2 Days Left to Support a Troper-Created Project : Personal Space (discuss)

History Main / StrawManHasaPoint

22nd May '16 11:44:23 AM TheUnknownUploader
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** Zacharias Smith is skeptical about Harry's version of events after ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' and is portrayed as a JerkAss for not immediately believing Harry. But he doesn't have the privileged viewpoint of the readership, and Harry has been very close-mouthed about what happened. Later books show him to be a Jerkass for other reasons, such as providing a more biased commentary for a Quidditch match then Lee Jordan and being the first to [[DirtyCoward bail at the Battle of Hogwarts.]]

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** Zacharias Smith is skeptical about Harry's version of events after ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire'' and is portrayed as a JerkAss for not immediately believing Harry. But he doesn't have the privileged viewpoint of the readership, and Harry has been very close-mouthed about what happened. [[note]] Note that Zacharias only showed up to ask Harry to tell his version of events, and immediately complaining upon hearing them makes him look like an UngratefulBastard. [[/note]] Later books show him to be a Jerkass for other reasons, such as providing a more biased commentary for a Quidditch match then Lee Jordan and being the first to [[DirtyCoward bail at the Battle of Hogwarts.]]
16th May '16 11:14:56 PM jormis29
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** Godfrey also welcomes the Reach and supports them over the Justice League because (as far as he knows,) they come to Earth openly, answer any questions they get asked and don't start massive meta-human fights in public areas. When it becomes clear that the Reach have lied about not bringing warships to Earth, Godfrey immediately calls them out for it, showing that his beliefs are actually sincere and it's not simply an irrational hatred of the Justice League.
16th May '16 11:03:06 PM mzytryck01
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** Godfrey also welcomes the Reach and supports them over the Justice League because (as far as he knows,) they come to Earth openly, answer any questions they get asked and don't start massive meta-human fights in public areas. When it becomes clear that the Reach have lied about not bringing warships to Earth, Godfrey immediately calls them out for it, showing that his beliefs are actually sincere and it's not simply an irrational hatred of the Justice League.
7th May '16 11:20:43 PM Fireblood
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* ''Series/TheDailyShow'': In the March 18, 2010 episode, while making fun of Radio/GlennBeck making fun of progressives, Jon Stewart {{lampshade|Hanging}}s this when he says "Hmm... Strawman-[[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Slippery-Slope-]][[DumbassHasAPoint Dumb-Guy]] might have a point."

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* ''Series/TheDailyShow'': In the [[http://www.cc.com/video-clips/gmgfdo/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-conservative-libertarian March 18, 2010 episode, episode]], while making fun of Radio/GlennBeck making fun of progressives, Jon Stewart {{lampshade|Hanging}}s this when he says "Hmm... Strawman-[[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope Slippery-Slope-]][[DumbassHasAPoint Dumb-Guy]] might have a point."
7th May '16 5:49:05 PM Fireblood
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** Later on in the film, Kevin's mother slaps the hotel concierge for telling her not to go out looking for Kevin by herself, even though he points how huge and dangerous New York is, especially in the middle of the night, which is when she wants to go looking. Even Kevin's dad tries to tell her it's a bad idea, but she's insistent. We're supposed to take her side as a concerned parent, but she's needlessly putting herself in all kinds of danger just on the off-chance she might find out where Kevin is in a town as huge as New York City.

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** Later on in the film, Kevin's mother slaps the hotel concierge for telling her not to go out looking for Kevin by herself, even though he points how huge and dangerous New York is, especially in the middle of the night, which is when she wants to go looking. Even Kevin's dad tries to tell her it's a bad idea, but she's insistent. We're supposed to take her side as a concerned parent, but she's needlessly putting herself in all kinds of danger just on the off-chance she might find out where Kevin is in a town place as huge as New York City.



