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* While they were serious from the start, it wasn't until the third game it became clear that this's ''{{Halo}}'''s main {{aesop}}. Yes lovable main characters were killed in the first game, and the second game became more uglier about the situation, but that was out-shadowed by [[TruffautWasRight awesome playstyle, story, weapons and a badass play character]]. But by the time of third game, all of that were throwed right out of the window. ''Halo3'' was not afraid to show how shitty a [[MeleeATrios three-sided war between Humanity, a galactic empire made of genocidal, fanatical aliens and a parasitic species of undead monsters]] would be; [[AnyoneCanDie Anyone can (and will) die]], even main characters as [[spoiler:Sgt. Johnson, Miranda Keyes, 343 Guilty Spark, Prophet of Truth, etc]], cities are burned to the ground, billions are killed, even the most [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Ineffectual Sympathetic]] {{Mooks}} becomes [[TookALevelInBadass ferocious]], [[TakingYouWithMe bloodthirsty]] [[NotSoHarmless warriors]] after had been though wars long enough, people suffers from psychological damages of the whole thing, and not just biological creatures but also supposedly unliving machines such as Cortana, [[spoiler:whose torture at the hands of Gravemind almost makes her cracked and gives her depression]], 343 Guilty Spark, [[spoiler:whose insolation for the last 100,000 years and status as the canon {{scrappy}} becomes to much for him to handle and snaps into a dangerous, literally, killing machine]], and Mendicant Bias, [[spoiler:whose 100,000 years of overwhelming guilt because of his treason against the Forerunners cause him to sacrifice himself to help Master Chief]], and Master Cheif [[spoiler:ends up in no-ending space without any way to get back to Earth]].

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* While they were serious from the start, it wasn't until the third game it became clear that this's ''{{Halo}}'''s main {{aesop}}. Yes lovable main characters were killed in the first game, and the second game became more uglier about the situation, but that was out-shadowed by [[TruffautWasRight awesome playstyle, story, weapons and a badass play character]]. But by the time of third game, all of that were throwed right out of the window. ''Halo3'' was not afraid to show how shitty a [[MeleeATrios [[MeeleATrios three-sided war between Humanity, a galactic empire made of genocidal, fanatical aliens and a parasitic species of undead monsters]] would be; [[AnyoneCanDie Anyone can (and will) die]], even main characters as [[spoiler:Sgt. Johnson, Miranda Keyes, 343 Guilty Spark, Prophet of Truth, etc]], cities are burned to the ground, billions are killed, even the most [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Ineffectual Sympathetic]] {{Mooks}} becomes [[TookALevelInBadass ferocious]], [[TakingYouWithMe bloodthirsty]] [[NotSoHarmless warriors]] after had been though wars long enough, people suffers from psychological damages of the whole thing, and not just biological creatures but also supposedly unliving machines such as Cortana, [[spoiler:whose torture at the hands of Gravemind almost makes her cracked and gives her depression]], 343 Guilty Spark, [[spoiler:whose insolation for the last 100,000 years and status as the canon {{scrappy}} becomes to much for him to handle and snaps into a dangerous, literally, killing machine]], and Mendicant Bias, [[spoiler:whose 100,000 years of overwhelming guilt because of his treason against the Forerunners cause him to sacrifice himself to help Master Chief]], and Master Cheif [[spoiler:ends up in no-ending space without any way to get back to Earth]].
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* While they were serious from the start, it wasn't until the third game it became clear that this's ''{{Halo}}'''s main {{aesop}}. Yes lovable main characters were killed in the first game, and the second game became more uglier about the situation, but that was out-shadowed by [[TruffautWasRight awesome playstyle, story, weapons and a badass play character]]. But by the time of third game, all of that were throwed right out of the window. ''Halo3'' was not afraid to show how shitty a [[MeleeATrios three-sided war between Humanity, a galactic empire made of genocidal, fanatical aliens and a parasitic species of undead monsters]] would be; [[AnyoneCanDie Anyone can (and will) die]], even main characters as [[spoiler:Sgt. Johnson, Miranda Keyes, 343 Guilty Spark, Prophet of Truth, etc]], cities are burned to the ground, billions are killed, even the most [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain Ineffectual Sympathetic]] {{Mooks}} becomes [[TookALevelInBadass ferocious]], [[TakingYouWithMe bloodthirsty]] [[NotSoHarmless warriors]] after had been though wars long enough, people suffers from psychological damages of the whole thing, and not just biological creatures but also supposedly unliving machines such as Cortana, [[spoiler:whose torture at the hands of Gravemind almost makes her cracked and gives her depression]], 343 Guilty Spark, [[spoiler:whose insolation for the last 100,000 years and status as the canon {{scrappy}} becomes to much for him to handle and snaps into a dangerous, literally, killing machine]], and Mendicant Bias, [[spoiler:whose 100,000 years of overwhelming guilt because of his treason against the Forerunners cause him to sacrifice himself to help Master Chief]], and Master Cheif [[spoiler:ends up in no-ending space without any way to get back to Earth]].
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* FrontMission Manga and Light Novels are very much in the WarIsHell territory, showing the brutality of war in general
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* ''LegendOfTheGuardiansTheOwlsOfGaHoole'' manages to hammer this home.
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* Jinroh Wolf Brigade paints a rather vivid image of a post World War Two Japan where the Nazis were victorious, with rioting in the streets, child terrorists and the realpolitica power plays with the CAPO and Public Security backstabbing each other. Bonus points for the main character [[spoiler:shooting his girlfriend rebel before a sniper killed both of them]].
* VoicesOfADistantStar and ThePlacePromisedInOurEarlyDays, though they are less about the war and more about the people living in a war state. The former is about futuristic war, and the latter is about the ColdWar [[ItGotWorse gone bad]].

