History TheyChangedItNowItSucks / TabletopGames

26th Mar '16 5:48:31 PM WhatRayDid
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** Fifth edition is something of an aversion now that it's been released, having a smaller fan-base than most previous editions but having almost no hate-dom at all.
27th Oct '15 5:13:59 PM HereticalShinigami
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** Recent adherence to release of large Monstrous Creature models over the usual squad-based and vehicle-heavy 40k also has some players annoyed. Imperial Knights, Wraithknights and especially Riptide battlesuits have been appearing on tables in greater numbers, much to the chagrin of players who can't afford a horde of massive creatures. Similar things have also occurred with flyers, which were initially almost invulnerable against ground forces until GW repealed that ban. Still, the late focus on the Tau, who were originally the anime tie-in of the 41st Millenium, has some players crying for a redress, since battlesuit armies are on the rise.
** Other players are also frustrated by the removal of the force organisation chart that originally bound army compositions. Now, players receive a bonus for adhering to the chart, but are otherwise 'unbound', allowing some players to simply field columns of tanks or titans against their opponents. Needless to say, cries of Pay-to-win are not few and far between.
4th Aug '15 1:09:50 PM Tacitus
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** The 2014 "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a retcon like they were following the 2005 Storm of Chaos events.

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** The 2014 "End Times" ''[[TabletopGame/WarhammerTheEndTimes End Times]]'' series is beginning to attract of 2014 caught a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to and not just for the radical changes to gameplay changes. Right from the world it is experimenting with (such as razing start, whole parts of the entirety of Warhammer World like the ancient empire of Khemri or the Imperial capital of Altdorf were razed to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as venerable characters like Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana Morgianna le Fay and Fay, or Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are were being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such dozens after decades of character deaths in the background were almost being unheard of, and many of. Each book added to the bodycount, until the final volume lived up to its name with an [[ApocalypseHow apocalyptic]], KillEmAll ending. Many players have become very attached deliberately ignored the event, expecting a SnapBack to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a retcon status quo like they were following after the 2005 Storm ''Storm of Chaos events.Chaos'' campaign. Except...
** Instead of ''Warhammer'' 9th edition, a new skirmish-level game called ''[[TabletopGame/WarhammerAgeOfSigmar Age of Sigmar]]'' was released in 2015, which confirmed that yes, the ''End Times'' happened, and over thirty years of canon had been chucked out the window to make room for an entirely new setting of [[WritingAroundTrademarks "Orruks," "Aelfs,"]] and the fantastic equivalent of ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}''[='s=] {{Space Marine}}s. Cue the largest BrokenBase in Creator/GamesWorkshop's history, ''Warhammer'' armies appearing on [=eBay=] in droves, and rival gaming system ''TabletopGame/KingsOfWar'' announcing plans to support army lists based on ''Warhammer''[='s=] old factions.
3rd May '15 5:32:36 PM TwentyEight
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* Many classic children's games, such as Mouse Trap, Perfection, and Operation, have been redesigned by Hasbro to be [[MoneyDearBoy cheaper to make]], accessible to younger players, or [[NewAndImproved so they can call it "new."]] Original versions are often sold separately as a deluxe "nostalgia" edition. Cue the butt-clenching from parents and grandparents who want to buy their kids the same games they had at their age.
13th Apr '15 7:06:01 PM emillang1000
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* Without fail, EVERY time a new hardcover book for {{Pathfinder}} comes out, the Paizo blogs are infested with "BLOAT!" threads and the declaration that the game is getting too huge and too complex. Such threads typically pop up like a rash for about a month, and then disappear completely, until the next hardcover comes out.
27th Dec '14 8:49:54 AM TheUnsquished
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* {{Battletech}}. There are still people who rant and fume about the Clan Invasion (which had been foreshadowed for a decade), the Jihad, and reconciling the classic game with the established Mechwarrior Dark Ages storyline.

