History Main / CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkeys

8th Apr '17 9:00:54 AM nombretomado
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* Glass Joe of [[PunchOut Punch-Out!!]] both plays this trope straight and inverts it. Plays straight because he has a record of one win and 99 losses. Inverted in that despite his record, he refuses to surrender (retire), and he'll gladly go through a fight until his [[WarmupBoss inevitable defeat]].

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* Glass Joe of [[PunchOut Punch-Out!!]] ''VideoGame/PunchOut'' both plays this trope straight and inverts it. Plays straight because he has a record of one win and 99 losses. Inverted in that despite his record, he refuses to surrender (retire), and he'll gladly go through a fight until his [[WarmupBoss inevitable defeat]].
3rd Apr '17 3:36:39 PM Jormungar
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The collective enthusiasm of the French for warfare lasted well into the first few months of World War One. However massive casualties soon dampened their enthusiasm, with France loosing more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. On top of that another 4 million were physically and [[ShellShockedVeteran mentally]] scarred, and the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 went on to kill twice as many as had died in the war. By the end of the war the French people were exhausted, and moreover completely disgusted with their leadership. By 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years.

to:

The collective enthusiasm of the French for warfare lasted well into the first few months of World War One. However massive casualties soon dampened their enthusiasm, with France loosing losing more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. On top of that another 4 million were physically and [[ShellShockedVeteran mentally]] scarred, and the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 went on to kill twice as many as had died in the war. By the end of the war the French people were exhausted, and moreover completely disgusted with their leadership. By 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years.
3rd Apr '17 3:32:12 PM Jormungar
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One would suspect this trope came about because for about the past 250 years France has had a rough recent record, appearing to have lost or needed substantial help in all five of the major wars it has fought - the UsefulNotes/SevenYearsWar, UsefulNotes/TheNapoleonicWars, [[UsefulNotes/FrancoPrussianWar the Franco-Prussian War,]] the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI First World War,]] and most importantly of all the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second World War]]. Funnily enough, this trope [[NewerThanTheyThink only came to prominence in 2003]] following France's refusal to support a US-led coalition's invasion and occupation of Iraq. Even after Americans themselves turned against the war, the portrayal stuck. France had been unpopular before, but previously the focus had been France's perceived lack of gratitude, with UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle claiming that France "liberated herself" during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, rather than them being a nation of cowards.

to:

One would suspect this trope came about because for about the past 250 years France has had a rough recent record, appearing to have lost or needed substantial help in all five of the major wars it has fought - the UsefulNotes/SevenYearsWar, UsefulNotes/TheNapoleonicWars, [[UsefulNotes/FrancoPrussianWar the Franco-Prussian War,]] the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI First World War,]] and most importantly of all the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second World War]]. Funnily enough, this trope [[NewerThanTheyThink only came to prominence in 2003]] following France's refusal to support a US-led coalition's invasion and occupation of Iraq. Even after Americans themselves turned against the war, the portrayal stuck. France had been unpopular before, but previously the focus had been on France's perceived lack of gratitude, with UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle claiming that France "liberated herself" during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, rather than on them being a nation of cowards.
3rd Apr '17 3:29:31 PM Jormungar
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One would suspect this trope came about because for about the past 250 years France has had a rough recent record, appearing to have lost or needed substantial help in all five of the major wars it has fought - the UsefulNotes/SevenYearsWar, UsefulNotes/TheNapoleonicWars, [[UsefulNotes/FrancoPrussianWar the Franco-Prussian War,]] the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI First World War,]] and [[ShockingDefeatLegacy most shockingly]] (and importantly for this trope) the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second World War]] (and subsequently losing colonial wars in Algeria and Vietnam). Funnily enough, this trope [[NewerThanTheyThink only came to prominence in 2003]] following France's vociferous objections to a US-led coalition's invasion and occupation of Iraq.[[note]]Though the stereotype hardly subsided even after ''American'' popular opinion turned against the war.[[/note]] There was an under-current of 'the French are cowards' before then, but the prior focus was mainly on [[FrenchJerk their perceived lack of gratitude for outside help during the World Wars]] - with UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle [[DudeWheresMyRespect famously not endearing himself to anyone]] [[MetaphoricallyTrue for claiming that "France liberated herself" from Nazi Germany during]] UsefulNotes/WorldWarII. Regardless, the perception of France as a nation peopled by nothing but spineless cowards with no appetite for war could not be further from the truth.