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* Jinroh ''Jinroh Wolf Brigade Brigade'' paints a rather vivid image of a post World War Two Japan where the Nazis were victorious, with rioting in the streets, child terrorists and the realpolitica power plays with the CAPO and Public Security backstabbing each other. Bonus points for the main character [[spoiler:shooting his girlfriend rebel before a sniper killed both of them]].
* VoicesOfADistantStar ''VoicesOfADistantStar'' and ThePlacePromisedInOurEarlyDays, ''ThePlacePromisedInOurEarlyDays'', though they are less about the war and more about the people living in a war state. The former is about futuristic war, and the latter is about the ColdWar [[ItGotWorse gone bad]].



* ''BlackHawkDown'': A war where the people you are nominally fighting for are also the enemy: the experience of fighting an unwinnable war.

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* ''BlackHawkDown'': A war where the people you are nominally fighting for are also the enemy: the experience of fighting an unwinnable war. Also see WarIsGlorious for the side of this film.



* ''TheThinRedLine'': American soldiers faced with the brutality of the WWII Japanese military struggling not to commit retaliatory war crimes. Lots of GrayAndGrayMorality, honest TearJerker moments and serious contemplation about whether war is an inevitable part of human civilization or not.

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* ''TheThinRedLine'': American soldiers faced with the brutality of the WWII World War II Japanese military struggling not to commit retaliatory war crimes. Lots of GrayAndGrayMorality, honest TearJerker moments and serious contemplation about whether war is an inevitable part of human civilization or not.



* IronMaiden's ''2 Minutes to Midnight''

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* IronMaiden's [[IronMaiden Iron Maiden's]] ''2 Minutes to Midnight''



** The first MGS was a condemnation of nuclear proliferation and MGS 2 had too much MindScrew to be able to be able to tell what its message ''was''. The first real, unflinching look at war and what it does to its soldiers is in MGS 3, in which [[spoiler: Big Boss is forced to assassinate The Boss, the greatest hero of WWII and the single most important person in his life, all because factions of the Philosophers are fighting over ''money''.]] The core message is that there is no such thing as an enemy in absolute terms, and that our allies today might be our enemies tomorrow. This is because our enemies are human beings, just like us. The game hammers that point home with the subtlety of an anvil, but it's a [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped very effective]] message.

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** The first MGS was a condemnation of ''MetalGearSolid'' condems nuclear proliferation and MGS 2 proliferation
** ''[[MetalGearSolid Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]''
had too much MindScrew to be able to be able to tell what its message ''was''. The first real, ''was''.
** ''[[MetalGearSolid Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'' is an
unflinching look at war and what it does to its soldiers is in MGS 3, in which soldiers. [[spoiler: The Big Boss is forced to assassinate The Boss, the greatest hero of WWII World War II and the single most important person in his life, all because factions of the Philosophers are fighting over ''money''.]] The core message is that there is no such thing as an enemy in absolute terms, and that our allies today might be our enemies tomorrow. This is because our enemies are human beings, just like us. The game hammers that point home with the subtlety of an anvil, but it's a [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped very effective]] message.
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After some thought, removing the conflicting comment about Black Hawk Down to the discussion page. Firstly the article shouldn't argue against itself, secondly it just doesn't gel with the film. The history may well be as described but the raid is depicted as a bloody futile disaster in the film, in fact its the main point of the film. And then there is the difference between the raid (which fails outright in the film) and the rescue mission (which costs many more lives than it saves, vastly more on the enemy side.) All In all I think the original comment is roughly correct in terms of the movies themes, regardless of the Real World history.


* ''SavingPrivateRyan'': the meat-grinder of the D-Day landings: the traumatic chaos and helplessness in the face of extreme violence.
** It should be noted that the intro to SPR ''played down'' what a nightmare the Omaha Beach landing was by showing it being over relatively quickly. Extend that scene out to two hours if you want to imagine the real thing.

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* ''SavingPrivateRyan'': the meat-grinder of the D-Day landings: the traumatic chaos and helplessness in the face of extreme violence.
** It should be noted that
violence. In fact the intro to SPR opening ''played down'' what a nightmare the Omaha Beach landing was by showing it being over relatively quickly. Extend that scene out to two hours if you want to imagine the real thing.



** ''{{YMMV}}'', as the events were not a war but a single raid, the raid is usually considered as an example of extreme heroism given the situation, and the situation on the ground was quite different from the political shockwave back home. The 180 man raid was able to oppose approximately 3,000-5,000 combatants and still complete the mission despite things going [[ItGotWorse very, very wrong]] at every step. Both the book and film depict the horror of the mission but also the extraordinary success and tenacity of the Americans in completing the raid. [[UnfortunateImplications Neither]] really takes much of a look at the consequences of having less than two hundred men engage in a firefight with several thousand of your people - and kill somewhere between 700 and 3,000 of them. Regardless, even with serious problems in command and control hindering the raid, it was considered a major coup to pull it off.
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Move the page image to the right and make it smaller: it's a powerful image and was overwhelming the text. Move the extra quote to the quotes page. Rework the main text: the middle paragraph was too long and there were several parenthetical comments that broke up the flow. Also fixed up some the examples — mostly formatting and linking issues.


http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Otto_Dix_-_Suicide_in_the_Trenches_9973.jpg
[[caption-width:295:Otto Dix, ''Suicide in the Trenches'' - accomplished by pressing the trigger with the bare big toe.]]

