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* ''Series/ParksAndRec'': Similar to Daria Morgendoeffer, April Ludgate has a lot of fans due to her deadpan nature, snark tendencies, and sarcastic attitude, with a lot of fans saying "I'm just like April." Or "I'd be friends with April." These "fans" completely miss the point of the character. Ron Swanson put it best: "You know who April hates? People!" Also, for all her "coolness", April is essentially a child in therms of maturity. She nearly ruined a relationship with the love of her life just because another woman kissed him. Again, to be clear, Andy did not initiate the kiss, he did nothing to encourage it, was not pursuing Ann at that point, and had made it clear he had feelings for April, yet she blames him. It took a serious lecture from Ron Swanson to make April see the error of her ways.

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* ''Series/TheBigBangTheory''
** Sheldon is regarded by some as the good guy, while Leonard is the {{Jerkass}} who makes fun of his mental problems. They ignore the fact that Sheldon is, by any objective standard, a massive tool who treats everyone around him like shit. It's not that Sheldon doesn't understand other people's feelings, it's that he doesn't ''care''. This was demonstrated by Sheldon blithely spoiling the ending of a book for Leonard and not seeing that he did anything wrong, despite the fact that Sheldon would have thrown a fit if anyone had done the same to him. In real life, nobody would give anyone with any developmental disorder carte blanche to behave the way Sheldon does. These fans also ignore that everyone is ''very'' accommodating to Sheldon, usually giving him what he wants rather than calling him out. Sheldon is a JerkWithAHeartOfGold, but the "jerk" part is absolutely a part of his character, and the moments where he learns to genuinely appreciate people are part of his development; he's not some unambiguous AntiHero on whom the universe is conspiring.
** In a similar vein, the Sheldon/Penny or "Shenny" shippers. Penny is very patronizing to Sheldon and treats him like a little brother or child, which is supposed to highlight Sheldon's ManChild tendencies. Fans see two people with a close friendship and assume romance. They also seem to think that Sheldon needs to get the girl because he's the underdog geek that should prevail...except they've already done this arc with Leonard...Penny's actual boyfriend...and Sheldon's best friend...Throw in the fact that Sheldon doesn't do traditional romance and already has a (kinda sort of but with no hugging or kissing) girlfriend who is Penny's best friend and you've basically got a lot of people blindly missing the point in favor of rose-tinted ShippingGoggles.
*** The biggest problem with this is that the writers in later seasons took to making them borderline enemies with each other to dissuade the "ship" (which ''still'' didn't work), at the cost of the friendship and character development they once had. And Amy was introduced at approximately the same time they both TookALevelInJerkass with each other, to [[ShipSinking hammer the nails in the Sheldon/Penny coffin further]]. Over time, both Sheldon and Penny get some much-needed CharacterDevelopment, but it should be noted that neither of them ever display ''any'' romantic interest in each other, with them coming to genuinely feel LikeBrotherAndSister (Penny even says as much in the last season).
** InUniverse, Sheldon calls ''Film/ABeautifulMind'' a "feel-good romp". The story is about John Nash and his struggles with his mental health, including a disorder that causes him to see patterns where there are none, and how it almost ruins his life. Sheldon, however, only sees a brilliant mind being held down by everyone else.

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* ''Series/TheBigBangTheory''
** Sheldon is regarded by some as the good guy, while Leonard is the {{Jerkass}} who makes fun of his mental problems. They ignore the fact that Sheldon is, by any objective standard, a massive tool who treats everyone around him like shit. It's not that Sheldon doesn't understand other people's feelings, it's that he doesn't ''care''. This was demonstrated by Sheldon blithely spoiling the ending of a book for Leonard and not seeing that he did anything wrong, despite the fact that Sheldon would have thrown a fit if anyone had done the same to him. In real life, nobody would give anyone with any developmental disorder carte blanche to behave the way Sheldon does. These fans also ignore that everyone is ''very'' accommodating to Sheldon, usually giving him what he wants rather than calling him out. Sheldon is a JerkWithAHeartOfGold, but the "jerk" part is absolutely a part of his character, and the moments where he learns to genuinely appreciate people are part of his development; he's not some unambiguous AntiHero on whom the universe is conspiring.
** In a similar vein, the Sheldon/Penny or "Shenny" shippers. Penny is very patronizing to Sheldon and treats him like a little brother or child, which is supposed to highlight Sheldon's ManChild tendencies. Fans see two people with a close friendship and assume romance. They also seem to think that Sheldon needs to get the girl because he's the underdog geek that should prevail...except they've already done this arc with Leonard...Penny's actual boyfriend...and Sheldon's best friend...Throw in the fact that Sheldon doesn't do traditional romance and already has a (kinda sort of but with no hugging or kissing) girlfriend who is Penny's best friend and you've basically got a lot of people blindly missing the point in favor of rose-tinted ShippingGoggles.
*** The biggest problem with this is that the writers in later seasons took to making them borderline enemies with each other to dissuade the "ship" (which ''still'' didn't work), at the cost of the friendship and character development they once had. And Amy was introduced at approximately the same time they both TookALevelInJerkass with each other, to [[ShipSinking hammer the nails in the Sheldon/Penny coffin further]]. Over time, both Sheldon and Penny get some much-needed CharacterDevelopment, but it should be noted that neither of them ever display ''any'' romantic interest in each other, with them coming to genuinely feel LikeBrotherAndSister (Penny even says as much in the last season).
**
''Series/TheBigBangTheory'': InUniverse, Sheldon calls ''Film/ABeautifulMind'' a "feel-good romp". The story is about John Nash and his struggles with his mental health, including a disorder that causes him to see patterns where there are none, and how it almost ruins his life. Sheldon, however, only sees a brilliant mind being held down by everyone else.
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** With regards to ''Series/TheThickOfIt'' and certainly ''Series/YesMinister'', it's questionable how much the appreciation on the part of the people the shows were mocking was simply them not getting that they were the butt of the joke versus them very much realizing that they ''were'' but finding the joke so well done and close to their actual experiences that they appreciated it nonetheless. Certainly, one of the frequent praises that ''Yes Minister'' received from fans within the British political sphere was that the show's depictions were almost entirely spot-on, and the British in general are largely a people with a healthy appreciation for good SelfDeprecatingHumor.

