History Main / AscendedDemon

1st Apr '17 10:00:19 PM NOYB
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** One of the (many) nicknames for TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s Lady of Pain is "The fiend of blades", started by someone with the theory she is an ascended fiend. Given that he wasn't [[DeaderThanDead flayed]] (like people who give... less than flattering nicknames) and lived long enough to die of natural causes, this indicates there isn't really an issue with the term. (In ''Pages of Pain'' she remembered being a daughter of [[spoiler:Akadi and Poseidon and Set's fiance]]. That is, the Lady is a born Power, has the Pain sphere/domain as a gift, and would be a goddess if she didn't refuse to.)

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** One of the (many) nicknames for TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s Lady of Pain is "The fiend of blades", started by someone with the theory she is an ascended fiend. Given that he wasn't [[DeaderThanDead flayed]] (like people who give... less than flattering nicknames) and lived long enough to die of natural causes, this indicates there isn't really an issue with the term. (In ''Pages of Pain'' she remembered being a daughter of [[spoiler:Akadi and Poseidon and Set's fiance]].fiancé]]. That is, the Lady is a born Power, has the Pain sphere/domain as a gift, and would be a goddess if she didn't refuse to.)
14th Mar '17 3:23:24 PM maxwellsilver
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It's not all rainbows and lollipops though. Aside from the fear of backsliding into evil, the Ascended Demon has made enemies of his former kind,[[note]](which might not be much worse for them since they're AlwaysChaoticEvil, remember?)[[/note]] and likely faces the [[ReformedButRejected distrust]] of the good guys at the chance they're a CivilianVillain. On the whole, Ascended Demons are a good way to avoid/avert the TheUsualAdversaries and change the situation that states AlwaysChaoticEvil races are completely irredeemable. It's usually used to provide AnAesop that ''everyone'' can earn {{forgiveness}}.

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It's not all rainbows and lollipops though. Aside from the fear of backsliding into evil, the Ascended Demon has made enemies of his former kind,[[note]](which might not be much worse for them since they're AlwaysChaoticEvil, remember?)[[/note]] and likely faces the [[ReformedButRejected distrust]] of the good guys at the chance they're a CivilianVillain.FalselyReformedVillain. On the whole, Ascended Demons are a good way to avoid/avert the TheUsualAdversaries and change the situation that states AlwaysChaoticEvil races are completely irredeemable. It's usually used to provide AnAesop that ''everyone'' can earn {{forgiveness}}.
2nd Feb '17 3:40:32 PM margdean56
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* According to TheOtherWiki, official Catholic doctrine declares all {{Fallen Angel}}s i.e. demons irredemable by means of being completely unwilling to repent or return to Heaven. This is because all angels have SuperIntelligence. Whenever they have a choice they [[AwesomenessByAnalysis know exactly what they are doing]] and so never change their minds. Islamic traditions have it that djinn can be redeemed (though it helps they're only partly demon analogue). In Judaism, fallen angels are not necessarily evil, and many still are considered part of the heavenly host.

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* According to TheOtherWiki, official Catholic doctrine declares all {{Fallen Angel}}s i.e. demons irredemable irredeemable by means of being completely unwilling to repent or return to Heaven. This is because all angels have SuperIntelligence. Whenever they have a choice they [[AwesomenessByAnalysis know exactly what they are doing]] and so never change their minds. Islamic traditions have it that djinn can be redeemed (though it helps they're only partly demon analogue). In Judaism, fallen angels are not necessarily evil, and many still are considered part of the heavenly host.
2nd Feb '17 3:39:18 PM margdean56
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* In Tolkien's ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'', the Maia (angel) Ossë had thrown in his lot with [[{{Satan}} Melkor]], but eventually repented and returned to the good side. The book doesn't make clear just "how far" he fell, since he was not one of those who fell right at the beginning during the Ainulindalë. Nevertheless, he was fighting with the demons against the angels for a while there. Though in most ways he tried to make Arda 100% compatible with Catholicism, Tolkien explicitly disagreed with the idea that anyone could be truly irredemable.

