History Main / CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkeys

18th Feb '18 10:26:06 AM nombretomado
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However from this height, there was the fall. Since her defeat at Waterloo, France declined in political and military might and has had a rough recent record, being defeated in the majority of major wars it has fought since then. The wars which France ''has'' won have largely been as part of a coalition. The ultimate ShockingDefeatLegacy is World War II, in which not only did the French get conquered in six weeks, but they also formally surrendered and became quasi-allies to Hitler until the Allied landings and liberation in 1944. The reason for that defeat and capitulation were huge issues in France itself from TheForties to TheSeventies (along with much debate about the role of Frenchmen in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust). It must be noted that France lost more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. A large portion of the war was fought on French soil, and by 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years. Not to say the French simply stood aside: the French Resistance led by De Gaulle won much prestige and renown, and arguably saved the honor of France.

to:

However from this height, there was the fall. Since her defeat at Waterloo, France declined in political and military might and has had a rough recent record, being defeated in the majority of major wars it has fought since then. The wars which France ''has'' won have largely been as part of a coalition. The ultimate ShockingDefeatLegacy is World War II, in which not only did the French get conquered in six weeks, but they also formally surrendered and became quasi-allies to Hitler until the Allied landings and liberation in 1944. The reason for that defeat and capitulation were huge issues in France itself from TheForties to TheSeventies (along with much debate about the role of Frenchmen in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust). It must be noted that France lost more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. A large portion of the war was fought on French soil, and by 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober [[UsefulNotes/RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years. Not to say the French simply stood aside: the French Resistance led by De Gaulle won much prestige and renown, and arguably saved the honor of France.
12th Feb '18 12:29:01 AM Jormungar
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However from this height, there was the fall. Since her defeat in Waterloo, France declined in political and military might and has had a rough recent record, being defeated in the majority of major wars it has fought since then. The wars which France ''has'' won have largely been as part of a coalition. The ultimate ShockingDefeatLegacy is World War II, in which not only did the French get conquered in six weeks, but they also formally surrendered and became quasi-allies to Hitler until the Allied landings and liberation in 1944. The reason for that defeat and capitulation were huge issues in France itself from TheForties to TheSeventies (along with much debate about the role of Frenchmen in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust). It must be noted that France lost more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. A large portion of the war was fought on French soil, and by 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years. Not to say the French simply stood aside: the French Resistance led by De Gaulle won much prestige and renown, and arguably saved the honor of France.

to:

However from this height, there was the fall. Since her defeat in at Waterloo, France declined in political and military might and has had a rough recent record, being defeated in the majority of major wars it has fought since then. The wars which France ''has'' won have largely been as part of a coalition. The ultimate ShockingDefeatLegacy is World War II, in which not only did the French get conquered in six weeks, but they also formally surrendered and became quasi-allies to Hitler until the Allied landings and liberation in 1944. The reason for that defeat and capitulation were huge issues in France itself from TheForties to TheSeventies (along with much debate about the role of Frenchmen in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust). It must be noted that France lost more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. A large portion of the war was fought on French soil, and by 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years. Not to say the French simply stood aside: the French Resistance led by De Gaulle won much prestige and renown, and arguably saved the honor of France.
31st Jan '18 9:00:40 PM lempamo
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[[quoteright:319:[[Website/{{Google}} http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/frenchmilitarydefeats.jpg]]]]
[[caption-width-right:319:Admit it, you actually [[SchmuckBait went and did a search]], didn't you?]]

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[[quoteright:319:[[Website/{{Google}} [[quoteright:350:[[Website/{{Google}} http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/frenchmilitarydefeats.jpg]]]]
[[caption-width-right:319:Admit
org/pmwiki/pub/images/frenchmilitaryupdated.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Admit
it, you actually [[SchmuckBait went and did a search]], didn't you?]]
25th Jan '18 4:53:14 PM nombretomado
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* Averted in MallFight. Tox hails from France, and is one of the most powerful and violent Fighters.

