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History Headscratchers / UminekoWhenTheyCry

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** Money might also be an issue. Despite being from a rich family, she gets the worst end of the deal due to being the youngest sibling so she might not be able to afford one and she might not have a lot of friends for whatever reason.
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* What exactly are the four treasures mentioned in the epitaph referring to?
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** [[spoiler: because like it's been said over and over, you can't really trust what's being told or shown to you. It's something to throw the reader off from solving the mystery. It's been established that The Man from 19 Years Ago is Yasu using her natural voice (it's more or less confirmed that she was born male but identifies as female, one of the things tipping her off to her birth gender being most likely her voice cracking and turning into the voice of a man during puberty) Most 19 year old men's voices will settle by the time they're 17-18 years old, so Yasu's real voice would sound more like that of an adult male.]]
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******* It actually isn't out-of-character for her. Erika is highly intelligent, but once she comes across a theory that she thinks is the right one, she refuses to acknowledge anything that proves it wrong because she's so convinced that she's right. At that point she'll see only what she wants to see. The part in [=EP5=] when she decides that Natsuhi is the culprit is the best example of this.
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** When Maria brings her toys outside, she also talks to them as if they were real people, which not only makes people think of Maria as an oddball but also makes Rosa believe it will reflect badly on her as a parent. In the visual novel it's also mentioned that Maria takes her toys to school with her and talks to them during class, which of course the teachers would have issue with. Maria being left at home alone probably has something to do with ValuesDissonance: in Japan parents aren't so paranoid about their children being by themselves, even though it's still acknowledged that Rosa shouldn't be ditching Maria as much as she is. As for the child services thing, Rosa has told Maria never to call them or get their attention since she doesn't want them finding out how bad a parent she is.
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******* Yes and no; this creates an even bigger problem; Erika is portrayed as an intellectual rapist but still as someone quite smart. This means that even if it wasn't from her point of view, she SAW that "everyone on the island" is one less person that she thought, and she didn't say anything about it, at all. During ep5 and even during ep6 when the number of people on the island was often an important subject. Not even a word when this isn't something she would have forgotten; even if we play the "e5 was about Natsuhi" card (which is still strange; she isn't the kind who woul not even say a word about this) ep6 would have been solved from the start. Even if what we saw isn't from her point of view, this is still very, very out-of-character for her.

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******* Yes and no; this creates an even bigger problem; Erika is portrayed as an intellectual rapist but still as someone quite smart. This means that even if it wasn't from her point of view, she SAW that "everyone on the island" is one less person that she thought, and she didn't say anything about it, at all. During ep5 and even during ep6 when the number of people on the island was often an important subject. Not even a word when this isn't something she would have forgotten; even if we play the "e5 "ep5 was about framing Natsuhi" card (which is still strange; she isn't the kind who woul would not even say a word about this) this, if only in order to torture Yasu's truth; intellectual rapist, again) ep6 would have been solved from the start. Even if what we saw isn't from her point of view, this is still very, very out-of-character for her.
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******* Yes and no; this creates an even bigger problem; Erika is portrayed as an intellectual rapist but still as someone quite smart. This means that even if it wasn't from her point of view, she SAW that "everyone on the island" is one less person that she thought, and she didn't say anything about it, at all. During ep5 and even during ep6 when the number of people on the island was often an important subject. Even if what we saw aren't from her point of view, this is still very, very out-of-character for her.

