History Main / DecisiveBattle

12th Jun '17 4:11:10 AM Grudgeal
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** The battle of Midway was the turning point for proceedings in the Pacific, where the American Navy was able to inflict a large enough blow on the Japanese that they were never able to recover for the rest of the way. It is widely considered the most important naval conflict in history.

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** The battle [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway Battle of Midway]] in 1942. Midway was saw the turning point for proceedings in the Pacific, where the American Navy was able to inflict a large enough blow on loss of two thirds of Japan's heavy carrier fleet, losses that the Japanese Empire couldn't replace at the rate the US could [[note]]the US had three carriers ready to launch at the end of that they were never year; Japan wouldn't be able to recover produce another heavy carrier until 1944. Japan also lost the very experienced carrier crews and fighter wings stationed aboard the ships. Japanese doctrine of keeping experienced personnel in active duty, instead of rotating them back into training like the US did, meant a significant drop in future combat efficiency for their navy and air force[[/note]], and essentially shifted the rest of war from an offensive one to a defensive one for Japan as they could no longer project airplane-based force in the way. It is widely considered Pacific Theatre to rival the most important naval conflict in history.US.



** The battles of the Philippine Sea and Leyte Gulf in June and October 1944, respectively. These two Naval battles shattered the Japanese Navy as a fighting force. In the former case, the Japanese Fleet lost virtually their entire complement of carrier aircraft and pilots, while the latter resulted in the loss of several Japanese capital ships in a desperate bid to drive back the American carrier fleet.

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** The battles of Most notably, the Philippine Sea and Leyte Gulf in June and October 1944, respectively. These two Naval battles shattered strategy adopted by the Imperial Japanese Navy as following Midway and Guadcanal ''counted on this trope'', revolving around a fighting force. In [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantai_Kessen Decisive Battle]] where their fleet would crush the former case, US one in a single, climactic battle. This strategy was epitomized on the massive ''Yamato''-class battleships. The US Navy, on the other hand, defied this trope between the loss of battleships at Pearl Harbour forcing the USN to rely on its carriers, the island-hopping strategy that intentionally avoided large concentrations of Japanese forces, and the massive industrial advantage the US had over Japan allowing it to replace its losses. It came to a head in the Philippines Campaign in 1944 (At The Battle of Leyte Gulf) when the last effective remnants of the worn-down IJN were torn to shreds.[[note]]While some would consider "The Marianas Turkey Shoot" to be this, at that battle the Japanese Fleet lost virtually carriers and their entire complement of carrier escorts escaped despite the extreme damage to their aircraft and pilots, while the latter resulted in the loss of several Japanese capital ships in a desperate bid to drive back the American carrier fleet.squadrons. Leyte is when they were completely destroyed.[[/note]]



** Most notably, the strategy adopted by the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II turned around a [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantai_Kessen Decisive Battle]] where their fleet would crush the US one in a single, climactic battle. This strategy was epitomized on the massive ''Yamato''-class battleships. The US Navy, on the other hand, ultimately defied this trope between the loss of battleships at Pearl Harbor forcing the USN to rely on its carriers, the island-hopping strategy that intentionally avoided large concentrations of Japanese forces, and the massive industrial advantage the US had over Japan allowing it to replace its losses. It came to a head in the Philippines Campaign in 1944 (At The Battle of Leyte Gulf) when the last effective remnants of the worn-down IJN were torn to shreds.[[note]]While some would consider "The Marianas Turkey Shoot" to be this, at that battle the Japanese carriers and their escorts escaped despite the extreme damage to their aircraft squadrons. Leyte is when they were completely destroyed.[[/note]]
** The Japanese Decisive Battle doctrine, incidentally, was caused by an ''earlier'' decisive battle, the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway Battle of Midway]] in 1942. Midway saw the loss of two thirds of Japan's heavy carrier fleet, losses that the Japanese Empire couldn't replace at the rate the US could [[note]]the US had three carriers ready to launch at the end of that year; Japan wouldn't be able to produce another heavy carrier until 1944. Japan also lost the very experienced carrier crews and fighter wings stationed aboard the ships. Japanese doctrine of keeping experienced personnel in active duty, instead of rotating them back into training like the US did, meant a significant drop in future combat efficiency for their navy and air force[[/note]], and essentially shifted the war from an offensive one to a defensive one for Japan as they could no longer project airplane-based force in the Pacific Theatre to rival the US.
12th Jun '17 4:08:28 AM Grudgeal
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** The Japanese Decisive Battle doctrine, incidentally, was caused by an ''earlier'' decisive battle, the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway Battle of Midway]] in 1942. Midway saw the loss of two thirds of Japan's heavy carrier fleet, losses that the Japanese Empire couldn't replace at the rate the US could [[note]]the US had three carriers ready to launch at the end of that year; Japan wouldn't be able to produce another heavy carrier until 1944. Japan also lost the very experienced carrier crews and fighter wings stationed aboard the ships. Japanese doctrine of keeping experienced personnel in active duty, instead of rotating them back into training like the US did, meant a significant drop in future combat efficiency for their navy and air force[[/note]], and essentially shifted the war from an offensive one to a defensive one for Japan as they could no longer project airplane-based force in the Pacific Theatre to rival the US.
26th Apr '17 8:47:19 PM JulianLapostat
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* The Battle of Trafalgar is considered one of the most decisive battles of UsefulNotes/TheNapoleonicWars and the greatest British naval victory of all time. Before the battle, Napoleon had been building up the French and Spanish navies for a potential invasion of England, as you cannot invade the British Isles without going through the Royal Navy. Admiral Horatio Nelson lead the British fleet to victory and though he did not survive the battle, nearly half of the Combined Franco-Spanish Fleet was captured with the British losing no ships of their own. Never again would the French be in a position to challenge the British at sea, leaving them to blockade and strangle off trade bound for the continent. In addition, the battle essentially assured British naval supremacy for the next century.

