History Main / WarIsHell

17th May '16 3:53:08 AM aartbastiaan
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[[WaxingLyrical War! Hunh! Good God, y'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nuthin'!]] (Though the BloodKnight definitely disagrees.)

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[[WaxingLyrical War! Hunh! Good God, y'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nuthin'!]] (Though the BloodKnight definitely disagrees.)
) TruthInTelevision, obviously.



TruthInTelevision, though fiction may exaggerate, and the degree to which this is true will vary from war to war, country to country, and even soldier to soldier. One thing sure, someone is going to [[TearJerker cry]]. Few works that use this trope agree with (and some don't even acknowledge) the idea that [[YouAreWorthHell war can be preferable to/easier than many/most/all other courses of action]].
22nd Mar '16 8:47:24 PM Gemfyre
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* In the sixth chapter of ''Shielded Under the Raptor's Wings'', titled [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8514416/9/Shielded-Under-the-Raptor-s-Wings "The Truth of War"]], a Minbari ground force launches a charge on open terrain against a Human force that outnumber and outguns them by a large margin, and gets graphically slaughtered. This was done because, otherwise, the Minbari back home would have dismissed the tales of the survivors (those who had been evaquated in time, those who had already spent there their tours of duty before evaquation became necessary, and those too wounded to fight) as the justifications of cowards.

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* In the sixth chapter of ''Shielded Under the Raptor's Wings'', titled [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8514416/9/Shielded-Under-the-Raptor-s-Wings "The Truth of War"]], a Minbari ground force launches a charge on open terrain against a Human force that outnumber and outguns them by a large margin, and gets graphically slaughtered. This was done because, otherwise, the Minbari back home would have dismissed the tales of the survivors (those who had been evaquated in time, those who had already spent there their tours of duty before evaquation evacuation became necessary, and those too wounded to fight) as the justifications of cowards.


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** Harry Welsh also says this to Dick Winters after inquiring about how his (rather minor) ricochet injury is healing.
3rd Mar '16 11:57:11 AM captainmarkle
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* As with the Film examples above, several TV series deal with the effects of war on both soldiers and civilians, including Vietnam-era shows ''Series/ChinaBeach'', ''Series/TourOfDuty'', the pilot episode of ''Series/TheWonderYears'' (where [[spoiler: Winnie's brother dies]]) and the modern-day ''Series/CombatHospital''.

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* As with the Film examples above, several TV series deal with the effects of war on both soldiers and civilians, including Vietnam-era [[TheVietnamVet Vietnam-era]] shows ''Series/ChinaBeach'', ''Series/TourOfDuty'', the pilot episode of ''Series/TheWonderYears'' (where [[spoiler: Winnie's brother dies]]) and the modern-day ''Series/CombatHospital''.
15th Feb '16 11:06:11 AM bobwolf
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Added DiffLines:

** When war does come, it is as horrible as imagined. [[spoiler: Sweet [[RobotGirl Penny]]'s accidental death starts off a massive invasion that ends with [[HotBlooded Yang]] losing [[AnArmAndALeg an arm]] and [[HeroicBsod her fighting spirit]], [[TheAce Pyrrha]] losing her life in a fight to the death, and Ozpin missing in action. The school has to be abandoned and these are just the opening shots of the war.]]
15th Feb '16 10:11:37 AM narm00
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* The drawings of Otto Dix, who experienced it first hand during WorldWarOne.

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* The drawings of Otto Dix, who experienced it first hand during WorldWarOne.UsefulNotes/WorldWarI.



* The main character of ''ComicBook/TheBoyWhoWantedWar'' thought that WarIsGlorious and so he get himself into the space army. After that, he realized that his parents have a good reason to try to keep him from the war.

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* The main character of ''ComicBook/TheBoyWhoWantedWar'' thought that WarIsGlorious and so he get got himself into the space army. After that, he realized that his parents have had a good reason to try to keep him from the war.






