History Main / ArbitraryGunPower

16th Sep '16 11:54:13 AM Kadorhal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series is a huge offender in this regard. A shot from one of Dante's handguns, at least [[CutscenePowerToTheMax in gameplay]], is about as powerful as a mosquito bite. Of course, [[GunsAkimbo he wields two]], they have BottomlessMagazines, and they can be [[MoreDakka rapid-fired]] or [[ChargedAttack charged up]], but as far as raw damage goes you're better off marching up to the enemy and slashing it to death. In this case, it may be as the enemies are typically demons they're highly resistant to small arms even when shot in the head - Dante himself actually takes a bullet to the forehead on at least one occasion and is only mildly annoyed about it. When you have to overcome their healing, slashing them up with an enormous sword would likely be more efficient.

to:

* The ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series is a huge offender in this regard. A shot from one of Dante's handguns, at least [[CutscenePowerToTheMax in gameplay]], is about as powerful as a mosquito bite. Of course, [[GunsAkimbo he wields two]], they have BottomlessMagazines, and they can be [[MoreDakka rapid-fired]] or [[ChargedAttack charged up]], but as far as raw damage goes you're better off marching up to the enemy and slashing it to death. In this case, it may be as the enemies are typically demons they're highly resistant to small arms even when shot in the head - Dante himself Dante, even only being half-demon himself, actually takes a bullet to the forehead on at least one occasion in a cutscene and is only mildly annoyed about it. When you have to overcome their healing, slashing them up with an enormous sword would likely be more efficient.



* In ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' guns, bows and crossbows of the same level are generally equal in power and choice depends on what you can get your hands on. In hands of warriors and rogues, they are next to useless (and in Mists Of Pandaria ExpansionPack, unusable at all), while when used by Hunter class they are as deadly as magic and other weapons of other classes (that is to say, ''still'' not ''nearly'' as deadly as they would be in real life).

to:

* In ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' guns, bows and crossbows of the same level are generally equal in power and choice depends on what you can get your hands on. In hands of warriors and rogues, they are next to useless (and in Mists Of Pandaria the ''Mists of Pandaria'' ExpansionPack, unusable at all), while when used by Hunter class they are as deadly as magic and other weapons of other classes (that is to say, ''still'' not ''nearly'' as deadly as they would be in real life).



* The hunting rifle in the ''VideoGame/Left4Dead'' series is based on a weapon that should be firing the same bullets as the assault rifle, and is noted for a lack of accuracy in the real world, but in-game it's a pixel-perfectly-accurate terror that will penetrate and [[OneHitPolykill instantly kill as many zombies as you can line up in one shot]]; meanwhile the assault rifle will barely penetrate one zombie and often requires multiple bullets to put them down. The pistol-versus-rifle issue is at least played somewhat closer to reality, as the standard pistols suffer in accuracy and damage per shot compared to any of the primary weapons, though the HandCannon Magnum introduced in ''VideoGame/Left4Dead2'' trades capacity and fire rate for damage close to the sniper rifles' - even the ridiculously-tough common Infected in Realism mode can take two shots from a sniper rifle with no problem, but drop on the spot from a Magnum shot.

to:

* The hunting rifle in the ''VideoGame/Left4Dead'' series is based on a weapon that should be firing the same bullets as the assault rifle, and is noted for a lack of accuracy in the real world, but in-game it's a pixel-perfectly-accurate terror that will penetrate and [[OneHitPolykill instantly kill as many zombies as you can line up in one shot]]; meanwhile the assault rifle will barely penetrate one zombie and often requires multiple bullets to put them down. The pistol-versus-rifle issue is at least played somewhat closer to reality, as the standard pistols suffer in accuracy and damage per shot compared to any of the primary weapons, though but because they have [[BottomlessMagazines infinite reserve ammo]] and a high yet controllable maximum rate of fire, a lot of players still swear by them (even without the achievement for completing a campaign using nothing but the pistols). Meanwhile, the HandCannon Magnum introduced in ''VideoGame/Left4Dead2'' trades capacity and fire rate for damage jacked-up close to that of the sniper rifles' - hell, even the Realism mode's ridiculously-tough common Infected in Realism mode can take tank two or three shots from a sniper rifle with no problem, but drop on the spot will die where they stand from a Magnum shot.