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** With regards to ''Series/TheThickOfIt'' and certainly ''Series/YesMinister'', it's questionable how much the appreciation on the part of the people the shows were mocking was simply them not getting that they were the butt of the joke versus them very much realizing that they ''were'' but finding the joke so well done and close to their actual experiences that they appreciated it nonetheless.nonetheless (William Hague once said that the show was spot on when asked). Certainly, one of the frequent praises that ''Yes Minister'' received from fans within the British political sphere was that the show's depictions were almost entirely spot-on, and the British in general are largely a people with a healthy appreciation for good SelfDeprecatingHumor.
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* Alex P. Keaton from ''Series/FamilyTies'' was written by liberal writers and was intended to be a conservative [[StrawCharacter Strawman Political]] to his more sensible (from their perspective) former hippie parents. Due to great acting by Creator/MichaelJFox, Alex became a BreakoutCharacter, that many people (especially the conservatives the writers were attempting to mock) found to be the most sympathetic on the show.
** The fact that UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan himself referred to ''Series/FamilyTies'' as his favorite show didn't help matters, either.

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* ''Series/{{Euphoria}}'': The scene where Rue describes Nate Jacobs' [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hXa4eub8KI growing obsession]] with fitness and athletic achievement in adolescence, much of it [[SportsDad pushed by his father]], is meant to show how he became the monstrous JerkJock he is in high school. This hasn't stopped that scene from being presented as motivational for teenage boys and young men getting into fitness.
* Alex P. Keaton from ''Series/FamilyTies'' was written by liberal writers and was intended to be a conservative [[StrawCharacter Strawman Political]] conservative strawman]] to his more sensible (from their perspective) liberal former hippie parents. Due to great acting by Creator/MichaelJFox, Alex became a BreakoutCharacter, that BreakoutCharacter who many people (especially the conservatives the writers were attempting to mock) found to be the most sympathetic on the show.
** The fact that
show. UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan himself referred to ''Series/FamilyTies'' as his favorite show didn't help matters, either.show.
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* ''Series/TheTwilightZone1959'': The episode "[[Recap/TheTwilightZoneS1E28ANicePlaceToVisit A Nice Place to Visit]]" is a cautionary tale about an angry, endlessly covetous thief ending up in an IronicHell where all his material desires are fulfilled and no challenges remain, driving him mad with boredom. Donald Trump has [[http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/watch-donald-trumps-philosophy-success-was-inspired-twilight-zone-episode cited the protagonist of this episode]] as a major inspiration for his "philosophy of success", emulating the man's desire to always win and to have everything until it becomes boring, while seemingly ignoring the story's [[{{Anvilicious}} unambiguous moral]] warning ''against'' such covetousness.

