History Main / TheDungAges

11th Jul '17 7:32:00 PM Sharysa
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* Averted with many of the Celtic cultures, who adored bathing and grooming for both women AND men since the AgentPeacock trope was in full force. Unlike many other mythologies, bathing/grooming is ''frequently'' mentioned, manifesting in the prevalence of OutdoorBathPeeping in folktales.
10th Jul '17 4:31:54 AM jormis29
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Creator/RobertBresson's 1974 film ''Lancelot Du Lac'', in many ways, instigated this trend in film. Most people do not realize that ''Monty Python and the Holy Grail'' is a send up of Lancelot du Lac, but the grime and hyperviolence (as in the Black Knight scene especially) are directly related to the earlier film.

to:

* Creator/RobertBresson's 1974 film ''Lancelot Du Lac'', ''Film/LancelotDuLac'', in many ways, instigated this trend in film. Most people do not realize that ''Monty Python and the Holy Grail'' is a send up of Lancelot du Lac, but the grime and hyperviolence (as in the Black Knight scene especially) are directly related to the earlier film.
27th Jun '17 9:31:19 PM angie710
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* On ''Series/GameOfThrones'', Westeros under King Joffrey is this, mainly because Joffrey doesn't give a damn about anyone but...well...Joffrey, and doesn't see to it that his subjects have adequate food or infrastructure.
27th Jun '17 9:16:19 PM angie710
Is there an issue? Send a Message


This trope is more or less becoming an UndeadHorseTrope due to history research. In reality, the Middle Ages were a rather cleanly era; the Roman bathing culture survived well to the 14th century and public saunas were commonplace everywhere in Europe.[[note]]The Black Death was also the death of bathing culture, since fear of pestilence closed the public baths. This led to the genuinely filthy hygiene of the Renaissance.[[/note]] In rural areas away from the urban centers, people bathed regularly in ponds or streams, and, yes, they had toothbrushes. As can be seen even in the earthy village paintings of Pieter Breughel, housewives prided themselves on spotless white, starched linen, and a woman who didn't maintain that standard was a "slut."[[note]]Meaning, at the time, not "a promiscuous woman" but "a slovenly woman, a poor housekeeper." Over time the "bad wife" definition came to include infidelity, which eventually took over the word.[[/note]] On human excretion, urine was a valuable commodity on tanning and dyeing, and manure was widely used as fertilizer. In the RealLife, the ''actual'' Dung Ages were the Renaissance and the New Age following it: the spread of plague, syphilis and climate change (the end of the Medieval Warm Period) effectively killed the sauna culture everywhere in Europe except Scandinavia, mountainous areas, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia, and effectively put an end to any hygiene. Europe really recovered only with the spread of the modern sanitation in the 19th century, although bathing (now private rather than communal) at least made a comeback during the reign of the obsessively fastidious Louis XIV. [[note]]For a while, it was even fashionable for wealthy ladies to have their portraits painted in the bath![[/note]].

to:

This trope is more or less becoming an UndeadHorseTrope due to history research. In reality, the Middle Ages were a rather cleanly era; the Roman bathing culture survived well to the 14th century and public saunas were commonplace everywhere in Europe.[[note]]The Black Death was also the death of bathing culture, since fear of pestilence closed the public baths. This led to the genuinely filthy hygiene of the Renaissance.[[/note]] In rural areas away from the urban centers, people bathed regularly in ponds or streams, and, yes, they had toothbrushes. As can be seen even in the earthy village paintings of Pieter Breughel, housewives prided themselves on spotless white, starched linen, and a woman who didn't maintain that standard was a "slut."[[note]]Meaning, at the time, not "a promiscuous woman" but "a slovenly woman, a poor housekeeper." Over time the "bad wife" definition came to include infidelity, which eventually took over the word.[[/note]] On human excretion, [[SolidGoldPoop urine was a valuable commodity on tanning and dyeing, and manure was widely used as fertilizer.fertilizer]]. In the RealLife, the ''actual'' Dung Ages were the Renaissance and the New Age following it: the spread of plague, syphilis and climate change (the end of the Medieval Warm Period) effectively killed the sauna culture everywhere in Europe except Scandinavia, mountainous areas, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia, and effectively put an end to any hygiene. Europe really recovered only with the spread of the modern sanitation in the 19th century, although bathing (now private rather than communal) at least made a comeback during the reign of the obsessively fastidious Louis XIV. [[note]]For a while, it was even fashionable for wealthy ladies to have their portraits painted in the bath![[/note]].
23rd Jun '17 5:09:36 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* With all the aesthetic impression on how clean Imperial Japan may look, surprisingly the Heian era turned out to be this, or least for the Heian court. Despite how aesthetics the Heian imperial court looks, some historians point out that the living conditions would considered to be unsanitary by today's standards and rival that of the Renaissance period, given that seldom mention of bathing and the frequent uses of perfume.
[[http://figal-sensei.org/hist157/Textbook/Higuchi.htm See here for more details.]]

to:

* With all the aesthetic impression on how clean Imperial Japan may look, surprisingly the Heian era turned out to be this, or least for the Heian court. Despite how aesthetics the Heian imperial court looks, some historians point out that the living conditions would considered to be unsanitary by today's standards and rival that of the Renaissance period, given that seldom mention of bathing and the frequent uses of perfume.
[[http://figal-sensei.org/hist157/Textbook/Higuchi.htm See here for more details.]]
]] Despite how aesthetics the Heian imperial court looks, some historians point out that the living conditions would considered to be unsanitary by today's standards and rival that of the Renaissance period, given that seldom mention of bathing and the frequent uses of perfume.
23rd Jun '17 5:08:55 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

23rd Jun '17 5:08:22 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* With all the aesthetic impression on how clean Imperial Japan may look, surprisingly the Heian era turned out to be this, or least for the Heian court. Despite how aesthetics the Heian imperial court looks, some historians point out that the living conditions would considered to be unsanitary by today's standards and rival that of the Renaissance period, given that seldom mention of bathing and the frequent uses of perfume.
[[http://figal-sensei.org/hist157/Textbook/Higuchi.htm See here for more details.]]
4th Jun '17 12:32:40 PM Jormungar
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* It is a commonly repeated belief that bathing was considered sinful during the Middle Ages. This is not entirely true; what the Church disapproved of was not bathing, but ''bathhouses'' which were holdovers from the Roman Empire, and not without reason. In Greek and Roman times, bathing was a social activity when people would go to public bathhouses and gymnasiums not just to keep clean, but to relax, socialize with peers, and also to engage in prostitution. These were seen as places of decadence, with opponents describing them as brothels in all but name (and this being Ancient Rome and Greece, would have involved homosexuality as well). The fact is many people in the Middle Ages ''did'' bathe, but mostly at home or in streams. It was actually ''after'' the Middle Ages in the supposedly "enlightened" Renaissance and the Early Modern Period that bathing and hygiene standards declined.

to:

* It is a commonly repeated belief that bathing was considered sinful during the Middle Ages. This is not entirely true; what the Church disapproved of was not bathing, but ''bathhouses'' ''bathhouses'', which were holdovers from the Roman Empire, and not without reason. In Greek and Roman times, bathing was a social activity when people would go to public bathhouses and gymnasiums not just to keep clean, but to relax, socialize with peers, and also to engage in prostitution. These were seen as places of decadence, with opponents describing them as brothels in all but name (and this being Ancient Rome and Greece, would have involved homosexuality as well). The fact is many people in the Middle Ages ''did'' bathe, but mostly at home or in streams. It was actually ''after'' the Middle Ages in the supposedly "enlightened" Renaissance and the Early Modern Period that bathing and hygiene standards declined.
4th Jun '17 12:32:00 PM Jormungar
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The perception then was bathing was sinful. In Roman Empire times, bathing was a social activity when people would go to public bathhouses and gymnasiums not just to keep clean, but also to relax, socialize with peers, and engage in prostitution (in both Roman and Greek society, it was quite acceptable to be naked in public places established for that purpose, at least in single-sex company, which it always was; 'gymnasium' originally means 'place to be naked', and also gave them the word 'gymnologise', to talk or debate while naked). These places were seen as places of decadences (opponents claiming they were essentially swinger clubs or brothels in all but name), together with the gladiatorial games. Hence, Queen Isabella and some saints got the "holy" credit for not bathing.
** During the 1st century AD, men and women started bathing together in the bathhouses. It was really during this time that there was a strong link between sex and bathing in Rome.
** People in the middle ages weren't necessarily worse for the wear for missing out on the public baths. As the vast majority of Roman baths were un-chlorinated bodies of rarely-changed, standing water frequented by large groups of people with questionable hygiene, the cleanliness they offered was only skin deep. Especially since [[http://www.innominatesociety.com/Articles/Death%20and%20Disease%20in%20Ancient%20Rome.htm sick people were encouraged]] to visit them.
** However, instead of bathing, people kept clean by becoming more diligent with clothes-washing, with particularly strong attention paid to the linen underclothes -- it was said that linen draws out bad humors from the body and had to be cleaned well and often.
* After the fall of the Roman Empire, bringing in the [[DarkAgeEurope Dark Ages]], Rome might as well have been known as Malaria City.
** There were plenty of disease outbreaks during the era of the Roman Empire. They didn't call July, August, September, and October [[http://www.innominatesociety.com/Articles/Death%20and%20Disease%20in%20Ancient%20Rome.htm "sickly"]] for nothing. Residents were told to go somewhere else, if at all possible, for those months. 30,000 Roman residents died ''every year''. Bathhouses and aqueducts didn't protect against malaria: it is estimated that over half of all Roman children became infected during summers when the Roman Empire was at the height of its power.
* Even better, up until the late 1400s and early 1500s, there were still a few public baths in operation in major European cities and [[MedievalStasis the collective memory of the people drove them to still practice the Roman custom of bathing]], infrequently as they could afford to, and supposedly not knowing ''why'' would they do it in the first place. It can be said The Dung Ages come immediately ''after'' the end of the Middle Ages proper.
** [[http://www4.gvsu.edu/wrightd/Honors%20216/GreatFamineandBlackDeath.htm Quote]]: ''The conversion of forest into arable land had reduced the supply of wood, however, and the bath houses began to shut down because of the expense of heating the water. They tried using coal, but decided that burning coal gave off unhealthy fumes and abandoned the use of the stuff. By the mid-fourteenth century, only the rich could afford to bathe during the cold Winter months, and most of the population was dirty most of the time.''

