History SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism / AnimeAndManga

1st Jul '16 2:32:19 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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* In HumongousMecha series, RealRobot series tend to fall more toward cynical, while SuperRobot series fall more toward idealistic.



* In HumongousMecha series, RealRobot series tend to fall more toward cynical, while SuperRobot series fall more toward idealistic.
* Despite this, ''Anime/{{Macross 7}}'', a Real Robots series, is about as idealistic as it gets. During the first few episodes, the main character looks like a fish-out-of-water ActualPacifist trying to end a space war by SINGING AT PEOPLE while they're killing each other and one side is [[spoiler: eating the other's souls in order to fully awaken {{Eldritch Abomination}}s that will bring about TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt]]. And, at the end, [[HeelFaceTurn it works]] [[RedemptionEarnsLife in the best way possible]].
** The ''Macross'' franchise in general is very much on the idealistic end of the scale with its themes of how understanding, love and music can overcome all odds and convert the most alien of foes into friends.
* Conversely, some of Creator/YoshiyukiTomino's entries into the SuperRobot genre, namely ''Anime/{{Zambot 3}}'' and ''Anime/SpaceRunawayIdeon'' contain elements that subvert the idealism and BlackAndWhiteMorality of other SuperRobot shows [[spoiler:not to mention incorporating KillEmAll endings, as per his nickname]]. For instance, in ''Zambot 3'', the protagonists of the Jin family are not praised for their efforts for the majority of the series, but are instead condemned as the cause of the problem. Somewhat justified, seeing as the populace is rather uninformed, and Zambot 3, like any other HumongousMecha, causes a fair bit of property damage and human casualties in its own right. Most series just choose not to address it. Additionally, it is implied in ''Ideon'' that [[spoiler:the Ide was just using the crew that defends it in an EvilPlan to cause TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt.]] Suffice it to say, while ''Ideon'' is infamously cynical, ''Zambot 3'' could at least be seen as having a BittersweetEnding depending on how one interprets [[spoiler:the Gaizok being defeated at the cost of the lives of all but one protagonist, along with the populace coming around to recognize the Zambot pilots as heroes.]]

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* In HumongousMecha series, RealRobot series tend to fall more toward cynical, while SuperRobot series fall more toward idealistic.
* Despite this,
''Anime/{{Macross 7}}'', a Real Robots series, which straddles the line between RealRobot and SuperRobot, is about as idealistic as it gets. During the first few episodes, the main character looks like a fish-out-of-water ActualPacifist trying to end a space war by SINGING AT PEOPLE while they're killing each other and one side is [[spoiler: eating the other's souls in order to fully awaken {{Eldritch Abomination}}s that will bring about TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt]]. And, at the end, [[HeelFaceTurn it works]] [[RedemptionEarnsLife in the best way possible]].
** The ''Macross'' ''Anime/{{Macross}}'' franchise in general is very much on the idealistic end of the scale with its themes of how understanding, love and music can overcome all odds and convert the most alien of foes into friends.
* Conversely, some Some of Creator/YoshiyukiTomino's entries into the SuperRobot genre, namely ''Anime/{{Zambot 3}}'' and ''Anime/SpaceRunawayIdeon'' contain elements that subvert the idealism and BlackAndWhiteMorality of other SuperRobot shows [[spoiler:not to mention incorporating KillEmAll endings, as per his nickname]]. For instance, in ''Zambot 3'', the protagonists of the Jin family are not praised for their efforts for the majority of the series, but are instead condemned as the cause of the problem. Somewhat justified, seeing as the populace is rather uninformed, and Zambot 3, like any other HumongousMecha, causes a fair bit of property damage and human casualties in its own right. Most series just choose not to address it. Additionally, it is implied in ''Ideon'' that [[spoiler:the Ide was just using the crew that defends it in an EvilPlan to cause TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt.]] Suffice it to say, while ''Ideon'' is infamously cynical, ''Zambot 3'' could at least be seen as having a BittersweetEnding depending on how one interprets [[spoiler:the Gaizok being defeated at the cost of the lives of all but one protagonist, along with the populace coming around to recognize the Zambot pilots as heroes.]]
28th Jun '16 3:03:21 PM Monolaf317
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* AxisPowersHetalia, where the characters are countries, ist most of the time idealistic, with none of the characters being really evil and [[TheDitz Italy]] never really getting into serious trouble. The anime has his cynical moments, for example, when the Baltic states have to live under Russias rule, but there are a lot of scenes that are pretty heartwarming such as Poland saying he'll try to be less selfish in the future, or [[JerkassWithAHeartofGold South Italy]] thanking Spain after Spain fought Turkey for him. It should also be noted that while some countries sometimes behave nasty and violent, it usually doesn't end well for them. Prussia, who laughs about Austria after he defeated him in the Seven Years' War, gets beaten up by Hungary [[note]] In RealLife, Prussia got dissolved after UsefulNotes/WorldWarII because the Allies saw the country as too militaristic. Can be seen as example for violence being no solution. [[/note]], and Russia, who wants to get friends, has the problem that everyone is scared about him.

