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History Main / Naytheist

14th May '16 7:37:56 PM Fireblood
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** Note that the last line goes as far as to claim that anyone who doesn't worship any gods (or anything that isn't the Abrahamic deity, since it supposes that everyone inherently knows that other gods are fake) must be worshiping something else by default, [[{{Narcissist}} be it themselves]], [[{{Greed}} a material element ]], [[TheHedonist or pure pleasure]]. Some real life theists actually believe this is necessarily the case for atheists, even though these three ways of living just mentioned are not a vital pillar for lack of religious belief by itself, nor a necessary consequence of it. Others have argued this does not refer to atheism, which at the time was not really considered a possibility (at least in the West).

to:

** Note that the last line goes as far as to claim that anyone who doesn't worship any gods (or anything that isn't the Abrahamic deity, since it supposes that everyone inherently knows that other gods are fake) must be worshiping something else by default, [[{{Narcissist}} be it themselves]], [[{{Greed}} a material element ]], [[TheHedonist or pure pleasure]]. Some real life theists actually believe this is necessarily the case for atheists, even though these three ways of living just mentioned are not a vital pillar for lack of religious belief by itself, nor a necessary consequence of it. Others have argued this does not refer to atheism, which at the time was not really considered a possibility (at least in the West).less well known, but rather impiety.
4th May '16 1:00:55 PM TheOneWhoTropes
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* Similarly, Battler from ''VisualNovel/UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' is engaged in a very involved argument with a witch that he said doesn't exist. Her killing him, bringing him back to life, etc. has nothing to do with the issue. She eventually gets sneaky in her pursuit of his belief. And sadistic. Mostly sadistic. He verges somewhat into FlatEarthAtheist territory because his debate is literally over her existence - he does not, in fact, accept it. [[spoiler:Although he does swing in this direction in later arcs. At least enough to accept that Beatrice has enough of an existence to have motives]]. [[spoiler:And he switches sides when he winds up as Endless Sorcerer]].

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* Similarly, Battler from ''VisualNovel/UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' ''VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry'' is engaged in a very involved argument with a witch that he said doesn't exist. Her killing him, bringing him back to life, etc. has nothing to do with the issue. She eventually gets sneaky in her pursuit of his belief. And sadistic. Mostly sadistic. He verges somewhat into FlatEarthAtheist territory because his debate is literally over her existence - he does not, in fact, accept it. [[spoiler:Although he does swing in this direction in later arcs. At least enough to accept that Beatrice has enough of an existence to have motives]]. [[spoiler:And he switches sides when he winds up as Endless Sorcerer]].
24th Apr '16 7:46:24 AM MinisterOfSinister
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He may go through the motions of worship, but if so, it's only to avoid getting struck by lightning or stoned by an angry mob, not out of any sincere religious feelings.

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He may go through the motions of worship, but if so, it's only to avoid getting struck by lightning or stoned by an angry mob, not out of any sincere religious feelings.
feelings. Alternatively, he may spend time [[RageAgainstTheHeavens voicing his dislike of them to anyone who'll listen]], possibly while [[SmiteMeOMightySmiter daring the powers-that-be to strike him down]].
30th Mar '16 11:26:46 PM Anddrix
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* Jace Wayland from ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'' ''believes'' that there is a God, just not that God cares, after seeing his father murdered in front of him.

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* ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'':
**
Jace Wayland from ''Literature/TheMortalInstruments'' ''believes'' that there is a God, just not that God cares, after seeing his father murdered in front of him.him.
** The Clave as a whole is extremely irreligious considering that they are a group of enhanced humans whose gifts were very explicitly granted to them by an archangel. While they show a notable interest in angelology, and can name more angels than most people who are not professional theologians, they tend to steer clear of discussions about {{God}}. The Nephilim have no churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. in Idris, and when seeking consecrated ground for their Institutes they are prone to using sites that were formerly mundane locations of worship. They also rely heavily on holy water, but do not produce it themselves, instead getting it from various mundane religions.



