History Main / StrawManHasaPoint

10th Feb '16 10:24:50 AM Silverblade2
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** Another particularly frustrating example occurs in ''Order of the Phoenix'' with Cho Chang and Marietta Edgecomb. The latter [[spoiler: attempted to rat out Dumbledore's Army to Umbridge]], which caused her to develop permanent boils on her face that read "sneak," via a jinxed sign-up sheet set up by Hermione. We then later learn that Marietta did what she did because her mother worked for the Ministry of Magic and feared her involvement would get her fired, and knowing Umbridge's rather medieval disciplinary methods (that Harry experienced first-hand), worse probably would have happened to her, and yet she is painted as a worthless traitor for not being as strong-willed as Harry. Cho calls Hermione out on what she did as a "mean trick," and "mean trick" would be a massive {{Understatement}}. A hex that permanently disfigures somebody's face should be considered an act of Dark Magic. Not only that, but it's very hypocritical of Harry and his friends to think it was brilliant when one of the reasons they were rebelling against Umbridge was because she forced Harry and a few other students to repeatedly carve lines in their skin, which left a hardly noticeable scar. [[SarcasmMode Excellent]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop message]]: [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality mutilating somebody is bad unless the one doing it is a good guy]].
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** Another particularly frustrating example occurs in ''Order of the Phoenix'' with Cho Chang and Marietta Edgecomb. The latter [[spoiler: attempted to rat out Dumbledore's Army to Umbridge]], which caused her to develop permanent boils on her face that read "sneak," via a jinxed sign-up sheet set up by Hermione. We then later learn that Marietta did what she did because her mother worked for the Ministry of Magic and feared her involvement would get her fired, and knowing Umbridge's rather medieval disciplinary methods (that Harry experienced first-hand), worse probably would have happened to her, and yet she is painted as a worthless traitor for not being as strong-willed as Harry. Cho calls Hermione out on what she did as a "mean trick," and "mean trick" would be a massive {{Understatement}}. A hex that permanently disfigures somebody's face should be considered an act of Dark Magic. Not only that, but it's very hypocritical of Harry and his friends to think it was brilliant when one of the reasons they were rebelling against Umbridge was because she forced Harry and a few other students to repeatedly carve lines in their skin, which left a hardly noticeable scar. [[SarcasmMode Excellent]] Excellent [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop message]]: [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality mutilating somebody is bad unless the one doing it is a good guy]].

** In "[[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS01E10FortunateSon Fortunate Son]]", we're obviously supposed to disagree with the humans on the freighter who are trying to attack a base of Nausicaan pirates because the humans tortured a prisoner for information and the man in charge, Matthew Ryan, is clearly obsessed. However Ryan has a point. So far Starfleet and the Vulcans haven't done a single thing to stop the pirate attacks and the freighters have to endure constant attacks by far stronger pirates. The episode itself seems to unconsciously admit this when Archer can't think up a good counter to Ryan's complaints. Just '''two''' episodes after this episode is "Silent Enemy". A bunch of aliens repeatedly attack ''Enterprise'' without provocation, injure their crew members and make it very clear they aren't going to stop. Archer's response to someone doing this to ''his'' ship? Righteous anger and threatening to fight back with everything they've got! [[SarcasmMode Why does that sound familiar?]]
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** In "[[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS01E10FortunateSon Fortunate Son]]", we're obviously supposed to disagree with the humans on the freighter who are trying to attack a base of Nausicaan pirates because the humans tortured a prisoner for information and the man in charge, Matthew Ryan, is clearly obsessed. However Ryan has a point. So far Starfleet and the Vulcans haven't done a single thing to stop the pirate attacks and the freighters have to endure constant attacks by far stronger pirates. The episode itself seems to unconsciously admit this when Archer can't think up a good counter to Ryan's complaints. Just '''two''' episodes after this episode is "Silent Enemy". A bunch of aliens repeatedly attack ''Enterprise'' without provocation, injure their crew members and make it very clear they aren't going to stop. Archer's response to someone doing this to ''his'' ship? Righteous anger and threatening to fight back with everything they've got! [[SarcasmMode Why does that sound familiar?]]familiar?
