History Headscratchers / ThorRagnarok

** As ''Film/DoctorStrange2016'' has expanded, the mystic arts in the MCU is harnessing extra-dimensional energy to affect change in physical reality. Portals, shields, illusions, beams, yes even lightning or weapons from thin air. It's possible the Asgardian people with their longevity have adapted a natural genetic affinity for this (plus many cultural traditions increasing skill sets, as Frigga taught Loki), allowing their "God abilities" to be just very powerful mystic art abilities. In ''The Dark World'' Loki called out the fact they called themselves gods when really they were just exceptionally long-lived aliens to primitive cultures.

* The previous films especially ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' went out of their way to remove almost anything supernatural/magical about the Asgardians. They were supposed to be only a sort of advanced alien race mistaken as gods. Magic was almost a dirty word. The same with the rest of the nine worlds. Then you have ''Thor: Ragnarok''. Thor and Hela both insist on their godly titles to a point it comes across as something official instead of an nickname. Members of the royal family are far more powerful than other Asgardians for unknown reasons. Heimdall's powers transcend even psychic abilities. The mural in the throne room portrayed [[HolyHalo the royal family with halos.]] Ragnarok is some predestined in typically not found in sci-fi stories. Surtur came back from the dead thanks to being put in a magic fire which is typically found more in fantasy than science-fiction stories. For all the claims about the nine realms having advanced technology we saw very little of that outside of the bifrost. Neither Vaneheim, Musepelheim, or Jotunheim had anything like what is considered advanced tech in a sci-fi setting instead they are more fantasy. Thor also claimed Odin killed Surtur half a million years ago, which granted could be hyperbole, but unless it is a big one that means Odin is far older than five thousand years. Film/DoctorStrange2016 confirmed objects can be imbued with magical powers which is what seems Asgardians for the most part do. So, does the film make the Asgardians far more magical than the previous ones with only using more conventional scientific technology to fill in the blanks? Are the members in the royal family [[OurGodsAreGreater in a sense gods?]] Were certain aspects from the previous films retconned or at least downplayed? IIRC, Waititi stated he was treating this film as it it was the first Thor film and kind of ignoring the previous ones. So, did it change somethings to make the story closer to the comics where the Asgardians are supposed to be gods?

** Inhumans might be the answer, perhaps Asgardian royalty have a similar thing, but because of their advanced tech, they don't need Terragenesis to do so, coupled with the fact that Asgardians are stronger physiologically than humans, the powers they gain are much, '''much''' stronger, compare Thors ShockAndAwe powers to Lincolns from Series/AgentsOfSHIELD. As for magic, in Film/DoctorStrange, The Ancient One explicitly said that magic is the ability to channel dimensional energy from other dimensions, and compares it to a computer program, Magic in the MCU is simply hacking reality with a complex algorithm, With the movements and sigils being the keyboard.

* One of the important elements in the plot is that Hela cannot get off Asgard with her armies without the Bifrost bridge for transport. Even if she used ships it would still be inferior and possibly more costly to transport her armies that way. The big question is, since the Space Stone was in the treasure vault and she casually walked by it and even remarked on it, WHY IN THE HOLY HELL DIDN'T SHE USE IT AS A MEANS OF TRANSPORT! It's an infinity stone! Not just an infinity stone but THE SPACE STONE. The space stone is basically the [[UpToEleven Bifrost on steroids.]] When used properly, it can transport anyone or anything anywhere in the universe and create portals to anywhere. Now one argument might be that she didn't what it was but no, she clearly knew what it was based on her remarks saying it was "Not Bad" and calling the infinity gauntlet reproduction fake after casually knocking it off a pedestal. Second argument which is summarily shot down would be that she isn't strong enough to use it but since she is virtually indestructible and can shatter Mjölnir like glass, she's clearly strong enough to use it. That's a big fat plot hole right there.

** The movie treats Asgardians closer to their interpretation of gods versus SufficientlyAdvancedAliens. So Hela might be just Odin's creation like mythological Athena was to Zeus.

