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Changed line(s) 1,42 (click to see context) from:
!!'''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule Appeal to Ridicule]]''':
[[quoteright:350: [[WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nelsonhaha.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Seen here reduced to its simplest form by one of its foremost proponents.]]
!!! Also called:
* Appeal to Mockery
* The Horse Laugh
* Reductio ad ridiculum
A simplistic fallacy in which it is suggested an argument is false by presenting it in a way in which it appears silly and/or trivial. This often dovetails into StrawmanFallacy or AppealToIgnorance.
-->"According to quantum theory, an electron can be in two places at once! Have you ever heard anything so stupid? It must be wrong!"
This fallacy differs from ''reductio ad absurdum'', a legitimate debating technique; there, it is demonstrated that an absurd conclusion naturally follows from the underlying logic of an opponent's argument, therefore showing the argument as invalid. However, an attempt at ''reductio ad absurdum'' that itself uses faulty reasoning can leave you with this.
Also, just because an argument uses ridicule does not mean it runs afoul of this. A person who delivers a withering, logically sound counterattack in a mocking, rude manner is being a jerk. If the argument is still sound, it stands regardless of how insulting the phrasing is. It only becomes a fallacy when the arguer fails to explain ''why'' what they are arguing against is stupid or ridiculous and [[TakeOurWordForIt just expects you to go with it]].
In terms of tropes, this fallacy often coincides with TooFunnyToBeEvil, where an evil character can use this fallacy to get a laugh out of the uneducated masses while dismissing the hero.
----
!!Examples:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]), in aLtErNaTiNg caPs, or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
* {{Satire}}, when it is done sloppily.
* Quoting an opposing argument or slogan sarcastically. Saying "Won't somebody {{think of the children}}!" sarcastically is often effective in shutting down any argument over whether something might in fact be harmful to children.
* ''Series/PennAndTellerBullshit'' uses this often, when they believe the argument of their opposition would be obviously wrong to the audience. Since they used the same arrogant, condescending tone when making actual good points, it fit in to the show.
* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'' got [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-11-14 a clear example]] of this (immediately followed by an example of [[TalkToTheFist where it goes]] once the more civilized discussion is successfully avoided):
-->'''Captain Tagon''': But the Three-Eff-Cee guy was actually ''making sense''.
-->'''Ennesby''': That's why the people who disagree choose to mock his message rather than attack it point by point.
* Basically the entire point of Radio/TheDebaters, a comedy debate show on Creator/{{CBC}} radio.
* 9/11 truthers like to dismiss the official story by describing the hijackers as "some Arabs with box cutters". Because clearly only white people are smart enough to pull off large-scale terrorist attacks.
* Complaints about racism, sexism, etc. are frequently dismissed out of hand by dominant groups as PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad.
* Arguments against raising the minimum wage are often along the lines of "You want $10 an hour? Why not make it $100 an hour?" This can be done anytime numbers are involved, and is difficult to unpack in any way other than to call it out as a failed attempt at a Reductio ad Absurdum.
* Ray Comfort, otherwise known as "Banana Man" is famous for his man on the street interviews, in which he (often accompanied by sidekick Kirk Cameron) reduces evolution to a series of scientific impossibilities and absurdities, employing virtually every logical fallacy in the book, notably the appeal to ridicule and its cousin, the straw man fallacy. In addition to this, expecting a layman to have a relatively advanced knowledge of biology is a bit problematic in and of itself; your average pedestrian might not be able to explain why binary code makes a computer work, but that certainly doesn't negate its effectiveness. It's also hard to believe that in all his years of doing this, he has never encountered ANYONE capable of competently explaining natural selection as the driving force behind evolution (in fact he has been told evolution really works by biologists, but still rejects their explanations). The videos in which he interviews random people who never manage to give him good answers show clear signs of editing, making people suspect he cherry picks the worst for this purpose.
* In ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', during the episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E15FirstContact First Contact]]", William Riker is given a superficial make-over to look like a non-human while reconnoitering a species on the verge of warp contact. In other words, the human is an alien among the (native) Malcorians. He is wounded and a medical doctor confronts him about the biological differences and asks Riker point blank if he is an alien. Riker mocks the idea, saying it is more likely he is a weather balloon than an alien. The doctor recognizes the dodge immediately.
* Sometimes, this trope is used to misrepresent a lawsuit as a FrivolousLawsuit. For example, the infamous "Hot Coffee Case" was ''not'' frivolous; people think it was about someone who didn't "know" her coffee would be hot and/or handled it recklessly, when in fact [=McDonald's=] ''was'' serving their coffee hotter than safety standards and had been sued for doing so many times before the lawsuit was even made. Even if you expect coffee to be hot, you don't expect to need treatment for third-degree burns on your genitals after spilling a little of it. Even so, "coffee is supposed to be hot" remains the mockery of this, as featured in ''{{Series/Seinfeld}}'', though Kramer's retort on the same show would be valid: "Not ''that'' hot".
* Website/YouTube personality Paul Joseph Watson ''is'' this trope, as practically all his arguments consist of just reading the person he disagrees with in a silly voice and never actually making any counter arguments or explaining what's wrong with it.
----
!!! Looks like this fallacy but is not
* When an argument or counterargument is presented with some ridicule thrown in for good measure. The validity of the argument is independent of how courteously (or not) it was delivered. For example, Bob says: "I could be a professional basketball player." Alice says: "You? Don't make me laugh. You're a lazy, overweight slob who doesn't exercise and has no discipline for taking care of your body. You're much too old, less than five feet tall, clumsy, and blind as a bat. You're too arrogant to listen to coaches and too lazy to practice. And I don't think you've done anything athletic in your life." If Alice is telling the truth, her arguments for why Bob could not be a professional basketball player are valid, even if she is ridiculing him.
[[quoteright:350: [[WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nelsonhaha.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Seen here reduced to its simplest form by one of its foremost proponents.]]
!!! Also called:
* Appeal to Mockery
* The Horse Laugh
* Reductio ad ridiculum
A simplistic fallacy in which it is suggested an argument is false by presenting it in a way in which it appears silly and/or trivial. This often dovetails into StrawmanFallacy or AppealToIgnorance.
-->"According to quantum theory, an electron can be in two places at once! Have you ever heard anything so stupid? It must be wrong!"
This fallacy differs from ''reductio ad absurdum'', a legitimate debating technique; there, it is demonstrated that an absurd conclusion naturally follows from the underlying logic of an opponent's argument, therefore showing the argument as invalid. However, an attempt at ''reductio ad absurdum'' that itself uses faulty reasoning can leave you with this.
Also, just because an argument uses ridicule does not mean it runs afoul of this. A person who delivers a withering, logically sound counterattack in a mocking, rude manner is being a jerk. If the argument is still sound, it stands regardless of how insulting the phrasing is. It only becomes a fallacy when the arguer fails to explain ''why'' what they are arguing against is stupid or ridiculous and [[TakeOurWordForIt just expects you to go with it]].
In terms of tropes, this fallacy often coincides with TooFunnyToBeEvil, where an evil character can use this fallacy to get a laugh out of the uneducated masses while dismissing the hero.
----
!!Examples:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]), in aLtErNaTiNg caPs, or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
* {{Satire}}, when it is done sloppily.
* Quoting an opposing argument or slogan sarcastically. Saying "Won't somebody {{think of the children}}!" sarcastically is often effective in shutting down any argument over whether something might in fact be harmful to children.
* ''Series/PennAndTellerBullshit'' uses this often, when they believe the argument of their opposition would be obviously wrong to the audience. Since they used the same arrogant, condescending tone when making actual good points, it fit in to the show.
* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'' got [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-11-14 a clear example]] of this (immediately followed by an example of [[TalkToTheFist where it goes]] once the more civilized discussion is successfully avoided):
-->'''Captain Tagon''': But the Three-Eff-Cee guy was actually ''making sense''.
-->'''Ennesby''': That's why the people who disagree choose to mock his message rather than attack it point by point.
* Basically the entire point of Radio/TheDebaters, a comedy debate show on Creator/{{CBC}} radio.
* 9/11 truthers like to dismiss the official story by describing the hijackers as "some Arabs with box cutters". Because clearly only white people are smart enough to pull off large-scale terrorist attacks.
* Complaints about racism, sexism, etc. are frequently dismissed out of hand by dominant groups as PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad.
* Arguments against raising the minimum wage are often along the lines of "You want $10 an hour? Why not make it $100 an hour?" This can be done anytime numbers are involved, and is difficult to unpack in any way other than to call it out as a failed attempt at a Reductio ad Absurdum.
* Ray Comfort, otherwise known as "Banana Man" is famous for his man on the street interviews, in which he (often accompanied by sidekick Kirk Cameron) reduces evolution to a series of scientific impossibilities and absurdities, employing virtually every logical fallacy in the book, notably the appeal to ridicule and its cousin, the straw man fallacy. In addition to this, expecting a layman to have a relatively advanced knowledge of biology is a bit problematic in and of itself; your average pedestrian might not be able to explain why binary code makes a computer work, but that certainly doesn't negate its effectiveness. It's also hard to believe that in all his years of doing this, he has never encountered ANYONE capable of competently explaining natural selection as the driving force behind evolution (in fact he has been told evolution really works by biologists, but still rejects their explanations). The videos in which he interviews random people who never manage to give him good answers show clear signs of editing, making people suspect he cherry picks the worst for this purpose.