* The Spanish film, ''800 Bullets'' includes a scene where the BadassGrandpa blows up a backhoe with one shot from a lever-action rifle.

to:

* The Spanish film, film ''800 Bullets'' includes a scene where the BadassGrandpa blows up a backhoe with one shot from a lever-action rifle.



* In Sci-Fi RPG ''{{Traveller}}'', crossbows have better damage than any slug pistol, better range than any energy pistol, and better accuracy than any rifle - some of the deadliest weapons of the Space Age!

to:

* In Sci-Fi RPG ''{{Traveller}}'', ''TabletopGame/{{Traveller}}'', crossbows have better damage than any slug pistol, better range than any energy pistol, and better accuracy than any rifle - some of the deadliest weapons of the Space Age!



* {{Franchise/Warhammer40000}} has an odd version, in that lasguns (which are explicitly more powerful than modern assault rifles, but still among the weakest weapons in the game) have no armor penetration value. This means a normal human wearing a flak jacket has a 1 in 3 chance of shrugging off a lethal wound, under the justification that their "armor" which covers at best their upper chest, shoulders, and head, stopped it. And then, other weapons pack the same strength as the lasgun, but are impossibly better at piercing armor despite no other change in performance. For example, the hellgun, which has just as much theoretical power as the lasgun, is capable of ignoring space marine armor. That puts it a factor of two better at piercing armor than the Marines' own full-auto-rocket-propelled-grenade-firing guns.

to:

* {{Franchise/Warhammer40000}} {{TabletopGame/Warhammer 40000}} has an odd version, in that lasguns (which are explicitly more powerful than modern assault rifles, but still among the weakest weapons in the game) have no armor penetration value. This means a normal human wearing a flak jacket has a 1 in 3 chance of shrugging off a lethal wound, under the justification that their "armor" which covers at best their upper chest, shoulders, and head, stopped it. And then, other weapons pack the same strength as the lasgun, but are impossibly better at piercing armor despite no other change in performance. For example, the hellgun, which has just as much theoretical power as the lasgun, is capable of ignoring space marine armor. That puts it a factor of two better at piercing armor than the Marines' own full-auto-rocket-propelled-grenade-firing guns.



* The OldWorldOfDarkness used this trope but not as flagrantly as many {{Role Playing Game}}s. All guns were fairly lethal, though a bit less so than real life weapons. Additionally, a weapon's lethality was more like real world lethality than many games. Velocity and caliber, not rate of fire, dictated damage. Supernatural creatures only resisted firearms by virtue of their powers, not because the guns themselves weren't deadly. Finally, a shot with more successes was a more well-placed shot and rolled more dice for damage. It was still extraordinarily difficult to kill anyone instantly with a handgun, however, regardless of how many successes the attack rolled since the damage dice would usually reduce this to a survivable but deadly level.

to:

* The OldWorldOfDarkness TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness used this trope but not as flagrantly as many {{Role Playing Game}}s. All guns were fairly lethal, though a bit less so than real life weapons. Additionally, a weapon's lethality was more like real world lethality than many games. Velocity and caliber, not rate of fire, dictated damage. Supernatural creatures only resisted firearms by virtue of their powers, not because the guns themselves weren't deadly. Finally, a shot with more successes was a more well-placed shot and rolled more dice for damage. It was still extraordinarily difficult to kill anyone instantly with a handgun, however, regardless of how many successes the attack rolled since the damage dice would usually reduce this to a survivable but deadly level.



* ''VideoGame/CallOfCthulhuDarkCornersOfTheEarth'' features both a 1911 pistol and a Model 1917 revolver, with the revolver being more powerful. In reality both guns fire the same .45 ACP round. The fully-automatic Thompson uses the same round. None of these weapons share an ammo pool.

to:

* ''VideoGame/CallOfCthulhuDarkCornersOfTheEarth'' features both a 1911 pistol and a Model 1917 revolver, with the revolver being more powerful. In reality both guns fire the same .45 ACP round. The fully-automatic Thompson uses the same round. None of these weapons [[UniversalAmmunition share an ammo pool.pool]], either.
10th Sep '16 7:20:16 PM Kadorhal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** ''World At War'' gets ridiculous with its laughably-underpowered, damn-near-useless M1 Garand. As the basic US starter weapon, it's nerfed to the point that you'd think it was chambered in .22 Short. But the M1 carbine ([[MisidentifiedWeapons incorrectly called the [=M1A1=] in the game]]; that would actually be the paratrooper model with the folding stock) is somehow a HandCannon. Except that in RealLife, the .30-06 semiauto Garand was (and still is) known for being exceptionally accurate, exceptionally durable and reliable, and was a proven "one shot, one kill" man-stopper, meaning the American GI was significantly better armed than his British, Russian, German, Japanese, or Italian counterparts. The carbine, on the other hand, was lightweight and durable, but its .30 Carbine round lacked the punch of the .30-06, and could sometimes require half or more of its magazine to put down a charging Japanese berserker. That's also ignoring the purest embodiment of this trope with the Garand and the bolt-action rifles, which will have their damage ratings boosted upon the attachment of a sniper scope for absolutely zero reason.

