History TimeyWimeyBall / DoctorWho

31st Jan '16 1:25:44 PM Metz77
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** Of course, if you're obsessive enough, you can explain away that retcon by constructing a whole new season of stories, causing all sorts of new problems with other continuity. Needless to say, fans have already done this.

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** Of course, if you're obsessive enough, you can explain This was eventually explained away that retcon by constructing a whole new season the "Season 6B" fan-theory-turned-official-explanation, which has the Time Lord Celestial Intervention Agency scooping up the Doctor after his trial and forcing him to run missions for them, culminating in his regeneration and the beginning of stories, causing all sorts of new problems with other continuity. Needless to say, fans have already done this.Season 7.
27th Dec '15 4:38:19 PM wonkeymonkey
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** Also this episode features time travel that dives int TheMultiverse theory, when the doctor changes an event on his own timeline. (namely, the end of the time war) There's a hint that this was how it always was afterwards due to the lack of negative consequences, and the fact that the universe perceived that time was unchanged. The other super timey wimey moment was that it took 13 different doctors to make it work, including one that could only exist thanks to the events of the NEXT episode.

to:

** Also this episode features time travel that dives int into TheMultiverse theory, when the doctor changes an event on his own timeline. (namely, the end of the time war) There's a hint that this was how it always was afterwards due to the lack of negative consequences, and the fact that the universe perceived that time was unchanged. The other super timey wimey moment was that it took 13 different doctors to make it work, including one that could only exist thanks to the events of the NEXT episode.
25th Dec '15 11:25:16 PM Arcorann
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* In "The Five Doctors", the Doctors remember their previous encounters with each other. Two also remembers Omega just fine. And he knows that Jamie and Zoe had [[spoiler: their minds wiped]], even though that happened just before he turned into Three, so there's no way for him to be aware of that when he's just travelling about freely. Don't think about it too hard.
** Of course, if you're obsessive enough, you can explain away that retcon by constructing a whole new season of stories, causing all sorts of new problems with other continuity. Needless to say, fans have already done this.
* When the 10th and 5th Doctors meet up during the Children in Need Special "Time Crash", the 10th is in shocked disbelief to be seeing his former self, then goes on to use memories he picked up as the 5th meeting his future self to defuse the situation. When the illogic of this is brought up (not to mention the violation of multi-doctor meet up {{Canon}} established from the other 3 times this has happened), ''both'' Doctors mumble something about "Timey Wimey" and move on.

to:

* In "The Five Doctors", the Doctors remember their previous encounters with each other. Two also remembers Omega just fine. And he knows that Jamie and Zoe had [[spoiler: their minds wiped]], even though that happened just before he turned into Three, so there's no way for him to be aware of that when he's just travelling about freely. Don't think about it too hard.
** Of course, if you're obsessive enough, you can explain away that retcon by constructing a whole new season of stories, causing all sorts of new problems with other continuity. Needless to say, fans have already done this.
* When the 10th and 5th Doctors meet up during the Children in Need Special "Time Crash", the 10th is in shocked disbelief to be seeing his former self, then goes on to use memories he picked up as the 5th meeting his future self to defuse the situation. When the illogic of this is brought up (not to mention the violation of multi-doctor meet up {{Canon}} established from the other 3 times this has happened), ''both'' Doctors mumble something about "Timey Wimey" and move on.

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:General]]



* In "The Fires of Pompeii", a companion asks why the Doctor will thwart aliens but not stop a particular historical catastrophe, and the Doctor replies that some points in time are fixed, while others are in flux. His being a Time Lord allows him to perceive which is which, and act accordingly; even against his nobler instincts. It's revealed in the climax that the reason he can't change the catastrophe is because [[YouAlreadyChangedThePast he's the one responsible for making it happen]].

to:

* In "The Fires of Pompeii", a companion asks why To add to the Doctor weirdness that is time-travel in ''Series/DoctorWho'', look at its opinion on the Blinovitch Limitation Effect. In some cases it seems to suggest that NeverTheSelvesShallMeet, lest they cause reality to shatter. Or maybe that's only if there's another paradox nearby. Sometimes it causes memory loss if the two touch, like what happened to TheBrigadier. Maybe the same object touching will thwart aliens but not stop a particular historical catastrophe, and the Doctor replies that some points in time are fixed, while others are in flux. His being a Time Lord allows him to perceive which is which, and act accordingly; even against his nobler instincts. just cause sparks. Or maybe nothing will happen at all except flirting. It's revealed in just whatever happens to work for the climax that the reason he can't change the catastrophe is because [[YouAlreadyChangedThePast he's the one responsible for making it happen]].plot.



