History Main / NotBadassEnoughForFans

* ''Series/{{Merlin|2008}}'': On the surface, Guinevere is essentially portrayed as a ShrinkingViolet, a stark contrast to Morgana's spunky lady. Morgana gets to do lots of cool things: [[ActionGirl sword-fight]], telekinetically throw people through the air, and [[TyrantTakesTheHelm stand up to King Uther]]. However, this is a ''huge'' simplification of each woman's characterization and CharacterArc: namely that Morgana's [[SlowlySlippingIntoEvil fall into evil]] was marked by her ItsAllAboutMe attitude in which she ranks her own grievances and pain against the needs of others and begins a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against not just Uther, but ''everyone'', including innocent people. In contrast, Guinevere (who is also deeply wronged by Uther when he has her innocent father executed) rises above her inner turmoil and explicitly refuses to wallow in hate. Many fans seem to have ''completely'' missed the juxtapositioning of Guinevere's declaration that she would never seek vengeance against Uther because: "that would make me just like him" with the observations by ''several'' characters that Morgana is now no different from Uther. It also fails to take into account the fact that Guinevere's attempts at proactivity have a far higher success rate [[note]] (retrieving the morteus flower from the dungeon, arguing on behalf of the women in Ealdor for their right to defend their homes, discovering a vital clue that allows her and Merlin to outwit the Witchfinder, convincing the council to open the gates of Camelot and allow the refugees to seek shelter in the city, escaping Helios's men by submerging herself in the river)[[/note]]. Though Guinevere has played the DamselInDistress a few times, Morgana has been in similar situations just as often ([[DistressedDude as have all the male characters]]) and is extremely WeakWilled given the consistency [[HypnotizeTheCaptive with which she is placed under enchantments]]. Guinevere, on the other hand, has the ''unprecedented'' move of removing an object of enchantment from her body of her own free will (and thus breaking the spell she was under).\\\
The reactions to "[[Recap/MerlinS02E04LancelotAndGuinevere Lancelot and Guinevere]]" are a perfect example of this trope. Most of the complaints about the episode state it as Guinevere's biggest DamselInDistress moment, and that she needed three attempts by Morgana, Lancelot, and then Arthur and Merlin to rescue her due to her extreme incompetence. 1) It was Guinevere's YouShallNotPass moment that saved Morgana, not the other way around, 2) In Lancelot's rescue, we never see her get captured, so we don't know if she tripped or ran into a group of bandits, and 3) All of that would have been for nothing had Gwen not kept up a Morgana impression throughout the duration of her imprisonment, which kept her alive until help could come. Uther even mentions that it would take a small army to beat the number of bandits in the fortress she was held in, so unless you're expecting her to spontaneously turn into [[{{Series/Firefly}} River Tam]], there was no way she could have escaped without help.

* ''Film/TheForceAwakens'': Kylo Ren, the newest villain. The guy, as [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this picture]] says, can stop laser blasts in midair with seemingly no concentration, tank a shot from Chewbacca, chew out his generals freely, and many more. He's Darth Vader's second coming. However - partly ''because'' of that - he's also seen as not badass enough, as fans think his face below his mask looks "emo" as well as how he has [[spoiler:some daddy issues with Han Solo]]. And, unlike Luke, who couldn't really hold his own against Vader until much later, here Rey (who's about as much of a newbie as Luke back then) can fight Kylo Ren to a standstill. Fans are also divided on his temper tantrums- while some feel that it makes him new and different, others feel that it makes him look weak and pathetic compared to previous antagonists, all of whom were TheStoic, and many AffablyEvil as well.

* ''Film/TheForceAwakens'': Kylo Ren, the newest villain. The guy, as [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this picture]] says, can stop laser blasts in midair with seemingly no concentration, tank a shot from Chewbacca, chew out his generals freely, and many more. He's Darth Vader's second coming. However - partly ''because'' of that - he's also seen as not badass enough, as fans think his face below his mask looks "emo" as well as how he has [[spoiler:some daddy issues with Han Solo]]. And, unlike Luke, who couldn't really hold his own against Vader until much later, here Rey (who's about as much of a newbie as Luke back then) can fight Kylo Ren to a standstill. Fans are also divided on his temper tantrums-while some feel that it makes him new and different, others feel that it makes him look weak and pathetic compared to previous antagonists, all of whom were TheStoic, and many AffablyEvil as well.