to:

* The perception then was It is a commonly repeated belief that bathing was sinful. In considered sinful during the Middle Ages. This is not entirely true; what the Church disapproved of was not bathing, but ''bathhouses'' which were holdovers from the Roman Empire Empire, and not without reason. In Greek and Roman times, bathing was a social activity when people would go to public bathhouses and gymnasiums not just to keep clean, but also to relax, socialize with peers, and also to engage in prostitution (in both Roman and Greek society, it was quite acceptable to be naked in public places established for that purpose, at least in single-sex company, which it always was; 'gymnasium' originally means 'place to be naked', and also gave them the word 'gymnologise', to talk or debate while naked). prostitution. These places were seen as places of decadences (opponents claiming they were essentially swinger clubs or decadence, with opponents describing them as brothels in all but name), together with the gladiatorial games. Hence, Queen Isabella name (and this being Ancient Rome and some saints got the "holy" credit for not bathing.
** During the 1st century AD, men and women started bathing together
Greece, would have involved homosexuality as well). The fact is many people in the bathhouses. Middle Ages ''did'' bathe, but mostly at home or in streams. It was really during this time that there was a strong link between sex and bathing in Rome.
** People in the middle ages weren't necessarily worse for the wear for missing out on the public baths. As the vast majority of Roman baths were un-chlorinated bodies of rarely-changed, standing water frequented by large groups of people with questionable hygiene, the cleanliness they offered was only skin deep. Especially since [[http://www.innominatesociety.com/Articles/Death%20and%20Disease%20in%20Ancient%20Rome.htm sick people were encouraged]] to visit them.
** However, instead of bathing, people kept clean by becoming more diligent with clothes-washing, with particularly strong attention paid to the linen underclothes -- it was said that linen draws out bad humors from the body and had to be cleaned well and often.
* After the fall of the Roman Empire, bringing in the [[DarkAgeEurope Dark Ages]], Rome might as well have been known as Malaria City.
** There were plenty of disease outbreaks during the era of the Roman Empire. They didn't call July, August, September, and October [[http://www.innominatesociety.com/Articles/Death%20and%20Disease%20in%20Ancient%20Rome.htm "sickly"]] for nothing. Residents were told to go somewhere else, if at all possible, for those months. 30,000 Roman residents died ''every year''. Bathhouses and aqueducts didn't protect against malaria: it is estimated that over half of all Roman children became infected during summers when the Roman Empire was at the height of its power.
* Even better, up until the late 1400s and early 1500s, there were still a few public baths in operation in major European cities and [[MedievalStasis the collective memory of the people drove them to still practice the Roman custom of bathing]], infrequently as they could afford to, and supposedly not knowing ''why'' would they do it in the first place. It can be said The Dung Ages come immediately
actually ''after'' the end of the Middle Ages proper.
** [[http://www4.gvsu.edu/wrightd/Honors%20216/GreatFamineandBlackDeath.htm Quote]]: ''The conversion of forest into arable land had reduced
in the supply of wood, however, supposedly "enlightened" Renaissance and the bath houses began to shut down because of the expense of heating the water. They tried using coal, but decided Early Modern Period that burning coal gave off unhealthy fumes bathing and abandoned the use of the stuff. By the mid-fourteenth century, only the rich could afford to bathe during the cold Winter months, and most of the population was dirty most of the time.''hygiene standards declined.
4th Jun '17 12:05:57 PM Jormungar
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The perception then was bathing was sinful. In Roman Empire times, bathing was a social activity when people would go to public bathhouses and gymnasiums not just to keep clean, but also to relax, socialize with peers, and engage in prostitution (in both Roman and Greek society, it was quite acceptable to be naked in public places established for that purpose, at least in single-sex company, which it always was; 'gymnasium' originally means 'place to be naked', and also gave them the word 'gymnolologise', to talk or debate while naked). These places were seen as places of decadences (opponents claiming they were essentially swinger clubs or brothels in all but name), together with the gladiatorial games. Hence, Queen Isabella and some saints got the "holy" credit for not bathing.

to:

* The perception then was bathing was sinful. In Roman Empire times, bathing was a social activity when people would go to public bathhouses and gymnasiums not just to keep clean, but also to relax, socialize with peers, and engage in prostitution (in both Roman and Greek society, it was quite acceptable to be naked in public places established for that purpose, at least in single-sex company, which it always was; 'gymnasium' originally means 'place to be naked', and also gave them the word 'gymnolologise', 'gymnologise', to talk or debate while naked). These places were seen as places of decadences (opponents claiming they were essentially swinger clubs or brothels in all but name), together with the gladiatorial games. Hence, Queen Isabella and some saints got the "holy" credit for not bathing.
This list shows the last 10 events of 155. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.TheDungAges