History Main / RPGsEqualCombat

26th Apr '18 2:30:28 PM StoneBasilisk
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** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a ''[[Franchise/TheWorldOfDarkness World of Darkness]]'' game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane and then an NPC. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.

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** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a ''[[Franchise/TheWorldOfDarkness World of Darkness]]'' game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane [[NonStandardGameOver and then an NPC.NPC]]. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.
10th Apr '18 1:32:19 PM costanton11
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** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a ''Franchise/WorldOfDarkness'' game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane and then an NPC. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.

to:

** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a ''Franchise/WorldOfDarkness'' ''[[Franchise/TheWorldOfDarkness World of Darkness]]'' game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane and then an NPC. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.
7th Apr '18 10:39:39 AM nombretomado
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** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a WorldOfDarkness game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane and then an NPC. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.

to:

** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a WorldOfDarkness ''Franchise/WorldOfDarkness'' game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane and then an NPC. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.
4th Mar '18 8:36:06 PM nombretomado
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* ''{{Strife}}'' was one of the first First-person Shooters to include RPGElements, but managed to avert this trope. In addition to being able to enhance the player character's abilities, it also included [=NPCs=] that you could talk to, as well as MultipleEndings. And even then, ability upgrades weren't obtained by killing enemies for ExperiencePoints, but instead were obtained over the course of the story. Namely, these came in the form of training sessions and biotech implants which became available one by one as you advanced in the main storyline.

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* ''{{Strife}}'' ''{{VideoGame/Strife}}'' was one of the first First-person Shooters to include RPGElements, but managed to avert this trope. In addition to being able to enhance the player character's abilities, it also included [=NPCs=] that you could talk to, as well as MultipleEndings. And even then, ability upgrades weren't obtained by killing enemies for ExperiencePoints, but instead were obtained over the course of the story. Namely, these came in the form of training sessions and biotech implants which became available one by one as you advanced in the main storyline.
7th Feb '18 11:34:07 AM BeerBaron
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* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' games avert this trope by tying all EXP gain to the use of skills and rewarding levels after a certain number of skill level up points have been earned. What this means in practice is that a Warrior character who smashes everything that moves with an axe, a Mage who makes extensive use of charms to make others do his dirty work for him, and a Thief who sneaks around and robs people blind will all level up at roughly the same rate.
** The bulk of the series is combat related, though, so if you level too much in a non-combat skill your opponents can become too much for you to handle due to LevelScaling.
** This trope does heavily stick out in the Mages Guild (or equivalent) questlines though: being set in universities or research institutions, NPC mages are often shown doing weird and wonderful things and investigating the fabric of the universe, but for obvious reasons the player is left unable to actually do anything with magic other than fight or buff using other people's spells. One of the weirdest examples of this is in ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'' with Arniel Gane; the Winterhold mage, Alteration professor, and researcher of the Dwemer tries to figure out what happened to them and recreate it. [[spoiler:He does]]. Later you can summon him (or rather, [[spoiler:his shade]]) to aid in combat in combat. A three-part quest about the fascinating question on how the Dwemer disappeared spent running errands and combating Dwemer mechs only to get a (admittedly useful) Conjuring spell.

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* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' games avert ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** The series averts
this trope in general by tying all having Skills increase through use, rather than give you an EXP gain to the use of skills and rewarding levels after gain. After you've increased a certain number of skill skills (typically 10), you'll level up points have been earned.up. What this means in practice is that a Warrior character who smashes everything that moves with an axe, a Mage who makes extensive use of charms to make others do his dirty work for him, and a Thief who sneaks around and robs people blind will all level up at roughly the same rate.
** The bulk That said, there are typically several cases per game where combat is unavoidable. Given that (with the sole exception of ''Morrowind'') the series is combat related, though, so if you level too much in a uses fairly strict LevelScaling, increasing non-combat skill related skills can leave you at a severe disadvantage in these situations as the enemy will be scaled to your opponents can become too much for you to handle due to LevelScaling.
level, not your actual combat ability.
** This trope does also heavily stick sticks out in the [[MagicalSociety Mages Guild Guild]] (or equivalent) questlines though: questlines. being set in universities or research institutions, NPC mages are often shown doing weird and wonderful things and investigating the fabric of the universe, but for obvious reasons the player is left unable to actually do anything with magic other than fight or buff using other people's spells. One of the weirdest examples of this is in ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'' ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'' with Arniel Gane; the Winterhold mage, Alteration professor, and researcher of the Dwemer tries to figure out what happened to them and recreate it. [[spoiler:He does]]. Later you can summon him (or rather, [[spoiler:his shade]]) to aid in combat in combat. A three-part quest about the fascinating question on how the Dwemer disappeared spent running errands and combating Dwemer mechs only to get a (admittedly useful) Conjuring spell.
1st Jan '18 11:29:31 PM ninjamitsuki2
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Added DiffLines:

[[AC:Roguelike]]
* ''VideoGame/{{Elona}}'' allows you to gain experience and level up from cooking, playing music, fishing, farming, or simply completing odd jobs. Beating bosses is required to complete the main quest, but it's pretty much optional, and because of [[WideOpenSandbox the nature of the game]], it's quite possible to enjoy the game without ever setting foot in a dungeon.
19th Dec '17 5:40:55 PM DastardlyDemolition
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* ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' on the other hand pushes straight into "shoot first, ask vague questions when the story tells you to". Stealth becomes a lot harder to even do as you need to be at least level 38 to max out your "Sneak" perk (no more skills) and then find the rest of the stuff to actually be able to sneak around better. You can't talk your way out of boss fights as easily and some can't let you do that at all.
** Even the DLC do this: ''Nuka-World'''s good ending is solely slaughtering the entirety of the raiders that inhabit the theme park.
6th Dec '17 12:28:52 PM GM_3826
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Some pen-and-paper RPG designers, however, maintain that putting a combat system distinct from the rest of the resolution system leads the players to rely mostly on fights (similarly, the presence of an elaborate magic system would hint the importance of supernatural forces in the verse). Most games with no focus on combat do solve conflicts of any nature the same way, be it a rough negotiation or a duel. Games like ''sweet agatha'' or ''breaking the ice'', focusing on investigation and romance respectively, do not have such systems at all, since it is unlikely any physical confrontation will happen.

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Some pen-and-paper RPG designers, however, maintain that putting a combat system distinct from the rest of the resolution system leads the players to rely mostly on fights (similarly, the presence of an elaborate magic system would hint the importance of supernatural forces in the verse). Most games with no focus on combat do solve conflicts of any nature the same way, be it a rough negotiation or a duel. Games like ''sweet agatha'' ''Sweet Agatha'' or ''breaking ''Breaking the ice'', Ice'', focusing on investigation and romance respectively, do not have such systems at all, since it is unlikely any physical confrontation will happen.
16th Nov '17 8:08:34 AM Vishiz
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* ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'' Avert this most of the time. Both experience and money is gained through plot triggers and quest solving rather than fighting. Several quests give you more XP for being stealthy or non-violent and there are very little quests available in general that has no solution other than violence. Unfortunately, at least 6 mandatory boss fights and 2 encounters with mooks would needs to be finished in order to complete the main story and they will require an actual confrontation. But aside from those rare situations most of the time the player will just explore the world, pick locks, hack the computers, search something, do some platforming, talk to a lot of characters and runaway/hide from enemies if playing as an diplomacy- or stealth-oriented hero. Contrary to popular belief, the infamous sewers section has no actual unavoidable fights and both final stages is on 99%(cause bosses) beatable by sneaking.

to:

* ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'' Avert this most of the time. Both experience and money is gained through plot triggers and quest solving rather than fighting. Several quests give you more XP for being stealthy or non-violent and there are very little quests available in general that has no solution other than violence. Unfortunately, at least 6 mandatory boss fights and 2 encounters with mooks would needs to be finished in order to complete the main story and they will require an actual confrontation. But aside from those rare situations most of the time the player will just explore the world, read, pick locks, solve puzzles, hack the computers, search something, do some platforming, talk to a lot of characters and runaway/hide from enemies if playing as an diplomacy- or stealth-oriented hero. Contrary to popular belief, the infamous sewers section has no actual unavoidable fights and both final stages is on 99%(cause bosses) beatable by sneaking.
30th Oct '17 6:11:50 AM Vishiz
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* ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'' Avert this most of the time. Both experience and money is gained through plot triggers and quest solving rather than fighting. Several quests give you more XP for being stealthy or non-violent and there are very little quests available in general that has no solution other than a violent one. Unfortunately at least 6 mandatory boss fights needs to be finished in order to complete main story and they will require an actual confrontation. But aside from those rare situations most of the time the player will just explore the world, pick locks, hack the computers, search something, do some platforming, talk to a lot of characters and runaway/hide from enemies if playing as an diplomacy- or stealth-oriented hero. Contrary to popular belief, the infamous sewers section has no actual unavoidable fights and both final stages is on 99%(cause bosses) beatable by sneaking.

to:

* ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'' Avert this most of the time. Both experience and money is gained through plot triggers and quest solving rather than fighting. Several quests give you more XP for being stealthy or non-violent and there are very little quests available in general that has no solution other than a violent one. Unfortunately violence. Unfortunately, at least 6 mandatory boss fights and 2 encounters with mooks would needs to be finished in order to complete the main story and they will require an actual confrontation. But aside from those rare situations most of the time the player will just explore the world, pick locks, hack the computers, search something, do some platforming, talk to a lot of characters and runaway/hide from enemies if playing as an diplomacy- or stealth-oriented hero. Contrary to popular belief, the infamous sewers section has no actual unavoidable fights and both final stages is on 99%(cause bosses) beatable by sneaking.
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