* In ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', during the episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E15FirstContact First Contact]]", William Riker is given a superficial make-over to look like a non-human while reconnoitering a species on the verge of warp contact. In other words, the human is an alien among the (native) Malcorians. He is wounded and a medical doctor confronts him about the biological differences and asks Riker point blank if he is an alien. Riker mocks the idea, saying it is more likely he is a weather balloon than an alien. The doctor recognizes the dodge immediately.
* Sometimes, this trope is used to misrepresent a lawsuit as a FrivolousLawsuit. For example, the infamous "Hot Coffee Case" was ''not'' frivolous; people think it was about someone who didn't "know" her coffee would be hot and/or handled it recklessly, when in fact [=McDonald's=] ''was'' serving their coffee hotter than safety standards and had been sued for doing so many times before the lawsuit was even made. Even if you expect coffee to be hot, you don't expect to need treatment for third-degree burns on your genitals after spilling a little of it. Even so, "coffee is supposed to be hot" remains the mockery of this, as featured in ''{{Series/Seinfeld}}'', though Kramer's retort on the same show would be valid: "Not ''that'' hot".
* Website/YouTube personality Paul Joseph Watson ''is'' this trope, as practically all his arguments consist of just reading the person he disagrees with in a silly voice and never actually making any counter arguments or explaining what's wrong with it.
----
!!! Looks like this fallacy but is not
* When an argument or counterargument is presented with some ridicule thrown in for good measure. The validity of the argument is independent of how courteously (or not) it was delivered. For example, Bob says: "I could be a professional basketball player." Alice says: "You? Don't make me laugh. You're a lazy, overweight slob who doesn't exercise and has no discipline for taking care of your body. You're much too old, less than five feet tall, clumsy, and blind as a bat. You're too arrogant to listen to coaches and too lazy to practice. And I don't think you've done anything athletic in your life." If Alice is telling the truth, her arguments for why Bob could not be a professional basketball player are valid, even if she is ridiculing him.
to:
[[quoteright:350: [[WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nelsonhaha.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Seen here reduced to its simplest form by one of its foremost proponents.]]
!!! Also called:
* Appeal to Mockery
* The Horse Laugh
* Reductio ad ridiculum
A simplistic fallacy in which it is suggested an argument is false by presenting it in a way in which it appears silly and/or trivial. This often dovetails into StrawmanFallacy or AppealToIgnorance.
-->"According to quantum theory, an electron can be in two places at once! Have you ever heard anything so stupid? It must be wrong!"
This fallacy differs from ''reductio ad absurdum'', a legitimate debating technique; there, it is demonstrated that an absurd conclusion naturally follows from the underlying logic of an opponent's argument, therefore showing the argument as invalid. However, an attempt at ''reductio ad absurdum'' that itself uses faulty reasoning can leave you with this.
Also, just because an argument uses ridicule does not mean it runs afoul of this. A person who delivers a withering, logically sound counterattack in a mocking, rude manner is being a jerk. If the argument is still sound, it stands regardless of how insulting the phrasing is. It only becomes a fallacy when the arguer fails to explain ''why'' what they are arguing against is stupid or ridiculous and [[TakeOurWordForIt just expects you to go with it]].
In terms of tropes, this fallacy often coincides with TooFunnyToBeEvil, where an evil character can use this fallacy to get a laugh out of the uneducated masses while dismissing the hero.
----
!!Examples:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]), in aLtErNaTiNg caPs, or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
* {{Satire}}, when it is done sloppily.
* Quoting an opposing argument or slogan sarcastically. Saying "Won't somebody {{think of the children}}!" sarcastically is often effective in shutting down any argument over whether something might in fact be harmful to children.
* ''Series/PennAndTellerBullshit'' uses this often, when they believe the argument of their opposition would be obviously wrong to the audience. Since they used the same arrogant, condescending tone when making actual good points, it fit in to the show.
* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'' got [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-11-14 a clear example]] of this (immediately followed by an example of [[TalkToTheFist where it goes]] once the more civilized discussion is successfully avoided):
-->'''Captain Tagon''': But the Three-Eff-Cee guy was actually ''making sense''.
-->'''Ennesby''': That's why the people who disagree choose to mock his message rather than attack it point by point.
* Basically the entire point of Radio/TheDebaters, a comedy debate show on Creator/{{CBC}} radio.
* 9/11 truthers like to dismiss the official story by describing the hijackers as "some Arabs with box cutters". Because clearly only white people are smart enough to pull off large-scale terrorist attacks.
* Complaints about racism, sexism, etc. are frequently dismissed out of hand by dominant groups as PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad.
* Arguments against raising the minimum wage are often along the lines of "You want $10 an hour? Why not make it $100 an hour?" This can be done anytime numbers are involved, and is difficult to unpack in any way other than to call it out as a failed attempt at a Reductio ad Absurdum.
* Ray Comfort, otherwise known as "Banana Man" is famous for his man on the street interviews, in which he (often accompanied by sidekick Kirk Cameron) reduces evolution to a series of scientific impossibilities and absurdities, employing virtually every logical fallacy in the book, notably the appeal to ridicule and its cousin, the straw man fallacy. In addition to this, expecting a layman to have a relatively advanced knowledge of biology is a bit problematic in and of itself; your average pedestrian might not be able to explain why binary code makes a computer work, but that certainly doesn't negate its effectiveness. It's also hard to believe that in all his years of doing this, he has never encountered ANYONE capable of competently explaining natural selection as the driving force behind evolution (in fact he has been told evolution really works by biologists, but still rejects their explanations). The videos in which he interviews random people who never manage to give him good answers show clear signs of editing, making people suspect he cherry picks the worst for this purpose.
* In ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'', during the episode "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E15FirstContact First Contact]]", William Riker is given a superficial make-over to look like a non-human while reconnoitering a species on the verge of warp contact. In other words, the human is an alien among the (native) Malcorians. He is wounded and a medical doctor confronts him about the biological differences and asks Riker point blank if he is an alien. Riker mocks the idea, saying it is more likely he is a weather balloon than an alien. The doctor recognizes the dodge immediately.
* Sometimes, this trope is used to misrepresent a lawsuit as a FrivolousLawsuit. For example, the infamous "Hot Coffee Case" was ''not'' frivolous; people think it was about someone who didn't "know" her coffee would be hot and/or handled it recklessly, when in fact [=McDonald's=] ''was'' serving their coffee hotter than safety standards and had been sued for doing so many times before the lawsuit was even made. Even if you expect coffee to be hot, you don't expect to need treatment for third-degree burns on your genitals after spilling a little of it. Even so, "coffee is supposed to be hot" remains the mockery of this, as featured in ''{{Series/Seinfeld}}'', though Kramer's retort on the same show would be valid: "Not ''that'' hot".
* Website/YouTube personality Paul Joseph Watson ''is'' this trope, as practically all his arguments consist of just reading the person he disagrees with in a silly voice and never actually making any counter arguments or explaining what's wrong with it.
----
!!! Looks like this fallacy but is not
* When an argument or counterargument is presented with some ridicule thrown in for good measure. The validity of the argument is independent of how courteously (or not) it was delivered. For example, Bob says: "I could be a professional basketball player." Alice says: "You? Don't make me laugh. You're a lazy, overweight slob who doesn't exercise and has no discipline for taking care of your body. You're much too old, less than five feet tall, clumsy, and blind as a bat. You're too arrogant to listen to coaches and too lazy to practice. And I don't think you've done anything athletic in your life." If Alice is telling the truth, her arguments for why Bob could not be a professional basketball player are valid, even if she is ridiculing him.
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Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]), in alternating caps, or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
to:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]), in alternating caps, aLtErNaTiNg caPs, or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* Appeal To Mockery
to:
* Appeal To to Mockery
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Changed line(s) 1,5 (click to see context) from:
!!'''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule Appeal to Ridicule]]''':
[[quoteright:350: [[WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nelsonhaha.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Seen here reduced to its simplest form by one of its foremost proponents]]
[[quoteright:350: [[WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nelsonhaha.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:350:Seen here reduced to its simplest form by one of its foremost proponents]]
to:
[[quoteright:350: [[WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nelsonhaha.
[[caption-width-right:350:Seen here reduced to its simplest form by one of its foremost
Changed line(s) 17,18 (click to see context) from:
Also, just because an argument uses ridicule does not mean it runs afoul of this. A person who delivers a withering, logically sound counterattack in a mocking, rude manner is being a jerk. If the argument is still sound, it stands regardless of how insulting the phrasing is. It only becomes a fallacy when the arguer fails to explain ''why'' what they are arguing against is stupid or ridiculous and [[TakeOurWordForIt just expects you to go with it]]
to:
Also, just because an argument uses ridicule does not mean it runs afoul of this. A person who delivers a withering, logically sound counterattack in a mocking, rude manner is being a jerk. If the argument is still sound, it stands regardless of how insulting the phrasing is. It only becomes a fallacy when the arguer fails to explain ''why'' what they are arguing against is stupid or ridiculous and [[TakeOurWordForIt just expects you to go with it]]
it]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]) or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
to:
* The most common version is simply repeating your opponent's claim (or part of it) in a silly voice, or, on the internet, repeating it in block capitals with extra leetspeak ([[GrammarNazi teh horrible grammar is optional]]) optional]]), in alternating caps, or adding "herp derp" at the end of the sentence.