* ''Fanfic/WhatAboutWitchQueen'' isn't too graphic in its depiction of war, but the Hell is there, especially during the fights in Stone Streams, which end up looking a bit like trench warfare, with bodies being trampled, people fighting not only with swords and crossbows, but also ''nails and teeth'' and both sides taking horrible casualties. TheChainsOfCommanding weight heavily on some characters and both sides have bastards and normal people among them. There are some disturbing scenes, such as when one character crawls out of a pile of dead bodies where he was PlayingPossum and his friends nearly shoot him because they think his usually-blue uniform is red. There's also this moment where unnamed Weselton soldier manages to walk out of explosion zone, but dies moments later, because, in the words of narrative, he was "pouring blood from everywhere".

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* ''Fanfic/WhatAboutWitchQueen'' isn't too graphic in its depiction of war, but the Hell is there, especially during the fights in Stone Streams, which end up looking a bit like trench warfare, with bodies being trampled, people fighting not only with swords and crossbows, but also ''nails and teeth'' and both sides taking horrible casualties. TheChainsOfCommanding weight weigh heavily on some characters and both sides have bastards and normal people among them. There are some disturbing scenes, such as when one character crawls out of a pile of dead bodies where he was PlayingPossum and his friends nearly shoot him because they think his usually-blue uniform is red. There's also this moment where unnamed Weselton soldier manages to walk out of explosion zone, but dies moments later, because, in the words of narrative, he was "pouring blood from everywhere".




* FanFic/HarmonyTheory: Though the Solar Kingdom and Lunar Republic haven't officially come to blows(Yet), the fighting that has happened is extremely brutal and graphic. Especially from the relatively pacifistic Rainbow Dash [[spoiler: and later, the rest of the mane six.]] who has woken up in this future and not used to warfare.

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\n* FanFic/HarmonyTheory: Though the Solar Kingdom and Lunar Republic haven't officially come to blows(Yet), the fighting that has happened is extremely brutal and graphic. Especially from the relatively pacifistic Rainbow Dash [[spoiler: and later, the rest of the mane six.]] who has woken up in this future and not isn't used to warfare.



* ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s Acheron plays this literally: the LawfulNeutral (leaning Evil) afterlife, it forms the counterpoint to the ChaoticNeutral (leaning Good) WarriorHeaven of Ysgard. Souls who die happily in pointless conflicts, fight for its own sake, or serve evil war gods wind up here. They are now forever conscripted in eternal and utterly pointless conflicts over near-resourceless and openly hostile land that no sane person would want to own. If the endless bloody battles don't get to you, don't worry; the occasional rains of steel, random petrification, or giant war cubes crashing into each other will do the trick. Part of the reason the commanders in Acheron's many pointless conflicts need to recruit at all is that armies tend to quickly disintegrate into broken, warring factions - even if they did have a goal in mind at the start, a mix of terrible conditions and the already-latent BloodKnight leanings of the soldiers inevitably results in their goals being reduced to "kill everyone, starting with all the other armies."

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s Acheron plays this literally: the LawfulNeutral (leaning Evil) afterlife, it forms the counterpoint to the ChaoticNeutral (leaning Good) WarriorHeaven of Ysgard. Souls who die happily in pointless conflicts, fight for its own sake, or serve evil war gods wind up here. They are now forever conscripted in eternal and utterly pointless conflicts over near-resourceless and openly hostile land that no sane person would want to own. If the endless bloody battles don't get to you, don't worry; the occasional rains of steel, random petrification, or giant war cubes crashing into each other will do the trick. Part of the reason the commanders in Acheron's many pointless conflicts need to recruit at all is that armies tend to quickly disintegrate into broken, warring factions - even if they did have a goal in mind at the start, a mix of terrible conditions and the already-latent BloodKnight leanings of the soldiers inevitably results in their goals being reduced to "kill everyone, starting with all the other armies."



** And this is before we get to ''The Tale of Iroh'' in the ''[[Recap/AvatarTheLastAirbenderTheTalesOfBaSingSe Tales of Ba Sing Se]]'' episode, which shows the quiet but powerful sadness of a father losing his son to the war. [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped It hammers home the message of the inevitable personal consequences of war, and why it should not be entered into lightly.]] If there's a way to show this trope responsibly in a kid's show, ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' is probably the best example that you could possibly find. It even won a Peabody Award for it's responsible, yet brutal depiction of war, along with its CharacterDevelopment.