to:

** ''World At War'' gets ridiculous with its laughably-underpowered, damn-near-useless M1 Garand. As the basic US starter weapon, it's nerfed to the point that you'd think it was chambered in .22 Short. But the M1 carbine ([[MisidentifiedWeapons incorrectly called the [=M1A1=] in the game]]; that would actually be the paratrooper model with the folding stock) is somehow a HandCannon.HandCannon because it's the last weapon unlocked in the game. Except that in RealLife, the .30-06 semiauto Garand was (and still is) known for being exceptionally accurate, exceptionally durable and reliable, and was a proven "one shot, one kill" man-stopper, meaning the American GI was significantly better armed than his British, Russian, German, Japanese, or Italian counterparts. The carbine, on the other hand, was lightweight and durable, but its .30 Carbine round lacked the punch of the .30-06, and could sometimes require half or more of its magazine to put down a charging Japanese berserker. That's also ignoring the purest embodiment of this trope with the Garand and the bolt-action rifles, which will have their damage ratings boosted upon the attachment of a sniper scope for absolutely zero reason.



** The SMG in ''VideoGame/Halo3ODST'' is rather odd. Despite only firing 5x23mm sub machine gun rounds, the weapon seems to drop Brute [[DeflectorShields Shields]] just as effectively as the much larger (and logically more powerful) 7.62x51mm rounds used by the assault rifle. This may be justified, as the SMG in ''ODST'' (as well as in ''Halo 2'' and ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'') does have a faster rate of fire.

to:

** The SMG in ''VideoGame/Halo3ODST'' is rather odd. Despite only firing 5x23mm sub machine gun rounds, the weapon seems to drop Brute [[DeflectorShields Shields]] shields]] just as effectively as the much larger (and logically more powerful) 7.62x51mm rounds used by the assault rifle. This may be justified, as the SMG in ''ODST'' (as well as in ''Halo 2'' and ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'') does have a faster rate of fire.



** This shows up in every ''Resident Evil'' game with automatic weapons. Even 5.56 or 7.62mm automatic rifles that should completely devastate an enemy in a single quick burst will require a good four or five seconds of concentrated fire to drop one mook, while your substantially weaker-in-real-life 9mm handguns do more damage per shot and your also much-weaker-in-real-life .357 or .44 Magnum revolver is a consistent OneHitKill. Ostensibly, this is done for the sake of gameplay balance, since if your assault rifles were as effective in-game as they are in real life, combined with the percentage-based ammo count the earlier games give them ([=RE3=] lets an M4 magazine hold about ten times as many rounds as it does in real life), [[GameBreaker you wouldn't need to use much else]].

to:

** This shows up in every ''Resident Evil'' game with automatic weapons. Even 5.56 or 7.62mm automatic rifles that should completely devastate an enemy in a single quick burst will require a good four or five seconds of concentrated fire to drop one mook, while your substantially weaker-in-real-life 9mm handguns do more damage per shot and your also much-weaker-in-real-life .357 or .44 Magnum revolver is a consistent OneHitKill. Ostensibly, this is done for the sake of gameplay balance, since if your assault rifles were as effective in-game as they are in real life, combined with the percentage-based ammo count the earlier games give them ([=RE3=] lets an a thirty-round M4 magazine hold about ten times as many rounds as it does in real life), three ''hundred'' rounds), [[GameBreaker you wouldn't need to use much else]].