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* {{Battletech}}.''TabletopGame/BattleTech''. There are still people who rant and fume about the Clan Invasion (which had been foreshadowed for a decade), the Jihad, and reconciling the classic game with the established Mechwarrior Dark Ages storyline.
14th Nov '14 11:13:12 AM Willbyr
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** In a typical fashion, GW changed the models of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, who originally were maximum TheEighties to an army of {{Cute Monster Girl}}s. [[MaleGaze Male players approved]]. Then they changed them ''again'' and now they look less Eighties but extremely hideous. Male players were not amused. Almost needless to say, the old models achieve record prices on Website/{{Ebay}}.

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** In a typical fashion, GW Creator/GamesWorkshop changed the models of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, who originally were maximum TheEighties to an army of {{Cute Monster Girl}}s. [[MaleGaze Male players approved]]. Then they changed them ''again'' and now they look less Eighties but extremely hideous. Male players were not amused. Almost needless to say, the old models achieve record prices on Website/{{Ebay}}.
14th Nov '14 11:12:35 AM Willbyr
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''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'':

to:

''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'':*''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'':



* The 2014 "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a retcon like they were following the 2005 Storm of Chaos events.

to:

* ** The 2014 "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a retcon like they were following the 2005 Storm of Chaos events.
14th Nov '14 11:11:24 AM Willbyr
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* The ''[[http://old-hammer.blogspot.fi/ Oldhammer]]'' movement for ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}''. The Oldhammer players stick to Warhammer 3rd Edition, which is considered by some as the most comprehensive and thorough of all Warhammer Fantasy Battle rules releases, and play it with the appropriate army lists. WHFB 3rd Edition was published 1987.
* The 2014 ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a retcon like they were following the 2005 Storm of Chaos events.
* For ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' players, "They Changed It, Now It's Heresy" is practically a warcry for the fandom. Every time a codex is released or some lore is changed, there is a massive outcry. A huge backlash came from Matt Ward's revision of the Necrons. Many players ''did not'' appreciate the removal of a lot of the scary aspects of their lore, as well as the removal of well-liked units, such as Pariahs. The third design for the Citadel paint pots had a screw top. The top would either get stuck from dried paint, or they'd fail to close properly due to dried paint. Needless to say, the design was awful and the outcry was enormous. When Games Workshop realized that people were buying paint from third-party sources, the classic flip-lid was re-introduced and remains to this day.

to:

* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'':
**
The ''[[http://old-hammer.blogspot.fi/ Oldhammer]]'' movement for ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}''.movement. The Oldhammer players stick to Warhammer 3rd Edition, which is considered by some as the most comprehensive and thorough of all Warhammer Fantasy Battle rules releases, and play it with the appropriate army lists. WHFB 3rd Edition was published 1987.
* The 2014 ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a retcon like they were following the 2005 Storm of Chaos events.
* For ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' players, "They Changed It, Now It's Heresy" is practically a warcry for the fandom. Every time a codex is released or some lore is changed, there is a massive outcry. outcry.
**
A huge backlash came from Matt Ward's revision of the Necrons. Many players ''did not'' appreciate the removal of a lot of the scary aspects of their lore, as well as the removal of well-liked units, such as Pariahs. Pariahs.
** The 2011 Sisters of Battle codex received a very negative reception. Most players felt that the already not-very-powerful Sisters went from "mid-low tier" to "absolutely unplayable." Some of the other changes really led to head-scratching, such as the new Faith system which gives an army 1d6 faith per turn - whether that army is a 500 point skirmish force or a 3000 point massive force. Complaints include failing to scale powers, confusing powers, and nerfing an underpowered army. They changed it so it's simply not even worth fielding. [[NonFanon Players tend to ignore the codex update altogether]].
** The 2011 Grey Knights codex received an impressively negative reaction for going the other way; the Grey Knights were always liked by fans and considered overpriced before the new codex. The update included some atrocious fluff such as Grey Knights killing Sisters of Battle to use their blood as a holy oil to a chapter master who single-handed managed to [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu bitchslap dozens of Cthulhus]] without trouble. Add in some absolutely appallingly powerful units, some confusing rules interactions, and models many gamers simply disliked (the baby-carrier Dreadknight) and the cries of MartyStu and GameBreaker are far louder than those who approve. The errata did not help; it mostly confirmed that every attempt to abuse the Grey Knights' powers was legal.
** This example could be made for Space Marines, Blood Angels and Necrons. EACH. They are all made by the same author including the two named examples.
** Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar seem to have evaded this in part because the IG were the buttmonkey for the previous 2 decades and their new codex gave them teeth without being overpowered, and the Dark Eldar codex was 14 years out of date and really didn't change anything significant it just made them consistent with 5th edition rules and more playable but still the hardest faction, that is until the Sisters received their infamous update.
** In a typical fashion, GW changed the models of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, who originally were maximum TheEighties to an army of {{Cute Monster Girl}}s. [[MaleGaze Male players approved]]. Then they changed them ''again'' and now they look less Eighties but extremely hideous. Male players were not amused. Almost needless to say, the old models achieve record prices on Website/{{Ebay}}.
**
The third design for the Citadel paint pots had a screw top. The top would either get stuck from dried paint, or they'd fail to close properly due to dried paint. Needless to say, the design was awful and the outcry was enormous. When Games Workshop realized that people were buying paint from third-party sources, the classic flip-lid was re-introduced and remains to this day.