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** And this is before we get to ''The Tale of Iroh'' in the ''[[Recap/AvatarTheLastAirbenderTheTalesOfBaSingSe Tales of Ba Sing Se]]'' episode, which shows the quiet but powerful sadness of a father losing his son to the war. [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped It hammers home the message of the inevitable personal consequences of war, and why it should not be entered into lightly.]] If there's a way to show this trope responsibly in a kid's show, ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' is probably the best example that you could possibly find. It even won a Peabody Award for it's its responsible, yet brutal depiction of war, along with its CharacterDevelopment.



* Shows up in ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' of all places: The episode [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS5E25TheCutieRemarkPart1 The Cutie Remark]] succinctly conveys this [[spoiler: in an [[BadFuture alternative timeline]] where King Sombra has conquered half of Equestria with his slave army and all of Equestria is mobilized in total war just to hold him off. Half the cast have given up their dreams and work in factories to keep the war machine running and the other half are hardened front line soldiers. Rainbow Dash in particular has chunk missing out of her ear, has a scar across one of her eyes and has replaced one of her wings with a metal prosthesis.]]

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* Shows up in ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' of all places: The episode [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS5E25TheCutieRemarkPart1 The Cutie Remark]] succinctly conveys this [[spoiler: in an [[BadFuture alternative timeline]] where King Sombra has conquered half of Equestria with his slave army and all of Equestria is mobilized in total war just to hold him off. Half the cast have given up their dreams and work in factories to keep the war machine running and the other half are hardened front line soldiers. Rainbow Dash in particular has a chunk missing out of her ear, has a scar across one of her eyes and has replaced one of her wings with a metal prosthesis.]]
11th Feb '16 9:23:59 AM SinDustries
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This doesn't necessarily discredit war or render it obsolete. If anything, this trope has helped promote justifications of conflict along the lines of it being either a "NecessarilyEvil" or an undesirable, last-ditch option when more peaceful means fail. In that regard, especially in North America and Britain, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII is the shining example of that considering the despicable [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany nature of]] [[UsefulNotes/KatanasOfTheRisingSun their enemies]] and the fact that they were the victors with relatively light losses. In addition, paradoxically and in one of the most confounding ironies known to man, it's been argued that war in some sense ''has'' [[http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-the-long-run-wars-make-us-safer-and-richer/2014/04/25/a4207660-c965-11e3-a75e-463587891b57_story.html been good for something]]: namely helping make larger, stable and more peaceful societies possible while reducing the risk of violence over time, and thus ''less'' war.

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This doesn't necessarily discredit war or render it obsolete. If anything, this trope has helped promote justifications of conflict along the lines of it being either a "NecessarilyEvil" [[NecessarilyEvil necessary evil]] or an undesirable, last-ditch option when more peaceful means fail. In that regard, especially in North America and Britain, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII is the shining example of that considering the despicable [[UsefulNotes/NaziGermany nature of]] [[UsefulNotes/KatanasOfTheRisingSun their enemies]] and the fact that they were the victors with relatively light losses. In addition, paradoxically and in one of the most confounding ironies known to man, it's been argued that war in some sense ''has'' [[http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-the-long-run-wars-make-us-safer-and-richer/2014/04/25/a4207660-c965-11e3-a75e-463587891b57_story.html been good for something]]: namely helping make larger, stable and more peaceful societies possible while reducing the risk of violence over time, and thus ''less'' war.
11th Feb '16 9:13:23 AM SinDustries
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However, since the moral justification for ''that'' war were obvious to everyone fighting, in the fields and factories, and overseas, the horrors of war were just that bit more bearable than they might otherwise have been on account of it them being done in a genuinely good cause. The trope was only really... [[ObligatoryJoke entrenched]]... in European and Euro-sphere culture during UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, which was far bloodier and had no great moral cause that the people fighting it could comfort themselves with - though during the war itself the British successfully managed to slander Germany as an aggressive expansionist power that wanted to dominate the world (she'd had problems, but wanting to TakeOverTheWorld wasn't one of them). Thanks to near-universal conscription in all the major countries of Europe, a large number of writers and poets of the early 20th century had combat-experience, and they did not like what they saw. Well, there was this [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler one recorded World War I soldier]] who ''did'' enjoy his wartime experience spent safely out of harm's way in a series of cosy bunkers (''mostly'' - he was wounded by a shell and then reassigned to a desk job in Munich, but requested and received a transfer back to his old job) [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII and went on to start the most destructive war in human history]] - a war which ensured that this trope endured in modern culture even into the 21st century.