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******* Yes and no; this creates an even bigger problem; Erika is portrayed as an intellectual rapist but still as someone quite smart. This means that even if it wasn't from her point of view, she SAW that "everyone on the island" is one less person that she thought, and she didn't say anything about it, at all. During ep5 and even during ep6 when the number of people on the island was often an important subject. Not even a word when this isn't something she would have forgotten; even if we play the "e5 was about Natsuhi" card (which is still strange; she isn't the kind who woul not even say a word about this) ep6 would have been solved from the start. Even if what we saw aren't isn't from her point of view, this is still very, very out-of-character for her.
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*******Yes and no; this creates an even bigger problem; Erika is portrayed as an intellectual rapist but still as someone quite smart. This means that even if it wasn't from her point of view, she SAW that "everyone on the island" is one less person that she thought, and she didn't say anything about it, at all. During ep5 and even during ep6 when the number of people on the island was often an important subject. Even if what we saw aren't from her point of view, this is still very, very out-of-character for her.
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*You know the airport scene in Legend of the golden witch where the adults are talking about Ange being sick? Can I just ask what the hell a vomiting cold is? If the person is vomiting they probably have the flu not a cold!
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*I've only read the manga so it's possible something was left out but in Alliance why couldn't Rosa just arrange a babysitter for Maria while she was out of town? I know she's a crappy parent but it's common knowledge that you shouldn't leave a child under twelve home alone. For that matter why does she get mad at Maria when someone calls child protective services? Did she honestly believe nobody was going to notice a nine year old walking the streets alone late at night? Also why was it such a big deal that Maria had brought her toys outside? Lots of kids drag toys around, how exactly does that reflect poorly on the parent?
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** As far as I can gather, it goes like this: The Red are objectively true facts, though they can be worded in ways to mislead people. The Blue are hypotheses that can be confirmed or denied by the fact, aka the Red. The Gold, on the other hand, is a WordOfGod, a statement from someone who know the right answer, but you have to actually trust them that they are telling you the right answer. Let's put it into a different context for an example: You are playing a DnD game. You rolling a ten is a Red, a fact that cannot be questioned. The DM saying that it dealt 8 damage and the monster is still alive is a Gold, since he is the only one who has the monster-table in from of him and you have to trust his word on and that he wouldn't lie to you about it just to mess with you.

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** As far as I can gather, it goes like this: The Red are objectively true facts, though they can be worded in ways to mislead people. The Blue are hypotheses that can be confirmed or denied by the fact, aka the Red. The Gold, on the other hand, is a WordOfGod, a statement from someone who know the right answer, but you have to actually trust them that they are telling you the right answer. Let's put it into a different context for an example: You are playing a DnD TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons game. You rolling a ten is a Red, a fact that cannot be questioned. The DM saying that it dealt 8 damage and the monster is still alive is a Gold, since he is the only one who has the monster-table in from of him and you have to trust his word on and that he wouldn't lie to you about it just to mess with you.
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** It's really not a headscratcher. The Red always has to be treated in context. In EP6 there are entire, multiple sentence long segments that are functionally Red because they have been 'Acknowledged' in Red right afterwards. By your logic only, since only the word 'Acknowledged' was in red, only that one would would be treated as absolute truth, which is just silly.
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**** Actually there are three possible explanations for why Hideyoshi lied. Bribe: Yasu had the gold and Eva and Hideyoshi were in need of money fast, so she simply bribed them. Threat: Remember that Yasu had the entire island rigged to blow into high heavens. If someone like Genji vouched for this, it would have served as a very potent and credible threat. Finally, ignorance: Taken some of Eva's comments and actions (calling the mashed-up faces of the victims "scribbles", leaving the safety of the group in the middle of the night to return to their room, etc.), it is not entirely impossible that she and Hideyoshi thought they were only playing along to a big prank played on Battler and weren't even aware that there were real murders.

