History Main / UtopiaJustifiestheMeans

23rd Apr '17 7:10:42 PM nombretomado
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** This is a common theme in the ''Franchise/TalesSeries'' games. This pops up again in ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'', in which the BigBad seeks to kill everyone on the planet and replace them with clones in an attempt to ScrewDestiny. It makes sense in context. The whole world was living a predetermined existence, consulting a prophecy even for things such as what to eat for dinner.

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** This is a common theme in the ''Franchise/TalesSeries'' ''VideoGame/TalesSeries'' games. This pops up again in ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'', in which the BigBad seeks to kill everyone on the planet and replace them with clones in an attempt to ScrewDestiny. It makes sense in context. The whole world was living a predetermined existence, consulting a prophecy even for things such as what to eat for dinner.
9th Apr '17 10:57:56 AM BrainstormIsAnIdiot
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* In ''Fanfic/AGemInTheRough, the "Mr. 5 Pair" and Miss Goldenweek have joined Baroque Works in the hopes of forming a utopia of their own (as with the canon version of ''Manga/OnePiece''). However, their belief in creating a perfect military state is shaken due to their meeting WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse, who explains to them just why it is a terrible idea and sets them up for a FaceHeelTurn against Crocodile and their former organization.

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* In ''Fanfic/AGemInTheRough, ''Fanfic/AGemInTheRough,'' the "Mr. 5 Pair" and Miss Goldenweek have joined Baroque Works in the hopes of forming a utopia of their own (as with the canon version of ''Manga/OnePiece''). However, their belief in creating a perfect military state is shaken due to their meeting WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse, who explains to them just why it is a terrible idea and sets them up for a FaceHeelTurn against Crocodile and their former organization.
9th Apr '17 10:57:07 AM BrainstormIsAnIdiot
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''Fanfic/AGemInTheRough, the "Mr. 5 Pair" and Miss Goldenweek have joined Baroque Works in the hopes of forming a utopia of their own (as with the canon version of ''Manga/OnePiece''). However, their belief in creating a perfect military state is shaken due to their meeting WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse, who explains to them just why it is a terrible idea and sets them up for a FaceHeelTurn against Crocodile and their former organization.
-->'''Steven Universe''': "Why do you listen to him?! Is your utopia really going to matter if you got it through violence and death?! You are better than that!"
21st Feb '17 10:06:35 AM flodoris
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** [[spoiler:Zig-Zagging with [[AssimilationPlot "The Moon's Eye Plan"]] whose aim dive all people in eternal Genjutsu in order to reach peace in the world. [[BigBadDuumvirate Madara and Obito]] really want to bring peace to the world and thinks that their plan is the only way it can happen. But at the same time as they want bring peace they also doing it for their own purposes: Madara more concerned to implement the plan independently since thinks that only he is worthy to lead all in the infinite illusion. At the same time as Obito wants to create a world in which his TheLostLenore alive and his ideals of heroism is the norm.]]

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** [[spoiler:Zig-Zagging with [[AssimilationPlot "The Moon's Eye Plan"]] whose aim dive all people in eternal Genjutsu in order to reach peace in the world. [[BigBadDuumvirate Madara and Obito]] really want to bring peace to the world and [[WellIntentionedExtremist thinks that their plan is the only way it can happen. happen]]. But at the same time as they want bring peace they also doing it for their own purposes: Madara more concerned to implement the plan independently since thinks that '''[[ItsAllAboutMe only he he]]''' is worthy to lead all in the infinite illusion. At the same time as Obito wants to create a his ideal world in which where [[TheLostLenore Rin]] and the other his TheLostLenore teammates are alive and his ideals of heroism is the norm.]]so that [[IRejectYourReality he could escape from reality.]]]]
12th Jan '17 12:10:51 PM ZimFan89
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** EU novel Outbound flight expands that Palpatine had actually foreseen the Yuuzhan Vong, and his entire purpose for the powergrab and superweapon production was so that there'd be a united galaxy able to deal with them when they come.

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** EU novel Outbound flight ''Literature/OutboundFlight'' expands that Palpatine had actually foreseen the Yuuzhan Vong, and his entire purpose for the powergrab and superweapon production was so that there'd be a united galaxy able to deal with them when they come.
3rd Jan '17 5:53:21 PM Wyldchyld
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** Walhart from ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' mixes this with AndManGrewProud, where he sees a future where mankind would no longer believe in god. And even then, he's not exactly bad. Mainly thanks to the fact that [[BigBad Grima's forces]] can't do very much on him, and that [[IKnowYouKnowIKnow he's fully aware of what is happening.]] All rest is also thanks to being nothing more than {{Badass}} incarnate.