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* In Tolkien's ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'', the Maia (angel) Ossë had thrown in his lot with [[{{Satan}} Melkor]], but eventually repented and returned to the good side. The book doesn't make clear just "how far" he fell, since he was not one of those who fell right at the beginning during the Ainulindalë. Nevertheless, he was fighting with the demons against the angels for a while there. Though in most ways he tried to make Arda 100% compatible with Catholicism, Tolkien explicitly disagreed with the idea that anyone could be truly irredemable.irredeemable.
30th Dec '16 11:41:38 AM narm00
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[[folder:Comicbooks]]

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[[folder:Comicbooks]][[folder:Comic Books]]



** sourcebook "Book of Exalted Deeds" on good-aligned characters has one chapter on forgiveness. It features an orc chieftain sparing a girl's village because she had saved his life years earlier and a good-aligned [[{{Cthulhumanoid}} illithid]].

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** The sourcebook "Book of Exalted Deeds" on Deeds", about good-aligned characters characters, has one a chapter on forgiveness. It features an orc chieftain sparing a girl's village because she had saved his life years earlier and a good-aligned [[{{Cthulhumanoid}} illithid]].



** One of the (many) nicknames for TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s Lady of Pain is "The fiend of blades", started by someone with the theory she is an ascended fiend. Given that he wasn't [[DeaderThanDead flayed]] (like people who give... less than flattering nicknames) and lived long enough to die of natural causes, this indicates there isn't really an issue with the term. (In ''Pages of Pain'' she remembered being a daughter of [[spoiler:Akadi and Poseidon and Set's fiance]]. That is, Lady is a born Power, has the Pain sphere/domain as a gift and would be a goddess if she didn't refuse to.)
** In [[http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/index.htm The Candlekeep Compendium]], there is a certain Erinyes [[spoiler: who is rescued by a gnome adventurer as a mission from a ChaoticGood deity.]] There was a chant about the agathinon Janarr and erinyes Nalura working in mortal disguise on the Prime. They [[DuelOfSeduction sort of]] just did their jobs--she tried to seduce him, he tried to turn her attitude up to [[ThePowerOfLove celestial standards]]. Before they knew whom exactly they faced, ''both'' succeeded. They [[StarCrossedLovers had to hide from their respective bosses]] from that point on, though. (Note that the story never explicitly states that Nalura shifted in alignment as a result of falling in love. Most fans just ''assume'' such.)

to:

** One of the (many) nicknames for TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'s Lady of Pain is "The fiend of blades", started by someone with the theory she is an ascended fiend. Given that he wasn't [[DeaderThanDead flayed]] (like people who give... less than flattering nicknames) and lived long enough to die of natural causes, this indicates there isn't really an issue with the term. (In ''Pages of Pain'' she remembered being a daughter of [[spoiler:Akadi and Poseidon and Set's fiance]]. That is, the Lady is a born Power, has the Pain sphere/domain as a gift gift, and would be a goddess if she didn't refuse to.)
** In [[http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/index.htm The Candlekeep Compendium]], there is a certain Erinyes [[spoiler: who is rescued by a gnome adventurer as a mission from a ChaoticGood deity.]] ]]
**
There was a chant about the agathinon Janarr and erinyes Nalura working in mortal disguise on the Prime. They [[DuelOfSeduction sort of]] just did their jobs--she jobs -- she tried to seduce him, he tried to turn her attitude up to [[ThePowerOfLove celestial standards]]. Before they knew whom exactly they faced, ''both'' succeeded. They [[StarCrossedLovers had to hide from their respective bosses]] from that point on, though. (Note that the story never explicitly states that Nalura shifted in alignment as a result of falling in love. Most fans just ''assume'' such.)



