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Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
*** From what implied by what she says, Miyuki's home life wasn't great She seemed to have been closer to her dad, considering that she made him a scarf but she don't seem like she had any friends, which'd prolly explain why she lashed out the way she did at the thought of losing her cat. Obvs, people might go ballistic after losing a pet but the way she went ballstic suggests a FriendlessBackground
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*** From what implied by what she says, Miyuki's home life wasn't great She seemed to have been closer to her dad, considering that she made him a scarf but she don't seem like she had any friends, which'd prolly explain why she lashed out the way she did at the thought of losing her cat. Obvs, people might go ballistic after losing a pet but the way she went ballstic suggests a FriendlessBackgroundFriendlessBackground and that her relationship with her parents was strained.
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Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
Miyuki's arc feels incomplete. She's coincidentally met up with her policeman father again : What happens next ? We'll never know because the film ends right at this point. Hints of her past are given, her reaction to seeing her father in the train next to hers is running away... All that feels like it was building up to something that was axed from the movie.
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Changed line(s) 17,18 (click to see context) from:
** Also, how did Miyuki come across Gin and Hana? The two adults obviously have friendly/"like an old married couple" chemistry and thus probably knew each other for a good length of time after meeting up one way or another. But why or how did Miyuki get lucky enough to run into this benign and protective pair of pseudo "hobo parents" instead of some gang or something? Two homeless dudes even decide to back off from dealing with her when they realize who she is, and thus who Miyuki keeps company with. Gin. Stating she's "the light of his life". How do they know this? Is Gin some sort of hobo badass and openly talks about how much he loves Miyuki like his own kid to other hobos? Why?
Also, how will Miyuki's adoptive "father and mother" interact with her actual parents?
Also, how will Miyuki's adoptive "father and mother" interact with her actual parents?
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----
* Also, how did Miyuki come across Gin and Hana? The two adults obviously have friendly/"like an old married couple" chemistry and thus probably knew each other for a good length of time after meeting up one way or another. But why or how did Miyuki get lucky enough to run into this benign and protective pair of pseudo "hobo parents" instead of some gang or something? Two homeless dudes even decide to back off from dealing with her when they realize who she is, and thus who Miyuki keeps company with. Gin. Stating she's "the light of his life". How do they know this? Is Gin some sort of hobo badass and openly talks about how much he loves Miyuki like his own kid to other hobos? Why?
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
** Well, to answer one point, Miyuki's been a runaway long enough to drop a shit-ton of weight, so, she probably encountered them not real, real long after running away from home and Hana and Gin took her in.
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** Well, to answer one point, Miyuki's been a runaway long enough to drop a shit-ton of weight, so, she probably encountered them not real, real long after running away from home and, somehow, Gin likely got her out of a jam. In a subtle way, knowin' that Gin has a daughter, it'd make sense as to why he's so protective of her, as he was never really there for his own daughter and Hana and Gin took her in.Miyuki does favor his daughter looks-wise to a point.
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!!Just who is Miss Hana?
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!!Miyuki's arc
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**Well, to answer one point, Miyuki's been a runaway long enough to drop a shit-ton of weight, so, she probably encountered them not real, real long after running away from home and Hana and Gin took her in.
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
Okay, I've watched the movie through, and I'm still not sure. Was Hana supposed to be a CampGay crossdresser, or Transgender? It feels like the writers either couldn't decide, or didn't know there was actually a difference.
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Okay, I've watched the movie through, and I'm still not sure. Was Hana supposed to be a CampGay crossdresser, or Transgender? It feels like the writers either couldn't decide, or didn't know there was actually a difference.a
difference.
* She's an okama, and as someone who's been to Japanese okama bars like the one Hana worked in, she's pretty accurately portrayed. Japanese LGBT culture doesn't fit perfectly into western, 2020s gender identity concepts, and 20 years ago that was even more true.
difference.
* She's an okama, and as someone who's been to Japanese okama bars like the one Hana worked in, she's pretty accurately portrayed. Japanese LGBT culture doesn't fit perfectly into western, 2020s gender identity concepts, and 20 years ago that was even more true.
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Dewicked trope
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
Okay, I've watched the movie through, and I'm still not sure. Was Hana supposed to be a CampGay crossdresser, or {{Transgender}}? It feels like the writers either couldn't decide, or didn't know there was actually a difference.
* I think she is {{Transgender}}. She seems to identify with being a woman, as opposed to merely liking to dress in women clothes, so she is not just a crossdresser.
* I think she is {{Transgender}}. She seems to identify with being a woman, as opposed to merely liking to dress in women clothes, so she is not just a crossdresser.