9th Feb '16 4:28:48 PM Animeking1108
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* The Department of Homeland Security in ''Literature/LittleBrother'' are painted as being corrupt figures for putting the city under heavy surveillance and spying on TheHero, Marcus. However, their security measures were done after a major terrorist attack occurred, so they're really just doing their jobs to protect the country. Them keeping Marcus in custody for so long and spying on him is justified too, since all he did in the first few chapters of the book was make himself look suspicious. He used his hacking skills to cut school, and as his principal implied, he used hacking multiple times before to screw around in school. When he was being interrogated, he refused to hand his phone over to the BigBad. Not because he had anything incriminating or personal on it, [[HonorOverReason but because of the principle of privacy]]. Marcus is [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic supposed to be sympathized with for what he goes through]], but [[WhatAnIdiot most of his problems]] [[WhatAnIdiot are self-inflicted]], so he basically declared war on the government because they were inconveniencing him, or because of his own stupidity. Marcus's father is also depicted as a narrow-minded idiot for supporting the DHS's extreme actions, but Marcus failed to understand that [[AdultFear his parents were worried sick about him because he went missing during a terrorist attack]].
9th Feb '16 4:17:25 PM Animeking1108
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** Another particularly frustrating example occurs in ''Order of the Phoenix'' with Cho Chang and Marietta Edgecomb. The latter [[spoiler: attempted to rat out Dumbledore's Army to Umbridge]], which caused her to develop permanent boils on her face that read "sneak," via a jinxed sign-up sheet set up by Hermione. We then later learn that Marietta did what she did because her mother worked for the Ministry of Magic and feared her involvement would get her fired, and knowing Umbridge's rather medieval disciplinary methods (that Harry experienced first-hand), worse probably would have happened to her, and yet she is painted as a worthless traitor for not being as strong-willed as Harry. Cho calls Hermione out on what she did as a "mean trick," and "mean trick" would be a massive {{Understatement}}. A hex that permanently disfigures somebody's face should be considered an act of Dark Magic. Not only that, but it's very hypocritical of Harry and his friends to think it was brilliant when one of the reasons they were rebelling against Umbridge was because she forced Harry and a few other students to repeatedly carve lines in their skin, which left a hardly noticeable scar. [[SarcasmMode Excellent]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop message]]: [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality mutilating somebody is bad unless the one doing it is a good guy]].
4th Feb '16 11:59:55 AM dsneybuf
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Rick and Morty}}'': Morty's father and Rick's son-in-law Jerry Smith has been treated by everyone as an idiotic, incompetent StrawLoser. However, Jerry has valid points, notably in the season 2 finale "The Weeding Squanchers". While the family is hiding from the galactic federation, Jerry suggests to his family that they turn in Rick so that they may return back to Earth. Although his family opposed his plan, Jerry points out how everyone has been blindly following Rick even though he is a sociopath who treats everyone with disdain and screwed them over repeatedly. It's not hard to side with Jerry given how Rick is a wanted criminal who killed entire populations, sold weapons to hitmen, and [[BreakTheCutie indirectly traumatized Morty]]. [[spoiler: In a Deconstruction of this trope, Rick actually agrees with Jerry's argument and impersonate his son-in-law to turn himself in, but not before claiming that [[CrowningMomentOfFunny he (as Jerry) sucks buttholes and licks hairy ballsacks]]]]
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Rick and Morty}}'': Morty's father and Rick's son-in-law Jerry Smith has been treated by everyone as an idiotic, incompetent StrawLoser. However, Jerry has valid points, notably in the season 2 finale "The Weeding Squanchers". While the family is hiding from the galactic federation, Jerry suggests to his family that they turn in Rick so that they may return back to Earth. Although his family opposed his plan, Jerry points out how everyone has been blindly following Rick even though he is a sociopath who treats everyone with disdain and screwed them over repeatedly. It's not hard to side with Jerry given how Rick is a wanted criminal who killed entire populations, sold weapons to hitmen, and [[BreakTheCutie indirectly traumatized Morty]]. [[spoiler: In a Deconstruction of this trope, Rick actually agrees with Jerry's argument and impersonate his son-in-law to turn himself in, but not before claiming that [[CrowningMomentOfFunny he (as Jerry) sucks buttholes and licks hairy ballsacks]]]] ballsacks]]
4th Feb '16 3:10:31 AM FarseerLolotea
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* Happens many, many times in the infamous ''Webcomic/VeganArtbook'' which is to be expected when your [[StrawMan Straw Men]] are making statements like "farming isn't the same as genocide" and "artificially inseminating cows isn't comparable to rape".
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* Happens many, many times in the infamous ''Webcomic/VeganArtbook'' which is to be expected when your [[StrawMan Straw Men]] are making statements like "farming isn't the same as genocide" and genocide," "artificially inseminating cows isn't comparable to rape".rape," and "[[PeopleSitOnChairs humans are omnivores]]."