->''"It is well that war is so terrible, [[HarsherInHindsight otherwise we would]] [[WarIsGlorious grow too fond of it]]."''
-->--'''General Robert E. Lee'''

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[[caption-width-right:221:Otto
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->''"It is well that war is so terrible, [[HarsherInHindsight otherwise we would]] [[WarIsGlorious grow too fond of it]]."''
-->--'''General Robert E. Lee'''
trigger.]]



War is a hellish, traumatizing nightmare, and anyone who comes out of it alive will end up a ShellShockedSenior or worse while those who take pleasure in it are AxCrazy.

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War is a hellish, traumatizing nightmare, and anyone who comes out of it alive will end up a ShellShockedSenior or worse while those who take pleasure in it are AxCrazy.



As a theme, WarIsHell started to pop up in a significant way in the United States, where the AmericanCivilWar, the first true industrial war, chewed through the American population and much of the countryside. However, since the reasons for that war were obvious to everyone fighting (even if people on the same side disagreed about which were important/worthy), the trope only really caught on with WorldWarI, which was long, bloody, and seemingly pointless. Thanks to near-universal conscription in all the major countries of Europe, a large number of writers and poets of the early 20th century had experience on the front lines, and they did not like what they saw. The [[AdolfHitler identity]] of the only recorded World War I soldier who ''did'' enjoy his wartime experience probably entrenched the trope in Western culture ever afterward; as a result, even works (serious ones, not ones that were mere [[PatrioticFervor propaganda pieces]]) about "[[WorldWarII the Good War]]" couldn't go without at least acknowledging the nastiness integral to war.

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As a theme, WarIsHell started to pop up in a significant way in
The AmericanCivilWar prompted an early expression of
the United States, where the AmericanCivilWar, trope. It was the first true industrial war, war and chewed through the American population and much of the countryside. However, since the reasons for that war were obvious to everyone fighting (even if people on the same side disagreed about which were important/worthy), fighting, the trope only really caught on with WorldWarI, which was long, bloody, and seemingly pointless. Thanks to near-universal conscription in all the major countries of Europe, a large number of writers and poets of the early 20th century had experience on the front lines, and they did not like what they saw. The [[AdolfHitler identity]] of the only recorded World War I soldier who ''did'' enjoy his wartime experience probably entrenched the trope in Western culture ever afterward; as a result, even works (serious ones, not ones that were mere afterward.

Baring
[[PatrioticFervor propaganda pieces]]) propaganda]], even works about "[[WorldWarII WorldWarII, the Good War]]" "Good War", couldn't go without at least acknowledging the nastiness integral to war.



Some past societies taught men (mostly) from birth that [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy war and killing was their destiny]], so they avoided this problem.

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Some Many past societies taught men (mostly) from birth that [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy war and killing was their [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy noble destiny]], so they avoided this problem.



* ''{{Saikano}}'' is incredibly {{Anvilicious}} about this. [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped It]] [[TropesAreNotBad works]]. [[TearJerker Well]] for some. However, YourMileageMayVary. [[hottip:*: Character design is problematic; a pair of high school lovers has one look twelve and the other fourty.]]

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* ''{{Saikano}}'' is incredibly {{Anvilicious}} about this. [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped It]] [[TropesAreNotBad works]]. [[TearJerker Well]] for some. However, YourMileageMayVary. [[hottip:*: Character design is problematic; a pair of high school lovers has one look twelve and the other fourty.]]



* Often turns up in ''RogueTrooper'' to offset [[WarIsGlorious the exciting adventures]]. Many a story ends something like this:

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* Often turns up in ''RogueTrooper'' ''Rogue Trooper'' to offset [[WarIsGlorious the exciting adventures]]. Many a story ends something like this:



* Interestingly, {{Troma}} got in on this trope with ''CombatShock'', an '''extremely''' [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel brutal]] and [[TearJerker bleak]] depiction of the VietnamWar and one veteran's attempt to rebuild his life. [[spoiler: He ends up having a flashback and murdering his wife and young child. He snaps out of it, [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone realizes what he just did,]] and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself.]]]]

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* Interestingly, {{Troma}} got in on this trope with ''CombatShock'', ''Combat Shock'', an '''extremely''' ''extremely'' [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel brutal]] and [[TearJerker bleak]] depiction of the VietnamWar and one veteran's attempt to rebuild his life. [[spoiler: He ends up having a flashback and murdering his wife and young child. He snaps out of it, [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone realizes what he just did,]] and [[DrivenToSuicide kills himself.]]]]



** ''{{Platoon}}''. Set in Vietnam, this movie does not attempt balance: it is an all-out WarIsHell work. It contains war crimes including murder and attempted rape, graphic imagery of violent death and maiming, PTSD, drug use, mistaken fire on friendly units, and focuses on lethal infighting.
*** For the record, the drug use was generally one of the more ''positive'' elements the protagonist encountered.

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** ''{{Platoon}}''. Set in Vietnam, this movie does not attempt balance: it is an all-out WarIsHell work. It contains war crimes including murder and attempted rape, graphic imagery of violent death and maiming, PTSD, drug use, mistaken fire on friendly units, and focuses on lethal infighting.
*** For
infighting. [[hottip:*:For the record, the drug use was generally one of the more ''positive'' elements the protagonist encountered.]]



* ''TheGunsOfNavarone''. Every win comes at a price. The line which separates right and wrong becomes very blurry in pursuit of victory.
** After the team escapes captivity, the Nazis torch the village of Mandrakos. Imagine what they will do to every village in Navarone now that the guns are destroyed.
** Butcher Brown suffers Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after his combat in the Spanish Civil War.