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* Averted in MallFight.''Roleplay/MallFight''. Tox hails from France, and is one of the most powerful and violent Fighters.
20th Jan '18 8:50:33 PM marcoasalazarm
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* In the ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' / ''ComicBook/TheAvengers'' crossover ''FanFic/OriginStory'', after a diplomatic incident involving the illegal arrest of a French ambassador, President UsefulNotes/GeorgeWBush specifically points out that while they might joke about how the French are weak sisters, everyone knows that the ''truth'' is that a war between France and the United States would most likely end up in a PyrrhicVictory for the US.

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* In the ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' / ''ComicBook/TheAvengers'' crossover ''FanFic/OriginStory'', after a diplomatic incident involving the illegal arrest of a French ambassador, ambassador (namely, a Ben Grimm that absolutely refused to be part of the ''ComicBook/CivilWar'' and moved to France, and upon his return to the U.S. had his diplomatic immunity disregarded by SHIELD and thus was put in jail for being an unregistered super), President UsefulNotes/GeorgeWBush specifically points out that while they might joke about how the French are weak sisters, everyone knows that the ''truth'' is that a war between France and the United States would most likely end up in a PyrrhicVictory for the US.
7th Jan '18 9:50:38 AM nombretomado
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* The three rules for French victory: 1) be led by [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte a non-Frenchman]], 2) be led by [[JoanOfArc a woman]], 3) fight [[UsefulNotes/FrenchRevolution yourself]].

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* The three rules for French victory: 1) be led by [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte a non-Frenchman]], 2) be led by [[JoanOfArc [[UsefulNotes/JoanOfArc a woman]], 3) fight [[UsefulNotes/FrenchRevolution yourself]].
5th Jan '18 11:26:40 PM Jormungar
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In fact, the perception of France as a nation with people who have no appetite for war could not be further from the truth. France is one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in history it didn't get that way by being timid. For most of the last millennia, France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness]] and willingness to expend lives and treasure for seemingly barren objectives. It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms derive from, if not are exclusively ''French'': "Artillery", "Battalion", "Regiment", "Defense" -- even the word "Attack" itself is French. France was also the first nation to move to a {{conscription}}-based national army during UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution when in the span of [[ReignOfTerror a single year]], France became the most advanced and modern army on the planet, giving careers to many great generals, including UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte himself.

to:

In fact, the perception of France the French as a nation with people who have no appetite for war could not be further from the truth. France is one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in history it didn't get that way by being timid. For most of the last millennia, France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness]] and willingness to expend lives and treasure for seemingly barren objectives. It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms derive from, if not are exclusively ''French'': "Artillery", "Battalion", "Regiment", "Defense" -- even the word "Attack" itself is French. France was also the first nation to move to a {{conscription}}-based national army during UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution when in the span of [[ReignOfTerror a single year]], France became the most advanced and modern army on the planet, giving careers to many great generals, including UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte himself.
5th Jan '18 11:25:52 PM Jormungar
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This trope [[NewerThanTheyThink only came to prominence in 2003]] following France's refusal to support TheWarOnTerror in general, and the US-led coalition's invasion and occupation of Iraq. For some reasons, this trope persisted even after Americans themselves turned against the war, as evidenced by the fact that the next two presidents of both the Democratic and Republican parties (UsefulNotes/BarackObama, UsefulNotes/DonaldTrump) branded the war a mistake during their campaigns. But thanks to PopCulturalOsmosis, the stigma and first impressions stuck, with much selective misreading of history, involving accusations of UngratefulBastard, with invocations of UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle's hauteur about France having "liberated herself" during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, rather than on them being a nation of cowards and Johnny-come-latelys.