* ''ComicBook/GreenArrow and his protégés also suffer from the same stigma of "just a guy with a bow and arrow" as his Marvel counterpart Hawkeye. It doesn't help that Oliver and Roy (the original Speedy) have been negatively compared to Batman and Nightwing, both in and out of universe. Oliver is not a skilled detective, ScienceHero, or tactician, and overall lacks Bruce's mystique and intimidating factor, instead being known as an insufferable, self-righteous jackass who often puts his foot in his mouth. Meanwhile, Roy is clearly not the natural and charismatic leader that Nightwing is, [[NeverLiveItDown and his history with drug addiction is often used against him by fans and writers.]]

** [[Characters/MarvelComicsCyclops Cyclops]] holds his own against Characters/{{Wolverine|JamesLoganHowlett}} in hand-to-hand combat, takes out the entire team when they're brainwashed and he's injured, beats up six men at once with his eyes shut, pulls off impossible trick shots, ''earns'' the nickname Fearless Leader... and a lot of ''ComicBook/XMen'' fans still think of him as a pussy, because he dares to not get along with Wolverine (which, when you think about it, is pretty badass in its own little way).

** "Nice Rivals" in general get this treatment from more hardcore critics of the game series. Contrast to early rivals like Blue or Silver who were insufferable to the player but still put up a challenge, rivals who are friendly to you from the start or don't hold grudges are generally seen as weak, especially if their team isn't constructed as well as a player's and they have a life-defining goal that the player can easily resolve for them. Later gen rivals, such as [[VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon Hau]], [[VideoGame/PokemonSwordAndShield Hop]], will often be the subject of this.

* ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'': From the ''VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite'' fandom are people who view [[spoiler: N Harmonia]] as "weak and stupid" because he doesn't go around doing a ton of evil stuff like the other main-series antagonists before him did (this despite the fact that he ''does'' use a Legendary Pokemon far more effectively than the others, and he still controls the story to a greater extent than any villain before him except [[VideoGame/PokemonDiamondAndPearl Cyrus]]).

** Korra has gotten heat, bashing, shaming and false FauxActionGirl accusations for daring to angst and cry when she feels [[AlwaysSomeoneBetter she can't live up to]] [[WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender Avatar Aang's]] [[TheAce awesome legacy]], and especially for crying [[spoiler: and maybe even ''considering suicide'' to allow for a better Avatar to be reborn ([[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation according to some]])]] when [[spoiler: Katara couldn't restore her bending]] in the first season's GrandFinale. Among the more understandable criticism of how this was dealt with in-story, loud screams of "sexism" and "misogyny" were heard from "fandom feminists" everywhere. When the final season came, one of the loudest complaints amongst the fandom was that Korra spent was was felt like ''way'' too much time dealing with the PTSD and mercury poisoning after-effects that the previous season's finale had left behind (and that it was established that there was a TimeSkip of several years in between seasons ''did not'' helped) and these effects made her a truly teeth-grinding example of the FailureHero.
** Fandom only started to lighten up in the Asami hate when she showed herself as an ActionGirl BadassNormal. And yet the moment she showed ''human'' reactions to the LoveTriangle business, some people were and still are quick to accuse her of being "nothing but Mako's ClingyJealousGirl" (despite how she mostly ''{{defie|dTrope}}s'' the CJG trope.)

* ''ComicBook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'': ComicBook/GreenArrow and his protégés also suffer from the same stigma of "just a guy with a bow and arrow" as his Marvel counterpart Hawkeye. It doesn't help that Oliver and Roy (the original Speedy) have been negatively compared to Batman and Nightwing both in and out of universe. Oliver is not a skilled detective, ScienceHero, or tactician, and overall lacks Bruce's mystique and intimidating factor instead being known as an insufferable, self-righteous jackass who often puts his foot in his mouth. Meanwhile, Roy is clearly not the natural and charismatic leader that Nightwing is, [[NeverLiveItDown and his history with drug addiction is often used against him by fans and writers.]]