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Okay, I've watched the movie through, and I'm still not sure. Was Hana supposed to be a CampGay crossdresser, or {{Transgender}}? Transgender? It feels like the writers either couldn't decide, or didn't know there was actually a difference.
* I think she is{{Transgender}}.Transgender. She seems to identify with being a woman, as opposed to merely liking to dress in women clothes, so she is not just a crossdresser.
* I think she is
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Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
Why were there Latin Americans in Japan?
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I was just asking a question.
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
*** We never know because her story isn't a focus and the movie ends just as Miyuki and her father meet up again in the hospital.
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*** We never know because her story isn't a focus and the movie ends just as Miyuki and her father meet up again in the hospital.hospital.
Why were there Latin Americans in Japan?
Why were there Latin Americans in Japan?
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Changed line(s) 4,6 (click to see context) from:
*** No, crossdresser. When they go the hospital, the doctor refers to Hana as "he" in conversation with Gin. Since he's giving advice on what Hana should do, he must have examined Hana before this conversation. Ergo, he knows Hana is physically male. Also, Hana uses the self-descriptions "homo" and "queer" several times. If Hana were a trans, she would identify herself as a heterosexual woman and wouldn't use those terms. (We know Hana prefers men because, as Miyuki notices, he loves Gin.) In the original Japanese, Hana uses the self-descripton "okama", which is a slang term for a homosexual male, especially a crossdresser.
*** Hana's physical gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like she could afford an opperation if she wanted one. Hana explicitly states that she’s a woman in her heart, and says that she always fantasized about being a mother with a husband. One of the implied reasons she’s so obsessed with motherhood and taking care of Kiyoko is that it’s a way she can be a woman; she can’t retroactively make it so she was born female, she can’t make it so people see her as a woman, but she can take care of a child. When Hana’s being melodramatic and talking about what she wants and how she wants to be seen, she uses feminine language. When’s she’s feeling down about herself or is referring to the way people see her, she uses masculine language. This alone is enough to qualify her as transgender.
*** I was under the impression that Hanna considers herself a woman at heart and probably would like to have an operation, but that since she doesn't have the money for that she just kinda rolls with it at people identifying her as a male homosexual, even if it that is not quite what she would prefer it.
*** Hana's physical gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like she could afford an opperation if she wanted one. Hana explicitly states that she’s a woman in her heart, and says that she always fantasized about being a mother with a husband. One of the implied reasons she’s so obsessed with motherhood and taking care of Kiyoko is that it’s a way she can be a woman; she can’t retroactively make it so she was born female, she can’t make it so people see her as a woman, but she can take care of a child. When Hana’s being melodramatic and talking about what she wants and how she wants to be seen, she uses feminine language. When’s she’s feeling down about herself or is referring to the way people see her, she uses masculine language. This alone is enough to qualify her as transgender.
*** I was under the impression that Hanna considers herself a woman at heart and probably would like to have an operation, but that since she doesn't have the money for that she just kinda rolls with it at people identifying her as a male homosexual, even if it that is not quite what she would prefer it.
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*** No, crossdresser. When they go the hospital, the doctor refers to Hana as "he" in conversation with Gin. Since he's giving advice on what Hana should do, he must have examined Hana before this conversation. Ergo, he knows Hana is physically male. Also, Hana uses the self-descriptions "homo" and "queer" several times. If Hana were a trans, she would identify herself as a heterosexual woman and wouldn't use those terms. (We know Hana prefers men because, as Miyuki notices, he loves Gin.) In the original Japanese, Hana uses the self-descripton self-description "okama", which is a slang term for a homosexual male, especially a crossdresser.
*** Hana's physical gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like she could afford anopperation operation if she wanted one. Hana explicitly states that she’s a woman in her heart, and says that she always fantasized about being a mother with a husband. One of the implied reasons she’s so obsessed with motherhood and taking care of Kiyoko is that it’s a way she can be a woman; she can’t retroactively make it so she was born female, she can’t make it so people see her as a woman, but she can take care of a child. When Hana’s being melodramatic and talking about what she wants and how she wants to be seen, she uses feminine language. When’s she’s feeling down about herself or is referring to the way people see her, she uses masculine language. This alone is enough to qualify her as transgender.
*** I was under the impression thatHanna Hana considers herself a woman at heart and probably would like to have an operation, but that since she doesn't have the money for that she just kinda rolls with it at people identifying her as a male homosexual, even if it that is not quite what she would prefer it.
*** Hana's physical gender has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like she could afford an
*** I was under the impression that
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Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
What of her friends? Does she have any? Her school. Does anyone know or care she's a homeless runaway now? Do they care? Miyuki's father/family makes sure to put out a newspaper message about her cat coming home so she'd be most likely to see it. Why are there no other messages such as that? Have there been?