2nd Feb '16 3:24:18 AM catmuto
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* In the ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' webcomic ''FanFic/HowIBecameYours'', Mai hides letters from Katara to Zuko telling him that she's pregnant. When confronted by Zuko, she gives a reason that [[http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/ReneeLuvsZutara/HIBY%20Chapter%201/028.jpg does make sense]]: She wants to prevent a possible civil war coming from all the succession problems that the existence of a bastard child of the Fire Lord would bring. (And, well, Zuko impregnated Katara ''[[YourCheatingHeart when he already was married to Mai]]''). However, since this is [[RonTheDeathEater Mai]] and she is [[PossessionSue Katara's]] [[DieForOurShip love rival for Zuko]], she's [[DerailingLoveInterests presented as a]] [[ClingyJealousGirl petty and clingy]] DesignatedVillain who does this only out of bitterness and jealousy... and we're supposed to side with ''Zuko'' [[DomesticAbuser when, in response to her rant, he humiliates and beats her]] before abandoning his war-torn nation to run away with his babymama. Interestingly enough, Katara herself, who is not a strawman, has similar reasons for not telling Zuko.
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* In the ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' webcomic ''FanFic/HowIBecameYours'', ''FanFic/HowIBecameYours'' ** Mai hides letters from Katara to Zuko telling him that she's pregnant. When confronted by Zuko, she gives a reason that [[http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/ReneeLuvsZutara/HIBY%20Chapter%201/028.jpg does make sense]]: She wants to prevent a possible civil war coming from all the succession problems that the existence of a bastard child of the Fire Lord would bring. (And, well, Zuko impregnated Katara ''[[YourCheatingHeart when he already was married to Mai]]''). However, since this is [[RonTheDeathEater Mai]] and she is [[PossessionSue Katara's]] [[DieForOurShip love rival for Zuko]], she's [[DerailingLoveInterests presented as a]] [[ClingyJealousGirl petty and clingy]] DesignatedVillain who does this only out of bitterness and jealousy... and we're supposed to side with ''Zuko'' [[DomesticAbuser when, in response to her rant, he humiliates and beats her]] before abandoning his war-torn nation to run away with his babymama. Interestingly enough, Katara herself, who is not a strawman, has similar reasons for not telling Zuko.Zuko. ** Sokka brings an injured Azula into Toph's house and, when she wakes up, is revealed to be amnesiac. When Sokka confronts her, demanding to know what she's planning, she cries and stutters in disbelief and fear. The reader is obviously supposed to think Sokka is overreacting and much too harsh and suspicious of Azula. Yet, he had every right to be suspicious of her. In the series, Azula was repeatedly manipulative, great at disguising herself and lying to anyone, if it served her. There's no proof that she wasn't faking anything and would attack them, once their guard was down. But Sokka is the one being reprimanded.
1st Feb '16 9:23:35 PM KittyKaxx
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* In the Creator/LindsayLohan remake of ''Film/TheParentTrap'', not only did the girls immediately take a hating to Meredith simply because she wasn't their mother, but during the camping trip (to which she told them she wasn't an outdoors person) they filled her backpack with rocks, put a lizard on her head, replaced her bug repellent with sugar water, made her look like an idiot by telling her there were mountain lions, and finally push her mattress into the middle of the lake while she was asleep. Meredith is meant to look like a terrible person for freaking out and wanting to send the girls away, but anyone would have lost their shit and want to be rid of those little devils at that point; to make it worse, in her very first scene Meredith seemed to truly attempt to befriend Annie.
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* In the Creator/LindsayLohan remake of ''Film/TheParentTrap'', not only did the girls immediately take a hating to Meredith simply because she wasn't their mother, but during the camping trip (to which she told them she wasn't an outdoors person) they filled her backpack with rocks, put a lizard on her head, replaced her bug repellent with sugar water, made her look like an idiot by telling her there were mountain lions, and finally push her mattress into the middle of the lake while she was asleep. Meredith is meant to look like a terrible person for freaking out and wanting to send the girls away, but anyone would have lost their shit and want to be rid of those little devils at that point; to point. **To make it worse, in her very first scene Meredith seemed to truly attempt to befriend Annie.
