History Main / NewerThanTheyThink

16th Sep '17 3:52:24 PM nombretomado
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*** In some regions of Europe historians continued to use AUC or other Roman chronologies [[note]]For example, the "Spanish Era" in the Iberian Peninsula, which began in 38 BC when the region was declared pacified by Augustus[[/note]] well into the 14th and even 15th centuries. It's ironic that this practice died precisely during TheRenaissance.

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*** In some regions of Europe historians continued to use AUC or other Roman chronologies [[note]]For example, the "Spanish Era" in the Iberian Peninsula, which began in 38 BC when the region was declared pacified by Augustus[[/note]] well into the 14th and even 15th centuries. It's ironic that this practice died precisely during TheRenaissance.UsefulNotes/TheRenaissance.
16th Sep '17 2:20:24 AM lillolillo
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* Though he's the one member of the X-Men that ''everyone'' knows, {{Wolverine}} didn't appear in the series until 1975, a little over a decade after it began.
* Though he's almost universally considered a "classic" SpiderMan villain, Comicbook/{{Venom}} didn't appear until 1988, when SpiderMan had already been running for over two decades.

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* Though he's the one member of the X-Men Franchise/XMen that ''everyone'' knows, {{Wolverine}} ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} didn't appear in the series until 1975, a little over a decade after it began.
* Though he's almost universally considered a "classic" SpiderMan Franchise/SpiderMan villain, Comicbook/{{Venom}} didn't appear until 1988, when SpiderMan Spider-Man had already been running for over two decades.decades. And contrary to what many fans believe, the Venom Symbiote was actually rather passive and nonaggressive when Spidey first donned it in ''ComicBook/SecretWars'', and Peter only got rid of it once he realized it was a living organism that had a habit of taking his body crimefighting while he was asleep. It wasn't until the 1994 cartoon series that the Venom Symbiote gained the "slowly turn Peter into an aggressive asshole" status it's now famous for. This aspect of it became RetCanon, though, [[ContinuitySnarl with a variety of in-universe explanations]] given for it from its hosts having negatively affected it, to the symbiote having always been like that.



* Contrary to what many fans believe, [[SpiderMan the Venom Symbiote]] was actually rather passive and nonaggressive when Spidey first donned it in ''ComicBook/SecretWars'', and Peter only got rid of it once he realized it was a living organism that had a habit of taking his body crimefighting while he was asleep. It wasn't until the 1994 cartoon series that the Venom Symbiote gained the "slowly turn Peter into an aggressive asshole" status it's now famous for. This aspect of it became RetCanon, though, [[ContinuitySnarl with a variety of in-universe explanations]] given for it from its hosts having negatively affected it, to the symbiote having always been like that.



* Looking at the depiction of Batman in the comics over the past three-quarters of a century, you could say that not only is the [[DarkerAndEdgier "dark"]] Batman a rather recent phenomenon, but its existence has been practically evanescent. The much-derided camp survived in the comics long past the 1960s: while Batman himself grew steadily darker, he served as TheComicallySerious to Robin (who didn't stop wearing the cheesy green bikini bottoms until 1989) and most of the villains. Even after the Creator/FrankMiller era and all the way through the Creator/TimBurton era the stories alternated between grimness and camp, [[MoodWhiplash sometimes jarringly so]]. Not until the bleak ''{{Knightfall}}'' storyline of the 1990s did ''Batman'' make the complete and semi-permanent shift to "dark"; soon afterward, his costume became entirely black and some artists began to draw him as almost literally a vampire. And no sooner had ''that'' happened than the earlier, lighter camp was merely replaced by [[BlackComedy a darker, more ironic camp]] that didn't distract from the overall tone as much. Add to all that the realization that even the noirish ''Batman'' of the 1940s introduced some zany elements within the first year or so, and it can be said that there has never been a time when Batman was ''not'' campy! In this respect, the Nolan films strike one more as revisionist history than [[UnbuiltTrope "what Batman has always been supposed to be."]]

