History Main / CulturalPosturing

* Some descendants, or at least this troper's family, of Irish immigrants from the days of colonization of the United States joke about being immortal. This is because Ireland is geographically in the same place as Atlantis is in the non-Irish Atlantis stories, but aside from that the assertion doesn't have any real basis aside from the red hair not graying as fast and this troper being the only person she knows with a great-grandmother.

* Modern Day Arabs often pull this on Westerners, claiming that, historically, Muslim nations gave more rights to women and the condemned than western countries. There were also long stretches of history where Muslim countries had more advanced empires and science than western nations.
** There's definitely an aspect of bit of wishful thinking to it, however, since one of the major reasons Islamic countries had these things was that the religion spread among the extremely well-developed societies which and experienced numerous advanced civilizations and cultures. It's also a case of cherry-picking examples they liked and comparing them to an somewhat simplistic view of "christendom" or something.

** A perfectly valid question btw.
*** Greatest Olympic opening ceremony in history? Fastest trains in the world? Lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a generation? I think the real question is what have '''we''' done lately?

** More broadly are the assertions among both Canadians, British, and Americans that their country were the ones that won the war. In reality, the war was more or less inconclusive; none of the sides involved got what they ''really'' wanted, and in fact holding the line against the enemy has become a point of pride for ''both'' Americans and Canadians, paradoxically.

* WorldWarTwo is a favorite source of CulturalPosturing among several different countries, usually among those from the Allies, and ''especially'' among the "Big Three" (United States, United Kingdom, Russia/Soviet Union). Many people from these countries don't want to share the credit for winning the war, even though it took all three Allies to beat the Axis. Russia and the United States would have been in big trouble if Britain hadn't held the line. Neither Britain nor Russia could have carried on without American support. Without the Russians on the Eastern Front, Britain would have been overrun

*** One could, if one felt so uncharitable, attribute this to the general ethnocentrism of the new series. While true to an extent, if one was being more charitable they could attribute this particular (and particularly extreme) instance down to the fact he was speaking to a British person at the time of the Blitz, who likely needed all the cheering up and inspiration they could get.
*** It also has the virtue of being absolutely true. France crumbled, the Soviet Union had a deal and the USA didn't want to get involved. For a while there it ''was'' just Britain. Of course one could argue that a good portion of this resolve was due to Winston Churchill.
**** Absolutely true? The way the Doctor made out, Britain was some insignificant country (a.k.a. mouse) standing up against all odds to some great and terrifying bully. As opposed to, you know, the largest empire in the history of mankind and one of the most powerful nations to ever have existed.

* One common real-life version of this is referring to a foreign concept in relation to one's own culture (for instance, Moliere, Calderon, and Pushkin have been called the French, Spanish, and Russian {{Shakespeare}} respectively). There's even a comment on this in ''SnowCrash'' to the effect that while the {{Yakuza}} are called the Japanese Mafia, no one ever calls TheMafia the Italian Yakuza.
** Except in some Japanese anime, which seems to apply the term "yakuza" to any organized crime syndicate.
*** But you get a [[TakeThat reversal]] in the 1980s DolphLundgren ''[[ThePunisher Punisher]]'' movie. When the female yakuza boss addresses the room full of mafioso, she says "While your ancestors were [[ButYouScrewOneGoat screwing sheep]] in the Mediterranean, mine were the crime lords of Asia."
** It's a CulturalTranslation [[EverythingIsRacist gees...]]
* Whenever Americans and British people get into arguments, it often will involve the American reminding the Brit that [[AmericaWinsTheWar "We bailed you out in World War Two!"]]. It happens in both real life and in fiction.
** In ''{{Friends}}'', Ross's father does this while arguing with his fianc?Emily's parents.
** That argument was [[SubvertedTrope subverted]] in a future episode of ''TheSimpsons''. When Moe tells Lisa's English fiance that they bailed them out in World War 2, he responds by reminding him that the English bailed the Americans out in World War 3. Moe admits that this is true.
** A variant appears in ''TheWestWing'' - after trying (and failing) to get the support of Lord [[TheAssInAmbassador John Marbury]], the new British Ambassador to the United States, to support a new missile shield defense system that Leo is supporting, Leo takes him aside at a dinner party pretty much for the sole reason of snottily reminding him who kicked whose ass at the Battle of Yorktown in the American War of Independence.
*** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Donatien_de_Vimeur,_comte_de_Rochambeau The French?]]
*** Not so much. They needed American help to carry some of their targets. Lafayette, remember, was leading an AMERICAN army. Rochambeau was a great guy though. When the English tried to pass over Washington and surrender to him he called them on it.
** ''A Fish Called Wanda'' has Kevin Kline's [[JerkAss character]] randomly spouting this when annoyed. "If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking ''German!''". He says this ''right after'' claiming that Britain would be "the smallest fucking province in the Russian Empire."
* On the other hand, British people will turn AmericaWinsTheWar on its head by claiming that it was Britain that shouldered the lion's share of the work while America stayed out of the war and reaped the benefits--essentially [[AmericaWinsTheWar Britain Wins The War]] (and just as offensive).
** In an episode of ''Steptoe and Son'' where 'arold and his father into a fight on a plane; when an American tries to stop it/join in, dad pushes him away with a contemptuous "Late again!"
** To quote the English Comedian EddieIzzard: The Americans were apparently watching old cavalry movies, because they came to the rescue in the nick of time. "Dun Dun Dun DUH! HERE COMES AMERICA! AHHH I Love the smell of Europe in the morning! Now, what's for brunch?" "WHAT? Where have you been! We're bloody knackered!"
** In Russia, the prevalent attitude is that it was the USSR who bailed out everybody else and their mother in the war. Given that at least 80% of Nazi casualties were suffered at the Eastern front, it might actually make some sense.
** In fact it took all three allies to beat the Axis. Russia and the United States would have been in big trouble if Britain hadn't held the line. Neither Britain nor Russia could have carried on without American support and the Eastern Front was a ''huge'' help.
* Interestingly, it's somewhat rare for the American Revolution to be brought up, despite the fact that that was when America established itself as an independent country by defeating Britain. You'd think more Americans would bring that up.
** Possibly because Americans needed help from the [[CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkeys French]] to win that one.
*** That would make sense, but depressingly few people know that.
* Canadians, on the other hand, are always quick to brag about the WarOf1812, treating it as a CurbStompBattle in Canada's favor--as exemplified in claims that Canadian forces "burned down the U.S. capital." They forget one thing: The action was in retaliation for American forces burning down ''Canada's'' capital during that same war.
** That one tends to work since all most people remember about the WarOf1812 is that the [[PopularHistory White house burned down]] (or that Laura Secord warned the British if your Canadian). Also the Canadians did arguably win that one since they managed to repel the invasion and got what we wanted in the end. This one is actually more likely to be seen in a case where Americans tend to assume that the US could take over Canada whenever it wanted to forgetting the fact that a) Canadians have an impressive military record in their own right and b) we don't actually want to be a part of the USA.