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* ''Series/TheTwilightZone1959'': The episode "[[Recap/TheTwilightZoneS1E28ANicePlaceToVisit "[[Recap/TheTwilightZone1959S1E28ANicePlaceToVisit A Nice Place to Visit]]" is a cautionary tale about an angry, endlessly covetous thief ending up in an IronicHell where all his material desires are fulfilled and no challenges remain, driving him mad with boredom. Donald Trump has [[http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/watch-donald-trumps-philosophy-success-was-inspired-twilight-zone-episode cited the protagonist of this episode]] as a major inspiration for his "philosophy of success", emulating the man's desire to always win and to have everything until it becomes boring, while seemingly ignoring the story's [[{{Anvilicious}} unambiguous moral]] warning ''against'' such covetousness.
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** There's quite a few fans who believe that Saul Goodman, Walter's sleazy AmoralAttorney who has connections to the criminal underground, is a legitimately great defense lawyer whose skill at handling the law and PluckyComicRelief antics would make him the ideal legal guy for a client to hire. This is ignoring that Saul's primary clientele are repeat criminals and drug addicts that are ''intentionally'' breaking the law, and are hoping to get bailed out so they can continue with their illicit activities. Not only that, but Saul himself, while loyal to an extent, is focused more on getting himself handsomely paid for his shady legal work than he is providing meaningful consul to his clients. ''Series/BetterCallSaul'' further demonstrates that beneath Saul's bluster, AwesomeEgo and witty sense of humor is the broken shell of Jimmy [=McGill=], a man so traumatized by all the loss in his life that he intentionally became a self-serving {{Slimeball}} to shove down the grief and pain he still carries.
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** And, of course, standard viewers are split between those who want to see Tucker twist in the wind and those who cheer him on. He has [[EvilIsSexy strange powers]].

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** And, of course, standard viewers are split between those who want to see Tucker twist in the wind and those who cheer him on. He has [[EvilIsSexy strange powers]].powers.
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** Creator David Chase has spoken out against the many viewers who would cheer Tony on, stating that he was written to be an unlikable, hypocritical character. And, you know, a murderous gangster. And then, when those same viewers began calling for Tony's death during the show's final season, he got ''really'' frustrated, giving an absolutely scathing statement that basically said that rooting for a despicable criminal for six years and then arbitrarily deciding that it's now time for "justice" is completely absurd. Naturally, this did not endear him with the show's fans, who pointed out how equally absurd it was for a showrunner to [[DearNegativeReader lecture his audience]] about supporting a ''fictional'' criminal while personally ''profiting'' off of Tony's "crimes".

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** Creator David Chase has spoken out against the many viewers who would cheer Tony on, stating that he was written to be an unlikable, hypocritical character. And, you know, a murderous gangster. And then, when those same viewers began calling for Tony's death during the show's final season, he got ''really'' frustrated, giving an absolutely scathing statement that basically said that rooting for a despicable criminal for six years and then arbitrarily deciding that it's now time for "justice" is completely absurd. Naturally, this did not endear him with the show's fans, who pointed out how equally absurd (and pretentious) it was for a showrunner to [[DearNegativeReader lecture his audience]] about supporting a ''fictional'' criminal while personally ''profiting'' off of Tony's "crimes".

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* ''Series/TheBigBangTheory'''s Sheldon is regarded by some as the good guy, while Leonard is the {{Jerkass}} who makes fun of his mental problems. They ignore the fact that Sheldon is, by any objective standard, a massive tool who treats everyone around him like shit. It's not that he doesn't understand, it's that he doesn't ''care'', as demonstrated by him blithely spoiling the ending of a book for Leonard and not seeing that he did anything wrong despite the fact that he would have thrown a huge bitch fit if anyone had done the same to him. In real life, nobody would give anyone with any developmental disorder carte blanche to behave the way Sheldon does. These fans also ignore that Leonard and everyone else is ''very'' accommodating to Sheldon, usually giving him what he wants rather than calling him out.

to:

* ''Series/TheBigBangTheory'''s ''Series/TheBigBangTheory''
**
Sheldon is regarded by some as the good guy, while Leonard is the {{Jerkass}} who makes fun of his mental problems. They ignore the fact that Sheldon is, by any objective standard, a massive tool who treats everyone around him like shit. It's not that he Sheldon doesn't understand, understand other people's feelings, it's that he doesn't ''care'', as ''care''. This was demonstrated by him Sheldon blithely spoiling the ending of a book for Leonard and not seeing that he did anything wrong wrong, despite the fact that he Sheldon would have thrown a huge bitch fit if anyone had done the same to him. In real life, nobody would give anyone with any developmental disorder carte blanche to behave the way Sheldon does. These fans also ignore that Leonard and everyone else is ''very'' accommodating to Sheldon, usually giving him what he wants rather than calling him out.out. Sheldon is a JerkWithAHeartOfGold, but the "jerk" part is absolutely a part of his character, and the moments where he learns to genuinely appreciate people are part of his development; he's not some unambiguous AntiHero on whom the universe is conspiring.