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* Looking at the depiction of Batman in the comics over the past three-quarters of a century, you could say that not only is the [[DarkerAndEdgier "dark"]] Batman a rather recent phenomenon, but its existence has been practically evanescent. The much-derided camp survived in the comics long past the 1960s: while Batman himself grew steadily darker, he served as TheComicallySerious to Robin (who didn't stop wearing the cheesy green bikini bottoms until 1989) and most of the villains. Even after the Creator/FrankMiller era and all the way through the Creator/TimBurton era the stories alternated between grimness and camp, [[MoodWhiplash sometimes jarringly so]]. Not until the bleak ''{{Knightfall}}'' ''ComicBook/{{Knightfall}}'' storyline of the 1990s did ''Batman'' make the complete and semi-permanent shift to "dark"; soon afterward, his costume became entirely black and some artists began to draw him as almost literally a vampire. And no sooner had ''that'' happened than the earlier, lighter camp was merely replaced by [[BlackComedy a darker, more ironic camp]] that didn't distract from the overall tone as much. Add to all that the realization that even the noirish ''Batman'' of the 1940s introduced some zany elements within the first year or so, and it can be said that there has never been a time when Batman was ''not'' campy! In this respect, the Nolan films strike one more as revisionist history than [[UnbuiltTrope "what Batman has always been supposed to be."]]



* Smallville being [[{{Superman}} Clark Kent's]] hometown is not itself an example of this trope having been established since 1949... but its location being in Kansas was only confirmed as canon in ''1986''. Previously the comics located it anywhere from the Midwest to the East Coast (several stories from UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}} have it as relatively near the ocean.)
* {{ComicBook/Darkseid}}, upon his first appearance in 1970, was strictly a ''ComicBook/NewGods'' character, and generally kept his nose out of the core DCU. His power was [[SufficientlyAdvancedAlien ambiguous (though clearly vast)]], and he preferred EyeBeams to fisticuffs. The modern conception of him as the DCU's BigBad and an enemy of Franchise/{{Superman}} in particular didn't occur until 1982, when ''ComicBook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}'' used him as the main villain of ''The Great Darkness Saga'', and 1996, when ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries'' drew on the fact that Darkseid technically debuted in ''ComicBook/JimmyOlsen'' to establish him as one of the few villains capable of matching Superman blow-for-blow.
** Creator/JohnByrne's run on Superman in the late 80's did regularly use Darkseid. Byrne liked to pit Superman against villains that Superman couldn't legally apprehend. See also his incarnation of ComicBook/LexLuthor as a CorruptCorporateExecutive

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* Franchise/{{Superman}}:
**
Smallville being [[{{Superman}} being Clark Kent's]] Kent's hometown is not itself an example of this trope having been established since 1949... but its location being in Kansas was only confirmed as canon in ''1986''. Previously the comics located it anywhere from the Midwest to the East Coast (several stories from UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|of Comic Books}} have it as relatively near the ocean.)
* ** Although ComicBook/{{Supergirl}} is an iconic and inextricable part of the Superman mythos, the best-known and most enduring version of the character (Superman's cousin Kara Zor-El) didn't make her first appearance until 1959, twenty-one years after the debut of Superman. In 1985 DC killed the character and attempted to replace her several times with little success, finally reintroducing a modern Kara Zor-El in 2004.
**
{{ComicBook/Darkseid}}, upon his first appearance in 1970, was strictly a ''ComicBook/NewGods'' character, and generally kept his nose out of the core DCU. His power was [[SufficientlyAdvancedAlien ambiguous (though clearly vast)]], and he preferred EyeBeams to fisticuffs. The modern conception of him as the DCU's BigBad and an enemy of Franchise/{{Superman}} in particular didn't occur until 1982, when ''ComicBook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}'' ''ComicBook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'' used him as the main villain of ''The Great Darkness Saga'', and 1996, when ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries'' drew on the fact that Darkseid technically debuted in ''ComicBook/JimmyOlsen'' to establish him as one of the few villains capable of matching Superman blow-for-blow.
** Creator/JohnByrne's run on Superman in the late 80's did regularly use Darkseid. Byrne liked to pit Superman against villains that Superman couldn't legally apprehend. See also his incarnation of ComicBook/LexLuthor as a CorruptCorporateExecutive
blow-for-blow.



** Specifically, ComicBook/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy is both Newer ''and'' OlderThanYouThink. On one hand, the modern incarnation of the team was formed in 2008, about ''six'' years before the team's [[Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy movie]] came out. On the other hand, most of the characters from the movie were created in the 1960s and 1970s, with Groot debuting in November 1960, ''a full year'' before the ComicBook/FantasticFour, who began the modern Marvel Universe (it wasn't even a superhero comic at all; ''I Challenged Groot, The Monster From Planet X!'' was from Marvel's classic monster/horror imprint ''Tales to Astonish''). In addition, the title of the comic was first used in 1969, but that incarnation was ''very'' different from the one audiences are most familiar with.