France is one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in the history of ever it didn't get that way by being pacifistic. Until very recently France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness and willingness to expend lives and treasure]] [[HonorBeforeReason in the pursuit of even the most barren (to money-minded eyes) objectives.]] It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms are largely if not exclusively ''French'' - including "Attack," "Artillery," "Battle," "Cavalry," "Regiment," and many more.

The collective enthusiasm of the French for warfare lasted well into the first few months of World War One, which the French government chose to escalate into a global war when it took the opportunity to work together with Russia to destroy Germany. Unfortunately Russian disorganisation and infighting rendered their strength somewhat hollow, and so France ended up losing a comparable number of people (1.4 versus c.2 million) despite having just a third of the population (50 versus 160 million).[[note]] Interestingly, the grand total of US soldiers killed in ''all'' her military conflicts to date is about 1.3 million. Despite a few extra centuries of history, Britain is only slightly further head for a total nearing 2 million.[[/note]] On top of that another 4 million of a surviving total male population of 25 million (of all ages) were physically and [[ShellShockedVeteran mentally]] scarred, and the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 went on to kill ''twice as many as had died in the war''. The raw and unadulterated ''hatred'' most French people bore by the war's end against France's civilian-military leadership for starting and 'prolonging' the war (by insisting on a total victory) was immense, with films such as ''Film/PathsOfGlory'' barely doing it justice. By 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). So much of France's 'first rate' manpower (physically fit men of average or better intelligence) was lost that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed since then either.[[note]] That said, in World War Two 'a great big gap where the forty-something year old conscripts should be' was a problem for ''all'' the former combatants of World War One. The reason for this was not so much losses, as of course the majority of menfolk of those generations did in fact survive the war, but rather that relatively few of the survivors were ''not'' in valuable technical and leadership positions (and removing them from those would harm the economy). The same thing happened again, but ''worse'', with the post-WWII Soviet Union (after losing more than 15 million of a total male population of 90 million).[[/note]]

Today, in addition to maintaining [[UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades Western Europe's largest military]], the country also possesses [[UsefulNotes/TheUltimateResistance the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world]]. They also remain very prolific when it comes to weapons development as well, being one of the world's top exporters of arms. Events in TheNewTens have also put this trope on the way to being [[DiscreditedTrope discredited]]: France's 2013 intervention against Islamic militants in Northern Mali has been remarkably successful at preventing the remainder of the country from being overrun, and terrorism in France since 2015 (namely the ''Charlie Hebdo'' shooting, the November 13, 2015 terrorist attacks and the Bastille Day 2016 terrorist attack) has elicited a combination of sympathy, admiration, and sorrow in Western countries.

to:

One would suspect this trope came about because for about the past 250 years France has had a rough recent record, appearing to have lost or needed substantial help in all five of the major wars it has fought - the UsefulNotes/SevenYearsWar, UsefulNotes/TheNapoleonicWars, [[UsefulNotes/FrancoPrussianWar the Franco-Prussian War,]] the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI First World War,]] and [[ShockingDefeatLegacy most shockingly]] (and importantly for this trope) of all the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second World War]] (and subsequently losing colonial wars in Algeria and Vietnam). War]]. Funnily enough, this trope [[NewerThanTheyThink only came to prominence in 2003]] following France's vociferous objections refusal to support a US-led coalition's invasion and occupation of Iraq.[[note]]Though the stereotype hardly subsided even Iraq. Even after ''American'' popular opinion Americans themselves turned against the war.[[/note]] There was an under-current of 'the French are cowards' before then, war, the portrayal stuck. France had been unpopular before, but previously the prior focus was mainly on [[FrenchJerk their had been France's perceived lack of gratitude for outside help during the World Wars]] - gratitude, with UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle [[DudeWheresMyRespect famously not endearing himself to anyone]] [[MetaphoricallyTrue for claiming that "France liberated France "liberated herself" from Nazi Germany during]] UsefulNotes/WorldWarII. Regardless, the perception of France as during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, rather than them being a nation peopled by nothing but spineless cowards with no appetite for war could not be further from the truth.

France is one
of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in the history of ever it didn't get that way by being pacifistic. Until very recently France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness and willingness to expend lives and treasure]] [[HonorBeforeReason in the pursuit of even the most barren (to money-minded eyes) objectives.]] It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms are largely if not exclusively ''French'' - including "Attack," "Artillery," "Battle," "Cavalry," "Regiment," and many more.cowards.