In fact, the perception of France as a nation with people who have no appetite for war [[TheSoCalledCoward could not be further from the truth]].[[note]]''La Marseillaise'' is still the national anthem hundreds of years later, graphic lyrics intact.[[/note]] France is one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in history it didn't get that way by being timid. For most of the last millennia, France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness]] and willingness to expend lives and treasure for seemingly barren objectives. It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms derive from, if not are exclusively ''French'': "Artillery", "Platoon", "Cavalry", "Battalion", "Regiment", "Enfilade"[[note]]a position offering a clear shot down a line of targets[[/note]], "Defilade"[[note]]a position offering shielding from direct fire[[/note]], "Defense", "Engage" -- even the word "Attack" itself is French. (It's also no coincidence that war-shaping intelligence and war-ending diplomacy are likewise full of French terms.) The modern concept of "total war" and {{conscription}}-based national army was also invented during UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution when in the span of [[ReignOfTerror a single year]], France became the most advanced and modern army on the planet, giving careers to many great generals, including UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte himself.

However, from this height, there was a precipitous fall. Since defeat in Waterloo, France has declined in political and military might. The wars which France has fought since then, and served on the winning side, has largely had it serve as part of a coalition (such as the UsefulNotes/CrimeanWar, UsefulNotes/WorldWarI), or they were victories against colonies with weak armies and outmoded systems (as in Algeria and Indo-China). It has lost individual wars to great powers ([[UsefulNotes/FrancoPrussianWar the Franco-Prussian War]] and the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second World War]]. It also lost to "weaker nations" [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico as in the case of Mexico]] and UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar (the French lost there before the Americans did). The ultimate ShockingDefeatLegacy is World War II, in which not only did the French get conquered in six weeks, but they also formally surrendered and became quasi-allies to Hitler until the Allied landings and liberation in 1944. The reason for that defeat and capitulation were huge issues in France itself from TheForties to TheSeventies (along with much debate about the role of Frenchmen in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust). It must be noted that France lost more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. On top of that another 4 million were physically and [[ShellShockedVeteran mentally]] scarred, followed by the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 that went on to kill twice as many as had died in the war. A large portion of the war was fought on French soil, and by 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years. Not to say the French simply stood aside: the numerically small French Resistance led by De Gaulle, by sheer force of will, won enough prestige, and not inconsiderable military actions, to get a seat at the victor's table as an Occupying Power of Germany, founding member status, and veto on the UN Security Council.[[note]]Objective analysis of the state of play in the summer of 1940 suggests the resolve of the French army had hardened, and despite appalling losses, was still capable and willing to fight on at a point where the German advance had begun to run out of steam; Mussolini's gratuitous entry into the war and invasion of Southern France was being contained and had in fact angered France and piqued national pride. The Italian invasion was being not only contained but turned back, and this realisation that France ''could'' successfully beat off an invasion was beginning to spread. In this analysis, the army had been beaten but not defeated; it was only the politicians who lost their nerve and capitulated.[[/note]]

Events in TheNewTens have put this trope on the way to being somewhat [[DiscreditedTrope discredited]] albeit not in the original context (namely PM Dominique de Villepin's criticism of military interventionism in the Middle East). France's 2013 intervention against Islamic militants in Northern Mali has been remarkably successful at preventing the remainder of the country from being overrun, and terrorism in France since 2015 (namely the ''Charlie Hebdo'' shooting, the November 13, 2015 terrorist attacks and the Bastille Day 2016 terrorist attack) has elicited a combination of sympathy, sorrow, and admiration in Western countries. Today, in addition to maintaining [[UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades Western Europe's largest military]], the country also possesses [[UsefulNotes/TheUltimateResistance the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world]]. They also remain very prolific when it comes to weapons development as well, being one of the world's top exporters of arms.

