History Main / NoEndorHolocaust

21st Sep '17 11:23:11 AM Rytex
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* The trope comes from ''Franchise/StarWars'' and is named after a [[http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html theory]] that argues the destruction of the second Death Star in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'' turned the Ewoks' homeworld, the Forest Moon of Endor, into a smoking wasteland. The [[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endor_Holocaust Wookieepedia article]] explains that [[WordOfGod canonically]], the Endor Holocaust did not happen, [[DiscontinuityNod only existing as Imperial propaganda]]. Later material would HandWave it by explaining that the Death Star's destruction created a wormhole (long story; just know the Death Star was intended for faster-than-light capabilities) that sucked most of the debris (including Literature/TheGloveOfDarthVader) into parts unknown, with any dangerous leftovers being caught in Rebel tractor beams. Furthermore, there has been a rebuttal to the original theory that argues the original theory overestimated the size of the Death Star by a substantial amount. Lastly, the film's camera angles imply Endor is ''massive'', bigger than your average Earth-like planet, so much so that even if the Holocaust did happen it would only decimate a portion of the surface.
** Finally, and most bluntly, the Rebels and Ewoks would ''not'' have been able to throw that [[DancePartyEnding epic party]] on the surface, which is shown to take place at nightfall. If the hypothetical holocaust were to happen, it would have caused problems by then.

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* ''Franchise/StarWars'':
**
The trope comes from ''Franchise/StarWars'' and is named after a [[http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html theory]] that argues the destruction of the second Death Star in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'' turned the Ewoks' homeworld, the Forest Moon of Endor, into a smoking wasteland. The [[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endor_Holocaust Wookieepedia article]] explains that [[WordOfGod canonically]], the Endor Holocaust did not happen, [[DiscontinuityNod only existing as Imperial propaganda]]. Later material would HandWave it by explaining that the Death Star's destruction created a wormhole (long story; just know the Death Star was intended for faster-than-light capabilities) that sucked most of the debris (including Literature/TheGloveOfDarthVader) into parts unknown, with any dangerous leftovers being caught in Rebel tractor beams. Furthermore, there has been a rebuttal to the original theory that argues the original theory overestimated the size of the Death Star by a substantial amount. Lastly, the film's camera angles imply Endor is ''massive'', bigger than your average Earth-like planet, so much so that even if the Holocaust did happen it would only decimate a portion of the surface.
** *** Finally, and most bluntly, the Rebels and Ewoks would ''not'' have been able to throw that [[DancePartyEnding epic party]] on the surface, which is shown to take place at nightfall. If the hypothetical holocaust were to happen, it would have caused problems by then.then.
** In ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' features a sequence where Obi-Wan and Anakin try to pilot General Grievous' flagship, ''Invisible Hand'' to the ground on Coruscant after the engines suffer irreparable damage. On their way down, the ship splits in two, with the back half flying off behind them, undeniably hitting a section of the planet out of sight. Other random debris flies off on screen, but never once is an impact shown, nor are their aftereffects discussed.
17th Sep '17 11:44:11 AM nombretomado
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* Notably [[NotASubversion Averted]] in ''VideoGame/CityOfHeroes''. The Rikti invasion included an enormous mother ship that hovered over Paragon City. When it was eventually defeated by a huge gathering of heroes (many of which died in the battle), the ship crashed into a section of the city now known as the "Rikti Crash Site," which is walled off from the rest of the town and considered extremely dangerous for all but the most powerful and experienced heroes. It's also a quite sizable game map of what one would expect a cityscape to look like after a gigantic alien battleship fell on it.

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* Notably [[NotASubversion [[Administrivia/NotASubversion Averted]] in ''VideoGame/CityOfHeroes''. The Rikti invasion included an enormous mother ship that hovered over Paragon City. When it was eventually defeated by a huge gathering of heroes (many of which died in the battle), the ship crashed into a section of the city now known as the "Rikti Crash Site," which is walled off from the rest of the town and considered extremely dangerous for all but the most powerful and experienced heroes. It's also a quite sizable game map of what one would expect a cityscape to look like after a gigantic alien battleship fell on it.
26th Aug '17 2:13:31 PM dmcreif
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*** ''Series/IronFist2017''