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* ''TheGunsOfNavarone''. Every win comes at a price. The line which separates right and wrong becomes very blurry in pursuit of victory.
**
victory. After the team escapes captivity, the Nazis torch the village of Mandrakos. Imagine what they will do to every village in Navarone now that the guns are destroyed.
**
destroyed. Finally, Butcher Brown suffers Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after his combat in the Spanish Civil War.



* Hunter and Ramsey discuss the theories and philosophy of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Clausewitz Von Clausewitz]] over dinner in ''CrimsonTide''. Hunter comes to the conclusion not that War is Hell, but that War is ''Doom''.

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* Hunter and Ramsey discuss the theories and philosophy of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Clausewitz Von Clausewitz]] over dinner in ''CrimsonTide''. Hunter comes to the conclusion not that War is Hell, but that War is ''Doom''. [[hottip:*:He must have been keeping these opinions to himself up until now: the U.S Navy isn't that keen on pacifist officers.]] Still, the psychological toll on the crew of the immanence of nuclear launch (and the ramifications thereof), of damage taken, and the known presence [[NothingIsScarier but unknown location]] of enemy attack submarines is clearly portrayed.



** Still, the psychological toll on the crew of the immanence of nuclear launch (and the ramifications thereof), of damage taken, and the known presence [[NothingIsScarier but unknown location]] of enemy attack submarines is clearly portrayed.



* Don't forget the {{Trope Codifier}} itself, ''TheRedBadgeOfCourage'', commonly (and mistakenly) identified as the {{Trope Maker}}.

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* Don't forget the The {{Trope Codifier}} itself, ''TheRedBadgeOfCourage'', commonly (and mistakenly) identified as ''TheRedBadgeOfCourage'' [[hottip:*:Not the {{Trope Maker}}.Maker}}]].



* RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms while has it epic war moments, was ultimately a tale of tragedy as three kingdoms vied for the control of China and how ultimately none were victorious. In terms of the fates of the characters, Shu fell as WideEyedIdealist Liu Bei soon become jaded as he learns virtue is not enough to bring the people together. For Wu, the Sun dynasty's fall heralds in a new tyrant whom was so hated that the people did not resist and for Wei, Cao Pi realized that ambition worked both ways

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* RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms ''RomanceOfTheThreeKingdoms'' while has it epic war moments, was ultimately a tale of tragedy as three kingdoms vied for the control of China and how ultimately none were victorious. In terms of the fates of the characters, Shu fell as WideEyedIdealist Liu Bei soon become jaded as he learns virtue is not enough to bring the people together. For Wu, the Sun dynasty's fall heralds in a new tyrant whom was so hated that the people did not resist and for Wei, Cao Pi realized that ambition worked both ways



** Its SpiritualSuccessor, ''ThePacific'', is [[ItGotWorse worse]]. Made brutally clear by Eugune Sledge's father, who tries one last attempt to persuade his son from enlisting:

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** Its SpiritualSuccessor, ''ThePacific'', * ''ThePacific'' [[hottip:*:SpiritualSuccessor to ''BandOfBrothers'']], is [[ItGotWorse worse]]. Made brutally clear by Eugune Sledge's father, who tries one last attempt to persuade his son from enlisting:



* ''{{MASH}}'' portrayed generals as bloodthirsty buffoons and emphasised the enemy soldiers' humanity. The military medical setting is ideal for exploring what modern weapons do to human bodies. The doctors themselves are not at home providing medical care, they are overseas working themselves into the ground patching up an endless line of casualties. The doctors at times serve as mouthpieces for the author's and actor's anti-war views.
** Hawkeye: "War isn't hell, war is war and hell is hell, and of the two, war is worse." "Why is that?" "...In Hell there are no innocent bystanders."
*** Tell that to Persephone.
** For instance, when a military bomber pilot comes to the camp after being shot down, he brags at [[WarIsGlorious the great time he's having for his term of service]]. Hawkeye, disgusted at this attitude, invites him to help out during a rush of wounded, which included civilians wounded in a bombing. The pilot is profoundly shaken at the end of the session and Hawkeye apologizes for putting him through that, but there was no damn way he was going to let him return to his duties without learning the consequences of war.
* ''{{Blackadder}} Goes Forth'', otherwise a tongue-in-cheek comedy set in the trenches of [=WWI=], dives into pointedly chilling satire at the end, and [[spoiler: ends with [[BolivianArmyEnding the implied death of the entire main cast.]]]]
* The Last Great Time War is said to be this in ''{{Doctor Who}}''. In keeping with the show's stance on all violence being bad, it turned the Time Lords into bad guys, forcing the Doctor to kill them all.

to:

* ''{{MASH}}'' portrayed generals as bloodthirsty buffoons and emphasised the enemy soldiers' humanity. The military medical setting is ideal for exploring what modern weapons do to human bodies. The doctors themselves are not at home providing medical care, they are overseas working themselves into the ground patching up an endless line of casualties. The doctors at times serve as mouthpieces for the author's and actor's anti-war views.
**
views. Hawkeye: "War isn't hell, war is war and hell is hell, and of the two, war is worse." "Why is that?" "...In Hell there are no innocent bystanders."
*** Tell that to Persephone.
**
" [[hottip:*:Baring Persephone, naturally.]] For instance, when a military bomber pilot comes to the camp after being shot down, he brags at [[WarIsGlorious the great time he's having for his term of service]]. Hawkeye, disgusted at this attitude, invites him to help out during a rush of wounded, which included civilians wounded in a bombing. The pilot is profoundly shaken at the end of the session and Hawkeye apologizes for putting him through that, but there was no damn way he was going to let him return to his duties without learning the consequences of war.
* ''{{Blackadder}} ''[[{{Blackadder}} Blackadder Goes Forth'', Forth]]'', otherwise a tongue-in-cheek comedy set in the trenches of [=WWI=], dives into pointedly chilling satire at the end, and [[spoiler: ends with [[BolivianArmyEnding the implied death of the entire main cast.]]]]
* The ''The Last Great Time War War'' is said to be this in ''{{Doctor Who}}''. In keeping with the show's stance on all violence being bad, it turned the Time Lords into bad guys, forcing the Doctor to kill them all.



