History Main / TheNeidermeyer

16th May '17 9:49:06 AM nombretomado
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* Similarly, virtually every officer in the pre-Russo-Japanese war {{Tsarist Russia}}n military, because of the brutal means of discipline and strict social class differences. Almost all officers came from the privileged nobility, while the enlisted men were almost all [[SlaveMook force-levied conscripts]]. One particular example was Lieutenant Ippolit Giliarovsky on pre-dreadnought battleship ''Potemkin'', whose uppity, cocky and bullying behaviour sparked the mutiny immortalized on Sergei Eisenstein's ''Film/BattleshipPotemkin''.

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* Similarly, virtually every officer in the pre-Russo-Japanese war {{Tsarist UsefulNotes/{{Tsarist Russia}}n military, because of the brutal means of discipline and strict social class differences. Almost all officers came from the privileged nobility, while the enlisted men were almost all [[SlaveMook force-levied conscripts]]. One particular example was Lieutenant Ippolit Giliarovsky on pre-dreadnought battleship ''Potemkin'', whose uppity, cocky and bullying behaviour sparked the mutiny immortalized on Sergei Eisenstein's ''Film/BattleshipPotemkin''.
10th May '17 12:48:06 AM morane
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** An even more infamous example from the same war and company (and eventual miniseries) is 1st Lt. Norman Dike. He's been accused of delegating all duty to lower officers and [=NCOs=] during his tenure, and for disappearing from the front lines for hours at a time during the Battle of the Bulge; many of the men under (and over) him accused him of simply using the E Company assignment as a way to get "field experience" before continuing his climb up the ladder. Most infamous, however, is his historically-documented ''meltdown'' during the assault on Foy, Belgium. While trying to lead E Company on the Foy attack, he completely froze up from terror and was unable to give any commands at all, aside from one order for Easy to halt their advance into the town... in the middle of an open field. He was famously relieved of duty by [[MemeticBadass Ronald Spiers]], who would go on to lead E Company to victory in Foy. After this incident, Dike was quickly drummed out of the Airborne and was lucky to not be kicked out of the Army wholesale.

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** An even more infamous example from the same war and company (and eventual miniseries) is 1st Lt. Norman Dike. He's been accused of delegating all duty to lower officers and [=NCOs=] during his tenure, and for disappearing from the front lines for hours at a time during the Battle of the Bulge; many of the men under (and over) him accused him of simply using the E Company assignment as a way to get "field experience" before continuing his climb up the ladder. Most infamous, however, is his historically-documented ''meltdown'' during the assault on Foy, Belgium. While trying to lead E Company on the Foy attack, he completely froze up from terror and was unable to give any commands at all, aside from one order for Easy to halt their advance into the town... in the middle of an open field. He was famously relieved of duty by [[MemeticBadass Ronald Spiers]], who would go on to lead E Company to victory in Foy. After this incident, Dike was quickly drummed out of the Airborne and was lucky to not be kicked out of the Army wholesale. TheOtherWiki implies he had fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he had become a ShellShockedVeteran.
4th May '17 4:23:00 AM morane
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* In ''TabletopGame/WarhammerFantasyBattle'' 3rd Edition scenario "Fornerond's Last Stand", the High Elf general Fornerond Breezenimble (who happens to get killed immediately ''before'' the actual battle) is described to have been a completely incompetent nincompoop.



