History Main / TerminallyDependentSociety

17th Sep '17 6:07:37 PM nombretomado
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* ArthurCClarke's ''Literature/TheCityAndTheStars''. The Central Computer of Diaspar not only runs the city but actually creates its citizens' bodies using their stored memories. In a variation on this trope, the computer ''wants'' humans not to be dependent on it anymore, and has [[spoiler:been part of a millennia long gambit by one of its creators to create a human capable of wanting freedom.]]

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* ArthurCClarke's Creator/ArthurCClarke's ''Literature/TheCityAndTheStars''. The Central Computer of Diaspar not only runs the city but actually creates its citizens' bodies using their stored memories. In a variation on this trope, the computer ''wants'' humans not to be dependent on it anymore, and has [[spoiler:been part of a millennia long gambit by one of its creators to create a human capable of wanting freedom.]]
28th Aug '17 8:44:04 PM PaulA
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* In the short story ''[[Literature/TheOnesWhoWalkAwayFromOmelas The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas]]'' by UrsulaKLeGuin, the prosperity of the titular city is dependent on [[PoweredByAForsakenChild treating some poor kid like crap]]. If the child's suffering was ever alleviated, all of Omelas would suffer instead. Every citizen of Omelas is made aware of this terrible price. Most of them rationalize it away as something necessary for the greater good and live their lives to the fullest knowing the cost. And then there are those who decide it isn't worth it, and walk away from Omelas.

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* In the short story ''[[Literature/TheOnesWhoWalkAwayFromOmelas The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas]]'' "Literature/TheOnesWhoWalkAwayFromOmelas" by UrsulaKLeGuin, Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin, the prosperity of the titular city is dependent on [[PoweredByAForsakenChild treating some poor kid like crap]]. If the child's suffering was ever alleviated, all of Omelas would suffer instead. Every citizen of Omelas is made aware of this terrible price. Most of them rationalize it away as something necessary for the greater good and live their lives to the fullest knowing the cost. And then there are those who decide it isn't worth it, and walk away from Omelas.
28th Jul '17 1:44:45 AM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** Forge Worlds, as the name suggests, are [[EternalEngine Eternal Engines]] scaled up to the size of a planet, churning out the vast quantities of vehicles, weapons and equipment needed by the Imperium, with little to no space for growing food. [[CiaphasCain The Greater Good]] has one whose location allows it to forgo self-reliance in favor of more production: Guard regiments are alays stopping there to resupply and take care of defense, while food is imported, rationed, and not stored for maximum efficiency, resulting in riots when the approaching Tyranids scare off the deliveries.
* In the [[EarlyInstallmentWeirdness early editions]] of ''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'', humanity depended on irreplaceable FasterThanLightTravel-capable starships to travel as [[LostTechnology the knowledge and means]] to construct new ones was lost in almost [[ForeverWar 300 years of total war]]; a character in the early [[Franchise/BattleTechExpandedUniverse expanded universe]] mentions that philosophers and scientists ponder what will happen when the last jumpship's Kearny-Fuchida drive sputters to a halt. However, the scale of destruction of humanity's tech base [[ApocalypseNot was reduced to being merely crippling]] via RetCon and UnreliableNarrator in later editions when the writers realized the situation was unsustainable both from a plot point and economics point - can't sell new sourcebooks if there's no new mechs or starships!