* Among more legitimate complaints, this comes up a lot when ''TabletopGame/{{Dungeons and Dragons}}'' editions are discussed. The base is not so much [[BrokenBase broken]] as it is shattered into a billion tiny splinters. Every single edition changed it and it sucked every single time. Not just Editions. Errata. Adjustments and changes to how powers work can set the forums exploding with "Class X is worthless now!" Complaining about nerfs to characters, in which people might have invested a lot of time is perfectly legitimate. Particularly as, depending on the edition, many/all builds rely on a very limited array of tricks and nerfing even one of them can push a character below the ability that the game assumes to be appropriate for his level. The trend from AD&D through 4E has always been about where to sacrifice verisimilitude to accommodate game-playability. Barring [[GameBreaker poor testing]], the later editions are more mechanically balanced at the cost of things actually making sense from an in-game perspective. The feud is always about how far in either direction is "too far", with most people siding with whichever edition they started with. This trope combined with BrokenBase makes D&D less a game system and more a collection of games with similar concepts but are ultimately separate in reality. The announcement that work is being done on writing future a 5th edition that will have modular rules as its selling point seems to be a case of WizardsOfTheCoast attempting to capitalize on this division. One specific D&D-related example: [[http://www.enworld.org/forum/en-world-official-reviews/312638-review-heroes-neverwinter-facebook-app-atari.html This review]] of the D&D-based Facebook app ''Heroes of Neverwinter''. Many of the comments call the reviewer on it.
* When people on the Privateer Press forums found out that one of the newest units for [[IronKingdoms Warmachine]] was going to be plastic instead of metal, reactions were... mixed. Many people welcomed the change but a particularly vocal minority condemned it for straying from the "Full Metal Fantasy" aesthetic that the company had cultivated up to that point, among other things. It's either something to do with a feel of solidity, or the vocal minority use their Warmachine figures as sling ammunition and don't want to have to correct their aim. For those curious, resin-plastic warjacks ''do'' still feel plenty solid. Probably helps that the torsos are all one giant block of solid resin-plastic rather than being hollow like some of the walkers from [[{{Warhammer40k}} another game.]]

to:

* Among more legitimate complaints, this comes up a lot when ''TabletopGame/{{Dungeons and Dragons}}'' ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' editions are discussed. The base is not so much [[BrokenBase broken]] {{broken|Base}} as it is shattered into a billion tiny splinters. Every single edition changed it and it sucked every single time. Not just Editions. Errata. Adjustments and changes to how powers work can set the forums exploding with "Class X is worthless now!" Complaining about nerfs to characters, in which people might have invested a lot of time is perfectly legitimate. Particularly as, depending on the edition, many/all builds rely on a very limited array of tricks and nerfing even one of them can push a character below the ability that the game assumes to be appropriate for his level. The trend from AD&D through 4E has always been about where to sacrifice verisimilitude to accommodate game-playability. Barring [[GameBreaker poor testing]], the later editions are more mechanically balanced at the cost of things actually making sense from an in-game perspective. The feud is always about how far in either direction is "too far", with most people siding with whichever edition they started with. This trope combined with BrokenBase makes D&D less a game system and more a collection of games with similar concepts but are ultimately separate in reality. The announcement that work is being done on writing future a 5th edition that will have modular rules as its selling point seems to be a case of WizardsOfTheCoast attempting to capitalize on this division. One specific D&D-related example: [[http://www.enworld.org/forum/en-world-official-reviews/312638-review-heroes-neverwinter-facebook-app-atari.html This review]] of the D&D-based Facebook app ''Heroes of Neverwinter''. Many of the comments call the reviewer on it.
* When people on the Privateer Press forums found out that one of the newest units for [[IronKingdoms Warmachine]] was going to be plastic instead of metal, reactions were... mixed. Many people welcomed the change but a particularly vocal minority condemned it for straying from the "Full Metal Fantasy" aesthetic that the company had cultivated up to that point, among other things. It's either something to do with a feel of solidity, or the vocal minority use their Warmachine figures as sling ammunition and don't want to have to correct their aim. For those curious, resin-plastic warjacks ''do'' still feel plenty solid. Probably helps that the torsos are all one giant block of solid resin-plastic rather than being hollow like some of the walkers from [[{{Warhammer40k}} [[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} another game.]]



* An interesting variation occurs with every new edition of a Creator/GamesWorkshop game. Players will claim that the new edition is "dumbed-down" and aimed only at younger players, unlike the previous edition. This exact argument comes up ''every single time'' a new edition is released.
** The 2011 Sisters of Battle codex has received a very negative reception. Most players felt that the already not-very-powerful Sisters went from "mid-low tier" to "absolutely unplayable." Some of the other changes really led to head-scratching, such as the new Faith system which gives an army 1d6 faith per turn - whether that army is a 500 point skirmish force or a 3000 point massive force. Complaints include failing to scale powers, confusing powers, and nerfing an underpowered army. They changed it so it's simply not even worth fielding. [[NonFanon Players tend to ignore the codex update altogether]].
** The 2011 Grey Knights codex received an impressively negative reaction for going the other way; the Grey Knights were always liked by fans and considered overpriced before the new codex. The update included some atrocious fluff such as Grey Knights killing Sisters of Battle to use their blood as a holy oil to a chapter master who single-handed managed to [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu bitchslap dozens of Cthulhus]] without trouble. Add in some absolutely appallingly powerful units, some confusing rules interactions, and models many gamers simply disliked (the baby-carrier Dreadknight) and the cries of MartyStu and GameBreaker are far louder than those who approve. The errata did not help; it mostly confirmed that every attempt to abuse the Grey Knights' powers was legal.
** This example could be made for Space Marines, Blood Angels and Necrons. EACH. They are all made by the same author including the two named examples.
** Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar seem to have evaded this in part because the IG were the buttmonkey for the previous 2 decades and their new codex gave them teeth without being overpowered, and the Dark Eldar codex was 14 years out of date and really didn't change anything significant it just made them consistent with 5th edition rules and more playable but still the hardest faction, that is until the Sisters received their infamous update.
** In a typical fashion, GW changed the models of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, who originally were maximum TheEighties to an army of {{Cute Monster Girl}}s. [[MaleGaze Male players approved]]. Then they changed them ''again'' and now they look less eightees but extremely hideous. Male players were not amused. Almost needless to say, the old models achieve record prices on {{Ebay}}.
26th Oct '14 1:48:59 PM Cartomancer
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* The 2014 ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a substantial retcon.

to:

* The 2014 ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' "End Times" series is beginning to attract a fair bit of this reaction, thanks to the radical changes to the world it is experimenting with (such as razing the entirety of ancient Khemri to the ground, along with the Imperial Capital of Altdorf) and the massive numbers of special character fatalities written into the storyline. Venerable personalities such as Heinrich Kemmler, Volkmar the Grim, Morgiana le Fay and Eltharion - who have been a much-loved part of the game's lore for over twenty years - are being killed off by the dozen and to no appreciable end. Prior to the End Times event such character deaths in the background were almost unheard of, and many players have become very attached to the recent victims. It remains to be seen how long the disquieting new disruptions stick around for until things are restored to normal with a substantial retcon.retcon like they were following the 2005 Storm of Chaos events.
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