* Canadians, on the other hand, are always quick to brag about the WarOf1812, treating it as a CurbStompBattle in Canada's favor--as exemplified in claims that Canadian forces "burned down the U.S. capital." They forget two things: One, it was ''British'' troops who did that. Two, American forces burned down ''Canada's'' capital during that same war.

** Possibly because we had to rely on [[CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkeys France]] to win that one.

** There's definitely an aspect of bit of wishful thinking to it, however, since one of the major reasons Islamic countries had these things was that the religion spread among the extremely well-developed societies which ahd experienced numerous advanced civilizations and cultures. It's also a case of cherry-picking examples they liked and comparing them to an somewhat simplistic view of "christendom" or something.

*** It also has the virtue of being absolutely true. France crumbled, the Soviet Union had a deal and the USA didn't want to get involved. For a while there it ''was'' just Britain. Of course one could argue that a good portion of this resolve was due to the half-american [[WinstonChurchill Prime Minister.]]

-->"Right now Hitler is rolling up the map of Europe. Nobody can stop him, nobody. Until one damp little island says "no"."

* During a debate in the British Parliament, a young Benjamin Disraeli was heckled with the cry of "Jew! Jew!". He replied "My people were kings and princes, when yours were galley slaves." That makes this OlderThanRadio. For the record, he's giving a bit of a RoseTintedNarrative - Israel was also a Roman dominion.
** On another, similar occasion, he remarked "Yes, I am a Jew and when the ancestors of the right honourable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon."

** It's also [[OnceAcceptableTargets an Irish joke]] (the person being addressed was Irish).

* He was joking about proverb being Russian, and maybe about the others as well.
* Commander Susan Ivanova invokes her Russianness repeatedly on ''[[BabylonFive Babylon 5]]''. This is usually played for laughs, showing the lighter side of the workaholic, near-neurotically professional officer (e.g., other characters' comments expressing a depressing worldview are generally met with some form of "that's very Russian"). Her Jewishness (she's a Russian Jew) is rarely mentioned, although it does seem to inspire her spirituality (she often makes asides to a God who seems to have a very late-Old Testament sense of humor, and she is very moved when she sits Shiva for her father).

** It's not even true. China has had its fair share of 'dark ages' and chaos. The difference is Chinese intellectuals made stasis a virtue, and the West didn't.

* Whenever the Time Lords of ''DoctorWho'' appear (in the classic series, at least), they generally have this kind of attitude to non-Time Lords; it's gradually but persistently undercut, however, by increasing revelations that they're stagnant and over-sheltered as a civilisation, incompetent at anything that falls outside their protected little bubble, corrupt and hypocritical, and altogether not nearly as high-and-mighty as they'd like others to believe.

*The [[TransplantedHumans Martians]] in S.M. Stirling's book ''In the Courts of the Crimson Kings'' are fond of pointing out that how advanced they were while earth humans were hunter-gatherers.

* The wizards from ''{{Harry Potter}}'' always act as though they're far better than muggles. At best they're slightly more advanced. At their very worst they are culturally stagnant, have a KangarooCourt for a justice system, a government as corrupt as any struggling Third World nation, and their education facilities have poor safety standards which seems to be par for the course -- making their purported superiority over the Muggles in every way a joke, which was probably the point.