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** Forge Worlds, as the name suggests, are [[EternalEngine Eternal Engines]] {{Eternal Engine}}s scaled up to the size of a planet, churning out the vast quantities of vehicles, weapons and equipment needed by the Imperium, with little to no space for growing food. [[CiaphasCain ''[[Literature/CiaphasCain The Greater Good]] Good]]'' has one whose location allows it to forgo self-reliance in favor of more production: Guard regiments are alays stopping there to resupply and take care of defense, while food is imported, rationed, and not stored for maximum efficiency, resulting in riots when the approaching Tyranids scare off the deliveries.
* In the [[EarlyInstallmentWeirdness early editions]] of ''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'', humanity depended on irreplaceable FasterThanLightTravel-capable starships to travel as [[LostTechnology the knowledge and means]] to construct new ones was lost in almost [[ForeverWar 300 years of total war]]; a character in the early [[Franchise/BattleTechExpandedUniverse expanded universe]] mentions that philosophers and scientists ponder what will happen when the last jumpship's Kearny-Fuchida drive sputters to a halt. However, the scale of destruction of humanity's tech base [[ApocalypseNot was reduced to being merely crippling]] via RetCon {{Retcon}} and UnreliableNarrator in later editions when the writers realized the situation was unsustainable both from a plot point and economics point - can't sell new sourcebooks if there's no new mechs or starships!
28th Jul '17 1:02:28 AM HotelCalifornia
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* The Haredi Jews in Israel consistently grow in number, and their children are pushed towards religious scholar success more than economic success - hence they're usually taught religious subjects almost exclusively, and their leaders are often vehemently opposed to getting them taught subjects such as English and mathematics. Thus they usually live in constant crippling poverty, relying mostly on the non-Haredi society’s taxpayer money for their meager pensions (each Haredi Jew gets just enough to live and support his family, but as they consistently grow in number this has a massive negative impact on Israeli society, as OECD reports show). Israeli Minister of Internal Affairs Eli Yishai (who is a Haredi Jew himself) once uttered a notoriously stupid statement saying that a completely Haredi city is preposterous, as it would never be able to support itself. Fortunately, this situation is changing, as the State of Israel seems to be making efforts to incorporate them into the work force and into military service, by trying to work out a ‘super-kosher’ solution for them.[[note]]They often avoid work and service not just to focus on their studies, but also because the conditions they have to work/serve in, such as working/serving alongside or maybe even ''under'' women, would go against the strictness of their religious rules; in case you were wondering, this is a problem mostly in Israel and not elsewhere because according to Jewish law, Jews have to be extra strict in the Land of Israel.[[/note]] You are more than welcome to [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment keep your opinions about how effective or earnest this is, or what the implications for women or non-Jews would be, to yourself]].

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* The Haredi Jews in Israel consistently grow in number, and their children are pushed towards religious scholar success more than economic success - hence they're usually taught religious subjects almost exclusively, and their leaders are often vehemently opposed to getting them taught subjects such as English and mathematics. Thus they usually live in constant crippling poverty, relying mostly on the non-Haredi society’s taxpayer money for their meager pensions (each Haredi Jew gets just enough to live and support his family, but as they consistently grow in number this has a massive negative impact on Israeli society, as OECD reports show). Israeli Minister of Internal Affairs Eli Yishai (who is a Haredi Jew himself) once uttered a notoriously stupid statement saying that a completely Haredi city is preposterous, as it would never be able to support itself. Fortunately, this situation is changing, as the State of Israel seems to be making efforts to incorporate them into the work force and into military service, by trying to work out a ‘super-kosher’ solution for them.[[note]]They often avoid work and service not just to focus on their studies, but also because the conditions they have to work/serve in, such as working/serving alongside or maybe even ''under'' women, would go against the strictness of their religious rules; in case you were wondering, this is a problem mostly in Israel and not elsewhere because according to Jewish law, Jews have to be extra strict in the Land of Israel.[[/note]] You are more than welcome to [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment keep your opinions about how effective or earnest this is, or what the implications for women or non-Jews would be, to yourself]].[[/note]]
10th Jul '17 12:52:35 PM ReaderAt2046
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* Hallendren in ''Literature/{{Warbreaker}}'' is a {{Downplayed}} example. While Hallendren could ''survive'' without the Tears of Edgli, the cheap dyes that can be manufactured from the flowers are the foundation of Hallendren's economic prosperity.
16th Jun '17 8:05:59 AM SorPepita
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** Forge Worlds, as the name suggests, are EternalEngines scaled up to the size of a planet, churning out the vast quantities of vehicles, weapons and equipment needed by the Imperium, with little to no space for growing food. [[CiaphasCain The Greater Good]] has one whose location allows it to forgo self-reliance in favor of more production: Guard regiments are alays stopping there to resupply and take care of defense, while food is imported, rationed, and not stored for maximum efficiency, resulting in riots when the approaching Tyranids scare off the deliveries.

to:

** Forge Worlds, as the name suggests, are EternalEngines [[EternalEngine Eternal Engines]] scaled up to the size of a planet, churning out the vast quantities of vehicles, weapons and equipment needed by the Imperium, with little to no space for growing food. [[CiaphasCain The Greater Good]] has one whose location allows it to forgo self-reliance in favor of more production: Guard regiments are alays stopping there to resupply and take care of defense, while food is imported, rationed, and not stored for maximum efficiency, resulting in riots when the approaching Tyranids scare off the deliveries.
9th Jun '17 8:21:26 AM Kalaong
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** A RealLife example of that happened in Ireland in the 19th century. With deaths from starvation and emigration, Ireland declined so much in population, that it still hasn't reached pre-famine population levels. Oh and among the people who emigrated due to the famine were the ancestors of one [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy John Fitzgerald Kennedy]]. Not quite a straight example, as the potato dependence was forced by outsiders even as the island was exporting tons of foods of all types; it's often considered an [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide engineered famine]].

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** A The [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Great Famine]] was a RealLife example of that happened in Ireland in the 19th century.example. With deaths from starvation and emigration, Ireland declined so much in population, that it still hasn't reached pre-famine population levels. Oh and among the people who emigrated due to the famine were the ancestors of one [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy John Fitzgerald Kennedy]]. Not quite a straight example, as the potato dependence was forced by outsiders even as the island was exporting tons of foods of all types; it's often considered an [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide engineered famine]].
4th Jun '17 3:13:10 PM Kalaong
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* Creator/LarryNiven all but codified the Terminally Dependent Society with his "State" series.

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* Creator/LarryNiven all but codified the Terminally Dependent Society throughout his work;
** In ''Fallen Angels'', an eco-socialist regime has come to power, and banned everything save "appropriate" technology. The catch is that no matter how many windmills and solar panels they build, it's nowhere near as efficient as good-old-fashioned coal and petroleum, leaving millions of people without political pull to freeze in the ice age brought on by the lack of particulate matter in the atmosphere.
** In ''Destiny's Road'', the planet Destiny's ecosystem is completely devoid of potassium, without which humans suffer brain damage and die. A ruling caste of "merchants" travel the titular Road trading potassium supplements for... pretty much everything they desire.
*** This setting is shared
with his "State" series.''The Legacy of Heorot'' and ''Beowulf's Children'', and '''the entire Solar System''' is ruled thus; Electricity? Concentrated vitamins? Construction materials? Interplanetary transport? All state monopolies.
** ''A World Out Of Time'', ''The Integral Trees'' and ''The Smoke Ring'' actually '''call''' their ruling body the State. It's a DiscussedTrope in ''[[Quotes/TerminallyDependentSociety A World Out Of Time]]''.
4th Jun '17 1:54:14 PM nombretomado
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* This is arguably the state of ''any'' civilization advanced enough for people to specialize, so that some are able to produce a surplus of food while others are able to spend their time on TVTropes rather than farming. From feudal aristocrats to Nobel scholars, a lot of people would starve to death if they couldn't get their food from someone else.

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* This is arguably the state of ''any'' civilization advanced enough for people to specialize, so that some are able to produce a surplus of food while others are able to spend their time on TVTropes Wiki/TVTropes rather than farming. From feudal aristocrats to Nobel scholars, a lot of people would starve to death if they couldn't get their food from someone else.
25th May '17 6:10:23 PM ImpudentInfidel
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** A RealLife example of that happened in Ireland in the 19th century. With deaths from starvation and emigration, Ireland declined so much in population, that it still hasn't reached pre-famine population levels. Oh and among the people who emigrated due to the famine were the ancestors of one [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy John Fitzgerald Kennedy]].

to:

** A RealLife example of that happened in Ireland in the 19th century. With deaths from starvation and emigration, Ireland declined so much in population, that it still hasn't reached pre-famine population levels. Oh and among the people who emigrated due to the famine were the ancestors of one [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy John Fitzgerald Kennedy]]. Not quite a straight example, as the potato dependence was forced by outsiders even as the island was exporting tons of foods of all types; it's often considered an [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide engineered famine]].
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