History Main / LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards

17th Jun '17 12:47:13 PM infernape612
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*** In this game, Magic stats is used for both Magical Offense and Defense, in a game where most physical units has a little amount of Magic. Although most enemies in the game are physical combatants, this change also affect items such as M Up/Barrier Staff and Holy Water, which increases Magic by 7.
*** The importance of 1-2 Range attack is relatively higher than every other game in the series, thanks to the relative lack of common and reliable 1~2 range weapons outside of tomes, with magic swords being extremely rare (there are only about 7 of them in the entire game - and two of them, the Light and Earth swords, can only be used by Lief and Nanna respectively), Javelins - though somewhat common - are impractical to use indoors due to the extremely limited number of indoor lance users (and many of the chapters are indoors), and lastly - the inaccurate and relatively rare Hand Axe. Low ranked tomes can be acquired by stealing it from enemy mages or taking it from captured enemy mages, and is relatively easier to steal with your thieves.
*** Sages has a ridiculous Promotion Bonus that increased Magic by 5, and Skill by 5, Speed by 6, and Defense by 4. This is a very sizable boost in this game due to the lower overall stat {{Cap}}s in comparison to the other games in the series (Just 20 in Thracia 776 - compared to 25~30 in other titles). In fact, because of these boosts, players often recommend promoting any and all Sage-capable units as soon as you're able to.
*** Staves are [[GameBreaker poorly balanced]]. Status Staves has infinite range, are very accurate, and lasts throughout the entire stage(or until it is cured with a Restore Staff), Physic can heal any allied unit in the map, Fortify heals every allied unit in the map, and the flexibility of Warp, Rewarp, and Rescue more than makes up for the fact that they can miss. There was a saying that "there are only two kinds of units in [=FE5=] lategame: those that can use staves and have high magic, and those that can't".
** Played straight in ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' due to the Nosferatu tome and the pair up system. While this tome can still be overpowered in all games that has it, they were limited in availability and mages could still be destroyed by the higher Speed capped fighters. In ''Awakening'' though, the infinite amount of Nosferatu tomes, the player-only pair-up system, and the fact that tomes have a range of 1-2 made Dark Mages complete gamebreakers.

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*** In this game, the Magic stats stat is used for both Magical Offense and Defense, in a game where most physical units has have a little amount bit of Magic. Although most enemies in the game are physical combatants, this change also affect items such as M Up/Barrier Staff and Holy Water, which increases Magic by 7.
*** The importance of 1-2 Range attack is relatively higher than every other game in the series, thanks to the relative lack of common and reliable 1~2 range weapons outside of tomes, with magic swords being extremely rare (there are only about 7 of them in the entire game - and two of them, the Light and Earth swords, can only be used by Lief and Nanna respectively), Javelins - though somewhat common - are impractical to use indoors due to the extremely limited number of indoor lance users (and many of the chapters are indoors), and lastly - the inaccurate and relatively rare Hand Axe. Low ranked tomes can be acquired by stealing it from enemy mages or taking it from captured enemy mages, and is are relatively easier to steal with your thieves.
*** Sages has have a ridiculous Promotion Bonus that increased increases Magic by 5, and Skill by 5, Speed by 6, and Defense by 4. This is a very sizable boost in this game due to the lower overall stat {{Cap}}s in comparison to the other games in the series (Just 20 in Thracia 776 - compared to 25~30 in other titles). In fact, because of these boosts, players often recommend promoting any and all Sage-capable units as soon as you're able to.
*** Staves are [[GameBreaker poorly balanced]]. Status Staves has staves have infinite range, are very accurate, and lasts last throughout the entire stage(or stage (or until it is they are cured with a Restore Staff), Physic can heal any allied unit in the map, Fortify heals every allied unit in the map, and the flexibility of Warp, Rewarp, and Rescue more than makes up for the fact that they can miss. There was a saying that "there are only two kinds of units in [=FE5=] lategame: those that can use staves and have high magic, and those that can't".
** Played straight in ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' due to the Nosferatu tome and the pair up system. While this tome can still be overpowered in all games that has have it, they were limited in availability and mages could still be destroyed by the higher Speed capped fighters. In ''Awakening'' though, the infinite amount of Nosferatu tomes, the player-only pair-up system, and the fact that tomes have a range of 1-2 made Dark Mages complete gamebreakers.
17th Jun '17 12:44:39 PM infernape612
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** ''Radiant Dawn'', and to a extent the previous game, averts this. Most enemies, even ''[[MightyGlacier Knights]]'', have decent resistance and mages have been further {{nerf}}ed from their already weak ''Path of Radiance'' selves by losing their good speed. The extra damage they deal to [[KemonoMimi Laguz]] becomes a borderline UselessItem as they rarely face any. To top it off, they retain their downsides, such as weapons with low Might and having less Movement that regular physical classes. Even worse, few enemies are mages, making their high resistance worthless. (For what little it matters, several physical units on your team have good resistance but nothing to use it against.)
** Played Straight in ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemJugdral Thracia 776]], for a lot of reasons:

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** ''Radiant Dawn'', ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemRadiantDawn Radiant Dawn]]'', and to a lesser extent the previous game, ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemPathOfRadiance Path of Radiance]]'', averts this. Most enemies, even ''[[MightyGlacier Knights]]'', have decent resistance and mages have been further {{nerf}}ed from their already weak ''Path of Radiance'' selves by losing their good speed. The extra damage they deal to [[KemonoMimi Laguz]] becomes a borderline UselessItem as they rarely face any. To top it off, they retain their downsides, such as weapons with low Might and having less Movement that regular physical classes. Even worse, few enemies are mages, making their high resistance worthless. (For what little it matters, several physical units on your team have good resistance but nothing to use it against.)
** Played Straight straight in ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemJugdral ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemThracia776 Thracia 776]], 776]]'', for a lot of reasons:
11th Jun '17 9:47:25 AM Kazmahu
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** To put it simply, in order for a warrior to stand any chance at all in the Nasuverse, they need some Wizard skills to beef themselves up - even the most martial-oriented have weapons or abilities that are physical in application but magical in nature. Across the whole Fate/ series, there's been exactly one warrior BadassNormal enough to score a Heroic Servant kill, and it came with several caveats: [[spoiler:his victim was throttled by an inept Master, and his technique relied on its atypical forms to be unpredictable. As Rin notes after an encounter with him, the human body can only move in so many ways; he beat them once, but he no long has any advantage.]]
7th Jun '17 9:45:22 PM Theriocephalus
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** The actual point at which wizards overtake fighters is somewhere between level one (when they get ''color spray'') and level five (when they get ''flight'', ''fireball'' and ''haste''), depending on who you ask. Either way, at low levels attack spells are both too weak and too few, the main advantages are in buff, incapacitation, area denial or utility magic. It also depends on the type of encounter -- one strong opponent or many weaklings.
*** Prior to the spell being completely gutted in 3.5, haste deserves special mention, because it made the wizard progression almost literally exponential by doubling the number of actions that could be taken in a given period of time... "actions" including other spells, while warriors could at best toss another attack out and rogues could only toss out another, much weaker, attack. The difference between one spell and two spells in a round was the most stark for non-damage casters, being the difference between casting a group sleep spell and hoping it mostly worked and casting the spell twice for all-but-guaranteed helpless enemies waiting passively to be murdered.

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** The actual point at which wizards overtake fighters is somewhere between level one (when they get ''color spray'') and level five (when they get ''flight'', ''fireball'' and ''haste''), depending on who you ask. Either way, at low levels attack spells are both too weak and too few, the main advantages are in buff, incapacitation, area denial or utility magic. It also depends on the type of encounter -- one strong opponent or many weaklings.
***
weaklings. Prior to the spell being completely gutted in 3.5, haste deserves special mention, because it made the wizard progression almost literally exponential by doubling the number of actions that could be taken in a given period of time... time, "actions" including other spells, while warriors could at best toss another attack out and rogues could only toss out another, much weaker, attack. The difference between one spell and two spells in a round was the most stark for non-damage casters, being the difference between casting a group sleep spell and hoping it mostly worked and casting the spell twice for all-but-guaranteed helpless enemies waiting passively to be murdered.



** Originally, the intent of ''D&D'' was that the common man was a Fighter and he would be more powerful at low level, but someone who performed magic (a Cleric or Magic-User) would make sacrifices at low level to become more powerful at high level. But this was further balanced by Fighters getting the best followers at high level (and at the time, henchmen were quite valuable even if they were low-level), and because Fighters were the only ones who could use magic swords. The majority (60%+) of magic swords were intelligent and carried special spell-like powers. Since a Fighter was the only one who could wield one, those found in treasure would usually end up in his hands. This limited spell-like ability made up for the Fighter having no spells of his own.

