History Main / BlackAndGrayMorality

11th Sep '17 2:45:28 PM BatmanKalEl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents''. Sure the good guys are often {{Jerkass}}es who make other's lives a living hell, but the villains are outright [[CardCarryingVillain Card-Carrying Villains]] out to take over the world.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents''. Sure the good guys protagonists are often {{Jerkass}}es who make other's lives a living hell, but the villains antagonists are outright [[CardCarryingVillain Card-Carrying Villains]] out to take over the world.
11th Sep '17 2:43:38 PM BatmanKalEl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents''. Sure the good guys are often {{Jerkass}}es who make other's lives a living hell, but the villains are outright {{Card Carrying Villain}}s out to take over the world.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents''. Sure the good guys are often {{Jerkass}}es who make other's lives a living hell, but the villains are outright {{Card Carrying Villain}}s [[CardCarryingVillain Card-Carrying Villains]] out to take over the world.
24th Aug '17 7:52:58 PM Luigifan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


If so, its a classic case of Black and Gray Morality.

to:

If so, its it's a classic case of Black and Gray Morality.



See also ShadesOfConflict, GreyAndGrayMorality, BlackAndWhiteMorality, CrapsackWorld, SlidingScaleOfIdealismVsCynicism. The inverse is ButNotTooEvil. Contrast with WhiteAndGreyMorality, where everyone has some nobility to them, and DesignatedHero, which is what happens when the story portrays a side as White when the audience see them as Gray (or Black).

to:

See also ShadesOfConflict, GreyAndGrayMorality, BlackAndWhiteMorality, CrapsackWorld, SlidingScaleOfIdealismVsCynicism. The inverse is ButNotTooEvil. Contrast with WhiteAndGreyMorality, where everyone has some nobility to them, and DesignatedHero, which is what happens when the story portrays a side as White when the audience see sees them as Gray (or Black).



** ''Comicbook/NemesisTheWarlock'' verges on BlackAndBlackMorality. BigBad Torquemada, leader of the human race (in the ''Nemesis'' universe, something like a cross between the heretic-burning medieval Catholic church turned UpToEleven and the Nazis), is a psychotic genocidal religious fascist god-dictator pledged to exterminate all non-human life--but Nemesis himself, who's ''essentially Satan'', has done things like openly lust for genocide right back at humanity and, at his worst, [[WouldHurtAChild intentionally kill a school bus full of children]]. Afterwards, he doesn't even seem to understand why it was a bad thing to do. Meanwhile, Nemesis' uncle Baal has a hobby of vivisecting humans and performing Mengele-ish experiments on them and his son Thoth hates and wants to destroy everything, including his father. Nemesis' allies the ComicBook/ABCWarriors are also extremely morally shady, given they've conducted massacres and frequently display genocidal urges towards humanity as well.
** DependingOnTheWriter, ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd''. He can be written in many different ways depending on the tone of the story (dramatic, comedic, horrific, etc.), but some of Dredd's actions can be very questionable. At his root he's a KnightTemplar JudgeJuryAndExecutioner, so he can go from heroically taking down violent criminals to ruthlessly crushing democratic protestors without shifting gear. And his enemies have included a genius SerialKiller, an apocalyptic PresidentEvil, a warmongering Soviet military junta, a [[TheCaligula deranged head judge]] who wanted to execute the whole city, and an undead OmnicidalManiac.

to:

** ''Comicbook/NemesisTheWarlock'' verges on BlackAndBlackMorality. BigBad Torquemada, leader of the human race (in the ''Nemesis'' universe, something like a cross between the heretic-burning medieval Catholic church turned UpToEleven and the Nazis), is a psychotic genocidal religious fascist god-dictator pledged to exterminate all non-human life--but life -- but Nemesis himself, who's ''essentially Satan'', has done things like openly lust for genocide right back at humanity and, at his worst, [[WouldHurtAChild intentionally kill a school bus full of children]]. Afterwards, he doesn't even seem to understand why it was a bad thing to do. Meanwhile, Nemesis' uncle Baal has a hobby of vivisecting humans and performing Mengele-ish experiments on them and his son Thoth hates and wants to destroy everything, including his father. Nemesis' allies allies, the ComicBook/ABCWarriors ComicBook/ABCWarriors, are also extremely morally shady, given they've conducted massacres and frequently display genocidal urges towards humanity as well.
** DependingOnTheWriter, ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd''. He can be written in many different ways depending on the tone of the story (dramatic, comedic, horrific, etc.), but some of Dredd's actions can be very questionable. At his root root, he's a KnightTemplar JudgeJuryAndExecutioner, so he can go from heroically taking down violent criminals to ruthlessly crushing democratic protestors without shifting gear. And his enemies have included a genius SerialKiller, an apocalyptic PresidentEvil, a warmongering Soviet military junta, a [[TheCaligula deranged head judge]] who wanted to execute the whole city, and an undead OmnicidalManiac.