* Rebecca Chambers from the 1996 original ''VideoGame/ResidentEvil1'' quickly became TheScrappy for her annoyingly chirpy demeanor and need to be rescued by Chris in most of his story paths, even though she can also end up having to save ''him'' depending on the choices the player makes --possibly twice!-- and the optional segments where she is playable show her to be as combat-capable as Jill (albeit with only a pistol and no spare ammo). This ''only'' applies to the original game, though; Rebecca became RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap after the 2002 remake changed her characterization to better reflect the fear and emotional stress she's been suffering since her ordeal began, which does a far better job of tapping the player's protective instincts toward her, but she still never undergoes {{Xenafication}}, even though ''ResidentEvil0'' promotes her to a main character and gives her plenty of opportunities to kick zombie ass. In fact, Rebecca canonically retires from fighting after the mansion incident to devote herself full-time to being a ScienceHero, studying bioweapons and developing countermeasures for them.

* Nite Owl II of ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'' definitely qualifies for this. Since he decided he didn't want to be involved in a futile battle of good against evil for the rest of his life and retired, he's clearly the "worst" of the main characters. Even Rorschach held this view for a period of time. And considering his popularity with readers, his view of Nite Owl II probably contributed to the way a lot of fans saw him. Rather ironic considering how Moore intended the ''[[MisaimedFandom exact opposite]]'' effect. Parodied in ''WebVideo/ImAMarvelAndImADC'', where Dan and Cyclops discuss this trope.

* ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} of ComicBook/TheAvengers: Despite being one of the most popular of the group and one of the most badass heroes in the Marvel Universe, he's often seen, in-universe and out, by some as being 'the weakest' of Avengers, since while his teammates include [[ComicBook/TheMightyThor Thor]], [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk Hulk]], and ComicBook/IronMan (who also is a normal most of the time, just with PoweredArmor), he's 'just a guy with a bow and arrow'. The fact that he can ''keep up with'' these guys without faltering is sadly lost on some people.
* The Bat Family, Batman's partners, Robins, sidekicks, and mentees are all hit with this trope. While Batman has the same stigma, he's still seen as an incredible badass. So, his sidekicks, who unfortunately are limited in how many levels they can rise to or risk overshadowing him, tend to appear this (Dick Grayson was the poster child of DistressedDude during UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|OfComicBooks}}). With the exception of [[ComicBook/BatGirl2000 Cassandra Cain]], they're occasionally hit with this by someone, the worst being Stephanie Brown. While each member has at least one skill they excel at (Dick's leadership and acrobatics, Tim's detective skills, Babs' intelligence, Jason's homicidal violence, etc) Steph is a realistic portrayal of a Badass Normal: She's got an average intellect and reasonable training and skills in fighting and athletics, she lacks PhotographicMemory and TrainingFromHell the others possess. So, while she is as badass, if not more so, than many real-life people or action heroes, she's limited in what she could reasonably achieve. To this day there's many a HateDumb that will decry her as 'weak', 'pathetic', 'stupid', and call her 'incompetent' for not having {{Charles Atlas Superpower}}s and being ThePollyanna.
* In the ''ComicBook/TeenTitans'' fandom, though some of the "weaker" characters will have their fans, they are generally hated for not being as badass as the major members of the team. A few examples come from this:
** Aqualad/Tempest took heat from some fans ''and'' DC editorial for having "lame" powers (similar opinions exist about his mentor, ComicBook/{{Aquaman}}), and for coming off weaker, less "manly", and less proactive than the other male Titans. Even after he got an upgrade in power, his role gradually diminished and he was killed off. Phil Jimenez (who wrote the Tempest mini-series) has stated that the current editorial team wasn't too fond of the character.
** Flamebird, for being ditzy and more obsessed with Robin at first than actually fighting seriously. Even after her character development, her hatedom still considers her "too useless", "girly", "stupid", and a waste of space that could be given to tougher characters.
** Jericho, for being too sensitive, a "wuss", not being much of an action guy, and having a flamboyant costume and weird hair in his early days. The showrunners of [[WesternAnimation/TeenTitans2003 the animated series]] had stated they felt the need to try to make him look more badass, as they considered him to be pathetic in the comics.
* ComicBook/GreenArrow and his protégés also suffer from the same stigma of "just a guy with a bow and arrow" as his Marvel counterpart Hawkeye. It doesn't help that Oliver and Roy (the original Speedy) have been negatively compared to Batman and Nightwing both in and out of universe. Oliver is not a skilled detective, ScienceHero or tactician, and overall lacks Bruce's mystique and intimidating factor instead being known as an insufferable, self-righteous jackass who often puts his foot in his mouth. Meanwhile, Roy is clearly not the natural and charismatic leader that Nightwing is, [[NeverLiveItDown and his history with drug addiction is often used against him by fans and writers.]]