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** Originally, the intent of idea behind ''D&D'' was that the common man was a Fighter fighter and he would be more powerful at low level, levels, but someone who performed magic (a Cleric cleric or Magic-User) a magic-user) would make sacrifices at low level levels to become more powerful at high level. But this levels. This was further balanced by Fighters fighters getting the best followers at high level levels (and at the time, henchmen were quite valuable even if they were low-level), and because Fighters were by fighters being the only ones who could use magic swords. The majority (60%+) of magic swords were intelligent and carried special spell-like powers. Since a Fighter fighter was the only one who could wield one, those found in treasure would usually end up in his hands. This limited spell-like ability made up for the Fighter fighter having no spells of his own.



** It is notable that throughout AD&D all the way to D&D 3.5, a solid majority of non-player characters higher than 20th level were wizards. Indeed, careful scrutiny of various game books reveals that they outnumber similarly high-level [=NPCs=] from all other classes ''combined''.

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** It is notable that throughout from AD&D all the way to D&D 3.5, a solid majority of non-player characters higher than 20th level were wizards. Indeed, careful scrutiny of various game books reveals that they outnumber similarly high-level [=NPCs=] from all other classes ''combined''.



** In 3rd Edition and 3.5, this applies to spellcasting classes in general with a sufficiently large and varied spell list. Clerics and Druids in particular led to the coining of the phrase "[=CoDzilla=]" (Cleric-or-Druid-zilla), as if a powergamer looks at the class the right way, they see class ''features'' more powerful than entire other classes.

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** In 3rd Edition and 3.5, this applies to spellcasting classes in general with a sufficiently large and varied spell list. Clerics and Druids in particular led to the coining of the phrase "[=CoDzilla=]" (Cleric-or-Druid-zilla), as as, if a powergamer looks at the class the right way, they see class ''features'' more powerful than entire other classes.
7th Jun '17 7:24:06 PM nombretomado
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* Mainly true for mutants in the WhateleyUniverse: while the FlyingBrick and LightningBruiser need no training to be a serious threat, most of the Wizard class mutants need years of schooling to learn how to collect and save Essence, how to craft spells, etc. But Fey is a good example of a Wizard mutant with years (in her case, millennia) of training, and she can crush most physical threats if she sees them coming.

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* Mainly true for mutants in the WhateleyUniverse: Literature/WhateleyUniverse: while the FlyingBrick and LightningBruiser need no training to be a serious threat, most of the Wizard class mutants need years of schooling to learn how to collect and save Essence, how to craft spells, etc. But Fey is a good example of a Wizard mutant with years (in her case, millennia) of training, and she can crush most physical threats if she sees them coming.
21st May '17 6:29:48 PM nombretomado
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* A very similar dynamic occurs in the web serial ''{{Worm}}'' with Tinkers- Capes with "Mad Scientist" as a superpower. Since Tinkers are able to continue building new gear an improving it, essentially giving themselves new powers as they go, they have the potential to be the most versatile capes and can often defeat any threat they are able to prepare for. There are a handful of GameBreaker capes that are more powerful than any tinker but the tinker classification is generally recognized as the best force multiplier for any super team.

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* A very similar dynamic occurs in the web serial ''{{Worm}}'' ''Literature/{{Worm}}'' with Tinkers- Capes with "Mad Scientist" as a superpower. Since Tinkers are able to continue building new gear an improving it, essentially giving themselves new powers as they go, they have the potential to be the most versatile capes and can often defeat any threat they are able to prepare for. There are a handful of GameBreaker capes that are more powerful than any tinker but the tinker classification is generally recognized as the best force multiplier for any super team.
16th May '17 1:24:53 PM Arachnos
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* Although ''Anime/KillLaKill'' has no magic per se, the trope is still in play if you substitute "magic" with "Life Fibers". At the beginning of the anime, Ryuko (who will be considered as the "wizard" since she is [[spoiler:a Life Fiber hybrid]]) is outpowered by Satsuki and her Elite Four (whose use of Life Fiber clothing makes them roughly equivalent to {{Magic Knight}}s, or warriors with enchanted equipment). She is also beaten by Tsumugu, a Nudist Beach agent who uses anti-Life Fiber weaponry but no Life Fiber clothing at all (straight warrior). By the end of the series, Ryuko, after [[TimeToUnlockSomeMoreTruePotential multiple unlockings of true potential]], is effectively godlike. Satsuki and the Elite Four [[CantCatchUp can't quite catch up]] but at least kinda manage to keep up until the final battle, which Ryuko fights alone. Tsumugu and Nudist Beach in general, meanwhile, are reduced to [[JokeCharacter a joke]].