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* The Battle of Trafalgar is considered one of the most decisive battles of UsefulNotes/TheNapoleonicWars and the greatest British naval victory of all time. Before the battle, Napoleon had been building up the French and Spanish navies for a potential invasion of England, as you cannot invade the British Isles without going through the Royal Navy. Admiral Horatio Nelson lead led the British fleet to victory and though he did not survive the battle, nearly half of the Combined Franco-Spanish Fleet was captured with the British losing no ships of their own. Never again would the French be in a position to challenge the British at sea, leaving them to blockade and strangle off trade bound for the continent. In addition, the battle essentially assured British naval supremacy for the next century.
** The real decisive battle was "The Battle of Leipzig"/"Battle of the Nations". Napoleon was an undisputed land power on the Continent even after Trafalgar and returning from his disastrous expedition of Russia, he was still powerful. All that mattered was getting through an allied force of Prussians/Austrians/Russians. Had Napoleon won, he would in all likelihood have remained Emperor, but this defeat cracked his myth of supremacy and was so devastating that Napoleon's {{Conscription}} based army would never quite recover previously. Napoleon was forced to AbdicateTheThrone and while he made a spirited comeback in 1815, he never quite recovered to pre-Leipzig strength.
11th Apr '17 11:45:59 AM rjryan3
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* The penultimate battle in ''NexusTheJupiterIncident'' is the largest battle in the game. It involves your task force facing off against constant waves of whole enemy fleets periodically arriving via the wormhole to the Solar System. Not only is the battle incredibly tough, but you must constantly watch that your ships don't get too close to the wormhole lest they be sucked in. You ''may'' get some reinforcements, but that depends on your actions in previous missions (e.g. Chief Zatuk's ''Warcry'' will only arrive if you kept him alive during an impromptu EscortMission earlier). The final battle involves just your ship facing off against a massive Vardrag cityship while also fighting the massive gravitational pull of the Nexus.
11th Apr '17 11:44:39 AM rjryan3
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* The penultimate battle in ''NexusTheJupiterIncident'' is the largest battle in the game. It involves your task force facing off against constant waves of whole enemy fleets periodically arriving via the wormhole to the Solar System. Not only is the battle incredibly tough, but you must constantly watch that your ships don't get too close to the wormhole lest they be sucked in. You ''may'' get some reinforcements, but that depends on your actions in previous missions (e.g. Chief Zatuk's ''Warcry'' will only arrive if you kept him alive during an impromptu EscortMission earlier). The final battle involves just your ship facing off against a massive Vardrag cityship while also fighting the massive gravitational pull of the Nexus.
4th Apr '17 11:42:06 PM ImpudentInfidel
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** The other battle was the Siege of Minas Tirith in which Sauron attempted to topple Gondor and ensure his domain over Middle-Earth, but reinforcements from Rohan and then from Aragorn with several Dunedian and soldiers from south Gondor ensured that Mordor's army was routed and the king returned. This led to the FinalBattle outside the Black Gates which allowed Frodo to destroy the ring.

