History Main / TheNeidermeyer

8th Mar '17 9:57:29 AM nombretomado
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* in the {{McAuslan}} books, the sole Neidermeyer in a mess full of SergeantRock types is the hapless Sergeant Baxter. it isn't entirely Baxter's fault: he's just been [[PeterPrinciple overpromoted]] and even as a Corporal lacked experience and ability. his inexperience and incapacity for the rank (bestowed after the more able Sergeant Telfer is demobilised) cause problems. it even reverses the usual relationship with his lieutenant: Dand [=McNeill=] is forced to reprimand him at least twice.

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* in In the {{McAuslan}} ''Literature/McAuslan'' books, the sole Neidermeyer in a mess full of SergeantRock types is the hapless Sergeant Baxter. it isn't entirely Baxter's fault: he's just been [[PeterPrinciple overpromoted]] and even as a Corporal lacked experience and ability. his inexperience and incapacity for the rank (bestowed after the more able Sergeant Telfer is demobilised) cause problems. it even reverses the usual relationship with his lieutenant: Dand [=McNeill=] is forced to reprimand him at least twice.
25th Feb '17 2:03:17 PM nombretomado
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* In the DaleBrown novel ''Sky Masters'', an inexperienced Captain second-guesses his air defence expert and, when one anti-air missile misfires, shuts down the point defence net in his {{Lawful Stupid}}ity, allowing an antiship missile to get through and hit the carrier they were supposed to be protecting. Said misfired missile had actually exploded and was tumbling back towards the launcher - keeping the other launch cells closed was a prudent thing to do; keeping on firing might have risked BOTH ships.

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* In the DaleBrown Creator/DaleBrown novel ''Sky Masters'', an inexperienced Captain second-guesses his air defence expert and, when one anti-air missile misfires, shuts down the point defence net in his {{Lawful Stupid}}ity, allowing an antiship missile to get through and hit the carrier they were supposed to be protecting. Said misfired missile had actually exploded and was tumbling back towards the launcher - keeping the other launch cells closed was a prudent thing to do; keeping on firing might have risked BOTH ships.
12th Jan '17 9:27:43 AM CurledUpWithDakka
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** Except perhaps Major --- De Coverley, he's more of a MemeticBadass with an awe-inspiring reputation and fearsome appearance, but no real authority beyond renting apartments. [[spoiler: Like anyone who's not a complete bastard, he dies or disappears.]]

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** Except perhaps Major --- -- De Coverley, he's more of a MemeticBadass with an awe-inspiring reputation and fearsome appearance, but no real authority beyond renting apartments. [[spoiler: Like [[spoiler:Like anyone who's not a complete bastard, he dies or disappears.]]



* General Lord Ronald Rust from the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' novels doesn't actually get shot by his own men in ''Discworld/{{Jingo}}'', but his overbearing superiority and tactical incompetence make it very tempting. As a captain in ''Discworld/NightWatch'', he is knocked him unconscious by his own men when he orders them to fire on civilians.

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* General Lord Ronald Rust from the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' novels doesn't actually get shot by his own men in ''Discworld/{{Jingo}}'', but his overbearing superiority and tactical incompetence make it very tempting. As a captain in ''Discworld/NightWatch'', he is knocked him unconscious by his own men when he orders them to fire on civilians.



** Lieutenant Weems from ''Knee-Deep in the Dead''. He was so incompetent and cowardly that he ordered his men to fire on a bunch of harmless monks protesting their war efforts, mistaking them for suicide bombers even after one of his scout Arlene told him they were harmless. Fly decked him for that, and that's why he is stuck on suspension in the cafeteria on Phobos when everything goes to Hell. Throughout the novel Fly has unflattering thoughts about Weems, believing that he's the kind of guy who would side with the alien invaders if it meant saving his own skin. [[spoiler: Fly finds the bodies of Weems and another soldier who had entered a suicide pact after the aliens trapped them in a FateWorseThanDeath by ''fusing their heads together'', after that he feels too much pity to hate the man anymore]].

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** Lieutenant Weems from ''Knee-Deep in the Dead''. He was so incompetent and cowardly that he ordered his men to fire on a bunch of harmless monks protesting their war efforts, mistaking them for suicide bombers even after one of his scout Arlene told him they were harmless. Fly decked him for that, and that's why he is stuck on suspension in the cafeteria on Phobos when everything goes to Hell. Throughout the novel Fly has unflattering thoughts about Weems, believing that he's the kind of guy who would side with the alien invaders if it meant saving his own skin. [[spoiler: Fly [[spoiler:Fly finds the bodies of Weems and another soldier who had entered a suicide pact after the aliens trapped them in a FateWorseThanDeath by ''fusing their heads together'', after that he feels too much pity to hate the man anymore]].



* A couple generals in Urtho's army in ''[[Literature/HeraldsOfValdemar The Black Gryphon]]''. Troops of all species dread being placed under their command because they're known for using tactics which would be gloriously victorious if they ever worked, but since they never work, are instead suicidally stupid. [[spoiler: It eventually turns out they're traitors, and they plan on losing every time.]]

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* A couple generals in Urtho's army in ''[[Literature/HeraldsOfValdemar The Black Gryphon]]''. Troops of all species dread being placed under their command because they're known for using tactics which would be gloriously victorious if they ever worked, but since they never work, are instead suicidally stupid. [[spoiler: It [[spoiler:It eventually turns out they're traitors, and they plan on losing every time.]]



** He does show merit as a leader during several moments in season 8, most notably when [[spoiler: he trusts Grif to help him take down Agent Washington, and later to help him rescue The Alpha device and take down The Meta.]]

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** He does show merit as a leader during several moments in season 8, most notably when [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he trusts Grif to help him take down Agent Washington, and later to help him rescue The Alpha device and take down The Meta.]]



** Lieutenant Colonel Ford attempts to land his plane on Sand Island despite the island being under attack and being told to wave off by the base. When Chopper lets slip that he thinks he's completely nuts and/or stupid, Ford threatens to write him up when he lands. [[spoiler: It gets cut off when an enemy plane shoots him down]].
* Admiral Greyfield of ''VideoGame/AdvanceWars: Days of Ruin''. A complete coward and a sub par commander who's greatest skills are taking credit for victories, and shifting blame for loses. He threatens executions for any failure to follow his orders to the letter, especially the order to win the battle. His cowardice is so much that he relentlessly hunts down any that don't adhere to absolute rule no matter how many of his own men are sacrificed or caught in the blast of the super weapon used to [[spoiler: [[NoKillLikeOverkill kill a single dissenting captain]]]], even resorting to executing enemies after surrender.

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** Lieutenant Colonel Ford attempts to land his plane on Sand Island despite the island being under attack and being told to wave off by the base. When Chopper lets slip that he thinks he's completely nuts and/or stupid, Ford threatens to write him up when he lands. [[spoiler: It [[spoiler:It gets cut off when an enemy plane shoots him down]].
* Admiral Greyfield of ''VideoGame/AdvanceWars: Days of Ruin''. A complete coward and a sub par commander who's greatest skills are taking credit for victories, and shifting blame for loses. He threatens executions for any failure to follow his orders to the letter, especially the order to win the battle. His cowardice is so much that he relentlessly hunts down any that don't adhere to absolute rule no matter how many of his own men are sacrificed or caught in the blast of the super weapon used to [[spoiler: [[NoKillLikeOverkill [[spoiler:[[NoKillLikeOverkill kill a single dissenting captain]]]], even resorting to executing enemies after surrender.



* Lt. Cole Phelps of ''VideoGame/LANoire'' is such a Niedermeyer that it actually winds up driving most of the game's plot. Cole [[FreakOut being paralysed with fear at a convenient moment]] ensured that he was the last man standing after a night fighting the Japanese on Okinawa, which made him a war hero and he rose rapidly through the LAPD as a result. His Marines, infuriated at this, decided to steal massive crates of guns and drugs from the military because they thought they deserved to get rewarded as well. [[spoiler: Cole's order to burn out an enemy cave that turned out to be a field hospital gives one of his men massive PTSD and he is later revealed as the serial arsonist. This also so enrages the unit's medic that he actually shoots Cole in the back and later goes on to lead the aforementioned heist]].

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* Lt. Cole Phelps of ''VideoGame/LANoire'' is such a Niedermeyer that it actually winds up driving most of the game's plot. Cole [[FreakOut being paralysed with fear at a convenient moment]] ensured that he was the last man standing after a night fighting the Japanese on Okinawa, which made him a war hero and he rose rapidly through the LAPD as a result. His Marines, infuriated at this, decided to steal massive crates of guns and drugs from the military because they thought they deserved to get rewarded as well. [[spoiler: Cole's [[spoiler:Cole's order to burn out an enemy cave that turned out to be a field hospital gives one of his men massive PTSD and he is later revealed as the serial arsonist. This also so enrages the unit's medic that he actually shoots Cole in the back and later goes on to lead the aforementioned heist]].



* Captain Bannon from ''VideoGame/WorldInConflict'' is this trope to a T, panicking when faced with opposition his men should be able to handle, ''whining'' when fighting at a disadvantage instead of focusing on how to keep the fight going favorably, deriding the player's character for his competence, and ''shooting enemy infantry'' who were trying to convey their wish to surrender by waving white flags. In the end, however, he becomes arguably the most heroic character among the Americans followed by the narrative, [[spoiler: volunteering to sacrifice himself to a friendly nuclear weapon so the approaching enemy will plow towards him into the blast radius, as retreating would've clued the Soviets in that something was wrong.]]

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* Captain Bannon from ''VideoGame/WorldInConflict'' is this trope to a T, panicking when faced with opposition his men should be able to handle, ''whining'' when fighting at a disadvantage instead of focusing on how to keep the fight going favorably, deriding the player's character for his competence, and ''shooting enemy infantry'' who were trying to convey their wish to surrender by waving white flags. In the end, however, he becomes arguably the most heroic character among the Americans followed by the narrative, [[spoiler: volunteering [[spoiler:volunteering to sacrifice himself to a friendly nuclear weapon so the approaching enemy will plow towards him into the blast radius, as retreating would've clued the Soviets in that something was wrong.]]
16th Dec '16 8:18:43 PM eggishorn
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***Not exactly. Custer, like almost all Civil War officers of the United States Army had two ranks during the war - permanent Captain in the Regular Army and Major General in the United States Volunteers. When the Volunteers were mustered out he was reverted to his permanent rank and then double-promoted to Lieutenant Colonel - skipping the rank of Major. There is no "what everyone always forgets" involved. He did not expect to "regain his rank" because that wasn't his rank to regain. He was actually at a higher rank than expected specifically because he had been such an effective and well-liked leader in the Civil War. He was a glory hound, but not for that reason.
25th Nov '16 4:33:18 AM TheWildWestPyro
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* UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler. By the end of the War, many of his own men--particularly his generals--wanted him dead more than the Allies due to his repeated strategic blunders (the Allies stopped trying to kill him, fearing someone ''competent'' would take his place). Indeed, a few senior officers such as [[MagnificentBastard Erwin]] [[AFatherToHisMen Rommel]], (many of them [[OfficerAndAGentleman Junkers]]-contrary to [[NaziNobleman common belief]], the German nobility generally disdained or even outright hated Hitler, who returned the sentiment), participated with [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_Plot a plot to assassinate Hitler]] in 1944. [[CaptainObvious It failed]]. [[SarcasmMode On the bright side]], it inspired the film ''Film/{{Valkyrie}}''.

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* UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler. By the end of the War, many of his own men--particularly his generals--wanted him dead more than the Allies due to his repeated strategic blunders (the Allies stopped trying to kill him, fearing someone ''competent'' would take his place). Indeed, a few senior officers such as [[MagnificentBastard Erwin]] [[AFatherToHisMen Rommel]], Claus von Stauffenberg, (many of them [[OfficerAndAGentleman Junkers]]-contrary to [[NaziNobleman common belief]], the German nobility generally disdained or even outright hated Hitler, who returned the sentiment), participated with [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_Plot a plot to assassinate Hitler]] in 1944. [[CaptainObvious It failed]]. [[SarcasmMode On the bright side]], it inspired the film ''Film/{{Valkyrie}}''.



* Virtually every officer in the {{Imperial Japan}}ese military, in large part due to their brutal discipline and rigid stratification between enlisted and officer ranks. Imperial officers and [=NCOs=] were supposed to make their men fear them more than they feared the enemy. This tended to backfire in the Air services because the more experienced enlisted pilots would simply abandon officers that they didn't like; actual fragging was normally unnecessary since being alone in a dogfight usually meant you were dead meat. According to one surviving enlisted pilot unpopular officers "often failed to come back."
* Virtually every officer in the pre-Russo-Japanese war {{Tsarist Russia}}n military, because of the brutal means of discipline and strict social class differences. Almost all officers came from the privileged nobility, while the enlisted men were almost all [[SlaveMook force-levied conscripts]]. One particular example was Lieutenant Ippolit Giliarovsky on pre-dreadnought battleship ''Potemkin'', whose uppity, cocky and bullying behaviour sparked the mutiny immortalized on Sergei Eisenstein's ''Film/BattleshipPotemkin''.

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* Virtually every officer in the {{Imperial Japan}}ese military, in large part due to their brutal discipline and rigid stratification between enlisted and officer ranks. Imperial officers and [=NCOs=] were supposed to make their men fear them more than they feared the enemy. This tended to backfire in the Air services because the more experienced enlisted pilots would simply abandon officers that they didn't like; actual fragging was normally unnecessary since being alone in a dogfight usually meant you were dead meat. According to one surviving enlisted pilot pilot, unpopular officers "often failed to come back."
* Virtually Similarly, virtually every officer in the pre-Russo-Japanese war {{Tsarist Russia}}n military, because of the brutal means of discipline and strict social class differences. Almost all officers came from the privileged nobility, while the enlisted men were almost all [[SlaveMook force-levied conscripts]]. One particular example was Lieutenant Ippolit Giliarovsky on pre-dreadnought battleship ''Potemkin'', whose uppity, cocky and bullying behaviour sparked the mutiny immortalized on Sergei Eisenstein's ''Film/BattleshipPotemkin''.



* Second Lieutenant William Calley, commanding officer of the platoon that perpetrated the [[UsefulNotes/VietnamWar My Lai massacre]], was regarded as incompetent and there had been discussions already within the platoon of fragging him. It's occasionally been noted that Calley was a product of Robert S. [=MacNamara's=] "Project 100,000," which sought to expand the US Army's numbers cheaply by lowering standards across the board. Had it not been for that failed initiative, most agree that Calley wouldn't have even been allowed in the Army, much less put in charge of anything.

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* Second Lieutenant William Calley, commanding officer of the platoon that perpetrated the [[UsefulNotes/VietnamWar My Lai massacre]], was regarded as incompetent (for starters, he couldn't even read a map or compass properly) and there had been discussions already within the platoon of fragging him. It's occasionally been noted that Calley was a product of Robert S. [=MacNamara's=] "Project 100,000," which sought to expand the US Army's numbers cheaply by lowering standards across the board. Had it not been for that failed initiative, most agree that Calley wouldn't have even been allowed in the Army, much less put in charge of anything.
25th Nov '16 4:28:29 AM TheWildWestPyro
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** Started a (confirmed) drag race with another destroyer that nearly resulted in a collision; the ships came within 300 feet of each other. A photo from the deck of Graf's ship shows the vessel heading straight toward the other. To make it worse, when the bridge crew went to sound a collision alarm (so all hands could brace and ready repairs), Graf ordered them to not sound the alarm. Such an alarm, after all, would have to be noted in the ship's logs. That would mean she'd have to explain why she endangered two very expensive ships and a couple hundred lives in a pissing contest

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** Started a (confirmed) drag race with another destroyer that nearly resulted in a collision; the ships came within 300 feet of each other. A photo [[http://www.militarycorruption.com/Images/near-miss.jpg photo]] from the deck of Graf's ship shows the vessel heading straight toward the other. To make it worse, when the bridge crew went to sound a collision alarm (so all hands could brace and ready repairs), Graf ordered them to not sound the alarm. Such an alarm, after all, would have to be noted in the ship's logs. That would mean she'd have to explain why she endangered two very expensive ships and a couple hundred lives in a pissing contest
24th Nov '16 6:04:26 PM ChronoLegion
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** Notably, there are times when [[JerkassHasAPoint Vaganov isn't entirely wrong]], such as when he sends Mazer and Bingwen into a dangerous situation rather than take the safer option in order to obtain more intel on the Formics. The revised mission ends up discovering that [[spoiler:the Hive Queen is breeding daughters in asteroids in order to serve as local commanders, allowing her to focus on better controlling a smaller number of soldiers. Bingwen manages to kill one of the daughters with a crossbow bolt through the eye and then igniting the hydrogen in the asteroid. This leaves an intact Formic warship with no crew to study]].
24th Nov '16 5:50:18 PM ChronoLegion
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* The International Fleet is full of them in the second ''Literature/FormicWars'' trilogy (prequels to ''Literature/EndersGame''). Colonel Vaganov is an especially dangerous example because he's very smart and good at playing the career game. He quickly singles Mazer out as a competent marine and does what he can to use Mazer for his own advancement. When Mazer disobeys his self-serving order for the good of humanity, Vaganov has him arrested and treated inhumanely, thinking that Mazer is playing his own career game and is trying to undermine Vaganov, before sending him to be court-martialed by an admiral, who's a good friend of his. WordOfGod is that the authors had to add this element to he prequels in order to stay true to the one-off line about Mazer from the original novel involving him being court-martialed twice and being largely unknown. The only way for someone like him to be court-martialed would be for the IF to be full of corrupt careerists, who resent competent officers and sabotage them. The ''Mazer in Prison'' comic (taking place between the prequels and the original novel) has Mazer holding himself hostage in order to force the IF to replace the careerists with competent officers. It works.
29th Oct '16 2:53:16 PM nombretomado
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* Mr. Peevly from ''[[TheHairBearBunch Help! It's The Hair Bear Bunch!]]''. Any respect the zoo animals give him is purely tongue-in-cheek.

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* Mr. Peevly from ''[[TheHairBearBunch ''[[WesternAnimation/TheHairBearBunch Help! It's The Hair Bear Bunch!]]''. Any respect the zoo animals give him is purely tongue-in-cheek.
20th Oct '16 10:26:35 AM Morgenthaler
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** Patton's diversion of provisions had a darker side, however, as he diverted them ''[[RightHandVersusLeftHand from other]] [[WeAreStrugglingTogether Allied armies]]''. His own army loved him, but ''everyone else'' hated him for stealing their food and leaving their men hungry... and unable to advance due to petrol and ammo shortages, leaving Patton's troops the only ones able to do so. This would've been alright if he'd been acting in the general interests of the entire Allied war effort, but 'make me look good' and 'win the war' are not compatible [[StrategyVersusTactics strategic-operational objectives]]. Sadly, like [[NoMoreEmperors Joseph Stilwell]] and Douglas [=MacArthur=], Patton could not (easily) be fired because he had an extremely cosy relationship with the media and was very popular. Had he not died in an auto accident shortly after the end of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, he probably would have gone out like [=MacArthur=]. Namely, dismissed for being a political liability who put his own military glory first, and global consequences, no matter how dire, second.

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** Patton's diversion of provisions had a darker side, however, as he diverted them ''[[RightHandVersusLeftHand from other]] [[WeAreStrugglingTogether Allied armies]]''. His own army loved him, but ''everyone else'' hated him for stealing their food and leaving their men hungry... and unable to advance due to petrol and ammo shortages, leaving Patton's troops the only ones able to do so. This would've been alright if he'd been acting in the general interests of the entire Allied war effort, but 'make me look good' and 'win the war' are not compatible [[StrategyVersusTactics strategic-operational objectives]]. Sadly, like [[NoMoreEmperors [[UsefulNotes/NoMoreEmperors Joseph Stilwell]] and Douglas [=MacArthur=], Patton could not (easily) be fired because he had an extremely cosy relationship with the media and was very popular. Had he not died in an auto accident shortly after the end of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, he probably would have gone out like [=MacArthur=]. Namely, dismissed for being a political liability who put his own military glory first, and global consequences, no matter how dire, second.
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