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Original Series]]
* In "The Five Doctors", the Doctors remember their previous encounters with each other. Two also remembers Omega just fine. And he knows that Jamie and Zoe had [[spoiler: their minds wiped]], even though that happened just before he turned into Three, so there's no way for him to be aware of that when he's just travelling about freely. Don't think about it too hard.
** Of course, if you're obsessive enough, you can explain away that retcon by constructing a whole new season of stories, causing all sorts of new problems with other continuity. Needless to say, fans have already done this.
* Perhaps the earliest use of this in the series is "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E7TheSpaceMuseum The Space Museum]]". The First Doctor and his companions arrive at a planet with a space museum in it, but due to the TARDIS "jumping a time track", they arrive JustOneSecondOutOfSync, rendering them invisible and inaudible to anyone else. While there, they see themselves trapped in museum display cases. When their InvisibleMainCharacter status wears off, the cases go away, they're still inside the museum, and have to escape or otherwise find a way to avoid the fate they saw for themselves. The Doctor claims that time has alternatives.
* [[Recap/DoctorWhoS9E1DayOfTheDaleks "Day of the Daleks"]] may have been the TropeCodifier for TimeyWimeyBall in Doctor Who. Guerrillas from an alternate 22nd century try to assassinate Sir Reginald Styles to prevent him disrupting a peace conference, which caused wars enabling the Daleks to invade Earth. In the process, they [[StableTimeLoop disrupt the conference]] themselves. However, the Doctor is able to travel back from this alternate future and stop the guerrillas.
* "Pyramids of Mars" has the Doctor show Sarah Jane how time has its alternatives. Even though Sarah Jane is from 1980 and knows the world wasn't destroyed in 1911 by [[OmnicidalManiac Sutekh]], the Doctor takes her to 1980 and shows Earth has been destroyed as they didn't stop Sutekh escaping. This is partly accounted for, the Doctor says individuals can shape the future but only [[PhysicalGod powerful beings]] like Sutekh can destroy it.
* The Doctor recognizes the Sontarans in ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS11E1TheTimeWarrior The Time Warrior]]'', complete with asking about their interminable war against Rutan Host, despite them never appearing in the series before. It's shown ''12 years later'' that the Second Doctor had [[Recap/DoctorWhoS22E4TheTwoDoctors encountered them before]], along with the Sixth Doctor.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Revival Series]]
* In the first season finale of the NS, the Doctor says that the TARDIS protects itself from paradox. Whenever and wherever the TARDIS lands, the events that led it to go there, and led to the world it's in once it's there, become unalterable.
* When the 10th and 5th Doctors meet up during the Children in Need Special "Time Crash", the 10th is in shocked disbelief to be seeing his former self, then goes on to use memories he picked up as the 5th meeting his future self to defuse the situation. When the illogic of this is brought up (not to mention the violation of multi-doctor meet up {{Canon}} established from the other 3 times this has happened), ''both'' Doctors mumble something about "Timey Wimey" and move on.
* In "The Fires of Pompeii", a companion asks why the Doctor will thwart aliens but not stop a particular historical catastrophe, and the Doctor replies that some points in time are fixed, while others are in flux. His being a Time Lord allows him to perceive which is which, and act accordingly; even against his nobler instincts. It's revealed in the climax that the reason he can't change the catastrophe is because [[YouAlreadyChangedThePast he's the one responsible for making it happen]].