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* Although ''Anime/KillLaKill'' has no magic per se, the trope is still in play if you substitute "magic" with "Life Fibers". At the beginning of the anime, Ryuko (who will be considered as the "wizard" since she is [[spoiler:a Life Fiber hybrid]]) is outpowered by Satsuki and her Elite Four (whose use of Life Fiber clothing makes them roughly equivalent to {{Magic Knight}}s, or warriors with enchanted equipment). She is also beaten by Tsumugu, a Nudist Beach agent who uses anti-Life Fiber weaponry but no Life Fiber clothing at all (straight warrior). By the end of the series, Ryuko, after [[TimeToUnlockSomeMoreTruePotential [[TimeToUnlockMoreTruePotential multiple unlockings of true potential]], is effectively godlike. Satsuki and the Elite Four [[CantCatchUp can't quite catch up]] but at least kinda manage to keep up until the final battle, which Ryuko fights alone. Tsumugu and Nudist Beach in general, meanwhile, are reduced to [[JokeCharacter a joke]].
16th May '17 1:24:29 PM Arachnos
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* Although ''Anime/KillLaKill'' has no magic per se, the trope is still in play if you substitute "magic" with "Life Fibers". At the beginning of the anime, Ryuko (who will be considered as the "wizard" since she is [[spoiler:a Life Fiber hybrid]]) is outpowered by Satsuki and her Elite Four (whose use of Life Fiber clothing makes them roughly equivalent to {{Magic Knight}}s, or warriors with enchanted equipment). She is also beaten by Tsumugu, a Nudist Beach agent who uses anti-Life Fiber weaponry but no Life Fiber clothing at all (straight warrior). By the end of the series, Ryuko, after [[TimeToUnlockSomeMoreTruePotential multiple unlockings of true potential]], is effectively godlike. Satsuki and the Elite Four [[CantCatchUp can't quite catch up]] but at least kinda manage to keep up until the final battle, which Ryuko fights alone. Tsumugu and Nudist Beach in general, meanwhile, are reduced to [[JokeCharacter a joke]].
13th May '17 12:17:25 PM nombretomado
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* ''LuminousArc2'' has a rather notable trait about this. While [[LuminousArc the first one]] is actually more balanced, the second one seem to use this giving highest MAG Fatima and Sadie (who graces the bottom page picture, compared to MightyGlacier Rasche) very high AO (turn frequency) and Movement. Their strongest spells? They hit 5 spaces up to 7 panels away.

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* ''LuminousArc2'' ''VideoGame/LuminousArc2'' has a rather notable trait about this. While [[LuminousArc [[VideoGame/LuminousArc the first one]] is actually more balanced, the second one seem to use this giving highest MAG Fatima and Sadie (who graces the bottom page picture, compared to MightyGlacier Rasche) very high AO (turn frequency) and Movement. Their strongest spells? They hit 5 spaces up to 7 panels away.
24th Apr '17 6:31:48 PM nombretomado
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* Zig-Zagged in the TalesSeries. It really depends on the game you're playing; in some the mages are more powerful (''VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny II'', ''VideoGame/TalesOfEternia''), in others fighters are more powerful (''VideoGame/TalesOfLegendia'', ''VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny'') but in just about all of them, you basically need both since the games are often balanced enough that both become powerful end-game. Essentially; fighters aren't limited by casting times but mages have utility.

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* Zig-Zagged in the TalesSeries.''VideoGame/TalesSeries''. It really depends on the game you're playing; in some the mages are more powerful (''VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny II'', ''VideoGame/TalesOfEternia''), in others fighters are more powerful (''VideoGame/TalesOfLegendia'', ''VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny'') but in just about all of them, you basically need both since the games are often balanced enough that both become powerful end-game. Essentially; fighters aren't limited by casting times but mages have utility.
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