History SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism / AnimeAndManga

7th May '17 7:36:15 AM ading
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** Which, of course, could be taken to mean that Cancer Deathmask was right.



* One of the recurring themes in the ''Manga/MahouSenseiNegima'' manga is the contrast between [[WideEyedIdealist Negi's idealism]] and [[CynicalMentor Eva's cynicism]]. They eventually start rubbing off on each other.
** As a whole, ''Negima'' starts out with a very idealistic tone, but becomes more and more cynical as it goes on, mirroring Negi's growing maturity and his realization that the world isn't always a nice place, and that while you can be idealistic, you had better be willing to ''fight'' for it. And with the recently revealed stakes of that fight, boy is it on now!
* The main premise of ''Manga/BlackCat'' involves two scheming organizations, [[BlackAndGreyMorality one evil, one morally grey]], a living weapon resulted from an unspeakably unethical human experiment and a couple of guys who try to do good but is constantly strained by the evils of the world. The morally grey organization has taken over a good portion of the world's governments, sometimes with the use of force, violence and deceit. The evil organization tries to take over the ''whole'' world by killing a lot of people and making its insane leader immortal. The living weapon is a little girl without feelings, [[TykeBomb raised]] by a CorruptCorporateExecutive; her first scene in the manga was her killing a bodyguard. One of the good guys had a shady and troubled past. So you think this series is lodged way into the side of [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism Cynicsm]]? Wrong, actually it's the complete opposite. Many of the morally grey organization's members are actually nice and benevolent characters. Some of the evil organization's members are actually very humanized. The little girl who is a living weapon is one of the cutest and most lovable protagonists in the story. And the good guys are downright goofy. The audiences were made to believe that AnyoneCanDie, it turns out that many of them survive, sometimes making a HeelFaceTurn. [[spoiler:Even the insane BigBad ends up being taken care of by TheDragon in a peaceful rural cottage so he could return to a normal life so he can do good.]] ''Manga/BlackCat'' is kind of a DoubleSubversion of an idealistic fighting {{Shonen}} series, as though the whole premise looks Cynical, it is actually a very Idealistic manga.
* ''Manga/{{Blame}}'' is a difficult series to categorize, as despite its largely bleak and cynical appearance, is actually ''relatively'' idealistic. The protagonist's ultimate goal is to save humanity, even ''if'' he has to be very violent about it. [[spoiler: He succeeds in his mission, [[CrapsackWorld but whether humanity was ultimately "saved" or not is purposely left ambiguous]].]] We could just say that ''Manga/{{Blame}}'' deliberately plays see-saw with the scale, and leave it at that.
* Despite being set in a heavily militarized world full of deception and some of the fandom's wishes to the contrary, ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' is quite clearly on the idealistic side, as emphasized by the "Will of Fire" held by the protagonists and most associated with them. The spirit that is able to turn about any creature in the world from cynical towards idealistic, by just talking to them! Though, of the few who have so far proven to be immune to it, such as Danzo, who believes that people are [[Series/{{Scrubs}} bastard coated bastards with bastard filling]] and that the only way to protect Konoha is to make Konoha stronger. [[spoiler:Problem is, his reasoning is pretty faulty, since a lot of the crap the idealists had to go through were the direct or indirect result of him ''also'' acting like a bastard...]]

to:

* One of the recurring themes in the ''Manga/MahouSenseiNegima'' manga is the contrast between [[WideEyedIdealist Negi's idealism]] and [[CynicalMentor Eva's cynicism]]. They eventually start rubbing off on each other.
**
other. As a whole, ''Negima'' starts out with a very idealistic tone, but becomes more and more cynical as it goes on, mirroring Negi's growing maturity and his realization that the world isn't always a nice place, and that while you can be idealistic, you had better be willing to ''fight'' for it. And with the recently revealed stakes of that fight, boy is it on now!
* The main premise of ''Manga/BlackCat'' involves two scheming organizations, [[BlackAndGreyMorality one evil, one morally grey]], a living weapon resulted from an unspeakably unethical human experiment and a couple of guys who try to do good but is are constantly strained by the evils of the world. The morally grey organization has taken over a good portion of the world's governments, sometimes with the use of force, violence and deceit. The evil organization tries to take over the ''whole'' world by killing a lot of people and making its insane leader immortal. The living weapon is a little girl without feelings, [[TykeBomb raised]] raised as a TykeBomb by a CorruptCorporateExecutive; her first scene in the manga was her killing a bodyguard. One of the good guys had a shady and troubled past. So you think this series is lodged way into the side of [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism Cynicsm]]? Wrong, actually it's the complete opposite. Many of the morally grey organization's members are actually nice and benevolent characters. Some of the evil organization's members are actually very humanized. The little girl who is a living weapon is one of the cutest and most lovable protagonists in the story. And the good guys are downright goofy. The audiences were made to believe that AnyoneCanDie, it turns out that many of them survive, sometimes making a HeelFaceTurn. [[spoiler:Even the insane BigBad ends up being taken care of by TheDragon in a peaceful rural cottage so he could return to a normal life so he can do good.]] ''Manga/BlackCat'' is kind of a DoubleSubversion of an idealistic fighting {{Shonen}} series, as though the whole premise looks Cynical, it is actually a very Idealistic manga.
* ''Manga/{{Blame}}'' is a difficult series to categorize, as despite its largely bleak and cynical appearance, it is actually ''relatively'' idealistic. The protagonist's ultimate goal is to save humanity, even ''if'' he has to be very violent about it. [[spoiler: He succeeds in his mission, [[CrapsackWorld but whether humanity was ultimately "saved" or not is purposely left ambiguous]].]] We could just say that ''Manga/{{Blame}}'' deliberately plays see-saw with the scale, and leave it at that.
* Despite being set in a heavily militarized world full of deception and some of the fandom's wishes to the contrary, ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' is quite clearly on the idealistic side, as emphasized by the "Will of Fire" held by the protagonists and most associated with them. The them, the spirit that is able to turn about any creature in the world from cynical towards idealistic, by just by talking to them! Though, of the few who have so far proven to be immune to it, such as Danzo, who believes that people are [[Series/{{Scrubs}} bastard coated bastards with bastard filling]] and that the only way to protect Konoha is to make Konoha stronger. [[spoiler:Problem is, his reasoning is pretty faulty, since a lot of the crap the idealists had to go through were the direct or indirect result of him ''also'' acting like a bastard...]]
7th May '17 7:32:17 AM ading
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* ''Manga/YokohamaKaidashiKikou'' is firmly idealistic, which is only natural for a manga that takes place ...AfterTheEnd.

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* %%* ''Manga/YokohamaKaidashiKikou'' is firmly idealistic, which is only natural for a manga that takes place ...AfterTheEnd.
7th May '17 7:31:45 AM ading
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* ''Manga/{{ARIA}}'' practically floats by on a massive ocean of idealism.
* ''Anime/{{Texhnolyze}}'', on the other hand, practically sinks to the very bottom of a big ocean of cynicism.

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* %%* ''Manga/{{ARIA}}'' practically floats by on a massive ocean of idealism.
* %%* ''Anime/{{Texhnolyze}}'', on the other hand, practically sinks to the very bottom of a big ocean of cynicism.
3rd Apr '17 11:13:04 AM WiseMan23753
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* ''Anime/CrossAnge'' is excesssively on the cynical side. It berates technology, PowerOfLove and PowerOfFriendship as they make humans are selfishly complacent and arroagant. So much that they must be beaten up or have someone to beat up just to vitalize themselves. Even after the story shifts away from the cynical end with [[spoiler:the Dragons and Norma understanding one another and joining to fight the BigBad]], many of the themes the anime denounces still remain.
20th Mar '17 1:02:22 PM ChaoticNovelist
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* ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'' starts out on the far cynical side of the scale, with the brutal deconstruction of the MagicalGirl genre coupled with a general theme of BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor. It doesn't matter what the {{Magical Girl}}s [[spoiler:who are [[OurLichesAreDifferent liches]] fated to become the same [[EldritchAbomination abominations]] that they have been fighting]] do, they are doomed from the very beginning [[spoiler:especially if they find out that they were deceived into a DealWithTheDevil]]. [[spoiler:It then quickly veers onto the more idealistic side of the scale when Madoka, who could be said to be one of the most idealistic characters shown, performs a HeroicSacrifice and AbstractApotheosis, making sure with her own hands that no magical girl in the past, present, and future ever becomes a witch, up to and including herself. But wraiths have replaced the witches as the bringers of grief, though [[AllThereInTheManual supplemental material]] indicates that their only strength is in numbers, with each individual wraith being weaker than a single witch; {{Magical Girl}}s vanish once their [[SoulJar Soul Gems]] completely darken, though it is implied that Madoka takes them to what may be some sort of afterlife.]]

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* ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'' starts out on the far cynical side of the scale, with the brutal deconstruction of a harsh look at the MagicalGirl genre coupled with a general theme of BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor. It doesn't matter what the {{Magical Girl}}s [[spoiler:who are [[OurLichesAreDifferent liches]] fated to become the same [[EldritchAbomination abominations]] that they have been fighting]] do, they are doomed from the very beginning [[spoiler:especially if they find out that they were deceived into a DealWithTheDevil]]. [[spoiler:It then quickly veers onto the more idealistic side of the scale when Madoka, who could be said to be one of the most idealistic characters shown, performs a HeroicSacrifice and AbstractApotheosis, making sure with her own hands that no magical girl in the past, present, and future ever becomes a witch, up to and including herself. But wraiths have replaced the witches as the bringers of grief, though [[AllThereInTheManual supplemental material]] indicates that their only strength is in numbers, with each individual wraith being weaker than a single witch; {{Magical Girl}}s vanish once their [[SoulJar Soul Gems]] completely darken, though it is implied that Madoka takes them to what may be some sort of afterlife.]]
4th Jan '17 8:23:00 AM AlienPatch
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* ''Anime/{{FLCL}}'', confusing and over-the-top as it is, seems to favor a cynical standpoint. There's really no good or evil in the universe (only chaos?) because both sides are equally corrupt. The only real escape is Naota's childish innocence, the one he tries so desperately to get rid of but basically ends up sticking to through everything.
2nd Jan '17 1:31:02 PM Monolaf317
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* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[Music/TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.

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* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[Music/TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.
24th Dec '16 5:07:40 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* ''Fate/Zero'' is soul-crushingly cynical, seeing the noble chivalric ideals and good intentions of Saber and Lancer, the self-sacrificing efforts of Kariya to save Sakura, the dreams of [[WellIntentionedExtremist Kiritsugu]] to create a world without conflict, and many others broken and stomped on.

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* ''Fate/Zero'' ''LightNovel/FateZero'' is soul-crushingly cynical, seeing the noble chivalric ideals and good intentions of Saber [[KnightInShiningArmor Saber]] and Lancer, [[FailureKnight Lancer]], the self-sacrificing efforts of Kariya to save Sakura, spare Sakura from a horrifying fate in the Matou family, the dreams of [[WellIntentionedExtremist Kiritsugu]] to create a world without conflict, and many others broken and stomped on.
24th Dec '16 4:37:34 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Fate/Zero'' is soul-crushingly cynical, seeing the noble chivalric ideals and good intentions of Saber and Lancer, the self-sacrificing efforts of Kariya to save Sakura, the dreams of [[WellIntentionedExtremist Kiritsugu]] to create a world without conflict, and many others broken and stomped on.
5th Dec '16 7:07:00 PM sgamer82
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* ''Manga/SilverNina'' leans heavily on the idealistic side of the scale, being about a little girl living with her relatives while her mother's working abroad and the positive effects she tends to have on those around her.
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