* The novels have an equally insane version, in which the 8th Doctor (infected by [[TheVirus Faction Paradox biodata]]) ends up interfering slightly in the life of the 3rd Doctor, [[TemporalParadox leading to him regenerating on the wrong planet and being infected by Faction Paradox biodata]]. Of course, Literature/FactionParadox live and breathe this trope (as well as TemporalParadox) at the best of times. It's their [[PlanetOfHats hat]].
* The Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures had the concept that Time itself was a sentient entity who consciously fixed various timeline hiccups resulting from time travel with the Doctor as her champion.
* In the first season finale of the NS, the Doctor says that the TARDIS protects itself from paradox. Whenever and wherever the TARDIS lands, the events that led it to go there, and led to the world it's in once it's there, become unalterable.



* ''A Christmas Carol'' also features this heavily. [[spoiler: It starts with the Doctor showing a video Kazran made as a boy to the older him - and traveling back in time to when he made it, leaving Kazran watching a video of the Doctor interfering in his past as his own memories change to reflect that this had happened. Kazran then has memories of not growing up while being visited by the Doctor, and memories of being visited by the Doctor. He then ponders how he's never met the Doctor before tonight, but seems to have known him all his life. It ends with the Doctor showing the [[FutureMeScaresMe younger Kazran the man he turns into]], leading to the older one having a change of heart partly brought on by realizing he's turned into his father, and partly by him being retroactively altered by the experience of being horrified at seeing his older self as a boy.]] ''Oof.'' It's implied this method is far from perfect, as [[spoiler: Kazran's own mind-reading controls no longer recognize him, despite the fact that they should logically have been programmed for the Kazran that existed in the current timeline.]] I think it's that the Doctor [[spoiler: changed the boy as well as the man. Hypothetically, Boy Kazran went through all the stuff that Scrooge Kazran did, but had the additional factor of seeing Scrooge Kazran and never wanted to become like he was.]] Presto Change-O and immediate echoes into the future... [[spoiler:his brain waves change - creating a new Kazran who both experienced Abigail ''and'' Scrooge Kazran and ''also'' maybe even at one point of the new history we didn't see ''rejected his father'' (so no actual mind control for him was made).]] Who knows? It is a TimeyWimeyBall after all

to:

* ''A Christmas Carol'' also features this heavily. [[spoiler: It starts with the Doctor showing a video Kazran made as a boy to the older him - and traveling back in time to when he made it, leaving Kazran watching a video of the Doctor interfering in his past as his own memories change to reflect that this had happened. Kazran then has memories of not growing up while being visited by the Doctor, and memories of being visited by the Doctor. He then ponders how he's never met the Doctor before tonight, but seems to have known him all his life. It ends with the Doctor showing the [[FutureMeScaresMe younger Kazran the man he turns into]], leading to the older one having a change of heart partly brought on by realizing he's turned into his father, and partly by him being retroactively altered by the experience of being horrified at seeing his older self as a boy.]] ''Oof.'' It's implied this method is far from perfect, as [[spoiler: Kazran's own mind-reading controls no longer recognize him, despite the fact that they should logically have been programmed for the Kazran that existed in the current timeline.]] I think it's that the Doctor [[spoiler: changed the boy as well as the man. Hypothetically, Boy Kazran went through all the stuff that Scrooge Kazran did, but had the additional factor of seeing Scrooge Kazran and never wanted to become like he was.]] Presto Change-O and immediate echoes into the future... [[spoiler:his brain waves change - creating a new Kazran who both experienced Abigail ''and'' Scrooge Kazran and ''also'' maybe even at one point of the new history we didn't see ''rejected his father'' (so no actual mind control for him was made).]] Who knows? It is a TimeyWimeyBall after allall.



* To add to the weirdness that is time-travel in ''Series/DoctorWho'', look at its opinion on the Blinovitch Limitation Effect. In some cases it seems to suggest that NeverTheSelvesShallMeet, lest they cause reality to shatter. Or maybe that's only if there's another paradox nearby. Sometimes it causes memory loss if the two touch, like what happened to TheBrigadier. Maybe the same object touching will just cause sparks. Or maybe nothing will happen at all except flirting. It's just whatever happens to work for the plot.



