History Main / StrawManHasaPoint

20th Jan '18 7:15:44 AM MathsAngelicVersion
Is there an issue? Send a Message

* In ''Disney/TheLittleMermaid'', Triton is the intolerant Jerkass telling Ariel how cruel and evil humans are, and Ariel's idealistic views all turn out to be right. But given humans have been exploiting the oceans for millennia, along with using it as a giant garbage dump, and as seen in the prequel, are directly responsible for the death of his wife, as far as he knows humans really are evil.
9th Jan '18 10:43:35 AM JJHIL325
Is there an issue? Send a Message

** [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E25ShadowPlayPart1 The Shadow]] [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E26ShadowPlayPart2 Play two parter]]: Thousand of years ago, [[PrecursorHero The Pillars of Equestria]] believed that the seventh member of their group, Stygian, [[SixthRangerTraitor betrayed them]] when they caught him performing a magical ritual over their main artifacts. As a result, they automatically assume the worst and cast him out. He soon became possessed by the Pony of Shadows (which happened because they turned against him), forcing all of them to go into Limbo in order to protect Equestria. In the present day, the main characters, along with Starlight and Sunburst decide to free the Pillars from limbo, accidentally freeing the Pony of Shadows in the process. As they find a way to defeat the Pony of shadows, itís discovered that Stygian was never trying to steal the Pillarís power. He was merely copying the artifacts so he could have the power to protect Equestria alongside them. Itís made clear Pillars were wrong to jump to conclusions about Stygian's motives and not let him explain himself. However, the flashbacks heavily implied that he took the Pillars' artifacts ''behind their back with zero consent'' instead of [[PoorCommunicationKills explaining to his friends beforehand that he was feeling left out and asking if he could borrow them for his spell]]. As a result, Stygian isnít entirely blameless for the Pillars coming to the wrong conclusion.


** [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E25ShadowPlayPart1 The Shadow]] [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E26ShadowPlayPart2 Play two parter]]: Thousand of years ago, [[PrecursorHero The Pillars of Equestria]] believed that the seventh member of their group, Stygian, [[SixthRangerTraitor betrayed them]] when they caught him performing a magical ritual over their main artifacts. As a result, they automatically assume the worst and cast him out. He soon became possessed by the Pony of Shadows (which happened because they turned against him), forcing all of them to go into Limbo in order to protect Equestria. In the present day, the main characters, along with Starlight and Sunburst decide to free the Pillars from limbo, accidentally freeing the Pony of Shadows in the process. As they find a way to defeat the Pony of shadows, itís discovered that Stygian was never trying to steal the Pillarís power. He was merely copying the artifacts so he could have the power to protect Equestria alongside them. Itís made clear Pillars were wrong to jump to conclusions about Stygian's motives and not let him explain himself. However, the flashbacks heavily implied that he took the Pillars' artifacts ''behind ''without their back with zero consent'' instead of consent'', and [[PoorCommunicationKills explaining he never explained to his friends beforehand that he was feeling left out and asking out, nor did he ask if he could borrow them for his spell]]. As a result, Stygian isnít entirely blameless for it's hard to blame the Pillars coming for assuming that he was trying to the wrong conclusion.steal their power.
31st Dec '17 8:26:36 PM MBG159
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/{{Superman}} Annual #3'' depicts a BadFuture where Lois is killed and Superman decides to bring about nuclear disarmament. This leads to him becoming more controlling and authoritarian, and being linked to the deaths of a few people (which weren't his fault), and so the government asks Batman to take him down in a fashion pulling ''heavily'' from ''ComicBook/TheDarkKnightReturns''. Batman is meant to be seen as in the right, just as he was then, despite the fact that he's now on the ''opposite'' side.
31st Dec '17 8:08:40 PM MBG159
Is there an issue? Send a Message

** Yusei is a rare protagonist example of a strawman after the Machine Emperors appear. Worried about what might happen if he confronts a Machine Emperor again, Yusei determines the best strategy is to duel without relying on Synchro Monsters, since Machine Emperors have the ability to absorb them to get stronger. Yusei duels Jack to test out this strategy, only for Jack to gain the upper hand and quit because he thinks it's ineffective, without offering any alternatives of his own. This "No Synchros" strategy of Yusei's soon gets brushed aside as he gets introduced to the concept of [[MidSeasonUpgrade Accel Synchro]], which as the name suggests, ''are still Synchro monsters'' that can be absorbed by the Machine Emperors. Yusei is meant to be seen as cowardly because of his fear of the Machine Emperors and his refusal to face them head on, but his strategy of not relying on Synchros makes a lot of sense considering they get stronger by absorbing Synchro monsters.


** Yusei is a rare protagonist example of a strawman after the Machine Emperors appear. Worried about what might happen if he confronts a Machine Emperor again, Yusei determines the best strategy is to duel without relying on Synchro Monsters, since Machine Emperors have the ability to absorb them to get stronger. Yusei duels Jack to test out this strategy, only for Jack to gain the upper hand and quit because he thinks it's ineffective, without offering any alternatives of his own. This "No Synchros" strategy of Yusei's soon gets brushed aside as he gets introduced to the concept of [[MidSeasonUpgrade Accel Synchro]], which as the name suggests, ''are still Synchro monsters'' that can be absorbed by the Machine Emperors.Emperors (the ones we see have some protective effects, but that's counterbalanced by the fact that they require ''at least'' two standard Synchros just to be brought out). Yusei is meant to be seen as cowardly because of his fear of the Machine Emperors and his refusal to face them head on, but his strategy of not relying on Synchros makes a lot of sense considering they get stronger by absorbing Synchro monsters. Even then, there's a lot of Duelists who don't really rely on or even use Synchros in the series, so it's not like it's mandatory. To the viewer, the problem seems to be not that Yusei was choosing to not use Synchros, but that the non-Synchro strategy he tried out was ''phenomenally bad.''
17th Dec '17 3:08:10 PM SilverDollar
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** A minor example from the Dark Tournament arc is George suggesting Hiei attack Bui while the latter is busy removing his armor. While the females chew him out for suggesting such a dishonorable act, they seem to forget a very important detail. The tournament isn't an officially sanctioned martial arts competition. It's BloodSport where the only consistent rules are 1) No interfering with the match. 2) Stay in the ring. When most matches are won by killing your opponent, every fighter should be a CombatPragmatist.
17th Dec '17 2:43:13 PM NubianSatyress
Is there an issue? Send a Message

** It similarly tries to pull the ArmiesAreEvil card by portraying the Army as the villains when they decide to kill the immune Alice and implement their "all targets are open" (kill everyone: survivors and infected alike) strategy to contain the outbreak. Trouble is they're entirely correct. Alice is a [[TyphoidMary dangerous vector]] who can spread the virus to others and risking keeping her alive to develop a vaccine would be pointless when the virus doesn't exist elsewhere in nature and will burn itself out in weeks anyways, the virus spreads so swiftly that there simply isn't the time, ability, or manpower to attempt anything else, and when it's now been discovered humans (though only one [[spoiler:that they know of]]) can carry and spread the world's deadliest virus without showing symptoms. [[spoiler:The ending shows infected in France: those few survivors who escaped spread it to the mainland meaning all of Europe and Asia will likely be lost to the infection.]]


** It similarly tries to pull the ArmiesAreEvil card by portraying the Army as the villains when they decide to kill the immune Alice and implement their "all targets are open" (kill everyone: survivors and infected alike) strategy to contain the outbreak. Trouble is they're entirely correct. is, their options are pretty damn limited. Alice is a [[TyphoidMary dangerous vector]] who can spread the virus to others and risking keeping her alive to develop a vaccine would be pointless when the virus doesn't exist elsewhere in nature and will burn itself out in weeks anyways, the virus spreads so swiftly that there simply isn't other options are extremely risky considering the necessary time, ability, ability or manpower to attempt anything else, and when it's now been discovered humans (though only one [[spoiler:that they know of]]) can carry and spread the world's deadliest virus without showing symptoms.manpower. [[spoiler:The ending shows infected in France: those few survivors who escaped spread it to the mainland meaning all of Europe and Asia will likely be lost to the infection.]]
17th Dec '17 2:24:53 PM SilverDollar
Is there an issue? Send a Message

** A minor example from the Dark Tournament arc is George suggesting Hiei attack Bui while the latter is busy removing his armor. While the females chew him out for suggesting such a dishonorable act, they seem to forget a very important detail. The tournament isn't an officially sanctioned martial arts competition. It's BloodSport where the only consistent rules are 1) No interfering with the match. 2) Stay in the ring. When most matches are won by killing your opponent, every fighter should be a CombatPragmatist.
14th Dec '17 8:42:10 PM JJHIL325
Is there an issue? Send a Message

** ''Order of the Phoenix'' plays Harry's feeling that AdultsAreUseless very straight, with Dumbledore admitting at the end that he shouldn't have kept secrets from him all the time and that it made things a whole lot worse. The thing is, even leaving aside Voldemort's scar-hotline, Harry is [[HotBlooded highly hot-tempered]], doesn't show any control over his emotions, repeatedly ignores warnings from people he respects (such as [=McGonagall=] who politely tries to warn him about Umbridge), has a huge {{Martyr|WithoutACause}}-Complex, then openly gets goaded in front of all of Hogwarts to punch an opponent on the Quidditch pitch. In real life, anyone with Harry's form of temperament would not be considered as a trusted member of any team or organization, leave alone an underground anti-government group.


** ''Order of the Phoenix'' plays Harry's feeling that AdultsAreUseless very straight, with Dumbledore admitting at the end that he shouldn't have kept secrets from him all the time and that it made things a whole lot worse. The thing is, even leaving aside Voldemort's scar-hotline, Harry is [[HotBlooded highly hot-tempered]], doesn't show any control over his emotions, repeatedly ignores warnings from people he respects (such as [=McGonagall=] who politely tries to warn him about Umbridge), has a huge {{Martyr|WithoutACause}}-Complex, {{Martyr|WithoutACause}}-Complex that repeatedly causes him to unnecessarily endanger himself, then openly gets goaded in front of all of Hogwarts to punch an opponent on the Quidditch pitch. In real life, anyone with Harry's form of temperament would not be considered as a trusted member of any team or organization, leave alone an underground anti-government group.
14th Dec '17 7:13:00 PM Loekman3
Is there an issue? Send a Message

%% * In the beginning of ''ComicBook/{{Champions 2016}}'', [[ComicBook/MsMarvel2014 M


%% * In the beginning of ''ComicBook/{{Champions 2016}}'', [[ComicBook/MsMarvel2014 MMs. Marvel]] quits the ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentAvengers after a fight between the team and the Wrecking Crew led to a lot of collateral. She calls out the team for abandoning it instead of helping trying to reestablish people's livelihoods. However, as [[ComicBook/TheFalcon Sam Wilson]] points out, they don't have Stark around anymore to help in that department, so leaving is the only thing they ''can'' do.
* In general, whenever someone considers or makes an attempt to kill ComicBook/TheJoker, this is always considered a case of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope even though the Joker is the poster clown for JokerImmunity. For example, in ''ComicBook/{{Knightfall}}'', Jean-Paul Valley, the temporary replacement Franchise/{{Batman}}, stops one of the Joker's murder schemes and decides that he's going to be better at the job than Bruce and kill the Joker right away. The Gotham City Police Department pull their guns on Valley and tell him to stand down. Jean-Paul Valley was Creator/DCComics TakeThat against the NinetiesAntiHero, so his actions were supposed come off as too extreme, but Gordon and his subordinates place a ridiculous amount of faith in a justice system that has been demonstrably corrupt and/or inept. Almost to illustrate that point, five minutes after the Joker is arrested, he kills his guards and escape in an ambulance.

[[folder:Fan Fiction]]
* ''FanFic/{{Anthropology}}'': The story deals with the background pony [[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipisMagic Lyra]] trying to prove the existence of humans. Bon Bon her roommate does not believe her and can come across as frustrated and sarcastic in her denial, and we should see her as an insufferable skeptic, especially when she threatens to kick Lyra out, but she makes some fairly decent points: Lyra hasn't any real proof besides some books and dreams, something Twilight agrees with, her behavior is shown to be weird by the pony standards, and Lyra needs to improve her image to advance her musical career, which [[ProperLady Rarity]] agrees with, and she only threatens to kick Lyra out when one of her stunts-bringing an apple cart to life to ride it like a car-nearly hurts somepony. [[spoiler: Of course when Lyra comes back to Ponyville with not only proof of humanity, but the fact that she herself is [[HumanAllAlong human]] all that is left is her sarcasm and frustration.]]
* In the ''Literature/HarryPotter''/''Creator/DCComics'' crossover ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9440359/1/Ascension-Book-One-Bloodline Ascension]]'', Aresia is irredeemable for unleashing Circe in an attempt to kill Harry, believing him to have bewitched her fellow amazons. Her reasoning: a male magic user came to Themyscira and within a few days, all of the [[DoesNotLikeMen Amazons]] are literally lining up to have sex with him, all the while talking about how amazing he is. It's rather hard to argue with that logic.
* ''Fanfic/{{Bitterness}}'': The rest of the cast is absolutely right when they point out that Twilight was acting irrationally angry when she accused Cadance of being evil in ''A Canterlot Wedding, Part 1'' (she did turn out to be right, but marching up and accusing Cadance was not the right way to go about things). However, we're supposed to take Twilight's side, even though in this fanfic she A) rejected Applejack's apology, B) acts like a complete JerkAss to everypony about what happened (even insulting her own brother), and C) has spent most of the fanfic twisting every pony's words. The author later admitted that he had messed up with that and that Twilight WAS acting unreasonable, both in the episode and in the events of the fanfic, and has implied that she may [[NotHimself not be herself]] right now.
* A common villainous group in ''FanFic/TheConversionBureau'' fanfics, the Human Liberation Front (which doesn't exist in the original fanfic), see ponies as a threat to mankind -- and given that the ponies' goal is often the total extinction of humans, sometimes with side-orders of GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul (and for every fanfic that paints ponification as a [[NecessarilyEvil necessary evil]] and a last resort, there's several more that have the ponies intentionally creating the threat in order to force ponification), they are absolutely right. Anti-Conversion Bureau fics like ''Fanfic/TheConversionBureauNotAlone'' and ''FanFic/TheConversionBureauTheOtherSideOfTheSpectrum'' take this and run with it, portraying the bureau as villains, although notably, ''Other Side of the Spectrum'' doesn't portray the HLF as right -- they're basically the horribly-extremist anti-pony side, while the protagonists belong to a much more moderate anti-Equestrai faction.
* About two-thirds of the way through ''FanFic/DumbledoresArmyAndTheYearOfDarkness'', Zacharias Smith decides to leave the DA. When he does so, he explains that the DA is sounding more and more like a martyrdom cult with each passing day, and the focus of the group has changed from "Resist the Death Eaters" to "Die heroically". The DA counterargument is... to agree with every word he says and ask, "What's the problem with that?" Bear in mind that all of the members of Dumbledore's Army are ''[[ChildSoldiers teenagers]]'', and Zacharias Smith (who was a strawman in [[Literature/HarryPotter canon]]!) suddenly becomes the OnlySaneMan.
* In ''[[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7305950/1/The-Empty-Cage The Empty Cage]]'', one of the differences in the seal from ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' canon is that from the moment the vessel is destroyed, the Kyuubi will be banished from the human realm for a hundred years. A civilian is presented as being heartless for suggesting killing Naruto immediately to insure a hundred years of freedom from the Kyuubi. Though, at least one person who disagrees with said civilian uses the justification that every day Naruto (really the Kyuubi) lives is another day added on to their hundred years of safety. It would ALSO result in Kyuubi deploying the equivalent of a strategic nuclear weapon on his way out, and going full-on genocidal when he got back. The fight that kicks off the plot? That's Kyuubi returning fire out of vague annoyance, not fighting seriously.
* InUniverse example in ''Fanfic/FalloutEquestria'': Red Eye was raised in an earth pony supremacist stable, and frequently argues against it in his propaganda. Given that unicorns can do magic, pegasi can fly, and earth ponies don't seem to have anything special, it would be hard to argue that earth ponies are even as good as the other races, let alone better. Despite that, the arguments he quotes are pretty convincing. Most significantly, he would have died of old age had he not been given cybernetic implants that were only developed because of the stable's obsession with technology over magic.
* ''FanFic/FrigidWindsAndBurningHearts'' has Braveheart being court-martial by Blueblood in Chapter 8. We, the readers, are supposed to side with Braveheart, and feel that Blueblood is badly mistreating him. This would be easier if everything Blueblood says about Braveheart (that he's a violent, hateful street punk in Royal Guard's clothing who has yet to succeed at a single task he undertakes in the story) wasn't true.
* In ''Hogwarts Exposed'', the ObviouslyEvil school bully [[MeaningfulName Dick]] rants about what an idiot [[MarySue Jamie]] is for diving into the freezing lake to rescue a child's doll. He's right, because however much sentimental value a doll has it's not worth drowning or freezing to death over, [[ForgotAboutHerPowers especially as she could just have said "Accio doll" and had done with it]].
* ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' webcomic ''FanFic/HowIBecameYours''
** Mai hides letters from Katara to Zuko telling him that she's pregnant. When confronted by Zuko, she gives a reason that [[http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/ReneeLuvsZutara/HIBY%20Chapter%201/028.jpg does make sense]]: She wants to prevent a possible civil war coming from all the succession problems that the existence of a bastard child of the Fire Lord would bring. (And, well, Zuko impregnated Katara ''[[YourCheatingHeart when he already was married to Mai]]''). However, since this is [[RonTheDeathEater Mai]] and she is [[PossessionSue Katara's]] [[DieForOurShip love rival for Zuko]], she's [[DerailingLoveInterests presented as a]] [[ClingyJealousGirl petty and clingy]] DesignatedVillain who does this only out of bitterness and jealousy... and we're supposed to side with ''Zuko'' [[DomesticAbuser when, in response to her rant, he humiliates and beats her]] before abandoning his war-torn nation to run away with his babymama. Interestingly enough, Katara herself, who is not a strawman, has similar reasons for not telling Zuko.
** Sokka brings an injured Azula into Toph's house and, when she wakes up, is revealed to be amnesiac. When Sokka confronts her, demanding to know what she's planning, she cries and stutters in disbelief and fear. The reader is obviously supposed to think Sokka is overreacting and much too harsh and suspicious of Azula. Yet, he had every right to be suspicious of her. In the series, Azula was repeatedly manipulative, great at disguising herself and lying to anyone, if it served her. There's no proof that she wasn't faking anything and would attack them, once their guard was down. But Sokka is the one being reprimanded.
* In ''[[FanFic/MyLittleUnicorn My Brave Pony: Star Fleet Magic II]]'', there is an ex-Wonderbolt named Ace Ray who was kicked off the squad for [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong badmouthing Star Fleet]] and has become [[StrawLoser a loser who sits around stuffing his face all day]]. However, he accuses the Star Fleet of being arrogant and lazy for not taking action against their enemies sooner and thus leading to the destruction of Equestria. He also calls them out on assuming every enemy they fight is [[AlwaysChaoticEvil irredeemably evil without even considering the possibility that they might have a reason for acting that way]]. He then accuses them of being overlords due to their species essentially taking over United Equestria, doing everything of value, and Celesto being extremely powerful, both politically and [[GodModeSue literally]]. The reader is clearly supposed to side with his sister Skye, who tells him he's bad for speaking his mind about Star Fleet. However, he makes some very good points that were mentioned by reviewers and [[{{MST}} riffers]] of the original fic.
** Twilight Sparkle protests Starfleet [[MurderIsTheBestSolution killing all of their enemies]], Krysta and Lightning Dawn's argument can be summed up as "Starfleet is always right, everyone else is always wrong."
* In the ''Anime/GirlsUndPanzer'' fanfic ''[[http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9419473/1/new-friends-new-horizons new friends, new horizons]]'', Yukari is shown as [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong being in the wrong]] for distrusting [[OriginalCharacter Nicholas White]] for carrying a gun, and having heard that he was put on trial for killing two people (although even Saori is shocked upon hearing of the latter). While it soon comes to light that Nicholas [[KnightTemplarBigBrother killed the men while they were trying to kidnap his older sister]] Elizabeth (aka Darjeeling from canon) [[AssholeVictim to sell her to the sex trade]], Yukari's reaction seems more reasonable from a first impression, especially considering the heavy restrictions on owning guns in Japan.
* In ''FanFic/TheRealUs'', Harry and Hermione have been lying to basically everyone about basically everything in canon, but most of all they've been lying to the Weasleys about their friendship, with Hermione leading on Ron and Harry doing the same with Ginny (they were actually totally boyfriend and girlfriend the whole time). The FramingDevice of the story is a publicity stunt where they admit what ''really'' happened. The Weasleys are there, and not only do Harry and Hermione basically mock them for having the ''gall'' to be heartbroken that the people they thought were their best friends were only pretending to like them, they bring up very good points about Harry and Hermione being {{Designated Hero}}es, which they are, again, mocked both in-universe and by the narrative for presenting.
* ''Fanfic/TheSecretLifeOfDolls'': [[Film/VanHelsing Anna]] is persistently paranoid and accusative of Edward, which the author condemns her for. However? [[Literature/{{Twilight}} Edward]] Tallen ''is'' a dangerous, antisocial [[ItMakesSenseInContext dollpire]] -- and just committed pre-meditated murder. This was darkly foreshadowed, when [[spoiler:Anna insists that the reason she wants to kill Edward is that killing vampires is what her family does. Cleolinda says "Yeah, well vampires are supposed to eat people and he's not doing that!"]]
* ''Fanfic/ShinjiAndWarhammer40K'': The Government bureaucrats in episode 22 are portrayed like idiots concerned about their position and afraid of losing power and influence if people do not obey them. However their concerns were not unreasonable: giving weapons to a teenager and allowing him to hoard them is a recipe for a disaster, moreover if he keeps them in his school.
* Maledict in ''FanFic/SonicXDarkChaos'' claims that without peace under his tyranny - despite all his [[GodIsEvil atrocities]] and [[TheChessmaster manipulation]] - life in the galaxy and the universe-at-large would be [[HobbesWasRight nasty, brutish, and short]] [[spoiler:and that if they would've [[TheBadGuyWins let him win]] in the first place, most of the war wouldn't have happened]]. And considering what Sonic and his friends [[WarIsHell encounter during the story]], it's hard not to see his point. This trope is {{lampshade|Hanging}}d in the rewrite by ''Sonic'' of all people, who says there may be a kernel of truth to it - [[ShutUpHannibal but even a difficult freedom is better than simply being Satan's plaything]].
* In the Literature/HarryPotter story "If This Was A Movie", Harry's OC Weasley wife is revealed to have cheated on him multiple times throughout his marriage but begs his forgiveness. Harry is willing to forgive her so long as she promises it won't ever happen again. When she refuses, Harry is supposed to be insensitive and irrational for demanding a divorce because he "doesn't understand". Her reason for cheating is that Fred died... during the war twenty years ago. Even worse is that when George confronts her about it, she uses the same excuse, conveniently ignoring that Fred was George's twin.
* The NSFW Naruto/DCAU fic ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12213689/1/Ruler-of-Ero-Justice Ruler of Ero Justice]]'' has this among it's many problems. Not even done with the first chapter and it managed to give strawmen a point ''who never even appeared in fic''. Naruto (in name only) comments that the Earth people who fear Superman are just as stupid and ungrateful as the people in Konoha who saw the Kyuubi as evil because it was controlled. Problem: No one knew that it was controlled even in canon, it was rumored by a few but it was hardly well spread among the people. By comparing it to Superman, and ignoring the long amount of time Superman spent between series rebuilding that reputation, the fic ends up making distrust of Superman look far more reasonable than it should be.
* The [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer Watcher's Council]] in ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10314540/1/Assumptions-and-the-Word-All Assumptions and the Word All]]'' are portrayed as being in the wrong for including girls with disabilities on a list of candidates for immediate termination if they ever became the Slayer. However, given that for millennia there was only one Slayer at a time and the Slayer that caused this discovery had cerebral palsy and is only capable of moving a single limb, it would be in the world's best interest for her to be killed and replaced with a more capable Slayer.

[[folder:Film -- Animated]]
* In ''WesternAnimation/{{Balto}} II: Wolf Quest'', the wise elder leader of the wolf pack, who Aleu is fascinated by, is meant to be the good guy. He is very spiritual and preaches accepting change and realizing that you will never know anything; contrasting this is a young, loud, warlike wolf who scoffs at his elder's spiritualism and argues that the pack has to fight to defend itself. The elder's talk of a vague "Grand Design" and not fearing change would probably be received better if the entire pack wasn't ''on the brink of starvation''. Admittedly, fighting a human development would not end well for the wolves, but... Spiritual Leader, ''why didn't you just say that in the first place?!''
* ''WesternAnimation/AGoofyMovie''
** While Principal Mazur, the principal of Max's high school, did exaggerate Max's behavior during a phone call with Goofy in the beginning of the film, he does have a right to be upset after Max interrupted a school assembly to perform in his Powerline persona and sent the principal down a trap door, along with Bobby and P.J. Also, we're supposed to see Mazur as an overreacting DeanBitterman after his comment about Max ending up in the electric chair, in which many would interpret it as "Max should be killed for violating school regulations", when in actuality, Mazur could just simply be saying that Max may one day get into serious legal issues if he keeps this type of behavior up, and that seemed like the imminent possibility based on Max's attempt to become popular.
** Even though Pete is a bad father, he actually does have a point when he says that his son respect him. While it's good that your children love you, you also need their respect as well since respect is integral to correcting their behavior.
* In ''Disney/TheHunchbackOfNotreDame'', even though he is essentially an abusive foster parent, Frollo's [[HobbesWasRight grim depiction]] of the world "out there" actually sounds quite realistic considering the film is set in [[TheMiddleAges Mediaeval Europe]] which was not known for being kind to those with severe birth defects. Quasimodo does, however, get to witness this first hand, and later [[ShutUpHannibal says]] that [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech it's because of people like Frollo that the world is that way]].
* In ''Disney/TheLittleMermaid'', Triton is the intolerant Jerkass telling Ariel how cruel and evil humans are, and Ariel's idealistic views all turn out to be right. But given humans have been exploiting the oceans for millennia, along with using it as a giant garbage dump, and as seen in the prequel, are directly responsible for the death of his wife, as far as he knows humans really are evil.
* ''WesternAnimation/FindingNemo'': [[OverprotectiveDad Marlin]] is portrayed as wrong for being too overbearing on Nemo and the movie revolves around him letting go and relaxing. The problems is, Marlin is completely right to fear for his son after [[FreudianExcuse Coral and the other kids died thanks to a barracuda]] and is [[ProperlyParanoid proven right again and again]] thanks to all the bad stuff that happened to Nemo and Marlin in their odyssey. That being said, Dory also points out that it isn't much of a life if Nemo can't do anything, and if Marlin hadn't been too paranoid in the first place, Nemo wouldn't have been lost.
* ''WesternAnimation/SouthParkBiggerLongerAndUncut'': At the start of the movie, the mothers of Stan, Kyle, Cartman and Kenny are at least partly justified when they boycott Terrance and Philip, as their film did influence the boys badly. [[TheyKilledKennyAgain Kenny eventually dies trying to replicate one of their stunts]], giving them every reason to be angry. However, as a studio executive points out, the film had an adult rating; the boys sneak in by claiming a random adult was their legal guardian, and the studio who made the movie never intended it to be for children. The movie may have been gross, but the boys weren't the target audience. The parents only become full-on villains when they decide to [[NeverMyFault blame all of their problems on Canada]].
* In ''Disney/{{Mulan}}'' Shang's refusal to trust Mulan after [[SweetPollyOliver her secret]] is revealed is suggested by the film to be due to sexism against her, as Shang trusted her male persona Ping. This completely ignores the fact that by pretending to be Ping, Mulan had been lying to Shang and her fellow soldiers for months, and would ''still'' be lying to them if not for events outside of her control. She may have had good intentions in trying to save her father's life, but she was still lying, risking not only her own death, but shame upon her family name. This makes Shang's lack of trust in her fairly reasonable.
* ''Disney/MulanII'' makes its titular character even worse, with Mulan doing nothing throughout the film but pushing her extremely western values onto the three princesses she's escorting, convincing them that having an ArrangedMarriage is wrong and that they should only marry the people whom they truly love. Shang's rant against her, where he claims that her pushing her ideals on everyone is selfish and dishonorable, is meant to be seen as sexist and coldhearted. However, the entire plot of the movie is that the princesses need to marry the son of the neighboring nation's emperor in order to secure an alliance between the two nations that will help fight off the invading Mongols. While the ending implies that the nations end up forming an alliance anyway (through friendship rather than political dynasty), it still comes off as very selfish and amoral for Mulan to stake the lives of millions of people on her own personal beliefs.
* In ''WesternAnimation/{{Trolls}}'', Branch refuses to help Poppy save her friends, and she scolds "You can't say no!". But he's actually well within his rights to say no. He had warned Poppy and her friends that their singing and dancing would bring the Bergens over, and he had spent years building up his bunker and avoiding the Bergens, while they think is him CryingWolf. When their loud party causes the BigBad Chef Bergen to come and snatch plenty of trolls up, Branch feels no obligation to help them out after they ignored his advice for many years.
* In ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017'', [[TheHeavy Tempest Shadow]] mulls to herself about how so much power is wasted on parties when it has far greater uses. This is meant to be part of her anti-friendship views, except she's absolutely right. If Equestria's monarchs dedicated as much power and time to the security of Equestria as they do to trying to spread friendship through parties and celebrations, the Storm King's invasion could've been prevented or easily dealt with.
** Tempest makes another good point with her VillainSong, "Open Up Your Eyes", which explains her back story of why she distrusts friendship ([[spoiler: One day when she was little, she and her friends were playing with a ball. After it ended up in a cave, she went in to retrieve it. It turns out that there was an [[BearsAreBadNews Ursa Minor]] inside, and in the process of getting out of the cave, [[FictionalDisability she lost both her horn and her control of her magic]]. Afterwards, her own friends began to fear and shun her, resulting in her abandoning the notion of friendship entirely]]). Rather than the song being evil/anti-friendship, it comes off more as a warning of being careful who you choose to trust because [[WithFriendsLikeThese someone who calls themselves your friend can still stab you in the back]].
* In ''Disney/ReturnToNeverLand'', Jane's no-nonsense dismissal of all things childish is treated as wrong by the other characters and the narration, and her CharacterDevelopment revolves around her needing to be reminded that she is still a child. However, she lives during [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII World War II]] in a town regularly bombarded by enemy airplanes. Therefore, her growing up faster to be more responsible ([[TheCynic albeit while also being a killjoy]]) may seem like a reasonable thing to some. And some would agree that she can be justified to have other priorities than children stories in a time of war and privations.
* In ''WesternAnimation/TheSecretOfKells'', Abbot Cellach's obsession with building his wall over preserving the books and his decision to forbid his nephew Brendan to go to the forest are portrayed as well-intentioned but ultimately misguided. [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold And there's no doubt that he's not the best at expressing his affection towards Brendan.]] However, on the other hand, when Brendan does go into the forest, he's attacked by wolves and would have died if the local representant of the FairFolk didn't come to help him. So the abbot was perfectly justified. Moreover, Cellach's decision to protect the present (with his wall) instead of the future (the books and their knowledge) can seem justified in a time of invasions. And it's worth mentioning that, had he not lived in a world where Northmen are apparently unstoppable surhuman monsters, an invading army would have thought twice before attacking a heavily fortified location.