* "One" by {{Metallica}}
** Also "Disposable Heroes", "For Whom The Bell Tolls", and arguably "Hero of the Day". They're pretty big on this theme.
* IronMaiden's "2 Minutes to Midnight"

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* "One" ''One'' by {{Metallica}}
**
{{Metallica}} Also "Disposable Heroes", "For ''Disposable Heroes'', ''For Whom The Bell Tolls", Tolls'', and arguably "Hero ''Hero of the Day".Day''. They're pretty big on this theme.
* IronMaiden's "2 ''2 Minutes to Midnight"Midnight''



* BlackSabbath's "War Pigs" and especially [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel "Electric Funeral"]].

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* BlackSabbath's "War Pigs" ''War Pigs'' and especially [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel "Electric Funeral"]].''[[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Electric Funeral]]''.



* LArcEnCiel's "Hoshizora" is about both the aftermath of either the Tokyo firebombings or Hiroshima and dedicated to the children of Iraq. ''Flickering hot air is the remains of a dream, a town that fears the darkness goes to sleep
A small happiness above the rubble, I was born here, I who watches the stars
NOBODY KNOWS. NOBODY CARES.
I HAVE LOST EVERYTHING TO BOMBS''
* "Some Mother's Son" by TheKinks
* What's the Price of a Mile? by Sabbaton. The bitter stupid bloody battles of WW1.
* Muse's "A Soldier's Poem".

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* LArcEnCiel's L'Arc-en-Ciel's "Hoshizora" is about both the aftermath of either the Tokyo firebombings or Hiroshima and dedicated to the children of Iraq. Iraq.
--->
''Flickering hot air is the remains of a dream, dream,\\
a town that fears the darkness goes to sleep
sleep\\
A small happiness above the rubble, I was born here, here,\\
I who watches the stars
NOBODY KNOWS. NOBODY CARES.
stars. nobody knows. nobody cares.\\
I HAVE LOST EVERYTHING TO BOMBS''
have lost everything to bombs.''
* "Some ''Some Mother's Son" Son'' by TheKinks
* What's ''What's the Price of a Mile? Mile?'' by Sabbaton. The bitter stupid bloody battles of WW1.
* Muse's "A ''A Soldier's Poem".Poem''.



* 'I Was Only Nineteen (A Walk in the Light Green)' by Redgum, which detailst the various horrors faced by the ANZAC troops in Vietnam.

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* 'I ''I Was Only Nineteen (A Walk in the Light Green)' Green)'' by Redgum, which detailst details the various horrors faced by the ANZAC troops in Vietnam.



* The KaizersOrchestra song "170", about a volunteer soldier (given the number "170" and never referred to by name) who leaves behind his pregnant wife to fight in a war. He ends up dying after his CO sends him over the top first to check if all is clear.

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* The KaizersOrchestra song "170", ''170'', about a volunteer soldier (given the number "170" and never referred to by name) who leaves behind his pregnant wife to fight in a war. He ends up dying after his CO sends him over the top first to check if all is clear.



** [[strike: Why yes, ''Fallout'' is the BizarroUniverse to ''Metal Gear.'']]



* LostOdyssey, when an [[{{Immortality}} immortal type I]] guy has lived for 1000 years just to see mortal people killing each other in war, you can really feel how much it makes him want to be freed from it. [[spoiler: Yet he can't.]]
* The BrothersInArms series started with a fairly strong anti-war message and has been gaining in intensity since then. Hell's Highway is particularly noteworthy for not only killing off or maiming established characters, but for depicting [[ThereAreNoTherapists PTSD]] (sometimes in shit-your-pants-frightening ways.)

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* LostOdyssey, ''LostOdyssey'', when an [[{{Immortality}} immortal type I]] guy has lived for 1000 years just to see mortal people killing each other in war, you can really feel how much it makes him want to be freed from it. [[spoiler: Yet he can't.]]
* The BrothersInArms ''BrothersInArms'' series started with a fairly strong anti-war message and has been gaining in intensity since then. Hell's Highway is particularly noteworthy for not only killing off or maiming established characters, but for depicting [[ThereAreNoTherapists PTSD]] (sometimes in shit-your-pants-frightening ways.)



** And then in the sequel Pantheocide, we get "treated" to [[spoiler: the angelic army being hit with a nuclear initiation]]. The description of the results is chilling.

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** And then in * In the sequel Pantheocide, to ''The Salvation War'', ''Pantheocide'', we get "treated" to [[spoiler: the angelic army being hit with a nuclear initiation]].initiation. The description of the results is chilling. ]]
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* ''Johnny Got His Gun''. About a soldier who has lost all his limbs, his sight and gone deaf. He learns to communicate by moving ever so slightly, and repeatedly asks to be killed.