** And his superior, Captain Ernest Medina, was little better. Medina was a martinet who openly harassed Calley, pushing him over the edge. It is suggested Medina himself ordered My Lai to be destroyed. Medina was an excellent NCO but a complete failure as an officer.
** In the recently-published book ''The Generals'' by Thomas Ricks, the argument is made that the general officer corps of the US Army is overloaded with Neidermeyers (and several from World War Two to Iraq and Afghanistan are described), and it's only because of the competence of the enlisted, [[SergeantRock NCOs]], and [[FatherToHisMen good junior officers]] that this hasn't become more obvious.
*** However, the wheels are starting to come off, and it's too late to tighten the lug nuts. Junior officers and senior NCO's, aware that the military is downsizing and completely fed up with incompetent leadership where the Neidermeyer is far too common, are hitting the door in ''droves.'' A great deal of their frustration was succinctly summed up in a devastating article written by an ''active duty'' lieutenant colonel. He boldly and honestly stated that a soldier who lost a rifle faced far greater consequences than a general who lost a battle or a war. Further, he observed that generals and admirals who commit rape and sexual harassment are protected by a "good old boy" system that ensures the worst that will happen to them is retirement with full pay and benefits. He ended the article by saying that junior personnel are fully aware that their leadership will throw them under a bus without a moment's hesitation.

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** And his superior, Captain Ernest Medina, was little better. Medina was a martinet who openly harassed Calley, pushing him over the edge. It is suggested Medina himself ordered My Lai to be destroyed. Medina was an [[ThePeterPrinciple excellent NCO but a complete failure as an officer.
**
officer]].
*
In the recently-published book ''The Generals'' by Thomas Ricks, the argument is made that the general officer corps of the US Army is overloaded with Neidermeyers (and several from World War Two to Iraq and Afghanistan are described), and it's only because of the competence of the enlisted, [[SergeantRock NCOs]], and [[FatherToHisMen good junior officers]] that this hasn't become more obvious.
*** ** However, the wheels are starting to come off, and it's too late to tighten the lug nuts. Junior officers and senior NCO's, aware that the military is downsizing and completely fed up with incompetent leadership where the Neidermeyer is far too common, are hitting the door in ''droves.'' A great deal of their frustration was succinctly summed up in a devastating article written by an ''active duty'' lieutenant colonel. He boldly and honestly stated that a soldier who lost a rifle faced far greater consequences than a general who lost a battle or a war. Further, he observed that generals and admirals who commit rape and sexual harassment are protected by a "good old boy" system that ensures the worst that will happen to them is retirement with full pay and benefits. He ended the article by saying that junior personnel are fully aware that their leadership will throw them under a bus without a moment's hesitation.
4th May '17 1:59:09 AM morane
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This trope goes often goes hand in hand with ThePeterPrinciple: the leader has simply advanced to a level too much for his capabilities.
27th Apr '17 9:12:45 AM morane
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* ''Literature/TheUnknownSoldier'': Staff Sergeant Sinkkonen is both a cocky martinet ''and'' a completely incompetent barracks warrior. Lieutnant Lammio is an tentative aversion. While he is an immensely skilled tactician and brave to the point of insanity, he is just as cocky as Sinkkonen, has NoSocialSkills and no humanising weaknesses whatsoever. His men hate him.

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* ''Literature/TheUnknownSoldier'': Staff Sergeant Sinkkonen is both a cocky martinet ''and'' a completely incompetent barracks warrior. Lieutnant Lammio is an tentative aversion. While he is an immensely skilled tactician and brave to the point of insanity, he is just as cocky as Sinkkonen, has NoSocialSkills and no humanising weaknesses whatsoever. His men hate him. Corporal Lehto is another aversion: he is shown to possess psychopathic and antisocial tendencies, and he bullies Pvt. Riitaoja relentlessly, but he is not incompetent nor a coward. His men fear him.


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*** TheOtherWiki implies he fought bravely and well in Normandy and got wounded twice. It is assumable he became a ShellShockedVeteran.
16th Apr '17 8:53:30 PM TheWildWestPyro
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** He was a glory-seeking General that lost his wits, every man of his Seventh Calvary, and his life in the campaign that led to the Little Big Horn. And he got in that mess from increasingly frantic and frustrated desire for glory to turn to political advantage, no matter how many tribes or soldiers died to get it!