** Another succubus example, Eludecia the Succubus Paladin, who is featured prominently in the 3rd Edition Module ''The Legend of the Silver Skeleton''. A succubus who reformed after falling in love with a celestial lord, she took up armor and sword and fought other demons as a paladin. But she made too many enemies, eventually falling victim to the marilith Aishpara, general of a powerful balor. Eludecia was beaten, but not killed; Aishpara used a powerful spell that [[StrippedToTheBone stripped her to the bone]] and then turned said bones to silver, placing the skeleton inside a gelatinous cube. Due to her Ring of Regeneration, poor Eludecia's couldn't die, her body [[AndIMustScream continually regenerating and dissolving]] and [[BadassInDistress trapped in a sealed catacombs until]], hopefully, she is rescued by the {{Player Character}}s in the storyline.
** ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'' has a whole race of [[OurAngelsAreDifferent Celestials]], called the Peri, who are either {{Fallen Angel}}s who managed to redeem themselveves or the children thereof. They take the form of albino humans with huge wings of flames that mimic the appearance of feathers.

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** Another succubus example, Eludecia the Succubus Paladin, who is featured prominently in the 3rd Edition Module ''The Legend of the Silver Skeleton''. A succubus who reformed after falling in love with a celestial lord, she took up armor and sword and fought other demons as a paladin. But she made too many enemies, eventually falling victim to the marilith Aishpara, general of a powerful balor. Eludecia was beaten, but not killed; Aishpara used a powerful spell that [[StrippedToTheBone stripped her to the bone]] and then turned said bones to silver, placing the skeleton inside a gelatinous cube. Due to her Ring of Regeneration, poor Eludecia's Eludecia couldn't die, her body [[AndIMustScream continually regenerating and dissolving]] and [[BadassInDistress trapped in a sealed catacombs until]], hopefully, she is rescued by the {{Player Character}}s in the storyline.
** ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'' has a whole race of [[OurAngelsAreDifferent Celestials]], called the Peri, who are either {{Fallen Angel}}s who managed to redeem themselveves themselves or the children thereof. They take the form of albino humans with huge wings of flames that mimic the appearance of feathers.



* Another ''World of Darkness'' gameline with this possibility is ''[[TabletopGame/DemonTheFallen Demon: the Fallen]]''. The titular demons have the choice to either try to recover their lost grace by reaching [[KarmaMeter zero torment]] (only possible with RP, no game system allowed that) or spurning their newfound humanity and chance at redemption by SlowlySlippingIntoEvil. Unlike Vampire, Demons who eschew use of their demonic powers and OneWingedAngel form are at a disadvantage compared to their morally laxer peers.
* In the Mystic China RPG from Palladium games there's a literal Ascended Demon class, where as you gain levels you lose demonic traits and gain human traits until if one survives all the pitfalls the character will be reborn as a human being with only dim memories of its former life.

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* Another ''World of Darkness'' gameline with this possibility is ''[[TabletopGame/DemonTheFallen Demon: the Fallen]]''. ''TabletopGame/DemonTheFallen''. The titular demons have the choice to either try to recover their lost grace by reaching [[KarmaMeter zero torment]] (only possible with RP, no game system allowed allows that) or spurning their newfound humanity and chance at redemption by SlowlySlippingIntoEvil. Unlike Vampire, Demons who eschew use of their demonic powers and OneWingedAngel form are at a disadvantage compared to their morally laxer peers.
* In the Mystic China RPG from Palladium games Games there's a literal Ascended Demon class, where as you gain levels you lose demonic traits and gain human traits until if one survives all the pitfalls the character will be reborn as a human being with only dim memories of its former life.



* ''{{Rifts}}'' has the Reformed Demon class from the ''China 2'' {{Sourcebook}}. These are lesser demons who have been captured by a special brand of demon hunter, and convinced to give up their demonic ways. The process of reforming slowly turns the demon into a human, which means they are unique in that they become ''weaker'' as they gain levels. However, after a certain point they gain access to Mystic Martial Arts, which compensates for their lack of demonic powers.

