History Main / MoralityKitchenSink

18th Jun '17 10:24:14 AM ACW
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* ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'': At the furthest extreme of the Hero end we have Michael Carpenter, [[RedBaron the Fist of God]], who only fights monsters, has a grand total of one recorded instance of swearing in the series proper (which was in a side story), and is all around about as wholesome as a person can be. Slightly away from the good extreme would be the majority of the series other heroes e.g. [[TheHero Harry Dresden]], he's a generally upstanding guy with a '''''massive''''' case of ChronicHeroSyndrome, but isn't above a bit of pragmatism if it's necessary. More towards the middle of the scale is [[MagicalSociety The White Council]] which is made up of plenty of KnightTemplar {{Jerkass}}es, but has methods which are shown to oftentimes be necessary. The main representative of dark grey is John Marcone, who is a ruthless crime boss, but ends up [[EnemyMine joining forces]] with Dresden more often than opposing him and '''''[[BerserkButton will not]]''''' [[EvenEvilHasStandards tolerate any violence against children]]. And when it comes to his usual criminal activities, he believes, as characters of his type often do, that crime's going to exist no matter what, and it's better than it be controlled by someone like him than descend into every-gang-for-itself warfare. As for the monsters of the setting, we have any one the supernatural villains, e.g. the Skinwalker, a terrifying and sadistic CompleteMonster whose [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm true form]]'s mere sight is enough to send Harry into a HeroicBSOD. To top it off, we even have BlueAndOrangeMorality in the form of [[TheFairFolk the fae]], whose Winter Court [[spoiler:guards the universe against monsters from Outside, who don't ''enter'' reality so much as ''parasitize'' it]], and whose Summer Court [[spoiler:protects the universe from the Winter Court]]. On top of that, we find that Winter has the ability to be ''logical'' and stay its hand when it's best to in the long term, while Summer is more prone to going off half-cocked (and when a fae as powerful as the leaders of the courts does that, we can be talking armageddon.)

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* ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'': At the furthest extreme of the Hero end we have Michael Carpenter, [[RedBaron the Fist of God]], who only fights monsters, has a grand total of one recorded instance of swearing in the series proper (which was in a side story), and is all around about as wholesome as a person can be. Slightly away from the good extreme would be the majority of the series other heroes e.g. [[TheHero Harry Dresden]], he's a generally upstanding guy with a '''''massive''''' case of ChronicHeroSyndrome, but isn't above a bit of pragmatism if it's necessary. More towards the middle of the scale is [[MagicalSociety The White Council]] which is made up of plenty of KnightTemplar {{Jerkass}}es, but has methods which are shown to oftentimes be necessary. The main representative of dark grey is John Marcone, who is a ruthless crime boss, but ends up [[EnemyMine joining forces]] with Dresden more often than opposing him and '''''[[BerserkButton will not]]''''' [[EvenEvilHasStandards tolerate any violence against children]]. And when it comes to his usual criminal activities, he believes, as characters of his type often do, that crime's going to exist no matter what, and it's better than it be controlled by someone like him than descend into every-gang-for-itself warfare. As for the monsters of the setting, we have any one the supernatural villains, e.g. the Skinwalker, a terrifying and sadistic CompleteMonster monster whose [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm true form]]'s mere sight is enough to send Harry into a HeroicBSOD. To top it off, we even have BlueAndOrangeMorality in the form of [[TheFairFolk the fae]], whose Winter Court [[spoiler:guards the universe against monsters from Outside, who don't ''enter'' reality so much as ''parasitize'' it]], and whose Summer Court [[spoiler:protects the universe from the Winter Court]]. On top of that, we find that Winter has the ability to be ''logical'' and stay its hand when it's best to in the long term, while Summer is more prone to going off half-cocked (and when a fae as powerful as the leaders of the courts does that, we can be talking armageddon.)
14th Jun '17 11:38:54 PM PhantomRider
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* ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'': At the furthest extreme of the Hero end we have Michael Carpenter, [[RedBaron the Fist of God]], who only fights monsters, has a grand total of one recorded instance of swearing in the series proper (which was in a side story), and is all around about as wholesome as a person can be. Slightly away from the good extreme would be the majority of the series other heroes e.g. [[TheHero Harry Dresden]], he's a generally upstanding guy with a '''''massive''''' case of ChronicHeroSyndrome, but isn't above a bit of pragmatism if it's necessary. More towards the middle of the scale is [[MagicalSociety The White Council]] which is made up of plenty of KnightTemplar {{Jerkass}}es, but has methods which are shown to oftentimes be necessary. The main representative of dark grey is John Marcone, who is a ruthless crime boss, but ends up [[EnemyMine joining forces]] with Dresden more often than opposing him and '''''[[BerserkButton will not]]''''' [[EvenEvilHasStandards tolerate any violence against children]]. As for the monsters of the setting, we have any one the supernatural villains, e.g. the Skinwalker, whose [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm true form]]'s mere sight is enough to send harry into a HeroicBSOD. To top it off, we even have BlueAndOrangeMorality in the form of [[TheFairFolk the fae]], whose Winter Court [[spoiler:guards the universe against monsters from Outside, who don't ''enter'' reality so much as ''parasitize'' it]], and whose Summer Court [[spoiler:protects the universe from the Winter Court]].