* Damage in ''VideoGame/TimeSplitters'' is just plain hilariously random. Being shot by the exact same gun can do a sliver of damage the first time, and flatline you the second. And due to the way 'character abilities' work when turned on, gets absolutely crazy with high-stamina enemies/characters, even human ones. Giant louts like Hector Barbosa can take a full auto magazine to the head then punch you to death while you reload, while little girls like Viola and Krayola will wilt if clipped in the hand.
* The ''VideoGame/{{Turok}}'' series fan favorite Mag 60 fires 3 bullets per tap in primary burst-fire mode. Does maybe 10-15 points of damage, a full load will barely kill a purim or another player in deathmatch. Move into alt-fire, however, and you charge up and use 15 at once, which does nearly double damage what 15 normal shots would do on the same creature in the same location. Damn near instant kill on small enemies (removes limbs, decapitates, EXPLODES IN HALF), one or (but usually) two to down a purim, aiming center mass and then firing upon a purim puts a truck-sized hole in its stomach on the second shot. The first time you see this in action, even you will stare as incredulously at it as he does. Typically most weapons follow this format, with alt-fire using more ammo but being stupidly overpowered for what it fires, especially the rapid-fire weapons.

to:

* Damage in ''VideoGame/TimeSplitters'' is just plain hilariously random. Being shot by the exact same gun can do a sliver of damage the first time, and flatline you the second. And due to the way 'character abilities' work when turned on, this gets absolutely crazy with high-stamina enemies/characters, even human ones. Giant louts like Hector Barbosa can take a full auto magazine to the head then punch you to death while you reload, while little girls like Viola and Krayola will wilt if clipped in the hand.
* The ''VideoGame/{{Turok}}'' series fan favorite Mag 60 fires 3 bullets per tap in primary burst-fire mode. Does maybe 10-15 points of damage, a full load will barely kill a purim or another player in deathmatch. Move into alt-fire, however, and you charge up and use 15 at once, which does nearly double damage what 15 normal shots would do on the same creature in the same location. Damn near instant kill on small enemies (removes limbs, decapitates, EXPLODES IN HALF), ''blows them in half''), one or (but usually) two to down a purim, aiming center mass and then firing upon a purim puts a truck-sized hole in its stomach on the second shot. The first time you see this in action, even you will stare as incredulously at it as he does. Typically most weapons follow this format, with alt-fire using more ammo but being stupidly overpowered for what it fires, especially the rapid-fire weapons.



** You'd think the Soldier's rocket launcher would be hilariously overpowered because they're [[StuffBlowingUp rockets]], right? No. While a close-range rocket is very powerful (though you'd probably kill yourself too with the splash damage), shooting a rocket from long-range does a rather small amount of damage (40-50 damage). This is because of "damage falloff", so players don't just stand back and spam projectiles all day (some still do anyway, but it's not very effective).
* The ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series is a huge offender in this regard. A shot from one of Dante's handguns is about as powerful as a mosquito bite. Of course, [[GunsAkimbo he wields two]], [[MoreDakka they can rapidfire]], [[ChargedAttack and they can be charged]], but as far as raw damage goes you're better off marching up to the enemy and slashing it to death. (But during [[CutscenePowerToTheMax cutscenes]]...) In this case, it may be as the enemies are typically demons they're highly resistant to small arms even when shot in the head. When you have to overcome their healing, slashing them up with an enormous sword would likely be more efficient.
* ''VideoGame/{{Borderlands}}'' has an extremely wide range of damage dealt by similar guns that fire the same ammunition, although this is occasionally justified by the elemental damage that many deal. However, player characters can take skills that let them do more damage with certain weapon types, and even ''increase magazine sizes'' in various weapons, including ''revolvers''. That's right, you can somehow store ''nine'' bullets in a six-gun just by being good at it. [[MST3KMantra Don't ask how. Just go kill something with it.]]

to:

** You'd think the Soldier's rocket launcher would be hilariously overpowered because they're [[StuffBlowingUp rockets]], right? No. While a close-range rocket is very powerful (though you'd probably kill yourself too with the splash damage), shooting a rocket from long-range does a rather small amount of damage (40-50 damage). This is because of "damage falloff", so players don't just stand back and spam projectiles all day (some still do anyway, but it's not very effective).
effective even when they actually hit something).
* The ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series is a huge offender in this regard. A shot from one of Dante's handguns handguns, at least [[CutscenePowerToTheMax in gameplay]], is about as powerful as a mosquito bite. Of course, [[GunsAkimbo he wields two]], they have BottomlessMagazines, and they can be [[MoreDakka they can rapidfire]], rapid-fired]] or [[ChargedAttack and they can be charged]], charged up]], but as far as raw damage goes you're better off marching up to the enemy and slashing it to death. (But during [[CutscenePowerToTheMax cutscenes]]...) In this case, it may be as the enemies are typically demons they're highly resistant to small arms even when shot in the head.head - Dante himself actually takes a bullet to the forehead on at least one occasion and is only mildly annoyed about it. When you have to overcome their healing, slashing them up with an enormous sword would likely be more efficient.
* ''VideoGame/{{Borderlands}}'' has an extremely wide range of damage dealt by similar guns that fire the same ammunition, although this is occasionally justified by the elemental damage that many deal. However, player characters can take skills that let them do more damage with certain weapon types, and even ''increase increased magazine sizes'' sizes in various weapons, including ''revolvers''. That's right, you can somehow store ''nine'' bullets in a six-gun just by being good at it. [[MST3KMantra Don't ask how. Just go kill something with it.]]



