History Main / GrapplingWithGrapplingRules

5th Feb '16 10:19:34 PM thatother1dude
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* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', which allows dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).
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* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', which allows dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} [[SynchronizedSwarming trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action.action]]. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).
13th Jan '16 12:16:46 AM FordPrefect
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* Both ''TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness'' and [[TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness the new.]] You might think a system in which vampires grappling helpless victims on a daily basis would have a simple means of determining success...
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* Both ''TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness'' and [[TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness the new.]] You might think a system in which vampires grappling grapple helpless victims on a daily basis would have a simple means of determining success...
24th Oct '15 10:42:44 PM AuraXtreme
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** While the regular GM would rather give up than deal with the grappling rules, when [[{{Munchkin}} Pete]] later stands in as substitute GM he [[http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0344.html takes pride in using the full system]]. But doesn't give the full impact of it, so this [[http://darthsanddroids.net/comics/darths0344_bonus.jpg THIS]] is the full uncut version with the true insanity level.
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** While the regular GM would rather give up than deal with the grappling rules, when [[{{Munchkin}} Pete]] later stands in as substitute GM he [[http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0344.html takes pride in using the full system]]. But that doesn't give the full impact of it, so this [[http://darthsanddroids.net/comics/darths0344_bonus.jpg THIS]] is the full uncut version with the true insanity level.level. *** Worth noting is, although Pete was being a KillerGameMaster for most of that session, he can only claim credit for the opponent and the surrounding hazards; the end result of that fight putting Jim in a horrible position was all this trope.
20th Oct '15 8:51:55 PM NinjaLore
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Added DiffLines:
** Four movies and over a thousand strips later, the GM sighs when Lando has to grapple on Jabba's sailbarge.
9th Sep '15 1:25:09 PM StFan
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* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''TabletopGame/AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).
to:
* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''TabletopGame/AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed allows dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option).
22nd Aug '15 11:46:54 AM WillyFourEyes
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Rearranged and categorized for clarity
!!Examples: [[AC:Examples]]
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!!Examples: [[AC:Examples]]!!Straight Examples [[AC:TabletopGames]]

* The ''StreetFighter'' roleplaying game tried to avoid issues by taking the FightingGame approach, which is OK in some respects (say, if you have the Bearhug manoeuvre, or the Spinning Piledriver; you get what you use), but can be seen as lacking some flexibility. What would you do if, say, you had to hold someone still, and your only Grab manoeuvre you bought was the grab-and-toss Throw?
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* The ''StreetFighter'' ''TabletopGame/StreetFighter'' roleplaying game tried to avoid issues by taking the FightingGame approach, which is OK in some respects (say, if you have the Bearhug manoeuvre, or the Spinning Piledriver; you get what you use), but can be seen as lacking some flexibility. What would you do if, say, you had to hold someone still, and your only Grab manoeuvre you bought was the grab-and-toss Throw?

* ''NinjasAndSuperspies''. In the words of someone who tried it: "It's the gaming equivalent of Cthulhu." The sad thing is you can build whole characters based off of grappling. * Sort of averted in the ''HeroSystem'', in that the grappling rules aren't significantly more complicated than the rest of the combat system. Note, however, that Hero System is notorious for its {{Doorstopper}} rulebook.
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* ''NinjasAndSuperspies''.''TabletopGame/NinjasAndSuperspies''. In the words of someone who tried it: "It's the gaming equivalent of Cthulhu." The sad thing is you can build whole characters based off of grappling. * Sort of averted in the ''HeroSystem'', ''TabletopGame/HeroSystem'', in that the grappling rules aren't significantly more complicated than the rest of the combat system. Note, however, that Hero System is notorious for its {{Doorstopper}} rulebook.

* At least until the third edition of ''TheDarkEye'', grappling (save for one very specific fighting style) did only do damage to stamina and not to HP, meaning you could not kill anyone with your bare hands. * ''BurningWheel'' grappling is extremely complex, though the difference between it and the rest of its combat system isn't as great as many systems due to overall complexity.
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* At least until the third edition of ''TheDarkEye'', ''TabletopGame/TheDarkEye'', grappling (save for one very specific fighting style) did only do damage to stamina and not to HP, meaning you could not kill anyone with your bare hands. * ''BurningWheel'' ''TabletopGame/BurningWheel'' grappling is extremely complex, though the difference between it and the rest of its combat system isn't as great as many systems due to overall complexity.

