History Main / RPGsEqualCombat

24th Jul '16 12:38:57 PM TheKaizerreich
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* ''VideoGame/{{Oneshot}}'' has no combat, only item puzzles and {{Fetch Quest}}s.
17th May '16 7:08:23 AM Koveras
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Of course, the way that character choice is expressed in rules-heavy [=RPGs=] is through your choice of character exerting a direct influence on how you are, and aren't, able to play the game. Since most computer games are primarily about combat, that character customization naturally boils down to choosing between different ways to kill things.

This is exacerbated if combat is the primary or sole source of ExperiencePoints, money, or other resources, so that ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption. But that's no problem, since there are MonstersEverywhere. However, it is possible that it is an actual legitimate RPG; it's just that everyone considers the [[PlayTheGameSkipTheStory plot a side benefit at best]].

So many [=RPGs=] do this, it's easier just to list the aversions.

Where other genres are concerned, this leads into RPGElements, which usually work exactly the same.

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Of course, the way that character choice is expressed in rules-heavy [=RPGs=] is through your choice of character exerting a direct influence on how you are, and aren't, able to play the game. Since most computer games are primarily about combat, that character customization naturally boils down to choosing between different ways to kill things.

things. This is exacerbated if combat is the primary or sole source of ExperiencePoints, money, or other resources, so that ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption. But that's no problem, since there are MonstersEverywhere. However, it is possible that it is an actual legitimate RPG; it's just that everyone considers the [[PlayTheGameSkipTheStory plot a side benefit at best]].

This trope is also often in effect in {{Tabletop RPG}}s, as most of them are still aimed at "action" genres, where combat is a common mode of conflict resolution by definition. Since combat is supposed to be dangerous and exciting, yet also "fair" so the players don't feel cheated if their character suffers appropriate consequences, such games tend to have combat systems that can easily be an order of magnitude or two more complex than their rules for resolving ''non''-combat challenges (which frequently are handled with just a die roll or two before moving on). This quite naturally tends to reinforce the impression that this trope is in effect regardless of how things actually work out at any individual gaming table in practice.

Some pen-and-paper RPG designers, however, maintain that putting a combat system distinct from the rest of the resolution system leads the players to rely mostly on fights (similarly, the presence of an elaborate magic system would hint the importance of supernatural forces in the verse). Most games with no focus on combat do solve conflicts of any nature the same way, be it a rough negotiation or a duel. Games like ''sweet agatha'' or ''breaking the ice'', focusing on investigation and romance respectively, do not have such systems at all, since it is unlikely any physical confrontation will happen.

So many [=RPGs=] do this, it's easier just to list the aversions.

aversions. Where other genres are concerned, this leads into RPGElements, which usually work exactly the same.



* Since most tabletop [=RPGs=] are still aimed at "action" genres, where combat is a common mode of conflict resolution by definition, and since combat is also supposed to be dangerous and exciting (yet also preferably "fair" so the players don't feel cheated if their character suffers appropriate consequences) and thus nothing to be passed over with just a couple of die rolls before moving on with the plot, games still tend to have combat systems that can easily be an order of magnitude or two more complex than their rules for resolving ''non''-combat challenges (which frequently ''are'' handled with just a die roll or two before moving on). This quite naturally tends to reinforce the impression that this trope is in effect regardless of how things actually work out at any individual gaming table in practice.
* However, some [=RPGs=]' creators avert this and state that putting a combat system distinct from the rest of the resolution system leads the players to rely mostly on fights (similarly, the presence of a magic system would hint the importance of supernatural forces in the verse). Most games with no focus on combat do solve conflicts of any nature the same way, be it a rough negotiation or a duel.Games like ''sweet agatha'' or ''breaking the ice'', focusing on investigation and romance respectively do not have such systems, since it is unlikely any physical confrontation will happen.