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* ''Johnny Got His Gun''.''JohnnyGotHisGun''. About a soldier who has lost all his limbs, his sight and gone deaf. He learns to communicate by moving ever so slightly, and repeatedly asks to be killed.
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* ''Dulce et Decorum Est'' by Wilfred Owen.

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* Wilfred Owen's poems. The most famous example is probably ''Dulce et Decorum Est'' by Wilfred Owen.Est''.
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that's just the first half


** ''FullMetalJacket'': a depiction of dehumanising military training.

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** ''FullMetalJacket'': a most famous for depiction of dehumanising military training.
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* ''FutureWar198X'' shows the effects of WorldWarIII on the soldiers, civilians, and the powers behind each country fighting, shattering Japan's NuclearWeaponsTaboo and getting SpaceBattleshipYamato's director's message across loud and clear: [[{{Anvilicious}} nuclear weapons and war are bad.]]
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Move extra quote to the quotes page.


->''Make no mistake. War is coming. [[WarIsGlorious With all its glory.]] [[WarIsHell And with all its horror.]]''
--> -- '''[[StarcraftII Arcturus Mengsk]]'''
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And finally, the societies that promoted war were also {{Crapsack World}}s, life was short and unpleasant. Illness such as a fever could kill you, food and water was rarely enough to feed everyone and losing a limb mean losing that precious scrap of food on the table since there was no such thing as veteran support. War at least lets you die knowing you did something meaningful.

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And finally, the societies that promoted war were also {{Crapsack World}}s, life was short and unpleasant. Illness such as a fever could kill you, food and water was rarely enough to feed everyone and losing a limb mean meant losing that precious scrap of food on the table since there was no such thing as veteran support. War at least lets you die knowing you did something meaningful.
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** Which his partner, one of the native Wachatis, [[CrowningMomentOfFunny translates as "I want to fight you...so go to hell!"]]

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** Which his partner, one of the native Wachatis, translates as [[CrowningMomentOfFunny translates as "I want to fight you...so go to hell!"]]
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** Which his partner, one of the native Wachatis, [[CrowningMomentOfFunny translates as "I want to fight you...so go to hell!"]]
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* ''AvatarTheLastAirbender'' explores the prolonged effects of Imperialism, foreign occupation, and even genocide as much as it can while still being viewable for children. One episode has the commander of an Earth Kingdom fortress show our heroes an infirmary, and then mentions that those soldiers are the lucky ones, because they came ''back''. Everybody has their lives affected by the war: the main character is the last of his kind because every single one of his people were massacred a hundred years earlier, and two of his companions lost their mother to a raid. They also meet many people whose villages were burned to the ground, with most of them losing their families in the process. One even blows up a dam to try and clear out Fire Nation soldiers, knowing that the flood will kill innocent civilians as well. They even meet a woman who was taken from her village simply because she was a waterbender, who then spent years learning how to manipulate the blood in people's bodies and now [[HeWhoFightsMonsters blindly seeks revenge]]. It hammers home the message of how deeply, deeply ''wrong'' it is to invade another country without cause, which hits a little close to home in today's world.

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* ''AvatarTheLastAirbender'' explores the prolonged effects of Imperialism, foreign occupation, and even genocide as much as it can while still being viewable for children. One episode has the commander of an Earth Kingdom fortress show our heroes an infirmary, and then mentions that those soldiers are the lucky ones, because they came ''back''. Everybody has their lives affected by the war: the main character is the last of his kind because every single one of his people were massacred a hundred years earlier, and two of his companions lost their mother to a raid. They also meet many people whose villages were burned to the ground, with most of them losing their families in the process. One even blows up a dam to try and clear out Fire Nation soldiers, knowing that the flood will kill innocent civilians as well. They even meet a woman who was taken from her village simply because she was a waterbender, who then spent years learning how to manipulate the blood in people's bodies and now [[HeWhoFightsMonsters blindly seeks revenge]]. And this is before we get to ''The Tale of Iroh'' in the "Tales of Ba Singh Se" episode, which shows the quiet but powerful sadness of a father losing his son to the war. It hammers home the message of how deeply, deeply ''wrong'' it is to invade another country without cause, which hits a little close to home in today's world.
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Third, modern combat is more dehumanizing than ancient combat. If you were strong and skilled with weapons, you felt like you were in control of your destiny. Furthermore, war often took the form of raiding and rustling and might have actually been fun; Exceptions include those who were [[MadeASlave conquered]] and thus couldn't write poems. Modern combat, with artillery and [=IEDs=], means that death can strike without warning or defense. WWI machine guns meant that you could die without ever seeing the enemy, thus rendering your skill level practically moot.

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Third, modern combat is more dehumanizing than ancient combat. If you were strong and skilled with weapons, you felt like you were in control of your destiny. Furthermore, war often took the form of raiding and rustling and might have actually been fun; Exceptions include those who were [[MadeASlave conquered]] and thus [[WrittenByTheWinners couldn't write poems.poems]]. Modern combat, with artillery and [=IEDs=], means that death can strike without warning or defense. WWI machine guns meant that you could die without ever seeing the enemy, thus rendering your skill level practically moot.
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Historically, this trope might be NewerThanTheyThink: there is a long tradition of glorifying war: bravery, discipline, manliness and the right of the [[ValuesDissonance strong to take from the weak]]. As photographs and film from the front became more and more common, this trope became more and more mainstream. TruthInTelevision, though fiction may exaggerate, and the degree to which this is true will vary from war to war, country to country, and even soldier to soldier. WarIsHell might originate from WW I; many poets and authors experienced the frontlines for themselves. The [[AdolfHitler identity]] of the most prominent writer who ''did'' enjoy his WW I service might also have helped this trope.

