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*** Not really. Odin's "plan to defend Midgard" starts with "steal the one thing that actually holds Midgard together." Odin's ''actual'' plan was to steal it and ''speed up'' Ragnarok in the process. You know how the world in Silmeria is bright, generally cheerful? You know how the world in the original VP is such a CrapsackWorld that Ragnarok is practically a mercy kill? That's ''all'' because Odin nicked the Dragon Orb in order to start the end of the world earlier.\\\
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*** Not really. Odin's "plan to defend Midgard" starts with "steal the one thing that actually holds Midgard together." Odin's ''actual'' plan was to steal it and ''speed up'' Ragnarok in the process. You know how the world in Silmeria is bright, generally cheerful? You know how And the world in the original VP is such a CrapsackWorld that Ragnarok is practically a mercy kill? That's ''all'' because Odin nicked the Dragon Orb in order to start the end of the world earlier.\\\
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*** Not really. Odin's "plan to defend Midgard" starts with "steal the one thing that actually holds Midgard together." Odin's ''actual'' plan was to steal it and ''speed up'' Ragnarok in the process. You know how the world in Silmeria is bright, generally cheerful? You know how the world in the original VP is such a CrapsackWorld that Ragnarok is practically a mercy kill? That's ''all'' because Odin nicked the Dragon Orb in order to start the end of the world earlier.\\\
Brahms keeping Silmeria's soul on ice in his castle is the only thing that's keeping the world from going even further to hell than it already is. Odin doesn't give a shit about Midgard; he just cares about winning Ragnarok at any cost. Notice how in Silmeria, his plan eventually turns out to include, "You know what? Fuck Midgard, let it burn, less to worry about."
Brahms keeping Silmeria's soul on ice in his castle is the only thing that's keeping the world from going even further to hell than it already is. Odin doesn't give a shit about Midgard; he just cares about winning Ragnarok at any cost. Notice how in Silmeria, his plan eventually turns out to include, "You know what? Fuck Midgard, let it burn, less to worry about."
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******** Not really, her main gripe is how Odin treats humans. Odin is the only person in the series that actually has a plan to defend Midgard and implements it. Silmeria and Brahms attack Odin, which, no matter what their reasoning, means they are distracting and harming the forces Odin is using the protect Midgard. Lenneth is directly responsible for Loki's ability to gain enough power to become such a major threat that he can destroy all of existence.
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*** I'm not sure I follow one thing. Why was that the only place he could die?
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*** I'm not sure I follow one thing. Why was that the only place he could die?die?
*** It's never really explained past Brahms realizing he was mortal there when they first arrived. If I had to guess, it's probably got something to do with Lezard making his own world tree/dimension with its own rules.
*** It's never really explained past Brahms realizing he was mortal there when they first arrived. If I had to guess, it's probably got something to do with Lezard making his own world tree/dimension with its own rules.
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******* And Silmeria's actions kept everything from going to hell even sooner.
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** The way I understood it, Brahms became an undead to protect Midgard from Odin and his machinations. With Rufus taking Odin's place, and the Dragon Orb in safe hands, he felt that mission was complete, and he chose to die in the only place he ''could'' die. Also, recall what happened to Valkyrie's soul(s): Valkyrie died in that world too, and all four of her souls separated and went back where they belonged.
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** The way I understood it, Brahms became an undead to protect Midgard from Odin and his machinations. With Rufus taking Odin's place, and the Dragon Orb in safe hands, he felt that mission was complete, and he chose to die in the only place he ''could'' die. Also, recall what happened to Valkyrie's soul(s): Valkyrie died in that world too, and all four of her souls separated and went back where they belonged.belonged.
*** I'm not sure I follow one thing. Why was that the only place he could die?
*** I'm not sure I follow one thing. Why was that the only place he could die?
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* VP:S - Why did Brahms choose to [[spoiler:lie down and die at the end of the game, for no apparent reason and in a world where his soul might end up trapped forever?]] It seems completely out of character, and it especially bugs me because [[spoiler:Dylan's soul was apparently connected to Brahms, so he wasn't just killing himself, he was killing Dylan too.]] Did I miss something?
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* VP:S - Why did Brahms choose to [[spoiler:lie down and die at the end of the game, for no apparent reason and in a world where his soul might end up trapped forever?]] It seems completely out of character, and it especially bugs me because [[spoiler:Dylan's soul was apparently connected to Brahms, so he wasn't just killing himself, he was killing Dylan too.]] Did I miss something?something?
** The way I understood it, Brahms became an undead to protect Midgard from Odin and his machinations. With Rufus taking Odin's place, and the Dragon Orb in safe hands, he felt that mission was complete, and he chose to die in the only place he ''could'' die. Also, recall what happened to Valkyrie's soul(s): Valkyrie died in that world too, and all four of her souls separated and went back where they belonged.
** The way I understood it, Brahms became an undead to protect Midgard from Odin and his machinations. With Rufus taking Odin's place, and the Dragon Orb in safe hands, he felt that mission was complete, and he chose to die in the only place he ''could'' die. Also, recall what happened to Valkyrie's soul(s): Valkyrie died in that world too, and all four of her souls separated and went back where they belonged.