* Perhaps the earliest use of this in the series is "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E7TheSpaceMuseum The Space Museum]]". The First Doctor and his companions arrive at a planet with a space museum in it, but due to the TARDIS "jumping a time track", they arrive JustOneSecondOutOfSync, rendering them invisible and inaudible to anyone else. While there, they see themselves trapped in museum display cases. When their InvisibleMainCharacter status wears off, the cases go away, they're still inside the museum, and have to escape or otherwise find a way to avoid the fate they saw for themselves. The Doctor claims that time has alternatives.
* [[Recap/DoctorWhoS9E1DayOfTheDaleks "Day of the Daleks"]] may have been the TropeCodifier for TimeyWimeyBall in Doctor Who. Guerrillas from an alternate 22nd century try to assassinate Sir Reginald Styles to prevent him disrupting a peace conference, which caused wars enabling the Daleks to invade Earth. In the process, they [[StableTimeLoop disrupt the conference]] themselves. However, the Doctor is able to travel back from this alternate future and stop the guerrillas.
* "Pyramids of Mars" has the Doctor show Sarah Jane how time has its alternatives. Even though Sarah Jane is from 1980 and knows the world wasn't destroyed in 1911 by [[OmnicidalManiac Sutekh]], the Doctor takes her to 1980 and shows Earth has been destroyed as they didn't stop Sutekh escaping. This is partly accounted for, the Doctor says individuals can shape the future but only [[PhysicalGod powerful beings]] like Sutekh can destroy it.
* AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho was using this trope from early on. The 8th Doctor saving Charlotte Pollard from her death on the R101 causes a paradox, meaning anti-time starts infecting the Universe, causing odd things with history to happen during the 8th Doctor audio stories leading up to Zagreus. For example, Shakespeare has disappeared from history (which is explained in "Time of the Daleks") and Benjamin Franklin was President. Finally in "Neverland" Charley helps save the Web of Time, meaning that the paradox and anti-time infection become part of the Web of Time. To complicate matters further, she later travels with the 6th Doctor, even though she shouldn't be alive at his point in the Doctor's timestream.
** "Seasons of Fear" has a very complicated Timey-Wimey Ball. The Doctor goes back in time to stop Sebastian Grayle, because Grayle prompted him in an artificial alternate timeline in which the Doctor hadn't even met him yet. Grayle then develops a hatred for him, eventually leading to him creating an artificial alternate timeline. To make this more complicated it isn't clear how the Doctor met this Sebastian Grayle as in 1806 [[spoiler:Grayle goes back in time and is killed by his past self]].
** "Flip-Flop" features a very odd version of this trope, with an apparently StableTimeLoop between two alternate timelines, meaning there are two 7th Doctor and Mel(s).
** "Jubilee" involves the Doctor going into a divergent universe but about a hundred years after it has diverged, with the Sixth Doctor experiencing FlashSideways and remembering being in a Dalek war a hundred years ago. Then the Doctor ends up accidentally causing the war a hundred years ago in the past that created that [[ForWantOfANail divergent timeline]], only it's actually happening then, as well, because the Doctor's presence caused the timelines to merge, somehow. Then the Dalek survivor of the war a century ago [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath talks the invasion fleet into suicide]], which unmakes the alternate universe and resets the timeline. It makes a lot more emotional sense than it makes logical sense.



[[/folder]]