* "Fabian strategy" is a term for a military strategy in which battle is avoided in favor of wearing down the enemy by misdirection, denying them resupply, and other generally non-violent tactics. It was named for the Roman commander [[UsefulNotes/PunicWars Fabius Maximus]], who knew that fighting [[MagnificentBastard Hannibal]] head-on was a losing proposition. He also knew that Hannibal was operating in enemy territory, making resupply difficult, and had virtually no ability to besiege Rome itself. Fabius therefore simply did not march out to fight. As time went on this seemed more and more cowardly to the Romans, who eventually removed Fabius and installed someone more aggressive as commander. Hannibal then ''crushed'' the Roman army at the Battle of Cannae, one of the worst defeats in military history. The Romans wised up and went back to denying Hannibal battle, and he achieved few other significant victories over them. The Fabian strategy has been utilized at other periods in history, such as UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution and the Russian defense against {{UsefulNotes/Napoleon|Bonaparte}}. Despite the proven success of the strategy in certain situations, commanders who implement it are often seen as weak and cowardly. To add to the irony Fabius still had to be incredibly violent, just not towards Hannibal's standing army. Hannibal was actually able to recruit large numbers of allies among the tribes and city-states of Italy, who, after all, were hardly thrilled about Roman domination. Fabius' strategy was to deny Hannibal supplies and reinforcements from these allies by directing his troops to a place after Hannibal had left and massacred the town or towns that had helped him.

* UsefulNotes/JimmyCarter has frequently faced ridicule for being "soft" or "wimpy", despite having served as the crewmember of a submarine in the early years of the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. He has been one of the few modern US presidents -- along with UsefulNotes/GeraldFord and UsefulNotes/DonaldTrump -- who didn't lead the country into or escalated any major armed conflicts (although that may be due to the backlash against UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar).
* Towards the end of UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, Germany had to surrender due to economic asphyxiation and food shortages -- with the latter being the result of the Allied blockade. This defeat was rendered even more humiliating by the fact Germany didn't lose any territory during the span of the war. Years later, the Nazis exploited the germans' bitterness about this to gain political power and the population's support.
* The Russian Army in World War I is often seen as being weak and nothing but a German Punching Bag for the Russian factories being incapable of producing enough arms and ammunition to equip the Czar's 1.4 million-man army. Apparently, the roughly 6 ''million'' casualties the Russian Army took down with it died laughing at its weakness.

* ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'': The Tau and the Craftworld Eldar get a lot of stick from the fandom for not being as [[RatedMForManly overtly manly]] as the other factions, although they are no less awesome. It should tell you something that the biggest factions in terms of sales are the Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard, and Orks. In words, all armies where everyone is bulging with muscle and has "run at the enemy shouting and brandishing an oversized and rusty melee weapon" as their main battle strategy. The Dark Eldar ever so occasionally get this treatment as well, although they avoid the worst of it by being WickedCultured and [[TheUnfavourite having only about twenty people in the world play as them]].

** The 2003 anime's version of the Homunculus Wrath, while he was popular back in the anime's early days, has become a BaseBreakingCharacter in the years since due to his highly emotional personality, with many arguing that he's "too whiny" and thus "too weak" to like. This is disregarding the fact that he is a roughly eight to eleven year old child who spent his formative years in an AndIMustScream hell that has given him a legitimate case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and left him desperately craving maternal affection, not to mention the fact that he's more than capable of holding his own in a fight, which gets conveniently ignored by fans who decry him as "just a crybaby mommma's boy".

** The 2003 anime's version of the Homunculus Wrath, while he was popular back in the anime's early days, has become a BaseBreakingCharacter in the years since due to his highly emotional personality, with many arguing that he's "too whiny" and thus "too weak" to like. This is disregarding the fact that he is a roughly eight to eleven year old child who spent his formative years in an AndIMustScream hell that has given him a legitimate case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and left him desperately craving maternal affection.

* ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist'': Alphonse Elric gets hit pretty hard with this in [[Anime/FullmetalAlchemist2003 the 2003 anime version]]. He's not weak but he's much more reluctant to fight than his brother and has a much quieter personality in general. He's still a main player whose actions have a direct effect on plot development, but more than a few fans dislike him for not being proactive or badass enough.

!This trope is [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16859154570.26683100 under discussion]] in the Administrivia/TropeRepairShop.