26th Jan '16 10:53:27 PM dinohunterpat
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Rick and Morty}}'': Morty's father and Rick's son-in-law Jerry Smith has been treated as a incompetent, dim-witted StrawLoser. However, Jerry has valid points, notably in the season 2 finale "The Weeding Squanchers". While the family is hiding from the galactic federation, Jerry suggests to his family that they turn in Rick so that they may return back to Earth. Although called out his plan, Jerry points out how everyone has been blindly following Rick even when his actions have farmed them repeatedly. It's not hard to side with Jerry given how Rick is a sociopath who committed crimes like killing living beings, selling weapons to killers, and [[BreakTheCutie indirectly traumatizing Morty]]. [[spoiler: In a cruel Deconstruction of this trope, Rick actually agrees with Jerry's argument and impersonate Jerry to turn himself in, but not before claiming that [[CrowningMomentOfFunny he (as Jerry) sucks buttholes and licks hairy ballsacks]]]]
to:
* ''WesternAnimation/{{Rick and Morty}}'': Morty's father and Rick's son-in-law Jerry Smith has been treated by everyone as a incompetent, dim-witted an idiotic, incompetent StrawLoser. However, Jerry has valid points, notably in the season 2 finale "The Weeding Squanchers". While the family is hiding from the galactic federation, Jerry suggests to his family that they turn in Rick so that they may return back to Earth. Although called out his family opposed his plan, Jerry points out how everyone has been blindly following Rick even when his actions have farmed though he is a sociopath who treats everyone with disdain and screwed them over repeatedly. It's not hard to side with Jerry given how Rick is a sociopath wanted criminal who committed crimes like killing living beings, selling killed entire populations, sold weapons to killers, hitmen, and [[BreakTheCutie indirectly traumatizing traumatized Morty]]. [[spoiler: In a cruel Deconstruction of this trope, Rick actually agrees with Jerry's argument and impersonate Jerry his son-in-law to turn himself in, but not before claiming that [[CrowningMomentOfFunny he (as Jerry) sucks buttholes and licks hairy ballsacks]]]]
26th Jan '16 10:02:21 AM dinohunterpat
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* ''WesternAnimation/{{Rick and Morty}}'': Morty's father and Rick's son-in-law Jerry Smith has been treated as a incompetent, dim-witted StrawLoser. However, Jerry has valid points, notably in the season 2 finale "The Weeding Squanchers". While the family is hiding from the galactic federation, Jerry suggests to his family that they turn in Rick so that they may return back to Earth. Although called out his plan, Jerry points out how everyone has been blindly following Rick even when his actions have farmed them repeatedly. It's not hard to side with Jerry given how Rick is a sociopath who committed crimes like killing living beings, selling weapons to killers, and [[BreakTheCutie indirectly traumatizing Morty]]. [[spoiler: In a cruel Deconstruction of this trope, Rick actually agrees with Jerry's argument and impersonate Jerry to turn himself in, but not before claiming that [[CrowningMomentOfFunny he (as Jerry) licks buttholes and hairy ballsacks]]]]
to:
* ''WesternAnimation/{{Rick and Morty}}'': Morty's father and Rick's son-in-law Jerry Smith has been treated as a incompetent, dim-witted StrawLoser. However, Jerry has valid points, notably in the season 2 finale "The Weeding Squanchers". While the family is hiding from the galactic federation, Jerry suggests to his family that they turn in Rick so that they may return back to Earth. Although called out his plan, Jerry points out how everyone has been blindly following Rick even when his actions have farmed them repeatedly. It's not hard to side with Jerry given how Rick is a sociopath who committed crimes like killing living beings, selling weapons to killers, and [[BreakTheCutie indirectly traumatizing Morty]]. [[spoiler: In a cruel Deconstruction of this trope, Rick actually agrees with Jerry's argument and impersonate Jerry to turn himself in, but not before claiming that [[CrowningMomentOfFunny he (as Jerry) licks sucks buttholes and licks hairy ballsacks]]]]
25th Jan '16 4:30:32 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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Examples Are Not General, argues with itself
* As mentioned above, pretty much any Superhero comic falls under this in regards to the general No Kill rule; while the opposition make good point for more lethal tactics against dangerous criminals, as they just break out if they're put in jail and they never get the death penalty. However, it comes down to the simple fact that ''that's not the hero's job''. They don't the authority nor the moral/ethical high-ground to decide whether a person lives or dies. The responsiblity falls more towards the court system (however hindered it may be) and to government officals to construct prisons that can properly hold them. It doesn't solve the problem if a bunch of superpowered vigilantes are running around acting as judge, jury, and executioner.
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