*** The biggest problem with this is that the writers in later seasons took to making them borderline enemies with each other to dissuade the "ship" (which ''still'' didn't work), at the cost of the friendship and character development they once had. And Amy was introduced at approximately the same time they both TookALevelInJerkass with each other, to [[ShipSinking hammer the nails in the Sheldon/Penny coffin further]].
** Over time, both Sheldon and Penny get some much-needed CharacterDevelopment, but it should be noted that neither of them ever display ''any'' romantic interest in each other, with them coming to genuinely feel LikeBrotherAndSister (Penny even says as much in the last season).
** InUniverse, Sheldon calls ''Film/ABeautifulMind'' a "feel-good romp".

to:

*** The biggest problem with this is that the writers in later seasons took to making them borderline enemies with each other to dissuade the "ship" (which ''still'' didn't work), at the cost of the friendship and character development they once had. And Amy was introduced at approximately the same time they both TookALevelInJerkass with each other, to [[ShipSinking hammer the nails in the Sheldon/Penny coffin further]].
**
further]]. Over time, both Sheldon and Penny get some much-needed CharacterDevelopment, but it should be noted that neither of them ever display ''any'' romantic interest in each other, with them coming to genuinely feel LikeBrotherAndSister (Penny even says as much in the last season).
** InUniverse, Sheldon calls ''Film/ABeautifulMind'' a "feel-good romp". The story is about John Nash and his struggles with his mental health, including a disorder that causes him to see patterns where there are none, and how it almost ruins his life. Sheldon, however, only sees a brilliant mind being held down by everyone else.
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None


** Creator David Chase has spoken out against the many viewers who would cheer Tony on, stating that he was written to be an unlikable, hypocritical character. And, you know, a murderous gangster. And then, when those same viewers began calling for Tony's death during the show's final season, he got ''really'' frustrated, giving an absolutely scathing statement that basically said that rooting for a despicable criminal for six years and then arbitrarily deciding that it's now time for "justice" is completely absurd. Naturally, this did not endear him with the show's fans, who pointed out how equally absurd it was for a showrunner to [[DearNegativeReader lecture his audience]] about supporting a ''fictional'' criminal while personally "profiting" off of Tony's "crimes".

to:

** Creator David Chase has spoken out against the many viewers who would cheer Tony on, stating that he was written to be an unlikable, hypocritical character. And, you know, a murderous gangster. And then, when those same viewers began calling for Tony's death during the show's final season, he got ''really'' frustrated, giving an absolutely scathing statement that basically said that rooting for a despicable criminal for six years and then arbitrarily deciding that it's now time for "justice" is completely absurd. Naturally, this did not endear him with the show's fans, who pointed out how equally absurd it was for a showrunner to [[DearNegativeReader lecture his audience]] about supporting a ''fictional'' criminal while personally "profiting" ''profiting'' off of Tony's "crimes".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* David Chase, creator of ''Series/TheSopranos'' has spoken out against the many viewers who would cheer Tony on, stating that he was written to be an unlikable, hypocritical character. And, you know, a murderous gangster.
** And then, when those same viewers began calling for Tony's death during the show's final season, he got ''really'' frustrated, giving an absolutely scathing statement that basically said that rooting for a despicable criminal for six years and then arbitrarily deciding that it's now time for "justice" is completely absurd.

to:

* ''Series/TheSopranos'':
** Creator
David Chase, creator of ''Series/TheSopranos'' Chase has spoken out against the many viewers who would cheer Tony on, stating that he was written to be an unlikable, hypocritical character. And, you know, a murderous gangster.
**
gangster. And then, when those same viewers began calling for Tony's death during the show's final season, he got ''really'' frustrated, giving an absolutely scathing statement that basically said that rooting for a despicable criminal for six years and then arbitrarily deciding that it's now time for "justice" is completely absurd. Naturally, this did not endear him with the show's fans, who pointed out how equally absurd it was for a showrunner to [[DearNegativeReader lecture his audience]] about supporting a ''fictional'' criminal while personally "profiting" off of Tony's "crimes".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Sue is Flame Bait.


** The first is the writers' own damn fault. They put Puck and Rachel together for one episode with nothing attracting them to each other besides being Jewish simply to poke fun at and deconstruct the TokenMinorityCouple. However Puck is a DracoInLeatherPants MrFanservice while Rachel is a PossessionSue so people latched onto them with great fervor. It didn't help that they played a TokenMinorityCouple completely straight (thought they did deconstruct the trope later on) with Tina and Mike the next season.

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** The first is the writers' own damn fault. They put Puck and Rachel together for one episode with nothing attracting them to each other besides being Jewish simply to poke fun at and deconstruct the TokenMinorityCouple. However Puck is a DracoInLeatherPants MrFanservice while Rachel is a PossessionSue so people latched onto them with great fervor. It didn't help that they played a TokenMinorityCouple completely straight (thought they did deconstruct the trope later on) with Tina and Mike the next season.
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** Meanwhile, Archie's TransAtlanticEquivalent, Alf Garnett of ''Till Death Us Do Part'', was absolutely, hatefully and unapologetically bigoted, unfortunately in a way which made bigotry funny.
*** Misaimed Fandom for Alf Garnett led to a real life SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome. Warren Mitchell, who played the character and was Jewish himself, was once greeted on the street by a fan who applauded Garnett's opinions. Mitchell got in the man's face and told him the character was designed to make fun of idiots like him.
*** Jonny Speight eventually gave up writing the character because people thought Garnett was a hero. It takes quite a lot of self control when you are sitting with your in-laws who are stating Garnett was taken off TV 'because he was right'.

