History Main / AppealToInherentNature

31st Dec '15 6:48:41 PM Anddrix
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* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'': Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and BecauseDestinySaysSo). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain. For what it's worth being extremely {{rebellious|Spirit}} and [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] are also part of SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}'s inherent nature so the more people question their ability to change ''the harder they try to'' (basically their approach to be good is the very same obsessiveness they used to try to conquer Asgard and/or defeat Thor with time and time again no matter how many times they failed).
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* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'': Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and BecauseDestinySaysSo). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain. For what it's worth being extremely {{rebellious|Spirit}} and [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] are also part of SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}'s Loki's inherent nature so the more people question their ability to change ''the harder they try to'' (basically their approach to be good is the very same obsessiveness they used to try to conquer Asgard and/or defeat Thor with time and time again no matter how many times they failed).
15th Dec '15 11:59:00 AM nombretomado
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* Often used in WoW on role-playing servers by trolls. "I ''am'' role playing. My character is a jerk!"
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* Often used in WoW ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' on role-playing servers by trolls. "I ''am'' role playing. My character is a jerk!"
24th Oct '15 5:36:36 PM nombretomado
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* In the ITV series ''{{Primeval}}'', a character who has been raising an orphaned sabretooth since it was a cub insists that the now fully grown cat would never attack her. Which, naturally, it does. This is TruthInTelevision for the caretakers of dangerous wild animals.
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* In the ITV series ''{{Primeval}}'', ''Series/{{Primeval}}'', a character who has been raising an orphaned sabretooth since it was a cub insists that the now fully grown cat would never attack her. Which, naturally, it does. This is TruthInTelevision for the caretakers of dangerous wild animals.

