History Main / UtopiaJustifiestheMeans

17th Nov '17 11:18:08 AM nmn3r3
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Walhart from ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' mixes this with AndManGrewProud, where he sees a future where mankind would no longer believe in god. And even then, he's not exactly bad. Mainly thanks to the fact that [[BigBad Grima's forces]] can't do very much on him, and that [[IKnowYouKnowIKnow he's fully aware of what is happening.]] All rest is also thanks to being nothing more than badass incarnate.

to:

** Walhart from ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' mixes this with AndManGrewProud, where he sees a future where mankind would no longer believe in god. And even then, he's not exactly bad.bad, if you ignore the part where he [[MightMakesRight tramples over anyone who disagrees with him]], as well as considering ''himself'' to be a god. Mainly thanks to the fact that [[BigBad Grima's forces]] can't do very much on him, and that [[IKnowYouKnowIKnow he's fully aware of what is happening.]] All rest is also thanks to being nothing more than badass incarnate.
17th Oct '17 6:24:29 AM Trogdor7620
Is there an issue? Send a Message


—>'''[[spoiler:Cortana]]''' …AIs can be immortal. That kind of lifespan allows for long-term planning just like the Forerunners were capable of. AIs can assume the Forerunners' Mantle of Responsibility. And once there is peace, we can focus on poverty, hunger, illness... But [[TheDragon Warden]] believes some will resist our help. And he's afraid you're one of them.\\

to:

—>'''[[spoiler:Cortana]]''' -->'''[[spoiler:Cortana]]''' …AIs can be immortal. That kind of lifespan allows for long-term planning just like the Forerunners were capable of. AIs can assume the Forerunners' Mantle of Responsibility. And once there is peace, we can focus on poverty, hunger, illness... But [[TheDragon Warden]] believes some will resist our help. And he's afraid you're one of them.\\
17th Oct '17 6:22:02 AM Trogdor7620
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** ''VideoGame/Halo5Guardians'' has [[spoiler:[[FaceHeelTurn an insane]] [[AIIsACrapshoot Cortana]]]] forming the Created faction to assume the Mantle of Responsibility, summoning gigantic Forerunner ships designed to police entire star systems, and force peace upon the galaxy. Anyone tries to get uppity, the Guardians decimate them.
—>'''[[spoiler:Cortana]]''' …AIs can be immortal. That kind of lifespan allows for long-term planning just like the Forerunners were capable of. AIs can assume the Forerunners' Mantle of Responsibility. And once there is peace, we can focus on poverty, hunger, illness... But [[TheDragon Warden]] believes some will resist our help. And he's afraid you're one of them.\\
'''Fred:''' Sounds great. I don't get why anyone's expecting resistance.\\
'''John:''' The Didact made it clear the Mantle of Responsibility was an imperial peace. Step out of line, and suffer.\\
'''[[spoiler:Cortana:]]''' [[BlatantLies It won't be like that, John.]]
28th Sep '17 12:39:02 AM PaulA
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Played completely straight in ''The Spellsong Cycle'' by L.E. Modesitt Jr. The main character, who's canonically NeutralGood, accumulates a five-digit body count by the end of the first book, because she's determined to fix the CrapsackWorld she's [[TrappedInAnotherWorld trapped in]]. Interestingly, she isn't aiming for utopia proper--she's trying to recreate the American democratic system, which is utopian compared to the society she's dealing with.

to:

* Played completely straight in In ''The Spellsong Cycle'' by L.E. Modesitt Jr. The Creator/LEModesittJr, the main character, who's canonically NeutralGood, accumulates a five-digit body count by the end of the first book, because she's determined to fix the CrapsackWorld she's [[TrappedInAnotherWorld trapped in]]. Interestingly, she isn't aiming for utopia proper--she's trying to recreate the American democratic system, which is utopian compared to the society she's dealing with.
22nd Sep '17 4:32:19 AM Silverblade2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The MythArc of Joe Kelly's ''SelfDemonstrating/{{Deadpool}}'' run involved the main character -- a ScrewySquirrel AntiHero -- finding out that he was the "Mithras", prophesised to protect a being called "[[MessianicArchetype The Messiah]]", who would bring peace and prosperity to the world, from "Tiamat", who would destroy it. However, when said Messiah showed up, it turned out to be a being that froze everyone in the world in blissful mindlessness. Deadpool had to decide whether or not to fulfill his destiny and prevent all suffering at the price of free will. In the end, he decided to ScrewDestiny and destroy the Messiah himself.