to:

* ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'': At the furthest extreme of the Hero end we have Michael Carpenter, [[RedBaron the Fist of God]], who only fights monsters, has a grand total of one recorded instance of swearing in the series proper (which was in a side story), and is all around about as wholesome as a person can be. Slightly away from the good extreme would be the majority of the series other heroes e.g. [[TheHero Harry Dresden]], he's a generally upstanding guy with a '''''massive''''' case of ChronicHeroSyndrome, but isn't above a bit of pragmatism if it's necessary. More towards the middle of the scale is [[MagicalSociety The White Council]] which is made up of plenty of KnightTemplar {{Jerkass}}es, but has methods which are shown to oftentimes be necessary. The main representative of dark grey is John Marcone, who is a ruthless crime boss, but ends up [[EnemyMine joining forces]] with Dresden more often than opposing him and '''''[[BerserkButton will not]]''''' [[EvenEvilHasStandards tolerate any violence against children]]. And when it comes to his usual criminal activities, he believes, as characters of his type often do, that crime's going to exist no matter what, and it's better than it be controlled by someone like him than descend into every-gang-for-itself warfare. As for the monsters of the setting, we have any one the supernatural villains, e.g. the Skinwalker, a terrifying and sadistic CompleteMonster whose [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm true form]]'s mere sight is enough to send harry Harry into a HeroicBSOD. To top it off, we even have BlueAndOrangeMorality in the form of [[TheFairFolk the fae]], whose Winter Court [[spoiler:guards the universe against monsters from Outside, who don't ''enter'' reality so much as ''parasitize'' it]], and whose Summer Court [[spoiler:protects the universe from the Winter Court]]. On top of that, we find that Winter has the ability to be ''logical'' and stay its hand when it's best to in the long term, while Summer is more prone to going off half-cocked (and when a fae as powerful as the leaders of the courts does that, we can be talking armageddon.)
22nd May '17 12:22:56 PM NNinja
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* ''VisualNovel/ZeroEscape'' Trilogy has recuring themes including HiddenDepths and WhatAreYouInTheDark and most characters tend to be morally complex individuals. While there are few clearly good people([[spoiler:Seven, Luna, Diana]]) and few clearly bad people ([[spoiler:Hongou, Dio]]) almost everyone is varrying shade of grey with motivations ranging from "save everyone" to "save people i care about" to "save myself" with a few people with higher goals thrown in for good measure, as well as varrying degrees of ruthlesness and moral standards in pursuing those goals. Even the same character can be morally different depending on the situation and player's choices.
4th May '17 5:13:46 AM DreamerCynist2
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** ''{{Disney/Frozen}}'' makes use of this as part of a GenreDeconstruction of the typical Disney fairytale. The only true heroic characters are [[GenkiGirl Princess Anna of Arendelle]] (who, as a Deconstruction of the typical Disney heroine, suffers a few WhatAnIdiot and WrongGenreSavvy moments), Kristoff (who's gruff and standoffish, but turns out to be a JerkWithAHeartOfGold) and [[PluckyComicRelief Olaf]]. [[AnIcePerson Queen Elsa]], serves as a Deconstruction for the Evil Queen archetype, is a {{Dark Magical|Girl}} [[PersonOfMassDestruction Girl of Mass Destruction]] who can create ''sentient life'' and declares herself AboveGoodAndEvil. But she soon suffers a severe case of PowerIncontinence that plunges her country in an EndlessWinter [[spoiler:that she eventually learns how to lift]] and has one TraumaCongaLine after the next. Anna and Elsa's parents, serving as a deconstruction for the typical Missing Parent, are just [[ParentsAsPeople regular people]] who are UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom by isolating Elsa (and Anna) from the rest of the world for so many years. The trolls, despite their best intentions, are rather [[PoorCommunicationKills vague]] on their instructions and caused the above misunderstanding on the part of the Arendelle royal family. The Duke of Weselton is a NotSoHarmlessVillain who is very [[ItsAllAboutMe egocentric]] but he is a WellIntentionedExtremist who wants to save Arendelle from the winter Elsa cast (if only for selfish reasons). [[spoiler:And then there's the Deconstruction of PrinceCharming, Prince Hans who has, according to WordOfGod, a FreudianExcuse]].