* The hunting rifle in the ''VideoGame/Left4Dead'' series is based on a weapon that should be firing the same bullets as the assault rifle, and is noted for a lack of accuracy in the real world, but in-game it's a pixel-perfectly-accurate terror that will penetrate and [[OneHitPolykill instantly kill as many zombies as you can line up in one shot]]; meanwhile the assault rifle will barely penetrate one zombie and often requires multiple bullets to put them down.

to:

* The hunting rifle in the ''VideoGame/Left4Dead'' series is based on a weapon that should be firing the same bullets as the assault rifle, and is noted for a lack of accuracy in the real world, but in-game it's a pixel-perfectly-accurate terror that will penetrate and [[OneHitPolykill instantly kill as many zombies as you can line up in one shot]]; meanwhile the assault rifle will barely penetrate one zombie and often requires multiple bullets to put them down. The pistol-versus-rifle issue is at least played somewhat closer to reality, as the standard pistols suffer in accuracy and damage per shot compared to any of the primary weapons, though the HandCannon Magnum introduced in ''VideoGame/Left4Dead2'' trades capacity and fire rate for damage close to the sniper rifles' - even the ridiculously-tough common Infected in Realism mode can take two shots from a sniper rifle with no problem, but drop on the spot from a Magnum shot.



* The guns in ''Film/DjangoUnchained'' seem to deal whatever damage makes the coolest shot at the time. During the final showdown, Django shoots [[spoiler:Lara Lee]] and the body is thrown clean out of the room in a different direction entirely, while another victims merely drops to the floor where he stands.

to:

* The guns in ''Film/DjangoUnchained'' seem to deal whatever damage makes the coolest shot at the time. During the final showdown, Django shoots [[spoiler:Lara Lee]] and the body is thrown clean out of the room in a different direction entirely, while another victims victim merely drops to the floor where he stands.
30th Aug '16 6:02:12 AM REV6Pilot
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' and ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' can take ''five'' head shots just to remotely damage an alert enemy, including regular humans, but then you make a sneak attack and suddenly they drop from a single pistol bullet to the torso.
** The tier system and western theme in ''New Vegas'' lead to a situation where the stereotypical cowboy weapon is better at any given level than most of the rest, especially with the "Cowboy" perk. This means a .357 Magnum revolver is more powerful than most .223/5.56mm rifles, and a .44 Magnum revolver is more powerful than both .308 rifles (as is the 12.7mm pistol, which is essentially the in-universe equivalent of the Desert Eagle).
** On the other hand, [[ArmorPiercingAttack AP]] rounds for the more modern rifles can ignore much more of an enemy's damage threshold than older rifles or pistol rounds (5.56mm, .308, and .50 MG AP all ignore 15; .45, .44, 45-70 Gov't can at best ignore between 4 and 6 while no 12.7mm variants have any AP properties). Still, you won't be using these rounds very often; point-for-point extra damage is objectively better than DT reduction, and these DT modifications apply even when those rifle rounds [[HandCannon are used by pistols]] (like [[Film/BladeRunner That Gun]] and its generic version the 5.56mm pistol, which both cause more damage per shot than any rifle using the same round).
* ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' carries on this tradition in earnest, despite the devs claiming combat is overhauled and less awkward. They also seem to take a page out of Boris The Bullet-Dodger's playbook that [[GunsDoNotWorkThatWay "heavy is good"]] in terms of damage; the heavier a gun is, the more damage it will deal.

to:

* ''Franchise/{{Fallout}}''
**
''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}'' and ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' can take ''five'' head shots just to remotely damage an alert enemy, including regular humans, but then you make a sneak attack and suddenly they drop from a single pistol bullet to the torso.
** *** The tier system and western theme in ''New Vegas'' lead to a situation where the stereotypical cowboy weapon is better at any given level than most of the rest, especially with the "Cowboy" perk. This means a .357 Magnum revolver is more powerful than most .223/5.56mm rifles, and a .44 Magnum revolver is more powerful than both .308 rifles (as is the 12.7mm pistol, which is essentially the in-universe equivalent of the Desert Eagle).
** *** On the other hand, [[ArmorPiercingAttack AP]] rounds for the more modern rifles can ignore much more of an enemy's damage threshold than older rifles or pistol rounds (5.56mm, .308, and .50 MG AP all ignore 15; .45, .44, 45-70 Gov't can at best ignore between 4 and 6 while no 12.7mm variants have any AP properties). Still, you won't be using these rounds very often; point-for-point extra damage is objectively better than DT reduction, and these DT modifications apply even when those rifle rounds [[HandCannon are used by pistols]] (like [[Film/BladeRunner That Gun]] and its generic version the 5.56mm pistol, which both cause more damage per shot than any rifle using the same round).
* ** ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 4}}'' carries on this tradition in earnest, despite the devs claiming combat is overhauled and less awkward. They also seem to take a page out of Boris The Bullet-Dodger's playbook that [[GunsDoNotWorkThatWay "heavy is good"]] in terms of damage; the heavier a gun is, the more damage it will deal.deal.
** On the other hand, all bets are off when it comes to {{Game Mod}}s for any of the games. The fanbase has proven to have a number of gun nuts with programming experience who are willing to [[AvertedTrope make gun power as non-arbitrary as possible]], "game balance" be damned.
2nd Aug '16 11:41:17 AM UmbrellasWereAwesome
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''{{Franchise/Halo}}'''s standard issue assault rifle is weaker than the melee attack you can do with it, requiring some odd 20 rounds (1/3 of the magazine) to down an Elite. However, the pistol is one of the most powerful weapons in the game, allowing for a one shot of all the grunts and two shots for Elites (the pistol/rifle comparison is at least semi-justified; [[AllThereInTheManual the pistol fires a]] ''[[HandCannon very]]'' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.500_S%26W_Magnum large round]], but then again the assault rifle is also firing 7.62mm NATO, generally considered overpowered for the kind of close-range spraying the in-game weapon is actually used for). The melee is also justified, [[SuperSoldier because you're a Spartan]].
** [[VideoGame/{{Halo 2}} The sequel's]] [=SMG=]s got far worse. Because they're designed for GunsAkimbo, they're absolutely worthless on their own.
*** The SMG in ''VideoGame/Halo3ODST'' is rather odd. Despite only firing 5x23mm sub machine gun rounds, the weapon seems to drop Brute [[DeflectorShields Shields]] just as effectively as the much larger (and logically more powerful) 7.62x51mm rounds used by the assault rifle. This may be justified, as the SMG in ''ODST'' (as well as in ''Halo 2'' and ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'') does have a faster rate of fire.

to:

* ''{{Franchise/Halo}}'''s ''{{Franchise/Halo}}'':
** ''VideoGame/HaloCombatEvolved''[='s=]
standard issue assault rifle is weaker than the melee attack you can do with it, requiring some odd 20 rounds (1/3 of the magazine) to down an Elite. However, the pistol is one of the most powerful weapons in the game, allowing for a one shot of all the grunts and two shots for Elites (the Elites. That said, the pistol/rifle comparison is at least semi-justified; [[AllThereInTheManual the pistol fires a]] ''[[HandCannon very]]'' [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.500_S%26W_Magnum large round]], but then again the assault rifle is also firing 7.62mm NATO, generally considered overpowered for the kind of close-range spraying the in-game weapon is actually used for). for. The melee melee's power is also justified, [[SuperSoldier because you're a Spartan]].
** [[VideoGame/{{Halo 2}} The sequel's]] ''VideoGame/{{Halo 2}}''[='s=] [=SMG=]s got far are even worse. Because they're designed for GunsAkimbo, they're absolutely worthless on their own.
*** ** The SMG in ''VideoGame/Halo3ODST'' is rather odd. Despite only firing 5x23mm sub machine gun rounds, the weapon seems to drop Brute [[DeflectorShields Shields]] just as effectively as the much larger (and logically more powerful) 7.62x51mm rounds used by the assault rifle. This may be justified, as the SMG in ''ODST'' (as well as in ''Halo 2'' and ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'') does have a faster rate of fire.