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** Meanwhile, Archie's TransAtlanticEquivalent, Alf Garnett of ''Till Death Us Do Part'', ''Series/TillDeathUsDoPart'', was absolutely, hatefully and unapologetically bigoted, unfortunately in a way which made bigotry funny.
*** Misaimed Fandom for Alf Garnett led to a real life SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome. Warren Mitchell, Creator/WarrenMitchell, who played the character and was Jewish himself, was once greeted on the street by a fan who applauded Garnett's opinions. Mitchell got in the man's face and told him the character was designed to make fun of idiots like him.
*** Jonny Johnny Speight eventually gave up writing the character because people thought Garnett was a hero. It takes quite a lot of self control self-control when you are sitting with your in-laws who are stating Garnett was taken off TV 'because he was right'.

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** Speaking of the Master, Missy is definitely this, even to her haters. Missy turned all of humanity's dead into Cybermen, and coldbloodedly murdered fan favourite Osgood. She was undeniably an evil monster in her first season. But the small vocal minority of fans who hate Missy hate her NOT because of her evil actions, but because she's a she and they're vehemently opposed to the concept of Time Lords genderswapping during regeneration (the same reason that vocal minority attacks Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor). Conversely, the larger majority of fans absolutely love Missy, despite her evil actions, even overlooking the murder of Osgood and blaming that squarely on Steven Moffat, because Missy's actress Michelle Gomez plays her with such [[AxCrazy batsh-t crazy]] glee that it's almost impossible NOT to love her. It helps that Missy actually ''did'' get a redemption arc in Series 10.

to:

** Speaking of the Master, his/her/their female incarnation Missy is definitely this, even to her haters. Missy turned all of humanity's dead into Cybermen, and coldbloodedly murdered fan favourite Osgood. She was undeniably an evil monster in her first season. But the small vocal minority of fans who hate Missy hate her NOT because of her evil actions, but because she's a she and they're vehemently opposed to the concept of Time Lords genderswapping during regeneration (the same reason that vocal minority attacks Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor). Conversely, the larger majority of fans absolutely love Missy, despite her evil actions, even overlooking the murder of Osgood and blaming that squarely on Steven Moffat, because Missy's actress Michelle Gomez plays her with such [[AxCrazy batsh-t crazy]] glee that it's almost impossible NOT to love her. It helps that Missy actually ''did'' get a redemption arc in Series 10.

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After she stabbed the Simm Master, he said he would become her, and he had a new regeneration cycle. There's no reason for this speculation.


** Speaking of the Master, Missy is definitely this, even to her haters. Missy turned all of humanity's dead into Cybermen, and coldbloodedly murdered fan favourite Osgood. She was undeniably an evil monster in her first season. But the small vocal minority of fans who hate Missy hate her NOT because of her evil actions, but because she's a she and they're vehemently opposed to the concept of Time Lords genderswapping during regeneration (the same reason that vocal minority attacks Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor).[[note]]Though strictly speaking, it's never been confirmed that Missy ''did'' genderswap during regeneration; The Master has stolen bodies before and may have done so again.[[/note]] Conversely, the larger majority of fans absolutely love Missy, despite her evil actions, even overlooking the murder of Osgood and blaming that squarely on Steven Moffat, because Missy's actress Michelle Gomez plays her with such [[AxCrazy batsh-t crazy]] glee that it's almost impossible NOT to love her. It helps that Missy actually ''did'' get a redemption arc in Series 10.

to:

** Speaking of the Master, Missy is definitely this, even to her haters. Missy turned all of humanity's dead into Cybermen, and coldbloodedly murdered fan favourite Osgood. She was undeniably an evil monster in her first season. But the small vocal minority of fans who hate Missy hate her NOT because of her evil actions, but because she's a she and they're vehemently opposed to the concept of Time Lords genderswapping during regeneration (the same reason that vocal minority attacks Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor).[[note]]Though strictly speaking, it's never been confirmed that Missy ''did'' genderswap during regeneration; The Master has stolen bodies before and may have done so again.[[/note]] Conversely, the larger majority of fans absolutely love Missy, despite her evil actions, even overlooking the murder of Osgood and blaming that squarely on Steven Moffat, because Missy's actress Michelle Gomez plays her with such [[AxCrazy batsh-t crazy]] glee that it's almost impossible NOT to love her. It helps that Missy actually ''did'' get a redemption arc in Series 10.