* Mary in ''DowntonAbbey'', who argues that she's inherently contrary and that it would be against her character to want to marry anyone who anyone else wanted her to marry.
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* Mary in ''DowntonAbbey'', ''Series/DowntonAbbey'', who argues that she's inherently contrary and that it would be against her character to want to marry anyone who anyone else wanted her to marry.
2nd Aug '15 11:01:51 AM ServantScope
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* [[http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/scientists-say-free-will-probably-doesnt-exist-but-urge-dont-stop-believing/ This article]] plays with this trope. It starts by showing evidence in favor of determinism (that is, the idea of people not having free will and indeed behaving in their inherent nature). The article also goes on to show studies that prove that people who are exposed to such evidence will also ''start'' behaving like jerks. So the very nature of people is not "immutable" can end up being changed by external stimuli. So even if it is true that free will does not exist, people should not be exposed to evidence disproving free will, lest their nature ends up being negatively changed.
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* [[http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/scientists-say-free-will-probably-doesnt-exist-but-urge-dont-stop-believing/ This article]] plays with this trope. It starts by showing evidence in favor of determinism (that is, the idea of people not having free will and indeed behaving in their inherent nature). The article also goes on to show studies that prove that people who are exposed to such evidence will also ''start'' behaving like jerks. So the very nature of people is not "immutable" can end up being changed by external stimuli. So The article even presents an argument by some scientists: even if it is true that free will does not exist, people should not be exposed to evidence disproving free will, lest their nature ends up being negatively changed.and thereby changing people's natures to be more bad.
2nd Aug '15 10:59:12 AM ServantScope
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Add an article about free will
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*[[http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/scientists-say-free-will-probably-doesnt-exist-but-urge-dont-stop-believing/ This article]] plays with this trope. It starts by showing evidence in favor of determinism (that is, the idea of people not having free will and indeed behaving in their inherent nature). The article also goes on to show studies that prove that people who are exposed to such evidence will also ''start'' behaving like jerks. So the very nature of people is not "immutable" can end up being changed by external stimuli. So even if it is true that free will does not exist, people should not be exposed to evidence disproving free will, lest their nature ends up being negatively changed.
11th May '15 12:30:01 AM Malitia
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* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'': Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and BecauseDestinySaysSo). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain. For what it's worth being extremely {{rebellious|Spirit}} and [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] are also part of SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}'s inherent nature so the more people question their ability to change ''the harder they try to''.
to:
* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'': Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and BecauseDestinySaysSo). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain. For what it's worth being extremely {{rebellious|Spirit}} and [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] are also part of SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}'s inherent nature so the more people question their ability to change ''the harder they try to''.to'' (basically their approach to be good is the very same obsessiveness they used to try to conquer Asgard and/or defeat Thor with time and time again no matter how many times they failed).
11th May '15 12:21:20 AM Malitia
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* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'': Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and BecauseDestinySaysSo). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain.
to:
* ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'': Used to suggest why Loki is Loki, because he just can't help being bad (and BecauseDestinySaysSo). In recent years, Loki took offense to the idea, since it makes him predictable, and has tried very hard to be good. Several characters have noted their belief that sooner or later, he'll go back to being the villain. For what it's worth being extremely {{rebellious|Spirit}} and [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]] are also part of SelfDemonstrating/{{Loki}}'s inherent nature so the more people question their ability to change ''the harder they try to''.
30th Apr '15 9:40:12 AM Squirtle802
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** Radical liberals do this too, just with a different set of stereotypes. Really, anything that adheres to a strict Us vs. Them mindset tends to abuse this fallacy.
9th Feb '15 12:56:54 PM GoldenWyvern
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Duplicate example
** A similar version is told in ''Film/TheCryingGame''.
1st Feb '15 2:10:39 PM StFan
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[[AC: Anime and Manga]]
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* {{Fables}} has multiple examples of this. Mr North (AnthropomorphicPersonification of the North Wind,) is loathed by his son [[TheBigBadWolf Bigby]] for abandoning his mother and causing her [[DeathByDespair to die of a broken heart]], to which Mr North replies that it is in the nature of winds to change direction. A generally very nice goblin named Mr Brump drunkenly eats a sentient squirrel and is put on trial for murder, during which his lawyer produces the scorpion (from "the scorpion and the frog" story under folklore below,) as a defence witness, and argues that it is in the nature of goblins to thoughtlessly devour any meat they can, regardless of who or what the meat comes from. In both these cases [[spoiler: their interlocutors call bullshit; Bigby argues that Mr North may be no different from a normal fickle deadbeat and is just using his "nature" to make himself feel better, but even if Mr North is right, any entity with so little control over himself that he can't take responsibility for his own actions is a dangerous monster that should be put down anyway. Mr Brump's argument gets rejected by the judge in light of the fact that Brump is a fully sentient being who is thus responsible for his own actions, though in private the judge mused that his reason for condemning Brump had as much to do with setting a dangerous precedent that excused murder as Brump's culpability in that particular instance]].
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* {{Fables}} ''ComicBook/{{Fables}}'' has multiple examples of this. Mr North (AnthropomorphicPersonification of the North Wind,) is loathed by his son [[TheBigBadWolf Bigby]] for abandoning his mother and causing her [[DeathByDespair to die of a broken heart]], to which Mr North replies that it is in the nature of winds to change direction. A generally very nice goblin named Mr Brump drunkenly eats a sentient squirrel and is put on trial for murder, during which his lawyer produces the scorpion (from "the scorpion and the frog" story under folklore below,) as a defence witness, and argues that it is in the nature of goblins to thoughtlessly devour any meat they can, regardless of who or what the meat comes from. In both these cases [[spoiler: their interlocutors call bullshit; Bigby argues that Mr North may be no different from a normal fickle deadbeat and is just using his "nature" to make himself feel better, but even if Mr North is right, any entity with so little control over himself that he can't take responsibility for his own actions is a dangerous monster that should be put down anyway. Mr Brump's argument gets rejected by the judge in light of the fact that Brump is a fully sentient being who is thus responsible for his own actions, though in private the judge mused that his reason for condemning Brump had as much to do with setting a dangerous precedent that excused murder as Brump's culpability in that particular instance]].

[[AC:{{Film}}]] * ''Film/NaturalBornKillers'' provides an alternate rendition of the below entry: -->Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. [[TheFarmerAndTheViper She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek.]] As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, [[ThisIsForEmphasisBitch bitch]], [[GenreBlindness you knew]] I was a [[AlwaysChaoticEvil snake]]." ** A similar version is told in ''Film/TheCryingGame''.
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\n[[AC:{{Film}}]]\n* ''Film/NaturalBornKillers'' provides an alternate rendition of the below entry:\n-->Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. [[TheFarmerAndTheViper She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek.]] As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, [[ThisIsForEmphasisBitch bitch]], [[GenreBlindness you knew]] I was a [[AlwaysChaoticEvil snake]]." \n** A similar version is told in ''Film/TheCryingGame''.[[/folder]] [[folder:Films -- Animation]]