* At least until the third The first edition of ''TheDarkEye'', the ''TabletopGame/LegendOfTheFiveRings'' RPG had a distinct lack of grappling (save for rules, until a supplement introduced the Mizu-do unarmed combat learned by some Crane. The rules were unbalanced, especially the joint lock maneuver. A starting character who was reasonably skilled in Mizu-do had about a 50% chance of disarming and incapacitating the greatest warriors in Rokugan using this manuever, because the target's stats were completely irrelevant to whether the manuever succeeded. * Most '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. The rules themselves are actually quite simple and generally intuitive, taking up a mere half page of text, but are restricted to the advanced ''Tactical Operations'' tech level 3 rules. They are one very specific fighting style) did only do damage to stamina and of the few rules not to HP, meaning you could not kill anyone be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptations. ** Same with your bare hands. * ''BurningWheel'' the ''Mechwarrior'' RPG. The rule books give about one page to trying to present grappling is extremely complex, though the difference between it rules using adapted wargame mechanics, then appears to give up and the rest of its combat system isn't as great as many systems due to overall complexity.point out that [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim simply attacking someone with a weapon is much easier and more effective.]] [[AC:VideoGames]]

* The first edition of the ''LegendOfTheFiveRings'' RPG had a distinct lack of grappling rules, until a supplement introduced the Mizu-do unarmed combat learned by some Crane. The rules were unbalanced, especially the joint lock maneuver. A starting character who was reasonably skilled in Mizu-do had about a 50% chance of disarming and incapacitating the greatest warriors in Rokugan using this manuever, because the target's stats were completely irrelevant to whether the manuever succeeded. * Most '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. The rules themselves are actually quite simple and generally intuitive, taking up a mere half page of text, but are restricted to the advanced ''Tactical Operations'' tech level 3 rules. They are one of the few rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptations. ** Same with the ''Mechwarrior'' RPG. The rule books give about one page to trying to present grappling rules using adapted wargame mechanics, then appears to give up and point out that [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim simply attacking someone with a weapon is much easier and more effective.]] [[AC:Parodies]]
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!!Parodies [[AC:NewspaperComics]] * The first edition of A classic ''ComicStrip/KnightsOfTheDinnerTable'' strip concerns the ''LegendOfTheFiveRings'' RPG had a distinct lack of grappling rules, until a supplement introduced knights (well really Brian), abusing Hackmasters "overbearing" (historically the Mizu-do absolutely most confusing and loopholed part of ''AD&D'''s unarmed combat learned by some Crane. The rules were unbalanced, especially rules) to take the joint lock maneuver. A starting character who was reasonably skilled in Mizu-do had about a 50% chance of disarming and incapacitating the greatest warriors in Rokugan using this manuever, because the target's stats were completely irrelevant to whether the manuever succeeded. * Most '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. The rules themselves are actually quite simple and generally intuitive, taking up a mere half page of text, but are restricted to the advanced ''Tactical Operations'' tech level 3 rules. They are one Adventure OffTheRails. Mere mention of the few rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptations. ** Same with the ''Mechwarrior'' RPG. The rule books give about one page to trying to present grappling rules using adapted wargame mechanics, then appears to give up and point out that [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim simply attacking someone with a weapon is much easier and more effective.]] [[AC:Parodies]]term "Beggar Mobs" can crack fans up. [[AC:{{Webcomics}}]]

* ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''TabletopGame/AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option). * A classic ''ComicStrip/KnightsOfTheDinnerTable'' strip concerns the knights (well really Brian), abusing Hackmasters "overbearing" (historically the absolutely most confusing and loopholed part of ''AD&D'''s unarmed combat rules) to take the Adventure OffTheRails. Mere mention of the term "Beggar Mobs" can crack fans up.