* The TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade and TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem are supposed to be more about politics, intrigue, social interaction, background fluff and the internal struggles of its characters as they try to avoid becoming monsters, so combat is intended as more of a climactic experience, rather than an everyday occurence. A pure combat-built character generally wouldn't make it long in vampiric society without political allies to shield them from betrayal, at least in theory. In practice, many groups prefered to ditch the whole psychological horror aspect and play it as an action game instead.

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* The TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' and TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem ''TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem'' are supposed to be more about politics, intrigue, social interaction, background fluff and the internal struggles of its characters as they try to avoid becoming monsters, so combat is intended as more of a climactic experience, rather than an everyday occurence. A pure combat-built character generally wouldn't make it long in vampiric society without political allies to shield them from betrayal, at least in theory. In practice, many groups prefered to ditch the whole psychological horror aspect and play it as an action game instead.



9th Apr '16 2:10:59 PM TotemicHero
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* ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' is mostly combat oriented, but you also get experience from discovering new areas, completing quests that don't involve combat such as most fishing and cooking dailies, gathering herbs and ore and surveying for archeology fragments.* One player infamously averted this and made it to the maximum level in vanilla [=WoW=] (Level 50) without ever killing anything or setting foot in a dungeon, opting only to gather materials, craft, explore, and do errand quests. The developers gave them a custom title "The Pacifist" as proof.

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* ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' is mostly combat oriented, but you also get experience from discovering new areas, completing quests that don't involve combat such as most fishing and cooking dailies, gathering herbs and ore and surveying for archeology fragments.* One player infamously averted A handful of players attempted to avert this and made make it to the maximum level in vanilla [=WoW=] (Level 50) (varied depending on which expansion they did it during) without ever killing anything or setting foot in a dungeon, opting only to gather materials, craft, explore, and do errand quests. explore. The developers gave them a custom title "The Pacifist" as proof.most recent reported case was [[http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/14/3502778/pacifist-world-of-warcraft-player-maxes-level-without-killing the druid Irenic]], who made it to level 90 during ''Mists of Pandaria''.
24th Feb '16 9:18:44 AM supergod
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* ''PlanescapeTorment'', where there are exactly two people that absolutely have to be fought and one of those is part of the tutorial.

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* ''PlanescapeTorment'', where there are exactly two plenty of ''potential'' combat situations, but only about three people that absolutely have to be fought and one of those is part of the tutorial.
16th Dec '15 11:32:42 AM Morgenthaler
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* Averted in ''{{Risus}}''. The majority of the (four-page) rulebook describes the all-important combat rules, and the Risus RPG really does equal combat. However, combat doesn't necessarily equal violence - possible combats described include playing chess, getting an unreliable vending machine to work, beating rush-hour traffic to stop the BigBad…
* ''TheDarkEye'''s commercially available adventure sets have experience gains for killing, but most points come from finishing the adventure (Not finishing it alive, but solving it). In the 3rd edition, most creatures had no experience rewards anymore, and in the 4th edition, players only get experience for seeing or dealing with a creature for the first time (like it's a new experience). The first edition was released in 1983.

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* Averted in ''{{Risus}}''.''TabletopGame/{{Risus}}''. The majority of the (four-page) rulebook describes the all-important combat rules, and the Risus RPG really does equal combat. However, combat doesn't necessarily equal violence - possible combats described include playing chess, getting an unreliable vending machine to work, beating rush-hour traffic to stop the BigBad…
* ''TheDarkEye'''s ''TabletopGame/TheDarkEye'''s commercially available adventure sets have experience gains for killing, but most points come from finishing the adventure (Not finishing it alive, but solving it). In the 3rd edition, most creatures had no experience rewards anymore, and in the 4th edition, players only get experience for seeing or dealing with a creature for the first time (like it's a new experience). The first edition was released in 1983.