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** Speaking of the Master, Missy is definitely this, even to her haters. Missy turned all of humanity's dead into Cybermen, and coldbloodedly murdered fan favourite Osgood. She was undeniably an evil monster in her first season. But the small vocal minority of fans who hate Missy hate her NOT because of her evil actions, but because she's a she and they're vehemently opposed to the concept of Time Lords genderswapping during regeneration (the same reason that vocal minority attacks Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor).[[note]]Though strictly speaking, it's never been confirmed that Missy ''did'' genderswap during regeneration; The Master has stolen bodies before and may have done so again.[[/note]] Conversely, the larger majority of fans absolutely love Missy, despite her evil actions, even overlooking the murder of Osgood and blaming that squarely on Steven Moffat, because Missy's actress Michelle Gomez plays her with such [[AxCrazy batsh-t crazy]] glee that it's almost impossible NOT to love her.

to:

** Speaking of the Master, Missy is definitely this, even to her haters. Missy turned all of humanity's dead into Cybermen, and coldbloodedly murdered fan favourite Osgood. She was undeniably an evil monster in her first season. But the small vocal minority of fans who hate Missy hate her NOT because of her evil actions, but because she's a she and they're vehemently opposed to the concept of Time Lords genderswapping during regeneration (the same reason that vocal minority attacks Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor).[[note]]Though strictly speaking, it's never been confirmed that Missy ''did'' genderswap during regeneration; The Master has stolen bodies before and may have done so again.[[/note]] Conversely, the larger majority of fans absolutely love Missy, despite her evil actions, even overlooking the murder of Osgood and blaming that squarely on Steven Moffat, because Missy's actress Michelle Gomez plays her with such [[AxCrazy batsh-t crazy]] glee that it's almost impossible NOT to love her. It helps that Missy actually ''did'' get a redemption arc in Series 10.

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not only girls


* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'': Thanks to Spike's charisma and a combination of James Marsters's brilliant acting (he got his start in theater after all) and natural good looks, he had fangirls shipping him with Buffy as early as the second season, when he was still a brutal, violent killing machine. To say this confused the writers would be putting it lightly at best. David Fury once compared it to “people writing serial killers love letters in prison”.

to:

* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'': Thanks to Spike's charisma and a combination of James Marsters's brilliant acting (he got his start in theater after all) and natural good looks, he had fangirls fans shipping him with Buffy as early as the second season, when he was still a brutal, violent killing machine. To say this confused the writers would be putting it lightly at best. David Fury once compared it to “people writing serial killers love letters in prison”.

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* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'': Thanks to Spike's charisma and a combination of James Masters's brilliant acting (he got his start in theater after all) and natural good looks, he had fangirls shipping him with Buffy as early as the second season, when he was still a brutal, violent killing machine. To say this confused the writers would be putting it lightly at best. David Fury once compared it to “people writing serial killers love letters in prison”.

to:

* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'': Thanks to Spike's charisma and a combination of James Masters's Marsters's brilliant acting (he got his start in theater after all) and natural good looks, he had fangirls shipping him with Buffy as early as the second season, when he was still a brutal, violent killing machine. To say this confused the writers would be putting it lightly at best. David Fury once compared it to “people writing serial killers love letters in prison”.
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** In turn, the same group see Coulson and Daisy extremely harshly as a result. In the show Coulson is a flawed antihero who is called on his actions when he goes too far (Daisy, though loyal, has often questioned his decisions and at one point completely quits the organization), but the SWW fandom act like he's a dictator who is never called on his actions and Daisy is a blind loyalist who strives to be like him and May and never questions their decisions. Likewise, Daisy rejecting Ward is seen as her being unable to sympathize with people with problems (although she herself grew up in a series of loveless orphanages) and they treat her like she's a spoiled child, all the while ignoring the fact that she rejected him because she found out he was a ''murderous and manipulative HYDRA agent'' who killed people in front of her, kidnapped her, and, as said above, indirectly brain-damaged one of her best friends. For some reason, these aren't seen as good reasons to say no to someone.

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** In turn, the same group see Coulson and Daisy extremely harshly as a result. In the show Coulson is a flawed antihero who is called on his actions when he goes too far (Daisy, though loyal, has often questioned his decisions and at one point completely quits the organization), but the SWW fandom act like he's a dictator who is never called on his actions and Daisy is a blind loyalist who strives to be like him and May and never questions their decisions. Likewise, Daisy rejecting Ward is seen as her being unable to sympathize with people with problems (although she herself grew up in a series of loveless orphanages) and they treat her like she's a spoiled child, all the while ignoring the fact that she rejected him because she found out he was a ''murderous and manipulative HYDRA agent'' who killed people in front of her, kidnapped her, and, as said above, indirectly brain-damaged one of her best friends. For some reason, these aren't seen as good reasons to say no to someone.