to:

* AxisPowersHetalia, ''Anime/AxisPowersHetalia'', where the characters are countries, ist is most of the time idealistic, with none of the characters being really evil and [[TheDitz Italy]] never really getting into serious trouble. The anime has his cynical moments, for example, when the Baltic states have to live under Russias rule, but there are a lot of scenes that are pretty heartwarming such as Poland saying he'll try to be less selfish in the future, or [[JerkassWithAHeartofGold South Italy]] thanking Spain after Spain fought Turkey for him. It should also be noted that while some countries sometimes behave nasty and violent, it usually doesn't end well for them. Prussia, who laughs about Austria after he defeated him in the Seven Years' War, gets beaten up by Hungary [[note]] In RealLife, Prussia got dissolved after UsefulNotes/WorldWarII because the Allies saw the country as too militaristic. Can be seen as example for violence being no solution. [[/note]], and Russia, who wants to get friends, has the problem that everyone is scared about him.


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* Like ''Anime/{{Akira}}'', ''Anime/KotouraSan'' starts out on the incredibly cynical side of the spectrum, but gradually becomes more and more idealistic as the TwelveEpisodeAnime progresses on.
26th Jun '16 7:29:37 AM catmuto
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* ''Manga/LoveSoLife'' is so far on the idealistic side of things, it's basically hovering in its own bubble [[TastesLikeDiabete filled with puppies and rainbows]]. And this is despite the series being filled with ParentalAbandonment - the main twins' father ran away and left them in his brother's care after his wife died; Shiharu lost her parents while very young; Matsunaga's mother was not all that present in her sons' lives - and the difficulties that raising children can bring, especially if one is not entirely prepared for it.

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* ''Manga/LoveSoLife'' is so far on the idealistic side of things, it's basically hovering in its own bubble [[TastesLikeDiabete [[TastesLikeDiabetes filled with puppies and rainbows]]. And this is despite the series being filled with ParentalAbandonment - the main twins' father ran away and left them in his brother's care after his wife died; Shiharu lost her parents while very young; Matsunaga's mother was not all that present in her sons' lives - and the difficulties that raising children can bring, especially if one is not entirely prepared for it.
26th Jun '16 7:27:49 AM catmuto
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Manga/LoveSoLife'' is so far on the idealistic side of things, it's basically hovering in its own bubble [[TastesLikeDiabete filled with puppies and rainbows]]. And this is despite the series being filled with ParentalAbandonment - the main twins' father ran away and left them in his brother's care after his wife died; Shiharu lost her parents while very young; Matsunaga's mother was not all that present in her sons' lives - and the difficulties that raising children can bring, especially if one is not entirely prepared for it.
22nd Jun '16 5:10:03 AM gewunomox
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* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.

to:

* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[TheRollingStones [[Music/TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.
5th Jun '16 11:58:13 PM XUserBolt2345
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* The ''Franchise/PrettyCure'' series is easily an idealistic series, though its more DarkerAndEdgier (for its kind) installments, ''Anime/FutariWaPrettyCureSplashStar, Anime/HeartcatchPrettyCure'', and ''Anime/HappinessChargePrettyCure'' tend to challenge it, especially if there's a purple-themed heroine who tends to be a JerkAss.

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* The ''Franchise/PrettyCure'' series is easily an idealistic series, though its more DarkerAndEdgier (for its kind) installments, ''Anime/DokiDokiPrettyCure'', ''Anime/FutariWaPrettyCureSplashStar, Anime/HeartcatchPrettyCure'', and ''Anime/HappinessChargePrettyCure'' tend to challenge it, especially if there's a purple-themed heroine who tends to be a JerkAss.