Also, how did Miyuki come across Gin and Hana? The two adults obviously have friendly/"like an old married couple" chemistry and thus probably knew each other for a good length of time after meeting up one way or another. But why or how did Miyuki get lucky enough to run into this benign and protective pair of pseudo "hobo parents" instead of some gang or something? Two homeless dudes even decide to back off from dealing with her when they realize who she is, and thus who Miyuki keeps company with. Gin. Stating she's "the light of his life". How do they know this? Is Gin some sort of hobo badass and openly talks about how much he loves Miyuki like his own kid to other hobos? Why?
Also, how did Miyuki come across Gin and Hana? The two adults obviously have friendly/"like an old married couple" chemistry and thus probably knew each other for a good length of time after meeting up one way or another. But why or how did Miyuki get lucky enough to run into this benign and protective pair of pseudo "hobo parents" instead of some gang or something? Two homeless dudes even decide to back off from dealing with her when they realize who she is, and thus who Miyuki keeps company with. Gin. Stating she's "the light of his life". How do they know this? Is Gin some sort of hobo badass and openly talks about how much he loves Miyuki like his own kid to other hobos? Why?
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Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
We never know because her story isn't a focus and the movie ends just as Miyuki and her father meet up again in the hospital.
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I agreed.
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
Miyuki's arc feels incomplete. She's coincidentally met up with her policeman father again : What happens next ? We'll never know because the film ends right at this point. Hints of her past are given, her reaction to seeing her father in the train next to hers is running away... All that feels like it was building up to something that was axed from the movie.
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Miyuki's arc feels incomplete. She's coincidentally met up with her policeman father again : What happens next ? We'll never know because the film ends right at this point. Hints of her past are given, her reaction to seeing her father in the train next to hers is running away... All that feels like it was building up to something that was axed from the movie.movie.
** Agreed. Of the three her backstory is the least elaborated on. Super religious mom, father she felt frustrated with to the point she stabbed him when her cat was lost, thinking he did something to it...and what else? Was Miyiki's father actually abusive in some way to her, or passively neglectful? Did he hate her cat? Complain about it? Was she actually close to her mother, and is that why she openly makes fun of her/is dismissive of her now?
What of her friends? Does she have any? Her school. Does anyone know or care she's a homeless runaway now? Do they care? Miyuki's father/family makes sure to put out a newspaper message about her cat coming home so she'd be most likely to see it. Why are there no other messages such as that? Have there been?
Also, how did Miyuki come across Gin and Hana? The two adults obviously have friendly/"like an old married couple" chemistry and thus probably knew each other for a good length of time after meeting up one way or another. But why or how did Miyuki get lucky enough to run into this benign and protective pair of pseudo "hobo parents" instead of some gang or something? Two homeless dudes even decide to back off from dealing with her when they realize who she is, and thus who Miyuki keeps company with. Gin. Stating she's "the light of his life". How do they know this? Is Gin some sort of hobo badass and openly talks about how much he loves Miyuki like his own kid to other hobos? Why?
Also, how will Miyuki's adoptive "father and mother" interact with her actual parents?
We never know because her story isn't a focus and the movie ends just as Miyuki and her father meet up again in the hospital.
** Agreed. Of the three her backstory is the least elaborated on. Super religious mom, father she felt frustrated with to the point she stabbed him when her cat was lost, thinking he did something to it...and what else? Was Miyiki's father actually abusive in some way to her, or passively neglectful? Did he hate her cat? Complain about it? Was she actually close to her mother, and is that why she openly makes fun of her/is dismissive of her now?
What of her friends? Does she have any? Her school. Does anyone know or care she's a homeless runaway now? Do they care? Miyuki's father/family makes sure to put out a newspaper message about her cat coming home so she'd be most likely to see it. Why are there no other messages such as that? Have there been?
Also, how did Miyuki come across Gin and Hana? The two adults obviously have friendly/"like an old married couple" chemistry and thus probably knew each other for a good length of time after meeting up one way or another. But why or how did Miyuki get lucky enough to run into this benign and protective pair of pseudo "hobo parents" instead of some gang or something? Two homeless dudes even decide to back off from dealing with her when they realize who she is, and thus who Miyuki keeps company with. Gin. Stating she's "the light of his life". How do they know this? Is Gin some sort of hobo badass and openly talks about how much he loves Miyuki like his own kid to other hobos? Why?
Also, how will Miyuki's adoptive "father and mother" interact with her actual parents?
We never know because her story isn't a focus and the movie ends just as Miyuki and her father meet up again in the hospital.
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Trope is being renamed
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
Okay, I've watched the movie through, and I'm still not sure. Was Hana supposed to be a CampGay crossdresser, or a {{transsexual}}? It feels like the writers either couldn't decide, or didn't know there was actually a difference.