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** He was a glory-seeking General that lost his wits, every man of his in the Seventh Calvary, Cavalry, and his life in the campaign that led to the Little Big Horn. And he got in that mess from an increasingly frantic and frustrated desire for glory to turn to into a political advantage, no matter how many tribes or soldiers died to get it!
28th Mar '17 9:42:10 AM xneon
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** Started a (confirmed) drag race with another destroyer that nearly resulted in a collision; the ships came within 300 feet of each other. A [[http://www.militarycorruption.com/Images/near-miss.jpg photo]] from the deck of Graf's ship shows the vessel heading straight toward the other. To make it worse, when the bridge crew went to sound a collision alarm (so all hands could brace and ready repairs), Graf ordered them to not sound the alarm. Such an alarm, after all, would have to be noted in the ship's logs. That would mean she'd have to explain why she endangered two very expensive ships and a couple hundred lives in a pissing contest

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** Started a (confirmed) drag race with another destroyer that nearly resulted in a collision; the ships came within 300 feet of each other. A [[http://www.militarycorruption.com/Images/near-miss.jpg photo]] from the deck of Graf's ship shows the vessel heading straight toward the other. To make it worse, when the bridge crew went to sound a collision alarm (so all hands could brace and ready repairs), Graf ordered them to not sound the alarm. Such an alarm, after all, would have to be noted in the ship's logs. That would mean she'd have to explain why she endangered two very expensive ships and a couple hundred lives in a pissing contestcontest.
8th Mar '17 9:57:29 AM nombretomado
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* in the {{McAuslan}} books, the sole Neidermeyer in a mess full of SergeantRock types is the hapless Sergeant Baxter. it isn't entirely Baxter's fault: he's just been [[PeterPrinciple overpromoted]] and even as a Corporal lacked experience and ability. his inexperience and incapacity for the rank (bestowed after the more able Sergeant Telfer is demobilised) cause problems. it even reverses the usual relationship with his lieutenant: Dand [=McNeill=] is forced to reprimand him at least twice.

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* in In the {{McAuslan}} ''Literature/McAuslan'' books, the sole Neidermeyer in a mess full of SergeantRock types is the hapless Sergeant Baxter. it isn't entirely Baxter's fault: he's just been [[PeterPrinciple overpromoted]] and even as a Corporal lacked experience and ability. his inexperience and incapacity for the rank (bestowed after the more able Sergeant Telfer is demobilised) cause problems. it even reverses the usual relationship with his lieutenant: Dand [=McNeill=] is forced to reprimand him at least twice.
25th Feb '17 2:03:17 PM nombretomado
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* In the DaleBrown novel ''Sky Masters'', an inexperienced Captain second-guesses his air defence expert and, when one anti-air missile misfires, shuts down the point defence net in his {{Lawful Stupid}}ity, allowing an antiship missile to get through and hit the carrier they were supposed to be protecting. Said misfired missile had actually exploded and was tumbling back towards the launcher - keeping the other launch cells closed was a prudent thing to do; keeping on firing might have risked BOTH ships.

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* In the DaleBrown Creator/DaleBrown novel ''Sky Masters'', an inexperienced Captain second-guesses his air defence expert and, when one anti-air missile misfires, shuts down the point defence net in his {{Lawful Stupid}}ity, allowing an antiship missile to get through and hit the carrier they were supposed to be protecting. Said misfired missile had actually exploded and was tumbling back towards the launcher - keeping the other launch cells closed was a prudent thing to do; keeping on firing might have risked BOTH ships.
12th Jan '17 9:27:43 AM CurledUpWithDakka
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** Except perhaps Major --- De Coverley, he's more of a MemeticBadass with an awe-inspiring reputation and fearsome appearance, but no real authority beyond renting apartments. [[spoiler: Like anyone who's not a complete bastard, he dies or disappears.]]

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** Except perhaps Major --- -- De Coverley, he's more of a MemeticBadass with an awe-inspiring reputation and fearsome appearance, but no real authority beyond renting apartments. [[spoiler: Like [[spoiler:Like anyone who's not a complete bastard, he dies or disappears.]]



