History Main / TheExtremistWasRight

22nd Apr '17 4:49:57 PM nombretomado
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* Jowy Atreides in ''SuikodenII'' joined the other side in a complicated plan to kill Luca Blight. This resulted in quite a few massacres and an entire city getting their souls sacrificed. However, Luca Blight is ''literally'' a OneManArmy and it's... questionable if his RasputinianDeath would have been possible if he had not done so.

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* Jowy Atreides in ''SuikodenII'' ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'' joined the other side in a complicated plan to kill Luca Blight. This resulted in quite a few massacres and an entire city getting their souls sacrificed. However, Luca Blight is ''literally'' a OneManArmy and it's... questionable if his RasputinianDeath would have been possible if he had not done so.
9th Apr '17 1:09:31 AM Euodiachloris
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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' [[ZigZaggingTrope has a mixed approach]] towards this trope. Beside the fact that, no matter what the characters do, [[CrapsackWorld Westeros]] keeps ''[[FromBadToWorse getting worse]]'', characters who take a ruthless approach to their problems tend to have better results than moderate ones.

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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' [[ZigZaggingTrope has a mixed approach]] towards this trope. Beside the fact that, no matter what the characters do, [[CrapsackWorld Westeros]] keeps ''[[FromBadToWorse getting worse]]'', characters who take a ruthless approach to their problems tend ''tend'' to have rather better results than those who try moderate ones.ones or simply hit the half-measures. However, the series is quick to point out that well-designed and justified ruthlessness can fall apart if challenged from an unexpected or unanticipated angle. Justifications are only as good as your intel.
5th Apr '17 7:11:27 PM Materioptikon
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* ComicBook/AmandaWaller has transformed Belle Reve Penitentiary into a monstrous fortress for the worst of the worst, has zero hesitation in recruiting vile criminals with the very real threat of nanoscopic bombs in their bloodstream, and demands and gets the same brutal discipline from assassins and assistants. She's also the single person capable of keeping the Suicide Squad in business and damn the person who dares threaten her control.

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* ComicBook/AmandaWaller has transformed Belle Reve Penitentiary into a monstrous fortress for the worst of the worst, has zero hesitation in recruiting vile criminals supervillains with the very real threat of nanoscopic bombs in their bloodstream, and demands and gets the same brutal discipline from assassins and assistants. She's also the single person capable of keeping the Suicide Squad in business and in line, and damn the person who dares threaten her control.
5th Apr '17 7:10:46 PM Materioptikon
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* ComicBook/AmandaWaller has transformed Belle Reve Penitentiary into a monstrous fortress for the worst of the worst, has zero hesitation in recruiting vile criminals with the very real threat of nanoscopic bombs in their bloodstream, and demands and gets the same brutal discipline from assassins and assistants. She's also the single person capable of keeping the Suicide Squad in business and damn the person who dares threaten her control.
3rd Apr '17 7:40:17 PM DVB
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** In ''Film/{{Thor}}'', Loki engineers Thor's banishment to Earth because he felt he was unfit to one day take over as ruler of Asgard, something that is shown to most definitely be ''true'' at the start of the film. [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Unfortunately for Loki]], being banished to Earth and stripped of his powers was exactly the kick in the backside that Thor needed to lose his hot-headed BoisterousBruiser ways, learn the value of [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure patience and restraint]], as well as some much needed [[HumbleHero humility]]. As a result, by the end of the film Thor has shifted from a RoyalBrat to a WisePrince, while Loki ended up JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope into the EvilPrince, making it clear to everyone who should be the next king.
** And in ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' this gets something between inverted and played with: facing Odin for his actions on Earth in the ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', Loki claims he is merely following in the footsteps of Odin's father Bor and of Odin himself, and that he would have been more suited to the crown than Thor. Notably, Odin doesn't ''dispute'' this so much as point out that Loki is a war criminal for slaughtering civilians on Earth. And Odin's actions for the rest of the film, including his [[WeHaveReserves cold-blooded strategy]] for [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide dealing with the Dark Elves]], makes this clear to Thor. Thor realizes that he'd rather be a good man, protecting the innocent and doing what's right, instead of a king who'd have to be willing to sacrifice others and other pragmatic decisions. So once again Loki gets proven right, this time not because Thor wasn't ready, but because Thor realizes he wants to be a better person than a king can be.
** In ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', to counter Ultron and his ability to jump his consciousness into the internet, Tony hatches a mad science plan to create another A.I. to upload in an artificial body. This leads Captain America and the twins to attack him to prevent the upload, but in the end it was the Vision that was key to permanently defeating Ultron.