** And of course we have the infamous Needler. This is a gun that fires ''shards of glass the size of your arm that stab into you and explode'', and it barely hurts unless you fire practically the entire magazine into a guy, at which point the shards all explode at once and are pretty much a guaranteed kill. It comes into its own at higher levels and later in the game; Brutes were especially vulnerable to it, and it is one of the few weapons that can rapidly and effectively kill fresh enemies in Legendary difficulty. It was so effective at doing this in ''Halo 2'', that you could no longer dual-wield needlers in ''Halo 3''.

to:

** And of course we have the infamous Needler. This is a gun that fires ''shards of glass the size of your arm that stab into you and explode'', and it barely hurts unless you fire practically the entire magazine into a guy, at which point the shards all explode at once and are pretty much a guaranteed kill. It comes into its own at higher levels and later in That said, it can still be a ''very'' useful weapon; the game; otherwise bullet-spongy Brutes were are especially vulnerable to it, and it is one of the few weapons that can rapidly and effectively kill fresh full-health enemies in Legendary difficulty. It was so effective at doing this in ''Halo 2'', 2'' that you could no longer they took out the option to dual-wield needlers in ''Halo 3''.
16th Jul '16 4:08:51 PM Kadorhal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** ''World At War'' gets ridiculous with its laughably-underpowered, damn-near-useless M1 Garand. As the basic US starter weapon, it's nerfed to the point that you'd think it was chambered in .22 Short. But the M1 carbine ([[MisidentifiedWeapons incorrectly called the [=M1A1=] in the game]]; that would actually be the paratrooper model with the folding stock) is somehow a HandCannon. Except that in RealLife, the .30-06 semiauto Garand was (and still is) known for being exceptionally accurate, exceptionally durable and reliable, and was a proven "one shot, one kill" man-stopper, meaning the American GI was significantly better armed than his British, Russian, German, Japanese, or Italian counterparts. The carbine, on the other hand, was lightweight and durable, but its .30 Carbine round lacked the punch of the .30-06, and could sometimes require half or more of its magazine to put down a charging Japanese berserker.
** In ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare'' and ''World at War'', in normal multiplayer mode, headshots take two to three shots to kill, unless it's a sniper rifle or certain weapons with Stopping Power (and as an aside, attaching a sniper scope to a weapon in ''World at War'' multiplayer arbitrarily increases its damage). Hardcore mode seems to be an aversion at first glance (as you die much more easily), but this is only due to you having far fewer hit points, making bullets that might not hit the vitals act as an InstantDeathBullet as well. In both modes and all later games, melee and anything similar to it (throwing knives/tomahawk and ballistic knives), even if dealt to the ''foot'', is always an insta-kill.

to:

** ''World At War'' gets ridiculous with its laughably-underpowered, damn-near-useless M1 Garand. As the basic US starter weapon, it's nerfed to the point that you'd think it was chambered in .22 Short. But the M1 carbine ([[MisidentifiedWeapons incorrectly called the [=M1A1=] in the game]]; that would actually be the paratrooper model with the folding stock) is somehow a HandCannon. Except that in RealLife, the .30-06 semiauto Garand was (and still is) known for being exceptionally accurate, exceptionally durable and reliable, and was a proven "one shot, one kill" man-stopper, meaning the American GI was significantly better armed than his British, Russian, German, Japanese, or Italian counterparts. The carbine, on the other hand, was lightweight and durable, but its .30 Carbine round lacked the punch of the .30-06, and could sometimes require half or more of its magazine to put down a charging Japanese berserker. \n That's also ignoring the purest embodiment of this trope with the Garand and the bolt-action rifles, which will have their damage ratings boosted upon the attachment of a sniper scope for absolutely zero reason.
** In ''VideoGame/ModernWarfare'' and ''World at War'', in normal multiplayer mode, headshots take two to three shots to kill, unless it's a sniper rifle or certain weapons with Stopping Power (and as an aside, attaching a sniper scope to a weapon in ''World at War'' multiplayer arbitrarily increases its damage).Power. Hardcore mode seems to be an aversion at first glance (as you die much more easily), but this is only due to you having far fewer hit points, making bullets that might not hit the vitals act as an InstantDeathBullet as well. In both modes and all later games, melee and anything similar to it (throwing knives/tomahawk and ballistic knives), even if dealt to the ''foot'', is always an insta-kill.