* In CarlitosWay, Carlito is confronted by his girlfriend Gail about leaving the criminal life behind, saying the only way that road ends is with her crying in an emergency room as Carlito dies. Carlito defends his adherence to the "code of the street" even as he goes clean by means of this fallacy, saying something to the effect of, "That's who I am. I can't change." It does not work out well.
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[[/folder]] [[folder:Films -- Live-Action]] * ''Film/NaturalBornKillers'' provides an alternate rendition of the below entry: -->Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. [[TheFarmerAndTheViper She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek.]] As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, [[ThisIsForEmphasisBitch bitch]], [[GenreBlindness you knew]] I was a [[AlwaysChaoticEvil snake]]." ** A similar version is told in ''Film/TheCryingGame''. * In CarlitosWay, ''Film/CarlitosWay'', Carlito is confronted by his girlfriend Gail about leaving the criminal life behind, saying the only way that road ends is with her crying in an emergency room as Carlito dies. Carlito defends his adherence to the "code of the street" even as he goes clean by means of this fallacy, saying something to the effect of, "That's who I am. I can't change." It does not work out well.

[[AC:Folklore and Mythology]] * In the form of ''The Tale of the Scorpion and the Turtle'', it dates back to an ancient Sanskrit collection of folklore that was first translated into English in 1570. -->A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown."\\ "My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you. Now where is the sense in that?"\\ "You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said, "Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there'd be no sense in your stinging me. Why did you do it?"\\ "It has nothing to do with sense," the drowning scorpion sadly replied. "It's just my nature to sting." ** This trope does get a twist in {{Legend of the Five Rings}}, however, as Shinsei the sage tells Bayushi of the Scorpion clan a version with a different ending (it also used a frog rather than a turtle): [[spoiler:"Little frog, [[MagnificentBastard I can swim."]]]] * A similar tale about a jackal and a camel uses this trope twice. The jackal wants to get at some tasty crabs on the other side of the river, but he's not a strong enough swimmer to beat the current. A camel comes along to get at the sugarcane that's ''also'' across the river, and agrees to ferry the jackal across. So the jackal eats his fill, but being much smaller than the camel he finishes before the camel has a chance to get more than a couple of mouthfuls; and, being full and happy, he prances about, yipping at the top of his jackal lungs, alerting the farmers to his presence and that of the camel. As the camel is swimming back across, he demands, "What the hell was that?!" "Sorry," says the jackal, "when I'm full I just feel like dancing around and yapping. It's just how I am." So the camel starts rolling over and over in the river. "What are you doing?!" cries the jackal. "Oh, sorry," says the camel, "But whenever I finish eating something I just feel like rolling over and over and over. It's just how I am." [[AC:{{Literature}}]]
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\n[[AC:Folklore and Mythology]]\n* In the form of ''The Tale of the Scorpion and the Turtle'', it dates back to an ancient Sanskrit collection of folklore that was first translated into English in 1570.\n-->A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown."\\\n"My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you. Now where is the sense in that?"\\\n"You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said, "Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there'd be no sense in your stinging me. Why did you do it?"\\\n"It has nothing to do with sense," the drowning scorpion sadly replied. "It's just my nature to sting."\n** This trope does get a twist in {{Legend of the Five Rings}}, however, as Shinsei the sage tells Bayushi of the Scorpion clan a version with a different ending (it also used a frog rather than a turtle): [[spoiler:"Little frog, [[MagnificentBastard I can swim."]]]]\n* A similar tale about a jackal and a camel uses this trope twice. The jackal wants to get at some tasty crabs on the other side of the river, but he's not a strong enough swimmer to beat the current. A camel comes along to get at the sugarcane that's ''also'' across the river, and agrees to ferry the jackal across. So the jackal eats his fill, but being much smaller than the camel he finishes before the camel has a chance to get more than a couple of mouthfuls; and, being full and happy, he prances about, yipping at the top of his jackal lungs, alerting the farmers to his presence and that of the camel. As the camel is swimming back across, he demands, "What the hell was that?!" "Sorry," says the jackal, "when I'm full I just feel like dancing around and yapping. It's just how I am." So the camel starts rolling over and over in the river. "What are you doing?!" cries the jackal. "Oh, sorry," says the camel, "But whenever I finish eating something I just feel like rolling over and over and over. It's just how I am."\n\n[[AC:{{Literature}}]][[/folder]] [[folder:Literature]]