In fact, the perception of France as a nation peopled by spineless cowards with no appetite for war could not be further from the truth. France is one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in history it didn't get that way by being timid. Until very recently France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness]] and willingness to expend lives and treasure for seemingly barren objectives. It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms are largely if not exclusively ''French'' - including "Battalion," "Artillery," "Cavalry," "Regiment" - even the word "Attack" itself is French.

The collective enthusiasm of the French for warfare lasted well into the first few months of World War One, which the French government chose to escalate into a global war when it took the opportunity to work together with Russia to destroy Germany. Unfortunately Russian disorganisation and infighting rendered One. However massive casualties soon dampened their strength somewhat hollow, and so enthusiasm, with France ended up losing a comparable number of people loosing more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 versus c.2 million) despite having just a third of than the population (50 versus 160 million).[[note]] Interestingly, the grand total of US soldiers killed United States has lost in ''all'' her military conflicts to date is about 1.3 million. Despite a few extra centuries of history, Britain is only slightly further head for a total nearing 2 million.[[/note]] its entire history. On top of that another 4 million of a surviving total male population of 25 million (of all ages) were physically and [[ShellShockedVeteran mentally]] scarred, and the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 went on to kill ''twice twice as many as had died in the war''. The raw and unadulterated ''hatred'' most war. By the end of the war the French people bore by the war's end against France's civilian-military leadership for starting were exhausted, and 'prolonging' the war (by insisting on a total victory) was immense, moreover completely disgusted with films such as ''Film/PathsOfGlory'' barely doing it justice.their leadership. By 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). So much of France's 'first rate' manpower (physically fit men of average or better intelligence) was lost Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed since then either.[[note]] That said, in World War Two 'a great big gap where the forty-something year old conscripts should be' was a problem for ''all'' the former combatants of World War One. The reason for 20 years.

Events in TheNewTens have put
this was not so much losses, as of course trope on the majority of menfolk of those generations did way to being [[DiscreditedTrope discredited]]: France's 2013 intervention against Islamic militants in fact survive Northern Mali has been remarkably successful at preventing the war, but rather that relatively few remainder of the survivors were ''not'' in valuable technical and leadership positions (and removing them country from those would harm being overrun, and terrorism in France since 2015 (namely the economy). The same thing happened again, but ''worse'', with ''Charlie Hebdo'' shooting, the post-WWII Soviet Union (after losing more than 15 million November 13, 2015 terrorist attacks and the Bastille Day 2016 terrorist attack) has elicited a combination of a total male population of 90 million).[[/note]]

sympathy, admiration, and sorrow in Western countries. Today, in addition to maintaining [[UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades Western Europe's largest military]], the country also possesses [[UsefulNotes/TheUltimateResistance the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world]]. They also remain very prolific when it comes to weapons development as well, being one of the world's top exporters of arms. Events in TheNewTens have also put this trope on the way to being [[DiscreditedTrope discredited]]: France's 2013 intervention against Islamic militants in Northern Mali has been remarkably successful at preventing the remainder of the country from being overrun, and terrorism in France since 2015 (namely the ''Charlie Hebdo'' shooting, the November 13, 2015 terrorist attacks and the Bastille Day 2016 terrorist attack) has elicited a combination of sympathy, admiration, and sorrow in Western countries.\n



Contrast UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades, and see also LaResistance - when the French say "We surrender!" it really means "Let's take the war underground!"

to:

Contrast UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades, and see also LaResistance - when the French say "We surrender!" it really means "Let's take the war underground!"
LaResistance.
29th Mar '17 9:43:36 PM Rebu
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** Averted by the Captain America of main continuity during the Winter Soldier arc. While in Paris, he reminisces on fighting alongside the French Resistance, and expresses his deep respect for the French people who, while their government surrendered, never stopped fighting back. (It's been speculated that this was written as a small TakeThat to the Ultimate example above.)

to:

** Averted by the Captain America of main continuity during the Winter Soldier arc. While in Paris, he reminisces on fighting alongside the French Resistance, and expresses his deep respect for the French people who, people; while their government surrendered, they never stopped fighting back. (It's been speculated that this was written as (Possible a small TakeThat to the Ultimate example above.)


