** Creator/SamuelFuller who worked with the Hearst Press in his youth and later became a film-maker (and who also admired Welles) noted that the real Hearst was not like Kane at all, arguing that Hearst was neither as personally aloof or a ControlFreak. Even Welles scholar Jonathan Rosenbaum noted that Xanadu was a ShallowParody of Hearst's estate San Simeon. He noted upon visiting San Simeon that contrary to the extravagant, gaudy and tacky Xanadu, San Simeon is actually reflective of good aesthetic taste. Incidentally, in 2012, Hearst's descendants actually screened [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/jan/24/citizen-kane-screening-hearst-castle Kane at San Simeon]] in part to posthumously bury the hatchet, but also to highlight to visitors how different San Simeon was from Xanadu.
** Welles for his part regretted the damage the film may have done to Marion Davies' reputation since he greatly admired her work in Creator/KingVidor's classic ''Film/ShowPeople''. He also said that he intended Kane to be a larger-than-life media tycoon figure rather than based solely on Hearst, who he did not have [[NothingPersonal any personal grudge]] against.
14th Apr '17 6:00:53 PM CumbersomeTercel
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* DyeingForYourArt: To simulate heavy drunkenness, Cotten stayed awake for 24 straight hours, resulting in some unscripted flubbery (that caused Welles to grin despite himself).

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* DyeingForYourArt: To simulate heavy drunkenness, Cotten Creator/JosephCotten stayed awake for 24 straight hours, resulting in some unscripted flubbery (that caused Welles to grin despite himself).



** Joseph Cotten went on to a long and very successful career as a leading man and character actor in Hollywood.

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** Joseph Cotten Creator/JosephCotten went on to a long and very successful career as a leading man and character actor in Hollywood.



* ThrowItIn: Joseph Cotten stumbling over the word "criticism". It was a genuine flub, but fortunately both he and Welles stayed in character (albeit Welles grins) and Cotten follows up with a brilliant ad-lib "I AM drunk", so it stayed in the film as-is.

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* ThrowItIn: Joseph Cotten Creator/JosephCotten stumbling over the word "criticism". It was a genuine flub, but fortunately both he and Welles stayed in character (albeit Welles grins) and Cotten follows up with a brilliant ad-lib "I AM drunk", so it stayed in the film as-is.
11th Apr '17 2:27:56 PM CaptEquinox
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** Welles himself is an interesting aversion. He was a star since age 16, and became famous for his theatre and [[Radio/TheWarOfTheWorlds radio]], and had in fact made three films prior to this (a bizarre short in 1934, a 40-minute film that was intended to be part of a hybrid stage play/movie performance in 1938, and he narrated a version of Swiss Family Robinson a year before Kane came out). As an actor, Welles came to be in demand for playing sinister anti-hero/villains and specialized in OneSceneWonder but as a director he struggled to find funding for his works. As such Welles found greater demand as an actor than as a director.

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** Welles himself is an interesting aversion. He An acknowledged [[ChildProdigy child genius]], he was a theatrical star since age 16, and became famous for his theatre and [[Radio/TheWarOfTheWorlds radio]], and radio]]. He had in fact made three films prior to this (a bizarre short in 1934, a 40-minute film that was intended to be part of a hybrid stage play/movie performance in 1938, and he narrated a version of Swiss ''Swiss Family Robinson Robinson'' a year before Kane came out). As an actor, Welles came to be in demand for playing sinister anti-hero/villains and specialized in OneSceneWonder but as a director he struggled to find funding for his works. As such Welles found greater demand as an actor than as a director.
31st Mar '17 6:22:36 PM YgothanEru
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** Likewise, many, see the Hearst controversy as really ending Welles' career and see the film's bad reception as single-handedly stifling a great talent a la TallPoppySyndrome. The truth is that Film/CitizenKane while criticized and seen as attracting unwanted attention from a powerful man, was a highly respected production in Hollywood at the time. Yes it was booed at the Oscars, but it was also nominated for the awards, and Welles won an Oscar (with Mankiewicz) for his screenplay. The film was admired for its technical brilliance and Welles had enough admirers to balance out others who disliked him. It was Film/TheMagnificentAmbersons that truly tarnished his reputation, since unlike Kane (which had a smooth, competent production), Ambersons was a famous mess and more or less made sure that Welles would never have AuteurLicense again.

to:

** Likewise, many, see the Hearst controversy as really ending Welles' career and see the film's bad reception as single-handedly stifling a great talent a la TallPoppySyndrome. The truth is that Film/CitizenKane Film/CitizenKane, while criticized and seen as attracting unwanted attention from a powerful man, was a highly respected production in Hollywood at the time. Yes it was booed at the Oscars, but it was also nominated for the awards, and Welles won an Oscar (with Mankiewicz) for his screenplay. The film was admired for its technical brilliance and Welles had enough admirers to balance out others who disliked him. It was Film/TheMagnificentAmbersons that truly tarnished his reputation, since unlike Kane (which had a smooth, competent production), Ambersons was a famous mess and more or less made sure that Welles would never have AuteurLicense again.
31st Mar '17 6:19:00 PM YgothanEru
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** Likewise, everyone feel that this film was a satire on Hearst and Hearst alone. In truth, the film was intended to be a general satire and tragedy of UsefulNotes/TheAmericanDream and the resemblances to Hearst came about largely because screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz was a regular at Hearst's parties and knew him well. Both he and Welles included details from several American tycoons like Samuel Insull and Howard Hughes in addition to Hearst. Likewise, Welles himself never intended the film to be a TakeThat on Hearst, indeed the drafts of the screenplay credited to him show that it was Welles who made Kane more sympathetic and that the original screenplay was a good deal more anti-Hearst.

to:

** Likewise, everyone feel feels that this film was a satire on Hearst and Hearst alone. In truth, the film was intended to be a general satire and tragedy of UsefulNotes/TheAmericanDream and the resemblances to Hearst came about largely because screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz was a regular at Hearst's parties and knew him well. Both he and Welles included details from several American tycoons like Samuel Insull and Howard Hughes in addition to Hearst. Likewise, Welles himself never intended the film to be a TakeThat on Hearst, indeed the drafts of the screenplay credited to him show that it was Welles who made Kane more sympathetic and that the original screenplay was a good deal more anti-Hearst.
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