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** In ''Film/{{Thor}}'', Loki engineers Thor's banishment to Earth because he felt he was unfit to one day take over as ruler of Asgard, something that is shown to most definitely be ''true'' at the start of the film. [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Unfortunately for Loki]], being banished to Earth and stripped of his powers was exactly the kick in the backside that Thor needed to lose temper his hot-headed BoisterousBruiser ways, learn the value of attitude with [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure patience and restraint]], as well as some much needed [[HumbleHero humility]]. As a result, by the end of the film Thor has shifted from a RoyalBrat to a WisePrince, while Loki ended up JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope into the EvilPrince, making it clear to everyone who should be the next king.
** And in ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' this gets something between inverted and played with: the trope becomes PlayedWith to where it could almost be inverted: facing Odin for his actions on Earth in the ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', Loki claims he is merely following in the footsteps of Odin's father Bor father, Bor, and of Odin himself, and that he would have been more suited to the crown than Thor. Notably, Odin doesn't ''dispute'' this so much as point out that Loki is a war criminal for slaughtering civilians on Earth. And Odin's actions for the rest of the film, including his [[WeHaveReserves cold-blooded strategy]] for [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide dealing with the Dark Elves]], makes this clear to Thor. Thor realizes that he'd rather be a good man, and heroic person, protecting the innocent and doing what's right, instead of a king who'd have to be willing to sacrifice others and other pragmatic decisions. So once again Loki gets proven right, this time not because right of Thor wasn't ready, bring unfit, but because for opposite reasons, Thor realizes he wants wanted to be a better person than a king can be.
king.
** In ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', to counter Ultron and his ability to jump his consciousness into the internet, Tony hatches a mad science plan to create another A.I. to upload in an artificial body. This leads Captain America and the twins to attack him to prevent the upload, upload (since it was a similar scheme that created Ultron in the first place), but in the end it was the Vision that was key to permanently defeating Ultron.
31st Mar '17 11:14:38 AM adbrown
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** Graff and Rackham also have shades of this trope.
*** A bit unusually for this trope, Graff (and probably Rackham as well) is fully aware of how insane and extreme his methods look to outsiders (i.e. everyone but him). Graff doesn't bother sugar coating anything, he doesn't even guarantee his plan will work. He just thinks it's the fastest way to assure there's a leader ready for the next war against the Buggers.

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** Graff and Rackham also have shades of this trope.
*** A bit unusually for this trope,
trope. Graff (and probably at least (possibly Rackham as well) is fully aware of how insane and extreme his methods look to outsiders (i.e. everyone but him). Graff doesn't bother sugar coating anything, he doesn't even guarantee his plan will work. work, and he's keenly aware that even if it does, he's probably going to be tried for war crimes. He just thinks believes it's the fastest only way to assure there's a leader ready for the next war against the Buggers.
14th Mar '17 2:52:32 PM StClair
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** There is also the case of Thomas Riker, Will Riker's double created in a TeleporterAccident. He uses Will's credentials to hijack the ''Defiant'' in an attempt to prove that the Cardassian [[StateSec Obsidian Order]] is secretly building a war fleet in a remote system. Sisko and Dukat end up having to work together to capture him, but Sisko notes that Riker was right. Even the cantankerous [[BigBad Dukat]] is eager to cut a deal to spare Riker's life in exchange for his surrender once they discover (to Dukat's chagrin) that the Obsidian Order is in possession of warships it has no legal right to be building and operating.