* ''Comicbook/{{Lucifer}}'' is like this, but oddly, not ''ComicBook/TheSandman'' which was more Gray and Gray. The [[VillainProtagonist main character]] is, ya know, ''{{Satan}}'', who is caught between TheLegionsOfHell and the angels of heaven, who soon turn out not to be very nice either.

to:

* ''Comicbook/{{Lucifer}}'' is like this, but oddly, not ''ComicBook/TheSandman'' ''ComicBook/TheSandman'', which was more Gray and Gray. The [[VillainProtagonist main character]] is, ya know, ''{{Satan}}'', who is caught between TheLegionsOfHell and the angels of heaven, who soon turn out not to be very nice either.



** In fact, most modern comic writers fall into this category. Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, and Alan Moore just to name a few, often have morally ambigious protagonists.

to:

** In fact, most modern comic writers fall into this category. Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, and Alan Moore just (just to name a few, few) often have morally ambigious protagonists.



** There's some hope in the comic too, but in a rather absolutist way--V leaves the people of England a choice between taking responsibility and pulling together voluntarily, or starving.

to:

** There's some hope in the comic too, but in a rather absolutist way--V way -- V leaves the people of England a choice between taking responsibility and pulling together voluntarily, or starving.
3rd Aug '17 4:18:46 PM infernape612
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* SonicTheHedgehog fanfiction ''Fanfic/PrisonIslandBreak'' turns canon heroes into prison convicts, pitted against the Senior Corrections Officer Mephiles, and MadScientist Doctor Robotnik. The canon heroes have been turned into murderers, rapists, terrorists, and Mobsters. It even borders on ALighterShadeOfBlack. Even if you consider a character like Silver a Woobie of sorts, he's still a first-degree murderer.

to:

* SonicTheHedgehog The ''Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog'' fanfiction ''Fanfic/PrisonIslandBreak'' turns canon heroes into prison convicts, pitted against the Senior Corrections Officer Mephiles, and MadScientist Doctor Robotnik. The canon heroes have been turned into murderers, rapists, terrorists, and Mobsters. It even borders on ALighterShadeOfBlack. Even if you consider a character like Silver a Woobie of sorts, he's still a first-degree murderer.



* The ''{{Fanfic/Uplifted}}'' series is the epitome of this trope in Mass Effect fanfics. Of the two protagonists one of them. Joachim Hoch, is a Waffen SS Officer who is not shy about his viewpoints, charming and kind on the one hand, and violent in the other. A classic AntiHero. His Quarian counterpart and eventual lover, Hanala Jarva, is manipulative, lying, and brutal. The Quarians ally with the Nazis, because they would make the best shock troops when the time comes to retake Rannoch. While it is true that the Quarians plot a coup against Hitler, their motives are again less than pure. The Allies? Not as bad as the Nazis, but they would turn on the Quarians the first chance they get. Somewhat justified given that the fic is set during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII.

to:

* The ''{{Fanfic/Uplifted}}'' ''Fanfic/{{Uplifted}}'' series is the epitome of this trope in Mass Effect fanfics. Of the two protagonists one of them. Joachim Hoch, is a Waffen SS Officer who is not shy about his viewpoints, charming and kind on the one hand, and violent in the other. A classic AntiHero. His Quarian counterpart and eventual lover, Hanala Jarva, is manipulative, lying, and brutal. The Quarians ally with the Nazis, because they would make the best shock troops when the time comes to retake Rannoch. While it is true that the Quarians plot a coup against Hitler, their motives are again less than pure. The Allies? Not as bad as the Nazis, but they would turn on the Quarians the first chance they get. Somewhat justified given that the fic is set during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII.



* This trope basically comes with the HungerGames territory, and ''Fanfic/SomeSemblanceOfMeaning'' is no exception. Naturally, the story is full of examples of ChildrenForcedToKill. The only difference is that some (like the majority of the Careers...though even some of them have character depth) [[BloodKnight take great pleasure in shedding their opponents' blood]], whereas others ([[TheHero Vale]], [[FieryRedhead Fen]], even [[spoiler: [[BrokenAce former Career]] Obsidian]] aren't so fond of the way that the Capitol is forcing them to kill their fellow human beings. (That doesn't mean that, if someone is trying to kill them, that they won't kill them first, though.)
* In ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' fanfic ''Fanfic/DirtySympathy'', Apollo and Klavier are good people but will go through any length [[StrangersOnATrainPlotMurder possible to free each other from their abusers]]. Klavier frames [[spoiler: his brother]] for murder he assisted in committing and would have killed Phoenix Wright if Shadi Enigmar [[spoiler: hadn't tried beating Olga Orly.]] Apollo tries to manipulate [[spoiler: Machi]] into killing [[spoiler: Daryan]], but manages to cover up [[spoiler: Machi's [[MurderByMistake murder of Romain [=LeTouse=] ]] ]] and pin the blame on Daryan. But [[spoiler: Daryan]] is a DirtyCop who has the police force in his backpocket and [[spoiler: Kristoph]] is an AmoralAttorney and a BadBoss with [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections many connections]] who both threaten them with death and can get away with their murders.