Changed: 71

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None


** In turn, the same group see Coulson and Daisy extremely harshly as a result. In the show Coulson is a flawed antihero who is called on his actions when he goes too far (Daisy, though loyal, has often questioned his decisions and at one point completely quits the organization), but the SWW fandom act like he's a dictator who is never called on his actions and Daisy is a blind loyalist who strives to be like him and May and never questions their decisions. Likewise, Daisy rejecting Ward is seen as her being unable to sympathize with people with problems and treat her like she's a spoiled child, all the while ignoring the fact that she rejected him because she found out he was a ''murderous and manipulative HYDRA agent'' who killed people in front of her, kidnapped her, and, as said above, indirectly brain-damaged one of her best friends. For some reason, these aren't seen as good reasons to say no to someone.

to:

** In turn, the same group see Coulson and Daisy extremely harshly as a result. In the show Coulson is a flawed antihero who is called on his actions when he goes too far (Daisy, though loyal, has often questioned his decisions and at one point completely quits the organization), but the SWW fandom act like he's a dictator who is never called on his actions and Daisy is a blind loyalist who strives to be like him and May and never questions their decisions. Likewise, Daisy rejecting Ward is seen as her being unable to sympathize with people with problems (although she herself grew up in a series of loveless orphanages) and they treat her like she's a spoiled child, all the while ignoring the fact that she rejected him because she found out he was a ''murderous and manipulative HYDRA agent'' who killed people in front of her, kidnapped her, and, as said above, indirectly brain-damaged one of her best friends. For some reason, these aren't seen as good reasons to say no to someone.

Changed: 23

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let's be real, this is a big part of why fans like them


** To some extent, there are parallels towards the fandom for Ward and the fandom for Loki, who like Ward is an anti-villain with a complex grey morality and a sympathetic backstory. Loki being redeemable was a perfectly valid option for his character [[spoiler:and in ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', is exactly what he ultimately does]], so to some it makes sense to apply this to Ward as well. This ignores that Loki is openly hated InUniverse (with only his brother Thor having ''any'' lasting sympathy for him) as to be expected for someone who commits these crimes, and this is generally accepted as a reasonable reaction to have to him, yet it's seen as a cruel and unfair response to Ward.

to:

** To some extent, there are parallels towards the fandom for Ward and the fandom for Loki, who like Ward is an a physically attractive anti-villain with a complex grey morality and a sympathetic backstory. Loki being redeemable was a perfectly valid option for his character [[spoiler:and in ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', is exactly what he ultimately does]], so to some it makes sense to apply this to Ward as well. This ignores that Loki is openly hated InUniverse (with only his brother Thor having ''any'' lasting sympathy for him) as to be expected for someone who commits these crimes, and this is generally accepted as a reasonable reaction to have to him, yet it's seen as a cruel and unfair response to Ward.

Changed: 138

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None


** The writers have noted how much of Ward's actions in season three were a direct TakeThatAudience to this portion of fandom (following up from the character who actually ''says'' [[AscendedMeme "Stand With Ward"]] dying (accidentally) from Ward's gun at the end of season 2). Ward was shown as a full-on Hydra agent, ordering bombings, committing murders and even personally murdering Coulson's girlfriend. It didn't help the same season revealed that his younger brother Thomas, who had similarly been bullied, turned up and yet he [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse had never become a murderer like his brother]]. Yet, when he finally met his end, fans ''still'' contended Ward was a "tragic fallen hero" rather than the villain he'd always been. Later, season 4's Framework arc gave them a kinda-but-not-really AlternateUniverse version of him created by the AI Aida, who ''is'' genuinely heroic and redeemed himself, ostensibly to give them what they want, and ''still'' many were unhappy because it wasn't the ''real'' Ward (ironically, the rest of the fandom ended up loving him ''because'' he wasn't the 'real' Ward and so they didn't need to feel bad for liking him). Some point to Framework!Ward as proof that he could have been a hero if someone had taken on the job of making him one, but the Framework isn't really an alternate reality -- it's a virtual world made to be what Aida ''thinks'' the real world would be like if certain past events were changed, but she couldn't possibly account for every variable that might have influenced Ward's life.

to:

** The writers have noted how much of Ward's actions in season three were a direct TakeThatAudience to this portion of fandom (following up from the character who actually ''says'' [[AscendedMeme "Stand With Ward"]] dying (accidentally) from Ward's gun at the end of season 2). Ward was shown as a full-on Hydra agent, ordering bombings, committing murders and even personally murdering Coulson's girlfriend. It didn't help the same season revealed that his younger brother Thomas, who had similarly been bullied, turned up and yet he [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse had never become a murderer like his brother]]. Yet, when he finally met his end, fans ''still'' contended Ward was a "tragic fallen hero" rather than the villain he'd always been. Later, season 4's Framework arc gave them a kinda-but-not-really AlternateUniverse version of him created by the AI Aida, who ''is'' genuinely heroic and redeemed himself, ostensibly to give them what they want, and ''still'' many were unhappy because it wasn't the ''real'' Ward (ironically, the rest of the fandom ended up loving him ''because'' he wasn't the 'real' Ward and so they didn't need to feel bad for liking him). Some point to Framework!Ward as proof that he could have been a hero if someone had taken on the job of making him one, one -- the key change in his history was that S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Elizabeth Hand had become his mentor instead of HYDRA agent John Garrett -- but the Framework isn't really an alternate reality -- it's a virtual world made to be what Aida ''thinks'' the real world would be like if certain past events were changed, but she couldn't possibly account for every variable that might have influenced Ward's life.