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** * Specifically, ComicBook/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy is both Newer ''and'' OlderThanYouThink. On one hand, the modern incarnation of the team was formed in 2008, about ''six'' years before the team's [[Film/GuardiansOfTheGalaxy movie]] came out. On the other hand, most of the characters from the movie were created in the 1960s and 1970s, with Groot debuting in November 1960, ''a full year'' before the ComicBook/FantasticFour, who began the modern Marvel Universe (it wasn't even a superhero comic at all; ''I Challenged Groot, The Monster From Planet X!'' was from Marvel's classic monster/horror imprint ''Tales to Astonish''). In addition, the title of the comic was first used in 1969, but that incarnation was ''very'' different from the one audiences are most familiar with.
15th Sep '17 7:10:55 PM Twentington
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* Although the UrExample of the shopping mall is widely disputed, it is generally agreed upon that its current form began in the 1950s and 1960s. However, food courts didn't exist until 1974.

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* Although the UrExample of the shopping mall is widely disputed, it is generally agreed upon that its current form began in the 1950s and 1960s. However, food courts didn't exist until 1974.1974, and they were still very sporadic until TheNineties.



* Although UsefulNotes/{{Walmart}} was founded in 1962, it was not truly a national chain until 1995, when they opened their first location in Vermont. Even as late as 1990, they barely covered half the country and were still predominantly a Southern chain. Likewise, they didn't start building "supercenters" (i.e., larger stores with complete grocery sections) until 1988, and did not really push to make all their stores supercenters until the 2000s. Before then, most of their stores were only half to one-quarter the size they are now (although in some rural parts of the South, this is still the case due to GrandfatherClause) due to the lack of groceries, pharmacies, automotive, and other departments codified by the "supercenter" format. Also, any stores that had a restaurant in them likely had a cafeteria called Radio Grill or a scaled down [=McDonald's=] that only sold a handful of lunch items, not the Subway franchises that are nearly omnipresent in Walmarts today (the affiliation started in 2004). While the "supercenter" concept is now so commonplace with Walmart that the name is no longer used by the chain, the ''overall'' concept of a "supercenter" is OlderThanTheyThink, having been started back in 1962 (the same year that both Walmart and UsefulNotes/{{Kmart}} were founded) by UsefulNotes/{{Michigan}} chain Meijer, which still outnumbers Walmart in that area. Also, Walmart didn't expand outside the United States until 1995, when the first Canadian stores opened.

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* Although UsefulNotes/{{Walmart}} was founded in 1962, it was not truly a national chain until 1995, when they opened their first location in Vermont. Even as late as 1990, they barely covered half the country and were still predominantly a Southern chain. Likewise, they didn't start building "supercenters" (i.e., larger stores with complete grocery sections) until 1988, and did not really push to make all their stores supercenters until the 2000s.TurnOfTheMillennium. Before then, most of their stores were only half to one-quarter the size they are now (although in some rural parts of the South, this is still the case due to GrandfatherClause) due to the lack of groceries, pharmacies, automotive, and other departments codified by the "supercenter" format. Also, any stores that had a restaurant in them likely had a cafeteria called Radio Grill or a scaled down [=McDonald's=] that only sold a handful of lunch items, not the Subway franchises that are nearly omnipresent in Walmarts today (the affiliation started in 2004). While the "supercenter" concept is now so commonplace with Walmart that the name is no longer used by the chain, the ''overall'' concept of a "supercenter" is OlderThanTheyThink, having been started back in 1962 (the same year that both Walmart and UsefulNotes/{{Kmart}} were founded) by UsefulNotes/{{Michigan}} chain Meijer, which still outnumbers Walmart by a fair margin in that area. state. Also, Walmart didn't expand outside the United States until 1995, when the first Canadian stores opened.opened[[note]]the first few Canadian stores were taken over from Woolco, a division of also now defunct five-and-dime chain F. W. Woolworth; the U.S. Woolco stores closed in 1983, but the name was still used in Canada until 1995. Coincidentally, Walmart took over a few Woolco stores in the South and Lower Midwest as well[[/note]].



* Considering how long some hotel brands such as Holiday Inn, Hilton, Marriott, Howard Johnson's, etc. have been around, one would think that most other hotel chains are of similar vintage, but this is not the case. For instance: Baymont Inn (1973 as Budgetel; renamed in 1999), Drury Inn (1973), Super 8 (1974), Hampton Inn (1984), [=AmericInn=] (1984), and Microtel (1989). Newer still are America's Best Value (1999, with sister brand Lexington starting in 2007) and Magnuson (2003), which grew almost entirely by rebranding other properties.

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* Considering how long some hotel brands such as Holiday Inn, Hilton, Marriott, Howard Johnson's, etc. have been around, one would think that most other hotel chains are of similar vintage, but this is not the case. For instance: Baymont Inn (1973 as Budgetel; renamed in 1999), Drury Inn (1973), Super 8 (1974), (1974, but still largely limited to the Upper Midwest until TheNineties), Hampton Inn (1984), [=AmericInn=] (1984), and Microtel (1989). Newer still are America's Best Value (1999, with sister brand Lexington starting in 2007) (1999) and Magnuson (2003), both of which grew almost entirely by rebranding other properties.
15th Sep '17 5:47:50 PM Twentington
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* Ever wonder why you don't see people sing "Happy Birthday" in TV or movies that often? It's because [[HappyBirthdayToYou it's still under copyright]].
** [[http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/warner-music-pays-14-million-863120 Not any more!!!]]

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* Ever wonder why you don't see people sing "Happy Birthday" in TV or movies that often? It's because [[HappyBirthdayToYou it's it was still under copyright]].
** [[http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/warner-music-pays-14-million-863120 Not any more!!!]]
copyright until the 2010s.



* Brian May and Roger Taylor (of Music/Queen) frequently remark about how young fans are unaware that "We Will Rock You" hasn't been around since the dawn of time, or as Taylor puts it, "They think it's always just been there, written in stone." It was written (both words and music, the famous Stomp-Stomp-Clap) in 1977 for Queen's album ''News of the World'' and despite being a hit pretty much immediately, it was only released as a B-side to "We Are The Champions" in nearly every country. The only exception was a US radio promo 12" single which paired the two songs on one side in the familiar order of "Rock You" followed by "Champions," which is how they're often still played on rock radio to this day; you will almost never hear one song played without the other on American radio.

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* Brian May and Roger Taylor (of Music/Queen) Music/{{Queen}}) frequently remark about how young fans are unaware that "We Will Rock You" hasn't been around since the dawn of time, or as Taylor puts it, "They think it's always just been there, written in stone." It was written (both words and music, the famous Stomp-Stomp-Clap) in 1977 for Queen's album ''News of the World'' and despite being a hit pretty much immediately, it was only released as a B-side to "We Are The Champions" in nearly every country. The only exception was a US radio promo 12" single which paired the two songs on one side in the familiar order of "Rock You" followed by "Champions," which is how they're often still played on rock radio to this day; you will almost never hear one song played without the other on American radio.
8th Sep '17 12:04:23 AM BroadwayPhil
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* While most modern versions of the story of {{King Midas}} and the golden touch usually include Midas turning his daughter (and sometimes other people) to gold, particularly animated versions, the daughter was invented by Author/NathanielHawthorne in 1852. In the original myth, Midas does not touch any person.
7th Sep '17 7:00:32 PM ObsequiousEscargot
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* The idea that all of Batman's villains are varying degrees of insane is fairly young, as well. Though ComicBook/TheJoker has pretty much always been crazy, Arkham Asylum wasn't introduced until 1974 and wasn't consistently called that until 1979. It wasn't really associated with Batman's rogues then, either; most of them were either regular crimelords or traditional supervillains. As late as 1986's Who's Who, only a handful of villains were listed as Arkham residents (Joker, Two-Face, Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, and [[ComicBook/SwampThing Floronic Man]]). The idea seems to have been codified by a mix of the Post-Crisis era giving writers carte blanche to redesign villains into more deranged figures, and the popularity of ''ComicBook/ArkhamAsylumASeriousHouseOnSeriousEarth''.