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Historically, this trope might be NewerThanTheyThink: there is a long tradition of glorifying war: bravery, discipline, manliness and the right of the [[ValuesDissonance right of the strong to take from the weak]]. As photographs and film from the front became more and more common, this trope became more and more mainstream. TruthInTelevision, though fiction may exaggerate, and the degree to which this is true will vary from war to war, country to country, and even soldier to soldier. soldier.
As a theme,
WarIsHell might originate from WW I; many started to pop up in a significant way in the United States, where the AmericanCivilWar, the first true industrial war, chewed through the American population and much of the countryside. However, since the reasons for that war were obvious to everyone fighting (even if people on the same side disagreed about which were important/worthy), the trope only really caught on with WorldWarI, which was long, bloody, and seemingly pointless. Thanks to near-universal conscription in all the major countries of Europe, a large number of writers and poets of the early 20th century had experience on the front lines, and authors experienced the frontlines for themselves. they did not like what they saw. The [[AdolfHitler identity]] of the most prominent writer only recorded World War I soldier who ''did'' enjoy his WW I service might also have helped this trope.
wartime experience probably entrenched the trope in Western culture ever afterward; as a result, even works (serious ones, not ones that were mere [[PatrioticFervor propaganda pieces]]) about "[[WorldWarII the Good War]]" couldn't go without at least acknowledging the nastiness integral to war.
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* Patrick Ness' ''Chaos Walking'' trilogy seems to be going this way, although the theme seems to be more 'war can be necessary evil' than 'war is always bad'. Current themes explored in the series so far include slavery, and later genocide, a CompleteMonster of a dictator and how he manipulates the population into not fighting against him (this includes full-out brainwashing), GreyAndGreyMorality with the resistance [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans overstepping the mark to achieve their end]] almost as much as the Dictator does, torture of prisoners, the nature of terrorism, religious fundamentalism, and discrimination resulting in dehumanisation. There is also an AuthorTract dropped against the idea that a real man is capable of murder. Yeah, it's a pretty heavy series. And all set within a small human colony in space, too.

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* Patrick Ness' ''Chaos Walking'' trilogy seems to be going this way, although the theme seems to be more 'war can be necessary evil' than 'war is always bad'. Current themes explored in the series so far include slavery, and later genocide, a CompleteMonster of a dictator and how he manipulates the population into not fighting against him (this includes full-out brainwashing), GreyAndGreyMorality with the resistance [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans overstepping the mark to achieve their end]] almost as much as the Dictator does, torture of prisoners, the nature of terrorism, religious fundamentalism, and discrimination resulting in dehumanisation. There is also an AuthorTract dropped against the idea that a real man is capable of murder. Yeah, it's a pretty heavy series. And all set within a small human colony in space, too. too.
* In the late days of [[{{Bolo}} Case/Operation Ragnarok]], even the eponymous KnightInShiningArmor sapient supertanks are falling to bloodlust and slaughtering the enemy's civilians. When the sole survivor Shiva reawakens, he is horrified by the atrocities that he himself had not been above committing under the pretense of [[PunchClockVillain following orders]].
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** ''ApocalypseNow'' is a well-noted for using WarIsHell surrealism as Willard's transformative experience into insanity, for his [[ThroughTheEyesOfMadness final confrontation]] with Kurtz. Kurtz whispering "The horror ... the horror..." while dying remains one of the classic images of anti-war cinema. Interestingly enough ''ApocalypseNow'' also turns up in WarIsGlorious.

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** ''ApocalypseNow'' is a well-noted for using WarIsHell surrealism as Willard's transformative experience into insanity, for his the engine that transforms Willard and sets up the [[ThroughTheEyesOfMadness final confrontation]] with Kurtz.and the ''HeartOfDarkness'' revelation. Kurtz whispering "The horror ... the horror..." while dying remains one of the is now [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic a classic images image]] of anti-war cinema. Interestingly enough ''ApocalypseNow'' also turns up in WarIsGlorious.

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** ''ApocalypseNow'' is a famous depiction of the horrors of war. It is one of the best works for conveying the ''madness'', the unhinging of the world and the minds of men. Kurtz whispering "The horror ... the horror..." while dying is one of the classic images of anti-war cinema. Interestingly enough ''ApocalypseNow'' also turns up in WarIsGlorious.
*** ''{{YMMV}}''; can be straight up ''{{Glurge}}'', given how over the top much of the content is. It's rather hard to take anything seriously after Colonel Kilgore's CrowningMusicOfAwesome and [[CrowningMomentOfFunny apology over the lousy surfing conditions.]] Try too hard, and and the ''{{Anvilicious}}'' message can drown in BlackComedy.

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** ''ApocalypseNow'' is a famous depiction of the horrors of war. It is one of the best works well-noted for conveying the ''madness'', the unhinging of the world and the minds of men.using WarIsHell surrealism as Willard's transformative experience into insanity, for his [[ThroughTheEyesOfMadness final confrontation]] with Kurtz. Kurtz whispering "The horror ... the horror..." while dying is remains one of the classic images of anti-war cinema. Interestingly enough ''ApocalypseNow'' also turns up in WarIsGlorious.
*** ''{{YMMV}}''; can be straight up ''{{Glurge}}'', given how over the top much of the content is. It's rather hard to take anything seriously after Colonel Kilgore's CrowningMusicOfAwesome and [[CrowningMomentOfFunny apology over the lousy surfing conditions.]] Try too hard, and and the ''{{Anvilicious}}'' message can drown in BlackComedy.
WarIsGlorious.
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* Hunter and Ramsey discuss the theories and philosophy of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Clausewitz Von Clausewitz]] over dinner in ''CrimsonTide''. Hunter comes to the conclusion that ''war is doom''.