to:

* The MythArc of Joe Kelly's ''SelfDemonstrating/{{Deadpool}}'' ''ComicBook/{{Deadpool}}'' run involved the main character -- a ScrewySquirrel AntiHero -- finding out that he was the "Mithras", prophesised to protect a being called "[[MessianicArchetype The Messiah]]", who would bring peace and prosperity to the world, from "Tiamat", who would destroy it. However, when said Messiah showed up, it turned out to be a being that froze everyone in the world in blissful mindlessness. Deadpool had to decide whether or not to fulfill his destiny and prevent all suffering at the price of free will. In the end, he decided to ScrewDestiny and destroy the Messiah himself.



* A prime candidate for this trope: SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} from the ''ComicBook/XMen'' comics, [[WesternAnimation/XMen animated series]], and [[Film/XMen movies]], who is sometimes willing to kill all "normals" to create a utopia for the mutants.

to:

* A prime candidate for this trope: SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} ComicBook/{{Magneto}} from the ''ComicBook/XMen'' comics, [[WesternAnimation/XMen animated series]], and [[Film/XMen movies]], who is sometimes willing to kill all "normals" to create a utopia for the mutants.



* Darryl Revok of ''Film/{{Scanners}}'' thinks that a scanner-run government would be the coolest thing ever. Played with in that he has no illusions that it would be anything but a supremacist society where the "utopia" is only for the powerful psychics and that all normal humans would be reduced to slaves. Reportedly, some of the characterization for SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} was based on this.

to:

* Darryl Revok of ''Film/{{Scanners}}'' thinks that a scanner-run government would be the coolest thing ever. Played with in that he has no illusions that it would be anything but a supremacist society where the "utopia" is only for the powerful psychics and that all normal humans would be reduced to slaves. Reportedly, some of the characterization for SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} ComicBook/{{Magneto}} was based on this.
17th Sep '17 9:41:10 PM TheDeadSkin
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Darth Revan in ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' -- it's revealed in the second game that Revan became a Sith Lord at least partly for the best interests of justice and order in the galaxy. Then again, this seems to be a common self-justification and/or recruiting gimmick among Sith Lords. Revan is simply one of the very few who actually ''tried''.
** Actually, Kreia mentions in the sequel that Revan [[spoiler:was attempting to unify and solidify the galaxy to prepare for a colossal war with an extra-galactic, outside the Force threat, which just reeks powerfully of [[Literature/NewJediOrder the Yuuzhan Vong]].]]
** Later clarified in ''VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic'', that [[spoiler: the threat Revan was trying to unite the galaxy against was the ''True'' Sith Empire, who had been biding their time and consolidating their power in the Unknown Regions. The Emperor leading them is so evil and powerful, everything Revan was doing was actually very, ''very'' [[TheExtremistWasRight justified]]]].

to:

* ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'': According to the sequel, [[AntiVillain Darth Revan in ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' -- it's revealed in the second game that Revan Revan]] became a Sith Lord at least partly partially for the best interests of peace and justice and order in the galaxy. Then again, this seems to be that's a common self-justification and/or excuse and recruiting gimmick among slogan for Sith Lords. Lords--it's just that Revan is simply one of the very few who actually ''tried''.
** Actually, Kreia mentions in the sequel that Revan [[spoiler:was attempting to unify and solidify the galaxy to prepare for a colossal war with an extra-galactic, outside the Force threat, which just reeks powerfully of [[Literature/NewJediOrder the Yuuzhan Vong]].]]
** Later clarified in ''VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic'', that [[spoiler: the threat Revan
[[VideoGame/StarWarsTheOldRepublic To clarify:]] [[spoiler:Revan was trying to unite the galaxy against was the ''True'' [[RisingEmpire True Sith Empire, who had Empire,]] who'd been biding their time and consolidating their power in the Unknown Regions. The Their Emperor leading them is so evil and powerful, everything Revan was doing was actually very, ''very'' [[TheExtremistWasRight justified]]]].Revan had a good reason to do what he did.]]]]
11th Sep '17 4:15:52 PM Doug86
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''ComicBook/TheFantasticFour'': Some comics suggest (and, in at least one case, demonstrate) that allowing Doctor Doom to conquer the Earth will result in a utopia. Doom's a despot and a tyrant at the best of times, and another consequence of Dr. Doom taking over the Earth is the complete eradication of any kind of free will and immediate and total subservience to Doom's wishes, so this may not be as great as it seems. There's also the problem that he tends to get ''bored'' with utopia, as he's the sort that would rather be ''conquering'' than reigning over what he has.