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*** ''Series/IronFist2017'' reveals that Bakuto has inducted a number of youth orphaned in the Incident and made them Hand soldiers.
24th Aug '17 12:47:49 PM CalaverX11
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** This is taken further in ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime'': not only does Primus' body make up Cybertron, but [[spoiler:Earth is actually a dormant Unicron. When Unicron begins to wake up, it causes massive worldwide environmental havoc. Not only that, but he can also [[GeniusLoci control the surface of the Earth]], making "mini" clones of himself out of mountainsides.]] The Autobots [[EnemyMine and Megatron]] team up to shut him back down before he actually destroys the planet and to prevent this trope. However, it's ultimately played straight, as despite the environmental damage, there are no reports of lives lost during [[spoiler:Unicron's]] "morning stretch".
11th Aug '17 8:57:08 PM dmcreif
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** Much of ''Film/IronMan3'' and ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'' is dedicated to showing the aftermath of "The Battle of New York," and what kind of effects of the death toll and the knowledge there are other lifeforms in the universe has on the world.
** ''Series/{{Daredevil 2015}}'' shows that the Chitauri invasion caused significant damage to Hell's Kitchen. Subsequently, [[Creator/VincentDOnofrio Wilson Fisk]] is able to gain a stronghold in the neighborhood. His construction company Union Allied is able to secure numerous reconstruction contracts. In the first episode of the show, [[Creator/BobGunton Leland Owlsley]] says "[[OpportunisticBastard Heroes and their consequences are why we have our current opportunities]]" referring to the damage caused by the battle. In the same episode, Matt Murdock remarks to Karen Page that "the world watched half of New York get destroyed", though this appears to be hyperbole since the Chitauri appeared to confine the battle to Midtown Manhattan and didn't go into any of the other boroughs or Jersey City. It's also mentioned that the battle also caused real-estate values to drop dramatically, allowing Matt and Foggy to find space to start their law firm.
** ''Series/{{Jessica Jones|2015}}'' showed there's a lot of fear and hate towards "gifted" people over this. One woman tries to kill Jessica in revenge over her mother dying as a result of the Chitauri invasion, even though she wasn't involved.
** Averted in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', where the various battles in the movie devastates several cities, with most of the Avengers' time being spent trying to minimize civilian causalities. The widespread destruction caused by the film will lead also directly to the worldwide SuperheroRegistrationAct of ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar''. The villain Ultron's EvilPlan also averts this trope directly as [[spoiler: he plans to levitate a several mile wide chunk of the Earth's surface into the upper atmosphere, then accelerate it back onto the Earth, causing an extinction level event similar to the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs. One of the reasons he chooses this method is because it's a XanatosGambit; Ultron lampshades this trope, and points out dropping the city early (the heroes hope to destroy the repulsors lifting the city before it can gain any real altitude, and drop it into a lake below) ''should'' still do serious damage. Thus it's left an exercise to the viewer why that didn't happen]]. Furthering the aversion is the Sokovia Accords being created in direct response to the damage they did, with the implication that not only were there casualties and property damage costs shown for the final battles of the ''Avengers'' films and ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'', [[spoiler: but part of the main villain's motivation is that his family was killed during the battle of Sokovia and he holds the Avengers responsible for what happened, trying to tear their team apart from the inside]].

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** Much of ''Film/IronMan3'' and ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'' is dedicated
**The Netflix shows leading into ''Series/TheDefenders2017'' have
to showing deal with the aftermath topic of "The Battle of how the invasion affects New York," and what kind of effects of the death toll and the knowledge there are other lifeforms in the universe has on the world.
** ''Series/{{Daredevil
York City life:
***''Series/{{Daredevil
2015}}'' shows that the Chitauri invasion caused significant damage to Hell's Kitchen. Subsequently, [[Creator/VincentDOnofrio sees [[ComicBook/TheKingpin Wilson Fisk]] is able to gain a stronghold in the neighborhood. Hell's Kitchen by skimming on reconstruction contracts. His construction company Union Allied is able to secure numerous reconstruction contracts. In the first episode of the show, contracts, at least until [[Creator/DeborahAnnWoll Karen Page]] exposes their numbers games. At one point, [[Creator/BobGunton Leland Owlsley]] says "[[OpportunisticBastard Heroes and their consequences are why we have our current opportunities]]" referring to the damage caused by the battle. In the same episode, Elsewhere, Matt Murdock remarks says to Karen Page that "the world watched half of New York get destroyed", though this appears to be hyperbole since the Chitauri appeared to confine the battle to Midtown Manhattan and didn't go into any of the other boroughs or Jersey City. It's also mentioned that the battle also caused real-estate values in Hell's Kitchen to drop dramatically, allowing and this is the reason Matt and Foggy to find can afford the office space to start their law firm.
** ''Series/{{Jessica
in which they set up Nelson & Murdock. One of the framed ''Bulletin'' front pages on the wall in Ben Urich's office (which later becomes Karen's office after she gets hired by Ellison towards the end of season 2) is about the invasion and says hundreds were killed.
***''Series/{{Jessica
Jones|2015}}'' showed there's a lot of fear and hate towards "gifted" people over this. One woman tries to kill Jessica in revenge over her mother dying as a result of the Chitauri invasion, even though she wasn't involved.involved.
***''Series/LukeCage2016'' shows that alien metal has been salvaged by Hammer Industries and transformed into something Diamondback calls the Judas bullet.
***''Series/IronFist2017''
** Much of ''Film/IronMan3'' and ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD'' is dedicated to showing the aftermath of "The Battle of New York," and what kind of effects of the death toll and the knowledge there are other lifeforms in the universe has on the world.