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**** Actually there are three possible explanations for why Hideyoshi lied. Bribe: Yasu had the gold and Eva and Hideyoshi were in need of money fast, so she simply bribed them. Threat: Remember that Yasu had the entire island rigged to blow into high heavens. If someone like Genji vouched for this, it would have served as a very potent and credible threat. Finally, ignorance: Taken some of Eva's comments and actions (calling the mashed-up faces of the victims "scribbles", "scribbled up", leaving the safety of the group in the middle of the night to return to their room, her trying to engage Battler in methodical murder scenarios instead of being freaked out, etc.), it is not entirely impossible that she and Hideyoshi thought they were only playing along to a big prank played on Battler similar to the ones they do in EP 5 and 6, and weren't even aware that there were real murders.
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**** Actually there are three possible explanations for why Hideyoshi lied. Bribe: Yasu had the gold and Eva and Hideyoshi were in need of money fast, so she simply bribed them. Threat: Remember that Yasu had the entire island rigged to blow into high heavens. If someone like Genji vouched for this, it would have served as a very potent and credible threat. Finally, ignorance: Taken some of Eva's comments and actions (calling the mashed-up faces of the victims "scribbles", leaving the safety of the group in the middle of the night to return to their room, etc.), it is not entirely impossible that she and Hideyoshi thought they were only playing along to a big prank played on Battler and weren't even aware that there were real murders.
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***** Or, alternatively, the line "Even if you do join us-There are 17 people." could be taken as such: EVEN if she joins them, there are STILL only 17 people, meaning that of she doesn't join them, there are only 16. Since we have 17 characters who were supposed to be alive at the beginning of each game, the only way this could be stated in Red is if two characters are actually one person. [[spoiler:Cue Yasu.]]
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*** Just the fact that the Knox Decalogue can be declared in Red proves that they apply to the games. Also, it is the entire point of the series that the mysteries are solvable and were designed to be solvable because they are messages to Battler. [[spoiler: To put it bluntly: Yasu/Shannon/Kanon wanted to kill everyone during the family conference, no matter what. There is no question about that, as the bomb, the reparation letters with the money deposit and the sheer amount of preparation required for all that makes it about as obvious as it gets. The only reason she decides to go with the murder-mystery plot instead was the unexpected return of Battler, who was Yasu's first love. All the crazy murders in the series are just her way of betting the last of her hopes on Battler remembering their childhood promise and realizing who she is, so the entire series would make no sense if she didn't follow the Decalogue and if the crimes were unsolvable.]]
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** As far as I can gather, it goes like this: The Red are objectively true facts, though they can be worded in ways to mislead people. The Blue are hypotheses that can be confirmed or denied by the fact, aka the Red. The Gold, on the other hand, is a WordOfGod, a statement from someone who know the right answer, but you have to actually trust them that they are telling you the right answer. Let's put it into a different context for an example: You are playing a DnD game. You rolling a ten is a Red, a fact that cannot be questioned. The DM saying that it dealt 8 damage and the monster is still alive is a Gold, since he is the only one who has the monster-table in from of him and you have to trust his word on and that he wouldn't lie to you about it just to mess with you.
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*** Exactly. Since the reveal that every single game is fiction in-universe (the bottled messages in EP1 and 2 and Hachijo Tohya's writings afterwards), the truth of the matter is that the meta-world is just characters in a fictional story analyzing their own fictional story for the benefit of the readers who are also fictional characters and reading the story for the sake of the actual, real life readers. Ryukishi's writing is kind of twisted like that...
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* In the visual novel, the voice of the Man from 19 Years Ago is described as being like a boy's voice that hasn't broken yet...so in the PS3 version, why did they have him being voiced by DaisukeOno, who clearly makes him sound like an adult man?

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* In the visual novel, the voice of the Man from 19 Years Ago is described as being like a boy's voice that hasn't broken yet...so in the PS3 version, why did they have him being voiced by DaisukeOno, Creator/DaisukeOno, who clearly makes him sound like an adult man?
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******* Correct. Erika is the detective, but ''we are not seeing the scene from her point of view.'' It is Battler's viewpoint, which is stated in red (Knox's 9th) to be subjective in this game. [[http://kerkec.tumblr.com/post/69554824714/regarding-ep5 This post]] does an excellent job of pointing out how cleverly Ryukishi played with the narrative there.

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******* Correct. Erika is the detective, but ''we are not seeing the scene from her point of view.'' It is Battler's viewpoint, which is stated in red (Knox's 9th) to be subjective in this game. [[http://kerkec.tumblr.com/post/69554824714/regarding-ep5 This post]] does an excellent job of pointing out how cleverly Ryukishi played with the narrative there.
there.
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******* Correct. Erika is the detective, but ''we are not seeing the scene from her point of view.'' It is Battler's viewpoint, which is stated in red (Knox's 9th) to be subjective in this game. [[This post http://kerkec.tumblr.com/post/69554824714/regarding-ep5]] does an excellent job of pointing out how cleverly Ryukishi played with the narrative there.