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** The other battle was the Siege of Minas Tirith in which Sauron attempted to topple Gondor and ensure his domain over Middle-Earth, but reinforcements from Rohan and then from Aragorn with several Dunedian and soldiers from south Gondor ensured that Mordor's army was routed and the king returned. This led to the FinalBattle outside the Black Gates which allowed Frodo to destroy the ring. As a side note, according the appendices Sauron considered the siege of Minas Tirith actually something of a sideshow; his much larger main army was engaged and annihilated by an alliance of Elves and Dwarves far to the north at the Lonely Mountain.
13th Dec '16 8:19:44 PM Doug86
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* In the ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' series, being a series of strategy RPG games all about warfare where death is (mostly) permanent, losing any battle means game over, but at least once a game there are battles where victory turns the tides of the conflict on a larger scale than your own survival, even when it's not the final battle itself.

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* In the ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' series, being a series of strategy RPG games all about warfare where death is (mostly) permanent, losing any battle means game over, but at least once a game there are battles where victory turns the tides of the conflict on a larger scale than your own survival, even when it's not the final battle itself.
4th Dec '16 12:10:58 PM StarSword
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* ''Franchise/StarWars'': The Battle of Endor in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. The Second Death Star is destroyed, Emperor Palpatine is killed and with him the Banite Sith Order, and the Rebels inflict serious damage on a major Imperial fleet (including killing a number of senior flag officers with the Super Star Destroyer ''Executor''). Both ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends'' and the new Creator/{{Disney}} continuity take this as ''the'' turning point that led to the fall of the Galactic Empire.

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* ''Franchise/StarWars'': The Battle of Endor in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. The Second Death Star is destroyed, Emperor Palpatine is and Darth Vader are killed and with him them the Banite Sith Order, and the Rebels inflict serious damage on a major Imperial fleet (including killing a number of senior flag officers with aboard the Super Star Destroyer ''Executor''). Both ExpandedUniverse continuities, ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends'' and the new Creator/{{Disney}} continuity Creator/{{Disney}}-managed ''Franchise/StarWarsExpandedUniverse'', take this as ''the'' turning point that led to the fall of the Galactic Empire.



* The grav lance in ''Literature/HonorHarrington: On Basilisk Station'' is created as a response to the ''inability'' to pursue one in space due to ReactionlessDrive physics. Fleet battles tend to end with the losing side standing up on their impeller wedges and fleeing, using the impenetrability of the impeller field as a shield; any pursuers expose their vulnerable bow to the defenders' less-vulnerable stern. The grav lance is designed to eliminate the sidewall DeflectorShield and allow highly damaging energy torpedoes to go to work on the bare hull, but [[AwesomeButImpractical its range is too short to make it practical]] unless you can pull off an ambush. Ultimately, new developments make decisive battles more feasible.

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* The grav lance in ''Literature/HonorHarrington: On Basilisk Station'' is created as a response to the ''inability'' to pursue one in space due to ReactionlessDrive physics. Fleet The series starts with the "arms vs. armor" balance tipped way over in the armor direction, so fleet battles tend to end with the losing side standing up on their impeller wedges and fleeing, using the impenetrability of the impeller field as a shield; any shield. Any pursuers expose their vulnerable bow to the defenders' less-vulnerable stern. The grav lance which Honor's ship is equipped with is designed to eliminate the sidewall DeflectorShield and allow highly damaging energy torpedoes to go to work on the bare hull, but [[AwesomeButImpractical its range is too short to make it practical]] unless you can pull off an ambush. Ultimately, By later books, new developments developments[[note]]mainly [[MacrossMissileMassacre massed missile fire via missile pods to overwhelm the enemy's defenses]] and obliterate them before they can flee[[/note]] make decisive battles more feasible.
3rd Dec '16 12:22:02 PM StarSword
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* ''Franchise/StarWars'': The Battle of Endor in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. The Second Death Star is destroyed, Emperor Palpatine is killed and with him the Banite Sith Order, and the Rebels inflict serious damage on a major Imperial fleet. Both ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends'' and the new Creator/{{Disney}} continuity take this as ''the'' turning point that led to the fall of the Galactic Empire.

to:

* ''Franchise/StarWars'': The Battle of Endor in ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. The Second Death Star is destroyed, Emperor Palpatine is killed and with him the Banite Sith Order, and the Rebels inflict serious damage on a major Imperial fleet.fleet (including killing a number of senior flag officers with the Super Star Destroyer ''Executor''). Both ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends'' and the new Creator/{{Disney}} continuity take this as ''the'' turning point that led to the fall of the Galactic Empire.



* ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends: The Literature/NewJediOrder -- Destiny's Way'' is {{bookend|s}}ed by two of them. It begins with the Alliance ambushing and destroying a sizable Yuuzhan Vong fleet at Obroa-Skai, seeking to assassinate Supreme Overlord Shimmra who turned out not to be aboard. After this, Shimmra complains to his generals that the loss of this fleet means the Yuuzhan Vong no longer have any strategic reserve remaining and berates them for advancing into the galaxy "over a rampart of our own dead". The book then ends with the Alliance luring in and decisively destroying a fleet led by Warmaster Tsavong Lah at Ebaq 9; Lah ejects and is killed on the ground by Jaina Solo. The war continues for another five books (this is a ''long'' series), but after ''Destiny's Way'' it's pretty much all downhill for the Vong.

to:

* ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends: The Literature/NewJediOrder -- Destiny's Way'' is {{bookend|s}}ed by two of them. It begins with the Alliance ambushing and destroying a sizable Yuuzhan Vong fleet at Obroa-Skai, seeking to assassinate Supreme Overlord Shimmra who turned out not to be aboard. After this, Shimmra complains to his generals that the loss of this fleet means the Yuuzhan Vong no longer have any strategic reserve remaining and berates them for advancing into the galaxy "over a rampart of our own dead". The book then ends with the Alliance luring in and decisively destroying a fleet led by Warmaster Tsavong Lah at Ebaq 9; Lah ejects from his flagship in an EscapePod and is killed on the ground by Jaina Solo. The war continues for another five books (this is a ''long'' series), but after ''Destiny's Way'' it's pretty much all downhill for the Vong.



* In the backstory for ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'', and its TV adaptation ''Series/GameOfThrones'', the Battle of the Trident was the decisive battle of Robert's Rebellion. Despite setbacks and defeats at the hands of House Tyrell, Robert Baratheon faced Prince Rhaegar Targaryen at the Trident and personally killed him, shattering the royal armies. This battle made Lord Tywin Lannister, who by then had been sitting out the war, to realize that the rebel cause would soon be victorious and so lead his own armies to King's Landing to sack it as a sign of fealty to Robert.



* In ''Franchise/StarWars'', the separate destruction of both Death Stars are this. The first one at Yavin killed a number of the Emperor's best servants, especially Grand Moff Tarkin. However, it is subverted in that the Imperial Fleet was not damaged and a squadron of Star Destroyers was quickly sent to Yavin to quarantine the Rebels. A better example is the Second Death Star at Endor. Its destruction and the preceding space battle resulted in the death of the Emperor, Darth Vader, along with the loss of the flagship ''Executor'' and nearly half the fleet engaged. ExpandedUniverse material reveals that the ''Executor'' was the greater loss; while other leaders stepped in to fill the Emperor's shoes and frankly couldn't do worse than he had, the loss of the flagship (and the best and brightest of the officer corp that were serving on her) was a blow they didn't recover from until the war had turned against them.
* In the backstory for ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'', and its TV adaptation ''Series/GameOfThrones'', the Battle of the Trident was the decisive battle of Robert's Rebellion. Despite setbacks and defeats at the hands of House Tyrell, Robert Baratheon faced Prince Rhaegar Targaryen at the Trident and personally killed him, shattering the royal armies. This battle made Lord Tywin Lannister, who by then had been sitting out the war, to realize that the rebel cause would soon be victorious and so lead his own armies to King's Landing to sack it as a sign of fealty to Robert.
20th Nov '16 2:43:48 PM StarSword
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* The grav lance in ''Literature/HonorHarrington: On Basilisk Station'' is created as a response to the ''inability'' to pursue one in space due to ReactionlessDrive physics. Fleet battles tend to end with the losing side standing up on their impeller wedges and fleeing, using the impenetrability of the impeller field as a shield; any pursuers expose their vulnerable bow to the defenders' less-vulnerable stern. The grav lance is designed to eliminate the sidewall DeflectorShield and allow highly damaging energy torpedoes to go to work on the bare hull, but its range is too short to make it practical. Ultimately, new developments make decisive battles more feasible.

to:

* The grav lance in ''Literature/HonorHarrington: On Basilisk Station'' is created as a response to the ''inability'' to pursue one in space due to ReactionlessDrive physics. Fleet battles tend to end with the losing side standing up on their impeller wedges and fleeing, using the impenetrability of the impeller field as a shield; any pursuers expose their vulnerable bow to the defenders' less-vulnerable stern. The grav lance is designed to eliminate the sidewall DeflectorShield and allow highly damaging energy torpedoes to go to work on the bare hull, but [[AwesomeButImpractical its range is too short to make it practical.practical]] unless you can pull off an ambush. Ultimately, new developments make decisive battles more feasible.
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