* I think she is a {{transsexual}}. She seems to identify with being a woman, as opposed to merely liking to dress in women clothes, so she is not just a crossdresser.
* I think she is a {{transsexual}}. She seems to identify with being a woman, as opposed to merely liking to dress in women clothes, so she is not just a crossdresser.
to:
Okay, I've watched the movie through, and I'm still not sure. Was Hana supposed to be a CampGay crossdresser, or a {{transsexual}}? {{Transgender}}? It feels like the writers either couldn't decide, or didn't know there was actually a difference.
* I think she isa {{transsexual}}.{{Transgender}}. She seems to identify with being a woman, as opposed to merely liking to dress in women clothes, so she is not just a crossdresser.
* I think she is
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
*** No, crossdresser. When they go the hospital, the doctor refers to Hana as "he" in conversation with Gin. Since he's giving advice on what Hana should do, he must have examined Hana before this conversation. Ergo, he knows Hana is physically male. Also, Hana uses the self-descriptions "homo" and "queer" several times. If Hana were a transsexual, she would identify herself as a heterosexual woman and wouldn't use those terms. (We know Hana prefers men because, as Miyuki notices, he loves Gin.) In the original Japanese, Hana uses the self-descripton "okama", which is a slang term for a homosexual male, especially a crossdresser.
to:
*** No, crossdresser. When they go the hospital, the doctor refers to Hana as "he" in conversation with Gin. Since he's giving advice on what Hana should do, he must have examined Hana before this conversation. Ergo, he knows Hana is physically male. Also, Hana uses the self-descriptions "homo" and "queer" several times. If Hana were a transsexual, trans, she would identify herself as a heterosexual woman and wouldn't use those terms. (We know Hana prefers men because, as Miyuki notices, he loves Gin.) In the original Japanese, Hana uses the self-descripton "okama", which is a slang term for a homosexual male, especially a crossdresser.
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
*** Yes, the doctor's identification of her physical sex has nothing to do with her gender, and a doctor wouldn't always use an individual's actual identity while referring to them. As for her usage of 'queer' and 'homo', 'queer' is basically an umbrella term for any non-straight sexual identity, and we don't know her previous attachments outside of Gin. Using 'homo' could be an exaggeration, or maybe Gin is even an exception and using the term while excluding him. It's hard to know, but she really seems to qualify as trans*.<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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*** Yes, the doctor's identification of her physical sex has nothing to do with her gender, and a doctor wouldn't always use an individual's actual identity while referring to them. As for her usage of 'queer' and 'homo', 'queer' is basically an umbrella term for any non-straight sexual identity, and we don't know her previous attachments outside of Gin. Using 'homo' could be an exaggeration, or maybe Gin is even an exception and using the term while excluding him. It's hard to know, but she really seems to qualify as trans*.<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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Added DiffLines:
Miyuki's arc feels incomplete. She's coincidentally met up with her policeman father again : What happens next ? We'll never know because the film ends right at this point. Hints of her past are given, her reaction to seeing her father in the train next to hers is running away... All that feels like it was building up to something that was axed from the movie.
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Added DiffLines:
** The problem is that Japanese and Japanese culture doesn’t work like we Westerners are accustomed to. The term used for Hana is ''okama'', which is anywhere from ‘somewhat effeminate gay man’ to ‘transwoman’--basically, ‘someone whose expected to adhere to masculine standards of behaviour and doesn’t’. The Japanese language is mostly non-gendered in the sense that there is a grammatical agreement based on gender in verbs and adjectives, and the modern, gendered third-person pronouns are often replaced by ''ano hito'' ‘that person’. However, women do use their own language patterns, in intonation, in added formality, in preference of native vocabulary over Sino-Japanese, and using feminine particles over male ones (e.g. feminine ''kashira'' instead of masculine ''kamo (shirenai)'', ‘maybe, I wonder’). So judging by the translation is something you should avoid in favour of listening to how she speaks Japanese, which, as far as I can recall, is very feminine.
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Added DiffLines:
**** I was under the impression that Hanna considers herself a woman at heart and probably would like to have an operation, but that since she doesn't have the money for that she just kinda rolls with it at people identifying her as a male homosexual, even if it that is not quite what she would prefer it.
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Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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****Yes, the doctor's identification of her physical sex has nothing to do with her gender, and a doctor wouldn't always use an individual's actual identity while referring to them. As for her usage of 'queer' and 'homo', 'queer' is basically an umbrella term for any non-straight sexual identity, and we don't know her previous attachments outside of Gin. Using 'homo' could be an exaggeration, or maybe Gin is even an exception and using the term while excluding him. It's hard to know, but she really seems to qualify as trans*.<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