** Averted in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'', where the various battles in the movie devastates several cities, with most of the Avengers' time being spent trying to minimize civilian causalities. The widespread destruction caused by the film will lead also directly to the worldwide SuperheroRegistrationAct of ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar''. The villain Ultron's EvilPlan also averts this trope directly as [[spoiler: he plans to levitate a several mile wide chunk of the Earth's surface into the upper atmosphere, then accelerate it back onto the Earth, causing an extinction level event similar to the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs. One of the reasons he chooses this method is because it's a XanatosGambit; Ultron lampshades this trope, and points out dropping the city early (the heroes hope to destroy the repulsors lifting the city before it can gain any real altitude, and drop it into a lake below) ''should'' still do serious damage. Thus it's left an exercise to the viewer why that didn't happen]]. Furthering the aversion is the Sokovia Accords being created in direct response to the damage they did, with the implication that not only were there casualties and property damage costs shown for the final battles of the ''Avengers'' films and ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'', [[spoiler: but part of the main villain's motivation is that his family was killed during the battle of Sokovia and he holds the Avengers responsible for what happened, trying to tear their team apart from the inside]].
11th Aug '17 6:17:34 PM NineballCirno
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** In [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E5ThePoisonSky "The Poison Sky"]], the Doctor sets the ''entire atmosphere'' of earth ablaze to eliminate all the poisonous gas the Sontarans have released, and nothing even gets SINGED. Plus, there's plenty of oxygen left afterwards, and no excess CO2.

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** In [[Recap/DoctorWhoS30E5ThePoisonSky "The Poison Sky"]], the Doctor sets the ''entire atmosphere'' of earth ablaze to eliminate all the poisonous gas the Sontarans have released, and nothing even gets SINGED. Plus, there's plenty of oxygen left afterwards, and no excess CO2.[=CO=][[subscript:2]].
9th Aug '17 1:37:00 PM Rytex
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* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' features a couple instances. The Tower of Zot, a huge flying structure that falls apart moments after you leave it, never crashes anywhere. The Tower of Babil is perfectly fine (and is totally structurally intact, according to the sequels) after the Giant of Babil seemingly walks out of it. Similarly, in the sequels, there are almost no changes to the world map (not even changes to local climates, tides, or sea lanes) after one of the planet's moons flies off into deep space, never to return.
* Certain developments in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'' lead many players to assume that the planets on which the ''other'' ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' games take place were blown up as "failed experiments" by {{God}}, [[spoiler:who is actually a SufficientlyAdvancedAlien EvilutionaryBiologist]]. WordOfGod assures us this did not happen.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', the Lunar Cry causes monsters to rain down from the Moon. The last time this happened, it destroyed the [[{{Precursors}} Centra civilization]] and reduced most of a continent to a crater (plainly visible on the World Map). When it happens in the game, it even tints Esthar's sky red and infests the country-sized city with incredibly strong monsters. It is implied that despite the damage of the monster assault, the Estharian military is able to contain the situation because they were prepared for it. So it makes sense they had plans for next lunar cry.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX'', when you first fight [[EldritchAbomination Sin]], you're treated to a couple cutscenes showing you ''exactly'' what you're about to fight. The attack shown is strong enough to pull the moon, and absolutely tear up the geography, leaving behind a series of tunnels and canyons filled with fire and rubble. After you beat Sin, you can go and visit the rest of Spira, and at no point did you see any collateral damage. Considering what happened at [[CurbStompBattle Djose]], you'd think that thousands of people had died in those blasts. Nope. All the places are intact, and no one mentions dying in the attacks.
** Invoked in the Calm Lands, where battles are staged specifically to avoid collateral damage.
** It is mentioned in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX2'' that Sin fell on Bevelle during the final battle and did cause some damage to the lower districts, all of which seems to have been repaired in the two years between the two games.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'', the ending has [[spoiler:Cocoon falling towards Pulse, only to be saved by Ragnarok forming a giant crystal pillar to stop the fall. Logically, a very large portion of Cocoon's population should be dead (if nothing else, because the fal'Cie providing artificial gravity to the inside of the HollowWorld were gone, to the detriment of the people on the upper half of the inner surface who are now subjected to the ''planet'''s gravity,) but the ending implies that there was No Endor Holocaust]].
** Actually, it's mentioned in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'' that a lot of people '''were''', in fact, killed. One sidequest in the game has you picking winter flowers for man to give to his young niece, [[spoiler: who died in the fall]].