to:

However, since the moral justification for ''that'' war were was obvious to everyone fighting, in the fields and factories, and overseas, the horrors of war were just that bit more bearable than they might otherwise have been on account of it them being done in a genuinely good cause. The trope was only really... [[ObligatoryJoke entrenched]]... in European and Euro-sphere culture during UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, which was far bloodier and had no great moral cause that the people fighting it could comfort themselves with - though during the war itself the British successfully managed to slander Germany as an aggressive expansionist power that wanted to dominate the world (she'd had problems, but wanting to TakeOverTheWorld wasn't one of them). Thanks to near-universal conscription in all the major countries of Europe, a large number of writers and poets of the early 20th century had combat-experience, and they did not like what they saw. Well, there was this [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler one recorded World War I soldier]] who ''did'' enjoy his wartime experience spent safely out of harm's way in a series of cosy bunkers (''mostly'' - he was wounded by a shell and then reassigned to a desk job in Munich, but requested and received a transfer back to his old job) [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII and went on to start the most destructive war in human history]] - a war which ensured that this trope endured in modern culture even into the 21st century.
8th Feb '16 8:20:53 AM Theriocephalus
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* ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' does this a lot to contrast itself to the first, Tartakosky series which was "WarIsGlorious". [[spoiler: First shown in ''Rookies'' where a group of clones tries to retake an outpost...only two survive besides [[MauveShirt Rex and Cody]]. Its really hammered in hard during the Kaminoian Invasion where 99, a defective Clone is killed. And finally in the latest Umbara Arc? Its so hellish (and the Jedi General is evil since he was defecting), the Clones are ''tricked to killing each other''.]]

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* ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' does this a lot to contrast itself to the first, Tartakosky series which was "WarIsGlorious".WarIsGlorious. [[spoiler: First shown in ''Rookies'' where a group of clones tries to retake an outpost... only two survive besides [[MauveShirt Rex and Cody]]. Its It's really hammered in hard during the Kaminoian Invasion where 99, a defective Clone Clone, is killed. And finally in the latest Umbara Arc? Its It's so hellish (and the Jedi General is evil since he was defecting), and planning to defect), the Clones are ''tricked to killing each other''.]]
18th Jan '16 5:26:33 PM Wyldchyld
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* ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'': General Ironwood and Professor Ozpin do not agree on how to handle threats of war and terrorism. Ironwood throws military might at problems whereas Ozpin prefers investigation before making a move. Glynda mentions that Ozpin has experience everyone else lacks and he is implied to be unusually ancient, probably having lived through Remnant's last war of 80 years ago. Although Ironwood thinks Ozpin is prepping his students for war, Ozpin is actually hoping the kids never have to fight one.

to:

* ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'': General Ironwood and Professor Ozpin do not agree on how to handle threats of war and terrorism. Ironwood throws military might at problems whereas Ozpin prefers investigation before making a move. Glynda mentions that Ozpin has experience everyone else lacks and he is implied to be unusually ancient, probably having lived through Remnant's last war of 80 years ago. Although Ironwood thinks Ozpin is prepping his students for war, Ozpin is actually hoping the kids [[PreventTheWar never have to fight one.one]].
18th Jan '16 5:24:51 PM Wyldchyld
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* ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'': General Ironwood and Professor Ozpin do not agree on how to handle threats of war and terrorism. Ironwood throws military might at problems whereas Ozpin prefers to investigation before making a move. Glynda mentions that Ozpin has experience everyone else lacks and he is implied to be unusually ancient, probably having lived through Remnant's last war of 80 years ago. Although Ironwood thinks Ozpin is prepping his students for war, Ozpin is actually hoping the kids never have to fight one.

to:

* ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'': General Ironwood and Professor Ozpin do not agree on how to handle threats of war and terrorism. Ironwood throws military might at problems whereas Ozpin prefers to investigation before making a move. Glynda mentions that Ozpin has experience everyone else lacks and he is implied to be unusually ancient, probably having lived through Remnant's last war of 80 years ago. Although Ironwood thinks Ozpin is prepping his students for war, Ozpin is actually hoping the kids never have to fight one.
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