History Main / LossofIdentity

26th Jun '16 1:59:07 PM StFan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


!!Examples

to:

!!Examples
!!Examples:



[[folder:{{Anime}}[=/=]{{Manga}}]]

to:

[[folder:{{Anime}}[=/=]{{Manga}}]][[folder:Anime & Manga]]



* In ''Anime/SpiritedAway'', Yubaba binds people to her service by stealing their names and memories. Even Chihiro who was there for less than a day was already to beginning to forget her real name.



* [[spoiler:Oz Vessalius]] from PandoraHearts suffered an identity crisis very early in life after [[spoiler:his father completely rejected him]]. Being the [[CheerfulChild type of]] [[StepfordSmiler person]] that he is, he ''was'' able to eventually bounce back from that blow, [[BrokenHero although not entirely]]. As of Retrace LXXIV, however, [[spoiler:he seems to have lost his sense of purpose as well as any semblance of self-worth, all of which is the result of [[BreakTheCutie everything]] that [[MagnificentBastard Jack]] [[BreakThemByTalking did]] to him in the previous chapters.]]

to:

* [[spoiler:Oz Vessalius]] from PandoraHearts ''Manga/PandoraHearts'' suffered an identity crisis very early in life after [[spoiler:his father completely rejected him]]. Being the [[CheerfulChild type of]] [[StepfordSmiler person]] that he is, he ''was'' able to eventually bounce back from that blow, [[BrokenHero although not entirely]]. As of Retrace LXXIV, however, [[spoiler:he seems to have lost his sense of purpose as well as any semblance of self-worth, all of which is the result of [[BreakTheCutie everything]] that [[MagnificentBastard Jack]] [[BreakThemByTalking did]] to him in the previous chapters.]]



* ''{{Superman}}'' #296-299 had a storyline where Superman finds himself powerless as Clark Kent and spent most of it sticking to one identity while trying not to fall back on the other. In the end, he had come to a realization:
-->'''Superman:''' I tried to decide whether '''Clark''' or '''Superman''' is more important...and realized that to do away with '''one''' would be to '''kill''' half of myself--'''whoever''' I really am! So even '''before''' I got rid of my power problem, I'd decided...meek, mild-mannered '''Clark Kent''' will still walk the streets of the city, while up in the sky...the world will still watch and thrill to the sight of--'''A JOB FOR SUPERMAN!'''
* In Alan Moore's ''{{ComicBook/Miracleman}}'' Michael Moran often feels pathetic in comparison to his alternate form/second personality, the titular Miracleman. Over time he gets less and less time to spend as himself, creating the sense that Miracleman is slowly and inadvertently taking over their body. [[spoiler: In the end, Michael realizes that this is exactly what's happening and than proceeds to write up what is essentially a suicide note. He than walks to a nearby secluded hilltop and tearfully says his transformation word one last time; when the transformation happens, Michael is gone forever and Miracleman never returns to his mortal form again.]]

to:

* ''{{Superman}}'' ''ComicBook/{{Superman}}'' #296-299 had a storyline where Superman finds himself powerless as Clark Kent and spent most of it sticking to one identity while trying not to fall back on the other. In the end, he had come to a realization:
-->'''Superman:''' I tried to decide whether '''Clark''' or '''Superman''' is more important... and realized that to do away with '''one''' would be to '''kill''' half of myself--'''whoever''' myself -- '''whoever''' I really am! So even '''before''' I got rid of my power problem, I'd decided...decided... meek, mild-mannered '''Clark Kent''' will still walk the streets of the city, while up in the sky...sky... the world will still watch and thrill to the sight of--'''A of -- '''A JOB FOR SUPERMAN!'''
* In Alan Moore's ''{{ComicBook/Miracleman}}'' ''ComicBook/{{Miracleman}}'' Michael Moran often feels pathetic in comparison to his alternate form/second personality, the titular Miracleman. Over time he gets less and less time to spend as himself, creating the sense that Miracleman is slowly and inadvertently taking over their body. [[spoiler: In the end, Michael realizes that this is exactly what's happening and than proceeds to write up what is essentially a suicide note. He than walks to a nearby secluded hilltop and tearfully says his transformation word one last time; when the transformation happens, Michael is gone forever and Miracleman never returns to his mortal form again.]]



* While KnightsOfTheOldRepublic fanfic adores this trope, the Brotherhood of Shadow fan-made expansion pack cranks it UpToEleven with virtually ''every'' major character abandoning, obliterating, and adopting new identities. A Twi'lek named Channa Mae was found by Jedi Master Solomon, who nicknamed her "Matilda." When the Mandalorian Wars came, Channa Mae abandoned Solomon and the Jedi, as well as the nickname, to fight for Revan's cause. After the war, she abandoned even the Channa Mae identity to become "Shadow," Revan's assassin/aide/secret apprentice. [[spoiler: When Revan "died," Shadow found her Force connection severed and became Sera Degana, a crewman on a smuggling vessel. But, then Revan and Solomon come back into her life...]] Another example is Kobayashi, [[spoiler: who was once a Jedi apprentice, and lost his own Force connection after his master was killed]], then took on a new identity as a scout and smuggler. Solomon also abandons ''his'' identity [[spoiler: after being critically wounded and thought dead on Taris. His goal is to kill Revan - and Shadow - to avenge his former Padawan and his niece (who Channa had to kill in self-defense)]]. The Brotherhood of Shadow itself cements it all - they were an elite Sith order who were critical in repelling the Rakatan invasion of their world, seeing themselves as a single unit, not as individuals. [[spoiler: When the first Sith Lords betrayed them, the entire Brotherhood was locked in a mind-trap. Over the millennia, they truly did become a single mind - one looking for a host]].

to:

* While KnightsOfTheOldRepublic fanfic adores ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' fanfics adore this trope, the Brotherhood "Brotherhood of Shadow Shadow" fan-made expansion pack cranks it UpToEleven with virtually ''every'' major character abandoning, obliterating, and adopting new identities. A Twi'lek named Channa Mae was found by Jedi Master Solomon, who nicknamed her "Matilda." When the Mandalorian Wars came, Channa Mae abandoned Solomon and the Jedi, as well as the nickname, to fight for Revan's cause. After the war, she abandoned even the Channa Mae identity to become "Shadow," Revan's assassin/aide/secret apprentice. [[spoiler: When Revan "died," Shadow found her Force connection severed and became Sera Degana, a crewman on a smuggling vessel. But, then Revan and Solomon come back into her life...]] Another example is Kobayashi, [[spoiler: who was once a Jedi apprentice, and lost his own Force connection after his master was killed]], then took on a new identity as a scout and smuggler. Solomon also abandons ''his'' identity [[spoiler: after being critically wounded and thought dead on Taris. His goal is to kill Revan - and Shadow - -- to avenge his former Padawan and his niece (who Channa had to kill in self-defense)]]. The Brotherhood of Shadow itself cements it all - -- they were an elite Sith order who were critical in repelling the Rakatan invasion of their world, seeing themselves as a single unit, not as individuals. [[spoiler: When the first Sith Lords betrayed them, the entire Brotherhood was locked in a mind-trap. Over the millennia, they truly did become a single mind - one looking for a host]].



[[folder:Film]]

to:

[[folder:Film]][[folder:Films -- Animation]]
* In ''Anime/SpiritedAway'', Yubaba binds people to her service by stealing their names and memories. Even Chihiro, who is there for less than a day already begins to forget her real name.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]



* In the scifi film Eleven, by Makodap, the main character Pete Baxter attempts to leave a future hotel without paying his bill. Before he can leave, a woman called miss Stevens gives him a gift of scotch, upon drinking it and phoning for call girl, Pete is [[PainfulTransformation transformed]] into the woman he ordered, and slowly starts to loose his mind, becomming her mentally.

to:

* In the scifi film Eleven, ''Eleven'', by Makodap, the main character Pete Baxter attempts to leave a future hotel without paying his bill. Before he can leave, a woman called miss Stevens gives him a gift of scotch, upon drinking it and phoning for call girl, Pete is [[PainfulTransformation transformed]] into the woman he ordered, and slowly starts to loose his mind, becomming her mentally.







[[folder:Live Action TV]]

to:

[[folder:Live Action [[folder:Live-Action TV]]



* In a different vein, the TV series ''NowhereMan'' had as its title character a man whose existence has been erased.

to:

* In a different vein, the TV series ''NowhereMan'' ''Series/NowhereMan'' had as its title character a man whose existence has been erased.



[[folder:Religion]]
* According to reincarnation doctrine, deceased souls are brought back to life in another body... but that doesn't mean they come back as a whole person or animal with any memories intact.
** The Dalai Lama is found each time by placing a young child in front of a wide selection of toys; he'll play with the same ones every time. So something is kept intact (then again, the Lama is said to be able to willingly decide if he reincarnates or not, so there's a belief that he has more control over this than a more less enlightened person).

to:

[[folder:Religion]]
[[folder:Myths & Religion]]
* According to reincarnation doctrine, deceased souls are brought back to life in another body... but that doesn't mean they come back as a whole person or animal with any memories intact.
**
intact. The Dalai Lama is found each time by placing a young child in front of a wide selection of toys; he'll play with the same ones every time. So something is kept intact (then again, the Lama is said to be able to willingly decide if he reincarnates or not, so there's a belief that he has more control over this than a more less enlightened person).



[[folder:Tabletop RPG]]
* In TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons, getting bitten by an Ophidian (snake-like creatures commonly found as slaves of the evil serpentine Yuan-ti) results in a not-so-pretty transformation process. After two weeks, the victim fully transforms into another Ophidian, with no memory of its previous existence.

to:

[[folder:Tabletop RPG]]
Games]]
* In TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons, getting ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'':
** Getting
bitten by an Ophidian (snake-like creatures commonly found as slaves of the evil serpentine Yuan-ti) results in a not-so-pretty transformation process. After two weeks, the victim fully transforms into another Ophidian, with no memory of its previous existence.



** When dealing with undead, it tends to vary depending on the type. A mindless undead like a zombie is just an empty body, and with the proper magic a person could be resurrected with a new body that exists alongside the zombie, since the soul left the body upon death. A vampire on the other hand must be slain to bring back the person - the vampire has the memories and personality of the original, but is twisted into evil and the person brought back will be the original again.
* The TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness uses this often as an example of what happens when your KarmaMeter bottoms out.

to:

** When dealing with undead, it tends to vary depending on the type. A mindless undead like a zombie is just an empty body, and with the proper magic a person could be resurrected with a new body that exists alongside the zombie, since the soul left the body upon death. A vampire on the other hand must be slain to bring back the person - -- the vampire has the memories and personality of the original, but is twisted into evil and the person brought back will be the original again.
* The TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness ''TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness'' uses this often as an example of what happens when your KarmaMeter bottoms out.



* TabletopGame/UnknownArmies features a SanityMeter with five separate variables. Self represents approaching this trope from one of two ways - either losing yourself in utter cynicism until you'd betray your old ideas ("Getting hardened,") or else taking so many blows to your sense of self you are just a wreck ("failed checks.") In either case, maxing out either end of this meter means there's virtually no "you" left in there.

to:

* TabletopGame/UnknownArmies ''TabletopGame/UnknownArmies'' features a SanityMeter with five separate variables. Self represents approaching this trope from one of two ways - either losing yourself in utter cynicism until you'd betray your old ideas ("Getting hardened,") or else taking so many blows to your sense of self you are just a wreck ("failed checks.") In either case, maxing out either end of this meter means there's virtually no "you" left in there.



* In ''{{Bionicle}}'', the plan of the BigBad Makuta Teridax involved trapping the entire Matoran population of Metru Nui into metal spheres, which, over time, deteriorated their physical bodies and wiped their memories clean. The Turaga elders had to reteach everything to them, however one Matoran, Ahkmou, accidentally ended up with Teridax himself, who proceeded to forge a new, evil identity for him.

to:

* In ''{{Bionicle}}'', the ''Toys/{{Bionicle}}'':
** The
plan of the BigBad Makuta Teridax involved trapping the entire Matoran population of Metru Nui into metal spheres, which, over time, deteriorated their physical bodies and wiped their memories clean. The Turaga elders had to reteach everything to them, however one Matoran, Ahkmou, accidentally ended up with Teridax himself, who proceeded to forge a new, evil identity for him.



* [[VideoGame/LegacyOfKain Raziel]] goes through a fair amount of this. Wraith!Raziel (who [[AmnesiacDissonance doesn't remember his mortal life]] at all, just his vampiric and wraithly existences) meets Sarafan!Raziel and learns that his mortal self is a [[ColdBloodedTorture Sadistic]], [[HolierThanThou self righteous]] KnightTemplar douchebag. Vampire!Raziel was still a KnightTemplar but working for Kain instead of the Sarafan. Wraith!Raziel is still a KnightTemplar at points, but he's the poster boy for UnwittingPawn and CharacterDevelopment has left him with higher moral standards than his human or even vampiric self. He even calls his [[IHatePastMe former human self]] out [[EvenEvilHasStandards for his sadism]], tells him "[[ThatManIsDead I renounce you]]" and then kills him(self?). [[YourHeadAsplode Ouch]].
--> '''Human Raziel:''' "You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?"
--> '''Wraith Raziel:''' "[[{{Irony}} Apparently I am...]]"

to:

* [[VideoGame/LegacyOfKain Raziel]] ''VideoGame/LegacyOfKain'': Raziel goes through a fair amount of this. Wraith!Raziel Wraith Raziel (who [[AmnesiacDissonance doesn't remember his mortal life]] at all, just his vampiric and wraithly existences) meets Sarafan!Raziel Sarafan Raziel and learns that his mortal self is a [[ColdBloodedTorture Sadistic]], [[HolierThanThou self righteous]] KnightTemplar douchebag. Vampire!Raziel was still a KnightTemplar but working for Kain instead of the Sarafan. Wraith!Raziel is still a KnightTemplar at points, but he's the poster boy for UnwittingPawn and CharacterDevelopment has left him with higher moral standards than his human or even vampiric self. He even calls his [[IHatePastMe former human self]] out [[EvenEvilHasStandards for his sadism]], tells him "[[ThatManIsDead I renounce you]]" and then kills him(self?). [[YourHeadAsplode Ouch]].
--> '''Human -->'''Human Raziel:''' "You're You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?"
-->
you?\\
'''Wraith Raziel:''' "[[{{Irony}} [[{{Irony}} Apparently I am...]]"]]



* In ''ArcanaMagi'', this happens to Alysia. To the point that she believes her new identity IS her real identity, even though she still has some of her real original memories intact.
* A common fate of victims in TheSlenderManMythos.

to:

* In ''ArcanaMagi'', ''Literature/ArcanaMagi'', this happens to Alysia. To the point that she believes her new identity IS her real identity, even though she still has some of her real original memories intact.
* A common fate of victims in TheSlenderManMythos.Franchise/TheSlenderManMythos.






* ''ComicStrip/{{Popeye}}'' has one short where Olive Oyl invites Popeye over for a good meal; Wimpy, ever the BigEater, disguises himself as Popeye to get the food himself. Despite the LatexPerfection of the disguise, he still manages to come off as an OddballDoppelganger, yet Olive is fooled, and Popeye himself suddenly laments the possibility that he is not himself.
* In DonHertzfeldt's far-future [[TheSimpsons Simpsons]] [[CouchGag/{{TheSimpsons}} couch gag]], the design of the characters and the show changes so radically that by the year 10,535 the Simpson family has been reduced to a disturbing collection of caricatured mutants that can only sputter broken catchphrases and hock merchandise

to:

* ''ComicStrip/{{Popeye}}'' ''WesternAnimation/{{Popeye}}'' has one short where Olive Oyl invites Popeye over for a good meal; Wimpy, ever the BigEater, disguises himself as Popeye to get the food himself. Despite the LatexPerfection of the disguise, he still manages to come off as an OddballDoppelganger, yet Olive is fooled, and Popeye himself suddenly laments the possibility that he is not himself.
* ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons'' In DonHertzfeldt's Creator/DonHertzfeldt's far-future [[TheSimpsons Simpsons]] [[CouchGag/{{TheSimpsons}} [[CouchGag/TheSimpsons couch gag]], the design of the characters and the show changes so radically that by the year 10,535 the Simpson family has been reduced to a disturbing collection of caricatured mutants that can only sputter broken catchphrases and hock merchandise




[[folder:Tropes]]
* The MindManipulation tropes page would count, since it's about messing with people's loyalties and turning them against their friends and families.
[[/folder]]




%% Stop putting examples down here! They do not go here! Please put examples in their respective sections above.

to:

\n%% Stop putting examples down here! They do not go here! Please put examples in their respective sections above.above.
----
31st May '16 4:13:59 AM Doug86
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In AndreNorton's ''[[Literature/{{Warlock}} Forerunner Foray]]'', Ziantha faces "erasure" if the Patrol catches her.

to:

* In AndreNorton's Creator/AndreNorton's ''[[Literature/{{Warlock}} Forerunner Foray]]'', Ziantha faces "erasure" if the Patrol catches her.
19th May '16 11:05:34 PM WillBGood
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** When he has, thanks to AmnesiacDissosance, forged a new life, [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-03-14 it perplexes Seymour, who asks who he is.]]

to:

** When he has, thanks to AmnesiacDissosance, AmnesiacDissonance, forged a new life, [[http://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2013-03-14 it perplexes Seymour, who asks who he is.]]
19th May '16 1:57:28 PM Willbyr
Is there an issue? Send a Message





* Sasami of ''TenchiMuyo'' had this. After a major fall when Ryoko invaded Jurai, she was rescued by Tsunami and bonded with her. For over 700 years, she wanted to tell someone the truth, that she was nothing more than a vessel and that the real Sasami was dead, but always stopped because she was afraid that if she did, they'd abandon her. Thanks to a mistake on her part, the others learn the truth, but quickly reassure her that they'd still love her. However, when Sasami passes out from all of the excitement does Tsunami reveal the truth - she never died that day. The trauma from the fall and rescue caused her to think that. She reassures everyone that when Sasami's older and can handle the truth, she'll learn it.

to:

* Sasami of ''TenchiMuyo'' ''Anime/TenchiMuyo'' had this. After a major fall when Ryoko invaded Jurai, she was rescued by Tsunami and bonded with her. For over 700 years, she wanted to tell someone the truth, that she was nothing more than a vessel and that the real Sasami was dead, but always stopped because she was afraid that if she did, they'd abandon her. Thanks to a mistake on her part, the others learn the truth, but quickly reassure her that they'd still love her. However, when Sasami passes out from all of the excitement does Tsunami reveal the truth - she never died that day. The trauma from the fall and rescue caused her to think that. She reassures everyone that when Sasami's older and can handle the truth, she'll learn it.
17th May '16 12:21:22 PM GlassRain
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''Webcomic/AwfulHospital'': Extensive use of someone else's identification can [[http://www.bogleech.com/awfulhospital/472.html apparently]] lead to this.
21st Apr '16 1:56:59 PM PistolsAtDawn
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Not to be confused with an AssimilationPlot, in which your identity is subsumed into a HiveMind. Compare SplitPersonalityMerge, where two personalities become one, and MentalFusion, where separate minds briefly become one. See also AmnesiacLover, who doesn't know how to love back after becoming an amnesiac. GrandTheftMe can happen if said identity was stolen. Living in a society where you can't have a real identity is IndividualityIsIllegal. See also QuestForIdentity. Compare LostInCharacter, where an actor becomes lost in a role.

to:

Not to be confused with an AssimilationPlot, in which your identity is subsumed into a HiveMind. Compare SplitPersonalityMerge, where two personalities become one, and MentalFusion, where separate minds briefly become one. See also AmnesiacLover, who doesn't know how to love back after becoming an amnesiac. GrandTheftMe can happen if said identity was stolen. Living in a society where you can't have a real identity is IndividualityIsIllegal. See also QuestForIdentity. Compare LostInCharacter, where an actor becomes lost in a role. If this is a characters a backstory it might be PreInsanityReveal.
1st Apr '16 8:46:56 AM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Dementors essentially do this to their victims in ''Literature/HarryPotter'' - just being near them for a few minutes is enough to [[EmotionEater drain the happiness out of you]], and prolonged exposure leads to depression and the loss of will to live. Receiving a Dementor's "kiss", which steals your soul and leaves you with no sense of self at all, is seen as a FateWorseThanDeath.
** Memory charms are also a means of rewriting a person's memories, and thus (in extreme cases) creating new identities for them.
* Intercision in ''HisDarkMaterials'' separates a person from their daemon. At best this means they become incurious and weak-willed, at worst it means they hang around ghoulishly and then die.

to:

* ''Literature/HarryPotter'':
**
Dementors essentially do this to their victims in ''Literature/HarryPotter'' - just victims. Just being near them for a few minutes is enough to [[EmotionEater drain the happiness out of you]], and prolonged exposure leads to depression and the loss of will to live. Receiving a Dementor's "kiss", which steals your soul and leaves you with no sense of self at all, is seen as a FateWorseThanDeath.
** Memory charms are also a means of rewriting a person's memories, and thus (in extreme cases) creating new identities for them.
* ''HisDarkMaterials'': Intercision in ''HisDarkMaterials'' separates a person from their daemon. At best this means they become incurious and weak-willed, and at worst it means they hang around ghoulishly and then die.




to:

*''Literature/JourneyToChaos'': Mana mutation scrambled [[spoiler: Eric's]] mind and even after recovering from it he feels like a different person. Kallen consoles him by saying that everyone's identity changes as they grow older, and that his mutation did less to change him fundamentally than he thinks.

28th Mar '16 6:59:51 AM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* A related philosophical question is called "The Ship of Theseus": if each plank in the ship is replaced when it starts to rot, and over time one-by-one every single plank is replaced, at what point (if ever) does it stop being the same ship?
** The Ship of Theseus is also known as George Washington's axe (my grandpa replaced the handle, and my father replaced the head).
*** There's a Kerryman joke to that effect: a Kerryman boasts that he's had the same axe for the past fifty years - with the handle and head replaced, respectively, five and eight times.
** Specifically, this trope is about the [[ContemplateOurNavels philosophical problem]] of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_%28philosophy%29 personal identity]]. The general notion is that people stay more or less the same throughout their lives, ''despite'' changes to their bodies (if these changes do not drastically change the way the body functions). Just ''what'' makes several iterations the same person, is central to the debate. The debate itself is notorious for the heavy use of [[AppliedPhlebotinum science-fiction]] examples, such as:
*** [[TeleportersAndTransporters Teletransportation]]: if a [[Franchise/StarTrek teleporter]] dematerialises you and reconstructs you elsewhere, are the iterations the same person? What if the original is never deconstructed, but a [[AlternateSelf duplicate]] is made?
*** [[BrainInAJar Brain]] and/or [[FreakyFridayFlip mind]]-transplants: are you still the same person when you have a completely different body?
** Not so much Philosophy but a real life example that I personally believe answers this question somewhat, in "Peopleware" a book about managing programmers a case study was made of "the black team". The black team had a strong cultural identity that survived after every original member had left. The second generation picked it up from the first, the third picked it up from the second.
** Hey, this was used in ''Discworld/TheFifthElephant'' with the hereditary axe. Sometimes the handle needs to be replaced, sometimes the head, but it's still the hereditary axe.
*** And what if the old head, rather than being thrown out entirely, is reforged into a new head for a new axe? Is that ''also'' the hereditary axe?
** Keep in mind this also applies to people. Your entire body is completely replaced once per decade, give or take.
*** In addition, our particles are in constant flux. On the lowest observable levels, we aren't the same from one ''nanosecond'' to the next.
*** Even with the cells that stick around for a few years, the atoms that make up the cell won't be the same from one month to the next. Your entire body is only a channel for matter, all the atoms in your body won't be there within a few months, and as creepy as it is a lot of them will probably be in other peoples bodies and vice versa.
*** But keep in mind (no pun intended) that essentially going down to the molecular level all that makes you "you" is your DNA, the genetic blueprints and instructions stored within your cells. Individual atoms are not any different from each other, able to give perfect transfers of kinetic energy during collisions. The only means of differentiation at that level is the way the atoms assemble; that is what makes you "you".
*** This isn't quite the case - epigenetics is a massive field of things necessary for DNA alone to create a functional cell, and environmental effects always affect the organism during development. Case in point, picture how a fetus develops differently if the mother drinks heavily during pregnancy. Or if she's undernourished, lacks critical vitamins, or any of the other horrible things that can happen to you long after sperm and egg meet.
*** In ''Literature/TheWonderfulWizardOfOz'' the Tin Woodman got his body replaced one piece at a time, including his head, when his enchanted axe cut it off. But since it was one piece at a time and not all at once, "he" is still Nick Chopper (his name pre-tinning) rather than some entirely new being.
*** On the other hand, in ''The Tin Woodman of Oz,'' the Tin Woodman meets his former head in a cupboard of the smith who made his tin body, and they have a not-very-interesting (or friendly) conversation. Who is the real Nick Chopper?
*** In a gross oversimplification hindered by linguistic equivocations, traditions descended from the Vedas such as Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism solve this problem by seeing self not as a permanent thing, but more like a moving wave. How can it be the same wave when no molecule of water is a part of it for long? Simple: the wave is ''organized motion through time.'' Self is usually described as unreal, but best viewed as action-through-time. A deeper discussion of this would probably be way past the scope of this page.
** Creator/DouglasAdams struggled with this when he visited Japan during ''Last Chance to See'' and notes that an important historical building looks far too new. A local explains that the original burnt down, and was rebuilt from all new materials (and not for the first time). Adams asks how it's even the same building, and is told "It's always the same building" as if the question is crazy. He concludes that ''someone'' is missing the point, but that it may well be him.

to:

* A related philosophical question is called "The Ship of Theseus": if each plank in the ship is replaced when it starts to rot, and over time one-by-one every single plank is replaced, at what point (if ever) does it stop being the same ship?
** The Ship of Theseus
ship? [[note]] This is also known as George Washington's axe (my grandpa replaced the handle, and my father replaced the head).
*** There's a
head). Furthermore, there's Kerryman joke to that effect: a Kerryman boasts that he's had the same axe for the past fifty years - with the handle and head replaced, respectively, five and eight times.
**
times. [[/note]] Specifically, this trope is about the [[ContemplateOurNavels philosophical problem]] of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_%28philosophy%29 personal identity]]. The general notion is that people stay more or less the same throughout their lives, ''despite'' changes to their bodies (if these changes do not drastically change the way the body functions). Just ''what'' makes several iterations the same person, is central to the debate. The debate itself is notorious for the heavy use of [[AppliedPhlebotinum science-fiction]] examples, such as:
*** ** [[TeleportersAndTransporters Teletransportation]]: if a [[Franchise/StarTrek teleporter]] dematerialises you and reconstructs you elsewhere, are the iterations the same person? What if the original is never deconstructed, but a [[AlternateSelf duplicate]] is made?
*** ** [[BrainInAJar Brain]] and/or [[FreakyFridayFlip mind]]-transplants: are you still the same person when you have a completely different body?
** Not so much Philosophy but a real life example that I personally believe answers this question somewhat, in "Peopleware" a book about managing programmers a case study was made of "the black team". The black team had a strong cultural identity that survived after every original member had left. The second generation picked it up from the first, the third picked it up from the second.
** Hey, this was used in ''Discworld/TheFifthElephant'' with the hereditary axe. Sometimes the handle needs to be replaced, sometimes the head, but it's still the hereditary axe.
*** And what if the old head, rather than being thrown out entirely, is reforged into a new head for a new axe? Is that ''also'' the hereditary axe?
** Keep in mind this also applies to people. Your entire body is completely replaced once per decade, give or take.
*** In addition, our particles are in constant flux. On the lowest observable levels, we aren't the same from one ''nanosecond'' to the next.
*** Even with the cells that stick around for a few years, the atoms that make up the cell won't be the same from one month to the next. Your entire body is only a channel for matter, all the atoms in your body won't be there within a few months, and as creepy as it is a lot of them will probably be in other peoples bodies and vice versa.
*** But keep in mind (no pun intended) that essentially going down to the molecular level all that makes you "you" is your DNA, the genetic blueprints and instructions stored within your cells. Individual atoms are not any different from each other, able to give perfect transfers of kinetic energy during collisions. The only means of differentiation at that level is the way the atoms assemble; that is what makes you "you".
*** This isn't quite the case - epigenetics is a massive field of things necessary for DNA alone to create a functional cell, and environmental effects always affect the organism during development. Case in point, picture how a fetus develops differently if the mother drinks heavily during pregnancy. Or if she's undernourished, lacks critical vitamins, or any of the other horrible things that can happen to you long after sperm and egg meet.
*** In ''Literature/TheWonderfulWizardOfOz'' the Tin Woodman got his body replaced one piece at a time, including his head, when his enchanted axe cut it off. But since it was one piece at a time and not all at once, "he" is still Nick Chopper (his name pre-tinning) rather than some entirely new being.
*** On the other hand, in ''The Tin Woodman of Oz,'' the Tin Woodman meets his former head in a cupboard of the smith who made his tin body, and they have a not-very-interesting (or friendly) conversation. Who is the real Nick Chopper?
*** In a gross oversimplification hindered by linguistic equivocations, traditions descended from the Vedas such as Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism solve this problem by seeing self not as a permanent thing, but more like a moving wave. How can it be the same wave when no molecule of water is a part of it for long? Simple: the wave is ''organized motion through time.'' Self is usually described as unreal, but best viewed as action-through-time. A deeper discussion of this would probably be way past the scope of this page.
** Creator/DouglasAdams struggled with this when he visited Japan during ''Last Chance to See'' and notes that an important historical building looks far too new. A local explains that the original burnt down, and was rebuilt from all new materials (and not for the first time). Adams asks how it's even the same building, and is told "It's always the same building" as if the question is crazy. He concludes that ''someone'' is missing the point, but that it may well be him.
body?
20th Mar '16 12:41:04 AM MetaFour
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Music/DanielAmos: The album ''Music/VoxHumana'' has a short story in the liner notes where the narrator reaches an unusual conclusion: loss of identity comes not from changing too much, but from [[StaticCharacter the complete lack of change]].
-->The person who doesn't learn and does not act, I thought, disintegrates within. It is the chaos of growth, of taking new forms, that is the shield against those who spend all their time earning, spending and amusing themselves.
16th Mar '16 12:41:51 AM Gonzool
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/PaperMarioTheThousandYearDoor'': [[spoiler:Mario gets his identity and body stolen in the middle of a boss-fight by a Duplight-Ghost called "Doopliss". It seems that this even rendered him unable of pronouncing the word "Mario", since Vivian can't understand his answer when she asks him for his name.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/PaperMarioTheThousandYearDoor'': [[spoiler:Mario gets his identity and body stolen in the middle of a boss-fight boss fight by a Duplight-Ghost Duplighost called "Doopliss". It seems that this even rendered him unable of pronouncing the word "Mario", since Vivian can't understand his answer when she asks him for his name.]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 267. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.LossofIdentity