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[[AC:WebOriginal]] * ''Blog/ThingsMrWelchIsNoLongerAllowedToDoInAnRPG'' #999 ("I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."). This is primarily a reference to 3rd ed. ''TabletopGame/AdvancedDungeonsAndDragons'', which allowed dozens of tiny creatures to gang up on large ones, each one gaining a significant bonus for every other combatant. Or at least, allowing sixteen grapple rolls, one of which will inevitably be a CriticalHit. Granted, the latter doesn't help on a grapple check if their modifier is too low to win even then, which is why the true {{Munchkin}} trains the squirrels to use the Aid Another action. Those that make a successful attack against a flat AC of 10 (probably about three out of four squirrels) each grant a stacking +2 bonus on the character's grapple check (or attack roll or armor class, at the squirrel's option). * A classic ''ComicStrip/KnightsOfTheDinnerTable'' strip concerns the knights (well really Brian), abusing Hackmasters "overbearing" (historically the absolutely most confusing and loopholed part of ''AD&D'''s unarmed combat rules) to take the Adventure OffTheRails. Mere mention of the term "Beggar Mobs" can crack fans up.option).
22nd Jun '15 8:57:34 AM ScholaratArms
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the entry conflated two opposite gameplay problems in two different edtions as if they were the same. Hopefully the problems in the 1e/2e grappling rules are clearer now.
** Overbearing an enemy in 1st and 2nd edition was simply a horrifying, game-breaking rule. Players and [=GMs=] who used it made the others at the table cry or shudder in disbelief, though often only after a twenty minute review of the rules. It was perfectly possible for a 20th level fighter (read: a legendary warrior whose skills were at the peak the core rule books' range) to be pulled down and pounded into paste by a gang of basic ogres who should, by all rights, be running for their lives. In "normal" combat, the ogres were more suitable for characters for 2nd-5th level, depending on how your particular GM chose to balance his campaigns. Likewise, having a high level human fighter tackle and pin a frost giant - without any Strength boosting equipment - wasn't that hard. ''Player's Option'' (the late 2nd edition books) made it worse.
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** Overbearing an enemy in 1st and 2nd edition was simply a horrifying, game-breaking rule. Players and [=GMs=] who used it made the others at the table cry or shudder in disbelief, though often only after a twenty minute review of the rules. It In 1st edition AD&D, non-lethal combat was modified by ability scores (among other things) but ''not'' by character level, additionally large bonuses to grappling and overbearing were given based on relative height ''and'' relative weight: therefore it was perfectly possible for a 20th level fighter (read: a legendary warrior whose skills were at the peak the core rule books' range) to be pulled down and pounded into paste by a gang of basic of 9-foot tall ogres who should, by all rights, be running for their lives. In "normal" melee combat, the ogres were more suitable for characters for 2nd-5th level, depending on how your particular GM chose to balance his campaigns. Likewise, In 2nd edition, grappling capabilities ''were'' modified by character level just like a normal melee attack, and so having a high level human fighter tackle and pin a frost giant - without any Strength boosting equipment - wasn't that hard. ''Player's Option'' (the late 2nd edition books) made it worse. YMMV on which problem - having character level rendered mostly irrelevant by a specific attack mode or sending the laws of mechanics off to cry in a corner - is more of an obstacle to gameplay.
11th Jun '15 6:49:21 PM thatother1dude
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'''Anakin''': What? Aren't there rules for grappling in this game? [[RandomNumberGod Why are you all covering your dice]]?
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'''Anakin''': What? Aren't there rules for grappling in this game? [[RandomNumberGod Why are you all covering your dice]]?dice?
23rd Mar '15 5:08:31 PM Saber15
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* Most '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they are the only section of the core rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptations.
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* Most '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they The rules themselves are actually quite simple and generally intuitive, taking up a mere half page of text, but are restricted to the only section advanced ''Tactical Operations'' tech level 3 rules. They are one of the core few rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptations.
3rd Dec '14 7:12:56 AM Saber15
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* Most '''Tabletopgame/Battletech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they are the only section of the core rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptation
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* Most '''Tabletopgame/Battletech'' '''Tabletopgame/BattleTech'' players are largely unaware the game even has grapple rules. As yet they are the only section of the core rules not to be included in ANY of its [[Videogame/MechWarrior videogame]] adaptationadaptations.
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