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** I think they all live (well, aside from being dead to begin with, anyway). Right after Loki wrecks the world, Lenneth gains her powers as a Creator and remakes it. I doubt she just put the architecture back together and called it good. It's unclear what happens to the other Einherjar in specifics, but it's almost certain that she kept them alive, either in Asgard or she gave them their lives back on Midgard.
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** I think they all live (well, aside from being dead to begin with, anyway). Right after Loki wrecks the world, Lenneth gains her powers as a Creator and remakes it. I doubt she just put the architecture back together and called it good. It's unclear what happens to the other Einherjar in specifics, but it's almost certain that she kept them alive, either in Asgard or she gave them their lives back on Midgard.
* VP:S - Why did Brahms choose to [[spoiler:lie down and die at the end of the game, for no apparent reason and in a world where his soul might end up trapped forever?]] It seems completely out of character, and it especially bugs me because [[spoiler:Dylan's soul was apparently connected to Brahms, so he wasn't just killing himself, he was killing Dylan too.]] Did I miss something?
* VP:S - Why did Brahms choose to [[spoiler:lie down and die at the end of the game, for no apparent reason and in a world where his soul might end up trapped forever?]] It seems completely out of character, and it especially bugs me because [[spoiler:Dylan's soul was apparently connected to Brahms, so he wasn't just killing himself, he was killing Dylan too.]] Did I miss something?
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* So what happens to the other Einherjar besides Lucian at the end of VP:L? Do they all just disappear, despite the fact that at least some of them were with Lenneth and should have survived with her? (Heck, three of them are helping Lenneth fight Loki; at least those three should have lived, right?)
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* So what happens to the other Einherjar besides Lucian at the end of VP:L? Do they all just disappear, despite the fact that at least some of them were with Lenneth and should have survived with her? (Heck, three of them are helping Lenneth fight Loki; at least those three should have lived, right?)right?)
** I think they all live (well, aside from being dead to begin with, anyway). Right after Loki wrecks the world, Lenneth gains her powers as a Creator and remakes it. I doubt she just put the architecture back together and called it good. It's unclear what happens to the other Einherjar in specifics, but it's almost certain that she kept them alive, either in Asgard or she gave them their lives back on Midgard.
** I think they all live (well, aside from being dead to begin with, anyway). Right after Loki wrecks the world, Lenneth gains her powers as a Creator and remakes it. I doubt she just put the architecture back together and called it good. It's unclear what happens to the other Einherjar in specifics, but it's almost certain that she kept them alive, either in Asgard or she gave them their lives back on Midgard.
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** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle (exceptions being the wicked i.e. Badrach and Wylfred). So, if you fail to pick up anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now with no memories of their former lives. Basically what happened to Alicia in the second game.
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** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle (exceptions being the wicked i.e. Badrach and Wylfred). So, if you fail to pick up anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now with no memories of their former lives. Basically what happened to Alicia in the second game.game.
* So what happens to the other Einherjar besides Lucian at the end of VP:L? Do they all just disappear, despite the fact that at least some of them were with Lenneth and should have survived with her? (Heck, three of them are helping Lenneth fight Loki; at least those three should have lived, right?)
* So what happens to the other Einherjar besides Lucian at the end of VP:L? Do they all just disappear, despite the fact that at least some of them were with Lenneth and should have survived with her? (Heck, three of them are helping Lenneth fight Loki; at least those three should have lived, right?)
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*** In the original mythology, sure. But if ''Covenant Of The Plume'' is any indication, Hel is closer to Hell in this series.
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*** Keep in mind that Hel does not equal "Hell" in the Christian sense. It is not a punishment, just where you go when you die unless you are special enough to be chosen for a different fate.
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****** In and of itself, this is a pretty flawed reason for liking Silmeria based on the endings in the first game. Ending B, following Odin's plan for Ragnarok, Lenneth's forces defeat Surt with almost no casualties and Loki more or less doesn't do anything of major significance. Ending A, virtually every God and Midgard get wiped out by Loki as a direct result of Lenneth's actions. Granted she does fix it afterwards, but it was something that never had to be broken in the first place. Kind of hard to justify all that was worth Lenneth remembering having a slight crush on Lucien (which is essentially what Ending A boils down to), which Odin took because he thought it would distract her from the whole "saving the world" thing (which, given, it causes her to set the events in motion that allow Loki to destroy the world, is a rather justified action on his part).
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***** She mouthed off to Odin because of his plans for Ragnarok and Brahms. That is said.
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***** She mouthed off to Odin because of his plans for Ragnarok and Brahms. That is said.
said. She's also described as the most rebellious of the Valkyries. LawOfConservationOfDetail.
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***** She mouthed off to Odin because of his plans for Ragnarok and Brahms. That is said.
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**** Um, yeah, but the circumstances that led to that moment are left unsaid. How do we know she didn't go to hell and back before reaching that point?
