History Main / MinMaxersDelight

20th Feb '17 5:57:58 PM Exxolon
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*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''twenty'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two, most three and some weaker four hit dice enemies with a single hit. Sensible [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing its use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.

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*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''twenty'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two, most three and some weaker four hit dice enemies with a single hit.hit - and you got two shots every combat round. A first level character with decent dexterity and strength scores and a strength adjusted bow (that allows you to add your strength bonuses to hit and damage as well as your dexterity bonus to hit) could be absurdly overpowered as long as they weren't forced into melee combat with a theoretical maximum damage output of over 50hp/combat round, enough to drop any creature of six hit dice or below regardless of hit points and enough to take out an average ''eleven'' hit dice creature such as a fire giant in a single round. Sensible [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing its use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.
20th Feb '17 1:12:48 PM Exxolon
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*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and most three hit dice enemies. Sensible [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing its use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.

to:

*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' ''twenty'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and two, most three and some weaker four hit dice enemies.enemies with a single hit. Sensible [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing its use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.
19th Feb '17 10:02:15 AM Exxolon
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* In ''VideoGame/MasterOfOrion'' 2: Battle at Antares you had the trait picks: creative (get every tech at each tech level instead of only picking one, this logarithmically makes you more powerful if you remember to stop improving planets and make ships at some point) as well as the Unification government that grants a flat 50% bonus to food and production. Klackons (who naturally have Unification) are balanced because they are '''un'''creative and get a random tech instead of choosing one, a custom race can take both advantages for 15 points, leaving 'em 5 to get some more advantages. Theortically you could decide not to get max flaws instead, but since creative will let you fix most/all disadvantages in midgame at no extra cost you SHOULD get as many flaws as you can get for "free" advantages.

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* In ''VideoGame/MasterOfOrion'' ''VideoGame/MasterOfOrion 2: Battle at Antares Antares'' you had the trait picks: creative (get every tech at each tech level instead of only picking one, this logarithmically makes you more powerful if you remember to stop improving planets and make ships at some point) as well as the Unification government that grants a flat 50% bonus to food and production. Klackons (who naturally have Unification) are balanced because they are '''un'''creative and get a random tech instead of choosing one, a custom race can take both advantages for 15 points, leaving 'em 5 to get some more advantages. Theortically you could decide not to get max flaws instead, but since creative will let you fix most/all disadvantages in midgame at no extra cost you SHOULD get as many flaws as you can get for "free" advantages.
19th Feb '17 10:01:56 AM Exxolon
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* In VideoGame/MasterOfOrion 2: Battle at Antares you had the trait picks: creative (get every tech at each tech level instead of only picking one, this logarithmically makes you more powerful if you remember to stop improving planets and make ships at some point) as well as the Unification government that grants a flat 50% bonus to food and production. Klackons (who naturally have Unification) are balanced because they are '''un'''creative and get a random tech instead of choosing one, a custom race can take both advantages for 15 points, leaving 'em 5 to get some more advantages. Theortically you could decide not to get max flaws instead, but since creative will let you fix most/all disadvantages in midgame at no extra cost you SHOULD get as many flaws as you can get for "free" advantages.

to:

* In VideoGame/MasterOfOrion ''VideoGame/MasterOfOrion'' 2: Battle at Antares you had the trait picks: creative (get every tech at each tech level instead of only picking one, this logarithmically makes you more powerful if you remember to stop improving planets and make ships at some point) as well as the Unification government that grants a flat 50% bonus to food and production. Klackons (who naturally have Unification) are balanced because they are '''un'''creative and get a random tech instead of choosing one, a custom race can take both advantages for 15 points, leaving 'em 5 to get some more advantages. Theortically you could decide not to get max flaws instead, but since creative will let you fix most/all disadvantages in midgame at no extra cost you SHOULD get as many flaws as you can get for "free" advantages.
19th Feb '17 9:59:58 AM Exxolon
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* Stagger Lock weapons in ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII]]''. They have higher than average stats in both Strength and Magic, but can't stagger enemies on their own. Fortunately, the other characters ''can'' stagger enemies. Plus the weapons can all synthesize the Random: Instant Chain skill. Most people usually give one to their main Commando, i.e. Fang or Snow, since they'll almost never stagger an enemy anyways and will always benefit from the damage boost.

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* Stagger Lock weapons in ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII]]''.''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII''. They have higher than average stats in both Strength and Magic, but can't stagger enemies on their own. Fortunately, the other characters ''can'' stagger enemies. Plus the weapons can all synthesize the Random: Instant Chain skill. Most people usually give one to their main Commando, i.e. Fang or Snow, since they'll almost never stagger an enemy anyways and will always benefit from the damage boost.
19th Feb '17 8:39:52 AM HighCrate
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*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and most three hit dice enemies. Sensible [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing it's use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.
*** Cavaliers and their subclass paladins had the unfair mechanic of being allowed to increase their ability scores through training - cavaliers could increase their strength, dexterity and constitution and paladins could increase charisma also. This meant that high level cavaliers and paladins were very likely to have all exceptional scores in those abilities. A complete case of FridgeLogic as there is no justifiable reason to allow this particular class to increase abilities as they levelled up while barring other classes from doing so.

to:

*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and most three hit dice enemies. Sensible [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing it's its use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.
*** Cavaliers and their subclass paladins had the unfair mechanic of being allowed to increase their ability scores through training - cavaliers could increase their strength, dexterity and constitution and paladins could increase charisma also. This meant that high level cavaliers and paladins were very likely to have all exceptional scores in those abilities. A complete case of FridgeLogic as there is no justifiable reason to allow this particular class to increase abilities as they levelled leveled up while barring other classes from doing so.
19th Feb '17 8:15:24 AM Exxolon
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*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and most three hit dice enemies. Sensible [[=GMs=]] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing it's use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.

to:

*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and most three hit dice enemies. Sensible [[=GMs=]] [=GMs=] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing it's use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.
19th Feb '17 8:14:32 AM Exxolon
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* ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' (Other editions):
** The original ''Unearthed Arcana'' sourcebook as published for the ''Advanced Dungeons & Dragons'' system had a number of these:
*** Weapon Specialization allowed fighters to specialize in a melee weapon to get a +1 bonus to hit and +2 damage on the weapon in exchange for giving up one of their initial four weapon proficiency slots and gave an extra attack every other round. Single handed weapons could be double specialized in for a +3/+3 bonus to hit and damage. Combine that with a decent strength score (it was usually possible to get an 18/xx exceptional strength score giving a minimum of +1/+3 to hit/damage) and every successful hit would be at least seven points of damage, enough to kill any standard one hit dice enemy 99% of the time[[note]]a one hit dice creature has one to eight hit points so only a maximum hit point creature has any chance to survive and it's only a one in eight chance with the normal choice of a longsword doing one to eight damage for this build[[/note]] and this option could (as written) be taken at first level - combining the increased damage with the better attack rate meant first level fighters could mow through enemies much faster than "vanilla" fighters. Bows were no better - at point blank range they got an extra +2 to hit and multiplied the arrow damage plus the specialization bonus by two - a sheaf arrow doing one to eight hit points of damage from a normal hit would do six to ''eighteen'' damage at that range - enough to drop most one hit dice enemies and on a lucky roll all two and most three hit dice enemies. Sensible [[=GMs=]] would bar first level fighters from taking specialization at all, only allowing it's use when they gained new proficiency slots at fourth level (and seventh level for double specialization) making it still useful but less immediately overpowered.
***Cavaliers and their subclass paladins had the unfair mechanic of being allowed to increase their ability scores through training - cavaliers could increase their strength, dexterity and constitution and paladins could increase charisma also. This meant that high level cavaliers and paladins were very likely to have all exceptional scores in those abilities. A complete case of FridgeLogic as there is no justifiable reason to allow this particular class to increase abilities as they levelled up while barring other classes from doing so.
30th Jan '17 9:44:29 PM Antronach
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* Stagger Lock weapons in ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII]]''. They have higher than average stats in both Strength and Magic, but can't stagger enemies on their own. Fortunately, the other characters ''can'' stagger enemies. Plus the weapons can all synthesize the Random: Instant Chain skill. Most people usually give one to their main Commando, i.e. Fang or Snow, since they'll almost never stagger an enemy anyways and will always benefit from the damage boost.
** Sazh's Pleiades Hi-Powers and their upgrade the Hyades Magnums. Phenomenal Strength stats, but no Magic and it drops you HP by a ton. However, Sazh has the second highest HP, so the HP drop isn't that much of an issue and if the player is using Sazh, they'll mostly be using his Blitz, which runs off of Strength. This makes him hit like a tank with very little downside.
25th Jan '17 9:05:35 AM Gosicrystal
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** Havel's Ring increases equipment load by 50%, which is equivalent to at least 20 levels of Endurance (more if your Endurance is high, [[OneStatToRuleThemAll which it usually will be]]) in a game where each level gives one stat point and most people get to the endgame at level 80. This is tremendously useful, because it lets you get better protection from armor in terms of damage and [[ImmuneToFlinching hitstun resistance]] without losing mobility or vice-versa. Most of the other rings not affecting magic have effects that are much more situational (like increasing a single defense by an amount heavier armor would almost cover for all types) or have significant drawbacks (like the Ring of Favor and protection, which boosts several stats but is LostForever if you take it off). Because of this and its early availability, the majority of players not focused entirely on magic have Havel's Ring on for most of their playthrough. Future installments in the series nerfed the amount increased to 10-20% (though partially because both allow four rings instead of two), on top of making armor itself less powerful.

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** Havel's Ring increases equipment load by 50%, which is equivalent to at least 20 levels of Endurance (more if your Endurance is high, [[OneStatToRuleThemAll which it usually will be]]) in a game where each level gives one stat point and most people get to the endgame at level 80. This is tremendously useful, because it lets you get better protection from armor in terms of damage and [[ImmuneToFlinching hitstun resistance]] without losing mobility or vice-versa. Most of the other rings not affecting magic have effects that are much more situational (like increasing a single defense by an amount heavier armor would almost cover for all types) or have significant drawbacks (like the Ring of Favor and protection, which boosts several stats but is LostForever [[PermanentlyMissableContent lost forever]] if you take it off). Because of this and its early availability, the majority of players not focused entirely on magic have Havel's Ring on for most of their playthrough. Future installments in the series nerfed the amount increased to 10-20% (though partially because both allow four rings instead of two), on top of making armor itself less powerful.
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