History Main / TheNeidermeyer

8th Jul '17 12:50:53 PM nombretomado
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*** TheOtherWiki implies he fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he became a ShellShockedVeteran.

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*** TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki implies he fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he became a ShellShockedVeteran.



** An even more infamous example from the same war and company (and eventual miniseries) is 1st Lt. Norman Dike. He's been accused of delegating all duty to lower officers and [=NCOs=] during his tenure, and for disappearing from the front lines for hours at a time during the Battle of the Bulge; many of the men under (and over) him accused him of simply using the E Company assignment as a way to get "field experience" before continuing his climb up the ladder. Most infamous, however, is his historically-documented ''meltdown'' during the assault on Foy, Belgium. While trying to lead E Company on the Foy attack, he completely froze up from terror and was unable to give any commands at all, aside from one order for Easy to halt their advance into the town... in the middle of an open field. He was famously relieved of duty by [[MemeticBadass Ronald Spiers]], who would go on to lead E Company to victory in Foy. After this incident, Dike was quickly drummed out of the Airborne and was lucky to not be kicked out of the Army wholesale. TheOtherWiki implies he had fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he had become a ShellShockedVeteran.

to:

** An even more infamous example from the same war and company (and eventual miniseries) is 1st Lt. Norman Dike. He's been accused of delegating all duty to lower officers and [=NCOs=] during his tenure, and for disappearing from the front lines for hours at a time during the Battle of the Bulge; many of the men under (and over) him accused him of simply using the E Company assignment as a way to get "field experience" before continuing his climb up the ladder. Most infamous, however, is his historically-documented ''meltdown'' during the assault on Foy, Belgium. While trying to lead E Company on the Foy attack, he completely froze up from terror and was unable to give any commands at all, aside from one order for Easy to halt their advance into the town... in the middle of an open field. He was famously relieved of duty by [[MemeticBadass Ronald Spiers]], who would go on to lead E Company to victory in Foy. After this incident, Dike was quickly drummed out of the Airborne and was lucky to not be kicked out of the Army wholesale. TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki implies he had fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he had become a ShellShockedVeteran.
2nd Jul '17 7:17:47 PM Bootlebat
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* In DungeonsAndDragons the piscoloths are described as the sergeants of the [[NeutralEvil yugoloth]] race. They are so cruel to their subordinates that said subordinates tend to [[TheStarscream gang up and murder them]] whenever given half the chance.
30th Jun '17 2:34:39 AM Killerweinerdog
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** Orson Perrault, the commander of the protagonists' air base, is this as well as corpulent, a horrible shot (he doesn't know that [[spoiler:how emptying the magazine into the doorway where the targets ''were'' when the lights went out is a bad idea]]), and without giving [[spoiler:Wardog Squadron and Pops]] a chance to explain themselves he assumes them all to be spies.

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** Orson Perrault, the commander of the protagonists' air base, is this as well as corpulent, a horrible shot (he doesn't know that [[spoiler:how emptying the magazine into the doorway where the targets ''were'' when the lights went out is a bad idea]]), and without giving [[spoiler:Wardog Squadron and Pops]] a chance to explain themselves he assumes them all to be spies. Somewhat mitigated by the fact that [[spoiler:Hamilton convinced him that they were spies before they even landed, and that Pops had a past of his own that put him under suspicion.]]
29th May '17 6:25:07 AM Morgenthaler
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* Captain Hisashi Kurokawa of the HIMS ''Amagi'' in TaylorAnderson's ''Literature/{{Destroyermen}}'' series. A more extreme example of a typical ImperialJapan naval officer (see RealLife below), he is openly disdainful of his men (both officers and noncoms) and reasons that any success by the enemy must be due to traitors in his ranks. He freely allows the [[LizardFolk Grik]] to kill and eat a percentage of his crew to placate them and has no problems sending pilots on suicide missions (even telling them not bothering coming back if they fail).

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* Captain Hisashi Kurokawa of the HIMS ''Amagi'' in TaylorAnderson's ''Literature/{{Destroyermen}}'' series. A more extreme example of a typical ImperialJapan UsefulNotes/ImperialJapan naval officer (see RealLife below), he is openly disdainful of his men (both officers and noncoms) and reasons that any success by the enemy must be due to traitors in his ranks. He freely allows the [[LizardFolk Grik]] to kill and eat a percentage of his crew to placate them and has no problems sending pilots on suicide missions (even telling them not bothering coming back if they fail).



** Note that this had changed by UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, largely as a result of the reforms that came in the wake of the embarrassing stalemate that was [[ImperialJapan the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-5]]. In 1913, 40% of the Officer Academies' graduates were landless gentry (i.e. families with titles, but little or no money), and another 40% were of the lower-middle class and peasantry. Only 20% of graduates were from land-owning and/or middle-middle-to-upper-class families. This was a drastically lower proportion than in Germany, wherein the Army's officer corps was overwhelmingly aristocratic. Unlike in contemporary Germany, the Imperial Russian army was actually a means for 'upward' social mobility. The RoyalNavy officers, who served as liaison officers, were appalled by the Russian Imperial Navy's brutal discipline and the incompetence of the officers. The Russian Imperial Navy used corporal punishments, which had been abandoned already in the Napoleonic times in the Royal Navy. The disaster in the Russo-Japanese war forced the Russians to reform.

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** Note that this had changed by UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, largely as a result of the reforms that came in the wake of the embarrassing stalemate that was [[ImperialJapan [[UsefulNotes/ImperialJapan the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-5]]. In 1913, 40% of the Officer Academies' graduates were landless gentry (i.e. families with titles, but little or no money), and another 40% were of the lower-middle class and peasantry. Only 20% of graduates were from land-owning and/or middle-middle-to-upper-class families. This was a drastically lower proportion than in Germany, wherein the Army's officer corps was overwhelmingly aristocratic. Unlike in contemporary Germany, the Imperial Russian army was actually a means for 'upward' social mobility. The RoyalNavy officers, who served as liaison officers, were appalled by the Russian Imperial Navy's brutal discipline and the incompetence of the officers. The Russian Imperial Navy used corporal punishments, which had been abandoned already in the Napoleonic times in the Royal Navy. The disaster in the Russo-Japanese war forced the Russians to reform.
16th May '17 9:49:06 AM nombretomado
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* Similarly, virtually every officer in the pre-Russo-Japanese war {{Tsarist Russia}}n military, because of the brutal means of discipline and strict social class differences. Almost all officers came from the privileged nobility, while the enlisted men were almost all [[SlaveMook force-levied conscripts]]. One particular example was Lieutenant Ippolit Giliarovsky on pre-dreadnought battleship ''Potemkin'', whose uppity, cocky and bullying behaviour sparked the mutiny immortalized on Sergei Eisenstein's ''Film/BattleshipPotemkin''.

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* Similarly, virtually every officer in the pre-Russo-Japanese war {{Tsarist UsefulNotes/{{Tsarist Russia}}n military, because of the brutal means of discipline and strict social class differences. Almost all officers came from the privileged nobility, while the enlisted men were almost all [[SlaveMook force-levied conscripts]]. One particular example was Lieutenant Ippolit Giliarovsky on pre-dreadnought battleship ''Potemkin'', whose uppity, cocky and bullying behaviour sparked the mutiny immortalized on Sergei Eisenstein's ''Film/BattleshipPotemkin''.
10th May '17 12:48:06 AM morane
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** An even more infamous example from the same war and company (and eventual miniseries) is 1st Lt. Norman Dike. He's been accused of delegating all duty to lower officers and [=NCOs=] during his tenure, and for disappearing from the front lines for hours at a time during the Battle of the Bulge; many of the men under (and over) him accused him of simply using the E Company assignment as a way to get "field experience" before continuing his climb up the ladder. Most infamous, however, is his historically-documented ''meltdown'' during the assault on Foy, Belgium. While trying to lead E Company on the Foy attack, he completely froze up from terror and was unable to give any commands at all, aside from one order for Easy to halt their advance into the town... in the middle of an open field. He was famously relieved of duty by [[MemeticBadass Ronald Spiers]], who would go on to lead E Company to victory in Foy. After this incident, Dike was quickly drummed out of the Airborne and was lucky to not be kicked out of the Army wholesale.

to:

** An even more infamous example from the same war and company (and eventual miniseries) is 1st Lt. Norman Dike. He's been accused of delegating all duty to lower officers and [=NCOs=] during his tenure, and for disappearing from the front lines for hours at a time during the Battle of the Bulge; many of the men under (and over) him accused him of simply using the E Company assignment as a way to get "field experience" before continuing his climb up the ladder. Most infamous, however, is his historically-documented ''meltdown'' during the assault on Foy, Belgium. While trying to lead E Company on the Foy attack, he completely froze up from terror and was unable to give any commands at all, aside from one order for Easy to halt their advance into the town... in the middle of an open field. He was famously relieved of duty by [[MemeticBadass Ronald Spiers]], who would go on to lead E Company to victory in Foy. After this incident, Dike was quickly drummed out of the Airborne and was lucky to not be kicked out of the Army wholesale. TheOtherWiki implies he had fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he had become a ShellShockedVeteran.
4th May '17 4:23:00 AM morane
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* In ''TabletopGame/WarhammerFantasyBattle'' 3rd Edition scenario "Fornerond's Last Stand", the High Elf general Fornerond Breezenimble (who happens to get killed immediately ''before'' the actual battle) is described to have been a completely incompetent nincompoop.



** And his superior, Captain Ernest Medina, was little better. Medina was a martinet who openly harassed Calley, pushing him over the edge. It is suggested Medina himself ordered My Lai to be destroyed. Medina was an excellent NCO but a complete failure as an officer.
** In the recently-published book ''The Generals'' by Thomas Ricks, the argument is made that the general officer corps of the US Army is overloaded with Neidermeyers (and several from World War Two to Iraq and Afghanistan are described), and it's only because of the competence of the enlisted, [[SergeantRock NCOs]], and [[FatherToHisMen good junior officers]] that this hasn't become more obvious.
*** However, the wheels are starting to come off, and it's too late to tighten the lug nuts. Junior officers and senior NCO's, aware that the military is downsizing and completely fed up with incompetent leadership where the Neidermeyer is far too common, are hitting the door in ''droves.'' A great deal of their frustration was succinctly summed up in a devastating article written by an ''active duty'' lieutenant colonel. He boldly and honestly stated that a soldier who lost a rifle faced far greater consequences than a general who lost a battle or a war. Further, he observed that generals and admirals who commit rape and sexual harassment are protected by a "good old boy" system that ensures the worst that will happen to them is retirement with full pay and benefits. He ended the article by saying that junior personnel are fully aware that their leadership will throw them under a bus without a moment's hesitation.

to:

** And his superior, Captain Ernest Medina, was little better. Medina was a martinet who openly harassed Calley, pushing him over the edge. It is suggested Medina himself ordered My Lai to be destroyed. Medina was an [[ThePeterPrinciple excellent NCO but a complete failure as an officer.
**
officer]].
*
In the recently-published book ''The Generals'' by Thomas Ricks, the argument is made that the general officer corps of the US Army is overloaded with Neidermeyers (and several from World War Two to Iraq and Afghanistan are described), and it's only because of the competence of the enlisted, [[SergeantRock NCOs]], and [[FatherToHisMen good junior officers]] that this hasn't become more obvious.
*** ** However, the wheels are starting to come off, and it's too late to tighten the lug nuts. Junior officers and senior NCO's, aware that the military is downsizing and completely fed up with incompetent leadership where the Neidermeyer is far too common, are hitting the door in ''droves.'' A great deal of their frustration was succinctly summed up in a devastating article written by an ''active duty'' lieutenant colonel. He boldly and honestly stated that a soldier who lost a rifle faced far greater consequences than a general who lost a battle or a war. Further, he observed that generals and admirals who commit rape and sexual harassment are protected by a "good old boy" system that ensures the worst that will happen to them is retirement with full pay and benefits. He ended the article by saying that junior personnel are fully aware that their leadership will throw them under a bus without a moment's hesitation.
4th May '17 1:59:09 AM morane
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This trope goes often goes hand in hand with ThePeterPrinciple: the leader has simply advanced to a level too much for his capabilities.
27th Apr '17 9:12:45 AM morane
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* ''Literature/TheUnknownSoldier'': Staff Sergeant Sinkkonen is both a cocky martinet ''and'' a completely incompetent barracks warrior. Lieutnant Lammio is an tentative aversion. While he is an immensely skilled tactician and brave to the point of insanity, he is just as cocky as Sinkkonen, has NoSocialSkills and no humanising weaknesses whatsoever. His men hate him.

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* ''Literature/TheUnknownSoldier'': Staff Sergeant Sinkkonen is both a cocky martinet ''and'' a completely incompetent barracks warrior. Lieutnant Lammio is an tentative aversion. While he is an immensely skilled tactician and brave to the point of insanity, he is just as cocky as Sinkkonen, has NoSocialSkills and no humanising weaknesses whatsoever. His men hate him. Corporal Lehto is another aversion: he is shown to possess psychopathic and antisocial tendencies, and he bullies Pvt. Riitaoja relentlessly, but he is not incompetent nor a coward. His men fear him.


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*** TheOtherWiki implies he fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he became a ShellShockedVeteran.
16th Apr '17 8:53:30 PM TheWildWestPyro
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** He was a glory-seeking General that lost his wits, every man of his Seventh Calvary, and his life in the campaign that led to the Little Big Horn. And he got in that mess from increasingly frantic and frustrated desire for glory to turn to political advantage, no matter how many tribes or soldiers died to get it!

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** He was a glory-seeking General that lost his wits, every man of his in the Seventh Calvary, Cavalry, and his life in the campaign that led to the Little Big Horn. And he got in that mess from an increasingly frantic and frustrated desire for glory to turn to into a political advantage, no matter how many tribes or soldiers died to get it!
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.TheNeidermeyer