Added DiffLines:

** Ultimate Cap later ended up in a French SHIELD base, with two soldiers who take issue with his prejudices. A few seconds later, he slips his cuffs, disarms the soldiers, subdues a third, and one of the tough-talking soldiers tries to surrender. This was supposed to be hypocritical and ironic, but this version of Cap eats ''heavily-armed platoons'' for breakfast, much less three normal guys. [[KnowWhenToFoldEm Surrendering is a perfectly sensible choice]].
8th Jan '17 1:50:01 PM nombretomado
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* [[UltimateMarvel Ultimate]] ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's "''SURRENDER??!!'' You think this letter on my head stands for ''France''?" This is probably the single most well-known ''anything'' that ''ever'' occurred in the Ultimate universe.

to:

* [[UltimateMarvel [[ComicBook/UltimateMarvel Ultimate]] ComicBook/CaptainAmerica's "''SURRENDER??!!'' You think this letter on my head stands for ''France''?" This is probably the single most well-known ''anything'' that ''ever'' occurred in the Ultimate universe.
1st Jan '17 4:50:56 PM JulianLapostat
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[[folder:Real life]]
* The UrExample of this trope could be traced back to 845. Yes, even before the french where actually "french". Charlamange and his Frankish empire had spread across a large portion of western europe and had an amazing track record of military victories. But as often happens, things started to fall apart when he died and his decendants started fighting over his legacy. Cue rougly 30 years after his death: emperor Charles the Bald had a bad time with HornyVikings using his rivers as motorways to raid the Frankish towns and monestaries. In 845, a large fleet of danish vikings came down the Seine. Charles decided to put a stop to the hooligans and had his army positioned on both sides of the Seine. When the vikings showed up, they decided to fight the smaller force and landed on that side of the river. The smaller army was proptly slaughtered and the survivors hung as sacrifices to Odin. The other army said something along the lines of [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere Vissez ceci, je suis hors d'ici!]] and ran away.
[[/folder]]
1st Jan '17 12:17:22 PM AgentSniff
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Added DiffLines:


[[folder:Real life]]
* The UrExample of this trope could be traced back to 845. Yes, even before the french where actually "french". Charlamange and his Frankish empire had spread across a large portion of western europe and had an amazing track record of military victories. But as often happens, things started to fall apart when he died and his decendants started fighting over his legacy. Cue rougly 30 years after his death: emperor Charles the Bald had a bad time with HornyVikings using his rivers as motorways to raid the Frankish towns and monestaries. In 845, a large fleet of danish vikings came down the Seine. Charles decided to put a stop to the hooligans and had his army positioned on both sides of the Seine. When the vikings showed up, they decided to fight the smaller force and landed on that side of the river. The smaller army was proptly slaughtered and the survivors hung as sacrifices to Odin. The other army said something along the lines of [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere Vissez ceci, je suis hors d'ici!]] and ran away.
[[/folder]]
9th Dec '16 10:37:05 AM Kalaong
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* Don't mention this trope to [[ComicBook/TheBoys The Frenchman]]. He'll point out the fact that you personally, even if you're American, did not in any way "save" France from the Germans, then school you on most of the meat of this article, and then he'll rip out your eyes and feed them to you.
5th Dec '16 11:51:18 AM Morgenthaler
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* Thoroughly {{Averted}} in ''Series/DeadliestWarrior''. French warriors are always described and depicted as extremely {{Badass}}, especially the French Musketeers who are described as crazy, fancy {{Chick Magnet}} medieval special forces, [[spoiler:and back up their description by destroying their Ming Warrior opponents by 670-230 in the simulation]]. Not to mention Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte, [[spoiler:who, respectively, [[UnderdogsNeverLose defeats William the Conqueror]], and loses against George Washington by a margin so close that any sane man would call it a tie]].

to:

* Thoroughly {{Averted}} in ''Series/DeadliestWarrior''. French warriors are always described and depicted as extremely {{Badass}}, badass, especially the French Musketeers who are described as crazy, fancy {{Chick Magnet}} medieval special forces, [[spoiler:and back up their description by destroying their Ming Warrior opponents by 670-230 in the simulation]]. Not to mention Joan of Arc and Napoleon Bonaparte, [[spoiler:who, respectively, [[UnderdogsNeverLose defeats William the Conqueror]], and loses against George Washington by a margin so close that any sane man would call it a tie]].
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