Changed: 68

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None


* The 'Stand With Ward' fandom within ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'', who present Grant Ward as a victim of abuse who just needed support to redeem himself, and that Coulson and Skye/Daisy's refusal to forgive him is the real injustice. In the show proper, though Ward ''was'' abused by his parents, his older brother Christian, and his ParentalSubstitute Garrett and the show sympathised with that, he went on to abuse the team himself, manipulating and betraying them, with his actions in the first season culminating with him kidnapping Skye and later trying to kill Fitz and Simmons (forcing the former's escape plan to give himself brain damage in the process), which resulted in the cast being completely unable to forgive him. The main crux of this seems to be that Grant wanted redemption in the beginning of the second season, but only because he thought it would make Skye fall in love with him and was more akin to a sense of entitlement than actual longing to do good, and the idea that he deserves sympathy for his actions based on his abused past greatly contradicts the harsh judgement by these fans towards the cast for their reaction to Ward's abuse against them.

to:

* The 'Stand With Ward' fandom within ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'', who present the handsome Grant Ward as a victim of abuse who just needed support to redeem himself, and that Coulson and Skye/Daisy's refusal to forgive him for being a HYDRA [[TheMole mole]] within S.H.I.E.L.D. is the real injustice. In the show proper, though Ward ''was'' abused by his parents, his older brother Christian, and his ParentalSubstitute Garrett and the show sympathised with that, he went on to abuse the team himself, manipulating and betraying them, with his actions in the first season culminating with him kidnapping Skye and later trying to kill Fitz and Simmons (forcing the former's escape plan to give himself brain damage in the process), which resulted in the cast being completely unable to forgive him. The main crux of this seems to be that Grant wanted redemption in the beginning of the second season, but only because he thought it would make Skye fall in love with him and was more akin to a sense of entitlement than actual longing to do good, and the idea that he deserves sympathy for his actions based on his abused past greatly contradicts the harsh judgement by these fans towards the cast for their reaction to Ward's abuse against them.

Changed: 55

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Thomas was never thought to have drowned, it was always explicit that he only almost drowned


** The writers have noted how much of Ward's actions in season three were a direct TakeThatAudience to this portion of fandom (following up from the character who actually ''says'' [[AscendedMeme "Stand With Ward"]] dying (accidentally) from Ward's gun at the end of season 2). Ward was shown as a full-on Hydra agent, ordering bombings, committing murders and even personally murdering Coulson's girlfriend. It didn't help the same season revealed that his younger brother Thomas, who had similarly been bullied and was previously thought to have drowned, turned up alive and yet he [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse never became a murderer like his brother]]. Yet, when he finally met his end, fans ''still'' contended Ward was a "tragic fallen hero" rather than the villain he'd always been. Later, season 4's Framework arc gave them a kinda-but-not-really AlternateUniverse version of him created by the AI Aida, who ''is'' genuinely heroic and redeemed himself, ostensibly to give them what they want, and ''still'' many were unhappy because it wasn't the ''real'' Ward (ironically, the rest of the fandom ended up loving him ''because'' he wasn't the 'real' Ward and so they didn't need to feel bad for liking him). Some point to Framework!Ward as proof that he could have been a hero if someone had taken on the job of making him one, but the Framework isn't really an alternate reality -- it's a virtual world made to be what Aida ''thinks'' the real world would be like if certain past events were changed, but she couldn't possibly account for every variable that might have influenced Ward's life.

to:

** The writers have noted how much of Ward's actions in season three were a direct TakeThatAudience to this portion of fandom (following up from the character who actually ''says'' [[AscendedMeme "Stand With Ward"]] dying (accidentally) from Ward's gun at the end of season 2). Ward was shown as a full-on Hydra agent, ordering bombings, committing murders and even personally murdering Coulson's girlfriend. It didn't help the same season revealed that his younger brother Thomas, who had similarly been bullied and was previously thought to have drowned, bullied, turned up alive and yet he [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse had never became become a murderer like his brother]]. Yet, when he finally met his end, fans ''still'' contended Ward was a "tragic fallen hero" rather than the villain he'd always been. Later, season 4's Framework arc gave them a kinda-but-not-really AlternateUniverse version of him created by the AI Aida, who ''is'' genuinely heroic and redeemed himself, ostensibly to give them what they want, and ''still'' many were unhappy because it wasn't the ''real'' Ward (ironically, the rest of the fandom ended up loving him ''because'' he wasn't the 'real' Ward and so they didn't need to feel bad for liking him). Some point to Framework!Ward as proof that he could have been a hero if someone had taken on the job of making him one, but the Framework isn't really an alternate reality -- it's a virtual world made to be what Aida ''thinks'' the real world would be like if certain past events were changed, but she couldn't possibly account for every variable that might have influenced Ward's life.

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