[[folder:Film -- Live Action]]
* ''Film/TwentyEightWeeksLater'':
** The film portrays Don as a weak DirtyCoward for abandoning his wife Alice when she runs back into a house being overrun by zombies to save a little boy, but it is later established that the boy died anyway, (along with everybody else who was hiding away at that house at the time, killed for trying to shelter the pursued boy from the infected, with Alice only surviving because she's miraculously immune to the infection) and that Don was the only other person in the house who survived the outbreak ''explicitly because'' he ran. To say nothing of the fact that his only real alternative at the time was to engage around fifty infected in what amounts to hand-to-hand combat.
** It similarly tries to pull the ArmiesAreEvil card by portraying the Army as the villains when they decide to kill the immune Alice and implement their "all targets are open" (kill everyone: survivors and infected alike) strategy to contain the outbreak. Trouble is they're entirely correct. Alice is a [[TyphoidMary dangerous vector]] who can spread the virus to others and risking keeping her alive to develop a vaccine would be pointless when the virus doesn't exist elsewhere in nature and will burn itself out in weeks anyways, the virus spreads so swiftly that there simply isn't the time, ability, or manpower to attempt anything else, and when it's now been discovered humans (though only one [[spoiler:that they know of]]) can carry and spread the world's deadliest virus without showing symptoms. [[spoiler:The ending shows infected in France: those few survivors who escaped spread it to the mainland meaning all of Europe and Asia will likely be lost to the infection.]]
* In ''Film/OneHundredAndOneDalmatians'', the evil fashion exec Cruella Deville is dismissive of the idea that Anita, her employee, should leave her job in the event of marriage. This is meant to show Deville as callous and cynical, but her observation that marriage tends to deal a massive blow to a woman's career is unfortunately true -- or at least, [[SocietyMarchesOn was at the time period]].
* The closest thing that ''Film/TwoThousandTwelve'' has to a villain is Oliver Platt's heartless presidential adviser, who's an obvious TakeThat to UsefulNotes/GeorgeWBush and Dick Cheney -- note that his name is Anheuser, presumably after Anheuser-''Busch'' breweries. However, after the fifth or sixth argument where his level-headed pragmatism is contrasted with the HonorBeforeReason [[ChronicHeroSyndrome Save Everyone]] bleeding-heart attitude of the rest of the cast, you kind of have to wonder if maybe the writers did not secretly agree with him. Some examples:
** He is heavily criticized for keeping the impending disaster a secret from the general public, although announcing the end of the world would've caused massive panic and hysteria and helped no one.
** Dr. Adrian complains that "only rich people" are being let onto the Arks, to which Anheuser responds that the money they spent buying tickets is what funded the Arks in the first place. That and [[DeadpanSnarker snarking]] "Oh, you mean life ''isn't fair?!''" (No one seems to point out that those "rich people" won't be rich after the catastrophe. Even if they could take all their money with them, it'll be worthless in a world without an economy to back it up. They'll have to work just like everyone else and will find it significantly harder than those who have developed skills that might actually apply in rebuilding society, such as construction, science, logistics, or agriculture.)
** When Adrian wants to open up the Ark to save one more family, Anheuser chews him out for [[TheNeedsOfTheMany wanting to risk everyone's lives just for a slim chance of saving five or six more people]]. Which is made even more glaring in hindsight after this supposed heroism results in the horrific deaths of [[spoiler: Gordon and Tamara]].
** The scientists gave the world governments a set time table for when the world was supposed to end, and the world governments began their doomsday preparations based upon the timeline given to them. But when the end of the world started ''earlier'' than what was projected, Anheuser essentially has to make decisions on the fly which are morally ambiguous but are also realistic. He's supposed to be seen as evil for not wanting to save certain people, but considering the scientists keep feeding data that is consistently wrong it's hard to blame him for having to make such drastic decisions.
* In ''Film/{{Accepted}}'', a high school senior rejected by every college ends up inventing one out of thin air. The thing spins out of control and becomes an actual, factual school set out of an old mental institution. The DeanBitterman at the nearby traditional college wages an accreditation jihad against the upstart. The guy's a {{Jerkass}}, and the new school (with its emphasis on the students) is presented as a brave bastion of new educational methods. But as Dean Dick points out, the new place doesn't have a health center, more than one faculty member, or even a ''library''. One doesn't have to be a crusty old academic to argue that a college should at least have a freaking library.
* Dean Wormer's point of view in ''Film/AnimalHouse'' is understandable -- no sane college administration would want the Deltas around, and the rest of the student body might well have been good and tired of their endless pranks, hell-raising and rule-breaking. The Deltas may have been AffablyEvil, but evil they were nonetheless -- a lot of the stunts they pulled would get people who tried them in RealLife [[HilarityEnsues tossed straight into jail]]. That Wormer goes overboard ultimately justifies him being the villain.
* In ''Film/BillyMadison'', Eric is supposed to be a CorruptCorporateExecutive who merely wants to run Madison Hotels. However, he ''is'' right when he points out that the company's fifty-thousand employees are not likely to have jobs for very long if the president makes his drunkard son (who only graduated because his father bribed his teachers) president of the company. Notably, before Billy strikes a deal to graduate legitimately, this actually ''does'' temporarily convince Billy's father to hand the reins over to Eric. It's also noteworthy that, after some CharacterDevelopment, Billy himself concludes that he's not cut out for the management of a large company and turns it over to Carl, who is both competent and not a {{Jerkass}}[[note]]Also perhaps worth noting that Billy's initial objection also seemed to be his father turning the company over to Eric because "he's a bad guy!", not because he wanted to do it; it's suggested that he otherwise wouldn't have been too bothered[[/note]]. As for Eric losing his cool and drawing a gun in the climax, remember that he just lost the chemistry competition due to the judges accepting that Billy was able to freeze a ''boot''.
* In ''Film/{{Bruno}}'', Creator/{{Sacha Baron Cohen}}'s goal as the titular character is to "expose the undercurrent of homophobia in American society". But he does this by assuming the character of an outrageously, nauseatingly flamboyant caricature of the worst stereotypes of homosexual men (to say nothing of [[ThoseWackyNazis idolizing Hitler as Austria's greatest national character]]), and then engaging in what is fundamentally sexual harassment of various men who cross his path. The "homosexual hate" he encounters, in a lot of cases, feels less like homophobia and more like a perfectly natural response to being accosted by such an unpleasant, highly offensive individual.
* In ''Film/CapeFear'', Bowden gets the chief of police to try to drive Cady out of town before Cady has done anything illegal. Cady hires a lawyer who is portrayed as fussy and over-liberal, but who makes the entirely legitimate point that Cady is being harassed for no reason. Of course, Cady does not stay innocent for long.
* In ''Film/CatchingFaith'', John Taylor gets caught drinking alcohol while underage at a party. His family pressures him to accept responsibility by confessing, even though that meant that he could not play any more games during the rest of the football season. Later, his coach talks to John on this issue. John, while still resentful, does bring up the point in that many other people, especially members of the same football team, engaged in underage consumption of alcohol, yet they appeared to be getting scot-free. The coach instead doubles down on the "take responsibility of your actions" moral. Indeed, not only the film never touches upon what exactly has happened to everyone else at that party, but, also, all of the other football players did not get the punishment that John got.
* ''Film/ChairmanOfTheBoard'' has a version of this mixed with HilariousInHindsight: Bradford, the antagonist, blasts Edison's management of the company while the latter is shown driving up the stock price and getting magazine covers amid his antics running the company. The only problem? He was running the company in almost exactly the same manner as a lot of dotcom startups at the same time, almost all of which went broke. Had Bradford not violated numerous laws in forcing Edison out, his fight for control of the company would have been justified to save it from Edison's "interesting" management style. In the meantime, Bradford would arguably have managed the company competently even if he was only looking to sell...one presumes he would have gotten more for a functional company than an asset-stripped wreck, after all.
* ''Film/ChristmasWithTheKranks'' expects the viewers to side with the neighbors who harass the title characters for deciding to celebrate Christmas by taking a cruise. Their daughter went off on a Peace Corps assignment thus making the first time in almost two decades they have time for themselves, except [[SeriousBusiness the annual Christmas lights competition]] in which the neighborhood competes annually would count against them having a family out of town and not competing, and they could not have ''that''. The entire plot of the movie is because the neighborhood wants a certificate or a trophy to put in Town Hall for a year. The ending moral is about Christmas being about togetherness and love, the husband portrayed as being selfish and petty for resenting the neighborhood finally getting him to join their traditions (complete with UnsportsmanlikeGloating and insults) and still wanting to go on the cruise. Said cruise was a romantic gesture and an attempt to spend long deserved time alone with his wife, a much better symbolism of Christmas' virtues than bullying someone in excess for the sake of winning a contest.
* In ''Film/TheClass'', a French teacher (François Bégaudeau) struggles to teach grammar to his often apathetic students. Though the students are fleshed out and late in the film the teacher is disrespectful and called out for it, thereby avoiding {{Straw Character}}s, the audience is expected to take his side about the necessity of grammar. Not all agreed with it, though.
-->'''Ebert''': As the students puzzle their way through, I don't know, the passive pluperfect subjunctive or whatever, I must say I sided with them. Despite the best efforts of dedicated and gifted nuns, I never learned to diagram a sentence, something they believed was of paramount importance. Yet I have made my living by writing and speaking. You learn a language by listening and speaking. You learn how to write by reading. It's not an abstraction. Do you think the people who first used the imperfect tense felt the need to name it?
* ''Film/CloseEncountersOfTheThirdKind''. Roy Neary, the protagonist, makes his dreams come true when he meets the aliens and leaves on their ship. All is great and uplifting and wonderful... except the guy has a wife and four kids, who are dependent on him. His wife is presented as being vindictive, but this does not change the facts: chasing his dream, Neary got himself fired from his job, which was the main source of income for his whole family, and now leaves them altogether for a journey across space he dreamed of. His wife is absolutely right when she describes Roy as an overgrown kid without any sense of responsibility. Interestingly enough, the director himself noted later that now, being married and with children, he would not endorse Neary's actions.
* In the hilariously {{anvilicious}} and {{Narm}}y LifetimeMovieOfTheWeek ''Film/CyberSeductionHisSecretLife'', the mother of the protagonist freaks and panics upon learning that her son is [[FelonyMisdemeanor looking at Internet porn]]. The father is very unconcerned and does not think there is anything abnormal about a teenage boy looking at porn, and the viewer is expected to consider the father an oafish buffoon. (Admittedly there are some types of porn ''no-one'' should be looking at, but you'll have a hard time convincing someone that All Porn Is Bad - or at least that looking at porn is the absolute worst thing a young man could be doing).
* In ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill1951'' the humans are lambasted for "striking first". But after the alien spacecraft landed with little warning in a capital city, Klaatu walks directly at the humans wearing a face-obscuring (and unnecessary) helmet with an object that snaps open unexpectedly within melee range. Did Klaatu really expect the humans wouldn't so much as ''flinch'' when that happened? While the soldiers are still in error for shooting, their error is entirely understandable, because making sudden moves during a very tense situation where people are already pointing weapons is not going to end well.
** In a greater scope, humanity in general. Klaatu arrives with zero warning, shuts down all power on Earth (with the exception of hospitals and in-flight airplanes) -- which potentially caused thousands of deaths -- all to deliver a message of complete annihilation if they do anything remotely "threatening" to a planet they didn't even know existed solely because Earth has the ''theoretical'' capability to attack them, not because of any action Earth intentionally or unintentionally made against them. This makes Klaatu's planet look extremely hostile and xenophobic, ruining the film's intended message.
* In ''Film/TheDayTheEarthStoodStill2008'' various characters from the government and military are depicted as being callous, paranoid, and inhumane when they immediately imprison the injured alien visitor and attempt to interrogate him about what he's doing on Earth. Even though the viewers are supposed to be disgusted with their behavior, there's one minor problem; Klaatu is indeed planning to destroy the entire human race, taking all of a day and a couple interviews to verify it as the right course. [[ProperlyParanoid The "inhumane" government officials were completely correct to treat him as an enemy.]]
* In the film of ''Literature/TheDevilWearsPrada'', Miranda Priestly delivers a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to her poor, put-upon assistant Andrea, who just wants to be a writer and doesn't understand why everybody looks down on her for not being a fashionista. The problem is that she works for the editor of a ''fashion'' magazine. Miranda's speech shows quite nicely that problematic though it is, the industry influences everyone and is ignored at one's own peril. Moreover, thinking that you're "above" the field you work in is not a professional attitude or one you should display in front of your boss and coworkers, who have slaved and sacrificed to succeed in an intensely cutthroat line of work.
** Later, Andrea is chewed out by her friends for getting involved in her work, instead of remaining an aloof hipster like them, but she's in a high-risk high-energy industry, and she only took the job to get the credentials she needs for the job she wants, so actually investing herself in the job is what's expected of her, where if she treats it like a 9 to 5, she'll never get a good recommendation, to say nothing of basic work ethic of doing your job well.
* In ''Film/{{Dragonslayer}}'', King Casiodorus is presented as a villain whose great crime is creating the lottery by which innocent virgins are sacrificed to the dragon Vermithrax. The thing is, though, the lottery ''worked''. Casiodorus tells the story of how his brother Gazerick, a brave warrior king, went out to try and slay the dragon. Vermithrax killed Gazerick and all his men, then laid waste to whole towns in retaliation. The point is underscored when [[spoiler:Galen's first bungled effort at dragon-slaying provokes a slaughter]]. Casiodorus's solution of pacifying the dragon with a handful of sacrifices was far better. Even though Casiodorus is later shown to be a hypocrite who [[spoiler:accepts bribes to keep rich ladies out of the lottery, then jettisons the whole scheme when his own daughter offers herself up]], no one ever presents a compelling answer to his argument: better a few should die that many may live.
* A frequent problem in CowboyCop type movies, particularly ''Film/DirtyHarry'', where the wishy-washy liberal superiors chastise Harry for his flagrant abuse of the rights of the suspect and ignorance of police procedure. But the thing is, they are right, and Harry would be a terrifyingly dangerous person in real life. This whole issue was deliberately acknowledged in the first film, ''Film/DirtyHarry'', where the superior turns out to be completely right: it's not good to be a loose cannon. Its sequel ''Film/MagnumForce'' acknowledged this with the primary antagonists being a group of Cowboy Cops. It is instructive to note that despite all the other rules he breaks, Harry never actually killed anyone outside standard law enforcement rules of engagement.
** Even in the ''first'' movie, [[UnbuiltTrope Harry isn't portrayed as completely in the right]]. Everyone seems to forget (probably because the sequels {{retcon}}ned it) that at the end of the movie, he ''quits the force'' because things just don't work. Also that the killer goes free because of Harry's misconduct (though see the HollywoodLaw entry about this-legally, his apprehension of Scorpio was perfectly legal except for the confession, which wouldn't be necessary for a conviction). It's certainly not the case that Harry's methods get things done in spite of being unconventional and illegal.
** The creators seem to be at least aware of this, as a common feature of the sort of CowboyCop movie like ''Film/DirtyHarry'' and ''Film/{{Cobra}}'' is to [[BlackAndGrayMorality make the villains so over-the-top evil]] (baby-killers, mass murderers, etc) that the political strawmen do end up looking like callous enablers allowing them to game the system. As a result, it's not the politicians but ''the villains themselves'' who become strawmen to justify the movie's aesop that the cops were [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight doing what they felt was right to prevent greater evils]].
** This is pointedly invoked in ''Film/{{Zodiac}}'', where Inspector Toschi (on whom Harry is ostensibly based) walks out of a screening of ''Dirty Harry''. He's clearly disgusted by the film and comments to Robert Graysmith afterwards, "So much for due process."
* In ''Dobro Pozhalovat, ili Postoronni vhod vospreschen'' ("Welcome, or No Entry unless Invited"), a Russian film about a child expelled from summer camp, the camp director Dynin is a horrible ObstructiveBureaucrat who clearly doesn't understand children while sucking up to his superiors. Yet his reasons to expel Innochkin (the main protagonist) are absolutely valid. Innochkin already taught everyone to fence with sticks, resulting in injuries, broke the curfew repeatedly, and now swam across the river despite this being strictly forbidden. Not only is Dynin right in no longer wanting to be responsible for Innochkin (though he is a very good swimmer, he could still drown), but unless an example is set other children may start crossing the river too - and not all of them are such good swimmers. Removing Innochkin from camp was the only sane thing to do-especially as they might be liable for anyone getting hurt.
* In ''Film/EagleEye'', the antagonist has a pretty good point. The President of the United States 1) spent billions of dollars on a Supercomputer, only to completely ignore its conclusions, and the advice of his own Secretary of Defense, and then 2) bombed a funeral procession full of innocent people, leading to an increase in acts of terror against the United States and 3) washed his hands of the whole thing by blaming the entire incident on the hardworking scientists who built the Supercomputer in the first place, even though it very explicitly told him that the bombing was a very unwise idea. Honestly, if Operation Guillotine hadn't involved the deaths of dozens of children and other innocent bystanders as collateral damage, she probably would have been in the right because this guy is clearly too self-centered to be an effective leader.
* In ''Film/FantasticFour2015'', after the teleporter to Planet Zero is perfected, a scientist announces that he's going to call NASA to get some astronauts to go explore. Victor and Reed protest this because ''they'' want to be the ones known for being the first to explore the new planet. Victor even goes on a drunken rant about how everyone remembers the astronauts of the Apollo missions and not the engineers who made it possible. We're clearly supposed to sympathize with them, but given how they do pretty much ''everything'' wrong on their drunken exploration trip (wandering off, touching weird rivers of energy, and suchlike), it obviously would have been much better to send ''trained professionals'' on this important and likely dangerous mission. Besides, while people don't remember the Apollo engineers, the same fate didn't befall (for example) Werner von Braun, and given what they perfected there's a ''very'' good chance they'd be remembered for ''inventing'' a ''teleporter''.
** The project leaders are also likely accounting for the possibility of something going wrong with the first expedition. If NASA's men get stranded or killed after being sent to the new planet, it would be a tragic loss but Victor and Reed would be able to analyze what happened and attempt to correct the issue. If the scientists who invented the teleporter get stranded or killed, ''there's nobody left who knows how to make or adjust the device''.
* Edward Rooney in ''Film/FerrisBuellersDayOff''. It's his job to prevent truancy among his students and ensure attendance. While he clearly oversteps his authority by the end of the film, and although Ferris had a parentally excused absence, that doesn't change the fact that Ferris was skipping school, has done so at least nine times prior (he hacks into the school computer to change the records), does so by blatantly exploiting the good will of everyone, including his parents (he tricked them into excusing him from school, so even though he's excused it's just more proof of Rooney's accusations), and was also taking other students out of school while they were under Rooney's care. And Ferris's sister Jeane is also treated as a villain who just wants to catch Ferris out of spite, even though she never does anything immoral - rather she counters several of Ferris' immoral acts.
* In ''Film/FridayThe13thPartVIJasonLives'', Tommy Jarvis desperately attempts to warn the Crystal Lake/Forest Green police after he accidentally brings SerialKiller Jason Voorhees [[BackFromTheDead back to life]], but nobody but the sheriff's own daughter will believe him. Jason's subsequent [[KillEmAll bloodbath]] only convinces the cops that Tommy himself is the killer, acting out a delusion of Jason's return. Never mind that the sheriff's daughter can vouch for Tommy because he was ''with her'' during two of the murders. The cops are only forced to accept Tommy's story when they are attacked by Jason himself at the camp, and promptly killed. We are supposed to side with Tommy and see [[PoliceAreUseless the policemen as useless buffoons]], but on the other hand, when a kid who spent several years in an institution and is under psychiatric care shows up and claims a notorious murderer, who is dead and buried for years, was revived by a lightning strike and is now a zombie, prowling around with a machete and killing people, would you believe him unconditionally? And Megan's statement means only that Tommy could have an alibi for two of the murders, not for the rest of them.
* A few ''Franchise/{{Godzilla}}'' movies have the debate over killing Godzilla or capturing him for study. While it's true that the traits that enable the monster to exist could lead to immeasurable benefits for humanity, they won't be much good if he keeps smashing cities or infrastructure in general.
** In the Creator/RolandEmmerich ''Film/{{Godzilla|1998}}'', Mayor Ebert is already intended to be a character the audience should hate [[TakeThatCritics because he's clearly based on]] Creator/RogerEbert, who criticized some of Emmerich's previous films. Therefore, he's set up as a whiny moron who constantly badgers the military and makes terrible decisions in light of a mass panic. However, most of them are dead on - at one point he chastises the commander for doing more damage than the lizard himself (at which point he is comically thrown a bag of chocolates because HE'S FAT). He's ''dead right'' though - at the time he shouts that line, the military's blundering, clumsy efforts and lack of regard for life and property in containing Godzilla have caused far more on-camera casualties than Godzilla himself has. One of the highlights being the military's destruction of the Chrysler building when they miss Godzilla... No doubt there were still people inside given how many people were still trapped inside the city (and not to mention a building of that size going down would make a lot of collateral damage...), which prompted the outburst in the first place.
* In ''Film/GrossAnatomy'', the protagonist, Joe Slovak, lambastes the administration of the medical school where he is a student after his roommate and best friend is "invited to leave"; that is, informally expelled. The problem is that said roommate was caught using amphetamines. The protagonist objects that medical students are only human, not superhuman, and that the school's expectations of them are too high, and that the school should be more understanding and compassionate toward a student who needed speed to get through his classes. We're clearly meant to side with Slovak and his roommate - but, here's the thing: would ''you'' want to be the patient of a doctor who needed amphetamines just to pass his ''first'' year of medical school? Moreover, most doctors passed their first years without speed. Also, arguably the school is being compassionate by washing out a student who can't hack it as a first-year, rather than waiting for him to accrue tens of thousands of dollars more in student-loan debt when they have to expel him later. A doctor who washes out as an intern after graduating from medical school doesn't get all his student loans magically forgiven. He still has to pay them back, but without the income of a full-fledged licensed physician.
* The title character of ''Film/{{Hitch}}'' makes some very valid points about continuing with one's life, adapting, and moving on after a relationship goes sour. He gets called out on this by one of his clients who outright calls him a coward for not chasing after one's love; granted, in the client's case, the breakup was because of a misunderstanding, but in Hitch's case there was a very clear and valid reason for it. As expected, since the film is a RomanticComedy, Hitch gives in and goes great lengths to get back his love interest even after several rejections, incurring extreme behavior and injuries to himself.
* ''Film/HomeAlone 2''
** After the card Kevin used at the Plaza Hotel comes up as "stolen," the hotel concierge has every right to want Kevin arrested for credit card fraud. As far as he and the rest of the hotel staff knew, Kevin's story was a complete lie. And even though the card did belong to Kevin's dad, Kevin was still using the credit card without permission, and Kevin really was lying about how he got a hold of it. Sure, the concierge may have been trying to snoop in on Kevin, but the fact remains that the concierge was acting well within the law.
** Later on in the film, Kevin's mother slaps the hotel concierge for telling her not to go out looking for Kevin by herself, even though he points how huge and dangerous New York is, especially in the middle of the night, which is when she wants to go looking. Even Kevin's dad tries to tell her it's a bad idea, but she's insistent. We're supposed to take her side as a concerned parent, but she's needlessly putting herself in all kinds of danger just on the off-chance she might find out where Kevin is in a place as huge as New York City.
* ''Film/IAmSam''. More than a few critics and viewers couldn't help agreeing with the "bad guys" that, no matter how wonderful of a person Sam was, he wasn't capable of raising a child. Having said that, it's clear at the end that the would-be adoptive mother is still in the picture, even if Sam is legally the father. Presumably she helps out with the various things that he can't handle by himself, but the movie didn't make that explicit.
* In ''Film/IndianaJonesAndTheKingdomOfTheCrystalSkull'', two government agents angrily interrogate Indy after Russian spies kidnap him and an old partner of his, murder several American soldiers at a top secret test facility and make off with an alien corpse. Considering what just happened and that Indy's old partner was working with the Russians, the interrogation doesn't seem that unnecessary. Bear in mind this is set during the Cold War.
* In ''Film/{{JFK}}'', the opposing argument to Jim Garrison's conspiracy scenario is laid out nicely by Bill Broussard (played by Creator/MichaelRooker). While yes, Broussard was [[spoiler:secretly working with the FBI against Garrison]], he nonetheless raises an excellent point when he criticizes Garrison's scenario regarding the assassination of [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy President Kennedy]] - which, according to Garrison, involves the CIA, FBI, anti-Castro Cubans, the Mafia, the Dallas Police, right-wing oil billionaires, and the military-industrial complex to name just a few. Broussard lays out the best argument for lone gunman proponents when he says that such a conspiracy would be impossible to successfully pull off and keep a secret, owing to how complicated such a conspiracy would be and how many people would have to be involved (something real people have also argued). True, Broussard's own theory isn't great either, but his criticism of Garrison unintentionally undermines the film's pro-conspiracy message. Given that Garrison is mostly a mouthpiece for Creator/OliverStone to voice his own views, and that the person whom Broussard was based upon was claimed by the real Garrison to have undermined his case from day one (and Stone largely believed whatever Garrison said), Broussard is treated as a villain while Garrison is portrayed as in the right, regardless of the nonsensical nature of his entire premise.
* In ''Film/LandOfTheLost'', Rick states that he doesn't want Cha-Ka sleeping in the cave with them and, when his friends take offense to this (implying FantasticRacism), Rick points out that Cha-Ka was about to be executed when they found him and may have done something to actually deserve it. While Rick basically ''is'' being fantastically racist, his claim is a valid concern. [[spoiler:''Especially'' when later in the film when the BigBad takes advantage of their trust to escape and nearly TakeOverTheWorld.]]
* Ebert's [[http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030221/REVIEWS/302210304/1023 review]] of ''Film/TheLifeOfDavidGale'', which is a different type of this trope wherein the movie's central characters go ''so ridiculously far'' to show that their position is right, you cannot help but be disgusted with them. [[spoiler: The characters were going for "the death penalty is wrong because an innocent man can potentially be executed". What they actually proved was "if you deliberately conceal the evidence that you are innocent from the court until after its too late to do anything, it will arrive too late to do anything". Well, ''duh''.]]
* Many critics who disliked ''Film/LionsForLambs'' felt this way about Creator/TomCruise's character. A Senator with Presidential ambitions, his role in the film is an interview with anti-war journalist played by Meryl Streep discussing his new plan for Afghanistan. The Senator outlines a reasonable plan and makes some good points, but the film basically expects us to side exclusively with Streep's character simply due to her being anti-war and it being an anti-war film.
* In ''Film/LookWhosTalking Too'', the mooching brother-in-law is essentially a strawman for everything that is not a Proper New York City Attitude, including the fact that he has a gun. However, it is a little difficult to argue with one of his rationalizations for having it:
-->"You know, you people really amuse me, stockpiling your canned food and your water in case of disaster. But when the shit really hits the fan and you're sitting over here with your stuff, and the guy next door has a gun, who do you think's gonna go hungry? Him, or you?"
* In ''Film/TheLostWorldJurassicPark'' the villains, [=InGen=] corporation, are portrayed as evil because they want to recapture the dinosaurs from Isla Sorna to recoup their losses from the first film. While they were pretty ruthless, [[VillainyFreeVillain as well as dicks with the exception of two]] (hunter Roland Tembo and his buddy Ajay), their argument that the dinosaurs are their rightful property does have merit. When the heroes call them out on destroying the island's "natural" environment, the CorruptCorporateExecutive points out that they created the dinosaurs and introduced them to the island in the first place, millions of years and thousands of miles from their actual long-gone natural habitat. The heroes have no counterargument to this other than Nick trying to start a fight. This is one of those cases where what's right legally may or may not be what's right morally, but it's certainly not as cut-and-dried as the film would like to present it.
** There's also a deleted scene of an [=InGen=] meeting where they discuss the millions of dollars already lost on Jurassic Park and the ensuing lawsuits. Between the cleanup and the wrongful death suits alone, they're a hair shy of 200 million in the red, and they ''do'' have a right to use their assets to try and recoup their losses. You could argue they actually have a ''duty'' to the shareholders.
* ''Film/JamesBond'':
** The unofficial film ''Film/NeverSayNeverAgain'' introduces us to a new M who orders Bond to go to a health farm after he fails a training exercise - an act in which we the viewer are clearly meant to believe makes him some kind of tinpot dictator or ObstructiveBureaucrat that is unable to register just how badass Bond is. But if you take off your fan hat for a second and analyse the situation from his point of view you suddenly realize that he is absolutely correct. He has an ageing senior field agent of the elite 00 unit who failed an exercise because he wasn't being careful enough, who drinks heavily, who smokes like a chimney, who frequently gambles, who is open to all sorts of S.T.D.s thanks to his womanising, who is not a team-player and has a diet rich in fatty heavily salted foods. Even by the standards of the 80's you simply cannot let an active agent who is licensed to kill anyone he pleases behind enemy lines carry on like this.
** In what is likely a nod to this, ''Film/{{Skyfall}}'' features a similar scenario. Bond is cleared by M to go back on active duty, despite having failed his physical re-evaluation (and her hiding the fact from him). When he's informed that he's been approved, Gareth Mallory points out that "it's a young man's game" and that there's no shame in admitting that he's too old for the job. It seems as though the audience is supposed to take the side of Bond (who is the main character), but Mallory isn't exactly far off the mark. An agent with a previous injury (that, by his own words, nearly killed him) and borderline-inadequate physical health shouldn't be the sole resource for a mission, even when Bond's machinations play into Raoul Silva's plan to attempt an assassination on M. By the end of the film, however, it is reaffirmed that sometimes, old dogs have to learn new tricks to stay relevant in the modern age.
* In ''Film/MaidInManhattan'', DesignatedVillain Caroline files a complaint with hotel management when she discovers that Marisa, the maid in question, had been wearing her clothes and using her identity. The audience knows that Marisa doesn't have any ill intentions, but Caroline doesn't and has every right to be upset. What's more, such an action is an offense worthy of termination, precisely what happens.
* ''Film/NineMonths'' is all about a man (Samuel) who finds out his girlfriend (Rebecca) is pregnant; needless to say, it's a surprise pregnancy and neither of them are really sure if they want to go through with it at first. Samuel himself doesn't really accept it until close to the end of the pregnancy, but Rebecca accepts it pretty early on and starts preparing for motherhood. Great pains are taken to paint Samuel as wrong for being reluctant to have a kid, veering into Strawman territory at several points, but the kicker has to be early on when Rebecca gets worried that the cat Samuel owns might be a problem, as a cat can lie on a baby's face and smother it. She tries to convince Samuel to get rid of the cat, and we're supposed to side with her and think Samuel is an uncaring jerk for putting his pet ahead of his baby...except that, as Samuel says, the cat is fifteen years old, so it would be a surprise if it lived long enough to see the baby born, the cat has no teeth left, and the poor thing hardly moves. No vet would agree to put down an otherwise healthy pet that's just old, and giving it up to a shelter would be heartless because a cat that old is unadoptable, so it would be put down after a few months anyway instead of living its final days in comfort with a loving owner. Not to mention, the very idea that a cat would lie down on a baby's face and smother it to death is, at best, implausible. Samuel point-blank refuses to get rid of the cat and the matter is dropped for the rest of the movie.
* The heroine in ''Film/OneMagicChristmas'' is not sufficiently excited about celebrating Christmas, so she's made to go through a TraumaCongaLine to make her thankful for what she has and get her in the holiday spirit. The thing is, she's depressed because her husband is out of work and out of money and their landlord is preparing to foreclose on their home-- who ''would'' be feeling merry and festive in those circumstances? And how is putting her through a barrage of [[CrapsackWorld terribly traumatic life experiences]] supposed to make her feel better?
* The 70s film ''Film/OverTheEdge'' [[DesignatedVillain presents police officer Sgt. Doberman as the face of authoritarian evil for trying to do his job]] and treats his shooting of a teenager as a MoralEventHorizon because the kid was pointing an empty gun at him while screaming "Die, pig!!" The intended sympathetic characters immediately dismiss Doberman's point that he had no way of knowing the weapon was unloaded, conveniently ignoring the fact that it's a ''damn good point''. Anyone who's had firearms training -- especially police officers -- knows they absolutely ''cannot'' afford to assume that any gun aimed at them isn't loaded. Common sense dictates that anyone pointing an empty gun at somebody guaranteed to have both the means and ability to shoot back is either TooDumbToLive or [[SuicideByCop trying to die]].
* In the Creator/LindsayLohan remake of ''Film/TheParentTrap'', not only did the girls immediately take a hating to Meredith simply because she wasn't their mother, but during the camping trip (to which she told them she wasn't an outdoors person) they filled her backpack with rocks, put a lizard on her head, replaced her bug repellent with sugar water, made her look like an idiot by telling her there were mountain lions, and finally push her mattress into the middle of the lake while she was asleep. Meredith is meant to look like a terrible person for freaking out and wanting to send the girls away, but anyone would have lost their shit and want to be rid of those little devils at that point. To make it worse, in her very first scene Meredith seemed to truly attempt to befriend Annie.
* ''Film/PatchAdams'':
** Series/SiskelAndEbert [[http://bventertainment.go.com/tv/buenavista/atm/reviews.html?sec=6&subsec=patch+adams agree with the villains]]. Yes, while they were shown as insisting on being coldly professional at all times, which apparently includes things such as [[BrutalHonesty flatly telling someone they had a few weeks to live]] and then heading off to complete your rounds without another word, Ebert and Siskel said they would run if they got a wacky doctor like Creator/RobinWilliams' character who is never actually seen treating patients. [[FalseDichotomy The option of having a reasonable amount of bedside manner without going overboard is never offered.]] The real Patch Adams himself was upset regarding his depiction in the movie, saying his method was more like the middle ground; help patients keep a positive attitude with good humor, but still, you know, practice real medicine. The film also focuses entirely on patients' mental well-being and neglects to consider the ''doctor's'' well-being. Becoming emotionally invested with a patient only to watch helplessly as they die will make anyone an emotional wreck.
** Patch's roommate is supposed to be a {{Jerkass}} whose hostility is motivated by his frustration over Patch's subversive antics. When Patch calls him out after he turns Patch in for suspected cheating, the roommate replies he has seen how little Patch actually studies and asks how Patch still manages to get such high marks. The viewer has yet to see Patch do much studying either, so it seems primed for Patch to defend himself to show he knows the material. Instead, Patch launches into another speech attacking the roommate for being a Jerkass, and the viewer is [[InformedAbility left to assume]] Patch wears his smart hat offscreen because he is the protagonist, so he could not possibly be cheating to excel in an academic system he has such little regard for. [[FridgeLogic (So...Patch doesn't study because he's "too smart" for the class?)]]
* ''Film/Plan9FromOuterSpace'': If, and only if, such a device that could blow up not only the world but the ''universe'' were plausible - then these visiting aliens would have a good point in trying to prevent it from being built. [[PoorCommunicationKills They really need to work on their methods though...]]
* Christian in Kirk Cameron's ''Film/SavingChristmas'' raises several valid and true points about the commercialization of Christmas, such as how modern Christianity has absorbed several religious symbols (such as Christmas trees) from Pagan beliefs, or that the mass overspending on personal goods could be used to help feed the needy. Cameron's character easily brushes off every complaint with InsaneTrollLogic (i.e. It's okay to be greedy and gluttonous for ''material'' things because Jesus sacrificed his ''material'' body, or that people should see a stack of Christmas presents as the skyline of the New Jerusalem) that the film presents as actually being a LogicBomb, as made clear as whenever Cameron is finished explaining something, Christian sits back in awe at the incredible wisdom he's just experienced.
* ''Film/SchoolOfRock'':
** Dewey has been bumming at the apartment of Ned and Patty for months if not years, while continually refusing to get a steady job and therefore doing little to contribute to the rent. Ned keeps doing whatever he can to accommodate him because they were in a band years ago, while Patty is just supposed to put up with this. It doesn't change the fact that Patty seems to take joy in Dewey's suffering, but anyone would be frustrated by that point.
** It's hard to blame Dewey's band for firing him -- just watch Dewey in action during the opening scene. The fact that [[spoiler:they win the battle of the bands without him]] only proves their point.
** It doesn't exactly make parents "tightly-wound" for being upset that their kids are learning nothing but rock music, and no academics, for weeks or months on end. Even many rock-loving parents would be bothered by how this would set their kids up for some serious educational problems later in the area (for being behind all the other classes in their grade). They might even sue the school for not checking Dewey's credentials. In their case, it's not as extreme as the others in the movie as they are shown to just want what's best for their kids (as seen by their horrified reaction when Dewey [[ThatCameOutWrong accidentally implies]] he [[MistakenForPedophile molested the students]]).
** Thankfully, the film's final scene shows that [[TakeAThirdOption a compromise is reached]]: [[spoiler: Dewey starts teaching an after-school music class, enabling him to earn his own money while still seeing the kids]].
* In the film version of ''[[Series/ThePhilSilversShow Sgt. Bilko]]'', the villain is a military higher-up who wants to run Bilko out of the Army for essentially running a team of NeighborhoodFriendlyGangsters out of an American military base, and also for getting him blamed for a crime Bilko committed and getting the villain transferred to Alaska. Since this is actually a completely reasonable thing to do from any objective viewpoint, the villain is [[DeliberatelyBadExample made to accomplish his goals through methods even more criminal and underhanded than Bilko's, in order to make sure he doesn't get the audience's sympathy]].
* Captain Skroeder from ''Film/ShortCircuit'' is the movie's villain... who makes the best sense of the characters. After all, he has to deal with a malfunctioning military robot that escaped; a robot that has, for example, no idea about the concept of death. Everyone's lucky it did not end in a major ''Franchise/{{Terminator}}''-style carnage.
* ''Film/SpaceMutiny'' tries to present the mutineers as evil, but look at it from their perspective. They didn't choose to spend their entire life on a ship - that decision was made for them. Space is clearly inhabited beyond the Southern Sun, so why aren't people who want to leave allowed to just leave? It's not hard to see the mutineers as simply trying to escape the flying jail they were unlucky enough to be born in, even if they are going about it in a bad way. The best the movie can muster against them is that the mutineers are wrong because their plans go against some nebulous, ill-defined "law of the universe."
* ''Film/SpyGame''. The CIA officials are shown as ruthless {{Obstructive Bureaucrat}}s that are fully willing to let Tom Bishop be executed. On close examination however:
** Bishop was caught red-handed by the Chinese - a Chinese spy caught red-handed by the US would likely get a life without parole (if s/he were lucky). As cruel as it sounds, this is a professional risk of a spy. Especially for, as Bishop was, operating on a non-official cover.
** No one knows if the Chinese are actually willing to execute Bishop - in diplomatese, such threat is often a call to the bidding table, to see how much the US are willing to sacrifice in order to get their man back. The fact that the CIA officials do not talk about any negotiations does not mean they are not happening. (Especially considering US and China are about to sign a major trade agreement; Bishop's capture is a good opportunity to the Chinese to negotiate some benefits in exchange for the spy.)
** Bishop's action was unauthorized by his superiors - by going rogue, he jeopardized multiple other cover agents in China. [[TheNeedsOfTheMany Sacrificing one agent to save an entire network of spies]] is cold, but hardly irrational.
** [[spoiler:Muir finally saves Bishop by faking a written order and sending a navy SEAL team to retrieve him and Hadley by force. Considered the relations between the US and China at the moment are far from an open military conflict, this is an '''act of war'''. (And it's against a major economic and military power, that is...) It's rather unlikely that Muir began a WWIII, but still, some more or less nasty international repercussions will follow.]]
* ''Film/StarTrekFirstContact'': The movie tries to portray Starfleet Command as being their usual ObstructiveBureaucrat selves when they refuse to allow Captain Picard and the ''Enterprise''-E to join up with the task force intercepting the Borg because they claim he is too unstable when dealing with the Borg. However, while Picard disobeying their orders is what saves the day at the battle of Earth, their fears prove to be well founded when his RevengeBeforeReason mindset nearly hands the Borg victory on a platter later on.
* ''Film/StarTrekInsurrection'': This is a common criticism of the film, as Picard and his crew ''mutiny'' rather than remove people who aren't even native to a planet, number less than 1000, who're sitting on a literal fountain of youth that could save the lives of millions...all during the Dominion War, a conflict the Federation is badly losing at this point, where it could turn the tide in their favor. What's even worse, is that if the Federation and its allies ''lose'' the war, they predict that over a hundred billion people will ''die''. Of course, strawman villains are used to shore up Picard's side as being right - the bad guys are [[KickTheDog dog-kickers]] who want revenge on the pacifist Baku (plus [[BeautyEqualsGoodness they're ugly]]), so by the movie's logic this makes it okay. Even many cast members (including the ''director'', Jonathan Frakes), felt that in this case removing the Baku would have been acceptable. The sad part is that this would have been easily avoided by having the reveal be that the slaving drug dealing Dominion allies they were working with were ''lying'' about the benefits.
* ComicBook/LexLuthor in ''Film/SupermanReturns'' accuses Franchise/{{Superman}} of [[ReedRichardsIsUseless selfishly withholding the advanced alien technology]] he inherited from his dad, so that the planet is forced to [[HoldingOutForAHero stay dependent on Superman]]. While he is probably wrong about Superman's motives, he has a point. Sharing, say, what Kryptonian science knows about medicine or space travel or producing food would probably save a lot more lives than individually putting out fires with super breath. There are a few hints at an explanation in the ''[[Film/SupermanTheMovie first]]'' movie[[note]]there is some form of AlienNonInterferenceClause in place that prohibits Superman from interfering with human history[[/note]], but the lack of detail of what is permitted, why it is in place and how this is supposed to be enforced -- if it even ''has'' enforcement -- leaves it somewhat lacking as a response (in addition to not being raised in the same film).
* In the Killer Bee movie ''Film/TheSwarm'', Creator/MichaelCaine's character, Dr Bradford Crane, is clearly supposed to be the hero and Richard Widmark's General Slater the villain. The trouble is that all of the schemes for dealing with the bees suggested by Slater all seem eminently sensible but are shot down by Crane on the grounds of the "environmental damage" (even after the bees have already [[ArtisticLicenseNuclearPhysics blown up a nuclear reactor]], killing upwards of 30,000 people) whilst none of Crane's schemes actually work until the end. On top of that, Crane defeats the swarm of bees by setting an oil slick on fire, even though that is not exactly great for the environment.
* ''Film/TeachingMrsTingle'': the title character is a high school SadistTeacher who has it in for the lead character, who is just trying to become valedictorian. At the start of the film, Mrs. Tingle gives a C grade to a project she worked six months on, a historical recreation of the diary of a girl [[BurnTheWitch accused of being a witch]] during the time of the 1692 Salem Witch Trials. Except that the diary describes witch-burnings, whereas the accused witches at Salem were all ''hanged'', except for the one man who was crushed[[note]]Technically speaking, he was never tried as a witch, the crushing was because he refused to make a plea[[/note]], meaning the teacher was well within her rights to mark the assignment down. Later, Mrs. Tingle tries to report the lead for cheating -- after she finds a copy of an upcoming test in her backpack. One needn't be a villain not to be convinced by the girl's claim that "Someone else put that there, I didn't want it!"
* In ''Film/TheTimeMachine2002'', the Uber-Morlock is ostensibly heartless for justifying his clan preying on the human Eloi as "800,000 years of evolution," but his arguments come off as far more convincing than those of the protagonist. Alexander simply claims that it's a perversion of natural law, only based on the standards of his time and ignoring what went on for those 800 millennium. On the other hand, the Uber-Morlock retorts that his Time Machine is just as much a perversion, made as an attempt for Alexander to control the world around him, and he goes into detail explaining how fate has led to his current state just as it had led to the Uber-Morlock's existence.
* In ''Film/WaynesWorld'', an "evil" businessman (played by 90s-sleezeball-incarnate Rob Lowe) offers our heroes, Wayne and Garth, a $10,000 advance to do a professionalized version of their public access TV show, securing money to sponsor the show from a successful local businessman. Wayne, addressing the audience in an earlier scene, tells us that this exact scenario is his wildest fantasy. A studio is rented, sets are built, cast and crew (including a professional announcer) are paid, promotions secure a sizable audience, and a premiere date is set. This would be fine if he wanted to be professional, but the changes just make him uncomfortable and not being allowed to mock the sponsor is the last straw that makes him quit. If this was the story of a struggling actor being put on a late-night show, he would look like an uncompromising fool who can't deal with executives when both stand to benefit. It's not, so this subplot gets dropped.
* In the made-for-TV movie ''Film/{{Zenon}}: The [[{{Pun}} Zequel]]'', General Hammond ([[Franchise/StargateVerse no, not that one]]) arrives to decommission the station, which was still suffering the after-effects of the sabotage in the previous film. His actions are seen by the main characters as evil. Here's what he really does: decommission an unstable space station before it falls to Earth, doing untold damage, attempt to apprehend a girl who thinks it's ok to smuggle aboard a shuttle, chase after spaceship thieves, and other actions perfectly in line with what any good soldier or policeman would do.