* In ''Film/IronMan2'' Senator Stern is an ass [[spoiler:and a member of HYDRA]], and Hammer is an idiot, but both of them make a lot of valid points in the senate hearing. Tony is a loose cannon, his suit is a weapon (whether he likes the term or not) of the sort that would ordinarily be denied a private citizen, and he is acting totally independent of anyone who could review his actions or rein him in if he gets out of control. None of these things are remotely desirable traits in someone who is trying to be a one-man police for the whole world. Notably, SHIELD ''agrees'' with Stern and Hammer that while Iron Man is useful, ''Tony Stark'' is too unstable. They still call him in for Avengers, on the grounds that they've hit the GodzillaThreshold.
* In ''Film/{{JFK}}'', the opposing argument to Jim Garrison's conspiracy scenario is laid out nicely by Bill Broussard (played by Creator/MichaelRooker). While yes, Broussard was [[spoiler:secretly working with the FBI against Garrison]], he nonetheless raises an excellent point when he criticizes Garrison's scenario regarding the assassination of [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy President Kennedy]] - which, according to Garrison, involves the CIA, FBI, anti-Castro Cubans, the Mafia, the Dallas Police, right-wing oil billionaires, and the military-industrial complex to name just a few. Broussard lays out the best argument for lone gunman proponents when he says that such a conspiracy would be impossible to successfully pull off and keep a secret, owing to how complicated such a conspiracy would be and how many people would have to be involved. True, Broussard's own theory isn't great either, but his criticism of Garrison unintentionally undermines the film's pro-conspiracy message. Given that Garrison is mostly a mouthpiece for Creator/OliverStone to voice his own views, and that the person whom Broussard was based upon was claimed by the real Garrison to have undermined his case from day one (and Stone largely believed whatever Garrison said), Broussard is treated as a villain while Garrison is portrayed as in the right, regardless of the nonsensical nature of his entire premise.

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* In ''Film/IronMan2'' Senator Stern is an ass [[spoiler:and a member of HYDRA]], and Hammer is an idiot, but both of them make a lot of valid points in the senate hearing. Tony is a loose cannon, his suit is a weapon (whether he likes the term or not) of the sort that would ordinarily be denied a private citizen, and he is acting totally independent of anyone who could review his actions or rein him in if he gets out of control. None of these things are remotely desirable traits in someone who is trying to be a one-man police force for the whole world. Notably, SHIELD ''agrees'' with Stern and Hammer that while Iron Man is useful, ''Tony Stark'' is too unstable. They still call him in for Avengers, on the grounds that they've hit the GodzillaThreshold.
* In ''Film/{{JFK}}'', the opposing argument to Jim Garrison's conspiracy scenario is laid out nicely by Bill Broussard (played by Creator/MichaelRooker). While yes, Broussard was [[spoiler:secretly working with the FBI against Garrison]], he nonetheless raises an excellent point when he criticizes Garrison's scenario regarding the assassination of [[UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy President Kennedy]] - which, according to Garrison, involves the CIA, FBI, anti-Castro Cubans, the Mafia, the Dallas Police, right-wing oil billionaires, and the military-industrial complex to name just a few. Broussard lays out the best argument for lone gunman proponents when he says that such a conspiracy would be impossible to successfully pull off and keep a secret, owing to how complicated such a conspiracy would be and how many people would have to be involved.involved (something real people have also argued). True, Broussard's own theory isn't great either, but his criticism of Garrison unintentionally undermines the film's pro-conspiracy message. Given that Garrison is mostly a mouthpiece for Creator/OliverStone to voice his own views, and that the person whom Broussard was based upon was claimed by the real Garrison to have undermined his case from day one (and Stone largely believed whatever Garrison said), Broussard is treated as a villain while Garrison is portrayed as in the right, regardless of the nonsensical nature of his entire premise.
7th May '16 5:41:57 PM Fireblood
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* In ''Film/FridayThe13thPartVIJasonLives'', Tommy Jarvis desperately attempts to warn the Crystal Lake/Forest Green police after he accidentally brings SerialKiller Jason Voorhees [[BackFromTheDead back to life]], but nobody but the sheriff's own daughter will believe him. Jason's subsequent [[KillEmAll bloodbath]] only convinces the cops that Tommy himself is the killer, acting out a delusion of Jason's return. Never mind that the sheriff's daughter can vouch for Tommy because he was ''with her'' during two of the murders. The cops are only forced to accept Tommy's story when they are attacked by Jason himself at the camp, and promptly killed. We are supposed to side with Tommy and see [[PoliceAreUseless the policemen as useless buffoons]], but on the other hand, when a kid who spent several years in the institution and is under psychiatric care shows up and claims a notorious murderer, who is dead and buried for years, was revived by a lightning and is now a zombie, prowling around with a machete and killing people, would you believe him unconditionally? And Megan's statement means only that Tommy could have an alibi for two of the murders, not for the rest of them.

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* In ''Film/FridayThe13thPartVIJasonLives'', Tommy Jarvis desperately attempts to warn the Crystal Lake/Forest Green police after he accidentally brings SerialKiller Jason Voorhees [[BackFromTheDead back to life]], but nobody but the sheriff's own daughter will believe him. Jason's subsequent [[KillEmAll bloodbath]] only convinces the cops that Tommy himself is the killer, acting out a delusion of Jason's return. Never mind that the sheriff's daughter can vouch for Tommy because he was ''with her'' during two of the murders. The cops are only forced to accept Tommy's story when they are attacked by Jason himself at the camp, and promptly killed. We are supposed to side with Tommy and see [[PoliceAreUseless the policemen as useless buffoons]], but on the other hand, when a kid who spent several years in the an institution and is under psychiatric care shows up and claims a notorious murderer, who is dead and buried for years, was revived by a lightning strike and is now a zombie, prowling around with a machete and killing people, would you believe him unconditionally? And Megan's statement means only that Tommy could have an alibi for two of the murders, not for the rest of them.



** In the Creator/RolandEmmerich ''Film/{{Godzilla|1998}}'', Mayor Ebert is already intended to be a character the audience should hate [[TakeThatCritics because he's clearly based on]] Creator/RogerEbert, who criticized some of Emmerich's previous films. Therefore, he's set up as a whiny moron who constantly badgers the military and makes terrible decisions in light of a mass panic. However, most of them are dead on - at one point he chastises the commander for doing more damage than the lizard himself (at which point he is comically thrown a bag of chocolates because HE'S FAT). He's ''dead right'' though - at the time he shouts that line, the military's blundering, clumsy efforts and lack of regard for life and property in containing Godzilla have caused far more on-camera casualties than Godzilla himself has. One of the highlights being the military's destruction of the Chrysler building when they miss Godzilla... no doubt there were still people inside given how many people were still trapped inside the city (and not to mention a building of that size going down would make a lot of collateral damage...), which prompted the outburst in the first place.

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** In the Creator/RolandEmmerich ''Film/{{Godzilla|1998}}'', Mayor Ebert is already intended to be a character the audience should hate [[TakeThatCritics because he's clearly based on]] Creator/RogerEbert, who criticized some of Emmerich's previous films. Therefore, he's set up as a whiny moron who constantly badgers the military and makes terrible decisions in light of a mass panic. However, most of them are dead on - at one point he chastises the commander for doing more damage than the lizard himself (at which point he is comically thrown a bag of chocolates because HE'S FAT). He's ''dead right'' though - at the time he shouts that line, the military's blundering, clumsy efforts and lack of regard for life and property in containing Godzilla have caused far more on-camera casualties than Godzilla himself has. One of the highlights being the military's destruction of the Chrysler building when they miss Godzilla... no No doubt there were still people inside given how many people were still trapped inside the city (and not to mention a building of that size going down would make a lot of collateral damage...), which prompted the outburst in the first place.



* The title character of ''Film/{{Hitch}}'' makes some very valid points about continuing with one's life, adapting, and moving on after a relationship goes sour. He gets called out on this by one of his clients who outright calls him a coward for not chasing after one's love; granted, in the client's case, the breakup was because of a misunderstanding, but on Hitch's case there was a very clear and valid reason for it. As expected, since the film is a RomanticComedy, Hitch gives in and goes great lengths to get back his love interest even after several rejections, incurring extreme behavior and injuries to himself.

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* The title character of ''Film/{{Hitch}}'' makes some very valid points about continuing with one's life, adapting, and moving on after a relationship goes sour. He gets called out on this by one of his clients who outright calls him a coward for not chasing after one's love; granted, in the client's case, the breakup was because of a misunderstanding, but on in Hitch's case there was a very clear and valid reason for it. As expected, since the film is a RomanticComedy, Hitch gives in and goes great lengths to get back his love interest even after several rejections, incurring extreme behavior and injuries to himself.



* Ebert's [[http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030221/REVIEWS/302210304/1023 review]] of ''Film/TheLifeOfDavidGale'', which is a different type of this trope wherein the movie's central characters go ''so ridiculously far'' to show that their position is right, you can not help but be disgusted with them. [[spoiler: The characters were going for "the death penalty is wrong because an innocent man can potentially be executed". What they actually proved was "if you deliberately conceal the evidence that you are innocent from the court until after its too late to do anything, it will arrive too late to do anything". Well, ''duh''.]]

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* Ebert's [[http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030221/REVIEWS/302210304/1023 review]] of ''Film/TheLifeOfDavidGale'', which is a different type of this trope wherein the movie's central characters go ''so ridiculously far'' to show that their position is right, you can not cannot help but be disgusted with them. [[spoiler: The characters were going for "the death penalty is wrong because an innocent man can potentially be executed". What they actually proved was "if you deliberately conceal the evidence that you are innocent from the court until after its too late to do anything, it will arrive too late to do anything". Well, ''duh''.]]
7th May '16 4:21:22 PM Fireblood
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* In ''Film/{{Bruno}}'', Creator/{{Sacha Baron Cohen}}'s goal as the titular character is to "expose the undercurrent of homophobia in American society". But he does this by assuming the character of an outrageously, nauseatingly flamboyant caricature of the worst stereotypes of homosexual men, (to say nothing of [[ThoseWackyNazis idolizing Hitler as Austria's greatest national character]]) and then engaging what is fundamentally sexual harassment of various men who cross his path. The "homosexual hate" he encounters, in a lot of cases, feels less like homophobia and more like a perfectly natural response to being accosted by such an unpleasant, highly offensive individual.

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* In ''Film/{{Bruno}}'', Creator/{{Sacha Baron Cohen}}'s goal as the titular character is to "expose the undercurrent of homophobia in American society". But he does this by assuming the character of an outrageously, nauseatingly flamboyant caricature of the worst stereotypes of homosexual men, (to say nothing of [[ThoseWackyNazis idolizing Hitler as Austria's greatest national character]]) and then engaging in what is fundamentally sexual harassment of various men who cross his path. The "homosexual hate" he encounters, in a lot of cases, feels less like homophobia and more like a perfectly natural response to being accosted by such an unpleasant, highly offensive individual.
2nd May '16 9:02:25 AM Peridonyx
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* In ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep'', Master Eraqus may be a ''big'' KnightTemplar against Darkness--as seen when he tries to [[spoiler:kill two of his own pupils to end Master Xehanort's plans for them]]--but given the near-endless amount of DarkIsEvil in the series--not to mention [[spoiler:said pupils later having worse fates in contrast]]--one can't help but find him ProperlyParanoid.

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* In ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep'', Master Eraqus may be a ''big'' KnightTemplar against Darkness--as Darkness -- as seen when he tries to [[spoiler:kill two of his own pupils to end Master Xehanort's plans for them]]--but them]] -- but given the near-endless amount of DarkIsEvil in the series--not series -- not to mention [[spoiler:said pupils later having worse fates in contrast]]--one contrast]] -- one can't help but find him ProperlyParanoid.
30th Apr '16 1:31:45 PM AnonFangeekGirl
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* This comes up a lot in the works sporked by ''Blog/DasSporking''. Usually, it's the [[RonTheDeathEater Weasleys]] who do it. A few examples:
** ''The Real Us'' (a H/Hr shipping story about the events that ''really'' took place during the ''Literature/HarryPotter'' series, the canon events being a series of lies told by Harry and Hermione) has the pair tell a crowd of people how Hermione gave Harry a blowjob in thanks for him saving her from the troll (Remember, they're 12 and 11 respectively by this point). Molly Weasley points out to Harry that ''maybe'' the girl who forced herself on him was ''not a nice person''. Harry mocks her for saying this, and her intent in this story is to force Harry to be with Ginny and Hermione to be with Ron, but what Hermione did is (in Muggle Britain) considered sexual assault.
29th Apr '16 4:25:21 PM AnonFangeekGirl
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* The so-called villains in ''FanFic/TheConversionBureau'', the Human Liberation Front, see ponies as a threat to mankind -- and given that the ponies' goal is ''the total extinction of the human species'' (or at least that's how it is in Chatoyance's recursives and not the original story, which has been overshadowed by Chatoyance's work), they are absolutely right. Fics like ''Fanfic/TheConversionBureauNotAlone'' and ''FanFic/TheConversionBureauTheOtherSideOfTheSpectrum'' take this and run with it, portraying the bureau as villains.

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* The so-called villains A common villainous group in ''FanFic/TheConversionBureau'', ''FanFic/TheConversionBureau'' fanfics, the Human Liberation Front, Front (which doesn't exist in the original fanfic), see ponies as a threat to mankind -- and given that the ponies' goal is ''the often the total extinction of humans, sometimes with side-orders of GettingSmiliesPaintedOnYourSoul (And for every fanfic that paints ponification as a [[NecessarilyEvil necessary evil]] and a last resort, there's several more that have the human species'' (or at least that's how it is in Chatoyance's recursives and not ponies intentionally creating the original story, which has been overshadowed by Chatoyance's work), threat in order to force ponification), they are absolutely right. Fics Anti-Conversion Bureau fics like ''Fanfic/TheConversionBureauNotAlone'' and ''FanFic/TheConversionBureauTheOtherSideOfTheSpectrum'' take this and run with it, portraying the bureau as villains.villains, although notably, ''Other Side of the Spectrum'' doesn't portray the HLF as right- they're basically the horribly-extremist anti-pony side, while the protagonists belong to a much more moderate anti-Equestrai faction.
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