* Ghost Rider and Dormammu mean that legitimate demons exist in the MCU. So...are Hela and Surtur [[SufficientlyAdvancedAlien Sufficiently Advanced Aliens]] like all the Asgardians, or are they actual demons?

** "Weird" aliens able to dispel enchantments placed by Dr Strange so that the umbrella can become Mjolnir back at any moment Thor wishes to and still keeps the magical properties it originally had? Mjolnir is magical in nature, there's no way around it. The prophecy stuff is also nothing other than magic and fantasy at its best.

** Given that the Bifrost can transport multiple people to other planets in literally seconds, I think it's less about the fact that they don't believe in interstellar transport, and moreso the fact that they didn't really ''need'' them. After all, why would you want to deal with the hassle of fueling up a ship, coordinating jump points, and estimating when you're going to arrive when you can literally have some guy send you there and back immediately with no cost? As for why they didn't have any as an emergency...well, given that Asgardians are a mighty and proud race, it could just be that nobody considered the idea of having to evacuate their home and see it destroyed before their eyes, thus they never prepared for that fatality.

** FridgeBrilliance: Odin was speaking Asgardian in that scene. Maybe "god" is TranslationConvention for "superhero", as in "super when compared to other Asgardians".

** They pretty much straight-up state that Loki confounded Odin to forget his godhood and placed him in a retirement home in New York; you have to remember that as per Thor 1, Odin is increasingly old and vulnerable - he enters the Odinsleep largely due to an aggravated argument with his son - so caught off guard, Odin was probably easy pickings for his son's machinations. When Odin regained knowledge of who he was, he went to Norway to be alone and asked Doctor Strange to help maintain his privacy, knowing his time was coming to an end.

** Like kids need dream character to be alive and real. Don't you know kids who'd like to become wizard or pony princess?
** A dream character with a mark that the Prince of Asgard was able to recognize at first sight? And even if you argue that the myth included a thorough description of the mark they wielded, Thor recognizes her as one of the Valkyries when Korg mentions she's an Asgardian instead of thinking "Wow her mark really looks like those of the fictional Valkyries I used to dream with".
*** Thor doesn't recognize her as a Valkyrie until he sees the mark. And there are plenty of symbols you can recognize at first sight that belong to legendary or fictional characters, so why would it be so strange for Thor to do the same? The legend doesn't have to have a "thorough description." There are murals and such all over Asgard. Remember the book Odin shows Thor and Jane in the second movie? Lots of pictures in there. I would be very surprised if there wasn't pictures and murals of the valkyries somewhere in Asgard. Alternately, Thor's mother -- again, mentioned as the one who told stories to Loki and Thor -- could cast illusions just like Loki. She could've easily shown them. Perhaps Sif's campaign to become a warrior included her researching the valkyries (Thor does say he supported her).\\\

** As far as Odin knew all the Valkyries died in that final battle with Hela, it most likely added to his guilt over the whole mess with Hela caused him to not want to speak too much about them other than they were great heroes who gloriously died in battle defending Asgard. So Thor and Loki knew about them, heard about them...but details were vague about them.
** I'm guessing the "official" version is that the Valkyries died fighting Asgard's recurring foe, the Frost Giants.

*** She looks the same age as them because Sakaar exists outside of normal spacetime. I think it's in a deleted scene, but at one point the Grandmaster flippantly notes that if time worked on Sakaar like it did in the rest of the universe he'd be something like a million years old.

** Loki and Thor were knocked out of the rainbow bridge into normal space separately before falling into wormholes or other space portals leading to Sakaar. A difference in time flow through the different portals could account for this.

** Grandmaster literally says that time works different on Sakaar - and it's not that difficult to see that time appears to move ''faster'' on Sakaar, not slower, so that idea of "Hela spending weeks of Asgard during Sakaar shenanigans" doesn't really work out. Loki was booted out mere seconds before Thor, but that period was stretched into weeks on Sakaar, so logically, time passes more quickly on Sakaar.