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** Walhart from ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' mixes this with AndManGrewProud, where he sees a future where mankind would no longer believe in god. And even then, he's not exactly bad. Mainly thanks to the fact that [[BigBad Grima's forces]] can't do very much on him, and that [[IKnowYouKnowIKnow he's fully aware of what is happening.]] All rest is also thanks to being nothing more than {{Badass}} badass incarnate.
18th Dec '16 11:51:39 PM Tron80
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[[folder:Fanfiction]]

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[[folder:Fanfiction]][[folder:Fan Works]]
18th Dec '16 11:47:55 PM Tron80
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* ''ComicBook/TransformersIDW:'' The Decepticons' original motive was to overthrow the corrupt Senate and the even worse Functionist Council, then remake Cybertron into a "shining utopia". By the modern day, they've suffered a major case of MotiveDecay, and these goals have been forgotten completely.
* ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': Tarn, leader of the Decepticon Justice Division, believes in this whole-heartedly. Until the war is over, every Decepticon must do what is expected of them, and any who defy Megatron's will, or even just get captured, must be found, beaten, tortured and (eventually) violently killed, and so long as that terrifies even ''one'' Decepticon into line with Megatron's promised utopia, it's worth it. As the series goes on, it becomes increasingly clear Tarn's just using this as justification for his acts.

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* ''ComicBook/TransformersIDW:'' Franchise/{{Superman}}'s -and sometimes Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'s- enemy Mongul thinks a good ruler must govern with an iron hand to keep peace and prosperity, even if he is called a tyrant by short-sighted fools. He expounds on it in ''Comicbook/WarWorld'' story arc.
* Franchise/{{Transformers}}:
** ''ComicBook/TheTransformersIDW'':
The Decepticons' original motive was to overthrow the corrupt Senate and the even worse Functionist Council, then remake Cybertron into a "shining utopia". By the modern day, they've suffered a major case of MotiveDecay, and these goals have been forgotten completely.
* ** ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': Tarn, leader of the Decepticon Justice Division, believes in this whole-heartedly. Until the war is over, every Decepticon must do what is expected of them, and any who defy Megatron's will, or even just get captured, must be found, beaten, tortured and (eventually) violently killed, and so long as that terrifies even ''one'' Decepticon into line with Megatron's promised utopia, it's worth it. As the series goes on, it becomes increasingly clear Tarn's just using this as justification for his acts.
7th Dec '16 12:17:58 PM Morgenthaler
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* The city of Ba Sing Se in ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'', when at last it is reached, is a stronghold that has withstood the Fire Nation for one hundred years, a haven for thousands of refugees. However, the price for this is the censorship, even from the king, that there ''is'' a war that has been waging for the past 100 years and that the Earth Kingdom is losing. Also, [[CassandraTruth anyone who insists that there is a war]] is promptly and quietly kidnapped, brainwashed, and enslaved by the [[PropagandaMachine Dai]] [[SecretPolice Li]].

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* ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'':
**
The city of Ba Sing Se in ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'', Se, when at last it is reached, is a stronghold that has withstood the Fire Nation for one hundred years, a haven for thousands of refugees. However, the price for this is the censorship, even from the king, that there ''is'' a war that has been waging for the past 100 years and that the Earth Kingdom is losing. Also, [[CassandraTruth anyone who insists that there is a war]] is promptly and quietly kidnapped, brainwashed, and enslaved by the [[PropagandaMachine Dai]] [[SecretPolice Li]].



** Amon in ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'' believes that bending is a source of pain and misery in the world, and is abused to no end. Ridding the world of it would bring equality to the world and the human race. Not such a bad idea, except that his plans of firebombing arenas full of thousands of people and taking away bending against the will of the benders are more than a little sick.
*** Pretty much all of the ''Korra'' major antagonists onwards: Unalaq wanted a world where the boundaries between humans and spirits (and, according to one tidbit, between worldly nations as well) would be obliterated, Zaheer wanted an anarchist world where everyone would be free to do as they wished, and Kuvira wanted a peaceful, strong Earth Empire. Pity they tried to accomplish this via fusing with the GodOfEvil (which would lean more towards DystopiaJustifiesTheMeans), mass terrorism and murder and complete and utter totalitarianism, respectively.
* ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'''s AlternateUniverse equivalents, the Justice Lords, did this to their world, taking over and imposing a metahuman-run utopia/dystopia. Most of the ends seem well worth the means, especially [[spoiler:violating ComicBook/LexLuthor's JokerImmunity and lobotomizing {{omnicidal maniac}}s]], but the group quickly [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope leaped off the slippery slope]] by getting rid of the right to vote or speak freely while arresting individuals for threatening to not pay for food. On the other hand, their world has no rape, murder, arson, or even ''litter.'' Unusually, this is one of the more even-handed examples, with both "Utopia" and "the means to it" being shown in fair measure. Fans of the show were left to wonder if, in a world where every prison's a CardboardPrison, the Justice Lords might have had a point, and the Batmen even debate on it in the middle of the episode.[[note]]Notably, Good Guy Batman doesn't have a response when Bad Guy Batman points out that Thomas and Martha Wayne would still have been alive if the world was run this way back then. Later, Good Guy Batman sarcastically says that they would love living here, and prompts a HeelFaceTurn.[[/note]]
** An example of this is Gotham. Justice League Batman's version looks like it came out of a pulp noir story, and Arkham is a run-down creepy BedlamHouse. Justice Lord Batman's version looks identical to Metropolis, and Arkham looks like a perfectly normal psychiatric institution (if you excuse the fact that parts of it are staffed by lobotomized supervillains). And people are arrested for making a scene at a restaurant.
*** The very same episode also featured ''another'' version of this at the very beginning. Lex Luthor--who was the President at the time in the alternate universe--apparently did ''something'' that he justified with this belief. The episode never tells us what he specifically did, but whatever it was, apparently it backfired horribly and was about to start World War III before Superman [[spoiler: kills President Luthor]]. When Superman walks into the Oval Office he exposits "Even this wasn't enough for you, Lex. You had to have it all. Now we're on the brink of a war that could destroy the whole planet." Lex--who appears to still be in a state of shock about his mysterious plans backfiring--ignores Superman and babbles to himself "Could have been so perfect! Paradise!" Then the conversation spirals out of control, and the scenario described in the above two paragraphs comes into fruition.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'':
** Amon in ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'' believes that bending is a source of pain and misery in the world, and is abused to no end. Ridding the world of it would bring equality to the world and the human race. Not such a bad idea, except that his plans of firebombing arenas full of thousands of people and taking away bending against the will of the benders are more than a little sick.
*** ** Pretty much all of the ''Korra'' major antagonists onwards: Unalaq wanted a world where the boundaries between humans and spirits (and, according to one tidbit, between worldly nations as well) would be obliterated, Zaheer wanted an anarchist world where everyone would be free to do as they wished, and Kuvira wanted a peaceful, strong Earth Empire. Pity they tried to accomplish this via fusing with the GodOfEvil (which would lean more towards DystopiaJustifiesTheMeans), mass terrorism and murder and complete and utter totalitarianism, respectively.
* ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'''s ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'':
** The Justice League's
AlternateUniverse equivalents, the Justice Lords, did this to their world, taking over and imposing a metahuman-run utopia/dystopia. Most of the ends seem well worth the means, especially [[spoiler:violating ComicBook/LexLuthor's JokerImmunity and lobotomizing {{omnicidal maniac}}s]], but the group quickly [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope leaped off the slippery slope]] by getting rid of the right to vote or speak freely while arresting individuals for threatening to not pay for food. On the other hand, their world has no rape, murder, arson, or even ''litter.'' Unusually, this is one of the more even-handed examples, with both "Utopia" and "the means to it" being shown in fair measure. Fans of the show were left to wonder if, in a world where every prison's a CardboardPrison, the Justice Lords might have had a point, and the Batmen even debate on it in the middle of the episode.[[note]]Notably, Good Guy Batman doesn't have a response when Bad Guy Batman points out that Thomas and Martha Wayne would still have been alive if the world was run this way back then. Later, Good Guy Batman sarcastically says that they would love living here, and prompts a HeelFaceTurn.[[/note]]
** An example of this is Gotham. Justice League Batman's version looks like it came out of a pulp noir story, and Arkham is a run-down creepy BedlamHouse. Justice Lord Batman's version looks identical to Metropolis, and Arkham looks like a perfectly normal psychiatric institution (if you excuse the fact that parts of it are staffed by lobotomized supervillains). And people are arrested for making a scene at a restaurant.
***
The very same episode also featured ''another'' version of this at the very beginning. Lex Luthor--who was the President at the time in the alternate universe--apparently did ''something'' that he justified with this belief. The episode never tells us what he specifically did, but whatever it was, apparently it backfired horribly and was about to start World War III before Superman [[spoiler: kills President Luthor]]. When Superman walks into the Oval Office he exposits "Even this wasn't enough for you, Lex. You had to have it all. Now we're on the brink of a war that could destroy the whole planet." Lex--who appears to still be in a state of shock about his mysterious plans backfiring--ignores Superman and babbles to himself "Could have been so perfect! Paradise!" Then the conversation spirals out of control, and the scenario described in the above two paragraphs comes into fruition.
1st Dec '16 6:43:20 AM Scorntex
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* ''ComicBook/TransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': Tarn, leader of the Decepticon Justice Division, believes in this whole-heartedly. Until the war is over, every Decepticon must do what is expected of them, and any who defy Megatron's will, or even just get captured, must be found, beaten, tortured and (eventually) violently killed, and so long as that terrifies even ''one'' Decepticon into line with Megatron's promised utopia, it's worth it.

to:

* ''ComicBook/TransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': ''ComicBook/TransformersIDW:'' The Decepticons' original motive was to overthrow the corrupt Senate and the even worse Functionist Council, then remake Cybertron into a "shining utopia". By the modern day, they've suffered a major case of MotiveDecay, and these goals have been forgotten completely.
* ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'':
Tarn, leader of the Decepticon Justice Division, believes in this whole-heartedly. Until the war is over, every Decepticon must do what is expected of them, and any who defy Megatron's will, or even just get captured, must be found, beaten, tortured and (eventually) violently killed, and so long as that terrifies even ''one'' Decepticon into line with Megatron's promised utopia, it's worth it. As the series goes on, it becomes increasingly clear Tarn's just using this as justification for his acts.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.UtopiaJustifiestheMeans