* In the ''Literature/MortalInstruments'' novels, the protagonist Jace in particular, but the Shadowhunter Clave as a whole is extremely irreligious considering that they are a group of enhanced humans whose gifts were very explicitly granted to them by an archangel. While they show a notable interest in angelology, and can name more angels than most people who are not professional theologians, they tend to steer clear of discussions about {{God}}. The Nephilim have no churches, synagogues, mosques, etc in Idris, and when seeking consecrated ground for their Institutes they are prone to using sites that were formerly mundane locations of worship. They also rely heavily on holy water, but do not produce it themselves, instead getting it from various mundane religions.
18th Mar '16 6:04:08 AM johnnye
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The technical term for this position is [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alatrism alatrism]], if the person believes in but does not worship god(s), and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misotheism misotheism]] for the stronger version if the person believes in but also hates god(s). Of course, it's likely a misotheist would also be an alatrist, since it's hard to imagine someone worshiping a god or gods which they hated.

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The technical term for this position is [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alatrism alatrism]], if the person believes in but does not worship god(s), and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misotheism misotheism]] for the stronger version if the person believes in but also hates god(s). Of course, it's likely a misotheist would also be an alatrist, since it's hard to imagine someone worshiping a god or gods which they hated. \n For media portrayals of atheists as misotheists (among other misconceptions), see HollywoodAtheist.
15th Mar '16 3:22:26 AM WanderingBrowser
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* Very common in ''TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness'', since being a supernatural being gives a person a certain perspective that induces natural skepticism towards the existence and/or worthiness of human-worshipped gods.

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* Very common in ''TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness'', since being a supernatural being gives a person a certain perspective that induces natural skepticism towards the existence and/or worthiness of human-worshipped gods. Exactly how tends to vary depending on the supernatural race in question.
** [[TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem Vampires]] are the least likely splat to give this. They're clearly supernatural, yes, but compared to some other races, they're surprisingly ignorant of the world around them. Although their lack of certain traditional "holy" weaknesses, like being repelled by crosses or unable to enter churches, does give some pause, many aren't sure. As a result, one of the five Covenants who give vampires some organization in the night are the Lanceae et Sanctum, a Christian Covenant that preaches vampires have a place in the scheme of things as "God's chosen monsters", with the purpose of ScareEmStraight.
** [[TabletopGame/WerewolfTheForsaken Werewolves]] after changing are exposed to [[DarkWorld the Shadow]], which is the birthplace of the animistic spirits who underlie all of creation. Actual religious figures, particularly of the Abrahamic faiths, don't show up at all, though spirits deliberately trying to found cults and manipulate mortals do. At the same time, spirits can give potent magical boons to those who help them, and worshiping them is one of the easiest ways to do so. So, not only is there a tiny minority of werewolves who manage to cling to their pre-Change beliefs, there's also a minority of werewolves who actively worship their totemic spirits, although they're not supposed to. The Pure are more of an aversion; they genuinely do worship and reverse the spirits, which is one of the reasons why the spirits like them more than the Forsaken.
** [[TabletopGame/MageTheAwakening Mages]] are a mixed bag. Some do give up on their old beliefs after their Awakening, especially those who have the ability to communicate with the dead or the spirits. Others retain their old faiths. Others still devise whole new belief systems to account for their powers.
** [[TabletopGame/PrometheanTheCreated Prometheans]] generally don't think much about religion, being too concerned with their ongoing Pilgrimage to try and forge souls for themselves. Many do form a sincere belief for their chosen faith if they choose to explore it, but others still tend to drift away again when they realise it's not going to magically finish their quest for them.
** [[TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost Changelings]] are well aware that there are creatures out there that might as well be divine... of course, as these same creatures abducted and tormented them, transforming them into half-human freaks, they generally aren't inclined to worship them, and often become skeptical of human religions as well. There are those who don't feel that way, especially if they become convinced that their Durance was God's punishment for sinning or some such thing, but they tend to be a minority.
** [[TabletopGame/GeistTheSinEater Sin-Eaters]] may play this straight or may avert this; although their religions are often cobbled together from what they've seen of the underworld and, often, bits and pieces of their original beliefs or their occult lore, they tend to be very sincere about it. Dying and coming back from the dead tends to breed a respect for the idea that there are more things out there than humans are generally aware of.
** [[TabletopGame/MummyTheArisen Mummies]] know for a fact that the Judges of Duat are real -- they can hear them screaming in their souls when the Arisen thinks about disobeying, and they only exist because the Judges created them in the first place. So the vast majority of the Arisen do worship and homage the Judges. On the other hand, they tend to be scornful towards human religions, save for how they can utilise and exploit them; after all, Mummies were created [[TimeAbyss centuries before the Abrahamic faiths existed]], and many of the Arisen can remember ''being there'' for the founding of Islam and doing battle against Judaic heroes during the time period the Old Testament calls the Book of Judges. MThat said, a few of the Arisen have recreated their faith in a more henotheistic [[note]]There are many gods, but only one is worthy of worship, which is actually the original form of the Judaic faith during the Bronze Age[[/note]] interpretation. There's even a Muslim-practicing mummy mentioned in one of the sourcebooks.
** [[TabletopGame/DemonTheDescent Demons]] generally fall under this. Having fled the service of the God-Machine, most are convinced that GodIsEvil and/or that it's a MadGod and certainly not worthy of servitude. The Integrators are exceptions, and even they believe that the God-Machine needs some...maintenance... before they can go back to its arms. Additionally, whilst most Demons are contemptuous of mortal beliefs, there is a small sect that spun out of the Integrator agenda that actively looks for a "real" god to offer their services to, rather than seeking a return to the God-Machine.
7th Mar '16 4:36:08 PM psionycx
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Added DiffLines:

* In the ''Literature/MortalInstruments'' novels, the protagonist Jace in particular, but the Shadowhunter Clave as a whole is extremely irreligious considering that they are a group of enhanced humans whose gifts were very explicitly granted to them by an archangel. While they show a notable interest in angelology, and can name more angels than most people who are not professional theologians, they tend to steer clear of discussions about {{God}}. The Nephilim have no churches, synagogues, mosques, etc in Idris, and when seeking consecrated ground for their Institutes they are prone to using sites that were formerly mundane locations of worship. They also rely heavily on holy water, but do not produce it themselves, instead getting it from various mundane religions.
2nd Mar '16 6:28:01 PM WhatRayDid
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Added DiffLines:

*** Harry has met several gods personally, and their reaction to him has largely been that he's not important enough to shift their existing plans to accommodate his need to keep breathing, and his interactions with the high-level servants of gods (angels, the queens of the courts) have most often resulted in them attempting to make him a pawn or destroy him. Lack of worship is really just returning the favor at this point.
14th Feb '16 9:54:59 AM Theriocephalus
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23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,\\

to:

23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. \\
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,\\



** Note that the last line goes as far as to claim that anyone who doesn't worship any gods (or anything that isn't the Abrahamic deity, since it supposes that everyone inherently knows that other gods are fake) must be worshiping something else by default, [[{{Narcissist}} be it themselves]], [[{{Greed}} a material element ]], [[TheHedonist or pure pleasure]]. Some real life theists actually believe this is necessarily the case for atheists, even though these 3 ways of living just mentioned are not a vital pillar for lack of religious belief by itself, nor a necessary consequence of it. Others have argued this does not refer to atheism, which at the time was not really considered a possibility (at least in the West).

to:

** Note that the last line goes as far as to claim that anyone who doesn't worship any gods (or anything that isn't the Abrahamic deity, since it supposes that everyone inherently knows that other gods are fake) must be worshiping something else by default, [[{{Narcissist}} be it themselves]], [[{{Greed}} a material element ]], [[TheHedonist or pure pleasure]]. Some real life theists actually believe this is necessarily the case for atheists, even though these 3 three ways of living just mentioned are not a vital pillar for lack of religious belief by itself, nor a necessary consequence of it. Others have argued this does not refer to atheism, which at the time was not really considered a possibility (at least in the West).
14th Feb '16 9:52:24 AM Theriocephalus
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He may go through the motions of worship, but if so, it's only to avoid getting struck by lightning or stoned by an angry mob, not out of any sincere Religious feelings.

to:

He may go through the motions of worship, but if so, it's only to avoid getting struck by lightning or stoned by an angry mob, not out of any sincere Religious religious feelings.
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