to:

* ''Franchise/FinalFantasy''
** In
''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' features a couple instances. The Tower of Zot, a huge flying structure that falls apart moments after you leave it, never crashes anywhere. The Tower of Babil is perfectly fine (and is totally structurally intact, according to the sequels) after the Giant of Babil seemingly walks out of it. Similarly, in the sequels, there are almost no changes to the world map (not even changes to local climates, tides, or sea lanes) after one of the planet's moons flies off into deep space, never to return.
* *** Certain developments in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'' lead many players to assume that the planets on which the ''other'' ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' games take place were blown up as "failed experiments" by {{God}}, [[spoiler:who is actually a SufficientlyAdvancedAlien EvilutionaryBiologist]]. WordOfGod assures us this did not happen.
* ** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', the Lunar Cry causes monsters to rain down from the Moon. The last time this happened, it destroyed the [[{{Precursors}} Centra civilization]] and reduced most of a continent to a crater (plainly visible on the World Map). When it happens in the game, it even tints Esthar's sky red and infests the country-sized city with incredibly strong monsters. It is implied that despite the damage of the monster assault, the Estharian military is able to contain the situation because they were prepared for it. So it makes sense they had plans for next lunar cry.
* ** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX'', when you first fight [[EldritchAbomination Sin]], you're treated to a couple cutscenes showing you ''exactly'' what you're about to fight. The attack shown is strong enough to pull the moon, and absolutely tear up the geography, leaving behind a series of tunnels and canyons filled with fire and rubble. After you beat Sin, you can go and visit the rest of Spira, and at no point did you see any collateral damage. Considering what happened at [[CurbStompBattle Djose]], you'd think that thousands of people had died in those blasts. Nope. All the places are intact, and no one mentions dying in the attacks.
** *** Invoked in the Calm Lands, where battles are staged specifically to avoid collateral damage.
** *** It is mentioned in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX2'' that Sin fell on Bevelle during the final battle and did cause some damage to the lower districts, all of which seems to have been repaired in the two years between the two games.
* ** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'', the ending has [[spoiler:Cocoon falling towards Pulse, only to be saved by Ragnarok forming a giant crystal pillar to stop the fall. Logically, a very large portion of Cocoon's population should be dead (if nothing else, because the fal'Cie providing artificial gravity to the inside of the HollowWorld were gone, to the detriment of the people on the upper half of the inner surface who are now subjected to the ''planet'''s gravity,) but the ending implies that there was No Endor Holocaust]].
** *** Actually, it's mentioned in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'' that a lot of people '''were''', in fact, killed. One sidequest in the game has you picking winter flowers for man to give to his young niece, [[spoiler: who died in the fall]].
9th Aug '17 1:35:21 PM Rytex
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* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'', Barbaraccia, [[BlowYouAway the Archfiend of Wind]], keeps the Tower of Zot aloft in the sky with her abilities, and when she is killed, [[LoadBearingBoss the tower is destroyed]]. We never see the remains of the tower crash, and no one even comments on it. The general consensus is that the tower landed in the sea far enough away from civilization to not cause any casualties.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', the Lunar Cry causes monsters to rain down from the Moon. The last time this happened, it destroyed the [[{{Precursors}} Centra civilization]] and reduced most of a continent to a crater (plainly visible on the World Map). When it happens in the game, it even tints Esthar's sky red and infests the country-sized city with incredibly strong monsters. It is implied that despite the damage of the monster assault, the Estharian military is able to contain the situation because they were prepared for it. So it makes sense they had plans for next lunar cry.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'', the ending has [[spoiler:Cocoon falling towards Pulse, only to be saved by Ragnarok forming a giant crystal pillar to stop the fall. Logically, a very large portion of Cocoon's population should be dead (if nothing else, because the fal'Cie providing artificial gravity to the inside of the HollowWorld were gone, to the detriment of the people on the upper half of the inner surface who are now subjected to the ''planet'''s gravity,) but the ending implies that there was No Endor Holocaust]].
** Actually, it's mentioned in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'' that a lot of people '''were''', in fact, killed. One sidequest in the game has you picking winter flowers for man to give to his young niece, [[spoiler: who died in the fall]].



* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' features a couple instances. The Tower of Zot, a huge flying structure that falls apart moments after you leave it, never crashes anywhere. The Tower of Babil is perfectly fine (and is totally structurally intact, according to the sequels) after the Giant of Babil seemingly walks out of it. Similarly, in the sequels, there are almost no changes to the world map (not even changes to local climates, tides, or sea lanes) after one of the planet's moons flies off into deep space, never to return.
* Certain developments in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'' lead many players to assume that the planets on which the ''other'' ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' games take place were blown up as "failed experiments" by {{God}}, [[spoiler:who is actually a SufficientlyAdvancedAlien EvilutionaryBiologist]]. WordOfGod assures us this did not happen.
* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'', the Lunar Cry causes monsters to rain down from the Moon. The last time this happened, it destroyed the [[{{Precursors}} Centra civilization]] and reduced most of a continent to a crater (plainly visible on the World Map). When it happens in the game, it even tints Esthar's sky red and infests the country-sized city with incredibly strong monsters. It is implied that despite the damage of the monster assault, the Estharian military is able to contain the situation because they were prepared for it. So it makes sense they had plans for next lunar cry.



* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII'', the ending has [[spoiler:Cocoon falling towards Pulse, only to be saved by Ragnarok forming a giant crystal pillar to stop the fall. Logically, a very large portion of Cocoon's population should be dead (if nothing else, because the fal'Cie providing artificial gravity to the inside of the HollowWorld were gone, to the detriment of the people on the upper half of the inner surface who are now subjected to the ''planet'''s gravity,) but the ending implies that there was No Endor Holocaust]].
** Actually, it's mentioned in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'' that a lot of people '''were''', in fact, killed. One sidequest in the game has you picking winter flowers for man to give to his young niece, [[spoiler: who died in the fall]].



* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'' features a couple instances. The Tower of Zot, a huge flying structure that falls apart moments after you leave it, never crashes anywhere. The Tower of Babil is perfectly fine (and is totally structurally intact, according to the sequels) after the Giant of Babil seemingly walks out of it. Similarly, in the sequels, there are almost no changes to the world map (not even changes to local climates, tides, or sea lanes) after one of the planet's moons flies off into deep space, never to return.
* Certain developments in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'' lead many players to assume that the planets on which the ''other'' ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' games take place were blown up as "failed experiments" by {{God}}, [[spoiler:who is actually a SufficientlyAdvancedAlien EvilutionaryBiologist]]. WordOfGod assures us this did not happen.
9th Aug '17 1:11:37 PM Rytex
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIV'', Barbaraccia, [[BlowYouAway the Archfiend of Wind]], keeps the Tower of Zot aloft in the sky with her abilities, and when she is killed, [[LoadBearingBoss the tower is destroyed]]. We never see the remains of the tower crash, and no one even comments on it. The general consensus is that the tower landed in the sea far enough away from civilization to not cause any casualties.
7th Aug '17 7:54:14 AM catmuto
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Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2'' has Yamato plan to shoot the airborne Alioth down, meaning it would land in Sapporo. Several of the party members are concerned about this trope and ask if that isn't going to endanger anyone still living there, wanting to evacuate first. Yamato soothes any worries by claiming that it won't be a problem[[spoiler:, since Sapporo is already devoid of human life]]. A later scene does avert this[[spoiler:, with Makoto mentioning to Yamato that she had heard that there were still survivors. Yamato sees no problem with that. [[HalfTruth Any person who wasn't crushed by Alioth would be dying due to the Septentrione's toxin in the area, anyway]]]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.NoEndorHolocaust