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*** Um, the second game, where it's stated that she was sealed in Alicia specifically because she spoke out against Odin?
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****** If you have a source to prove that, I'd love to read it. In the meantime, Silmeria fans are in the minority, and for good reason as far as this troper is concerned.
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*** Well, Loki's motivations can be surmised if not outright stated by the game: He wants to overthrow Odin and rule. When people start objecting to that, that's when he starts killing everybody with the Dragon Orb.
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*** Loki's basic motivation in the actual mythology is "because he can." Not necessarily something that can be blamed on rushing things. He is the very definition of the Neutral Chaotic alignment.
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***** For starters, she's the only valkyrie willing to tell Odin where to stick it without having to go through hell and back.
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**** Why on earth would anyone ever like Silmeria?
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*** Which leaves those of us that do like Silmeria shut out, and even many of those that don't like her would like to have the full set.
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** Well, arrogance ''is'' one of Odin's biggest traits in this series. He probably thought nobody would dare steal it while he's around.
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** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle (exceptions being the wicked i.e. Badrach and Wylfred). So, if you fail to pick anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now.
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** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle (exceptions being the wicked i.e. Badrach and Wylfred). So, if you fail to pick up anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now.now with no memories of their former lives. Basically what happened to Alicia in the second game.
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** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle. If you fail to pick anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now.
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** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle. If cycle (exceptions being the wicked i.e. Badrach and Wylfred). So, if you fail to pick anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now.
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** Well darn. I was sorta hoping you could save Llewellyn (even if I was pretty sure [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything The Dev Team Did Not Think Of Everything]]). Though it makes you wonder just what happens to them if she's not around to grab their souls. Down to Hel, perhaps?
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** Well darn. I was sorta hoping you could save Llewellyn (even if I was pretty sure [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything The Dev Team Did Not Think Of Everything]]). Though it makes you wonder just what happens to them if she's not around to grab their souls. Down to Hel, perhaps?perhaps?
** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle. If you fail to pick anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now.
** Well, in the best ending when you confront Freya, she does say that when a human dies their soul reenters the rebirth cycle. If you fail to pick anyone from Celia's group, then I suppose they're in a crib somewhere now.
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** If you skip picking Lawfer or someone else, you still get the "Celia ends up all alone" seqeuence. So they died with or without Lenneth's help.
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** If you skip picking Lawfer or someone else, you still get the "Celia ends up all alone" seqeuence. So they died with or without Lenneth's help.help.
** Well darn. I was sorta hoping you could save Llewellyn (even if I was pretty sure [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything The Dev Team Did Not Think Of Everything]]). Though it makes you wonder just what happens to them if she's not around to grab their souls. Down to Hel, perhaps?
** Well darn. I was sorta hoping you could save Llewellyn (even if I was pretty sure [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything The Dev Team Did Not Think Of Everything]]). Though it makes you wonder just what happens to them if she's not around to grab their souls. Down to Hel, perhaps?
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* In the original Norse myths, Valkyries didn't just pick up dead warriors, but if a warrior was badass enough to make it into Valhalla, the Valkyries would subtly rearrange things to make sure they died. Could this mean that Wylfred was right about Lenneth being responsible for Thyodor's death? And does this mean, if you skip picking up an Einherjar in the original game, they'll survive?
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* In the original Norse myths, Valkyries didn't just pick up dead warriors, but if a warrior was badass enough to make it into Valhalla, the Valkyries would subtly rearrange things to make sure they died. Could this mean that Wylfred was right about Lenneth being responsible for Thyodor's death? And does this mean, if you skip picking up an Einherjar in the original game, they'll survive?survive?
** If you skip picking Lawfer or someone else, you still get the "Celia ends up all alone" seqeuence. So they died with or without Lenneth's help.
** If you skip picking Lawfer or someone else, you still get the "Celia ends up all alone" seqeuence. So they died with or without Lenneth's help.
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** There are a lot of things introduced in this game but left unexplained. The ending also looks rushed, Loki appears out nowhere and kills everybody for no better reason than he can. My best guess is that the developpers ran out of time or money or something and they had to release what they had quickly.
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** There are a lot of things introduced in this game but left unexplained. The ending also looks rushed, Loki appears out nowhere and kills everybody for no better reason than he can. My best guess is that the developpers ran out of time or money or something and they had to release what they had quickly.quickly.
* In the original Norse myths, Valkyries didn't just pick up dead warriors, but if a warrior was badass enough to make it into Valhalla, the Valkyries would subtly rearrange things to make sure they died. Could this mean that Wylfred was right about Lenneth being responsible for Thyodor's death? And does this mean, if you skip picking up an Einherjar in the original game, they'll survive?
* In the original Norse myths, Valkyries didn't just pick up dead warriors, but if a warrior was badass enough to make it into Valhalla, the Valkyries would subtly rearrange things to make sure they died. Could this mean that Wylfred was right about Lenneth being responsible for Thyodor's death? And does this mean, if you skip picking up an Einherjar in the original game, they'll survive?