* The whole Aesop of Anthony Burgess' "A Clockwork Orange" is how evil it is for the state to use mind-altering techniques to cure anti-social behaviour. Yet since the protagonist, Alexander DeLarge spends most of his time pre-treatment in meting out acts of violence to the defenceless, and raping women (including 10 year old children) the reader can't help thinking that perhaps the state has a point.
* In the ''Literature/AnitaBlake'' series Richard (the avatar of the author's ex-husband) frequently rants against the murder, rape, hypocrisy, greed, and general bad behavior of the protagonist, allegedly to show what a self-hating mess he is. He's the only one who makes any kind of logical, intelligent points about the heroine -- and she doesn't even dispute the things he says.
* Happens sometime in the ''Literature/CircleOfMagic'' books. In ''Daja's Book'', the protagonists butt heads with an arrogant University mage named Yarrun [[MeaningfulName Firetamer]]. Yarrun is dead wrong about the fire risk in the valley[[note]]the forest has so much dead brush matter in it from fire suppression that it's more dangerous than ever, a bit of TruthInTelevision[[/note]] [[spoiler:and pays with his life]] but he has an illuminating conversation with Daja in which he points out that workers of "ordinary" magic do ''highly necessary'' work such as sanitation, preventing food spoilage, etcetera, and deserve more credit than they usually get. He also defines learning as "when other people can work their spells as you do and get the same results." Replace "spells" with "experiments" and you have a key part of the Scientific Method. But Daja dismisses his opinions as more "bile". Since the entire main cast has a special affinity (fire/lightning/weaving/plants) that required no training.
* [[Literature/CryptoNomicon Cryptonomicon]] features a crew of vaguely defined academics whose work pretty much boils down to, "So there's a lot of white dudes in science and technology, what's up with that?" The protagonist, a white, male engineer, takes this very personally. But - STEM fields ARE dominated by white men, and women and people of colour in the real world often discuss their struggles with sexism and racism in those fields. The academics' smug attitudes don't mean their underlying point - that systemic injustice exists - is wrong.
** G.E.B. Kivistik is basically a gag character, but once he's actually challenged on his statements, he stops being pretentious and points out that Internet access is a privilege not easily given to, say, the poor, and the advantages it can confer can leave large groups of society behind rapidly while granting enormous advantages to others, which depending on who you ask, has pretty much been what's happened in the ten years since the book was released. Even Stephenson, who is probably trying to load the deck, refers to Randy's defense as "an uncontrollable urge to be a prick." Randy argues that he is not privileged because he had to work hard through college. He doesn't seem to consider the fact that getting to go to college is itself a privilege.
* Creator/FriedrichNietzsche had this reaction to [[Creator/FyodorDostoevsky Dostoevsky's]] Raskolnikov, from ''Literature/CrimeAndPunishment'': Raskolnikov at first believes himself to be an {{Ubermensch}}, but is wracked by guilt and eventually gets his redemption through a religious (specifically Orthodox Christian, as this was Dostoevsky's religion) experience. Nietzsche regarded the religious redemption bit as bull and disdained Raskolnikov's feelings of guilt, but agreed with the unreformed Raskolnikov's Ubermenschian perspective.
* In the second ''Literature/DeathWorld'' book (the Creator/HarryHarrison series), a major character exists solely so the AuthorAvatar can explain to him the virtues of moral relativism. Only problem is, while the character is a dog-kicking DesignatedVillain, the arguments he makes against relativism aren't really shot down, just ignored in favor of the main character being made to look much cooler than him. There is, however, the issue of the character being perfectly willing to kidnap an innocent man and taking him back to be tried in a KangarooCourt followed by a public execution. It's hard to justify this with a "good cause".
* The Dean in ''Literature/TheFountainhead'' exists mainly to mouth bad arguments in favor of classical architecture so that Howard Roark can humiliate him, but his fearful reaction to Roark's total indifference to the thoughts and feelings of others seems totally sensible given that that kind of chill, unemotional disregard is generally associated with sociopathy. Roark also destroys the building for no other reason than personal pique.
* In ''Literature/TheGiver'', Jonas' parents claiming that "do you love me?" is a meaningless question and suggesting a few more specific ones like "do you cherish me?" is treated as a horrifying sign that they [[MeasuringTheMarigolds don't understand love]]. However, it might be argued that a parent who cherishes and takes pride in their child does indeed love that child according to any reasonable definition, and that it's not the worst thing in the world if they prefer to focus on their specific, individual feelings rather than using the blanket term for them. The idea that they do love him but choose to phrase things differently also isn't absurd. For example, witness how many languages don't have perfect translations for one another's words. Thus while the ''word'' love might be out of common use, that hardly means that the idea is.
* In ''Literature/HarryPotter'', several strawmen make pretty good points.
** Zacharias Smith is skeptical about Harry's version of events after ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' and is portrayed as a JerkAss for not immediately believing Harry. But he doesn't have the privileged viewpoint of the readership, and Harry has been very close-mouthed about what happened. [[note]] Note that Zacharias only showed up to ask Harry to tell his version of events, and immediately complaining upon hearing them makes him look like an UngratefulBastard. [[/note]] Later books show him to be a Jerkass for other reasons, such as providing a more biased commentary for a Quidditch match then Lee Jordan and being the first to [[DirtyCoward bail at the Battle of Hogwarts.]]
** When Voldemort is giving his NewEraSpeech when he thinks he's won in ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows'', he sets fire to the Sorting Hat and announces that from then on all students will be in Slytherin. This is presented as a [[AmbitionIsEvil terrible horrible thing]]... except that the house system ''is'' divisive, serves no point save to perpetuate the founders' disagreement over who should be accepted to Hogwarts, and even the Sorting Hat, whose sole purpose in life is to assign new students to the houses, thinks it's gone too far and there needs to be greater unity. The problem with the original system is that grouping students based on attributes can help them focus on their strengths, and house rivalry can make students work harder in the spirit of competition, but when you put BOTH of these together it means students are discouraged from learning anything other than their house specialty. A Ravenclaw might be smart, but good luck getting study tips from one when house points are on the table since you'd be asking them to help their own rivals. Putting everyone in one house could hardly make things worse, and in fact actually improve school unity.
** [[SadistTeacher Severus Snape's]] views about Harry are regarded in the books and by readers as being highly biased and insensitive, but when he calls Harry a mediocre wizard who survived thanks to sacrifices by better wizards, you realize Harry never truly achieved anything by his own skill, talent and abilities. With the exception of Quidditch, which developed because he was "naturally gifted" ([[spoiler:he had prior broom riding experience so he "knew what to do" even though he couldn't remember when he had ridden prior to Hogwarts]]), Harry is mostly a middling student, not significantly different than Ron or Neville, and [[BrilliantButLazy constantly slacks off on his studies]]. As far as his Defense Abilities goes, he always had the AdvantageBall since the Death Eaters were ordered by Voldemort [[LeaveHimToMe not to kill him]], and Harry was specially protected against Voldemort by advanced magic nobody knew a lot about. The only times Harry fights duel against competent opponents [[spoiler: are Order Of The Phoenix where his successful good use of his environment is negated by [=LeStrange=]'s superior spell casting and Half-Blood Prince where he is on the wrong end of a CurbstompBattle at the hand of Snape]]. Compared to the magic done by his parents' generation at Hogwarts,[[note]]James and his friends had made themselves animagi whilst still at Hogwarts, while the teenage Snape was creating his own curses and making improvements to official potion recipes[[/note]] not to mention Grindlewald, Riddle and Dumbledore at the same age, Harry's unimpressive in terms of creative ability and skills. Even with Quidditch, as gifted as Harry is, Gryffindor managed to win the Cup twice without him, which shows Harry isn't exceptionally gifted in any area and is more a JackOfAllStats who gets by through luck to find a PlotCoupon. In fact, [[spoiler: Harry ultimately triumphs over Voldemort not because of his superior talent, but because Voldemort makes a major mistake by using Harry's blood in his resurrection and is arguably brought down by his own blindness and arrogance.]].
** Likewise, Snape keeps bullying Hermione by calling her an insufferable know-it-all, but has Hermione ever really created and innovated in magic? Most of the time she recreates spells and potions described in books perfectly but she hasn't really demonstrated ability to, say, improve potions experiments. Likewise, she readily dismisses areas of magic that are unknown or experimental (for example, she dismisses the idea that there could be unregistered animagi in the world simply because a book lists them all, and dismisses the Deathly Hallows as a hoax despite the evidence of the Invisibility Cloak in front of her).
** The Minister of Magic's claim in the fifth book that they need to interfere in Hogwarts in order to fix various problems with the way the school is run. Fudge is doing it more for personal gain and paranoia about Dumbledore but some argue that if a real school was run like Hogwarts (for example, letting a teacher bring dangerous animals to class), it probably would have been shut down.
** ''Order of the Phoenix'' plays Harry's feeling that AdultsAreUseless very straight, with Dumbledore admitting at the end that he shouldn't have kept secrets from him all the time and that it made things a whole lot worse. The thing is, even leaving aside Voldemort's scar-hotline, Harry is [[HotBlooded highly hot-tempered]], doesn't show any control over his emotions, repeatedly ignores warnings from people he respects (such as [=McGonagall=] who politely tries to warn him about Umbridge), has a huge {{Martyr|WithoutACause}}-Complex, then openly gets goaded in front of all of Hogwarts to punch an opponent on the Quidditch pitch. In real life, anyone with Harry's form of temperament would not be considered as a trusted member of any team or organization, leave alone an underground anti-government group.
* In Creator/IsabelAllende's ''Literature/TheHouseOfTheSpirits'', Esteban Trueba's feudalistic views on his workers are unacceptable by today's standards. Still, it would indeed be quite idealistic (if not downright unreasonable) to believe that barely literate people are fully qualified to participate in political life. Apparently it never occurs to him (or more likely, this was the entire point) that they won't get to be qualified by being kept out, either. Increased education for the peasants might help, but of course Don Trueba would hardly support that.
* In the ''Literature/InheritanceCycle'', [[BigBad Galbatorix]] can be seen as this. While later books established him as being thoroughly evil and tyrannical, his depiction in early books left him looking pretty good for many readers. His rise to power (in which he won humanity's superiority over the elves and killed the all-powerful dragon riders) is portrayed as a MoralEventHorizon, and he wants to stomp out the [[OurOrcsAreDifferent urgals]], a warlike species whose rite of passage is to find something, ''anything'', and ''kill it''. He's done plenty of unsavory things and isn't to be praised, but he's made humanity safe and superior, and even his enemies acknowledge that his insanity doesn't touch most of his subjects. And he is the established power, with a clear-cut law, as opposed to the [[DesignatedHero Varden]], who will gladly accept you into their group provided you A.) follow your flawed and suicidal orders to the letter, and B.) be sure to ''always'' shower praise on [[SociopathicHero Eragon]], the [[CantArgueWithElves elves]], and your [[InformedAbility visionary leader]], Nasuada. In the end it isn't so much that the Strawman Has A Point, but that the other side is so self-righteous and annoying the reader finds it hard to root for them.
* In ''LARP: The Battle for Verona'', the main characters' home, the island of Verona outside of Washington, is invaded by Mongolians who use Medieval weapons, and the main characters, who have no military or combat training, but who do Live-Action Role Playing, want to help free it. The US military gives very good reasons for them ''not'' to -- i.e., they're citizens with no military or combat training, no real weapons and no guarantee they could get any, no real idea what they're going up against, and any action they might take in their ignorance might make the situation worse, including getting the people of Verona killed. The "argument" the main characters put forth essentially comes down to "we just want to be cool" and that they're somehow more qualified to attack people who use Medieval weapons because they use replica Medieval weapons once a week. Somehow the military thinks these are good points and lets the main characters and their LARP friends go in to save Verona.
** Especially considering that most LARP combat is *not* realistic. Different systems have different rules and weapons, but in general they tend to reward unrealistic fighting styles that would get you killed in real-life. For example, most systems require only a "tap" to confirm a hit, and make the head an illegal target. As a result, game-play tends to favor light cherry-taps and leaving the head unguarded in favor of protecting other body parts that do count as legal targets.
* This is a problem with the ''Literature/LeftBehind'' series, as noted in [[http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/category/left-behind/ Slacktivist's deconstruction]]. The main heroes are such {{Jerk Sue}}s that many of the people with whom they argue come off looking much better by comparison. For example, in the first chapter, a drunk Texan wakes up and sees the carnage wrought by the Rapture (plane crashes, etc). He is mocked as a silly drunk by the narrators, but he is ''[[OnlySaneMan the only one]]'' to express any sort of horror at the proceedings. In the next book, we are clearly supposed to cheer for the alleged hero as he is insubordinate to his boss -- whose main crime seems to be being a woman who does not fawn over him and expects him to do his job. Verna is constantly presented as a no-fun, uppity woman who thinks Buck is a pompous {{Jerkass}}, and she's right.
* In ''Literature/TheFinalWarning'', Max is furious that, after she and the Flock come to the government's attention, they would ''dare'' to try to put them in a boarding school. A few of their concerns -- being told they would be studied to a certain extent, etc. -- were valid, given [[PlayingWithSyringes their history]]. Several others not so much, especially when Max basically tells them "we've had it harder than you and we know better". It's kind of difficult to argue that they are properly prepared to move to civilian life when they decide to dive-bomb the Pentagon ''for amusement'' and then are ''surprised'' that there's retaliation.
* In Creator/JohnMilton's ''Literature/ParadiseLost'', Satan argues against God by invoking democracy, free speech and egalitarianism. This sounds more plausible nowadays that it would have at the time. The speech is so persuasive that a lot of critics think it's meant to be that way, for one reason or another. However Satan states in the speech there can be superiors and inferiors because he doesn't want his angels to revolt against him, and later admits he's just being a jerk to humanity because they have Paradise while he doesn't. This very well may have been intentional, considering Milton's political ideas.
* The [[BigBad Pale Woman]] in the ''Literature/RealmOfTheElderlings'' novel ''Fool's Fate'' actually has a very good point: reviving an apex predator with the capacity to wipe out humanity and no real reason not to is a pretty darned stupid idea. It is primarily the political implications that drive Fitz to oppose her, though.
* ''Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse'':
** In the first half of the ''Literature/NewJediOrder'' series, there's a schism in the Jedi Order over whether or not it is acceptable to use [[PointlessDoomsdayDevice leftover Imperial projects and superweapons]] against the Yuuzhan Vong. The Jedi in favor are called radicals and, just to make sure we know that their viewpoint is immoral and evil, the authors made them willing to kidnap children and perform other heinous acts to get what they want. No one, including Luke, seems to be able to explain to us how killing Yuuzhan Vong with superlasers is more evil than fighting them with conventional weapons. Later authors in the series recognize this as a strawman and offer the argument of superweapons being [[AwesomeButImpractical inefficient wastes of resources]][[note]]another squadron of warships is a more versatile use of money and manpower than a Death Star[[/note]] that are for terrorizing civilians[[note]]Yuuzhan Vong civilians aren't in a position to affect policy[[/note]], not fighting wars. %%Please don't expand this any further.
** In the ''Literature/FateOfTheJedi'' series, Galactic Alliance Chief of State Natasi Daala enacts various policies to rein in what she sees as the unchecked power that the Jedi have within the Galactic Alliance. Coming off a major galactic civil war started by a corrupted Jedi who enacted a coup and seized control of the Alliance, she is not entirely without precedent or reason to be concerned over potentially uncontrolled actions by Force users. These policies grow excessively draconian and begin to cost her public opinion due to various publicized incidents, most notably the leader of her Mandalorian commandos cold-bloodedly shooting an unarmed young woman who'd come in peace. However, instead of using the mounting public pressure and political scandals resulting from her actions to legally rein in Daala's excesses (as had already proved effective in overturning the siege of the Jedi Temple and dissolving the [[KangarooCourt Court of Jedi Affairs]]), the Jedi embark on a coup to remove her from power that involves taking hostages, attacking government facilities, killing the appointed acting Grand Master of the Jedi, Kenth Hamner, and removing Daala from power to install Hamner's killer as part of an acting Triumvirate over the Alliance.
* ''Literature/TheTurnerDiaries'': A strawman proclaims the "[[DesignatedHero heroes]]" of the book as "depraved, racist criminals." He's supposed to be a strawman, yet this is a 100% accurate description of the "heroic" white supremacist RightWingMilitiaFanatic group known as the Order (that went on to inspire an actual group of depraved, racist terrorists by the same name, whose exploits included murdering a critical Jewish talk show host in his own driveway).
* ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'': Anyone who disagrees with or doesnt like Bella is automatically wrong, no matter how right they are.
** In the novel ''New Moon'', Bella is annoyed that Jessica won't talk to her, and thinks that Jessica is being petty and evil. This is after Bella has ignored everyone for four months, used Jessica to get Charlie off her back, ditched her shortly into the movie to pine over Edward, and then nearly frightened Jessica to death by walking up to a very dangerous-looking biker in a bad part of town that Jessica clearly wanted to avoid, all because Bella thought it may be the same one that Edward rescued her from before.
** In ''Breaking Dawn'', Leah calls Bella out on some of her more selfish actions in trying to manipulate and keep Jacob with her despite knowing full well how much it hurts Jacob to be around her knowing that she's chosen to die and become an undead monstrosity with Edward over a life with him. Even Bella admits that she's being selfish, but [[IgnoredEpiphany chooses to keep doing it anyway]]. Everyone else gets angry at Leah for upsetting Bella, [[UngratefulBastard including the guy Leah was trying to stand up for]]. And any point Leah made is completely forgotten.
** The part where Aro says that humans now have technology that could be used to hurt or kill vampires, so since there's no way of knowing that Renesmee will always be able to keep vampires a secret she's a vulnerability. The response to this is something along the lines of "Aro is a big mean jerk who just wants to destroy the Cullen family for loving each other" and nobody bothers to refute his point until Alice conveniently shows up with another half-vampire. Aro is actually kind of right, though, especially since Renesmee's superpower involves sharing her thoughts with people, and her power is suspected to be an inversion of Bella's, which Bella finds out she can project her power over an area (if she ever experiences any PowerIncontinence she could end up accidentally sharing random things with random humans). Of course, if that was his concern, 99% of their race ''eating'' humans on a regular basis had far more potential for exposing them while guaranteeing that humans would not recognize them as {{Friendly Neighborhood Vampire}}s and would probably try to wipe them out.
** Charlie gets both this and InformedWrongness. His daughter is creepily obsessed with a guy who has never displayed any attributes aside from being equally creepily obsessed with her and being an asshole, and gives him no reason to assume he isn't an abuser (which, by real world standards, he is). The narrative pretty clearly wants the reader to side against Charlie, even when Bella and Edward team up to casually manipulate and bully him into letting her do whatever she wants. In ''New Moon'' he's trying to get Bella help when she's clearly depressed, pointing out (correctly) that she's just going through the motions and that it would be better if she lived with her mother rather than staying in the town that has too many painful memories. The readers are supposed to side with Bella, who refuses to move on with her life.
* An in-universe example appears in Creator/GeorgeOrwell's ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', in the form of Emmanuel Goldstein, a strawman politician invented by the ruling party in order to draw out dissidents. Orwell uses Goldstein in order to set out his own views of totalitarian societies; in the book he is entirely correct, but the authorities do not even try to suppress his message. Instead, they attempt to condition the population into being unable to comprehend an objective reality.
* In ''Discworld/ThiefOfTime'', Susan's boss is depicted as a hopeless mess of an educator because her school uses the "learning through play" method. It's claimed that parents send their children there only as a last resort when "normal" methods fail. This seems to be a dig at non-traditional educational systems such as the Montessori method, with an added insinuation that any good teacher can make any five-year-old sit in a desk and learn arithmetic from a lecture. However, increasing bodies of evidence indicate traditional methods aren't actually the most effective (not to mention that some children genuinely have special needs and straight-up can't cope in a traditional learning environment). Some non-traditional methods have actually shown to be highly effective at teaching skills like reading. They're also hardly the product of newfangled hippie thinking; Maria Montessori established her first Casa de Bambini before World War One. Not that Susan uses traditional methods herself, of course. She's basically a slightly more stern version of [[Literature/TheMagicSchoolBus Ms. Frizzle]].
* The Older Son in the parable of the Prodigal Son in ''Literature/TheBible'' is probably one of the oldest examples. The guy mostly exists to complain about the fact that his turd of a little brother is getting all the respect for dragging his sorry butt home after wasting all his inheritance money, while the older son has been obedient and worked hard all his life and has never been rewarded. Dad scolds him for not celebrating that his brother is once again part of the family. Yeah, it's a metaphor about the value and meaning of repentance, but the older son does have a point: why bother working hard when the rewards for being a turd are so much better? (Although the father does point out that the older brother will still be getting all of the remaining inheritance, and he's just happy to have his other son back.)
* In ''Literature/{{Dragonlance}}'', especially the original novels by Weis & Hickman, one is supposed to take the viewpoint that the gods are patient, long-suffering parents who have been wrongfully scorned by their mortal children, and that those mortals who argue that the gods are the ones who have done wrong and do not deserve mortal reverence, like Tanis Half-Elven, are misguided fools at best. Thing is, the story of the Cataclysm essentially involves the gods devastating the world with a massive destructive event, stealing away all sources of healing magic beforehand, and then, when the angry survivors demand to know why the gods have done this to them, the gods respond by turning their backs on mortalkind and leaving them to suffer without healing spells for centuries after. It's hard to not feel ay that the mortals have ''legitimate reasons'' to be angry with their gods at this point... but the authors of course fully support the viewpoint that the gods are in the right and so events proceed accordingly.
* The Children of the Light in ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'' are portrayed as a KnightTemplar organization with a high population of {{Tautological Templar}}s, whose belief that MagicIsEvil leads them to oppose the Aes Sedai and other channelers as a matter of course. Meanwhile, the Aes Sedai are at least twenty times as likely as the general population to be sworn to the [[GodOfEvil Dark One]], [[spoiler:the evil Black Ajah controls many high-ranking positions within the Aes Sedai, and the new organization of male channelers is run by a ranking servant of the Dark One who [[ReforgedIntoAMinion forcibly recruits a large chunk of his subordinates]]]]. Factoring in Aes Sedai's habit of outright [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveSupernaturalPowers ignoring local laws]], to the extent of kidnapping reigning monarchs for their bargaining power, one starts to sympathize with the Children.
* The Department of Homeland Security in ''Literature/LittleBrother'' are painted as being corrupt figures for putting the city under heavy surveillance and spying on Marcus. However, their security measures were done after a major terrorist attack occurred, so they're really just doing their jobs to protect the country. Them keeping Marcus in custody for so long and spying on him is justified too, since all he did in the first few chapters of the book was make himself look suspicious. He used his hacking skills to cut school, and as his principal implied, he used hacking multiple times before to screw around in school. When he was being interrogated, he refused to hand his phone over to the BigBad. Not because he had anything incriminating or personal on it, but because of the principle of privacy. Marcus is supposed to be sympathized with for what he goes through, but most of his problems are self-inflicted, so he basically declared war on the government because they were inconveniencing him, or because of his own stupidity. Marcus's father is also depicted as a narrow-minded idiot for supporting the DHS's extreme actions, but Marcus failed to understand that his parents were worried sick about him because he went missing during a terrorist attack.
* Literature/TheLegendOfDrizzt draws major parallels between the bigotry experienced by the drow (dark elf) Drizzt Do'Urden because of his dark skin and the bigotry people of color frequently encounter in real life. We're meant to sympathize with Drizzt when people react with hate and fear when they first meet him, simply because of his skin color. The analogy becomes a lot more awkward though, when you consider that 99.9% of all drow really ''do'' live up (down?) to their race's stereotype of being hateful, murderous, demon-worshiping sociopaths. People who meet Drizzt and don't know him don't necessarily have any reason to believe that he's any different than any other drow, particularly if they've already been threatened by the drow at some point.
* In ''The Story of B'', the sequel to ''{{Literature/Ishmael|1992}}'', someone asks B why, if increasing food production simply causes population rates to rise as he claims, countries like Germany have zero population growth (others such as Japan even have ''negative'' population growth). B basically says [[{{Handwave}} "If you look into this more, you'll see I'm right"]], with no actual answer to something that would refute his entire claim.

[[folder:Live-Action TV]]
* ''Series/TwentyFour'':
** On at least one occasion, the audience is supposed to support Jack in his hatred of the 'wishy washy liberal human rights lawyer' who (quite correctly) calls Jack on his tendency to illegally hold people with no firm evidence and then torture them into giving him information. In Season 4, Jack even yells "How can you sleep at night!" at a human rights lawyer brought in to defend one of Jack's prisoners who has every right to have an attorney. Season 7 attempts to address this tendency with a few scenes of introspection but ultimately still cheers Jack on as he runs around shooting and kidnapping people. Jack has had torture fail before, and at least on one occasion tortured someone who really didn't know anything, but the writers didn't do more than have Jack angst instead of showing real consequences of using torture that have been around since Medieval Europe -- not that it can make people tell you the truth, but that it can make people tell you ''anything you want'', even if they're not actually guilty of anything. Police states make use of torture not primarily for obtaining information, but confessions, which can be trotted out as "proof" later.
** In Season 5, Lynn [=McGill=] is portrayed as being mentally unstable for accusing almost every single member of CTU of conspiring against him. However, since many of them, from Buchanan on down ''are'' seen to have been conspiring against [=McGill=], or at least keeping vital information from him, he does have something of a point.
** Ryan Chappelle. The regional division director of CTU comes in to assume control of the Los Angeles branch on several occasions throughout the first three seasons, and is often chastised or made to be in the wrong for taking a by-the-book approach to terrorist situations:
*** In season one, Jack Bauer is placed in CTU custody after rescuing his family from Ira Gaines. Chappelle comes in and debriefs him, but when Jack asks to be reinstated, the director says that he broke too many protocols and can't be brought back on active duty. The only reason Jack later gets reinstated is because David Palmer pulls rank and has a friend from Washington call the director to force him to reinstate his agent. This is despite Chappelle having spent the previous hour soliciting opinions from Jack's co-workers before making any decision. Chappelle then (correctly) points out later that Jack's involvement has resulted in him being captured after discovering Victor Drazen's location, and CTU has to bail him out. Although Chappelle doesn't authorize the hostage exchange for Alexis Drazen, Palmer once again goes over his head and convinces George Mason to authorize it.
*** In season two, Chappelle appears again after CTU is bombed. For his part in asking the staff to continue planning a military assault on several nations that were believed to have contributed to a plan to detonate a nuke on U.S. soil, he gets drugged and placed in a closet. Later, he arrests Tony and Michelle Dessler after he wakes up and is once again made out to be the bad guy for stalling their operation, even though he thought he was the director and no one bothered to sway his opinion before the duo knocked him out.
*** In the third season, he's made to look insensitive (and is called out by several people) because he fires Chloe O'Brien for taking care of a baby during office hours. He's ''right'', though - one of his lead analysts is distracted by a baby at a time when a terrorist is conducting chemical attacks on American soil, and their lead resource (Jack) is in a precarious position in a South American country.
** In season seven, Senator Mayer is clearly supposed to be seen in the wrong for wanting to put Jack on trial after CTU is disbanded (and is shocked when Jack calls the trial an "agenda" and smirks at him). Mayer is right, though - aside from the instance pointed out above where Jack tortured a suspect, there are several other borderline-illegal interrogations done over the course of the series. Mayer is also supposed to be evil because he shut down CTU, but he's quite justified. CTU was the site of many inside moles working for the enemy, incompetence, internal sabotage, [[SwissCheeseSecurity several terrorist attacks]], a civilian shooting a terrorist, car crashes and much more. After that kind of track record, its a surprise they weren't shut down or reformed earlier.
* ''Series/AllInTheFamily'' had this problem a few times. Audiences were always supposed to see Archie Bunker as wrong, no matter what, even if he actually made more sense than Mike. The worst is the infamous exchange in "Archie and the KKK Part 1" where Mike tries to justify people looting and stealing because they were poor and needed it. Archie rightfully points out that it's still stealing, and most of the people that did steal didn't steal living necessities like food and clothing, they stole frivolous luxury goods like cars.
-->'''Mike:''' Arch, poor people steal, hungry people steal!
-->'''Archie:''' Oh yeah? That's why in that July blackout there they drove fifty cars out of the showrooms on account of they had a craving to eat a Pontiac.?
-->'''Mike:''' Yes they have a craving, because the media advertisers create that craving! They tell the people what they should want, and they tell them that they're nothing unless they run right out and get it! Well what the hell are they supposed to do?
-->'''Archie:''' They're supposed to go out and work for a buck!
** Mike then claims there are no jobs available, to which Archie points out that there are in fact jobs available. They may be blue collar jobs that are unpleasant and not glamorous, but they are there and will accept anyone willing to do a hard day's work for an honest paycheck. Archie himself was a high school dropout who had been working blue collar jobs since he was a teenager to support his family and he was able to put a roof over their heads and food on the table.
** In another episode, Archie makes surprising salient points about how big corporations encouraged everyone to buy electronic products, and even made life difficult without them, only to, once they'd made their "billions and billions of dollars," turn around and start demanding that people ''save'' energy and go without.
** Archie is made to be a racist idiot just because he doesn't want to eat his Chinese food with chopsticks in "Mike Meets Archie." The fact is that most Westerners simply don't know how to use chopsticks correctly. All Archie wanted was a fork to eat the food that he probably paid for, and he was still given a bunch of crap.
* ''Series/AllMyChildren'': Adam Chandler finds out that his ex-wife Dixie has been sleeping around and that her latest conquest is an 18-year-old boy. At this, he files for full custody of their son. Everyone in town sees him as an evil bastard and her as a sweet, innocent victim when he has every right to be concerned about her fitness as a parent.
** Most [[SoapOpera soaps]] have shades of this, the other ". . .Has A Point" tropes, and the DesignatedVillain trope. A second look at many of their storylines will find that the supposed bad guys were actually right.
* ''Series/BabylonFive'':
** During a FlashForward to a hundred years in the future, where historians are debating the role and morality of the actions of Sheridan and his disciples, an [[spoiler:aged Delenn]] tells them off for talking drivel and listening only to what they want to hear. But from the point of view of real historiography they're presenting valid viewpoints given the data available to them. After all, extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence, and given how momentous Sheridan's actions were it would be very ''un''professional for a historian to unquestioningly buy into the story. On the other hand, [[spoiler:Delenn was a close friend, confidant, and lover of Sheridan, so it's understandable that she'd stick up for all of the friends and family she had at that time]]. Doesn't mean that she's ''right'' for doing this, but it makes her position a little more reasonable. The charitable interpretations of the scene run head on into J Michael Straczynski's [[WordOfGod own words]] in the DVDCommentary, in which he outright declares that the scene was an expression of his disgust with historians who try to explain events in terms of large-scale social, economic and geopolitical forces, who he thinks are pathetic losers who just want to tear down the Great People who achieved things.
** Garibaldi and Sheridan's fight in Season 4. Later it's revealed that Garibaldi had been [[BrainwashedAndCrazy manipulated by telepaths]] and they make up after Garibaldi apologizes. Upon reflection, though, Garibaldi's critiques of Sheridan make a lot of sense - Sheridan really is building a huge army loyal to him personally, he's encouraging or at least allowing a cult of personality to build up around him stating that he has mystical powers, and he's leaving his friends and co-officers out of the decision making process. Since Sheridan's a fictional character he never abuses his position, but he continues to wield massive, essentially unchecked personal power from this point for the rest of his [[YourDaysAreNumbered remaining lifespan]]. In real life, Garibaldi would be perfectly correct to not approve of this, and Sheridan never really addresses concerns on these points.
* ''Series/BattlestarGalactica2003'':
** Before he leaps headlong into the MoralEventHorizon by [[spoiler:massacring the Quorum of Twelve]], Tom Zarek seems to be the OnlySaneMan among the upper political leadership. For a season-and-a-half, he assumes the role of Vice President and has legitimate grounds on two occasions to be named President in Roslin's absence, but is overruled by Bill and/or Lee for little reason beyond "Bill doesn't like you". He is then forced to spend his time placating the Quorum and lobbying Lee as an ally while the command crew gives more and more preferential treatment to the Cylons (the enemy who's been hunting them throughout the series), culminating in Galactica attempting to force ships throughout the fleet to accept Cylon upgrades. Yet, he's made to seem in the wrong because he's not kowtowing to Roslin and Bill and responding on behalf of many ships throughout the fleet.
* ''Film/TheBeast'': [[http://www.jabootu.com/beast.htm This review]] of this MadeForTVMovie points how the characterization in the film suffers badly from this trope. We are meant to cheer for the DesignatedHero Whip Dalton and boo the DesignatedVillain Schuyler Graves. Unfortunately, practically the only sign we're given that Graves is evil is when he's criticizing Whip for destroying a raft that Graves was trying to claim as his property -- perfectly legitimately in accordance with maritime law.
* ''Series/BeverlyHills90210'''s infamous "Donna Martin Graduates" storyline, though it's More like "Strawman Is ''Absolutely Right''", with a little DesignatedVillain and UnintentionallyUnsympathetic thrown in. The school administration explicitly warns the students that having or consuming alcohol at the senior prom is strictly forbidden and that anyone breaking this rule will be suspended, barred from graduation activities, and have to attend summer school. So Donna gets drunk, gets the punishment. . . and we're supposed to feel sorry for her and see the administration as the bad guys? Um, ''no''. Donna's mother Felice was also frequently portrayed as an overbearing bitch, and she was portrayed this way again during this storyline. But she has every right to be angry at the parents who served her underage daughter alcohol and at Donna herself, who drank the champagne.
* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'':
** The Knights of Byzantium in season 5 are pretty harsh: they plan on killing Buffy's younger sister, "The Key", to prevent a Hellgod from another dimension from using her to open a portal back to her dimension that would plunge this world into chaos. As hard as it is to blame Buffy for defending her sister and going against this, the fact remains that in doing so she is risking the fate of the entire world merely to attempt to save one magically created metaphysical entity that Buffy falsely believes to be her sister. Looking at things from a rational standpoint, what the Knights are trying to do makes perfect sense, and in fact Buffy comes to agree with that after a few years of CharacterDevelopment, telling Giles in season 7 that if given the choice again she would sacrifice Dawn for the good of the world.
** The Social Worker from the episode "[[Recap/BuffyTheVampireSlayerS6E11Gone Gone]]". We're meant to hate her for making Buffy's life harder and cheer Buffy on when she's invisible and gets revenge, but really, Buffy's in no state to look after a teenage girl with issues, even if she is her sister, especially considering the way she handled that was by making the social worker look like she was insane to her boss. Way to make sure that other children are being looked after, Buffy.
** Xander is portrayed as a Strawman after the initial shock and dismay of Angel being back from hell has worn off on the Scoobies. The audience is supposed to feel that Xander is just being jealous and can't understand the love that Buffy and Angel share. Except that he is totally correct in that Angel is a huge threat, which he proved in the previous season when he lost his soul. [[EasilyForgiven Everyone eventually gets over the fact that they were tortured or attacked]] except for Xander and brings up that Buffy should slay or at the very least not be in contact with him several times over the next few episodes, for which Willow and Buffy admonish him. Buffy assures them that she is keeping things professional, but every time we see them they are making out. This wouldn't be a problem if she knew exactly how far she could go before he would lose his soul, but the terms of his curse are vague at best and it can be broken by other means.
** Ironically, Buffy and Xander end up on the opposite side of the argument when it turns out that Anya, Xander's vengeance demon ex-fiance, is responsible for several deaths. Buffy instantly decides she's a danger and needs to be killed, Xander disagrees because... well, it's the person he's in love with this time and anyway they're kind of used to their friends turning evil by now. In the end, Willow decides to TakeAThirdOption.
** Willow's first meeting with the Wiccan group where she meets Tara. The Wiccans dismiss Willow for suggesting they try actual magic, as they would do in any real life school. They're portrayed as being close-minded posers, despite the {{masquerade}} being in effect and as far as they're concerned, Willow's suggestion is no more valid than it would be in real life. Also worth noting that Wicca is a real life religion. And while they do believe in magic as part of their faith, expecting them to be magic practitioners because of that is... potentially offensive.
* ''Series/{{Carrusel}}'': Jorge tells on Bibi, since Bibi was cheating on a test. The audience is supposed to take Bibi's side, since Jorge is such an abominable character overall. But cheating is wrong. It is unfair for Bibi to cheat and get away with it. And at age 9, nobody will be faulted for saying it loud and immediately instead of waiting till later and telling the teacher in private.
* ''Series/{{Castle}}'': Captain Gates is seen as a hard-ass who wants Castle gone from the precinct, in direct opposition to former Captain Montgomery's permissive role with him. She is seen as only keeping him on at the Mayor's word, and each time she can (when Beckett's not officially in the precinct anymore) she jettisons him. But of course she has the point that Castle's not a cop and shouldn't be there when the person he's basing his novels on is not in the precinct...no matter how helpful he truly is to the investigation.
* ''Series/{{Casualty}}'': One rather odd storyline expected the audience to hate locum consultant Dominic Carter because registrar Tom Kent holds a grudge against him for an incident when Dominic covered up a mistake made by a junior colleague and Tom reported him. Yet most of the time Dominic was the one in the right. He treats a teenage girl who fell down some stairs for the injuries she sustained and tells her to see her GP about feeling unwell. She later turns out to have meningitis but she was showing no symptoms when Dominic examined her. When Tom calls Dominic out on this, Dominic points out Tom also failed to diagnose her so Tom punches him, escaping punishment after a half-hearted apology. Then Dominic wants to declare a baby with severe hypothermia dead but Tom insists on continuing with a resuscitation and gets his heart going again. He's hailed as a hero but Dominic rightly points out the child is still seriously ill and even if he survives will probably be brain-damaged. Dominic is promptly sacked as a liability. To compound the problem, Tom then tries to attack colleague Dylan Keogh simply because he told the truth when questioned about Tom punching Dominic and ''Dylan'' resigns (although that's mostly down to not being able to work with Tom when he's sleeping with Dylan's ex-wife), meaning Tom has cost the department two doctors. Who exactly is the liability?
* ''Series/CriminalMinds'': Any time anyone doubts the legitimacy of offender profiling, particularly when it's the only evidence for an arrest. In real life, [[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/11/12/071112fa_fact_gladwell profiling has never been proved to be effective and tests show "experts" have no more success with it than laymen]]. In the episode "Tabula Rasa" there is an especially egregious example where Hotchner is testifying at a criminal trial. When the defense lawyer claims that the FBI's "profilers" are doing is simply [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Reading cold reading]], Hotchner responds by cold reading the defense lawyer. This of course defeats this lawyer despite actually proving his point. Even though Hotchner was correct in his predictions, this does not prove anything of value. If that was a real defense lawyer of any skill, he should have called a fake psychic to do the exact same thing as a rebuttal witness. Of course at the end of the episode, as always, they end up proving themselves correct with other evidence.
** InUniverse: during "25 to Life", the team deduces the correct [=UnSub=] via the profile but are stopped from arresting him by [[DaChief Erin Strauss]], who points out that they have no actual physical evidence. This is the only time the team is prevented an arrest after profiling the right criminal [[spoiler:a situation that came up because the profiled criminal is a Congressman, someone they'd need to be ''sure'' is guilty before trying anything with him. The team eventually gets around this by confronting the Congressman while he was hosting a party, showing off his hand which has scars on it that gives the team the evidence it needs to arrest him]].
** In early seasons the team's initial profiles being so general that local law enforcement pointed out that they applied to half the people in the area was actually a minor running gag.
* ''Series/TheDailyShow'': On the [[http://www.cc.com/video-clips/gmgfdo/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-conservative-libertarian March 18, 2010 episode]], while making fun of Radio/GlennBeck making fun of progressives, Jon Stewart {{lampshade|Hanging}}s this when he says "Hmm... Strawman-[[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Slippery-Slope-]][[DumbassHasAPoint Dumb-Guy]] might have a point."
* ''Series/TheDefenders2017'':
** ''Series/Daredevil2015'': Ben Urichís boss Mitchell Ellison was right not to print Ben's article on Wilson Fisk killing his father, as he said it was completely on the hearsay of Fisk's senile mother. Unlike his article on Union Allied, all of Ben's articles up until that point were completely from informant testimony with no hard evidence. Ben is trying to take down a major criminal who's got good publicity with the press, using nothing but hearsay, and wonders why no one would listen. The show itself seems to acknowledge this as Ellison is ultimately revealed to only be a RedHerring for Fisk's actual mole at the paper, meaning everything he said was genuine.
** ''Series/LukeCage2016'':
*** Rafael Scarfe may be crooked and [[DirtyCop on Cottonmouth's payroll]], but when he makes remarks after Luke's raid on Crispus Attucks about why he celebrates [[CopsNeedTheVigilante a vigilante helping cops out after years of investigation with no payoff]], his argument makes a lot of sense. ''Especially'' when corruption is InherentInTheSystem and {{Differently Powered Individual}}s exist everywhere. It helps that there were no deaths, so even if he wasn't trained like Misty complained, Luke was able to go in a place full of armed gangsters without any real danger. Sure, Scarfe is corrupt, and he basically advocates the NYPD giving up and HoldingOutForAHero, but until they find a secret MugglePower (which ultimately turns out to be Diamondback's Judas bullets), it's not like they can do anything about it.
*** Another instance occurs in the final episode with Misty. Inspector Ridley [[NiceJobBreakingItHero slams her for not trusting her fellow officers enough]] to protect Candace Miller, and the show seems to paint Misty's poor judgement as the reason Mariah Dillard goes free. However, this seems to ignore the fact that this was the same NYPD recently revealed to be mired with {{Dirty Cop}}s, one of whom was Scarfe, ''Misty's own partner''. Coupled on with the fact that it's only been a matter of months since it was uncovered that [[Series/Daredevil2015 large numbers of NYPD officers were in Wilson Fisk's pocket]], it's not hard to see why Misty would've had reservations trusting her colleagues.
* ''Series/DoctorWho'':
** In "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS6E1TheDominators The Dominators]]", the villainous Rago repeatedly tells Toba to conserve their power by not just murdering everyone on the island like Toba wants - clearly, Rago is a canny leader and Toba's a paranoid psychopath, fair enough. Except Rago's plan ''absolutely'' would have worked if Toba had just murdered everyone on the island (which would have included the Doctor, Jamie, Zoe, and Cully, the only people on the island who want to fight back).
** In the serial "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS6E3TheInvasion The Invasion]]", aspiring glamour photographer Isobel suggests getting proof of the Cybermen's presence in the sewers by going down to take pictures. TheBrigadier agrees, but intends to use his own men instead, on the basis that such a situation is [[StayInTheKitchen no place for a lady]]. Isobel blows up at how backward and sexist he's being, but the Brig refuses, and both girls gang up on Jamie for agreeing with him and both she and Zoe [[IdiotBall walk away in a huff to get the pics themselves]] with Jamie worriedly tagging along, which ends up getting [[RedShirt a police officer and a UNIT soldier]] sent to rescue them killed. While it could easily be argued that the Brig was in the wrong to assume they could not handle themselves for being ''women'', it might have been better to let trained and experienced soldiers do the dangerous work, and neither of the girls are called out for their reckless actions getting two men killed. To add insult to injury, Isobel's photos end up being useless since she's never done any surveillance or dim-lighting photography.
** In "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS9E2TheCurseOfPeladon The Curse of Peladon]]", Hepesh is treated as an unreasonable nationalist willing to do anything not to deal with the Second Great and Bountiful Human Empire. But "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS9E4TheMutants The Mutants]]" two serials later shows that an earlier Human Empire did to the planet Solos exactly what Hepesh feared would happen to Peladon, exploited to the point of destruction and with the native population almost wiped out. Later in "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS11E4TheMonsterOfPeladon The Monster of Peladon]]" it's shown a lot of the miners on Peladon feel they are being exploited, and "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E3PlanetOfTheOod Planet of the Ood]]" would give another good reason to dislike the empire.
** In "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS9E5TheTimeMonster The Time Monster]]", Ruth Ingram is supposed to be an obnoxious StrawFeminist who treats men the way sexist men treat women. However, her initial complaint about her boss banging on about his 'male superiority' is bang on the money, since her boss goes around calling himself TheMaster. The Master also treats her in a sexist way ([[StupidEvil inexplicably]]), saying things to her that are wildly inappropriate by anyone's standards and treating her less experienced male colleague like the boss rather than her. Her one sexist line to Benton ("Just stand over there and look pretty") is also played by both actors involved as being mutually enjoyed flirting rather than an insult. All in all, she comes off as being a reasonable feminist, if perhaps a bit prone to hyperbole when talking about legitimate grievances.
** The Doctor (beginning with the Fourth) often criticised the Time Lords for sitting around being pompous instead of using their powers to intervene more, content to let whole civilisations be destroyed on their watch. However with all the dangerous renegades like the Monk, the War Chief, the Master, and the Rani running around with all the damage they cause, and the Doctor himself often centimetres away from full AGodAmI status, it makes sense the Time Lords prefer not to intervene except for major problems. When they first appeared they did interfere in a reasonable manner, the Doctor calling them in to stop a plan to conquer a galaxy with an ArmyOfTheAges assisted by a rogue Time Lord. Later the Time Lords occasionally sent the Doctor, especially the Third, to assist affairs on an important scale. That's before considering that when the Time Lords intervened in "The Trial of a Time Lord" this action almost destroyed Earth, and when they sent the Doctor to destroy the Daleks before they were created it ended up being the first shot in a GreatOffscreenWar that nearly destroyed the universe. The serial "Underworld" even revealed that when the Time Lords first interacted with another planet by giving them advanced technology, the planet and nearly all of the species were wiped out. Their most interventionist Lord President, Morbius, was also a dictator, cult leader and war criminal who was eventually executed for his conquests.
** Whizkid in "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS25E4TheGreatestShowInTheGalaxy Greatest Show In The Galaxy]]" is a cruel stereotype of the ''Doctor Who'' fans of the period, complaining that "[[PraisingShowsYouDontWatch although I never saw it in the early days]] I know [[RuinedFOREVER it's not as good as it used to be]]." Except, as pointed out in ''The Completely Useless Encyclopedia'', Whizkid is ''right'' about the circus, and the reasons are [[AnalogyBackfire pretty much exactly the criticisms]] fans were making about eighties ''Doctor Who''.
** "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS27E13ThePartingOfTheWays The Parting of the Ways]]" has the Ninth Doctor decline from destroying Earth with the Daleks, claiming its the morally better choice to not wipe out humanity. However the episode had just a moment before shown the Daleks attacking Earth so heavily they have probably wiped out at least nearly all of humanity. By the time the Daleks confront the Doctor he is quite possibly the only non-Dalek in range of the Delta Wave and the Daleks will exterminate him anyway. The Doctor even points out earlier that the human race has traveled to other worlds and will survive. The Daleks surviving means they'll attack more worlds and give humanity much less chance of surviving, and it's only a literal DeusExMachina that saves possibly the Universe from the Daleks.
** In "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E4TheSontaranStratagem The Sontaran Stratagem]]", the Doctor insists that he is going to handle the situation and that Colonel Mace of UNIT should listen to him and not attack the Sontarans who has already killed several dozen people and are warming up a full force invasion. While the Doctor is right that something fishy is going on with the Sontaran tactics and that UNIT could easy be crushed if the Sontarans actually tried, Colonel Mace is dealing with ''an alien invasion''; he knows that attacking that building may end with all of his men dead, but he points out that they cannot [[IdiotBall simply sit around and wait to be conquered.]]
--->'''Colonel Mace''': "[[ScrewYouElves Thank you, Doctor. Thank you so much for your lack of faith, but this time I'm not listening.]]" ''He pulls off his gas mask and dons his [[NiceHat badass hat]].''
*** As a subversion of usual usage of the trope, this becomes a BigDamnHeroes moment where UNIT successfully counters the Sontaran's advantages and wipes out the ground forces while the Doctor takes care of the superweapons and the ship in orbit.
** Both Harriet Jones and Torchwood One are presented by both the Doctor and the script writers as being entirely in the wrong for activities such as harvesting alien technology. Problem is that the Doctor ''is'' reckless, and treats death like a game and he ''is'' someone who is not likely to be there when the Earth needs him and he ''is'' responsible through his indirect actions for a good portion of the threats the Earth encounters.
** This is done even worse in "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E13JourneysEnd Journey's End]]", where the Doctor is disgusted when his clone destroys the Dalek fleet and treats him like a monster, the narrative using him to demonstrate how much the Doctor has morally improved [[MoralityPet since travelling with Rose]]. Even though the Daleks are fanatical mass-murderers who never negotiate and letting them live would inevitably lead to countless more deaths. They had just come close to destroying the Universe and it probably wouldn't be too difficult for them to try again, and from what we see the Doctor was just willing to leave them like they were.
** This is possibly acknowledged in [[Recap/DoctorWho50thASTheDayOfTheDoctor "The Day of the Doctor"]]. Originally the future Doctors treated the [[Creator/JohnHurt War Doctor]] like a [[IHatePastMe monster]] for destroying Gallifrey with the Daleks. Later 10 and 11 meet him just before he does so and realise he wasn't evil and there was genuinely no other way for him other than the universe being destroyed. Of course they then proceed to save Gallifrey with a TrickedOutTime gambit but acknowledge that one Doctor couldn't have done it and it takes [[spoiler:all 13]] to do so.
** In "[[Recap/DoctorWho50thASTheDayOfTheDoctor Day of the Doctor]]", Ten and Eleven criticize Kate Stewart for being willing to blow up the Black Archive (and a good chunk of London with it) in order to keep the Zygons from using the technology stored in the Archive to conquer Earth. Sure, the Doctors came up with an alternate solution, but at the time Kate didn't see another option.
* ''Series/{{ER}}'': The early portrayal of Dr. Anspaugh. We're supposed to see him as gruff, unyielding and unfair to poor Carter, who wants to switch his residency to emergency medicine. He does come around, but really, his arguments against residents just switching residencies on a whim ring true.
** ''ER'' is actually rife with these kinds of moments. Kerry Weaver is portrayed as a villain for her insistence that people abide by rules (though this was undermined by her hypocrisy), while Carol is aghast when the sister-in-law of a mentally disabled couple insists that they can't care for their newborn, etc.
* ''Series/{{Frasier}}'':
** In "Room Full of Heroes", Niles begins to say, in-character as Martin, that he and Frasier were disappointments to him. Martin sharply cuts him off and says he's portraying him as a "drunken judgmental jackass". While Niles was certainly over the line and had indeed had a few beers, considering how Martin treats the two of them and routinely expresses exasperation about their behaviour, it's hard not to see why Niles would think this way.
** In one episode, the three go to Martin's favorite restaurant. It's supposed to be about Frasier and Niles being snooty, which, duh, they are, except...the first thing that happens when they walk in the door is the hostess using a pair of scissors to cut up their (expensive, designer silk) ties and pinning the rags to the wall, as Martin laughs and says it's one of the best draws of the place. We're supposed to think that Frasier and Niles are stick in the muds who can't just have a good time like regular Joes. But really, who would ''want'' to patronize a business that destroys its customers' property and treats it like a joke? And since Martin knew about it, he comes across not as the example of blue-collar bonhomie the show wants you to see, but rather a malicious Jerkass who enjoys humiliating his sons.
* ''Series/{{Friends}}'':
** In "The One With The Cat", Phoebe encounters a cat and suddenly gets the vibe that it's reincarnated from the spirit of her dead mother. Fair enough -- except the cat has an owner, an eight year old girl to be precise -- and Phoebe refuses to give it back. It doesn't sound like she's joking either, she seems serious about it. When Ross calls her out on it, Phoebe basically accuses him of being intolerant of her beliefs and he is eventually pressured into ''apologising to the cat''. Behind Phoebe's back, the others actually agree with Ross, but they don't support him when he actually confronts Phoebe. While Ross could've been a tad calmer about the whole thing, even contemplating the idea of stealing someone else's pet was definitely low of Phoebe.
** Joey not wanting to share food is portrayed as a selfish character trait. Except in the episode the girl he doesn't share food with simply grabs it off his plate without even asking. And on the second date she orders a salad and then asks to eat some of his food as well. Joey has a right to be annoyed since if she wanted to eat his food, why didn't she order it for herself? In other episodes he seems happy enough to let Phoebe have some of his food when she asks nicely whereas this girl simply looks at his food, asks "are those stuffed clams?" and then reaches out to grab one.
** In the season 4 finale Emily wants to call off the wedding and move it to a later date because the venue has undergone sudden construction work. Monica tries to explain to Ross about how Emily has been dreaming of her wedding her entire life and thus her wishes come first. Except Ross, Joey, Monica, Chandler and Ross's parents had flown all the way from America to England and they had already spent a fortune on planning the wedding so Emily's wanting to move the wedding last minute comes across as pretty unpractical.
* ''Series/GilmoreGirls'': Mitchum Huntzberger is portrayed as villainous for telling Rory he doesn't think she has it after she does some work experience at his newspaper. The thing is Rory is incredibly sheltered, doesn't join in with any ideas at a meeting about using university students (such as herself) to cover events and when told this she meekly accepts it instead of showing any sort of anger or telling him he's wrong.
* ''{{Series/Glee}}'':
** Kurt relentlessly pursues Finn, knowing full well that Finn is straight. He orchestrates their parents into getting together to get closer to Finn. When they move in together, they end up sharing a room. Kurt redecorates it romantically and Finn, fed up with Kurt's advances, gets angry and ends up using the word "fag." Kurt's father Burt hears that and throws Finn out of the house for it. While it's obvious Finn should not have used that word, Kurt's behavior was straight-up sexual harassment. While the writers intended the scene to make Finn the wrong one, over the hiatus, they heard fans' reactions [[AuthorsSavingThrow and in season two]] wrote in a scene where Burt calls Kurt out for his dishonesty and how things would be different if Finn pursued a girl that way.
** Bryan Ryan, a guest character played by Creator/NeilPatrickHarris, is an ex-glee-clubber who goes on a crusade against school arts programs out of his own frustration that his singing and acting career didn't exactly pan out. While the point is lost in how far he takes it--basically encouraging the kids to give up on the arts altogether--he's not wrong that most of them will not make it in showbiz and that they should have back-up plans to avoid being miserable in adulthood. The show doesn't help by having background characters like [[AdvertisedExtra Tina]] be the ones to argue for their arts dreams.
** Upon his return, Jesse St. James is painted as a massive Jerkass for pointing out things like being talented isn't an excuse not to practice and rehearse. More than a few people in fandom agreed, and some even went so far as to say they were hoping New Directions didn't win at Nationals, since the fact that they weren't preparing any songs, weren't prepared to practice, and really didn't care showed they didn't deserve to win that year, and agreed with the decision in the finale.
** In another episode, Will wants Emma to embrace that she has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by wearing it printed on a tee shirt in front of the club. She chickens out and instead says her flaw is that she is a ginger. When Will confronts her, she says that she did not confess she has a serious mental disorder because as a staff member, it is highly inappropriate to talk about such things with students. And while she does later admit that that was just an excuse and goes out in the ending number with a shirt reading OCD, she was initially quite right that her personal psychiatric health is not a subject she should discuss with her students.
** In "Guilty Pleasures", Jake wants to sing a Music/ChrisBrown song (his musical guilty pleasure), but is railed on by the girls of the New Directions for liking Brown's music, due to Brown's abuse of Rhianna. He defends his position by claiming that you can enjoy someone's music even if you don't approve of the person's actions. It's clear that we're not supposed to agree with him, but it's hard to argue with his point.
** In "Rumours" Brittany breaks up with Artie because he says, in frustration, "Why are you so ''stupid?"'' The reason for his outburst? He'd just learned that Brittany had been cheating on him ''for months'' with Santana who'd convinced that it wasn't cheating "if the plumbing was different"--and when Artie pointed out that yes, actually, it ''was,'' Brittany refused to listen to him and kept defending Santana. Artie's meant to be seen as the only one in the wrong here, since Brittany is hurt by his words--"You're the only one that never called me stupid"--but, under the circumstances, Artie's angry, frustrated and upset reaction was perfectly justified. (Also, Santana calls Brittany stupid plenty of times, but ''she'' never gets called out on it.)
* ''Series/TheGruenTransfer'': In "The Pitch" segments, some topics, while unsellable, do get mighty-convincing ads. This is naturally intentional, since the whole point is to demonstrate exactly how effective advertising can be at persuasion, even if it's persuading you to accept something unsavoury.
* ''Series/{{House}}'': During Foreman's short stint as a chief of diagnostics in another hospital, he decides to go against protocol: while his team decides on a particular procedure, Foreman follows his intuition and changes the treatment on his own, without informing anyone. This turns out to be a good decision and the patient is saved, yet his boss still fires him for breach of procedures. We're supposed to side with Foreman and consider his boss as a vindictive shrew; yet, what if Foreman had been ''wrong''? Such complete breach of procedure resulting in a patient's death would end up in a massive lawsuit, not to mention heavy damage to the hospital's reputation, and likely being a complete career killer for Foreman. This is actually a frequent problem in the series: the cavaliere methods of House and his pals are more or less justified because they work (well, most of the time), but in reality, any failure would end terribly for all involved. This is the main reason why such behavior is heavily discouraged in real life.
** This goes further when Foreman tries to find a new job and, to his horror, finds out that his ex-boss has spread a word about his actions, making him practically unemployable by any respected hospital. Everyone treats the woman as a traitorous, backstabbing bitch, but she simply warned her colleagues about a major liability they can have on their hands if they hire Foreman.
* ''Series/ILoveLucy'':
** In "Redecorating the Mertzes' Apartment", Lucy kindly offers to help Fred and Ethel fix up their apartment, with Ricky even agreeing to pay for all the materials. As Lucy and Ethel begin to reupholster an old chair by taking the feather stuffing out of it, Fred [[DidntThinkThisThrough plugs in a fan]] to get rid of the paint smell. Naturally this ends in disaster with feathers flying all over the place. Fred yells at Lucy about the mess "she" made and [[NeverMyFault blames her]] for ruining their apartment. "''I'' have?" she understandably fires back, but Ethel agrees with Fred and insists Lucy is to blame because it was all her idea to start with. In the end, the Ricardos are forced to give the Mertzes their furniture and so must pay to refurnish their own apartment. The audience is expected to accept that everything turned out fine.
* ''Series/LawAndOrder'':
** "Prejudice" had a double-version; a lawyer for a guy who killed a black man based the InsanityDefense on his client's racism being so strong that he had to be insane. Except when the defendant gets on the stand to rant against blacks, his complaints weren't the rants of an insane nutcase; rather, he made nuisance complaints about talking during movies and other [[WhiteDudeBlackDude stereotypical differences between whites and blacks]] that numerous black comedians have pointed out as part of their routines. He only "had a point" in as much as whomever he was presumably plagiarizing and the sensibility of his arguments undercut his defense as well; he was supposed to be an irrational madman but he came across as a guy who watched too many Chris Rock films.
** Serena Southerlyn was an in-universe version; anytime a defendant had a liberal-leaning defense, she'd jump to their side (i.e. a homeless man claims homelessness made him kill), saying things like "You don't think his lawyer has a point about homelessness being a problem?" She oscillated between just playing the Devil's Advocate and outright missing the point that, in this case, not everyone who is homeless goes off and murders someone (indeed, many homeless people have been the ''victims'' of murder, since they are unusually vulnerable). Further, one can agree homelessness is a problem without viewing being a homeless person as by itself a defense to murder charges.
* ''Series/LawAndOrderSpecialVictimsUnit'':
** An episode where a boy has raped a celebrity, allegedly due to the influence of listening to and idolizing a radio shock jock. The shock jock is portrayed as a complete asshole who cares more about freedom of speech than his point -- at one point, he refuses to testify that the perpetrator admitted he'd raped the girl while he was on his show. However, the only reason that he even has to testify to this fact is because the censors took his show off the air in mid-broadcast, before the boy made the confession. Meaning if not for the rampant desire to censor him (which the protagonists of the show shared) there would be a taped, nationally broadcast confession. He is a complete asshole, but he does have a good point.
** An episode where a man's DNA is found in a dead victim (but with no visible sign of sexual trauma). Benson says his DNA will tell everything. This is fairly shocking considering two episodes earlier she was framed for murder with a technique that removes DNA from blood samples and replaces it with someone else's.
** One episode had the detectives interrogating a man whom they suspected of raping a disabled woman. The man insists that the sex was consensual. When the detectives scoff at this, the man chides them for assuming that just because someone is in a wheelchair, he/she is incapable of sexual desires or feelings. While his point is undermined by the fact that he's ''guilty'', it's a valid point just the same.
** Another episode has a woman allegedly raped by her policeman husband. While the squad is very clear that, uniform or no uniform, rape is rape, the marital-rape issues cause more squad-room debate. At one point, when the case has devolved into he-said-she-said and Alex states that the charges may have to be dropped, Cragen asks her if they really want to risk sending the message that a woman claiming her husband raped her had better be battered too. Well, maybe not battered, but since one's mate's DNA in/on one's person is hardly evidence of rape by itself -- yeah, some other physical evidence would be helpful. The case is further compounded by the wife often physically attacking her husband, including one on-screen instance where she smacks the back of his head with a frying pan (and not in a comedic way). The cop's buddies don't help his case by asking questions like "how do you rape a wife?" News flash: marital rape is illegal in all 50 states (though the last was only in 1993, just seven years before the episode aired).
** One episode has a boy who has a psychotic episode and shoots two of his classmates, and so the SVU team blames the pharmaceutical company that produced the pills he was on at the time. When confronted, the representative from the company makes some very valid points: the medication was sent only to people who had already been prescribed it previously, it was sent completely free of charge, the instructions were very clear that it wasn't meant to be taken by children, and it was prescribed to the boy's mother and not the boy himself. The fact that the boy's school demanded he be medicated or he would be expelled doesn't matter. The fact that the mother's HMO refused to cover regular therapy (with a doctor who didn't think the boy needed to be medicated at all) doesn't matter. The fact that the boy's mother, who gave him the pills without reading the instructions or consulting a doctor, ''continued'' giving them to him after he developed severe insomnia and paranoid schizophrenia, doesn't matter. All that matters is that Big Pharma is bad, and that's why the CEO is arrested. Granted, the CEO was morally shady (he had pills sent directly to patients through doctors' lists) and he's not charged with murder -- only for reckless endangerment and misuse of the mail -- but the audience is still expected to think of him as directly, morally culpable for the killings. For extra fun, consider that the doctor who gave his patient list to the pharmaceutical company did it specifically so that his patients could get, free of charge, the medications they needed but couldn't afford!
** One episode has a photographer who's a repressed pedophile and sadist, but has never acted on these impulses despite increasing signs that his fantasies are escalating. (He lives across from a school-zone, has built a torture chamber, etc.) He later admits himself on the stand he has no relationship with his son because he was afraid of what he might end up doing to him. But the protagonists basically spend the entire episode trying to have him imprisoned for crimes there is '''no''' forensic (or even practical) evidence he committed, they themselves admit that they have a better emotional case than a legal one, and the man is found not guilty. This is supposed to be a moral defeat, despite the simple logic that you can't lock somebody away for something ''they haven't done'' just because you are afraid they ''might'' do it.
* ''Series/MalcolmInTheMiddle'': The boys often have legitimate excuses for acting out (e.g. abusive parents who constantly gripe about how much theyíve sacrificed) it's just that they go so overboard that they lose any sympathy points. For example in "Charity" when Lois forces the boys to help out at a church to build character. They quickly learn that everything theyíve been giving away is better than anything they own. Trading their own stuff can be seen as ThrowTheDogABone however they soon set up their own black market.
* ''Series/{{MASH}}'': In one episode, Frank is suspicious of locals burying an unknown object next to a road near the camp and orders it dug up. When it turns out to be a kimchi pot, he's practically called a racist idiot. Except in the wake of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, roadside bombs were the primary cause of coalition casualties plus the use of {{booby trap}}s in Korea and Vietnam, Frank is wholly justified in being suspicious of something buried beside a road. Especially since a large kimchi pot is ''a great place to hide a bomb''.
* ''Series/MemphisBeat'': Dwight and the other cops are issued smartphones. They prefer their regular phones, and treat them with contempt. Dwight even quips "there's an app for that" just before he uses his to break a window. Problem is, smartphones can actually increase productivity and effectiveness, with proper training, which Dwight and Co. admittedly had not received (yet). Also, Dwight was risking damage to an expensive phone and associated services on the Memphis taxpayers' dime. The series aired from 2010 to 11, long before [[TechnologyMarchesOn smartphones were as ubiquitous as they are today]].
* ''Series/TheMentalist'': [[TheScrappy Fan-hated]] Sam Bosco actually has a pretty good point when he says Jane has damaged the team by persuading them to resort to illegal tactics repeatedly in the pursuit of justice. Once, when Rigsby and Cho are trying to convince him to let Jane off for bugging his office, he asks in return if they'd be willing to do borderline illegal things for him in return. When their immediate answer is yes, he reveals that it was a SecretTestOfCharacter which they absolutely failed since as cops they shouldn't be so willing to break the law. He's absolutely right. [[note]]And if they had said "no", he could've asked why they're willing to do it for Jane.[[/note]] While Jane is an excellent detective, he's also a con artist and expert at manipulation who takes great delight in getting people to commit crimes which he can then nail them for, or using other illegal methods to solve cases.
* ''Series/{{Merlin|2008}}'': This is played with (usually consciously) with King Uther. The man hates magic due to the fact that it killed his wife, and his genocide of all those who practice magic, no matter how benevolent, is seen as terrible. And yet, most times the threats against Camelot are entirely magical in nature (though in turn, many of Camelot's magical enemies are striking against Uther out of vengeance of what he's done to ''them''. It's a vicious circle.) Other times, Uther has to make tough decisions about how to rule, and though he's often portrayed to be in the wrong, it's not difficult to see his point when he refuses to help a small village in a neighboring kingdom because sending armed knights in to help might be construed as an act of war, or when he cuts off supplies from the lower towns during a famine because he needs what little food is left to feed the knights and thus maintain Camelot's safety. That first one falls through though in the Series 2 finale, when its revealed that while he was unwilling to risk war on account of a peasant village getting wiped out, [[spoiler:he was willing to send soldiers in order to exterminate the last Dragonlord, who at this point was completely powerless, was outside his kingdom, and if anything had only helped him]]. Balinor's initial willingness to let Camelot get wiped out is DisproportionateRetribution, but can you honestly blame him?
** This is true of any villain of the week. In virtually every case Uther's genocidal tyranny is what drives their attack. Several of them make the entirely legitimate point that killing Uther would resolve every problem Merlin faces. The basic continuity of the show is so lopsided towards the idea that Uther is an existential threat to Merlin and that if he simply chose not to save Uther his life would improve dramatically, that the show almost always has a KickTheDog moment where the villain of the week decides to commit genocide against the entire kingdom. Often there is no motivation for this sudden genocidal impulse other than giving Merlin a licence to save Uther.
* ''Series/{{NCIS}}'': In the episode "Dog Tags", a "drug sniffing" dog is believed to have killed his handler. The same dog attacks and hurts [=McGee=] in the beginning of the episode, yet he's treated like crap for not trusting the dog that ''attacked him''. The evidence throughout most of the episode points to the dog as the killer, so [=McGee=] has even more reason not to trust the dog. What is Abby's counterargument? Dogs are man's best friend. Abby forces [=McGee=] to take care of an animal that he not only clearly dislikes, but also ''attacked him''. And then she ''yells'' at him for having shot the dog when it was ''trying to kill him''. A German Shepherd is attempting to maul him and he was supposed to... what? Pet it? In the finale she browbeats [=McGee=] into adopting the dog he very much wants to avoid. The dog that is ''still growling at him''.
* ''Series/NorthernExposure'': In one episode, Fleischmann refuses to participate in a local tradition and is chewed out by just everyone else for not wanting to blend in with the locals. The point is, he's essentially left without any choice and bullied into participating, which is far from a good way of integrating someone with the local society. Furthermore, no one is interested at all whether Fleischmann can/wants to take part: what if he, a Jew, were strictly observant of kosher laws and the tradition included eating pork, or he had a heart problem and was forced to dance a lot?
** At times, both Fleischmann and his successor Dr. Capra unknowingly violate some local tradition or custom and are scolded for it, while making a completely valid point - that there was no way they could have known about some obscure local customs and violated it unknowingly - that gets ignored, or treated with a "this is no excuse" reply.
** In one episode, Maggie is outraged at Joel because the urgent cargo she brought for him turned out to be a box of fresh bagels and not - as she expected - medical tools. Fleischmann's comment that it is her job causes her to be even more outraged, and we are supposed to side with her and consider Fleischmann an arrogant prick, yet, well, he is right: Maggie is a commercial pilot and, as long as she is medically fit, the cargo is not illegal or dangerous or the meteorological conditions are not prohibitive, she is expected to deliver Joel any package he wants, because it ''is'' her job and duty and that's precisely what she gets paid to do. (And Joel never told her what is in the box, so the 'medical tools' were merely her assumptions.)
** When Joel is asked to lend his X-ray machine to examine a mysterious box that was found by Ed, he refuses and is chewed out as selfish... and he even does not get an opportunity to explain that X-ray machine for use on living beings is a bit different than the one used on luggage at an airports (it is specifically designed for get a detailed image of human tissues - that have a particular range of density - while avoiding a fatal irradiation; with luggage, this is not a concern, and the equipment is designed for a significantly wider range of density).
* ''Series/OnceUponATime'': The Good Guys, especially David/Prince Charming, repeatedly allow the bad guys to live over the protests of various strawmen. They'll even release them with little more than a wag of the finger, and even make sacrifices to save them. Refusing to use offensive magic against the Bad Guys, stopping their allies from retaliating against the Bad Guys, saving the Bad Guys from lynch mobs, even jumping in front of arrows for the Bad Guys, it happens constantly. You know what else happens constantly? The Bad Guys kill, imprison, rob, and rape people. The audience is meant to agree with the Good Guys that capital punishment is bad, but every time they catch and release the Bad Guys, the Bad Guys go on to do something breathtakingly evil, usually including multiple murders, that could have been prevented.
** Henry develops a MagicIsEvil stance in the Season 5 finale which is portrayed as wrong. While his decision to destroy magic is extreme, this show has pointed out time and time again that using magic has its problems to the point of being ArcWords. Additionally, most of the villains on the show have magic and exposure to magic is often the reason many of them became villains in the first place.
* ''Series/{{Revolution}}'':
** The Monroe Republic might be a violent group of thugs, but they are also the closest thing to law and government in this part of the wasteland ("[[Recap/RevolutionS1E2ChainedHeat Chained Heat]]"). The writers are clearly well aware of this; all of the villains have sympathetic motivations, and their families are frequently mentioned ("[[Recap/RevolutionS1E3NoQuarter No Quarter]]"). Then you have Monroe becoming so deranged that he's killing loyal friends and soldiers out of paranoia, and [[spoiler: trying to use a nuke ("[[Recap/RevolutionS1E13TheSongRemainsTheSame The Song Remains the Same]]") and anthrax ("[[Recap/RevolutionS1E16TheLoveBoat The Love Boat]]") to kill off all his enemies]]. The other parts of the former USA have been shown to be better places to live compared to the Monroe Republic ("[[Recap/RevolutionS1E14TheNightTheLightsWentOutInGeorgia The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia]]").
** Miles might be a {{Jerkass}} AntiHero, but he not only survived the last 15 years in good shape, but he went from being the leader of the Monroe Militia to becoming completely anonymous, despite living (undisguised) in the middle of a city with a whole army hunting him ("[[Recap/RevolutionS1E1Pilot Pilot]]"). The characters don't take his advice as much as they probably should.
** Rachel in "[[Recap/RevolutionS1E17TheLongestDay The Longest Day]]" has now taken turning the power back on as her motivation. She's only doing it because she's trying to avenge [[spoiler: her dead son, Danny]]. While she is right to point out that they can't save everyone, she also undermines her position by threatening to abandon Aaron. Aaron, who came with her voluntarily and saved her life due to a broken leg that happened because of a chain of events that ''she'' started. Then in "[[Recap/RevolutionS1E19ChildrenOfMen Children of Men]]", she accuses Monroe of killing [[spoiler: Danny]] to his face, and when he tries to point out that he wasn't even there when that happened, she yells at him to stop making excuses. They both have a point, because Monroe has been making excuses for his horrible behavior, and Rachel is clearly going after Monroe Republic members, even if they didn't do the deed in question.
* ''Series/{{Roseanne}}'': Leon is portrayed as wrong for wanting to fire Roseanne, even though she really ''is'' a lazy and sometimes intimidating employee who backtalks him almost every time he asks her to do something, even if that thing is something completely reasonable for an employer to ask of an employee. Of course, Leon is often a bit of a jerk in his own right.
** At the end of the bike shop storyline (basic plot: Dan and Roseanne's old friend comes to town and convinces them to open a motorcycle store in Lanford; they eventually do so at huge personal financial risk; the place doesn't do well and ends up having to close), Becky loses her temper at Dan and blames him for ruining her future by not running the shop well enough. She eventually goes so far as to run away and elope with Mark, her boyfriend. We're supposed to see Becky as a typical BrattyTeenageDaughter who is [[ItsAllAboutMe making the issue about herself]], but consider the following: To fund the shop, Dan used the money that would have gone to Becky's college tuition, meaning she can't afford to go after working hard and getting good grades all throughout high school; and Dan opened up a business despite having no knowledge of economics (which doesn't make him a stupid person, but ''does'' make the idea of his successfully running a store rather farfetched). All in all, Becky seems perfectly justified in her outburst, though she certainly could have worded it better.
** This occurred In-Universe a few times as well. In one episode, Roseanne loses her temper and strikes DJ after he steals a car (when he's still a preteen). Jackie immediately begins drawing parallels to her and Roseanne's own father's physical abuse; when Dan says that it's not the same thing and that she's overreacting, she points out (quite rightly) that child abuse does tend to repeat itself, and saying that it was a one-time fluke is naive, which Roseanne agrees with.
** Another In-Universe example: Roseanne was proud of her combative and complaining nature, and how she was the "alpha male" in her relationship with Dan. She was equally proud when Darlene was bossy and controlling with David as well. Anyone who ever complained about her or pointed out that she was being rude or nasty was inevitably portrayed as a stick-in-the-mud jerk who deserves to be the butt of a joke. However, in one episode, Roseanne and Dan discover that D.J. has a girlfriend who has been verbally abusing him. When they tell him that it's not OK, he correctly points out that this is the model he's used to--a woman treating a guy like dirt. Yes, Roseanne and Dan are clearly equal partners, the supposed "dominance" in the relationship is mutual and all in fun, and their teasing relationship is part of what makes their dynamic great, but they never took the time to explain any of that to D.J. To the show's credit, Roseanne and Dan immediately realize that this is wrong and try to be better role models ([[StatusQuoIsGod for that episode, anyway]]).
* ''Series/{{Scandal}}'': Vice-Prez Langston is surprisingly reasonable in the season finale. She talks about the strength of her faith and how it's not just politicking with heróand then [[KickTheDog gets threatened with the knowledge of her young daughter's abortion. Ouch]].
* ''Series/{{Sherlock}}'': Sergeant Sally Donovan and Phillip Anderson are portrayed as the antagonists for not trusting Sherlock Holmes or his genius. Donovan tells John Watson in the episode "A Study in Pink" that Sherlock is a psychopath. Actually, they are absolutely right to be suspicious of Sherlock. It's very common for serial killers to take an interest in the investigations of their own crimes, up to and including returning to the scene of their crimes and even trying to insinuate themselves into the investigations. Donovan and Anderson aren't being malicious; they're being intelligent and practical.
* ''Series/{{Smallville}}'':
** A number of characters have tried to force Clark/The Blur out of hiding and into the spotlight of the public eye. Since the series as a whole was building to Clark eventually coming out as Superman, the arguments for Clark staying hidden became less credible over time. The evil reporter from Season 2 who tried to forcibly expose Clark's secret argued that the public had a right to know about a powerful alien living in their backyard, which makes sense from a purely ethical standpoint of journalist ethics (as well as the aforementioned fact that the public would eventually find out about him), even if Clark does indeed have a right to a private life. There was also the corrupt DA from Season 9 who wanted The Blur to show his face and answer for a series of screwups that were blamed on him that were really the fault of the ComicBook/WonderTwins trying to impersonate their favorite hero; his corruption was revealed last-minute as a means to give the Wonder Twins a heroic gesture and kill any debate on whether or not the Blur should have to reveal himself to clear his name.
** In the early episodes, any interaction Clark had with Lex fell into this, and the one that stands out the most is "[[Recap/SmallvilleS03E19Memoria Memoria]]". Lex was trying to regain his lost memories from "Asylum". When Clark tried to stop him he ended up getting captured, and when Lex called him out on this Clark's only excuse was that in trying to stop his father Lex repeatedly stoops to his methods and innocent people get hurt. However, this falls on its face when you realize that the only reason Clark got hurt was that he was trying to stop Lex for, as Lionel said, his own selfish reasons. What Lex was doing only affected himself and that was his decision. Lionel wouldn't have known about it if Clark didn't get involved.
** While it's true that [[UnholyMatrimony Lex and Lana]] both became insufferably smug, they still had legitimate points when it came to protecting Earth from a potential Kryptonian/Phantom Zone/other alien invasion. In Seasons 5 & 6, Lex and Lana start sniffing around about Kryptonian technology, trying to learn everything they can about it. Clark gets very upset about this, but Lex and Lana repeatedly note that if aliens like Zod or Brainiac ever return, learning how their technology works just might end up being the thing that saves humanity from them next time, which is a perfectly defensible viewpoint. Indeed, Clark and the JLA themselves start incorporating bits of alien tech later on in fights against Zod and other threats.
* ''Series/StargateAtlantis'':
** Bates has legitimate concerns about Teyla as a security risk, but because she's part of the main cast they get dismissed and his nose rubbed in her trustworthiness when she proves it.
** In "[[Recap/StargateAtlantisS02E05Condemned Condemned]]", the governor is portrayed as an evil and corrupt politician who sends people to their death to serve his own interests of protecting himself from the Wraith. But they've reached a level of technological advancement that generally isn't allowed by the Wraith, and if people are going to be culled either way, isn't it better to have the technology (and accompanying higher standard of living) that goes with it? On the other hand, he's shown very clearly to be going too far with it. Originally getting fed to the Wraith was reserved for only the most serious crimes; it proved such an effective deterrent that pettier and pettier criminals had to be sentenced to death for them to keep up the quota, and in the end, people were getting sent to the island for the mere ''suspicion'' of committing a crime.
* ''Series/StargateSG1'':
** Senator Kinsey. While his character very quickly evolves into a {{Jerkass}}, the episode that introduced him had him find out about the Stargate program and shut it down. Why? Because it's a big drain on the defense budget with few or no returns. Hammond and SG-1's arguments are based entirely around their own experiences, which Kinsey obviously doesn't have access to and he simply doesn't trust them enough. At that point in the show, the main method of interplanetary travel is via the Stargate, so shutting it down and burying it seems like a good enough plan to prevent further alien incursions, and Kinsey doesn't believe Teal'c that the Goa'uld are fully capable of reaching Earth in starships. SG-1 turns out to be right, Earth barely survives the attack, and the team is hailed as heroes, while Kinsey is forced to back off. Later on, he [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Jumps Off The Slippery Slope]], losing any likeability. Additionally, later on, the program does indeed start paying for itself (figuratively speaking).
** Kinsey gets another one after he becomes vice president. In [[Recap/StargateSG1S7E22LostCityPart2 Lost City]], he's portrayed as a DirtyCoward for electing to flee to the Alpha Site once Anubis starts curb-stomping the regular human military. However, he's right to do so since the Alpha Site was built partially to ensure continuity of government in the event of an alien attack on Earth.
** Once shutting down the SGC is no longer an option, plenty of power-hungry scumbags try to take it over to advance their own agendas, always citing the main characters' actions [[CallBack in earlier episodes]] to try and portray them as unreliable and dangerous. Except that from an outsider's perspective Hammond and SG-1 frequently make incredibly questionable and risky decisions, and it ''would'' be worrying that the SGC's flagship team are constantly influenced or taken over by alien technology.
** In the first season episode "[[Recap/StargateSG1S1E7TheNox The Nox]]", SG-1 is portrayed as in the wrong for not listening to the Nox and leaving immediately, and the Nox were justified in both preventing them from capturing Apophis and barring them from ever returning. Except that SG-1 wouldn't leave because they were defending what they thought were defenseless villagers against Apophis, and the Nox were deliberately unhelpful and deceptive. On a larger scale the Nox preach pacifism and rebuke SG-1 for their use of violence to solve their problems. Only the Nox don't try and peacefully stop the parasitic aliens that enslave humans throughout the Milky Way instead choosing to use their advanced technology to hide. They seem content to let everyone else in the galaxy suffer as long as they get to live peacefully. The writers seemed to have realised this, as aside from a single episode later on the Nox are never seen again.
* ''Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries'': Elaan of "[[Recap/StarTrekS3E13ElaanOfTroyius Elaan of Troyius]]" is clearly meant to be a deeply unlikable character, being spoiled, petulant and rude constantly and to absolutely everyone - but she's being dragged off to a planet she despises and forcibly married to someone she doesn't like for the sake of politics and is very vocal about it. Her bad temper is not particularly unwarranted, given the circumstances. Kirk's crippling sexism throughout shown towards her doesn't help the audience take his side, at one point threatening to spank her - and let's not forget she's the ruler of a whole world - if she doesn't start behaving. In the scene immediately before he shares this pearl of wisdom with Spock:
-->"Mr. Spock, the women on your planet are logical. That's the only planet in the galaxy that can make that claim."
* ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'':
** In "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS2E13TimeSquared Time Squared]]", Dr. Pulaski (who, to put it mildly, was not well-liked by the crew) tells Troi that she's concerned Picard's fear and doubt over the situation with the future Picard could be potentially paralyzing, and says the time may come that she'd have to relieve him of duty. Troi basically tells her to shove it, but when the vortex shows up, Pulaski is proven right: Picard, uncharacteristically, keeps going back and forth with himself out loud about what to do.
** Worf. As noted in [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edflm7Hh3hs this compilation]], Worf's frequently the OnlySaneMan in ''any'' situation by suggesting they be prepared for hostile or belligerent aliens that might threaten the ship, only for the others to [[IgnoredExpert ignore him completely]], then suffers an [[TheWorfEffect ass-kicking]] for his trouble when it invariably turns out he was ''right'' all along. Michael Dorn even mentioned having seen the video in a Q&A and found it ''hilarious''.
* ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'':
** A great many episodes have situations in which they have an opportunity to do something that would be very advantageous for the crew, only to have Captain Janeway refuse for [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption reasons]] typically related to the PrimeDirective. Some character inevitably complains about her decision and points out that her moral arguments for why they can't take advantage of the opportunity don't actually make any sense, but they're always portrayed as being wrong, while Janeway is right.
** In "[[Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS5E13Gravity Gravity]]", the audience is supposed to agree with Tom Paris that the human way of being in touch with our emotions and having them in our lives is the right way, in opposition to the Vulcan master who taught Tuvok to suppress his emotions. Paris has a real problem with accepting that Vulcans ''aren't'' humans. Vulcan emotions are far more volatile, erratic and all-consuming than human's (whose emotions are less violent), and for a Vulcan being in love can be ''legitimately'' destructive, and not in the metaphoric sense that humans use (note that a lot of writers overlook the canon about the true nature of Vulcan emotions and basically treat them as being really stuck-up, repressed humans).
** Lt. Mortimer Harren from the episode "[[Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS6E20GoodShepherd Good Shepherd]]" has Janeway brand him a murderer and has the other members of the Away team shun him for killing an alien creature that had intruded upon the Delta Flyer (that had been disabled by a then unknown source), possessed a member of the crew and then proceeded to try and drain every last drop of power. Her justification is that it could have been an innocent and possibly sapient creature that didn't mean them any harm. This immediately falls apart however when a moment's thought reveals that at that exact point in time when he shot it there was a 50% chance that he had just saved the whole team from an invading alien that wanted to steal their bodies and a 50% chance he had just saved the team from a harmless creature that was nonetheless about to suck their batteries dry (and with it their oxygen and heat). What's worse is that she has faced this choice multiple times before when a member or members of her crew have been inadvertently been put at risk and in those instances she straight up saw no problem in executing them herself for what she saw as the greater good - Tuvix springs quite nicely to mind.
* ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'':
** In "Unexpected", Tucker's complaints about how various parts of the engine room are extremely unsafe is played as him being comically irrational due to the mood swings brought on by his [[ItMakesSenseInContext unexpected pregnancy]]. However, this is accomplished by him showing how the handrail on the service lift, if grasped, is so close to the edge that it will ''sever the fingers'' of the passenger on the bottom of the floor above, which ''is'' something to warrant extreme concern. The answer from the rest of the crew? "[[BystanderSyndrome Just don't put your hand there]]." Yeah, guys, [[NoOSHACompliance OSHA might like to have a word with you]].
** In "[[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS01E10FortunateSon Fortunate Son]]", we're obviously supposed to disagree with the humans on the freighter who are trying to attack a base of Nausicaan pirates because the humans tortured a prisoner for information and the man in charge, Matthew Ryan, is clearly obsessed. However Ryan has a point. So far Starfleet and the Vulcans haven't done a single thing to stop the pirate attacks and the freighters have to endure constant attacks by far stronger pirates. The episode itself seems to unconsciously admit this when Archer can't think up a good counter to Ryan's complaints. Just '''two''' episodes after this episode is "Silent Enemy". A bunch of aliens repeatedly attack ''Enterprise'' without provocation, injure their crew members and make it very clear they aren't going to stop. Archer's response to someone doing this to ''his'' ship? Righteous anger and threatening to fight back with everything they've got! Why does that sound familiar?
** Archer in "The Hatchery". He decides they have to keep it running; when the crew protests, Archer says it's the same as if they'd found a nursery full of ''humanoid'' babies, and saving the hatchery could serve as a point of truce between them and the Xindi, relating a story where soldiers in the Eugenics War called a truce so they could move the battle lines away from a school. Pretty in-line with ''Trek'''s themes of respecting life even in forms we're unfamiliar with, right? NOPE. This is irrational behavior that leads to Archer genuinely jeopardizing the mission and T'Pol has to mutiny against him. The only reason Archer wants to save the babies ([[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman weird, alien bug babies]], guys!) is because he got some egg gunk on him that made him reverse-imprint. Once Phlox fixes it, he's perfectly happy to ditch the hatchery with the HandWave that "they'll survive until a Xindi ship finds them."
* ''Steve Harvey'':
** In the episode "Thatís a Bunch of Bull", Regina stopped trusting Lovitaís work when she refused to admit she made a mistake on the lunch forms. It turns out that a vegetarian student caused a problem when they erased the order of hamburgers and Regina ends up apologizing to Lovita. The problem is that Lovita never even looked at the forms opting instead to watch her soap operas. So even if the student didnít change the form if there was a mistake Lovita never would have seen it.
** When Steve first took a run as acting principle is also a good example of this. Steve was shown as entirely unready for the position needing Regina to swoop in and save the day. The problem was that before she left, Regina never got anyone to take over Steveís normal duties; no, in addition to his normal jobs such as teaching classes, being the faculty adviser, etc., he had to do Reginaís job as well. In addition, while Regina and Cedric was shown helping him, they were mostly focused on they wedding plans and in most instances actively sabotaging him, such as Regina not telling him that the sister school was visiting. Heck when Regina came back all she really did was tell everyone to do their job.
* ''Series/TheSupersizersEat'': DiscussedTrope in the episode dealing with cuisine during the Restoration period. During the episode, one source of food comes from a pamphlet written by a monarchist which contained recipes [[LiteraryAgentHypothesis attributed to Oliver Cromwell's wife]] -- the joke being that these recipes (and Puritan culture) were bland and uninteresting. Giles and Sue actually found those dishes to be much better than much of the other Restoration food, because they emphasized simple flavors rather than the [[CordonBleughChef bizarre flavor combinations]] which were the norm under the Restoration spirit of excess.
* In ''Series/SwitchedAtBirth'', Bay (who is hearing) decides to go to Carleton, a school for the deaf, along with 6 other hearing students, despite having little signing ability and making no [[InformedAbility apparent]] attempt to learn. This leads to slowing down class for everyone and the art program being cut in order to pay for an interpreter for the hearing students. Naturally, a group of deaf students resent this, led by the bully Natalie. Bay complains that she is being bullied simply because she's hearing, and that it's not her fault, and she's portrayed sympathetically, or at worst, that she and Natalie are equally in the wrong. This ignores the fact that ''it was her decision to go to Carleton in the first place''. She's the one forcing herself into a culture she doesn't respect. Furthermore, she personally did everything she was accused of, which makes the claim of discrimination absurd, and the worst part is that she never stops or even acknowledges that she did anything wrong (apart from hitting Natalie with a volleyball).
* ''Series/TrueBlood'': Due to CreativeDifferences, the struggle of the vampires to "[[HaveYouTriedNotBeingAMonster come out of the coffin]]" is intentionally analogous to the LGBT rights movement. Against the vampires is a religious sect sworn to kill them who are supposed to be seen as a bunch of corrupt and bigoted fanatics. However, the show pulls no punches in showing how vampire society is still built around killing humans. The religious sect brings up a number of valid points against allowing vampires to live in human society: most vampires really ''are'' a threat to public safety. In attempting to use vampire stories as an allegory, they accidentally accept all the worst stereotypes of LGBT people in real life and ''more''. In [[Literature/TheSookieStackhouseMysteries the novels]] that serve as [[InNameOnly source material]] for the show, this is actually an in-universe example. The vampires are using an international propaganda campaign to intentionally draw a false parallel to the gay rights movement, in an attempt to retain their political power and food supply without dealing with the penalties of secrecy, but aside from a handful of very gullible and very young vampires it's entirely pretense and manipulation of well-meaning activists. The only vampire ever seen that's more than a few decades old and not a complete sociopath is entirely on the side of the ostensible strawmen, and the heroine of the books is incredibly cynical about the whole thing (due to mind-reading powers) and only keeps her mouth shut under continual threat of murder. In the series, one character went from pro-vampire rights activist to member of the anti-vampire church after finding this out due to her sister going missing as a "fang-banger" (i.e. vampire groupie), reasonably believing they murdered her. The director (who is gay) pointed out the implications and was very unhappy with the idea because of this, but wasn't able to get it undone.
* ''Series/TheWaltons'': In the episode "Founder's Day", Jason must complete one final assignment before he can graduate from the conservatory. Jason is uncomfortable with the assignment because it involves composing a piece of music in a genre that he's unfamiliar with so he refuses on the grounds that he has to be true to himself (meaning he only likes working with ''his'' brand of mountain hick music). The audience is expected to side with Jason but the truth of the matter is that the professor has every right to assign whatever assignment he deems necessary to pass his class and it is Jason's job as a student to abide by those guidelines. Also, a person in a creative field such as music should be open to experimenting and challenging themselves. Jason comes off as lacking creativity and talent but the show wants you to root for him as he whines about working on music he doesn't believe in. John-boy had the same issue. He called himself a writer but would refuse to work in fiction because he lacked imagination.
* ''Series/WireInTheBlood'': Penny Burgess, a manipulative journalist who has sex with a police officer for inside information, points out that it is wrong to arrest a suspect on purely circumstantial evidence and release his name to the public. Because she is a villain, the audience isn't encouraged to take what she says seriously and none of the other characters agree with her, but she is proven right when [[spoiler:the man they arrested commits suicide in prison and is later proven to be innocent]].
* ''Series/WizardsOfWaverlyPlace'': Stevie hatches a plan to allow all wizards to keep their magical powers. Normally, only the winner of a competition between siblings retains said powers. The fallout of such a competition has been shown to invariably break families apart. While she may be rather [[WellIntentionedExtremist extreme]] in her measures, she made a good point, yet Alex and friends ignore her and [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath proceed to kill her accidentally.]]
* In the ''Series/{{Wonder Woman|2011Pilot}}'' unaired 2011 pilot, Diana has dinner with a Senator who expresses concerns about the way she does things -- namely, using ColdBloodedTorture to get information from criminals, giving the metaphorical finger to {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s, and outright committing slander by holding a press conference to accuse Liz Hurley's character of being a murderous CorruptCorporateExecutive and '''admitting''' that she doesn't have any proof besides gut instinct. In fact, the only reason she's meeting the Senator is to get justification so she can go after Hurley. Of course, since Wondy-InNameOnly is the [[DesignatedHero hero]] of this story, she's ultimately presented as right.
* The BBC/Starz series ''[[Literature/TheCousinsWarSeries The White Queen]]'', insofar as it wants to present the characters who accuse Queen Elizabeth (Elizabeth Woodville, the wife of Edward IV, not the more famous daughter of Henry VIII) of witchcraft as irrational paranoiacs who are nuts to believe in witchcraft, and at the same time also presents the Queen as an actual witch, with very real supernatural powers. George, Duke of Clarence, and his wife, Isabel Neville, seem to be portrayed as being irrational when they accuse the Queen of using witchcraft to summon the storm that killed their son, except that, in the show, she did exactly that! So even though the show clearly wants us to have no sympathy for George, and a great deal for Elizabeth, who is, after all the [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality main protagonist]], the fact is that George, and the other characters who accuse her of witchcraft, are completely correct in at least most of their accusations against Elizabeth.

[[folder:Newspaper Comics]]
* ''ComicStrip/CalvinAndHobbes'': Calvin is meant to be seen as hilariously paranoid for fearing his babysitter, Rosalyn; whenever he tries to tell his parents how "evil" Rosalyn is, they defend the teenager and imply that Calvin has so many problems with her because he brings them on himself with his behavior. While Rosalyn isn't actively evil, she ''is'' a bad babysitter. She repeatedly charges Calvin's parents more and more money in exchange for doing practically nothing, since instead of actually watching Calvin she works on her homework, or calls her boyfriend Charlie on the phone while gossiping about Calvin and his parents behind their backs. One can understand her frustration at Calvin's many pranks and misdeeds, but Rosalyn wouldn't have that problem if she interacted with Calvin to make sure he didn't get into trouble. In fact, the one time that Rosalyn plays {{Calvinball}}, where she's shown to actively pay attention and interact with Calvin, there are no problems the entire night, suggesting a lot of Rosalyn's bad experiences are her own fault.
** For that matter, Calvin's Mom and Dad seem to be reviled by their son on more levels than just basic parent-child power struggles. They never attempt to foster Calvin's creativity or interests, insisting he share their own (in particular many a HorribleCampingTrip), look for new reasons to punish him, throw him to Rosalyn just to have a night to themselves, guilt trip him by reminding of them of the parental care they are ''obligated'' to give him as parents, and genuinely consider themselves martyrs for putting up with their own son. Also, when Calvin locked Rosalynn out of the house, Calvin's mother showed no concern at all for Rosalynn's safety; she just said Calvin could have gotten hurt. In addition, some of Calvin's Dad's mind games go past harmless fun and into outright cruelty, like saying he wanted a dog instead of a child, or implying that Calvin won't get any Christmas presents just for kicks. Indeed, as shown above, Rosalyn finally gets along with Calvin by learning what his parents never do; Calvin's bad behavior can be curtailed by just giving him the ''attention'' he wants.
* A September 2009 ''ComicStrip/FunkyWinkerbean'' storyline has Susan defending ''Wit'', the story of a middle-aged woman dying of cancer, as the choice for the SchoolPlay against parents who want their kids to perform something light and fun instead of a drama with challenging and potentially depressing ideas. The message being TrueArtIsAngsty and should be explored over lighthearted fare. However, the snarking blogs Blog/TheComicsCurmudgeon and Stuck Funky, comments [[http://stuckfunky.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/les-n-susans-excellent-adventure/#comments sided with the parents]] [[http://stuckfunky.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/the-greek-chorus/#comments in this situation]], pointing out it would be tough to stage with high school students and lack appeal to teens and their families. Thus they would not sell tickets which would cause them to lose money thus possibly forcing cutbacks in the art department. Why not do something light and fun that many people will want to see instead? It did not help the argument that the story was interpreted as a giant TakeThatCritics at readers unsatisfied with ''Funky'''s CerebusSyndrome.

[[folder:Professional Wrestling]]
* When Mike Knox was first shown in WWE, he would mostly interrupt his onscreen girlfriend Wrestling/KellyKelly, who claimed she was an exhibitionist, while performed her weekly strip show. Most fans would boo him and called him jealous of other people seeing her strip, but honestly, what man ''would'' want his girlfriend to strip for the entertainment of other guys?
* The "[[Awesome/AJLee Pipe Bombshell]]" from Wrestling/AJLee, in which the champ verbally eviscerated the ''Series/TotalDivas'' cast as "interchangeable" women who only got air-time because of the reality show, and not because they were the best in the business like her; that AJ got over with ring work and charisma and not by being "useless" eye candy who could wear $4,000 heels but couldn't "lace up my Chuck Taylors", and that AJ single-handedly restored credibility to the division and was in it for the job and not in it for the modeling fame. This was supposed to make AJ look like a petty mega-bitch heel... except that to pretty much everyone, ''all of that was true''. The wrestling audience gave AJ a huge ovation as all the ''Total Divas'' cast could do was yell things like 'bitch' at her. The promo proved so ineffective in getting the crowd behind the ''Total Divas'' and away from AJ that there was no follow-up, giving AJ the first and final word on the subject.
* Wrestling/CMPunk frequently prompted this reaction.
** During his 2009 feud with Wrestling/JeffHardy, Punk was portrayed as the villain for pointing out that Jeff, who had twice been suspended from the company due to his drug issues, was hardly a good example for people to let their children look up in contrast to himself, who wore his straight edge lifestyle on his sleeves - Jeff didn't really have a response better than "I'm a free spirit!" and "I admit I've made mistakes!".
** During his 2011 feuds with Wrestling/JohnCena & Wrestling/RandyOrton, Punk frequently pointed out the DracoInLeatherPants[=/=]DesignatedHero tendencies of both men. Punk even called out the audience for giving John Cena the "Superstar of the Year" Slammy Award for 2012, despite the fact that Punk had spent literally all of 2012 as WWE Champion.
** His July 2012 FaceHeelTurn was motivated by the fact that, despite being the WWE champion since November the prior year, he was frequently being set aside in favor of John Cena, to the point that Punk's WWE Championship match took place ''before'' the Money in the Bank ladder match. While other superstars like Cena and Wrestling/TripleH said that Punk hadn't earned respect yet, it rang hollow considering that Punk's 2012 title reign lasted over one consecutive year. Anybody else doing such a thing would be called one of the greatest of the modern era.
* The night after ''Unforgiven 2008'', Wrestling/ChrisJericho told the crowd that Wrestling/ShawnMichaels was a hypocrite for claiming to be a born-again Christian and yet belting Jericho so hard during their "Unsanctioned Match" the night before that Jericho passed out and was left with ugly red welts all over his body, and could barely walk for the rest of the night [[spoiler: (though he did somehow manage to win the World Heavyweight Championship)]]. Now, it wasn't as if Jericho didn't have all that coming: it ''was'' an "extreme-rules" match, after all; and he ''had'' goaded Michaels into the match by punching his wife in the mouth and refusing to apologize for it (even if it ''was''[[note]]Well, mostly. [[/note]] an accident), and even saying that Michaels had brought it on himself by bringing his wife into the ring in the first place. But he was right about one thing: since returning to WWE in 2002, Michaels had never demonstrated that his Christianity had at all changed him for the better; other than being [[DesignatedHero nominally a face]], he was still at heart the same arrogant and immature tweener character he had always been.
* Wrestling/PaulHeyman may be a {{Jerkass}} and a [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder treacherous snake]], but it's hard not to side with him sometimes because - with the exception of when he was General Manager of the new ECW in 2006 and therefore fully in charge of his assigned sphere - he tends to come off as a flunky at the mercy of the ''real'' power in WWE, the [=McMahons=] - and even when the [=McMahon=] family are the faces (which isn't often), it's impossible to forget that they're a clan of arrogant, bullying, childish megalomaniacs that the audience ''always'' wants to see get some kind of comeuppance. Never is this more true than when there's a [=McMahon=]/Heyman confrontation and Heyman is at least FauxAffablyEvil while Vince or Stephanie (or whoever) is rude and nasty, spewing insults just because they're powerful enough to do so. Once when Heyman got this treatment, he tried to shame Stephanie by asking if she taught her children to say such things - and Stephanie responded by angrily threatening Heyman never to mention her children again, apparently because he had insulted them at some point in the past. So not only did Heyman make a valid point, but Stephanie had to fall back on a fit of phony outrage because she couldn't refute it.

[[folder:Tabletop Games]]
* In ''TabletopGame/{{Deadlands}}: Hell on Earth'', the Anti-Templars, who [[BadPowersGoodPeople draw upon the corrupting power of the Reckoners so they have the strength to try and save everyone]] are supposed to be the villains, and the far more [[KnightTemplar self-righteous and judgmental]] Templars the good guys, to the point that in the Last Crusaders sourcebook, the authors outright state that the Templar's way of abandoning those who do not meet their standards is the right way, under the adage "if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem". Many fans, however, see the noble intentions for which the Anti-Templars are willing to damn themselves and consider them more heroic than the Templars will ever be. Given that the Templar archetype in the corebook comes with fluff-text about him punishing a town for looking down on him when he was pretending to be a harmless beggar by forcing the adults to be CannonFodder for a SuicideMission against a bandit camp and the children to be slaves to help a town he does consider "worthy" prepare its defenses, well...
* ''TabletopGame/MageTheAscension'' wavered on this one. In the second edition, the Technocracy was portrayed as one of the unambiguously evil factions, even though pretty much half of the advancements of mankind is derived from them and a world without their influence would be one where you are free to be eaten by a dragon while your sorcerous overlords rule at their whim. Third edition acknowledges the dissonance and changes things around a bit, making them one of the morally grey sides - still antagonists to the [=PCs=] due to opposing ideologies, but without one side being considered all that much morally superior.
** In ''TabletopGame/MageTheAwakening'', White Wolf was a little more careful to have the terrible conspiracy not be quite so ''benevolent'' this time.
*** A lot of what happened with the Technocracy involved hefty doses of VillainDecay, as well as a lot of fans of the game just outright liking them better than the player factions. A similar thing happened with another Classic World of Darkness antagonist group, the Sabbat of Vampire: The Masquerade.
* ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}'':
** The Coalition States. On the surface, they're a hardcore anti-magic, xenophobic tyranny whose leader is ''deliberately'' PuttingOnTheReich because he considers the post-apocalyptic remnants of lore about UsefulNotes/NaziGermany to depict a culture worth emulating. On the other hand, a lot of the depicted Dimensional Beings in the setting ''are'' either highly unscrupulous or outright evil AND more powerful than human beings, whilst magic isn't necessarily entirely BlackMagic, but does have a ''lot'' of bad elements to it that means that seeing it as TheCorruption isn't entirely wrong. While the game insists the Coalition is evil (probably), extended play tends to convert many players to something like the Coalition mindset: possessing superhuman powers that allow you to kill people on a whim makes you extremely dangerous and you should probably be closely watched if not actively kept away from other people.
*** A time-honored tradition among [=GMs=] who have heard one too many comments from their players about the Coalition is to run a campaign where they are part of one of the Nonhuman Tactical Strike/Elimination Teams, the Coalition's "Supernatural SWAT": this provides an excellent crash course in just how dangerous supernatural creatures or powers can be. Actually seeing a Master Vampire run amok in a crowd of normal people, a dragon suddenly shapeshift to their real form in a store and fry the owner for an error in pricing, or a mage or psychic go from docile and obeying your orders to killing your buddies in the time it takes to blink tends to bring people around to the Coalition viewpoint about the suppression and control of the supernatural very quickly.
** Doc Reid's Rangers, from the sourcebook on the Vampire Kingdoms of Mexico. There's a lot wrong with most of the Rangers, especially Doc Reid himself, but when it comes down to the "Nazi concentration camp like" experiments on vampires, it's kind of hard to not see them as KickTheSonOfABitch. Wild Vampires are little more than mindless, blood-sucking animals whose bite is infectious; they are basically nothing more than a blood-drinking ZombieApocalypse. A Master Vampire is a monster who willingly sold his or her soul to a [[EldritchAbomination Vampire Intelligence]] and then chose to create as many vampires as possible in order to let it manifest itself on Earth. The only arguably innocent vampires are Secondary Vampires, who were merely the victims of the Master Vampire... and even then, they're still ruthless blood-sucking predators whose bite spawns Wild Vampires, making them heralds of the swarm.
* In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Wyrm, strangely, has a point. The other aspects (creation and stasis) broke the balance first, it's just trying to bring things back to the original intended balance by covering their roles itself... poorly, because it's Destruction (also Corruption, but only because of said broken balance), but still.
* Early editions of TabletopGame/EclipsePhase heavily favored Anarchist and highly posthuman-focused factions to the point of essentially assuming that the players wouldn't want to play as members of corporate or bioconservative factions at all, which led to a lot of the relatively valid points or useful features of the factions being ignored in favor of casting the corporatists as captain planet villains and the bioconservatives as [[FantasticRacism space racists]].
** The bioconservatives, who state that transhuman augmentation should be partially or strictly limited to the necessary and that humanity probably shouldn't be creating or uplifting new species, get the worst of it, with an entire in-game civilization created to equate their philosophy with literal space nazis. This is despite the publicly-known cause of the event that made Earth uninhabitable being artificial self-improvement by a created species, and the secret cause of it being [[spoiler: those created species finding an alien info-organism and deciding to uplift it and join it to human civilization without sufficient delay or precautions]].

[[folder:Video Games]]
* In the expansion game of ''VideoGame/AgeOfMythology'', when Ajax declares that he want to cut off Kastor's head for his crimes, Amanra defends him saying that he may be tricked or maybe misguided. We are supposed to side with her in the argument, but regardless if Kastor is tricked or not, he still ordered his men to carry out a full-scale raid across whole continents, causing the deaths of hundreds of men including both Ajax and Amanra's [[DisproportionateRetribution just because 2 Greek scouts attack him first for repairing a temple to the Titan]]. If Ajax does not order his death all because he is the son of his close friend, such actions would have been treated as a crime by all the people who have been hurt by the attack. The only evidence of this that Amanra has is the word of [[spoiler:Arkantos (who, to be fair, has ascended to godhood)]].
* The ad campaign for ''VideoGame/DeadSpace2'' highlighted its self-professed [[GrossoutShow tasteless disgustingness]] by showing some middle-aged women {{squick}}ed by it. "Your mom hates this" was the tagline. "Why would they even make something like this?" one woman asked. [[SincerityMode Good question, ma'am, good question.]] MoralGuardians and {{Media Watchdog}}s [[http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/02/your-mom-hates-dead-space-2-advert-stirring-controversy.html naturally were not pleased]]. (However, there was also a fan-made version (again using real mothers), one of whom ''laughed'' when she saw the same images, creeping out the younger people around her.)
* Superman in the first ''VideoGame/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'' is meant to be seen as wrong for having killed the Joker (which led to his StartOfDarkness and ended up tunring him into a tyrant). In fact, people like Batman or Alfred in the comics give him the cold shoulder after this and Catwoman even treats him as a serial killer who can't wait to strike again. The problem is the same as in the other instances where the Joker is presented: he's the JOKER! And in this universe he managed to kill ''millions'' thanks to a nuke...''while making Superman semi-responsible of all the deaths'', including the deaths of Lois and her unborn child. This pushed him real hard into the DespairEventHorizon, in a way where no person, superpowered or not, could have maintained his sanity intact...and yet he's lambasted for not keeping [[ThouShaltNotKill the moral high ground]] despite the fact that the Joker more than deserved to be executed for his crimes (and most likely would have been anyways thanks to what he did). While it does not excuse all the awful things that Superman did later, it's pretty hard to blame Superman for killing someone who did something so horrid.
* In ''VideoGame/DragonQuestIX'', the [[OurAngelsAreDifferent Celestrians]] are charged with guarding the Protectorate (i.e. Earth) and collecting Benevolessence (concentrated gratitude) from mortalkind (i.e. humanity). The main way to collect Benevolessence is to care for humans, protecting them from monsters and solving their problems. However, when you speak with them, you quickly learn that the Celestrians [[SmugSuper hold the mortals in obvious disdain]], which is treated as [[{{Pride}} a negative trait of the Celestrians themselves]]... except the Celestrians exist -- as a race -- to protect and clean up after mortals (one of the Hero's first tasks in the game is ''to clean out a stable full of horseshit'' while the nearby farmer is napping). This would be an obnoxious job at the best of times -- and the Celestrians have been doing it for hundreds if not thousands of years, and for most of that time there's been no end in sight. On top of that, their attitude is eminently justifiable -- they ''exist'' to solve the problems mortals cause.
* The Jackal from ''VideoGame/FarCry2'', on his interview tapes, sounds a lot more logical than the game seems to want you to think of him as, given the tape descriptions. While many of them are blatantly MORALLY wrong, his logic to justify what he does makes a scary amount of sense. This is especially invoked in the tape asking him why Africa, when he gives the interviewer a small HannibalLecture, asking him if there's someone else's home he doesn't care about that he should sell weapons in. [[spoiler:He might have been intended to be right all along, given that his ultimate goal is to help all the refugees and sane people escape the nation while the two warring factions all kill each other, and he even kills himself in the process to make sure his arms dealing can't cause another conflict like the one in the game.]]
** This is even more stark in the complete edition, which is sadly no longer available. With all of the bonus missions and audio tapes installed, it becomes obvious that the man you replaced on the hunt for the Jackal slowly realized that the Jackal was the only man trying to prevent the brush war from turning into an outright genocide, especially once the local factions stopped relying on their own men and started hiring foreign mercenaries who are just there to kill people and steal diamonds.
* ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' briefly mentions at one point that the previous Exalt of Ylisse started a great war against Plegia in the past with the intent to wipe out the Grimleal. While this normally would be religious persecution, the fact that every Grimleal met in the entire game is a ForTheEvulz Motivated cultist that literally wants to cause the apocalypse just because, means that wanting to wipe them out isn't exactly an unreasonable response given the info known.
* In ''VideoGame/{{Killzone}}'', the Helghast are portrayed as being [[ANaziByAnyOtherName Nazi-alikes]] that attacked the very America-like ISA, brutally fighting with war machines, super weapons and human experimentation. But reading into the backstory of the series shows that the Helghast got ''royally'' screwed by the ISA for decades before that point and during the series. Being left to fend for themselves on a DeathWorld because of an ISA-backed MegaCorp, having everything destroyed by the ISA just as they were building it up, having heavy sanctions and blockades placed on them by the ISA, [[spoiler:having their planet blown up, being forced to relocate to the ISA homeworld and be treated like second class citizens, and there was a rouge ISA general that tried to start a war so he'd have an excuse to wipe them completely]]. All this combined with them just being [[EvilIsCool so much cooler]] and [[EvilPlan more cunning]] than the [[LeeroyJenkins overaggressive, bumbling ISA]] have contributed to a lot of fans RootingForTheEmpire. The devs seem to be taking notice, as ''Shadow Fall'' has GrayingMorality on both sides [[spoiler:and gives a mission where you play as the Helghast hero Echo]].
* In ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep'', Master Eraqus may be a '''''big''''' anti-Darkness KnightTemplar -- as seen when he tries to [[spoiler:kill two of his own pupils to end Master Xehanort's plans for them]] -- but given the near-endless amount of DarkIsEvil in the series -- and [[spoiler:said pupils later having worse fates anyway]] -- one can't help but find him ProperlyParanoid.
* STAG in ''VideoGame/SaintsRowTheThird'' do some pretty extreme things to fight crime. That said, consider how much mayhem the Saints and the other gangs cause on a regular basis - enough to either appall or impress real-world terrorists. It's enough to make one wonder why the US government didn't try clamping down earlier.
* General Damon in ''VideoGame/ValkyriaChronicles'' is AmbitionIsEvil personified; he happily sends Squad 7 on suicidal missions as a meat shield for his own soldiers just to pad his own win-loss ratio. This comes to a head when he captures Selvaria, swooping in after the battle is over to take credit, and has her pistol-whipped to knock her out. Welkin and Alicia act like this is just the most horrible thing ever, but Damon counters with a pretty solid piece of logic: she's a ''Valkyria''. The only safe way to take her alive is to do it while she's unconscious and unable to use her magic powers. When she regains consciousness, [[spoiler: she uses those powers to detonate a castle and destroy the entire army in very short order]].
** Ditto Faldio, who spends most of the game being punished for awakening [[spoiler: Alicia's]] Valkyria powers because he cared more about military power than the free will of a Gallian citizen. But, as he points out, if he hadn't done it, there would be no Gallia to fight for because it would have been conquered via the otherwise-unstoppable military power of a Valkyria. Everything about his character arc revolves around him committing this terrible act and eventually [[spoiler: dying to redeem himself]] because of what a horrible thing it is to do, aligning itself with the "war is bad" themes of the story, but Gallia only survives the war because of what he did.
* During the "Culling of Stratholme" campaign in ''VideoGame/{{Warcraft}}'', Arthas's response to the infected citizens is to [[KillThemAll immediately kill all of the citizens]] before they become the undead. This is meant to be a MoralEventHorizon in the eyes of the intended target gamers, as well as Uther and Jaina. The problem is that most of the citizens had already been infected (and likely suffering too) and if they wait too long will end up as zombies anyway. Meanwhile Uther offers no other solution, merely saying there "must be some other way" without specifying what. It's known there's no cure for undeath, so wonders what else Arthas could have done.
* ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'': While Sylvanas raising the dead as Forsaken and invading Gilneas is fairly horrific, she does have a point that if more Forsaken aren't raised, they will eventually die out and the Horde will lose its hold on Lordaeron. Likewise, her argument that the Forsaken have a more valid claim to Lordaeron than the Alliance does make sense given that it was their home in life. The issue is muddied given that there are living Lordaeron refugees, including Garithos and his men, whom Sylvanas [[UnwittingPawn used]] and [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness betrayed]] in "The Frozen Throne", and a quest involves an inheritance dispute between a man and his Forsaken brother (in the original version, Alliance players help the former and Horde players help the latter). It can thus be argued that [[GreyAndGrayMorality both the Forsaken and the living refugees of Lordaeron have a legitimate claim to Lordaeron and are unfairly denying the other's claim]].
** From the other side, it's been asked whether the Forsaken dying out (which isn't the same as saying they should be exterminated) would really be a bad thing. This is treated as akin to genocide. But the Forsaken are unnaturally created with dark magic, many of them are needlessly cruel and their government openly performs horrific acts such as torture and experimentation on "enemies" [[note]]which can include anything from hostile [=POWs=], to innocent civilians, to ''other Forsaken''[[/note]]. Many of them claim to hate their current existence but have no qualms forcing it onto others for their own selfish reasons, and while it's true they need more soldiers to defend themselves from the numerous forces trying to destroy them, it's hard to feel sorry for them when they're the aggressors in nearly every conflict they're involved in. It should be noted that it was their attack that drove Gilneas to the Alliance. The nation was neutral at the time and potentially could have been allied with, but no diplomacy was attempted, even though they both have a curse and could have bonded over it. Notably, the other playable undead faction, the Knights of the Ebon Blade, mostly keep to themselves and no one seems to have a problem with ''them''.
* Mr. Hattrick in ''VideoGame/{{Bully}}'' wants to get Mr. Galloway fired because Galloway is [[TheAlcoholic an alcoholic who drinks during school hours]]. Galloway is supported by the students because he's one of the very few teachers at the incredibly dysfunctional school who is kind and genuinely tries to teach the students, while Hattrick is an asshole, a hypocrite, and a bribe-taking bully who's been mistreating Galloway the whole time the two men have been colleagues. (Which is part [not all, but part] of why Galloway's drinking has gotten so bad.) But... Hattrick is still absolutely right that Galloway's drinking is out of control, especially since Galloway drinks during class and hides booze all over the school. In real life, being fired would be the ''least'' of the consequences Galloway might face as a result of this.
* In ''VideoGame/GearsOfWar'' ''Judgment'', [[JerkAss Colonel Loomis]] is portrayed as being overzealous in his on-the-spot trial of Kilo Squad for their unauthorized use of the [[FantasticNuke Lightmass Missile]] against [[BigBad Karn]], and the game established Karn as being a serious threat in his own right in addition to being in command of the Locust forces attacking Halvo Bay. Colonel Loomis is presented in the wrong. But look at it from his perspective; Kilo Squad stole a weapon of mass destruction (low yield as it might have been comparatively, it still created a very large explosion) to deal with a threat that Loomis had only heard about from them, used said weapon against their own city in order to kill said threat, repeatedly defied direct orders to do so, and [[spoiler: using the missile turned out to be completely unnecessary. Karn survived the blast unharmed, and you end up killing Karn on foot with five people in your squad]]. Not to mention, [[TruthInTelevision unauthorized use of military hardware is a serious crime in real life]]. Loomis ''is'' a GeneralFailure and TheInquisitorGeneral, and it was stupid to hold a trial in the middle of a warzone. But arresting Kilo Squad was ''entirely'' called for.
* ''VideoGame/{{Pokemon}}'':
** In ''VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite'', Team Plasma's position on the immorality of owning and fighting with Pokémon was a smidge too hypocritical to win many fans to their side, but does make the rest of the cast less likable, as few compelling or complete retorts are ever made.
** During the Delta Episode in ''[[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire]]'', Zinnia destroys Cozmo's link cable meant to get rid of the incoming meteor on the basis that a different dimension (implied to be the original ''Ruby and Sapphire'') would be destroyed instead. Cozmo angrily retorts that Zinnia has no proof, which is entirely correct since she refuses to (or legitimately can't) provide evidence that she's right about the existence of sentient life in the other dimension, let alone that the meteor is guaranteed to cause it any damage.
* ''VideoGame/TalesOfXillia2'' still has some members of the terrorist group Exodus. When they do cause destruction, it's often played up as being for no good reason. But when one thinks about it, they are trying to prevent peace between Elympios and Rieze Maxia, which is lead by Gaius, whose actions in the previous game were all done with the goal to eradicate life on Elympios (either by flat-out destroying the world or by [[{{Woolseyism}} indirect means]]) and has shown no open remorse for his previous actions to the open public. As it stands, the remnants of Exodus can be seen as trying to prevent peace with a man who could very well backstab them in the long run. [[{{Woolseyism}} The English version removes majority of these hints, causing them to lack this point and being nothing but terrorists for no reason]].
* ''VideoGame/{{Normality}}'' is a lighthearted example, taking place in a CrapsackWorld where fun is outlawed. (A parody of a dictatorship, sure, but a rather transparent way to run one.) Thing is, if Kent Knutson, the protagonist who is arrested for having fun is this society's idea of a fun guy, maybe they have something here. [[IdiotHero He's an]] ''[[IdiotHero idiot]]''.
* In ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity'', it's treated as a given that the player, as Batman, will stop the League of Shadow's plan to wipe out all the criminals locked up in the titular prison ala [[spoiler: Protocol 10]]. However, the EnemyChatter portrays the criminals as {{Card Carrying Villain}}s who are only kept in line by their fear of their even worse bosses. The game shows what horrible crimes (including poisoning thousands of civilians with the Joker's blood, just to motivate Batman to find a cure) the criminals can commit from inside the prison. The [[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum previous game]] showed that [[ThereAreNoTherapists such therapy as exists serves only to get the therapists killed, maimed, traumatized or brainwashed by their criminal patients.]] And neither prison nor asylum [[CardboardPrison can hold Gotham's supervillains for more than 6 months]], letting them rack up another big bodycount before Batman stops them again. Given the lack of viable alternatives to protect the people of Gotham from Batman's rogue gallery, the League of Shadows' plan begins to sound reasonable. Oracle even asks if standing back and letting the League do its work would really be for the worse with Batman only shaking her from that train of thought by pointing out that there are political prisoners that are only there because of actions taken against the League rather than actual guilt of being criminals.
* Taking from the above in a sense, there's the DLC adventure ''A Matter of Family'' for the videogame ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight''. The cops who Batgirl rescues through the story (which happens shortly before the events of ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum'' and those inspired by ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'') all beg and vouch for Batgirl to kill the Joker for the stuff he's done to them. This is obviously meant to be seen as a wrong mentality since Batman and his allies [[ThouShaltNotKill don't kill criminals]]...but when one sees all the stuff that the Joker has done (the [[TearJerker secret story of the amusement park's owner and her daughter]] and what the Joker and Harley did to them [[NightmareFuel is nothing short of horrifying]]) and will do in the future to Barbara in particular, and all the death, suffering and horror that would come out of them in general, it may have been better to follow their advice and finish him off before [[ForWantOfANail he set into motion all the events of the series]].
* Fan-made ''VideoGame/PokemonInsurgence'' has this with [[spoiler:Jaern, the Second Augur,]] when talking about the First Augur. Freely admitting that his actions can be seen as extreme, he points out that the First Augur did his job of eradicating the cults in the Torren region. But that said First Augur also decided to not punish cult members begging for forgiveness, which did nothing, as said cult members never learned anything and simply left to join a different cult, inflating the membership of said cult.
* A rare example where the protagonist is the strawman in ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfHeroesTrailsOfColdSteel II''. At the beginning of the climax of the game when the group starts to assault the final dungeon of the main game, [[TheHero Rean]] asks why his sister is aboard the state-of-the-art airship of the empire, [[CoolShip the Courageous]]. Elise claims that she's there to support her big brother and hopefully help motivate him to come back. Rean then starts making excuses that she shouldn't be there when the rest of the party, his sentient HumongousMecha, the acting helmsman, and the acting captain of the ship are telling him to let her stay so that Rean will have someone to go back to. Except a: all of the people inside the Courageous are military ''students'' so they're hardly qualified to even pilot a ship belonging to the royal family and the only reason why they're there is to rescue the crown prince, b: Elise is pushing it as she's ''a civilian'', has no military training, and can barely use a sword in a world where the adult enemies are some of the most dangerous characters in the series that even the protagonists can barely handle one round from them, and c: the Courageous isn't exactly a safe place as it's constantly under attack by the much larger ship, the Pantagruel. While Rean is an overprotective big brother who constantly worries over his sister, he isn't exactly wrong about Elise in that she is in one of the most dangerous places of the CivilWar especially taking into account that she was kidnapped for ''a majority of the game.'' One of the many reasons why she's TheScrappy in the eyes of the fandom.

[[folder:Web Comics]]
* On ''Webcomic/LivingWithInsanity'', the creator bemoans how an unknown artist canít make a living by making original content instead of drawing established characters, showing a woman ignoring the lead character pitching his original independent comedy comic and getting excited over an artist who drew Franchise/GreenLantern, followed by a profitable crowd. The problem with this is that [[http://www.livingwithinsanity.com/?comic=266-con-part-four the cover of the independent comic]] is literally just a close-up of a pair of breasts, which seems like an excellent reason to ignore it.
* In Jay Naylor's comic ''Webcomic/OriginalLife'', the small girl Angelica was created as a strawman into which Naylor stuffed everything he hated, from politics to spirituality to ''musical taste''. She's also widely considered the most likeable and sympathetic character in the strip since she seems to be one of the few characters that doesn't act like a complete {{Jerkass}} to everyone around her. For five months, she's been waging a campaign against the strip's Objectivist protagonists, and most reader reaction is rooting for '''her'''.
* Happens many, many times in the infamous ''Webcomic/VeganArtbook'', which is to be expected when your [[TheWarOnStraw Straw Men]] are making statements like "farming isn't the same as genocide," "artificially inseminating cows isn't comparable to rape," and "[[Administrivia/PeopleSitOnChairs humans are omnivores]]."
* While Suzette from ''WebComic/{{Precocious}}'' is typically set up as a hateful feminist extremist, she does make a valid point about gender roles [[http://www.precociouscomic.com/archive/comic/2010/10/03 in this strip]], where she rants against the DoubleStandard present in most advertising.
* ''Webcomic/RedString'':
** Near the end, Kazuo is made to appear jealous and desperate by pointing out that he's upset Miharu is dating Makoto because he's a terrible person. While we're meant to see Makoto as the good guy and Kazuo the needy jealous ex, Kazuo is ''exactly right'' - Kazuo voiced his opinion because Makoto was so petty and jealous that he grabbed Miharu by the wrist and dragged her away from Kazuo without telling him. On top of that, while we're supposed to be sympathizing with Makoto's relationship, it's hard to feel like Kazuo is crossing any boundaries when Makoto is literally dating Miharu because he never stopped cheating on his own fiance to aggressively pursue Miharu while she was ''still'' in love with and planning to marry Kazuo. And as we are supposed to be thinking Makoto is this great guy that Kazuo doesn't understand, Makoto is at that moment screaming at Miharu in public (though out of earshot of Kazuo) for being too stupid to understand what Kazuo "really" wants. The scene ends with Miharu apologizing to ''Makoto'', seemingly proving Kazuo right about what a terrible boyfriend he is, though the story presents her apology as a romantic moment sealing them as a perfect couple.
** In Kazuo's final scene in the main storyline, he is again portrayed as a villain for angrily telling Makoto that he treated Miharu and her family's business like they were his property and he'd gotten his hands on both with no effort. Makoto angrily rebuffs that he "worked hard" to get what he wanted and that Miharu seems to "not care" that he "acts like an idiot." We are intended to take Makoto's side, but Kazuo is dead right - Makoto is literally dating Miharu entirely because Kazuo's father literally started beating him up to pressure him to end his engagement with Miharu. Makoto only has the restaurant because in spite of him ''not'' keeping up his end of the bargain and marrying Karen, his parents bought the restaurant anyway because the Ogawas inexplicably like him. On top of that, Makoto is clearly still treating Miharu like his property because he is presuming to speak for her and has, on this subject in particular, berated her into apologizing to him or blatantly ignored her. Furthermore, while Makoto is angrily telling Kazuo he's a "puppet of his parents", Kazuo points out that Makoto's had an easy life because his parents give him everything he wants. Makoto's dispute that he works hard is rather weak when his parents are constantly shown bending over backwards to get him whatever he wants, even if its extremely expensive or time-consuming. And how does the story end to prove that Makoto works hard? [[spoiler: He calls his parents and arranges for them to let him quit his job so he can date Miharu full time. As the call is not shown, it appears that Makoto got no opposition whatsoever. Miharu is elated that he made all her choices for her. In the original script, it even read like they were literally letting him sponge off them without him ever planning to get another job.]] But no. We are really supposed to think Kazuo is being petty and jealous of the greatness that is Makoto, despite him once again being the only voice of sanity in the closing pages of the comic.
** Kazuo just racks these up. Even earlier in the comic, Miharu decided the way to magically solve his abusive homelife was to get Kikuko to pretend she was in love with him and willing to marry him, all to convince Kazuo to enter cooking contests. Miharu felt this would teach him he had a choice. When Kazuo finally realized the entire thing was her manipulating him, we're intended to feel that he's crossed a line and hurt Miharu by confronting both Kikuko and Miharu. Instead, especially given later events in the story, it's hard not to feel sorry for him - his father actually beats the crap out of him whenever he tries to assert himself, and now he's learned that Kikuko's warming up to him was all a lie. Not to mention, ''winning a cooking contest would not fix his homelife.'' Much later in the comic, [[spoiler: after he's DrivenToSuicide]], Miharu finally admits to Makoto that her plan was stupid, but the story wants us to think she's being too hard on herself.
* In ''{{Webcomic/Sonichu}}'', several trolls are on trial for murdering a character. The trial is quickly derailed to have more to do about their respective webcomics, and one of the characters, stoned off his mind, complains about the author's lack of work ethic. There are several tirades about letting the author write as he wants, but the stoner was right. Not updating can be a serious detriment to the success of any franchise. Sadly, this was played dead serious (literally, as this was used as evidence for their executions), rather than lampshading the hell about the absurdity of it all.
* In ''Webcomic/StickyDillyBuns'', Ruby is presented as something of a {{Sour Prude|s}} who will be happier when she gets a boyfriend. However, when she tells other cast members that [[http://www.stickydillybuns.com/strips-sdb/my_perfect_big_sister not everything is about sex]] and that it's possible to be happy as a [[http://www.stickydillybuns.com/strips-sdb/best_ease_back_there "self-actualizing ugly stepsister",]] it's perhaps easier to side with her than the writers intended.
* [[http://www.viruscomix.com/page494.html This]] ''Webcomic/{{Subnormality}}'' comic was probably intended as a massive TakeThat to professional sports, but it ruins it by making [[AnthropomorphicPersonification Brian the Brain]] seem like a whiny elitist and the other two characters intelligent guys who just enjoy turning him off and relaxing every now and then. "Take a break from intellectualism every now and then" is probably a better moral than "Watching sports will make you an idiot misogynistic racist homophobic criminal". It's just as easy to take the comic as ''intentionally'' arguing the former moral, rather than the latter. [[WordOfGod Rowntree himself]] commented that it could be interpreted either way, and the comic is meant to point out the "cognitive dissonance regarding hockey in particular".
* When ''Webcomic/{{Sinfest}}'' switched over to introduce the Sisterhood arc (the Sisterhood being a team of straw feminists lead by the strip's CreatorsPet), the male characters were increasingly shown surrounded by fembots programmed to be everything the customer could desire. This is shown as a bad thing, and indeed the men are regularly forced to confront how their actions victimize the fembots. However... the behavior of the female characters is such that the males can be considered justified in preferring to pay for the company of companions who don't treat them as the enemy. Interestingly enough, the single pairing of nonbot male and female (Criminy and Fuschia) are also the only ones who fail to even acknowledge the concept of a gender war or the Matrix-ish "Patriarchy."
* ''Webcomic/{{Wondermark}}'' published [[http://wondermark.com/1k62/ this]] comic as a humorous illustration of an annoying internet habit, now known as "Sea Lioning."[[note]]The term means intrusively, aggressively trying to get someone to debate you by pretending to be polite while asking for evidence to back up the claims of your "opponent."[[/note]] Many people, including [[Wiki/{{Wikipedia}} The Other Wiki]]'s Jimmy Wales, have pointed out that the humans [[FantasticRacism insulted all sea lions everywhere, in public]], and that the sea lion had every right to call them out on it, only becoming a villain when invading the other person's home, which isn't really equivalent to criticizing publicly-posted remarks on Twitter.
** [[http://wondermark.com/1k71/ A later strip]] portrays someone who complains about having to worry about other people's feelings when speaking as a self-centered jerk. It's actually quite likely both parties in the sea lion strip were supposed to be wrong, and many people missed it, [[AuthorsSavingThrow which the second strip was intended to correct]].
%% The Politically Incorrect Man entry has been the subject of some debate. Please consult the relevant Discussion thread before altering or removing it. Thank you.
* [[http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/01/attempts-to-end-pc-culture/ Politically Incorrect Man]] sees three pairs of people, each consisting of one "PC" and one "un-PC" character, having a disagreement about a sensitive political topic. Each time, the eponymous "superhero" flies in and carries the "un-PC" character's point to an exaggerated, strawman extreme, then flies away. Finally, another "superhero" named "Mx. Respect for Others" flies in and gives what is intended to be a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech. Her tactics, however, are NotSoDifferent from Politically Incorrect Man's: she flies in, makes vague and general pronouncements only tangentially related to the point at hand, and then flies away; the only real difference is that, as an AuthorAvatar, she is given more space to expound on her point. It's hard to imagine that any of the three pairs of characters' (who, unlike the superheroes, were at least conversing politely and respectfully with one another) conflicts were actually resolved, and it's hard to imagine anyone's opinion being changed. Hence, to a reader who comes into the comic already inclined to agree with Politically Incorrect Man's worldview, the strawman has a point, whereas to a reader who comes into the comic already inclined to agree with Mx. Respect For Others, she's merely [[ConfirmationBias preaching to the choir]].

[[folder:Web Original]]
* This comes up a lot in the works sporked by ''Blog/DasSporking''. Usually, it's the [[RonTheDeathEater Weasleys]] who do it. A few examples:
** ''The Real Us'' (a H/Hr shipping story about the events that ''really'' took place during the ''Literature/HarryPotter'' series, the canon events being a series of lies told by Harry and Hermione) has the pair tell a crowd of people how Hermione gave Harry a blowjob in thanks for him saving her from the troll (Remember, they're 12 and 11 respectively by this point). Molly Weasley points out to Harry that ''maybe'' the girl who forced herself on him was ''not a nice person''. Harry mocks her for saying this, and her intent in this story is to force Harry to be with Ginny and Hermione to be with Ron, but what Hermione did is (in Muggle Britain) considered sexual assault.
** ''Harry Potter and the Girl Who Lived'' (a story where a post-Voldemort Harry is brought into an alternate universe where he's a girl) has Harry strike up a relationship with Rose Potter, and help her out in various ways. Dumbledore is portrayed as a meddling old man for investigating what Rose has been up to and being suspicious of Harry, but the thing is, from his point of view, Rose has suddenly started spending time with a person that no one knows anything about. That kind of situation is ''very'' suspicious in the real world.
* In ''WebAnimation/SuperMarioBrosZ'', [[{{Jerkass}} Shadow]] argues that they should leave Princess Peach in Bowser's hands while they instead focus on finding the last of the Chaos Emeralds and stopping Turbo Metal Sonic, which Sonic uses as an excuse to call him out on [[TookALevelInJerkass how he's become more of an asshole]] since Mobius was destroyed. However, while he was a jerk in how he put it, Shadow is completely and utterly ''right'' in his perspective. Bowser is a HarmlessVillain to begin with, and in this situation he's outright told them that he wouldn't hurt Peach whilst he waits for them to gather the Chaos Emeralds and bring them to him. Meanwhile, Turbo Metal Sonic is an OmnicidalManiac who will happily butcher his way across the Mushroom Kingdoms looking for the last Chaos Emeralds while they are distracted. To say nothing of the fact that, once the team has those last Chaos Emeralds they can transform into a group of SuperMode versions of themselves and lay waste to Bowser's whole army in the blink of an eye. There was absolutely ''no'' reason whatsoever to go rushing off to Peach's rescue, and every reason to focus on gathering the Emeralds first, even if it is a rather unemotional decision.
* [[WebVideo/YouKnowWhatsBullshit The Bullshit Man]] is a [[ParodiedTrope caricature of people]] who complain about things that can't be helped. At the same time, why is he the "bad guy"? There is nothing that actually "can't be helped" and getting angry about it is step one in finding a way to change it. Many fans even find themselves agreeing with his rants. For example, the one about warranties is something that would certainly be a valid complaint, as after he bought a warranty it ended up proving worthless.
* Smosh's Worst Army Ever, like the Bullshit Man, is meant to be {{Exactly What It Says On the Tin}}. And though the alliance of Hecoxia's soldiers are certainly immature and somewhat stupid, they do raise many valid points and poke holes in medieval society and warfare. A trumpeter points out how he has no real weapon, which leaves him as vulnerable as their castle which they have left totally unguarded. They also show a healthy amount of reluctance to fight, because they know their enemies are not the barbarians their king claims them to be, and when the king claims they will win because God is on their side, they explain that their enemies worship the same God they do, and claim he's on their side. And their proposed solution, to bribe God, is {{played for laughs}}, but making a sacrifice to win a battle is a time honored tradition that worked in the Bible.

[[folder:Western Animation]]
* Stan Smith of ''WesternAnimation/AmericanDad'' is often portrayed as a bigoted, self-serving sociopath who causes havoc over even the slightest problems. However, given that he lives in a CrapsackWorld where half the cast are almost as bad as he is, he actually often has a good reason to be annoyed (e.g. his ControlFreak in-laws taking over his house uninvited, his wife becoming a surrogate mother behind his back, pretty much ''any'' disagreement he has with either Hayley or Roger); it's just that his depraved overzealousness causes him to take much nastier measures that gives the other side the higher moral ground.
* The "Gee Whiz" episode of ''WesternAnimation/AquaTeenHungerForce'' has a segment on "Standards and Practices" that claims that the eponymous Department is "keeping good and funny ideas away from [...] the television viewer", the result being "a mediocre product that no one can relate to". In that segment, an example of these "good", "funny", "relatable" ideas is '''[[{{Gorn}} blowing out a nun's brains,]] leaving the shooter in LudicrousGibs'''. While Standards And Practices in that segment seemed to be okay with someone killing a nun if the LudicrousGibs are replaced by "a happy and colorful rainbow", [[DudeNotFunny killing an innocent nun is not an idea that most people would find "good" or "funny".]] On another point, FridgeHorror sets in when you think about just what type of people would actually relate to killing a nun.
* ''Franchise/Ben10''
** After Ben and the others believed that Zs'skayr and his other aliens have been eliminated, Ben makes a claim about how he did all the work in defeating the enemy. Gwen and Max are upset about this claim, but Ben eventually agrees with them and promises to work together after he used Cannonbolt to save Gwen and Grandpa Max. However, Ben's point is not completely wrong, as compared to his cousin that can only use basic magic and his grandfather who is merely a normal person, Ben has the Omnitrix, one of the most powerful weapons in the universe, and usually ends up saving the day by himself. It doesn't help that earlier on, Gwen makes a point on how she does not need Ben's help which most fans sees her as being envious of him.
** Albedo from ''[[WesternAnimation/Ben10Omniverse Omniverse]]'' has been established to not give a damn about what others think, and will bend the truth to himself to make sure nothing is his fault such as how he [[NeverMyFault blames Azmuth for becoming the person he is]]. We're supposed to see him as an immature brat for such claims. However, at the end of "For a Few Brains More", rather than attempting to help Albedo, Azmuth [[spoiler:''messed with'' Albedo's Ultimatrix, forcing him back to a Ben form, and a ''younger'' Ben form at that with both Azmuth and Ben laughing at his own misery as he is imprisoned]]. In other words, Albedo has every right to blame Azmuth for becoming the person he is.
* The animated special ''[[Literature/TheBerenstainBears The Berenstain Bears' Easter Surprise]]'' has Boss Bunny quitting his job as the Easter Bunny, resulting in the seasons getting stuck on a permanent winter in Bear Country. When we first meet Boss Bunny, he is cast off in a negative light, not caring about Easter and calling spring a bore. Brother pleads with him to come out of retirement and make Easter possible so the seasons can return to normal. However, Boss Bunny clearly is too old and worn out to continue Easter preparations and his body can't take the hassle anymore. Seasons getting stuck aside, setting up the factory, making truckloads of candy, painting millions of Easter eggs and caring for employees year after year add up to a pretty taxing job.
* This was a frequent occurrence on ''WesternAnimation/{{Captain Planet|AndThePlaneteers}}'' with Wheeler, who was portrayed usually as an arrogant and obnoxious jerk and hence always wrong, despite the fact that he often made sense. In one episode, he was mocked and declared selfish due to his opposition to keeping endangered and injured animals picked up in the group's travels on Hope Island, despite the fact that not taking exotic species out of their natural habitat is a perfectly valid GreenAesop on its own. This is not the only example. He has been "wrong" to espouse two entirely contradictory positions in two separate episodes, and was somehow wrong both times -- even when the episodes came to the ''same'' conclusion. See TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong for details.
* ''WesternAnimation/DungeonsAndDragons'' pulled an ExploitedTrope. Eric the Cavalier was enforced by ExecutiveMeddling as TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong, but Gygax and the other writers weren't so fond of the idea. Clever fans, particularly ones who understood the world of the tabletop game, point out on the fan boards and commentary that Eric tends to be dead right when it comes to most of his complaints, including the unofficial first rule of Dungeons and Dragons: ''Never trust a smiling Dungeonmaster.''
* In ''WesternAnimation/DannyPhantom'''s final episode, "Phantom Planet", Sam's is visibly upset with Danny [[spoiler:getting rid of his powers]] and calls him selfish for doing it. He questions why what he did was selfish, and many people took Danny's side of the argument as his reasons were justified; his wanting to [[spoiler:[[IJustWantToBeNormal be normal again]]]] was to protect his family from the ghost hunters searching for him, and in keeping with the perception that he was no longer needed as Amity's protector. This just adds to the AlternativeCharacterInterpretation for Sam that she only cares for Danny ''Phantom'' but not Danny ''Fenton''.
* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents'' has its most infamous episode, "It's a Wishful Life", where Timmy receives no appreciation for his good deeds. While the kid can be a jerk, he had every right to be upset with no one appreciating his work. Bickles was ungrateful simply because Timmy used a different shade of blue for a painted background that others wouldn't have noticed or cared about; AJ was ungrateful simply because Timmy bought a computer that was obsolete as of 5 seconds ago, then used the expensive computer as a door stopper; and Timmy's parents were ungrateful simply because Timmy knew nothing about the "dirty yard contest" they were competing against the Dinklebergs for and spent untold hours (as far as they knew) making the garden beautiful to show his love for them.
* ''WesternAnimation/{{Futurama}}'': In "Leela and The Genestalk", Mom is used as a caricature of companies producing [=GMOs=]. She's very, very obviously OnlyInItForTheMoney, but she makes a number of valid points showing the benefits of genetic engineering. Leela brushes all her arguments off with "we have no idea what the long-term effects might be". Given that the show is set a thousand years in the future, one has to wonder how long exactly Leela -- and the writers -- think it takes to see "long-term effects". However the episode is ambiguous enough that you can interpret it differently; Leela instantly gives up her morals when presented with a cure for her disease fitting in with similar RealLife examples, i.e. a prominent member of PETA who uses insulin derived from animal products for her diabetes, while arguing animals shouldn't be used to cure other diseases.
* ''WesternAnimation/GravityFalls'' has an episode with a unicorn that judges Mabel by claiming to be able to "see into her heart" and determines that she's not pure. It's later revealed that it was all a scam to get humans to leave her alone, and after a battle Mabel leaves the encounter learning that she shouldn't feel overly conscientious about being judged for how good she is morally. The problem is, not only did the unicorn bring up a good argument about how doing good deeds for the sole sake of making yourself look better is actually a little self-centered, some fans believe that she was RightForTheWrongReasons. (Given that the ability to see a person's heart is part of the scam, so the unicorn has no possible way of knowing what Mabel ''actually'' did unless she was secretly keeping tabs on her.) Mabel has performed a number of morally-questionable actions throughout the series -- in the episode immediately before this, she and her brother used a mind-controlling device on their own uncle. (It may had been under important circumstances as they were trying to not let StarterVillain Gideon take over the town and destroy their home, but the device is shown to ''not'' be a pleasant experience for the person being controlled. Gideon specifically calls them out for using it.) Near the end of the series, although after being depressed having gone through a bad day, it's still telling that she was willing to [[spoiler:freeze the flow of time over Gravity Falls -- indirectly manipulating the lives of many others -- to make summer a little longer because she was scared about growing up and moving on]]. It's true that the unicorn was being an emotion-manipulating {{jerkass}}, but Mabel really could have used just a little more self-reflection in her life instead of brushing it off with "Morality is relative."
** On top of that, the episode ''really'' goes out of its way to portray the unicorn(s) as jerkasses for manipulating humans into leaving them alone, when in real life this is probably what ''anyone'' would do if confronted by a total stranger asking for their hair (possibly coupled with a 911 call). Sure, Mabel and friends needed the hair to ward off the BigBad[[note]]Though the episode itself doesn't make clear how badly they really need it; Ford, who brought it up in the first place, doesn't seem too distraught at the idea the girls won't succeed.[[/note]], but Mabel only brings this up ''once'' in a very vague way before jumping feet first into the "pure of heart" thing.
* The failed pilot for ''WesternAnimation/TheGroovenians'' has the BigBad tell the artistic heroes that nothing in life is free and that they have to pay bills if they want to stay in their new home. This, of course, is presented as corporate greed and the villains making life harder for the heroes. Except viewers, even other artists, agreed more with what the bad guy was saying.
* An example that occurred to the writers happened in the ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'' episode "A Better World". In it, Batman gets into a debate/duel with his [[KnightTemplar Justice Lord]] counterpart, about the latter's [[WellIntentionedExtremist seizing control of the world.]] Originally, League!Batman was meant to convince his counterpart, but after writing a particularly apt line for Lord!Batman [[note]] "You grabbed power!" "And with that power, we've made a world where no eight-year old boy will ever lose his parents because of some punk with a gun!" [[/note]] the writers couldn't come up with a compelling counter argument. In the episode proper, League!Batman concedes the point, and later gets through to Lord!Batman by pointing out how much their parents would have (dis)liked [[CrapsaccharineWorld the new Gotham.]]
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'':
** The Canterlot Elite in "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS2E9SweetAndElite Sweet and Elite]]" are depicted as smug elitists for treating the ponies from Ponyville as boorish hicks. In addition to their assorted bad behaviours at the Grand Galloping Gala (the highest profile national annual party), Rarity's friends crash and trash the Canterlot Garden Party (the second highest profile national annual party), making one wonder if the reputation for being boorish hicks is at least somewhat deserved. Indeed, for the Gala, Celestia ''deliberately'' invited the main characters in hopes of "livening up" the party, and afterwards claims it was the best one in a long time because the Mane Cast engaged in disruptive behavior, culminating in Fluttershy (and four seasons later, MadGod Discord) screwing up a party which is, for her, exceedingly boring, further adding fuel to the fire.
** The Cutie Mark Crusaders being portrayed as wrong in "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS3E4OneBadApple One Bad Apple]]" for wanting to retaliate against Babs Seed, because it would make them be "bullies" themselves. However, Babs Seed's own motive of "she had been bullied herself" [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic failed to win pity from the audience as her bullying was excessively severe and mean-spirited]]. Adding to that was Applejack's "if you're bullied tell an adult" moral which is [[BrokenAesop immediately broken]] when the girls are bullied in front of her [[AdultsAreUseless and she does absolutely nothing to intervene other than frown]]. So many watching felt the Crusaders fighting back was entirely justified and a case of self-defense rather than bullying.
** Spike's HeroicSelfDeprecation in "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS4E24EquestriaGames Equestria Games]]" is perfectly justified. His little anthem shtick was probably extremely offensive towards anyone from Cloudsdale (they were ''not'' entertained: they didnít laugh, and, judging by the audience's reactions, they seemed furious), while the heroic actions he can take credit for basically amount to being in the right place at the right time--any other pony would have probably done the same. Other ponies trying to chalk it up to him senselessly being self-conscious, outright ignoring how he humiliated himself in front of thousands of spectators (along with how long it took him to light the torch, followed by his embarrassing failure to light the picture he signed on fire) is somewhat bewildering.
** In "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E7ParentalGlideance Parental Glideance]]", Rainbow Dash learns to appreciate her parents who embarrass her by cheering her on all the time. But they're not simply embarrassing; they're so excessive that they're bothering the other fans. They even shot fireworks at an air show, which easily could have resulted in someone getting hurt.
** The fans from "Fame and Misfortune" are obvious stand-ins for the show's fanbase, and this comes back to bite the episode in the ass. Although the in-universe fans were complete jerks and {{Karma Houdini}}s, their criticisms (characters tending to learn the same lesson over and over again, not watching episodes starring a character they don't like, or preferring the show before changes to the StatusQuo) are all entirely justified and reasonable, if debatable, things to believe and do. Hell, the only way the episode could actually make such criticisms seem outlandishly unfair in the first place was to have them targeted at (InUniverse) real people rather than fictional characters, since when you remember that the Mane 6 don't actually exist or have feelings to be hurt the episode's moral angle falls apart pretty quickly, with the story feeling less like a lesson about how "nobody is perfect" and more about the writers whining about the fans daring to have opinions that they don't like.
** [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E25ShadowPlayPart1 The Shadow]] [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS7E26ShadowPlayPart2 Play two parter]]: Thousand of years ago, [[PrecursorHero The Pillars of Equestria]] believed that the seventh member of their group, Stygian, [[SixthRangerTraitor betrayed them]] when they caught him performing a magical ritual over their main artifacts. As a result, they automatically assume the worst and cast him out. He soon became possessed by the Pony of Shadows (which happened because they turned against him), forcing all of them to go into Limbo in order to protect Equestria. In the present day, the main characters, along with Starlight and Sunburst decide to free the Pillars from limbo, accidentally freeing the Pony of Shadows in the process. As they find a way to defeat the Pony of shadows, itís discovered that Stygian was never trying to steal the Pillarís power. He was merely copying the artifacts so he could have the power to protect Equestria alongside them. Itís made clear Pillars were wrong to jump to conclusions about Stygian's motives and not let him explain himself. However, the flashbacks heavily implied that he took the Pillars' artifacts ''behind their back with zero consent'' instead of [[PoorCommunicationKills explaining to his friends beforehand that he was feeling left out and asking if he could borrow them for his spell]]. As a result, Stygian isnít entirely blameless for the Pillars coming to the wrong conclusion.
* ''WesternAnimation/ThePowerpuffGirls'':
** Buttercup's attitude towards Elmer after he became a monster. She's treated as being in the wrong for refusing to apologize to him after bullying him, but as she points at, Elmer was attacking people that didn't even do anything to him, including his teacher that actually stood up for him.
** Femme Fatale isn't exactly wrong about male super heroes being much more popular.
** The mayor of Citysville rightly calls the girls out on the fact that they have a tendency to cause as much damage as they prevent--in this case, blowing up a bridge (which will cost roughly $3 million to fix) just to catch some bank robbers when they could have [[BoringButPractical simply used their superhuman strength to overpower the crooks.]] {{Downplayed|Trope}} somewhat in that their heroism prevents the villains from deliberately causing more damage than they already were, and the ending of "Paste Makes Waste" suggests that the girls use their powers to repair the damage they cause after a crisis is dealt with.
* In ''WesternAnimation/RocketPower'', a group of MoralGuardians lobby to put a ban on skateboarding, biking, running, and rough-housing on the boardwalk and pier after Merv Stimpleton steps on a skateboard and falls down. (Presumably one of many other accidents, not just when someone carrying boxes was shown as stepping on the skateboard and falling down). They're depicted as strawmen, but if you ask anyone who lives around a town like that, that ban isn't exactly that unreasonable due to safety reasons. Meanwhile, the kids had to be ''told'' not to skate around an ''extremely'' crowded area. The episode at least acknowledges this through Ray; he points out that regardless of Mr. Stimpleton's DisproportionateRetribution, the kids did hurt him and hadn't yet apologized, and Otto and Co. care more about having fun than someone getting hurt. It also helps that a large part of the resolution was the opening of a skate park which [[TakeAThirdOption let skaters have as much fun as they wanted without troubling regular passers-by]].
* ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'': This trope often applies to Lisa:
** In "[[Recap/TheSimpsonsS11E13SaddlesoreGalactica Saddlesore Galactica]]", Lisa's school band competes in a battle of the bands competition. An opposing band from Ogdenville uses glowsticks and wins, even though visual aids were expressly forbidden. Lisa spends the rest of the episode appealing to higher powers until then-President Bill Clinton nullifies the verdict and declares her the winner. Lisa's outrage is justified as the Ogdenville band won despite breaking the rules, as well as her appealing to higher figures, since the competition judge doesn't care about the rules violation and brushes her off when she complains. Even if it wasn't meant maliciously, Ogdenville broke the rules and should have been disqualified.
** Lisa again in "Hungry Are the Damned", part of the very first ''WesternAnimation/TreehouseOfHorror'' Halloween special. Apparently, Kang and Kodos would have humans believe that [[GildedCage living in captivity on a spaceship with all your favorite foods to eat and free entertainment]] is preferable to living a free but boring life on Earth. Lisa disagrees, and the aliens punish her ingratitude by returning the Simpson family to Earth and telling them they will never be truly happy again. But even if Lisa was wrong about the aliens having secretly sinister motive--in this case, allegedly wanting to eat humans--she was right about the aliens' actions being unethical. Slavery done with the best of intentions and that involves the captives being pampered instead of enchained is still slavery, and particularly loathsome if the victims are of a different species who are [[CondescendingCompassion supposedly wretched and "deserve" to be taught enlightenment and joy]].
** Marge gets it in "All's Fair In Oven War" where it tries to portray her as a cheater and morally wrong for tainting the other entries in a baking contest, and as a desperate loser for not trying to win fair and square. However, considering every other contestant blatantly went out of their way to sabotage Marge first (Luigi dumping fish scales on her cutting board, Agnes Skinner dipping her wig in Marge's ingredients, and another outright destroying her completed entry by lighting it on fire) and what Marge did in return wasn't even as bad as what they did (dumping ear medicine in them to make them taste foul), it's hard to not side entirely with Marge on this one. She was put at a blatantly unfair disadvantage and her act of "cheating" only served to make it a fair contest again.
* The ''WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants'' episode "Stuck in the Wringer" has Patrick glue [=SpongeBob=] into the titular device for no reason other than his own stupidity. When this proceeds to ruin [=SpongeBob=]'s day, even rendering him unable to eat, Patrick clearly does not care. [=SpongeBob=] eventually loses his patience and yells at Patrick, who fully deserves it. The crowd watching them then give [=SpongeBob=] a dose of WhatTheHellHero for treating his friend like that. The writers want us to agree with them.
* ''WesternAnimation/TronUprising'':
** Dyson certainly wins no fans by [[ColdBloodedTorture torturing Tron]] in ways that include use of a buzzsaw and just being a vicious, genocidal slimeball. But parts of the fanbase trained in computer repair pointed out that Dyson unfortunately had a point; the Isos ''were'' destabilizing the system, Flynn's infatuation with them was putting the entire Grid and every life in it at risk, and Tron's directive was to [[ThreeLawsCompliant serve Users]], even if the User's command was causing harm. Dyson's was to protect the integrity and stability of the system, even if it meant revolt against the User, akin to a ''real-world'' malware blocker that can and will prevent a clueless user from downloading suspect material and cleanse the system of what it believes to be suspect; even if the end user wanted it there.
** Cyrus is clearly insane and a StrawNihilist who concluded that [[ItIsBeyondSaving the Grid can't be saved]], so he plans on setting up an electromagnetic bomb to wipe the hard drive and everyone/everything on it. Again, real-world computer troubleshooting ''does'' have a "nuke and pave" option (if that hard drive is too corrupt to save, reformat and start over. Hopefully, you have your important files backed up). Heck, even [[VideoGame/TronTwoPointOh the video game sequel]] used it as a plot point. And depending on your opinion of ''Film/TronLegacy'' Cyrus was probably right about the Grid being a hopeless CrapsackWorld and its inhabitants better off de-rezzed.
* ''WesternAnimation/{{Ultimate Spider-Man}}'': Peter Parker is often depicted as a jerk for wanting to work alone. While it's true that this incarnation of Spider-Man is ''way'' [[TookALevelInDumbass more stupid and]] [[TookALevelInJerkass dickish than usual]], Spidey's arguments to defend himself are pretty valid. His "''friends''" are a [[DesignatedHero bunch of jerkasses]] who frequently harass and disrespect him with little to no reason at all, force themselves in his life without any consent from his part and know much more about him than he does about them. And that's not forgetting about Nick Fury, who for all the claims to be a responsible authority figure, has little to no respect for his recruit's privacy and promises (he placed ''security cameras'' in his house, and their initial agreement ''clearly'' stated that Peter doesn't need to work in a team if he doesn't want to). Therefore, Spider-Man has no actual reason to trust any of them, [[BrokenAesop completely ruining the lesson]] [[HardWorkHardlyWorks of working in a team]]. This comes up again in "The Incredible Spider-Hulk" where Fury acts like Spidey's whining again about his [[NeverAcceptedInHisHometown PR problem]] when it's clear that Jameson constantly berating him has begun to affect his ability to fight crime.
* ''WesternAnimation/XMenEvolution'':
** When Lance joined the X-Men, Scott does not trust him and eventually accuses him of being behind a series of joyrides which have totaled the various X-Vehicles. He is presented as being in the wrong for not trusting Lance and being so apprehensive, in order to motivate Lance [[StatusQuoIsGod to stick with the Brotherhood]], even after Scott realizes he was being a dick about it and apologizes. However, Scott had every right to be suspicious as Lance had been an aggressive criminal and was only interested in joining because of his crush on Kitty. Scott even did try to welcome him at first, but became dissuaded when Lance repeatedly did things for the fun of angering Scott including lying about going on joyrides [[ConflictBall when he did not]].
** ComicBook/{{Magneto}} had schemes such as evolving the mutants he deemed to be 'worthy', and assembling a group of followers to his cause, in preparation for the inevitable war against humans [[TheUnmasquedWorld when the world finds out they exist]]. Xavier always felt he was taking an extreme stance against humanity and opted to reveal themselves when they were ready...except there was one rogue SHIELD agent who deemed mutants a threat to humanity and built a KillerRobot with advanced weaponry to go after Wolverine and the larger X-Men and Brotherhood members, though ''Magneto'' ensured the battle was brought to the world's attention. The result is a widespread witch-hunt against mutants leaving them on the run. [[DeusExitMachina Xavier was conveniently out of commission]] thanks to Mystique, but one wonders what his reaction would be to see police around his school.
* ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice''
** In season 2, G. Gordon Godfrey is an incredibly biased, inflammatory, and paranoid newscaster who constantly criticizes the Justice League unfairly, is suspicious towards aliens in general, spreads obvious misinformation and propaganda, and [[spoiler:is revealed in the finale to be working for the villains]]. Unfortunately, his fundamental message of promoting public accountability of the League does ring true, however obvious it is that the heroes are in the right. The League keeps a lot of secrets from the public for arbitrary reasons; they don't even publicly announce a team member's death to avoid "people thinking we're mortal". They are an organization of superhumans and nonhumans responsible for the safety and security of the entire Earth, but they really aren't beholden to anyone except themselves. In more than a few ways the Justice League still acts like a secret group of vigilantes, despite being an extremely powerful public institution that consistently interferes in global affairs.
** The ambassador of the Reach is likewise presented as a villainous mouthpiece whose words are poison, but he actually never makes a single accusation regarding the league that isn't both true and describing something that's extremely illegal for very good reasons. He stands out especially for pointing out that the [[ChildSoldiers basic premise of the series]] in itself makes the League guilty of a war crime that would get pretty much any other nation occupied by the UN.
14th Dec '17 7:03:35 PM NineballCirno
Is there an issue? Send a Message






This list shows the last 10 events of 3225. Show all.