** Also, keep in mind that The Ancient One, the most powerful and wise of the sorcerers, is dead, alongside God knows how many other practicioners. It's possible that the Sanctum Santorum started to become more proactive after it had sunk in that they are considerably less capable of protecting Earth thanks to the damage the Zealots caused.
** For all we know, they may have been dealing with an even greater mystical crysis. Thanos may well be aware of the existence of Sorcerers and have sent some other agents to keep them distracted and/or retrieve the Time Stone.
** Funnily enough, we may have gotten our answer years later. We see the Ancient One fending off aliens in Endgame. Her priority seems to be keeping the Sanctum safe.

** We're getting into another Headscratcher here but for the purposes of the films "Nine" Realms seems to refer specifically to Realms which are under Odin's control or protection. Hela describes some kind of war of conquest in the past whereby Odin brought all the realms under control, and we know Odin at the very least has the artifacts from Jotunheim and Muspelheim that would grant their rulers greater power, so he likely confiscated them as a means of keeping those realms under control. Midgard presumably also counts since Odin did have some control of it in ancient times at the very least and Thor still protects it today.

** The size of Asgard is less than obvious even in the comics. Essentially Asgard is supposed to be a separare dimension that is connected to Earth by the World Tree (which is shown to be more metaphorical in the first movie). In this dimension there is a continent roughly the size of North America floating in the sea of stars. On this continent there is the golden city of Asgard right at the edge and connected to the other eight realms by the Bifrost. The thing is, we almost only ever see the city. Even in the comics they sometimes pan back and show just the city floating in space, but they've never said that the rest of the huge continent isn't there. Even when Asgard is brought to Earth to float as a little city in Oklahoma, it's eventually shown that the rest of the huge continent is still floating where it always was. This is usually just a case of artist error, or just not being aware that the city is just a small part of Asgard. They tend to explain it away as saying that the fabled walls of Asgard (which the city typically isn't shown to have) are actually a dimensional barrier that separates the city from the rest of the continent, even if they're both still part of Asgard as a whole.

** They're still super-duper advanced sci-fi aliens, nothing's changed about that from Dark World to Ragnarok - they're just ''way'' more super-duper advanced and mysterious than what you'd expect from your conventional sci-fi aliens, to the point where it just honest-to-god looks like "magic". Even then, "magic" means something completely different all-in-all in the MCU world, as Doctor Strange shows us.

** Considering Infinity War set photos and the leaked trailer has him back as Banner again, I don't think it's really that big a problem.

** Presumably like the Casket of Ancient Winters it's just a symbol of Surter's power that Odin seized by right of conquest. Like the Casket, it has unique and dangerous properties but is unrelated to the Infinity Stones.
** Remember, at the end of ''Dark World'' Volstagg gives the Collector the Aether specifically because "it's not wise to have two Infinity Stones in the same place." The Tesseract is already on Asgard, so its vault is at capacity for Infinity Stones. The Eternal Flame is something else entirely.

* One of the important elements in the plot is that Hela cannot get off Asgard with her armies without the Bifrost bridge for transport. Even if she used ships it would still be inferior and possibly more costly to transport her armies that way. The big question is, since the tesseract was in the treasure vault and she casually walked by it and even remarked on it, WHY IN THE HOLY HELL DIDN'T SHE USE IT AS A MEANS OF TRANSPORT! It's an infinity stone! Not just an infinity stone but THE SPACE STONE. The space stone is basically the [[UpToEleven Bifrost on steroids.]] When used properly, it can transport anyone or anything anywhere in the universe and create portals to anywhere. Now one argument might be that she didn't what it was but no, she clearly knew what it was based on her remarks saying it was "Not Bad" and calling the infinity gauntlet reproduction fake after casually knocking it off a pedestal. Second argument which is summarily shot down would be that she isn't strong enough to use it but since she is virtually indestructible and can shatter Mjölnir like glass, she's clearly strong enough to use it. That's a big fat plot hole right there.

*** Actually Loki didn't manipulate the Tesseract. A team of scientist's influenced by the mind stone did. Scientist's given other worldly knowledge most likely given by Thanos to enable his attack. That’s not to say given time a bunch of Asgardian scientist's would not be able to do the same given the chance. The problem is Hela is not known for her patience, as well as most likely any or all Asgardian scientist who could do the job were slaughtered by Hela in her invasion, or went into hiding.