to:

* This trope basically comes with the HungerGames ''Literature/TheHungerGames'' territory, and ''Fanfic/SomeSemblanceOfMeaning'' is no exception. Naturally, the story is full of examples of ChildrenForcedToKill. The only difference is that some (like the majority of the Careers...though even some of them have character depth) [[BloodKnight take great pleasure in shedding their opponents' blood]], whereas others ([[TheHero Vale]], [[FieryRedhead Fen]], even [[spoiler: [[BrokenAce former Career]] Obsidian]] aren't so fond of the way that the Capitol is forcing them to kill their fellow human beings. (That doesn't mean that, if someone is trying to kill them, that they won't kill them first, though.)
* In the ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' fanfic ''Fanfic/DirtySympathy'', Apollo and Klavier are good people but will go through any length [[StrangersOnATrainPlotMurder possible to free each other from their abusers]]. Klavier frames [[spoiler: his brother]] for murder he assisted in committing and would have killed Phoenix Wright if Shadi Enigmar [[spoiler: hadn't tried beating Olga Orly.]] Apollo tries to manipulate [[spoiler: Machi]] into killing [[spoiler: Daryan]], but manages to cover up [[spoiler: Machi's [[MurderByMistake murder of Romain [=LeTouse=] ]] ]] and pin the blame on Daryan. But [[spoiler: Daryan]] is a DirtyCop who has the police force in his backpocket and [[spoiler: Kristoph]] is an AmoralAttorney and a BadBoss with [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections many connections]] who both threaten them with death and can get away with their murders.



* [[FanFic/TheRiseOfDarthVulcan Darth Vulcan]] is a {{Jerkass}} criminal who has made lives of the Ponyville residents a living hell. But he does a have a code of honor, and his other opponents, like [[BadBoss Big Boss]], [[spoiler: [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Chrysalis]], and [[EvilOverlord Sombra]] ]] make him into a saint. Averted with his conflict with the Mane 6. They do make mistakes in dealing with him, but they are trying to protect themselves and are in fact trying to save Vulcan from the power he is abusing.

to:

* [[FanFic/TheRiseOfDarthVulcan Darth Vulcan]] is a {{Jerkass}} criminal who has made lives of the Ponyville residents a living hell. But he does a have a code of honor, and his other opponents, like [[BadBoss Big Boss]], [[spoiler: [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Chrysalis]], and [[EvilOverlord Sombra]] ]] Sombra]]]] make him into a saint. Averted with his conflict with the Mane 6. They do make mistakes in dealing with him, but they are trying to protect themselves and are in fact trying to save Vulcan from the power he is abusing.



* In ''Fanfic/ChrysalisVisitsTheHague'', this seems to be very much in effect. Both the Equestrians and humans are in equal parts jaundiced, smarmy and secretive (though nominally well-intentioned) in their attempts to successfully prossecute Chrysalis, whereas the queen herself is... well, [[HiveQueen Chrysalis]].

to:

* In ''Fanfic/ChrysalisVisitsTheHague'', this seems to be very much in effect. Both the Equestrians and humans are in equal parts jaundiced, smarmy and secretive (though nominally well-intentioned) in their attempts to successfully prossecute prosecute Chrysalis, whereas the queen herself is... well, [[HiveQueen Chrysalis]].



* ''FanFic/ShatteredReflection'': In stark contrast to the [[FireEmblemAwakening original.]] Aside from a few exception (namely Chrom, Lissa, and Emmeryn), everyone on the Shepherds and the forces of good have plenty of characteristics that could be considered unflattering, at best. Most of them are [[FantasticRacism racist,]] [[KnightTemplar judgmental, fanatical,]] or just plain old [[LawfulStupid stupid.]] Nonetheless, they at least have moral centers to balance out their flaws and are genuinely seeking to do good, even if they don't always get it right. Unlike the BigBad [[EldritchAbomination Grima.]]

to:

* ''FanFic/ShatteredReflection'': In stark contrast to the [[FireEmblemAwakening [[Main/FireEmblemAwakening original.]] Aside from a few exception exceptions (namely Chrom, Lissa, and Emmeryn), everyone on the Shepherds and the forces of good have plenty of characteristics that could be considered unflattering, at best. Most of them are [[FantasticRacism racist,]] [[KnightTemplar judgmental, fanatical,]] or just plain old [[LawfulStupid stupid.]] Nonetheless, they at least have moral centers to balance out their flaws and are genuinely seeking to do good, even if they don't always get it right. Unlike the BigBad [[EldritchAbomination Grima.]]
23rd Jul '17 5:02:57 AM MattP5557
Is there an issue? Send a Message


**** Much more [[AffablyEvil likable]] but just as bad businessmen (Hank Scorpio, Aristotle Amadopolis)



*** Smarmy, self-important parasites (Kent Brockman, Reverend Lovejoy)
*** Nihilistic punks (Dolph, Jimbo, & Kearney, the kids from Shelbyville)
*** Soul-sucking obstructionist nags (Helen Lovejoy, Agnes Skinner, Patty and Selma Bouvier)

to:

*** Smarmy, self-important parasites (Kent Brockman, Reverend Lovejoy)
Lovejoy, Roger Meyers Jr., Artie Ziff)
*** Nihilistic punks (Dolph, Jimbo, & Kearney, the kids from Shelbyville)
Shelbyville, Shauna)
*** Soul-sucking obstructionist nags (Helen Lovejoy, Agnes Skinner, Patty and Selma Bouvier)Bouvier, Lindsey Naegle)



*** Bitter cynics (Krusty, Comic Book Guy, Abraham)

to:

*** Bitter cynics (Krusty, Comic Book Guy, Abraham)Abraham, Mrs Hoover)



*** Punching bags (Arnie Pie, Hans Moleman, Martin)

to:

*** Punching bags (Arnie Pie, Hans Moleman, Martin)Martin, Gil, Kirk, Jack Marley)
26th Jun '17 12:52:27 AM bt8257
Is there an issue? Send a Message


If so, you've got a classic case of Black and Gray Morality.

to:

If so, you've got its a classic case of Black and Gray Morality.
4th Jun '17 4:42:18 PM H2SO4
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Invoked by his relationship with EvilCounterpart Black Knight, who's a lot nicer to underlings, but instead of killing E.V.O.s, experiments on and borderline enslaves them. She's also a BitchInSheepsClothing [[spoiler: who will MindRape anyone who acts against her, and, unlike White, cares more about personal power than solving problems]].

to:

** Invoked by his relationship with EvilCounterpart Black Knight, who's a lot nicer to underlings, but instead of killing E.V.O.s, experiments on and borderline enslaves them. She's also a BitchInSheepsClothing [[spoiler: who will MindRape anyone who acts against her, and, unlike White, cares more about personal power than solving problems]].problems. In way, this event led White to become kinder as a result, even going as far as to revoke the termination order on Rex by the end]].
16th May '17 10:27:51 PM IndustriousArc
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''FanFic/ShatteredReflection'': In stark contrast to the [[FireEmblemAwakening original.]] Aside from a few exception (namely Chrom, Lissa, and Emmeryn), everyone on the Shepherds and the forces of good have plenty of characteristics that could be considered unflattering, at best. Most of them are [[FantasticRacism racist,]] [[KnightTemplar judgmental, fanatical,]] or just plain old [[LawfulStupid stupid.]] Nonetheless, they at least have moral centers to balance out their flaws and are genuinely seeking to do good, even if they don't always get it right. Unlike the BigBad [[EldritchAbomination Grima.]]
6th May '17 3:18:00 PM JFrombaugh
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** A father who is [[TooDumbToLive so stupid he can easily endanger someone's life]] (Homer)
*** Smart, good-hearted idealists who have a laundry list of bizarre psychological and emotional issues and are prone to horrendous breakdowns (Lisa, Marge)



*** Smart, good-hearted idealists who have a laundry list of bizarre psychological and emotional issues and are prone to horrendous breakdowns (Lisa, Marge)



*** Loose cannons with the capacity to do both good and bad (Bart, Nelson, Moe)



*** Unscrupulous everymen with the capacity to do both good and bad (Homer, Bart, Nelson, Moe, Barney)



*** Clueless dopes (Lenny, Cletus, Otto, Ralph, pimply-faced teenager)

to:

*** Clueless dopes (Lenny, Barney, Cletus, Otto, Ralph, pimply-faced teenager)
3rd Apr '17 10:42:14 PM BatmanKalEl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* WesternAnimation/GravityFalls has many extremely shady characters as heroes, the biggest example being the unabashed petty criminal Grunkle Stan. However, their enemy is [[spoiler: quite literally a demon.]]

to:

* WesternAnimation/GravityFalls ''WesternAnimation/GravityFalls'' has many extremely shady characters as heroes, the biggest example being the unabashed petty criminal Grunkle Stan. However, their enemy is [[spoiler: quite literally a demon.]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 404. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.BlackAndGrayMorality