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** ''{{Disney/Frozen}}'' makes use of this as part of a GenreDeconstruction of the typical Disney fairytale. The only true heroic characters are [[GenkiGirl Princess Anna of Arendelle]] (who, as a Deconstruction of the typical Disney heroine, suffers a few WhatAnIdiot and WrongGenreSavvy moments), Kristoff (who's gruff and standoffish, but turns out to be a JerkWithAHeartOfGold) and [[PluckyComicRelief Olaf]]. Olaf]] (as a living symbol of the bond between the two sisters). [[AnIcePerson Queen Elsa]], serves as a Deconstruction for the Evil Queen archetype, is a {{Dark Magical|Girl}} [[PersonOfMassDestruction Girl of Mass Destruction]] who can create ''sentient life'' and declares herself AboveGoodAndEvil. But she soon suffers a severe case of PowerIncontinence that plunges her country in an EndlessWinter [[spoiler:that she eventually learns how to lift]] and has one TraumaCongaLine after the next. Anna and Elsa's parents, serving as a deconstruction for the typical Missing Parent, are just [[ParentsAsPeople regular people]] who are UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom by isolating Elsa (and Anna) from the rest of the world for so many years. The trolls, despite their best intentions, are rather [[PoorCommunicationKills vague]] on their instructions and caused the above misunderstanding on the part of the Arendelle royal family. The Duke of Weselton is a NotSoHarmlessVillain who is very [[ItsAllAboutMe egocentric]] but he is a WellIntentionedExtremist who wants to save Arendelle from the winter Elsa cast (if only for selfish reasons). [[spoiler:And then there's the Deconstruction of PrinceCharming, Prince Hans who is a manipulative would-be usurper but has, according to WordOfGod, a FreudianExcuse]].
3rd May '17 8:25:29 AM DreamerCynist2
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** ''{{Disney/Frozen}}'' served this as a GenreDeconstruction of the typical Disney fairytale. The only true heroic characters are [[GenkiGirl Princess Anna of Arendelle]] (who, as a Deconstruction of the typical Disney heroine, suffered a few WhatAnIdiot and WrongGenreSavvy moments), Kristoff and [[PluckyComicRelief Olaf]]. [[AnIcePerson Queen Elsa]], served as a Deconstruction for the Evil Queen archetype, is a {{Dark Magical|Girl}} [[PersonOfMassDestruction Girl of Mass Destruction]] who can create ''sentient life'' and declares herself AboveGoodAndEvil. But she soon suffered a severe case of PowerIncontinence that plunges her country in an EndlessWinter [[spoiler:that she eventually learns how to lift]] and suffered one TraumaCongaLine after the next. Anna and Elsa's parents, served for the typical Missing Parent, are just [[ParentsAsPeople regular people]] who are UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom by isolating Elsa (and Anna) from the rest of the world for so many years. The trolls, despite their best intention, is rather [[PoorCommunicationKills vague]] on their instruction and caused the above misunderstanding on the part of the Arendelle royal family. The Duke of Weselton is a NotSoHarmlessVillain who is very [[ItsAllAboutMe egocentric]] but he is a WellIntentionedExtremist who wants to save Arendelle from the winter Elsa cast (if only for selfish reason). [[spoiler:And then there's the Deconstruction of PrinceCharming, Prince Hans who has, according to WordOfGod, a FreudianExcuse]].

to:

** ''{{Disney/Frozen}}'' served makes use of this as part of a GenreDeconstruction of the typical Disney fairytale. The only true heroic characters are [[GenkiGirl Princess Anna of Arendelle]] (who, as a Deconstruction of the typical Disney heroine, suffered suffers a few WhatAnIdiot and WrongGenreSavvy moments), Kristoff (who's gruff and standoffish, but turns out to be a JerkWithAHeartOfGold) and [[PluckyComicRelief Olaf]]. [[AnIcePerson Queen Elsa]], served serves as a Deconstruction for the Evil Queen archetype, is a {{Dark Magical|Girl}} [[PersonOfMassDestruction Girl of Mass Destruction]] who can create ''sentient life'' and declares herself AboveGoodAndEvil. But she soon suffered suffers a severe case of PowerIncontinence that plunges her country in an EndlessWinter [[spoiler:that she eventually learns how to lift]] and suffered has one TraumaCongaLine after the next. Anna and Elsa's parents, served serving as a deconstruction for the typical Missing Parent, are just [[ParentsAsPeople regular people]] who are UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom by isolating Elsa (and Anna) from the rest of the world for so many years. The trolls, despite their best intention, is intentions, are rather [[PoorCommunicationKills vague]] on their instruction instructions and caused the above misunderstanding on the part of the Arendelle royal family. The Duke of Weselton is a NotSoHarmlessVillain who is very [[ItsAllAboutMe egocentric]] but he is a WellIntentionedExtremist who wants to save Arendelle from the winter Elsa cast (if only for selfish reason).reasons). [[spoiler:And then there's the Deconstruction of PrinceCharming, Prince Hans who has, according to WordOfGod, a FreudianExcuse]].
2nd Apr '17 10:30:01 AM nombretomado
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* ''PandoraHearts'' is all over the place. This trope becomes most distinct after it's revealed that [[spoiler:Jack isn't the squeaky-clean hero everyone believed him to be but rather a TragicVillain driven to insanity by his [[LoveMakesYouCrazy love for Lacie]]. Furthermore, Oswald/Glen isn't the ManipulativeBastard BigBad he's been portrayed as but an endearingly socially awkward WellIntentionedExtremist who hasn't handled being betrayed one too many times by those close to him so well]]. And that's only ''two'' [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters of the characters]].

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* ''PandoraHearts'' ''Manga/PandoraHearts'' is all over the place. This trope becomes most distinct after it's revealed that [[spoiler:Jack isn't the squeaky-clean hero everyone believed him to be but rather a TragicVillain driven to insanity by his [[LoveMakesYouCrazy love for Lacie]]. Furthermore, Oswald/Glen isn't the ManipulativeBastard BigBad he's been portrayed as but an endearingly socially awkward WellIntentionedExtremist who hasn't handled being betrayed one too many times by those close to him so well]]. And that's only ''two'' [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters of the characters]].
23rd Mar '17 3:57:51 PM Vir
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* ''LeagueOfLegends'' was more black-and-white early on with its underlying Demacia (good) vs Noxus (evil) backstory, but it has become far more complex over the years, with Demacia being rewritten as a LawfulNeutral kingdom with occasional KnightsTemplar tendencies and Noxus developing into a SocialDarwinist culture that values honor as well as strength. Individual characters can fall anywhere on the scale regardless of origin, and include various shades of MartialPacifist, AntiHero, WellIntentionedExtremist, and CardCarryingVillain. Add a few [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Abominations]] into the mix alongside BlueAndOrangeMorality spirits to round out the cast and you have a rather complex scale with characters falling all over the place.
* ''ShinMegamiTensei'': This is usually how the games start: humanity has been plunged into a terrifying environment where the EndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt is either looming on the horizon or is a very recent memory, [[FantasyKitchenSink all manner of mythical beings]] are running rampant, and a [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits bunch of humans of varying personalities, backgrounds, and degrees of morality and idealism]] are just trying to stay alive, with finding a solution to the mess an ever-present ([[ActionSurvivor but often secondary]]) concern. Then [[LawfulEvil Law]] and [[ChaoticEvil Chaos]]-aligned beings start pressuring the heroes to take a stance. By the third act, almost everyone [[WithUsOrAgainstUs will have taken a side]] and [[MortonsFork demand you do the same]]. Should you choose neither, you end up as [[OnlySaneMan one of the few sane people]] in an EvilVersusEvil scenario.