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* ''{{Rifts}}'' ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}'' has the Reformed Demon class from the ''China 2'' {{Sourcebook}}. These are lesser demons who have been captured by a special brand of demon hunter, and convinced to give up their demonic ways. The process of reforming slowly turns the demon into a human, which means they are unique in that they become ''weaker'' as they gain levels. However, after a certain point they gain access to Mystic Martial Arts, which compensates for their lack of demonic powers.
13th Dec '16 8:47:57 PM MurlocAggroB
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Added DiffLines:

** In ''Legion'', a [[AlwaysChaoticEvil Dread Lord]] named Lothraxion can be found in the Paladin class hall. He was initially a part of the Burning Legion, but hated his comrades' violence and betrayed his master. He's still a [[HorrifyingHero massive, winged, vampire-monster with hooves]], but his horns are gone and he glows brightly. He's even classified as a humanoid instead of a demon.
3rd Dec '16 3:32:21 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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[[folder:Fan Fiction]]
* In ''Fanfic/ManchesterLost'', A ''Literature/GoodOmens'' fic, [[spoiler: NobleDemon Crowley]] becomes this through the PowerOfLove. [[spoiler: He reverts back in the sequel, ''Fanfic/ParadiseThwarted''. Opposites attract etc.]]
* In the supercrossover military fanfiction series, ''FanFic/TheTerminatorsArmyOfLegend'', Necrodusk, a high ranking "archdemon" born into series' central protagonist Alex Vaughn is awakened by a fallen comrade during a vicious HoldTheLine battle that was pitting the small ten to twenty member Alpha Company against an encircling division of nearly a thousand LKA (the main antagonistic force of Volumes I and II). With Necrodusk possessing Alex, transforming him into an EldritchAbomination, they wasted the division and held until reinforcements could arrive. With Necrodusk now awakened from his slumber, he often served as a secondary, more sinister conscience for Alex until gradually growing to befriend his host, even going so far as to reconsider his morality. One of Alex's comrades, Terrias, is slain in battle, and the duo are forced to undergo a hellish gladiatorial-style stay in the Devil's Arena. They escape, and as {{Satan}} is about to close the gateway out of Hell, Necrodusk jumps to the rescue to fend them off, allowing Alex and Terrias the time they needed to make their escape back to Earth, following with his call, "I have seen the light". When another antagonistic force, the [[LegionOfDoom ''Caeda'' Militia]], travel to Installation 02 of the Halo array to resurrect old enemies of the Terminator Militia, Necrodusk is released from his prison, returning to his host, having abandoned his demonic ways, desiring to regain his grace. [[spoiler:It is later discovered that he is one half of the [[TheGrimReaper one true Reaper]], the Archangel Messorem, the other half being reincarnated into Alex, and that a [[TheProphecy prophecy]] states that Messorem will be reformed and brought back into Heaven to usher in the apocalypse.]]
[[/folder]]



[[folder:Fan Fiction]]
* In ''Fanfic/ManchesterLost'', A ''Literature/GoodOmens'' fic, [[spoiler: NobleDemon Crowley]] becomes this through the PowerOfLove. [[spoiler: He reverts back in the sequel, ''Fanfic/ParadiseThwarted''. Opposites attract etc.]]
* In the supercrossover military fanfiction series, ''FanFic/TheTerminatorsArmyOfLegend'', Necrodusk, a high ranking "archdemon" born into series' central protagonist Alex Vaughn is awakened by a fallen comrade during a vicious HoldTheLine battle that was pitting the small ten to twenty member Alpha Company against an encircling division of nearly a thousand LKA (the main antagonistic force of Volumes I and II). With Necrodusk possessing Alex, transforming him into an EldritchAbomination, they wasted the division and held until reinforcements could arrive. With Necrodusk now awakened from his slumber, he often served as a secondary, more sinister conscience for Alex until gradually growing to befriend his host, even going so far as to reconsider his morality. One of Alex's comrades, Terrias, is slain in battle, and the duo are forced to undergo a hellish gladiatorial-style stay in the Devil's Arena. They escape, and as {{Satan}} is about to close the gateway out of Hell, Necrodusk jumps to the rescue to fend them off, allowing Alex and Terrias the time they needed to make their escape back to Earth, following with his call, "I have seen the light". When another antagonistic force, the [[LegionOfDoom ''Caeda'' Militia]], travel to Installation 02 of the Halo array to resurrect old enemies of the Terminator Militia, Necrodusk is released from his prison, returning to his host, having abandoned his demonic ways, desiring to regain his grace. [[spoiler:It is later discovered that he is one half of the [[TheGrimReaper one true Reaper]], the Archangel Messorem, the other half being reincarnated into Alex, and that a [[TheProphecy prophecy]] states that Messorem will be reformed and brought back into Heaven to usher in the apocalypse.]]
[[/folder]]