to:

** There is also the case of Thomas Riker, Will Riker's double created in a TeleporterAccident. He uses Will's credentials to hijack the ''Defiant'' in an attempt to prove that the Cardassian [[StateSec Obsidian Order]] is secretly building a war fleet in a remote system. Sisko and Dukat end up having to work together to capture him, but Sisko notes that Riker was right. Even the cantankerous [[BigBad Dukat]] is eager to cut a deal to spare Riker's life in exchange for his surrender once they discover (to Dukat's chagrin) that the Obsidian Order is in possession of warships it has no legal right to be building and operating.[[note]]All told, the whole thing plays out like a CallBack to "The Wounded" (see below), complete with TNG guest star; and of course, Marc Alaimo played a Cardassian in both.[[/note]]
* In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Wounded", Captain Picard is assigned to stop Captain Benjamin Maxwell, who has been conducting unauthorized attacks against the Cardassians because he suspects that they are re-arming despite their peace treaty with the Federation. Picard succeeds in stopping Maxwell, but ultimately notes to Cardassian Gul Macet that despite his own claims, Maxwell was indeed right about a re-arming Cardassian fleet.



* In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "The Wounded", Captain Picard is assigned to stop Captain Benjamin Maxwell, who has been conducting unauthorized attacks against the Cardassians because he suspects that they are re-arming despite their peace treaty with the Federation. Picard succeeds in stopping Maxwell, but ultimately notes to Cardassian Gul Macet that despite his own claims, Maxwell was indeed right about a re-arming Cardassian fleet.
9th Mar '17 10:09:23 AM akylae
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* Emperor Ezar in the Literature/VorkosiganSaga, who first started an unprovoked war and then lost it deliberately, in the process almost driving his most loyal and incorruptible supporter to suicide, killing thousands and bringing about the rape of several women as a by-product. The reason? TheEmperor had evidence that his son was completely [[TheCaligula insane]] and corrupt, and believed the alternative would be to ruin the realm with a bloody civil war just to get rid of him. As Ezar himself was put on the throne by a bloody civil war to get rid of an insane emperor, he knew ''exactly'' how bad that would get. As a bonus, it also discredited and largely purged the overly militaristic, expansionist faction as well. It weakened the nasty [[StateSec Ministry of Political Education]] to the point where Ezar was able to destroy it with a staged riot. In the end, Barrayar did evolve into a period of peace, prosperity and stability, but Ezar died praying there was no afterlife, because he also knew ''exactly'' what he deserved.

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* Emperor Ezar in the Literature/VorkosiganSaga, who first started an unprovoked war and then lost it deliberately, in the process almost driving his most loyal and incorruptible supporter to suicide, killing thousands and bringing about the rape of several women as a by-product. The reason? TheEmperor had evidence that his son was completely [[TheCaligula insane]] and corrupt, and believed the alternative would be to ruin the realm with a bloody civil war just to get rid of him. As Ezar himself was put on the throne by a bloody civil war to get rid of an insane emperor, he knew ''exactly'' how bad that would get. As a bonus, it also purged and discredited and largely purged the overly militaristic, expansionist faction as well. It well, and weakened the nasty [[StateSec Ministry of Political Education]] to the point where Ezar was able to destroy it with a staged riot. In the end, Barrayar did evolve into a period of peace, prosperity and stability, but Ezar died praying there was no afterlife, because he also knew ''exactly'' what he deserved.
9th Mar '17 10:06:44 AM akylae
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* Emperor Ezar in the Literature/VorkosiganSaga , who first started an unprovoked war and then lost it deliberately, in the process almost driving his most loyal and incorruptible supporter to suicide, killing thousands and bringing about the rape of several women as a by-product. The reason? TheEmperor believed(not implausibly) that his son was so completely [[TheCaligula insane]] and corrupt that the only other choice would be to ruin the realm with a bloody civil war just to get rid of him. As Ezar himself was put on the throne by a bloody civil war to get rid of an insane emperor, he knew ''exactly'' how bad that would get. As a bonus, it also discredited and largely purged the overly militaristic, expansionist faction as well. It weakened the nasty [[StateSec Ministry of Political Education]] to the point where Ezar was able to destroy it with a staged riot. As the final result was that Barrayar in fact was able to evolve into a period of peace, prosperity, and stability, one might well say he was right. Sort of.