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* ''LeagueOfLegends'' ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' was more black-and-white early on with its underlying Demacia (good) vs Noxus (evil) backstory, but it has become far more complex over the years, with Demacia being rewritten as a LawfulNeutral kingdom with occasional KnightsTemplar tendencies and Noxus developing into a SocialDarwinist culture that values honor as well as strength. Individual characters can fall anywhere on the scale regardless of origin, and include various shades of MartialPacifist, AntiHero, WellIntentionedExtremist, and CardCarryingVillain. Add a few [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Abominations]] into the mix alongside BlueAndOrangeMorality spirits to round out the cast and you have a rather complex scale with characters falling all over the place.
* ''ShinMegamiTensei'': ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'': This is usually how the games start: humanity has been plunged into a terrifying environment where the EndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt is either looming on the horizon or is a very recent memory, [[FantasyKitchenSink all manner of mythical beings]] are running rampant, and a [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits bunch of humans of varying personalities, backgrounds, and degrees of morality and idealism]] are just trying to stay alive, with finding a solution to the mess an ever-present ([[ActionSurvivor but often secondary]]) concern. Then [[LawfulEvil Law]] and [[ChaoticEvil Chaos]]-aligned beings start pressuring the heroes to take a stance. By the third act, almost everyone [[WithUsOrAgainstUs will have taken a side]] and [[MortonsFork demand you do the same]]. Should you choose neither, you end up as [[OnlySaneMan one of the few sane people]] in an EvilVersusEvil scenario.



** However, let it be known that "Light Side" and "Dark Side" are very different concepts for Imperial characters and Republic characters. At worst, a dark sided Republic character will be a TokenEvilTeammate, generally they'll be {{AntiHero}}es. On the other side, Light sided Imperials are generally {{AntiVillain}}s of various degrees, with the best being [[SlidingScaleOfAntiVillains Type IVs]], devoid of villainous actions, but still on the "bad side."
*** The smuggler (republic) dark-side story ends with you [[spoiler: seizing control of a massive interstellar pirate fleet through murder and betrayal, then using the "distraction" of the climactic good-versus-evil battle of the other storylines to loot and then raze most of the starports in the galaxy in an orgy of murder, rape, and pillage]]. Additionally, the only person to make any kind of attempt at non-murder conflict resolution in the Jedi knight storyline is [[spoiler:a Sith officer, who ends up nobly sacrificing himself for morality]] while the actual player, light side or dark, takes the easy and bloody way out. I'd say they've got the GreyAndGreyMorality covered pretty well.

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** However, let it be known that "Light Side" and "Dark Side" are very different concepts for Imperial characters and Republic characters. At worst, a dark sided Republic character will be a TokenEvilTeammate, generally they'll be {{AntiHero}}es. [[AntiHero Anti-Heroes]]. On the other side, Light sided Imperials are generally {{AntiVillain}}s [[AntiVillain Anti-Villains]] of various degrees, with the best being [[SlidingScaleOfAntiVillains Type IVs]], devoid of villainous actions, but still on the "bad side."
*** The smuggler (republic) dark-side (Republic) Dark Side story ends with you [[spoiler: seizing control of a massive interstellar pirate fleet through murder and betrayal, then using the "distraction" of the climactic good-versus-evil battle of the other storylines to loot and then raze most of the starports in the galaxy in an orgy of murder, rape, and pillage]]. Additionally, the only person to make any kind of attempt at non-murder conflict resolution in the Jedi knight Knight storyline is [[spoiler:a Sith officer, who ends up nobly sacrificing himself for morality]] while the actual player, light side Light Side or dark, Dark, takes the easy and bloody way out. I'd say they've got the GreyAndGreyMorality GreyAndGrayMorality covered pretty well.
14th Mar '17 3:36:02 PM JulianLapostat
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-->-- '''Octave''', ''Film/The RulesOfTheGame''

to:

-->-- '''Octave''', ''Film/The RulesOfTheGame''
''Film/TheRulesOfTheGame''
14th Mar '17 3:35:52 PM JulianLapostat
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-->-- '''Octave''', ''[[Creator/JeanRenoir The Rules of the Game]]''

to:

-->-- '''Octave''', ''[[Creator/JeanRenoir The Rules of the Game]]''
''Film/The RulesOfTheGame''
13th Mar '17 7:03:23 PM MasterHero
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* ''LightNovel/TheAsteriskWar'': Only the protagonists are the White area of morality. Several characters like Claudia willing to use underhanded means to achieve noble goals, while the the Integrated Entreprises Foundation is a power-hungry MegaCorp that keeps entire countries in poverty simply because it's profitable to them.

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* ''LightNovel/TheAsteriskWar'': Only the protagonists and Sylvia are in the White area of morality. Several characters like Claudia are willing to use underhanded means to achieve noble goals, while the the goals. Others like Irene and Orphelia used to be good people until they were forced into villainy by circumstances beyond their control. The Integrated Entreprises Enterprises Foundation is a power-hungry MegaCorp that keeps entire countries in poverty simply because it's profitable to them.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MoralityKitchenSink