* Meridiana was a succubus believed to help Sylvester the second become the Pope. This was meant as slander most likely but since his time as head of the Catholic Church is best known for cracking down on Simony, promoting scientific studies, building musical instruments such as a hydrological organ and teaching grammar, his fans concluded that if Meridiana helped put him in power, she was a benevolent succubus.

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* Meridiana was a succubus [[HornyDevils succubus]] believed to help Sylvester the second become the Pope. This was meant as slander most likely but since his time as head of the Catholic Church is best known for cracking down on Simony, promoting scientific studies, building musical instruments such as a hydrological organ and teaching grammar, his fans concluded that if Meridiana helped put him in power, she was a benevolent succubus.
26th Oct '16 4:30:28 AM Mhazard
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Not to be confused with [[DemonOfHumanOrigin ascending (descending?) to demonhood]]. Compare GrewBeyondTheirProgramming, when [=AIs=] or robots ascend to a more humanlike level of emotion and development.

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Not to be confused with [[DemonOfHumanOrigin ascending (descending?) to demonhood]]. Compare GrewBeyondTheirProgramming, when [=AIs=] or robots ascend to a more humanlike level of emotion and development.
development. If a human redeems by faith, see HeelFaithTurn.
2nd Aug '16 4:34:09 PM CaptainCrawdad
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* ''Series/{{Angel}}'' wanted to be this.
** From that series and its [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer parent series]], Spike arguably became this as he voluntarily chose to have his soul restored (whereas Angel's was forced upon him and always forced back in unwillingly when he loses it). The comic continuation of the series further reinforces this: vampires (apart from the ensouled Spike and Angel) are established to be AlwaysChaoticEvil due to a lack of a soul but after temporarily losing his own soul, Spike ''remains good'' and only does not take his soul back (initially) because he wanted to give it to someone else.

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* ''Series/{{Angel}}'' ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' and ''Series/{{Angel}}'':
** Angel
wanted to be this.
** From that series and its [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer parent series]], Spike arguably became this as he voluntarily chose to have his soul restored (whereas Angel's was forced upon him and always forced back in unwillingly when he loses it). The comic continuation of the series further reinforces this: vampires (apart from the ensouled Spike and Angel) are established to be AlwaysChaoticEvil due to a lack of a soul but after temporarily losing his own soul, Spike ''remains good'' and only does not take his soul back (initially) because he wanted to give it to someone else.
2nd Aug '16 4:33:09 PM CaptainCrawdad
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** This is the attitude of any warlock (a practitioner of Black Magic) who tries to become a wizard (a practitioner of good magic); Black Magic gets you DrunkOnTheDarkSide extremely easily, and even if the warlock has a MyGodWhatHaveIDone and tries to reform, it's all too easy to slip back into it. As such, very few warlocks are able to reform, and while this is partly because the White Council executes ''anyone'' (even teenagers who genuinely don't know what they're doing) who performs Black Magic unless a member of the Council puts his own life on the line to mentor the warlock into becoming a proper wizard, it is suggested that reformed warlocks would be pretty rare even without the summary executions. Harry Dresden himself is one such reformed warlock, and even though he only performed Black Magic once in self defence when he was a kid, he fully recognises the ease of recidivism and, much as he despises the Council's arrogance and self-righteousness, he has to concede that in the majority of cases their policy is probably necessary. However, when he truly believes the accidental warlock [[spoiler: Molly Carpenter]] has a chance of reforming, he fights tooth and nail to give her that chance.
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