For reference, the phrase "Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys" was coined in 1995 by Ken Keeler, a writer for the television series ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons''.

to:

This trope [[NewerThanTheyThink only came to prominence in 2003]] following France's refusal to support TheWarOnTerror in general, and the US-led coalition's invasion and occupation of Iraq. For some reasons, It is unknown when exactly this trope persisted even after Americans themselves turned against the war, as evidenced by the fact that the next two presidents of both the Democratic and Republican parties (UsefulNotes/BarackObama, UsefulNotes/DonaldTrump) branded the war a mistake during their campaigns. But thanks to PopCulturalOsmosis, the stigma and stereotype first impressions stuck, with much selective misreading arose. The term itself was coined by writer Ken Keeler on an episode of history, involving accusations WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons in 1995, but the actual perception of UngratefulBastard, with invocations the French as a nation of cowards probably goes back to World War II, when in just six weeks the Germans thoroughly defeated and occupied France. Intra- and post-war perceptions of French arrogance and ungratefulness didn't help. [[note]]Such as UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle's hauteur about remark in a speech that France having had "liberated herself" during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, rather than on them the war, among other incidents.[[/note]] This trope was then applied retroactively through history, with French historical defeats and every subsequent defeat since being a nation used to "confirm" it. This trope is also so widespread because it jives with that ''other'' major negative stereotype Anglophones have about the French - that of cowards and Johnny-come-latelys.effeminacy. It shot back to prominence particularly in the US in 2003 when France refused to support the invasion of Iraq. While many other major nations also voted against it, France for whatever reason came in for a particularly acidic response from American conservatives.

In fact, the perception of France as a nation with people who have no appetite for war [[TheSoCalledCoward could not be further from the truth]].[[note]]''La Marseillaise'' is still the national anthem hundreds of years later, graphic lyrics intact.[[/note]] truth. France is one of the largest and most powerful countries in Europe, and like every other large country in history it didn't get that way by being timid. For most of the last millennia, France was the military terror of Europe, and her people were renowned for an [[BloodKnight almost idiotic bloodthirstiness]] and willingness to expend lives and treasure for seemingly barren objectives. It's no coincidence that in most European languages, military terms derive from, if not are exclusively ''French'': "Artillery", "Platoon", "Cavalry", "Battalion", "Regiment", "Enfilade"[[note]]a position offering a clear shot down a line of targets[[/note]], "Defilade"[[note]]a position offering shielding from direct fire[[/note]], "Defense", "Engage" "Defense" -- even the word "Attack" itself is French. (It's France was also no coincidence that war-shaping intelligence and war-ending diplomacy are likewise full of French terms.) The modern concept of "total war" and the first nation to move to a {{conscription}}-based national army was also invented during UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution when in the span of [[ReignOfTerror a single year]], France became the most advanced and modern army on the planet, giving careers to many great generals, including UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte himself.

However, However from this height, there was a precipitous the fall. Since her defeat in Waterloo, France has declined in political and military might. might and has had a rough recent record, being defeated in the majority of major wars it has fought since then. The wars which France has fought since then, and served on the winning side, has ''has'' won have largely had it serve been as part of a coalition (such as the UsefulNotes/CrimeanWar, UsefulNotes/WorldWarI), or they were victories against colonies with weak armies and outmoded systems (as in Algeria and Indo-China). It has lost individual wars to great powers ([[UsefulNotes/FrancoPrussianWar the Franco-Prussian War]] and the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second World War]]. It also lost to "weaker nations" [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico as in the case of Mexico]] and UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar (the French lost there before the Americans did).coalition. The ultimate ShockingDefeatLegacy is World War II, in which not only did the French get conquered in six weeks, but they also formally surrendered and became quasi-allies to Hitler until the Allied landings and liberation in 1944. The reason for that defeat and capitulation were huge issues in France itself from TheForties to TheSeventies (along with much debate about the role of Frenchmen in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust). It must be noted that France lost more soldiers in the First World War (1.4 million) than the United States has lost in its entire history. On top of that another 4 million were physically and [[ShellShockedVeteran mentally]] scarred, followed by the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 that went on to kill twice as many as had died in the war. A large portion of the war was fought on French soil, and by 1920 France had lost a greater proportion of her male population than ''any other combatant'' (including Russia, which went on to suffer [[RedOctober the Russian Civil War]]). Such were French losses that the army she fielded in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was actually ''smaller'' than the one she had in 1918, and the total population had barely changed in 20 years. Not to say the French simply stood aside: the numerically small French Resistance led by De Gaulle, by sheer force of will, Gaulle won enough prestige, much prestige and not inconsiderable military actions, to get a seat at renown, and arguably saved the victor's table as an Occupying Power honor of Germany, founding member status, and veto on the UN Security Council.[[note]]Objective analysis of the state of play in the summer of 1940 suggests the resolve of the French army had hardened, and despite appalling losses, was still capable and willing to fight on at a point where the German advance had begun to run out of steam; Mussolini's gratuitous entry into the war and invasion of Southern France was being contained and had in fact angered France and piqued national pride. The Italian invasion was being not only contained but turned back, and this realisation that France ''could'' successfully beat off an invasion was beginning to spread. In this analysis, the army had been beaten but not defeated; it was only the politicians who lost their nerve and capitulated.[[/note]]