to:

* Emperor Ezar in the Literature/VorkosiganSaga , Literature/VorkosiganSaga, who first started an unprovoked war and then lost it deliberately, in the process almost driving his most loyal and incorruptible supporter to suicide, killing thousands and bringing about the rape of several women as a by-product. The reason? TheEmperor believed(not implausibly) had evidence that his son was so completely [[TheCaligula insane]] and corrupt that corrupt, and believed the only other choice alternative would be to ruin the realm with a bloody civil war just to get rid of him. As Ezar himself was put on the throne by a bloody civil war to get rid of an insane emperor, he knew ''exactly'' how bad that would get. As a bonus, it also discredited and largely purged the overly militaristic, expansionist faction as well. It weakened the nasty [[StateSec Ministry of Political Education]] to the point where Ezar was able to destroy it with a staged riot. As In the final result was that end, Barrayar in fact was able to did evolve into a period of peace, prosperity, prosperity and stability, one might well say he but Ezar died praying there was right. Sort of.no afterlife, because he also knew ''exactly'' what he deserved.
22nd Feb '17 12:36:13 PM Nakuyabi
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** In the episode ''In the Pale Moonlight'', [[TheCaptain Sisko]] decides to enlist [[MagnificentBastard Garak]] to help in getting the Romulans to join the Federation in fighting the Dominion. Garak's plan is... morally questionable, to say the least, and causes Sisko to question what's more important to him: his values or gaining valuable allies and saving more lives? In the end, Garak's plan works, and Sisko, [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone despite reservations]], decides to keep the truth a secret.
** There is also the case of Tom Riker, Will Riker's double created in a TeleporterAccident. He uses Will's credentials to hijack the ''Defiant'' in an attempt to prove that the Cardassian [[StateSec Obsidian Order]] is secretly building a fleet in a remote system. He's eventually stopped by Sisko, but Sisko notes that Riker was right. Even Dukat admits that the Obsidian Order has no legal right to own and operate warships.

to:

** In the episode ''In the Pale Moonlight'', [[TheCaptain Sisko]] decides to enlist [[MagnificentBastard Garak]] to help in getting the Romulans to join the Federation in fighting the Dominion. Garak's plan is... morally questionable, to say the least, and causes Sisko to question what's more important to him: his values ("the finer points of morality") or gaining valuable allies and saving more lives? In the end, Garak's plan works, and Sisko, [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone [[HeelRealization despite reservations]], [[IDidWhatIHadToDo decides to keep the truth a secret.
secret]].
** There is also the case of Tom Thomas Riker, Will Riker's double created in a TeleporterAccident. He uses Will's credentials to hijack the ''Defiant'' in an attempt to prove that the Cardassian [[StateSec Obsidian Order]] is secretly building a war fleet in a remote system. He's eventually stopped by Sisko, Sisko and Dukat end up having to work together to capture him, but Sisko notes that Riker was right. Even Dukat admits the cantankerous [[BigBad Dukat]] is eager to cut a deal to spare Riker's life in exchange for his surrender once they discover (to Dukat's chagrin) that the Obsidian Order is in possession of warships it has no legal right to own be building and operate warships.operating.
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