* ''LightNovel/MyTeenRomanticComedySNAFU'' is pretty cynical for a romantic comedy series. Pretty much emphasized with its protagonist Hikigaya being a cynic with an... Unique view on the world himself. Also, the characters also use TheReasonYouSuckSpeech pretty often to solve problems.
* Manga/{{Parasyte}} uses this trope as the driving motivation of its duo protagonist Shinichi and Migi. At the start of the series, Shinichi is the idealistic one, believing that he would never kill people while Migi has no qualms about killing his own kind. As the series progresses however, Shinichi becomes more cynical while Migi grows to be more idealistic.

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* ''LightNovel/MyTeenRomanticComedySNAFU'' is pretty cynical for a romantic comedy series. Pretty much emphasized with its protagonist Hikigaya being a cynic with an... Unique view on the world himself. Also, the characters also use TheReasonYouSuckSpeech pretty often to solve problems.
problems that are handed to them.
* Manga/{{Parasyte}} ''Manga/{{Parasyte}}'' uses this trope as the driving motivation of its duo protagonist Shinichi and Migi. At the start of the series, Shinichi is the idealistic one, believing that he would never kill people while Migi has no qualms about killing his own kind. As the series progresses however, Shinichi becomes more cynical while Migi grows to be more idealistic.
5th Jun '16 11:51:40 PM XUserBolt2345
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* ''Manga/TokyoGhoul'' is easily a cynical series, although at the beginning it ''does'' have its idealistic moments where the protagonist Kaneki tries to connect the human and the ghoul side, and refuses to eat humans at all costs. However, the series went ''far'' through the downward spiral of cynicism as Kaneki himself becoming more pragmatic and cynical due to the horrible things that happened to him, [[spoiler: which was peaked after his torture in Yamori's hands]] he has no qualms about using cruel methods to get stronger, such as [[spoiler: cannibalizing other ghouls to get stronger]]. Adding to that, the series seem to criticize the idea of being selfless, as explained with [[spoiler: Kaneki's backstory]]. And let's not get started on that ending, when [[spoiler: both sides suffer horrible amount of loss against each other, with Kaneki seemingly dying from his fight with Arima.]]

to:

* ''Manga/TokyoGhoul'' is easily a cynical series, although at the beginning it ''does'' have its idealistic moments where the protagonist Kaneki tries to connect the human and the ghoul side, and refuses to eat humans at all costs. However, the series went ''far'' through the downward spiral of cynicism as Kaneki himself becoming more pragmatic and cynical due to the horrible things that happened to him, [[spoiler: which was peaked after his torture in Yamori's hands]] hands]]. On the latter half of the series he has no qualms about using cruel methods to get stronger, such as [[spoiler: cannibalizing other ghouls to get stronger]]. Adding to that, the series seem to criticize the idea of being selfless, as explained with [[spoiler: Kaneki's backstory]]. And let's not get started on that ending, when [[spoiler: both sides suffer horrible amount of loss against each other, with Kaneki seemingly dying from his fight with Arima.]]



* ''Manga/OyasumiPunpun'' definitely falls far into the cynical side, with its characters depicted having issues (even the kindest ones). Added further by the protagonist Punpun becoming an abusive, cynical jerkass due to the abuse and neglect that happened to him in his life. And then the manga ends with [[spoiler: him not getting his love and said girl commiting suicide.]]

to:

* ''Manga/OyasumiPunpun'' definitely falls far ''far'' into the cynical side, with its characters depicted having issues (even the kindest ones). Added further by the protagonist Punpun becoming an abusive, cynical jerkass due to the abuse and neglect that happened to him in his life. And then the manga ends with [[spoiler: him not getting his love and said girl commiting suicide.]]]]
* ''LightNovel/MyTeenRomanticComedySNAFU'' is pretty cynical for a romantic comedy series. Pretty much emphasized with its protagonist Hikigaya being a cynic with an... Unique view on the world himself. Also, the characters also use TheReasonYouSuckSpeech pretty often to solve problems.
* Manga/{{Parasyte}} uses this trope as the driving motivation of its duo protagonist Shinichi and Migi. At the start of the series, Shinichi is the idealistic one, believing that he would never kill people while Migi has no qualms about killing his own kind. As the series progresses however, Shinichi becomes more cynical while Migi grows to be more idealistic.
** By the end of the series however it seems to fall to the idealistic side as humans and parasytes were able to settle their disputes and coexist together.
5th Jun '16 11:34:04 PM XUserBolt2345
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Manga/TokyoGhoul'' is easily a cynical series, although at the beginning it ''does'' have its idealistic moments where the protagonist Kaneki tries to connect the human and the ghoul side, and refuses to eat humans at all costs. However, the series went ''far'' through the downward spiral of cynicism as Kaneki himself becoming more pragmatic and cynical due to the horrible things that happened to him, [[spoiler: which was peaked after his torture in Yamori's hands]] he has no qualms about using cruel methods to get stronger, such as [[spoiler: cannibalizing other ghouls to get stronger]]. Adding to that, the series seem to criticize the idea of being selfless, as explained with [[spoiler: Kaneki's backstory]]. And let's not get started on that ending, when [[spoiler: both sides suffer horrible amount of loss against each other, with Kaneki seemingly dying from his fight with Arima.]]
** The sequel :re seems to flip-flop between the idealistic and cynical side. It starts off idealistic with its protagonist Haise Sasaki refusing to hurt ghouls more than they deserve, but it dives into ''straight'' cynicism when [[spoiler:Kaneki's memory returns and he expresses his desire to die]] although it does not lose its idealistic moments.
* ''Manga/OyasumiPunpun'' definitely falls far into the cynical side, with its characters depicted having issues (even the kindest ones). Added further by the protagonist Punpun becoming an abusive, cynical jerkass due to the abuse and neglect that happened to him in his life. And then the manga ends with [[spoiler: him not getting his love and said girl commiting suicide.]]
3rd Jun '16 10:39:20 AM Doug86
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* AxisPowersHetalia, where the characters are countries, ist most of the time idealistic, with none of the characters being really evil and [[TheDitz Italy]] never really getting into serious trouble. The anime has his cynical moments, for example, when the Baltic states have to live under Russias rule, but there are a lot of scenes that are pretty heartwarming such as Poland saying he'll try to be less selfish in the future, or [[JerkassWithAHeartofGold South Italy]] thanking Spain after Spain fought Turkey for him. It should also be noted that while some countries sometimes behave nasty and violent, it usually doesn't end well for them. Prussia, who laughs about Austria after he defeated him in the Seven Years' War, gets beaten up by Hungary [[note]] In RealLife, Prussia got dissolved after WorldWarII because the Allies saw the country as too militaristic. Can be seen as example for violence being no solution. [[/note]], and Russia, who wants to get friends, has the problem that everyone is scared about him.

to:

* AxisPowersHetalia, where the characters are countries, ist most of the time idealistic, with none of the characters being really evil and [[TheDitz Italy]] never really getting into serious trouble. The anime has his cynical moments, for example, when the Baltic states have to live under Russias rule, but there are a lot of scenes that are pretty heartwarming such as Poland saying he'll try to be less selfish in the future, or [[JerkassWithAHeartofGold South Italy]] thanking Spain after Spain fought Turkey for him. It should also be noted that while some countries sometimes behave nasty and violent, it usually doesn't end well for them. Prussia, who laughs about Austria after he defeated him in the Seven Years' War, gets beaten up by Hungary [[note]] In RealLife, Prussia got dissolved after WorldWarII UsefulNotes/WorldWarII because the Allies saw the country as too militaristic. Can be seen as example for violence being no solution. [[/note]], and Russia, who wants to get friends, has the problem that everyone is scared about him.
28th May '16 2:26:06 AM AnneOfCleves
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* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more, (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and the struggle is what makes life worth living. How you feel about each of these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.

to:

* ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' is an interesting example as [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist the first anime]] and [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist the manga/second anime]] end on different parts of the scale. The manga and second anime are very idealistic, with the message that if you work hard enough and overcome your pain, you can make anything possible [[spoiler: except for bringing back the dead]]. The first anime is more, more (but not entirely) cynical, saying you ''don't'' always achieve what you want, [[TheRollingStones but if you try you just might get what you need]], and the struggle that ''struggle'' is what makes life worth living. How you feel about each of these messages, and your overall place on the sliding scale, is a major clue to which side of the [[BrokenBase endless fandom war]] you'll likely take.
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