* Averted in ''{{Rifts}}'', of all things. The experience tables list rewards for accomplishing goals or neutralizing threats, with no direct correlation between enemies killed and XP gained.
* In ''TheRiddleOfSteel'', characters have special stats called Spiritual Attributes. Five of these are selected at character creations, with the details filled out by the player (for instance, one Spiritual Attribute may be Drive: To rescue his daughter). Whenever an action contributes to the goal, temperament or ethics of a Spiritual Attribute, that Spiritual Attribute grows. They can be used to ways:

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* Averted in ''{{Rifts}}'', ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}'', of all things. The experience tables list rewards for accomplishing goals or neutralizing threats, with no direct correlation between enemies killed and XP gained.
* In ''TheRiddleOfSteel'', ''TabletopGame/TheRiddleOfSteel'', characters have special stats called Spiritual Attributes. Five of these are selected at character creations, with the details filled out by the player (for instance, one Spiritual Attribute may be Drive: To rescue his daughter). Whenever an action contributes to the goal, temperament or ethics of a Spiritual Attribute, that Spiritual Attribute grows. They can be used to ways:



* The VampireTheMasquerade and VampireTheRequiem are supposed to be more about politics, intrigue, social interaction, background fluff and the internal struggles of its characters as they try to avoid becoming monsters, so combat is intended as more of a climactic experience, rather than an everyday occurence. A pure combat-built character generally wouldn't make it long in vampiric society without political allies to shield them from betrayal, at least in theory. In practice, many groups prefered to ditch the whole psychological horror aspect and play it as an action game instead.

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* The VampireTheMasquerade TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade and VampireTheRequiem TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem are supposed to be more about politics, intrigue, social interaction, background fluff and the internal struggles of its characters as they try to avoid becoming monsters, so combat is intended as more of a climactic experience, rather than an everyday occurence. A pure combat-built character generally wouldn't make it long in vampiric society without political allies to shield them from betrayal, at least in theory. In practice, many groups prefered to ditch the whole psychological horror aspect and play it as an action game instead.
1st Nov '15 11:12:51 PM VVK
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* ''VideoGame/ADanceWithRogues'' gives more XP for non-combat solutions and makes combat really hard in general, particularly before you level up enough to effectively TakeALevelInBadass. It plays almost like SurvivalHorror at the beginning, except with sexual molesters instead of monsters, and more "survival" than "horror".
30th Oct '15 2:40:09 PM Deblin
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** Making pure combat viable involves a lot of house rules and removing a lot of mechanics (meaning such games are more a custom homebrew than a WorldOfDarkness game). In the rules-as-written game it's not really possible, because serial murder is the second worst sin on the morality scale and your character will quickly become insane and then an NPC. Even just intentionally using violence as a problem-solving tool will drop you fairly low and drive you insane fairly quickly.
** And even if you manage to avoid the actual breaking point, even mildly lowered humanity makes it increasingly difficult not to crawl into your grave and sleep for a century.
4th Oct '15 3:44:33 PM Thnikkafan
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* It's possible to go through ''{{Undertale}}'' without killing ''anything''. Every monster and boss can be either fought or negated in a different manner, turning every enemy into a PuzzleBoss to one degree or another.
3rd Jul '15 5:51:55 AM Asgar
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to:

* The VampireTheMasquerade and VampireTheRequiem are supposed to be more about politics, intrigue, social interaction, background fluff and the internal struggles of its characters as they try to avoid becoming monsters, so combat is intended as more of a climactic experience, rather than an everyday occurence. A pure combat-built character generally wouldn't make it long in vampiric society without political allies to shield them from betrayal, at least in theory. In practice, many groups prefered to ditch the whole psychological horror aspect and play it as an action game instead.
1st Jul '15 10:53:20 PM Koveras
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* While not an aversion, the ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic II'' turned this trope into a plot point: [[spoiler:the Jedi masters see the Exile grow stronger in the Force by killing people, and claim this to be proof that the Exile has been turned into a walking wound in the Force.]]

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* While not an aversion, the ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic II'' ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublicIITheSithLords'' turned this trope into a plot point: [[spoiler:the Jedi masters see the Exile grow stronger in the Force by killing people, and claim this to be proof that the Exile has been turned into a walking wound in the Force.]]
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