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* The idea that all of Batman's villains are varying degrees of insane is fairly young, as well. Though ComicBook/TheJoker has pretty much always been crazy, Arkham Asylum wasn't introduced until 1974 and wasn't consistently called that until 1979. It wasn't really associated with Batman's rogues then, either; most of them were either regular crimelords or traditional supervillains. As late as 1986's Who's Who, only a handful of villains were listed as Arkham residents (Joker, Two-Face, Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, and [[ComicBook/SwampThing Floronic Man]]). The idea seems to have been codified by a mix of the Post-Crisis era giving writers carte blanche to redesign villains into more deranged figures, and the popularity of ''ComicBook/ArkhamAsylumASeriousHouseOnSeriousEarth''.''ComicBook/ArkhamAsylumASeriousHouseOnSeriousEarth''.
** ComicBook/TheJoker himself was not always portrayed as being insane. He was at one point or another interested in profit and was often arrested and put in jail. A 1950's comic story '[[http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Vol_1_74 The Crazy Crime Clown]]' even had him feign insanity!!
6th Sep '17 4:26:44 PM GrammarNavi
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* A lot of things you stereotypically associate with WashingtonDC and the U.S. government are newer than you think. If you think two centuries of presidents have sat in the Oval Office, think again. The Oval Office is part of the West Wing, which was built in a 1902 renovation. Prior to that, the President's office was usually located in either the Yellow Oval Room or the Lincoln Bedroom (in fact, the Lincoln Bedroom gets its name from having been UsefulNotes/{{Abraham Lincoln}}'s office). Furthermore, the Oval Office was first built in 1909, but destroyed in a fire a couple decades later. The current Oval Office was built in the 1930s, with a different design and location than the 1909 version. The current home of the U.S. Supreme Court was also built in the 1930s, and in a {{Retraux}} style so that it would fit with government buildings built in the 1790s. Although the Resolute Desk was a gift from UsefulNotes/QueenVictoria in 1880, it wasn't added to the Oval Office until the administration of UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy. The CIA only goes back as far as the late 1940s (the OSS only started up in 1941). The Pentagon opened in 1942, and was originally intended as a temporary structure. However, since the Potomac River is navigable, they decided to fortify it against naval artillery. This decision almost certainly saved some lives 59 years later.

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* A lot of things you stereotypically associate with WashingtonDC UsefulNotes/WashingtonDC and the U.S. government are newer than you think. If you think two centuries of presidents have sat in the Oval Office, think again. The Oval Office is part of the West Wing, which was built in a 1902 renovation. Prior to that, the President's office was usually located in either the Yellow Oval Room or the Lincoln Bedroom (in fact, the Lincoln Bedroom gets its name from having been UsefulNotes/{{Abraham Lincoln}}'s office). Furthermore, the Oval Office was first built in 1909, but destroyed in a fire a couple decades later. The current Oval Office was built in the 1930s, with a different design and location than the 1909 version. The current home of the U.S. Supreme Court was also built in the 1930s, and in a {{Retraux}} style so that it would fit with government buildings built in the 1790s. Although the Resolute Desk was a gift from UsefulNotes/QueenVictoria in 1880, it wasn't added to the Oval Office until the administration of UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy. The CIA only goes back as far as the late 1940s (the OSS only started up in 1941). The Pentagon opened in 1942, and was originally intended as a temporary structure. However, since the Potomac River is navigable, they decided to fortify it against naval artillery. This decision almost certainly saved some lives 59 years later.
3rd Sep '17 8:14:06 PM Phediuk
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* Speaking of chicken, Buffalo wings date from no earlier than the mid-1960s. There are a few different claims as to who was the first to serve them in Buffalo, but none of them claim to have done so any earlier than 1964.

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* Speaking of chicken, Buffalo wings date from no earlier than the mid-1960s.mid-1960s; before then, chicken wings were seen as offal, fit only to feed to dogs or to use for broth. There are a few different claims as to who was the first to serve them in Buffalo, but none of them claim to have done so any earlier than 1964. They did not become a nationwide phenomenon until the 1990s.
27th Aug '17 10:10:16 AM Phediuk
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* The first American presidential debate was between UsefulNotes/JohnFKennedy and UsefulNotes/RichardNixon in 1960. There had been a scant few debates for lower offices before then (most notably the Lincoln/Douglas Senate debates in 1858), but face-to-face debating as a routine part of American political life is an invention of the television age.
24th Aug '17 10:56:58 PM Phediuk
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* The theory that a meteor strike was the cause of the extinction of the dinosaurs was first proposed in 1980, and didn't become the orthodox explanation until the early 1990s.

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* The theory that a meteor strike was the cause of the extinction of the dinosaurs was first proposed in 1980, 1980 by Luis and Walter Alvarez, and didn't become the orthodox explanation until the early 1990s.


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* Plate tectonics were first theorized in the 1960s and became consensus among geologists in the 1970s.
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