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* Hunter and Ramsey discuss the theories and philosophy of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Clausewitz Von Clausewitz]] over dinner in ''CrimsonTide''. Hunter comes to the conclusion not that ''war War is doom''.Hell, but that War is ''Doom''.



** Also the psychological toll on the crew of the immanence of nuclear launch (and the ramifications thereof), of damages, and the known presence of enemy attack submarines is clearly portrayed.

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** Also Still, the psychological toll on the crew of the immanence of nuclear launch (and the ramifications thereof), of damages, damage taken, and the known presence [[NothingIsScarier but unknown location]] of enemy attack submarines is clearly portrayed.

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* The Russian move ''Come and See'' is about a little boy turned partisan during WorldWarTwo. It ends in insanity and shows incredible cruelty on both sides.

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* The Russian move film ''Come and See'' is about a little boy turned partisan during WorldWarTwo. It ends in insanity and shows incredible cruelty on both sides.



* Hunter provides this viewpoint in ''CrimsonTide''. "In my humble opinion, in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."

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* Hunter provides this viewpoint and Ramsey discuss the theories and philosophy of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Clausewitz Von Clausewitz]] over dinner in ''CrimsonTide''. "In Hunter comes to the conclusion that ''war is doom''.
-->'''Hunter:''' ''In
my humble opinion, in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."''
** Also the psychological toll on the crew of the immanence of nuclear launch (and the ramifications thereof), of damages, and the known presence of enemy attack submarines is clearly portrayed.
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** Hawkeye: "War isn't hell, war is war and hell is hell, and of the two, war is worse." "Why is that?" "...In Hell there are no innocent bystanders."
*** Tell that to Persephone.
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** And then in the sequel Pantheocide, we get "treated" to [[spoiler: the angelic army being hit with a nuclear initiation]]. The description of the results is chilling.
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* Warhammer40000Trouble brought it to the RefugeInAudacity level with random nuclear strike killed people 8 times larger than the AlienInvasion themselves, only reason that keep LaResistance still able to fight is because of PowerOfTrust, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity the rest is insane]] or [[DyingLikeAnimals die]]

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* Warhammer40000Trouble ''Warhammer40000Trouble'' brought it to the RefugeInAudacity level with random nuclear strike killed people 8 times larger than the AlienInvasion themselves, only reason that keep LaResistance still able to fight is because of PowerOfTrust, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity the rest is insane]] or [[DyingLikeAnimals die]]
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* Warhammer40000Trouble brought it to the RefugeInAudacity level with random nuclear strike killed people 8 times larger than the AlienInvasion themselves, only reason that keep LaResistance sane and survive is PowerOfHope, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity the rest is bleak]]

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* Warhammer40000Trouble brought it to the RefugeInAudacity level with random nuclear strike killed people 8 times larger than the AlienInvasion themselves, only reason that keep LaResistance sane and survive still able to fight is PowerOfHope, because of PowerOfTrust, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity the rest is bleak]]insane]] or [[DyingLikeAnimals die]]
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* Warhammer40000Trouble brought it to the RefugeInAudacity level with random nuclear strike killed people 8 times larger than the AlienInvasion themselves, only reason that keep LaResistance sane and survive is PowerOfHope, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity the rest is bleak]]

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->''"It is well that war is so terrible, [[WarIsGlorious otherwise we would grow too fond of it]]."''

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->''"It is well that war is so terrible, [[HarsherInHindsight otherwise we would]] [[WarIsGlorious otherwise we would grow too fond of it]]."''



Historically, this trope might be NewerThanTheyThink: there is a long tradition of glorifying war: bravery, discipline, manliness and the right of the strong to take from the weak. As photographs and film from the front became more and more common, this trope became more and more mainstream. TruthInTelevision, though fiction may exaggerate, and the degree to which this is true will vary from war to war, country to country, and even soldier to soldier. WarIsHell might originate from WW I; many poets and authors experienced the frontlines for themselves. The [[AdolfHitler identity]] of the most prominent writer who ''did'' enjoy his WW I service might also have helped this trope.

to:

Historically, this trope might be NewerThanTheyThink: there is a long tradition of glorifying war: bravery, discipline, manliness and the right of the [[ValuesDissonance strong to take from the weak.weak]]. As photographs and film from the front became more and more common, this trope became more and more mainstream. TruthInTelevision, though fiction may exaggerate, and the degree to which this is true will vary from war to war, country to country, and even soldier to soldier. WarIsHell might originate from WW I; many poets and authors experienced the frontlines for themselves. The [[AdolfHitler identity]] of the most prominent writer who ''did'' enjoy his WW I service might also have helped this trope.



Some past societies taught men (mostly) from birth that war and killing was their destiny, so they avoided this problem.

Second, being in constant fear for your life and limb is quite stressful. Again, some societies put forth that dying for the cause is the best thing you could ever do. In Norse mythology, those who died in combat went to Valhalla.

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Some past societies taught men (mostly) from birth that [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy war and killing was their destiny, destiny]], so they avoided this problem.

Second, being in constant fear for your life and limb is quite stressful. Again, some societies put forth that [[MartyrdomCulture dying for the cause cause]] is the best thing you could ever do. In Norse mythology, those who died in combat went to Valhalla.

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