** ''VideoGame/{{Persona}}'' and ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' in general do this so often that it's the king of GunsAreWorthless as from beginning to end...they really are. Only averted by characters that only use guns and nothing but.

to:

** ''VideoGame/{{Persona}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Persona}}'', and ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' in general general, do this so often that it's the king of GunsAreWorthless as from beginning to end...end... they really are. Only averted by characters that only use guns and nothing but.
5th Apr '16 9:49:30 PM dbsamurai
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* {{Franchise/Warhammer40000}} has an odd version, in that lasguns (which are explicitly more powerful than modern assault rifles, but still among the weakest weapons in the game) have no armor penetration value. This means a normal human wearing a flak jacket has a 1 in 3 chance of shrugging off a lethal wound, under the justification that their "armor" which covers at best their upper chest, shoulders, and head, stopped it. And then, other weapons pack the same strength as the lasgun, but are impossibly better at piercing armor despite no other change in performance. For example, the hellgun, which has just as much theoretical power as the lasgun, is capable of ignoring space marine armor. That puts it a factor of two better at piercing armor than the Marines' own full-auto-rocket-propelled-grenade-firing guns.
30th Mar '16 1:59:58 PM RebelionRoja
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* [[AvertedTrope Averted]] in ''WebComic/AcidRain'' in a fight between the protagonist against a {{Cyborg}} a single bullet to the brain is enough to put him down. [[DoubleTap He shots him again]] [[MakeSureHesDead just to be sure]]. Considering he lives in a Cyberpunk Dystopia and people can [[MadeOfIron survive multiple hits]], is understandable. TheHero [[MadeOfIron himself]] was almost killed the same way, so it's [[PayEvilUntoEvil payback]].
18th Feb '16 7:23:48 PM GrammarNavi
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The first game follows PunchPackingPistol to a tee: 9mm rounds magically do more damage and are more accurate when fired out of a comparatively-tiny Glock 17 than when fired out of an [=MP5=] for whatever reason; the only reason the latter is even of any use at all is because of its underbarrel GrenadeLauncher. This gets especially ridiculous when using the official high definition pack (which can be enabled in the pause menu for the Steam version) or playing the PS2 port, where the [=MP5=] is replaced with a Colt Commando.

to:

** The first game follows PunchPackingPistol to a tee: 9mm rounds magically do more damage and are more accurate when fired out of a comparatively-tiny Glock 17 than when fired out of an [=MP5=] for whatever reason; the only reason the latter is even of any use at all is because of its underbarrel GrenadeLauncher. This gets especially ridiculous when using the official high definition pack (which can be enabled in the pause menu for the Steam version) or playing the PS2 [[UsefulNotes/PlayStation2 PS2]] port, where the [=MP5=] is replaced with a Colt Commando.
14th Jan '16 8:47:10 AM demonfiren
Is there an issue? Send a Message


But of course, TropesAreTools - if it makes a game PvPBalanced because of it, it sure seems much less arbitrary then. Some weapons in multiplayer first-person shooters are balanced based on rate of fire rather than caliber to avoid min-maxing: in a game, a gun that fires rapidly ''and'' does high damage will always be more widely used than a gun that does only one of the two. However, some games tend to balance that with recoil, making the gun harder to control, or accuracy, making its rapid fire only useful in close ranges.

to:

But of course, TropesAreTools - if it makes a game PvPBalanced PVPBalanced because of it, it sure seems much less arbitrary then. Some weapons in multiplayer first-person shooters are balanced based on rate of fire rather than caliber to avoid min-maxing: in a game, a gun that fires rapidly ''and'' does high damage will always be more widely used than a gun that does only one of the two. However, some games tend to balance that with recoil, making the gun harder to control, or accuracy, making its rapid fire only useful in close ranges.
18th Dec '15 7:05:00 AM Joylock
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* The ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' series is a notable ''aversion'' of the common FPS trope in which handguns do more damage than assault rifles (or at least comparable damage) to balance out their lower rate of fire and magazine size. Realistically, the handguns in both games deal significantly less damage than the assault rifle (even the Magnum in the first game is noticeably weaker than the assault rifle), making the assault rifle superior in every way (other than availability of ammo in the first game, and the number of skill points required to actually be able to use it in the second game).
This list shows the last 10 events of 226. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ArbitraryGunPower