History SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism / AnimeAndManga

4th Jan '17 8:23:00 AM AlienPatch
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* ''Anime/{{FLCL}}'', confusing and over-the-top as it is, seems to favor a cynical standpoint. There's really no good or evil in the universe (only chaos?) because both sides are equally corrupt. The only real escape is Naota's childish innocence, the one he tries so desperately to get rid of but basically ends up sticking to through everything.
2nd Jan '17 1:31:02 PM Monolaf317
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* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[Music/TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.

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* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[Music/TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.
24th Dec '16 5:07:40 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* ''Fate/Zero'' is soul-crushingly cynical, seeing the noble chivalric ideals and good intentions of Saber and Lancer, the self-sacrificing efforts of Kariya to save Sakura, the dreams of [[WellIntentionedExtremist Kiritsugu]] to create a world without conflict, and many others broken and stomped on.

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* ''Fate/Zero'' ''LightNovel/FateZero'' is soul-crushingly cynical, seeing the noble chivalric ideals and good intentions of Saber [[KnightInShiningArmor Saber]] and Lancer, [[FailureKnight Lancer]], the self-sacrificing efforts of Kariya to save Sakura, spare Sakura from a horrifying fate in the Matou family, the dreams of [[WellIntentionedExtremist Kiritsugu]] to create a world without conflict, and many others broken and stomped on.
24th Dec '16 4:37:34 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* ''Fate/Zero'' is soul-crushingly cynical, seeing the noble chivalric ideals and good intentions of Saber and Lancer, the self-sacrificing efforts of Kariya to save Sakura, the dreams of [[WellIntentionedExtremist Kiritsugu]] to create a world without conflict, and many others broken and stomped on.
5th Dec '16 7:07:00 PM sgamer82
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* ''Manga/SilverNina'' leans heavily on the idealistic side of the scale, being about a little girl living with her relatives while her mother's working abroad and the positive effects she tends to have on those around her.
24th Oct '16 10:21:58 PM Gamermaster
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* The MagicalGirl genre is idealistic. ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', as mentioned under VideoGames, is idealistic. [[MixAndMatch Put them together]] and you get ''Franchise/LyricalNanoha'', where [[AntiVillain villains who can be redeemed]] [[HeelFaceTurn will be redeemed]] [[DefeatMeansFriendship after they get beaten around a bit]], [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman anyone who acts human will be treated as a person]] regardless of how [[CloningBlues they]] [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots were]] [[{{Cyborg}} born]], all [[ParentalAbandonment orphaned]] and {{artificial|Human}} children will eventually find a loving family they can go home to, and all {{Smug Snake}}s will receive a well-deserved (and painful) end.

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* The MagicalGirl genre is idealistic. ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'', as mentioned under VideoGames, is idealistic. [[MixAndMatch Put them together]] and you get ''Franchise/LyricalNanoha'', where [[AntiVillain villains who can be redeemed]] [[HeelFaceTurn will be redeemed]] [[DefeatMeansFriendship after they get beaten around a bit]], [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman anyone who acts human will be treated as a person]] regardless of how [[CloningBlues they]] [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots were]] [[{{Cyborg}} born]], all [[ParentalAbandonment orphaned]] and {{artificial|Human}} children will eventually find [[HappilyAdopted a loving family they can go home to, to]], and all {{Smug Snake}}s will receive a well-deserved (and painful) end.
29th Sep '16 10:06:36 AM Monolaf317
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* Being a {{shonen}}, ''Manga/OsomatsuKun'' fell mostly onto the idealistic side. Its sequel, ''Anime/OsomatsuSan'', one the other hand, falls onto the cynical side. The brothers are now BeadyEyedLoser {{Manchild}} {{NEET}}s [[{{Dismotivation}} that stay that way]] in a ComedicSociopathy-ridden show.
21st Sep '16 5:50:36 AM matteste
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* The works of Koichi Ohata have a few genuinely good examples of anime of being very, very cynical to the point they could be considered nihilistic. ''Genocyber'' and ''Anime/MDGeist'' are both the most notable items.

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* The works of Koichi Ohata have a few genuinely good examples of anime of being very, very cynical to the point they could be considered nihilistic. ''Genocyber'' ''Anime/{{Genocyber}}'' and ''Anime/MDGeist'' are both the most notable items.items. ''Anime/CyberneticsGuardian'' however by contrast ends up much more idealistic than his usual fare.
16th Sep '16 10:26:46 AM FF32
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* Like ''Anime/{{Akira}}'', ''Anime/KotouraSan'' starts out on the incredibly cynical side of the spectrum, but gradually becomes more and more idealistic as the TwelveEpisodeAnime progresses on.

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* Like ''Anime/{{Akira}}'', ''Manga/{{Akira}}'', ''Anime/KotouraSan'' starts out on the incredibly cynical side of the spectrum, but gradually becomes more and more idealistic as the TwelveEpisodeAnime progresses on.
4th Sep '16 5:54:16 PM Knightofbalance
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*** Just as well, ''Gurren Lagann'' has quite a bit more of cynicism than the occasional ShootTheDog moment. While you may have freedom, rampant freedom will lead to destruction [[spoiler: explained in said NiceJobBreakingItHero.]] While you may seem like a hero, it's all subjective and you could just as easily become the villian, shown when it's revealed [[spoiler: the villian's are NotSoDifferent from the humans.]] While the PowerOfFriendship is strong, it can be turned against the heroes, [[spoiler: like from Simon's HeroicBSOD from Kamina's death and his hestiation from fighting due to Nia's capture.]] Although being a {{Determinator}} is great and all but being that stubborn will never lead anywhere good [[spoiler: like in the BadFuture shown in the beginning.]] If ''Evangelion'' broke the scale, ''Gurren Lagann'' [[UpToEleven broke the scale and rebuilt it.]] It's not so much as the ''Anti-Eva'' as it is [[DeconReconSwitch ''Eva'' and ''FLCL's'']] [[SpiritualSuccessor child.]]

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*** Just as well, ''Gurren Lagann'' has quite a bit more of cynicism than the occasional ShootTheDog moment. While you may have freedom, rampant freedom will lead to destruction [[spoiler: explained in said NiceJobBreakingItHero.]] While you may seem like a hero, it's all subjective and you could just as easily become the villian, shown when it's revealed [[spoiler: the villian's are NotSoDifferent from the humans.]] While the PowerOfFriendship is strong, it can be turned against the heroes, [[spoiler: like from Simon's HeroicBSOD from Kamina's death and his hestiation from fighting due to Nia's capture.]] Although being a {{Determinator}} is great and all but being that stubborn will never lead anywhere good [[spoiler: like in the BadFuture shown in the beginning.]] If ''Evangelion'' broke the scale, ''Gurren Lagann'' [[UpToEleven broke the scale again and rebuilt it.]] It's not so much as the ''Anti-Eva'' as it is [[DeconReconSwitch ''Eva'' Eva and ''FLCL's'']] FLCL's]] [[SpiritualSuccessor child.]]
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