[[folder:Expanded Universe]]
* The novels have an equally insane version, in which the 8th Doctor (infected by [[TheVirus Faction Paradox biodata]]) ends up interfering slightly in the life of the 3rd Doctor, [[TemporalParadox leading to him regenerating on the wrong planet and being infected by Faction Paradox biodata]]. Of course, Literature/FactionParadox live and breathe this trope (as well as TemporalParadox) at the best of times. It's their [[PlanetOfHats hat]].
* The Literature/DoctorWhoNewAdventures had the concept that Time itself was a sentient entity who consciously fixed various timeline hiccups resulting from time travel with the Doctor as her champion.
* AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho was using this trope from early on. The 8th Doctor saving Charlotte Pollard from her death on the R101 causes a paradox, meaning anti-time starts infecting the Universe, causing odd things with history to happen during the 8th Doctor audio stories leading up to Zagreus. For example, Shakespeare has disappeared from history (which is explained in "Time of the Daleks") and Benjamin Franklin was President. Finally in "Neverland" Charley helps save the Web of Time, meaning that the paradox and anti-time infection become part of the Web of Time. To complicate matters further, she later travels with the 6th Doctor, even though she shouldn't be alive at his point in the Doctor's timestream.
** "Seasons of Fear" has a very complicated Timey-Wimey Ball. The Doctor goes back in time to stop Sebastian Grayle, because Grayle prompted him in an artificial alternate timeline in which the Doctor hadn't even met him yet. Grayle then develops a hatred for him, eventually leading to him creating an artificial alternate timeline. To make this more complicated it isn't clear how the Doctor met this Sebastian Grayle as in 1806 [[spoiler:Grayle goes back in time and is killed by his past self]].
** "Flip-Flop" features a very odd version of this trope, with an apparently StableTimeLoop between two alternate timelines, meaning there are two 7th Doctor and Mel(s).
** "Jubilee" involves the Doctor going into a divergent universe but about a hundred years after it has diverged, with the Sixth Doctor experiencing FlashSideways and remembering being in a Dalek war a hundred years ago. Then the Doctor ends up accidentally causing the war a hundred years ago in the past that created that [[ForWantOfANail divergent timeline]], only it's actually happening then, as well, because the Doctor's presence caused the timelines to merge, somehow. Then the Dalek survivor of the war a century ago [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath talks the invasion fleet into suicide]], which unmakes the alternate universe and resets the timeline. It makes a lot more emotional sense than it makes logical sense.



* The Doctor recognizes the Sontarans in ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS11E1TheTimeWarrior The Time Warrior]]'', complete with asking about their interminable war against Rutan Host, despite them never appearing in the series before. It's shown ''12 years later'' that the Second Doctor had [[Recap/DoctorWhoS22E4TheTwoDoctors encountered them before]], along with the Sixth Doctor.

to:

* The Doctor recognizes the Sontarans in ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS11E1TheTimeWarrior The Time Warrior]]'', complete with asking about their interminable war against Rutan Host, despite them never appearing in the series before. It's shown ''12 years later'' that the Second Doctor had [[Recap/DoctorWhoS22E4TheTwoDoctors encountered them before]], along with the Sixth Doctor.[[/folder]]
22nd May '15 11:07:26 PM EricW
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Added DiffLines:

** Also this episode features time travel that dives int TheMultiverse theory, when the doctor changes an event on his own timeline. (namely, the end of the time war) There's a hint that this was how it always was afterwards due to the lack of negative consequences, and the fact that the universe perceived that time was unchanged. The other super timey wimey moment was that it took 13 different doctors to make it work, including one that could only exist thanks to the events of the NEXT episode.
9th Mar '15 10:21:16 AM LongLiveHumour
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* BigFinishDoctorWho was using this trope from early on. The 8th Doctor saving Charlotte Pollard from her death on the R101 causes a paradox, meaning anti-time starts infecting the Universe, causing odd things with history to happen during the 8th Doctor audio stories leading up to Zagreus. For example, Shakespeare has disappeared from history (which is explained in "Time of the Daleks") and Benjamin Franklin was President. Finally in "Neverland" Charley helps save the Web of Time, meaning that the paradox and anti-time infection become part of the Web of Time. To complicate matters further, she later travels with the 6th Doctor, even though she shouldn't be alive at his point in the Doctor's timestream.

to:

* BigFinishDoctorWho AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho was using this trope from early on. The 8th Doctor saving Charlotte Pollard from her death on the R101 causes a paradox, meaning anti-time starts infecting the Universe, causing odd things with history to happen during the 8th Doctor audio stories leading up to Zagreus. For example, Shakespeare has disappeared from history (which is explained in "Time of the Daleks") and Benjamin Franklin was President. Finally in "Neverland" Charley helps save the Web of Time, meaning that the paradox and anti-time infection become part of the Web of Time. To complicate matters further, she later travels with the 6th Doctor, even though she shouldn't be alive at his point in the Doctor's timestream.
7th Jan '15 4:54:49 PM Ramidel
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** This is even further confused, though, because at the time the Dalek respected the fixed point by not killing a child who would grow to be important in human history, ''they were working on a plan to destroy reality.'' So you can't alter a fixed point, except the Daleks were going to by destroying her along with all of reality.
*** This event ''could'' be explained by the fact that destroying reality would distort events to the point that the fixed points that applied in the original history would no longer apply, whereas killing the child would be denying a fixed point while it still applied to history, [[CaptainObvious which would be bad]], but that's getting into {{WMG}} territory.
*** Of course, the whole "the Dalek was respecting a fixed point in time" thing was just the Doctor's speculation. It's just as easy to assume that the Dalek left the child alone because, at that moment, it was recalled to Davros's flagship in preparation for the detonation of the reality bomb.
20th Nov '14 1:56:07 PM LongLiveHumour
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* The novels have an equally insane version, in which the 8th Doctor (infected by [[TheVirus Faction Paradox biodata]]) ends up interfering slightly in the life of the 3rd Doctor, [[TemporalParadox leading to him regenerating on the wrong planet and being infected by Faction Paradox biodata]]. Of course, FactionParadox live and breathe this trope (as well as TemporalParadox) at the best of times. It's their [[PlanetOfHats hat]].

to:

* The novels have an equally insane version, in which the 8th Doctor (infected by [[TheVirus Faction Paradox biodata]]) ends up interfering slightly in the life of the 3rd Doctor, [[TemporalParadox leading to him regenerating on the wrong planet and being infected by Faction Paradox biodata]]. Of course, FactionParadox Literature/FactionParadox live and breathe this trope (as well as TemporalParadox) at the best of times. It's their [[PlanetOfHats hat]].
19th Nov '14 8:28:17 PM Aomic
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* The Past Doctor Adventure book ''Asylum'' starts off with Nyssa being picked up by a young Fourth Doctor, long after she had departed from the ''Fifth'' Doctor. Both she and he seem embarrassed about the situation and the Doctor specifically asks her not to tell him any details that could lead to a paradox, euphemistically describing it as 'saving it for a nice surprise'. She then discovers that the research she was doing on Roger Bacon has inexplicably changed into research into Isambard Kingdom-Brunel, forcing them to head back in time to Bacon's time to discover what caused the future to change.

to:

* The Past Doctor Adventure book ''Asylum'' starts off with Nyssa being picked up by a young Fourth Doctor, long after she had departed from the ''Fifth'' Doctor. Both she and he seem embarrassed about the situation and the Doctor specifically asks her not to tell him any details that could lead to a paradox, euphemistically describing it as 'saving it for a nice surprise'. She then discovers that the research she was doing on Roger Bacon has inexplicably changed into research into Isambard Kingdom-Brunel, forcing them to head back in time to Bacon's time to discover what caused the future to change.change.
* The Doctor recognizes the Sontarans in ''[[Recap/DoctorWhoS11E1TheTimeWarrior The Time Warrior]]'', complete with asking about their interminable war against Rutan Host, despite them never appearing in the series before. It's shown ''12 years later'' that the Second Doctor had [[Recap/DoctorWhoS22E4TheTwoDoctors encountered them before]], along with the Sixth Doctor.
11th Nov '14 8:02:32 AM Kendrix
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As a rough general rule, StableTimeLoops work, but doing [[GrandfatherParadox something that will prevent you from going back in the first place]] has varying degrees of bad consequences. The specifics, however, are a bit more complicated....

to:

As a rough general rule, StableTimeLoops [[StableTimeLoop Stable Time Loops]] work, but doing [[GrandfatherParadox something that will prevent you from going back in the first place]] has varying degrees of bad consequences. The specifics, however, are a bit more complicated....
11th Nov '14 8:02:05 AM Kendrix
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Added DiffLines:

As a rough general rule, StableTimeLoops work, but doing [[GrandfatherParadox something that will prevent you from going back in the first place]] has varying degrees of bad consequences. The specifics, however, are a bit more complicated....
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=TimeyWimeyBall.DoctorWho