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******* Correct. Erika is the detective, but ''we are not seeing the scene from her point of view.'' It is Battler's viewpoint, which is stated in red (Knox's 9th) to be subjective in this game. [[This post http://kerkec.[[http://kerkec.tumblr.com/post/69554824714/regarding-ep5]] com/post/69554824714/regarding-ep5 This post]] does an excellent job of pointing out how cleverly Ryukishi played with the narrative there.
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******* Even if Erika did see Shannon and Kanon, that scene isn't actually from Erika's perspective. It's from Battler's, whose perspective is stated to be unreliable in [=EP5=]. So we don't know what she actually saw.

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******* Even if Erika did see Shannon and Kanon, that scene isn't actually from Erika's perspective. It's from Battler's, whose perspective is stated to be unreliable in [=EP5=]. So we don't know what she actually saw.
saw.
******* Correct. Erika is the detective, but ''we are not seeing the scene from her point of view.'' It is Battler's viewpoint, which is stated in red (Knox's 9th) to be subjective in this game. [[This post http://kerkec.tumblr.com/post/69554824714/regarding-ep5]] does an excellent job of pointing out how cleverly Ryukishi played with the narrative there.
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*** Maria's knowledge is true, but she knows a lot less them it seems. For starters, the Scorpion Amulet is hinted to be a simple toy, not a genuine charm. Her Hebrew is crappy because she doesn't really knows the language but, instead, memorized how to 'draw' them in these specific magical circles. In [=EP7=] [[spoiler:it is reveled it was ''Maria'' who taught Beatrice. This, however, doesn't mean she is all the knowledgeable in the occult, but, rather, that the murderers happen following the few things Maria knows]]. Maria only knows about some random specific topics but as, 'by chance', Beatrice used pentagrams Maria knew and Maria is the only one explaining them to Battler, it seems he knowledge is more vast than it actually is.

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*** Maria's knowledge is true, but she knows a lot less them it seems. For starters, the Scorpion Amulet is hinted to be a simple toy, not a genuine charm. Her Hebrew is crappy because she doesn't really knows know the language but, but instead, memorized how to 'draw' them in these specific magical circles. the magic circles from books. In [=EP7=] [[spoiler:it is reveled revealed it was ''Maria'' who taught Beatrice. This, however, doesn't mean she is all the knowledgeable in the occult, but, rather, but rather that the murderers happen following the few things Maria knows]]. Maria only knows about some random specific topics but as, 'by chance', Beatrice used pentagrams Maria knew and Maria is the only one explaining them to Battler, it seems he her knowledge is more vast than it actually is.
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*** Maria's knowledge is true, but she knows a lot less them it seems. For starters, the Scorpion Amulet is hinted to be a simple toy, not a genuine charm. Her Hebrew is crappy because she doesn't really knows the language but, instead, memorized how to 'draw' them in these specific magical circles. In [=EP7=][[spoiler:it is reveled it was ''Maria'' who taught Beatrice. This, however, doesn't mean she is all the knowledgeable in the occult, but, rather, that the murderers happen following the few things Maria knows]]. Maria only knows about some random specific topics but as, 'by chance', Beatrice used pentagrams Maria knew and Maria is the only one explaining them to Battler, it seems he knowledge is more vast than it actually is.