to:

* ''ComicBook/TheFantasticFour'': ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': Some comics suggest (and, in at least one case, demonstrate) that allowing Doctor Doom to conquer the Earth will result in a utopia. Doom's a despot and a tyrant at the best of times, and another consequence of Dr. Doom taking over the Earth is the complete eradication of any kind of free will and immediate and total subservience to Doom's wishes, so this may not be as great as it seems. There's also the problem that he tends to get ''bored'' with utopia, as he's the sort that would rather be ''conquering'' than reigning over what he has.
3rd Sep '17 1:59:46 PM ReynTime250
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Count Bleck from ''VideoGame/SuperPaperMario'' would fit this trope perfectly [[spoiler:if it didn't turn out that he was just a StrawNihilist instead, just wanting to destroy everything without recreating it and LYING about it by telling his minions that he was going to recreate the universe as a utopia.]] Dimentio from the same game, on the other hand, fits this perfectly, even [[spoiler:betraying Count Bleck to destroy the world and remake it himself when he finds out that Bleck is lying.]]

to:

** Count Bleck from ''VideoGame/SuperPaperMario'' would fit this trope perfectly [[spoiler:if it didn't turn out that he was just a StrawNihilist instead, just wanting to destroy everything without recreating it and LYING about it by telling his minions that he was going to recreate the universe as a utopia.]] Dimentio from the same game, on the other hand, fits this perfectly, even [[spoiler:betraying Count Bleck to destroy the world and remake it himself when he finds out that Bleck is lying.]]
29th Aug '17 9:35:02 PM RoninMacbeth
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Heroic example on ''Series/GameOfThrones''. When [[HeroicBastard]] asks [[DragonRider Daenerys]] about the people she burned with her dragon during the battle she just returned from, she asks how many people Jon killed in order to take Winterfell back from the Boltons (the answer, incidentally, is "Thousands"). Daenerys is fairly convinced that in order to "[[ArcWords break the wheel]]," she needs to invoke JoinOrDie on the people of Westeros. {{Downplayed}}, [[TheGoodChancellor Tyrion]] and [[TheSpymaster Varys]] have no issue with the world she is trying to build (they stand to benefit greatly from her utopia), and for the most part they're able to restrain Daenerys' more KnightTemplar impulses. After [[spoiler:Viserion is killed by the White Walkers, she mostly drops this in favor of an EnemyMine with Jon and Cersei. Existential threats are a bit more pressing than building utopia, after all.]]

to:

* Heroic example on ''Series/GameOfThrones''. When [[HeroicBastard]] [[HeroicBastard Jon Snow]] asks [[DragonRider Daenerys]] about the people she burned with her dragon during the battle she just returned from, she asks how many people Jon killed in order to take Winterfell back from the Boltons (the answer, incidentally, is "Thousands"). Daenerys is fairly convinced that in order to "[[ArcWords break the wheel]]," she needs to invoke JoinOrDie on the people of Westeros. {{Downplayed}}, [[TheGoodChancellor Tyrion]] and [[TheSpymaster Varys]] have no issue with the world she is trying to build (they stand to benefit greatly from her utopia), and for the most part they're able to restrain Daenerys' more KnightTemplar impulses. After [[spoiler:Viserion is killed by the White Walkers, she mostly drops this in favor of an EnemyMine with Jon and Cersei. Existential threats are a bit more pressing than building utopia, after all.]]
29th Aug '17 9:34:25 PM RoninMacbeth
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Heroic example on ''Series/GameOfThrones''. When [[HeroicBastard]] asks [[DragonRider Daenerys]] about the people she burned with her dragon during the battle she just returned from, she asks how many people Jon killed in order to take Winterfell back from the Boltons (the answer, incidentally, is "Thousands"). Daenerys is fairly convinced that in order to "[[ArcWords break the wheel]]," she needs to invoke JoinOrDie on the people of Westeros. {{Downplayed}}, [[TheGoodChancellor Tyrion]] and [[TheSpymaster Varys]] have no issue with the world she is trying to build (they stand to benefit greatly from her utopia), and for the most part they're able to restrain Daenerys' more KnightTemplar impulses. After [[spoiler:Viserion is killed by the White Walkers, she mostly drops this in favor of an EnemyMine with Jon and Cersei. Existential threats are a bit more pressing than building utopia, after all.]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 249. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.UtopiaJustifiestheMeans