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\n[[AC:TabletopGames]] [[/folder]] [[folder:Myths & Religion]] * In the form of ''The Tale of the Scorpion and the Turtle'', it dates back to an ancient Sanskrit collection of folklore that was first translated into English in 1570. -->A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown."\\ "My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you. Now where is the sense in that?"\\ "You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said, "Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there'd be no sense in your stinging me. Why did you do it?"\\ "It has nothing to do with sense," the drowning scorpion sadly replied. "It's just my nature to sting." ** This trope does get a twist in {{Legend of the Five Rings}}, however, as Shinsei the sage tells Bayushi of the Scorpion clan a version with a different ending (it also used a frog rather than a turtle): [[spoiler:"Little frog, [[MagnificentBastard I can swim."]]]] * A similar tale about a jackal and a camel uses this trope twice. The jackal wants to get at some tasty crabs on the other side of the river, but he's not a strong enough swimmer to beat the current. A camel comes along to get at the sugarcane that's ''also'' across the river, and agrees to ferry the jackal across. So the jackal eats his fill, but being much smaller than the camel he finishes before the camel has a chance to get more than a couple of mouthfuls; and, being full and happy, he prances about, yipping at the top of his jackal lungs, alerting the farmers to his presence and that of the camel. As the camel is swimming back across, he demands, "What the hell was that?!" "Sorry," says the jackal, "when I'm full I just feel like dancing around and yapping. It's just how I am." So the camel starts rolling over and over in the river. "What are you doing?!" cries the jackal. "Oh, sorry," says the camel, "But whenever I finish eating something I just feel like rolling over and over and over. It's just how I am." [[/folder]] [[folder:Tabletop Games]]

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\n[[AC: WebOriginal]][[/folder]] [[folder:Web Comics]] * A ''Webcomic/{{Sinfest}}'' [[http://ninja.lhost.de/wiki/index.php/2009-10-21_Normal_3 strip]] illustrates the problem with this type of thinking when Fuchsia kicks dirt on Monique's shoes. -->'''Fuchsia:''' You deserved it, walking around like you're all that!\\ '''Monique:''' It is my ''nature'' to be all that. It can't be helped.\\ '''Fuchsia:''' Well, it's ''my'' nature to torch things!\\ (''they fight'') [[/folder]] [[folder:Web Original]]

* A ''Sinfest'' [[http://ninja.lhost.de/wiki/index.php/2009-10-21_Normal_3 strip]] illustrates the problem with this type of thinking when Fuchsia kicks dirt on Monique's shoes. -->'''Fuchsia:''' You deserved it, walking around like you're all that! -->'''Monique:''' It is my ''nature'' to be all that. It can't be helped. -->'''Fuchsia:''' Well, it's ''my'' nature to torch things! -->''(they fight)'' [[AC: WesternAnimation]]
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* A ''Sinfest'' [[http://ninja.lhost.de/wiki/index.php/2009-10-21_Normal_3 strip]] illustrates the problem with this type of thinking when Fuchsia kicks dirt on Monique's shoes. -->'''Fuchsia:''' You deserved it, walking around like you're all that! -->'''Monique:''' It is my ''nature'' to be all that. It can't be helped. -->'''Fuchsia:''' Well, it's ''my'' nature to torch things! -->''(they fight)'' [[AC: WesternAnimation]][[/folder]] [[folder:Western Animation]]

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* The biggest flaw with this reasoning in humans is that we possess the ability to choose what we do, up to and including overriding instinct to do so. Some choices are very difficult to make, but people are not ruled by their own urges. Having said that, its not neccessarily wrong to follow one's instincts if those instincts are moral, or at least not against morals, with morals being a subjective issue dependant on the person and society.
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* The biggest flaw with this reasoning in humans is that we possess the ability to choose what we do, up to and including overriding instinct to do so. Some choices are very difficult to make, but people are not ruled by their own urges. Having said that, its not neccessarily necessarily wrong to follow one's instincts if those instincts are moral, or at least not against morals, with morals being a subjective issue dependant dependent on the person and society. [[/folder]]
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