* General Lord Ronald Rust from the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' novels doesn't actually get shot by his own men in ''Discworld/{{Jingo}}'', but his overbearing superiority and tactical incompetence make it very tempting. As a captain in ''Discworld/NightWatch'', he is knocked him unconscious by his own men when he orders them to fire on civilians.

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* General Lord Ronald Rust from the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' novels doesn't actually get shot by his own men in ''Discworld/{{Jingo}}'', but his overbearing superiority and tactical incompetence make it very tempting. As a captain in ''Discworld/NightWatch'', he is knocked him unconscious by his own men when he orders them to fire on civilians.



** Lieutenant Weems from ''Knee-Deep in the Dead''. He was so incompetent and cowardly that he ordered his men to fire on a bunch of harmless monks protesting their war efforts, mistaking them for suicide bombers even after one of his scout Arlene told him they were harmless. Fly decked him for that, and that's why he is stuck on suspension in the cafeteria on Phobos when everything goes to Hell. Throughout the novel Fly has unflattering thoughts about Weems, believing that he's the kind of guy who would side with the alien invaders if it meant saving his own skin. [[spoiler: Fly finds the bodies of Weems and another soldier who had entered a suicide pact after the aliens trapped them in a FateWorseThanDeath by ''fusing their heads together'', after that he feels too much pity to hate the man anymore]].

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** Lieutenant Weems from ''Knee-Deep in the Dead''. He was so incompetent and cowardly that he ordered his men to fire on a bunch of harmless monks protesting their war efforts, mistaking them for suicide bombers even after one of his scout Arlene told him they were harmless. Fly decked him for that, and that's why he is stuck on suspension in the cafeteria on Phobos when everything goes to Hell. Throughout the novel Fly has unflattering thoughts about Weems, believing that he's the kind of guy who would side with the alien invaders if it meant saving his own skin. [[spoiler: Fly [[spoiler:Fly finds the bodies of Weems and another soldier who had entered a suicide pact after the aliens trapped them in a FateWorseThanDeath by ''fusing their heads together'', after that he feels too much pity to hate the man anymore]].



* A couple generals in Urtho's army in ''[[Literature/HeraldsOfValdemar The Black Gryphon]]''. Troops of all species dread being placed under their command because they're known for using tactics which would be gloriously victorious if they ever worked, but since they never work, are instead suicidally stupid. [[spoiler: It eventually turns out they're traitors, and they plan on losing every time.]]

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* A couple generals in Urtho's army in ''[[Literature/HeraldsOfValdemar The Black Gryphon]]''. Troops of all species dread being placed under their command because they're known for using tactics which would be gloriously victorious if they ever worked, but since they never work, are instead suicidally stupid. [[spoiler: It [[spoiler:It eventually turns out they're traitors, and they plan on losing every time.]]



** He does show merit as a leader during several moments in season 8, most notably when [[spoiler: he trusts Grif to help him take down Agent Washington, and later to help him rescue The Alpha device and take down The Meta.]]

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** He does show merit as a leader during several moments in season 8, most notably when [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he trusts Grif to help him take down Agent Washington, and later to help him rescue The Alpha device and take down The Meta.]]



** Lieutenant Colonel Ford attempts to land his plane on Sand Island despite the island being under attack and being told to wave off by the base. When Chopper lets slip that he thinks he's completely nuts and/or stupid, Ford threatens to write him up when he lands. [[spoiler: It gets cut off when an enemy plane shoots him down]].
* Admiral Greyfield of ''VideoGame/AdvanceWars: Days of Ruin''. A complete coward and a sub par commander who's greatest skills are taking credit for victories, and shifting blame for loses. He threatens executions for any failure to follow his orders to the letter, especially the order to win the battle. His cowardice is so much that he relentlessly hunts down any that don't adhere to absolute rule no matter how many of his own men are sacrificed or caught in the blast of the super weapon used to [[spoiler: [[NoKillLikeOverkill kill a single dissenting captain]]]], even resorting to executing enemies after surrender.

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** Lieutenant Colonel Ford attempts to land his plane on Sand Island despite the island being under attack and being told to wave off by the base. When Chopper lets slip that he thinks he's completely nuts and/or stupid, Ford threatens to write him up when he lands. [[spoiler: It [[spoiler:It gets cut off when an enemy plane shoots him down]].
* Admiral Greyfield of ''VideoGame/AdvanceWars: Days of Ruin''. A complete coward and a sub par commander who's greatest skills are taking credit for victories, and shifting blame for loses. He threatens executions for any failure to follow his orders to the letter, especially the order to win the battle. His cowardice is so much that he relentlessly hunts down any that don't adhere to absolute rule no matter how many of his own men are sacrificed or caught in the blast of the super weapon used to [[spoiler: [[NoKillLikeOverkill [[spoiler:[[NoKillLikeOverkill kill a single dissenting captain]]]], even resorting to executing enemies after surrender.



* Lt. Cole Phelps of ''VideoGame/LANoire'' is such a Niedermeyer that it actually winds up driving most of the game's plot. Cole [[FreakOut being paralysed with fear at a convenient moment]] ensured that he was the last man standing after a night fighting the Japanese on Okinawa, which made him a war hero and he rose rapidly through the LAPD as a result. His Marines, infuriated at this, decided to steal massive crates of guns and drugs from the military because they thought they deserved to get rewarded as well. [[spoiler: Cole's order to burn out an enemy cave that turned out to be a field hospital gives one of his men massive PTSD and he is later revealed as the serial arsonist. This also so enrages the unit's medic that he actually shoots Cole in the back and later goes on to lead the aforementioned heist]].

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* Lt. Cole Phelps of ''VideoGame/LANoire'' is such a Niedermeyer that it actually winds up driving most of the game's plot. Cole [[FreakOut being paralysed with fear at a convenient moment]] ensured that he was the last man standing after a night fighting the Japanese on Okinawa, which made him a war hero and he rose rapidly through the LAPD as a result. His Marines, infuriated at this, decided to steal massive crates of guns and drugs from the military because they thought they deserved to get rewarded as well. [[spoiler: Cole's [[spoiler:Cole's order to burn out an enemy cave that turned out to be a field hospital gives one of his men massive PTSD and he is later revealed as the serial arsonist. This also so enrages the unit's medic that he actually shoots Cole in the back and later goes on to lead the aforementioned heist]].



* Captain Bannon from ''VideoGame/WorldInConflict'' is this trope to a T, panicking when faced with opposition his men should be able to handle, ''whining'' when fighting at a disadvantage instead of focusing on how to keep the fight going favorably, deriding the player's character for his competence, and ''shooting enemy infantry'' who were trying to convey their wish to surrender by waving white flags. In the end, however, he becomes arguably the most heroic character among the Americans followed by the narrative, [[spoiler: volunteering to sacrifice himself to a friendly nuclear weapon so the approaching enemy will plow towards him into the blast radius, as retreating would've clued the Soviets in that something was wrong.]]

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* Captain Bannon from ''VideoGame/WorldInConflict'' is this trope to a T, panicking when faced with opposition his men should be able to handle, ''whining'' when fighting at a disadvantage instead of focusing on how to keep the fight going favorably, deriding the player's character for his competence, and ''shooting enemy infantry'' who were trying to convey their wish to surrender by waving white flags. In the end, however, he becomes arguably the most heroic character among the Americans followed by the narrative, [[spoiler: volunteering [[spoiler:volunteering to sacrifice himself to a friendly nuclear weapon so the approaching enemy will plow towards him into the blast radius, as retreating would've clued the Soviets in that something was wrong.]]
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.TheNeidermeyer