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*** Maria's knowledge is true, but she knows a lot less them it seems. For starters, the Scorpion Amulet is hinted to be a simple toy, not a genuine charm. Her Hebrew is crappy because she doesn't really knows the language but, instead, memorized how to 'draw' them in these specific magical circles. In [=EP7=][[spoiler:it [=EP7=] [[spoiler:it is reveled it was ''Maria'' who taught Beatrice. This, however, doesn't mean she is all the knowledgeable in the occult, but, rather, that the murderers happen following the few things Maria knows]]. Maria only knows about some random specific topics but as, 'by chance', Beatrice used pentagrams Maria knew and Maria is the only one explaining them to Battler, it seems he knowledge is more vast than it actually is.
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** I'm not sure how much of a 'headscratcher' this is since the anime, at least, shows both contextual truths and metaphorical truths being said in Red Text. Ange (EP 3 and EP 4) objected to it on the basis that it was unfair, probably seeing this aspect of it. And, further, in the last episode of the anime (the end of EP 4), Battler solves one riddle through a 'faked death' claim by the rationale that the people had to be dead when a Red Truth claimed they were dead, but they didn't have to be dead when their bodies were initially found. Also, there was a point where Beato almost claimed something that she knew was patently false in Red Text but was stopped by Ronove before she could get more than halfway through; when Battler tried to say something he thought wholeheartedly was true, he didn't even get half-way before experiencing quite-extreme physical pain.
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****** In the anime, it's explicitly mentioned to Beatrice that the primary reason Battler won't accept witches and magic is that the murders supposedly being done by the magic are too gruesome to actually be practical sacrifices. Someone above said something about the difference between a homicidal maniac and a god-like witch, and that is the very issue that Battler has: the maniac with a gun would explain the nature of the deaths by their mania, while a witch could kill them in their sleep instead of grinding their faces off. In fact, he starts to warm up to Beato and initially allows that witches could exist after he sees Beato killing 'elegantly' instead of exactly as one would expect a 'maniac with a gun' to kill.
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*** [[spoiler: It's both a yes and a no. ''Long answer'': Battler survived the Rokkenjima accident, but he went through multiple accidents before being found by Hachijo. He had amnesia as a result of all the trauma but slowly and surely, he started to remember his life as Ushiromiya Battler except he didn't feel like it was his life or his memories. Every time he tried to remember, they said something along the lines of how "his body would reject it" and at one point he remembered and attempted to commit suicide, which resulted in him permanently forced to use a wheelchair. He wrote the stories, not just to jump start his memories, but also to put his past life as Battler behind him. '''TL;DR''': Battler does get his family and Beatrice back and live happily ever after in the Golden Land… in the world of the forgeries, written by Hachijo Tooya, who is actually Battler after the accident trying to put the past that is his--but doesn't feel like it is his-- to rest.]]

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*** [[spoiler: It's both a yes and a no. ''Long answer'': '''Long answer''': Battler survived the Rokkenjima accident, but he went through multiple accidents before being found by Hachijo. He had amnesia as a result of all the trauma but slowly and surely, he started to remember his life as Ushiromiya Battler except he didn't feel like it was his life or his memories. Every time he tried to remember, they said something along the lines of how "his body would reject it" and at one point he remembered and attempted to commit suicide, which resulted in him permanently forced to use a wheelchair. He wrote the stories, not just to jump start his memories, but also to put his past life as Battler behind him. '''TL;DR''': Battler does get his family and Beatrice back and live happily ever after in the Golden Land… in the world of the forgeries, written by Hachijo Tooya, who is actually Battler after the accident trying to put the past that is his--but doesn't feel like it is his-- to rest.]]
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*** [[spoiler: It's both a yes and a no. ''Long answer'': Battler survived the Rokkenjima accident, but he went through multiple accidents before being found by Hachijo. He had amnesia as a result of all the trauma but slowly and surely, he started to remember his life as Ushiromiya Battler except he didn't feel like it was his life or his memories. Every time he tried to remember, they said something along the lines of how "his body would reject it" and at one point he remembered and attempted to commit suicide, which resulted in him permanently forced to use a wheelchair. He wrote the stories, not just to jump start his memories, but also to put his past life as Battler behind him. '''TL;DR'': Battler does get his family and Beatrice back and live happily ever after in the Golden Land… in the world of the forgeries, written by Hachijo Tooya, who is actually Battler after the accident trying to put the past that is his--but doesn't feel like it is his-- to rest.]]

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*** [[spoiler: It's both a yes and a no. ''Long answer'': Battler survived the Rokkenjima accident, but he went through multiple accidents before being found by Hachijo. He had amnesia as a result of all the trauma but slowly and surely, he started to remember his life as Ushiromiya Battler except he didn't feel like it was his life or his memories. Every time he tried to remember, they said something along the lines of how "his body would reject it" and at one point he remembered and attempted to commit suicide, which resulted in him permanently forced to use a wheelchair. He wrote the stories, not just to jump start his memories, but also to put his past life as Battler behind him. '''TL;DR'': '''TL;DR''': Battler does get his family and Beatrice back and live happily ever after in the Golden Land… in the world of the forgeries, written by Hachijo Tooya, who is actually Battler after the accident trying to put the past that is his--but doesn't feel like it is his-- to rest.]]

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