France.

Events in TheNewTens have put this trope on the way to being somewhat [[DiscreditedTrope discredited]] albeit not in the original context (namely PM Dominique de Villepin's criticism of military interventionism in the Middle East).discredited]]. France's 2013 intervention against Islamic militants in Northern Mali has been remarkably successful at preventing the remainder of the country from being overrun, and terrorism in France since 2015 (namely the ''Charlie Hebdo'' shooting, the November 13, 2015 terrorist attacks and the Bastille Day 2016 terrorist attack) has elicited a combination of sympathy, sorrow, and admiration in Western countries. Today, in addition to maintaining [[UsefulNotes/GaulsWithGrenades Western Europe's largest military]], the country also possesses [[UsefulNotes/TheUltimateResistance the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world]]. They also remain very prolific when it comes to weapons development as well, being one of the world's top exporters of arms. \n\nFor reference, the phrase "Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys" was coined in 1995 by Ken Keeler, a writer for the television series ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons''.\n
22nd Dec '17 7:07:37 PM SeizureFerret
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** In the story of UsefulNotes/JoanOfArc, Homer remarks "Victory? We're French! We don't even have a word for it!!" [[note]] [[DontExplainTheJoke The English word "victory"]] [[YouShouldKnowThisAlready actually actually comes from the French "victoire."]] [[/note]]

to:

** In the story of UsefulNotes/JoanOfArc, Homer remarks "Victory? We're French! We don't even have a word for it!!" [[note]] [[DontExplainTheJoke The English word "victory"]] [[YouShouldKnowThisAlready actually actually comes from the French "victoire."]] [[/note]]
20th Dec '17 10:54:37 AM BarthVader
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* In ''{{VideoGame/Tropico}} 5'' one of the research options is "White Flag". Your advisor specifically mentions that you stole it from the French, as it was their only military invention of any importance.

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* In ''{{VideoGame/Tropico}} 5'' one of the research options is "White Flag". Your advisor specifically mentions that you stole it from the French, as it was their only military invention of any importance. The French version is an inversion: the flavour text got changed to [[https://i.redditmedia.com/MqiE5_iikzInxZ_6-KdnB2DjVi_Qkmexjcvi8CEFrtQ.png?w=1024&s=41e1c22f68e74b00c6d7c01df13c3669 this]]. [[note]]Warning, Presidente, I received a message from the game's translators. They refuse to translate "grotesque clichés about our country's so-called military cowardice." They sent us two student tariff's tickets for the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galerie_des_Batailles Galerie des Batailles]], a minimap to Verdun, and a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Lattre_de_Tassigny Marshall de Lattre]] fan-art. They served in the 152th Infantry Regiment.[[/note]]
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