** Odin knew his time was short and that his death would unseal Hela's prison. He knew that the absolute worst thing he could do was die on Asgard, so he went somewhere far away from anyone.

* Odin dies on Earth. One minute later, Hela shows up. How did she get there? She was imprisoned in some far-off corner of the universe, right? And then she just teleports straight to Earth, somehow? I'd say that maybe she can just teleport because she's a goddess and maybe that's one of her powers...but no, that doesn't make sense, because later on it's established that she needs the Bifrost sword in order to go ''anywhere''. So if she can't teleport from Asgard to wherever, then how was she able to travel from her prison to Midgard?.

** Look, this isn't complicated. Hela and Thor have a finite amount of strength and stamina outside of Asgard like any other Asgardian. They can be worn down if they over exert themselves and need food and rest to replenish it. Hela, by virtue of being Odin's first born can draw energy from the land of Asgard itself. This lets her replenish her strength, stamina and heal wounds almost immediately without having to take time to rest. That is why the only way to defeat Hela was to either destroy the land of Asgard or get a being powerful enough to overwhelm her almost instantly. Thor does not feed off the worship of the Asgardian people. At best, they inspire him to fight, but it isn't the same as what Hela was doing. Without all that Thor and Hela still have an extremely high base strength and stamina level. It only takes longer for them to recover through food, rest, and other medical treatments.

** It is possible that Gungnir ability to be used as a Key may not be common knowledge outside of the higher ups in Asgardian society. Loki of course with his pursuit of knowledge would know. Possibly Heimdall, but Skurge did not know and it was in front of him. Hela may not be aware of its capabilities. Seeing how bloodthirsty she was it is most likely she never bothered to learn things not related to conquest and war. If she had known she would have used it, she did not so it was not used.

*** Odin has it at the end of Thor 1, he uses it to catch Thor as he's about to fall off the edge of Asgard.

** The Grandmaster doesn't really seem to care about what "his possessions" want as he only throws Thor to Hulk after he seems like a fun contender for Hulk to kill. She probably won against the Grandmaster's current champion and was offered the position, and the sadness/guilt probably made her accept.
** "Scrapper" is an ambiguous term -- meaning both "someone who works with scrap" in the sense of rubbish, and "someone who gets into scraps" in the sense of fights. I would guess the term was chosen deliberately for its double meaning -- after all, the first question Thor was asked on arrival was whether he was a fighter, or food. Everyone in Sakaar is a fighter. So Valkyrie probably did her time as a mid-card gladiator long before Hulk arrived, made a reputation, and won her freedom. Being a former gladiator would also explain how she ended up as Hulk's coach.
* Grandmaster specifically says: "Whoever defeats my champion shall his freedom win" (paraphrase). So at some point Valkyrie defeated her contemporary champion and earned her freedom, but with nowhere else to go just became Grandmaster's scrapper.

** Given how violent their lives can be, it's possible that few Asgardians reach old age (said to be about five thousand years). Also, perhaps there were some old individuals who remembered Hela but they were killed off in the disasters Asgard faced in the previous movies. Or they retired to other parts of outer space. It is indicated that Hela's time was quite a ways back in Asgard's history at least, given that the Valkyries got killed off by her long after she was first imprisoned and by modern times the Valkyries themselves are semi-mythic to the Asgardians.

* One thing I noticed is that the there appears to be no interstellar ships in the Asguard forces. When they travel they use the Bifrost even back when Odin was fighting on Earth. When they were evacuating from Asgard the only exit they had was the Bifrost in fact the only transport they got was from from another planet. Is it because the Asgadians were somewhat isolationists? Would explain why there no mass exits after Hela took over, its just a strange limitation to have.

*** Hawkeye shoots Loki in the head in hit introductory scene in ''The Avengers,'' so yes, he's bulletproof.

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** Thor seemed to believe that it would destroy the Tesseract, but he could have been wrong.

** In the Marvel universe, Asgardians do not occupy the exact same roles as the Norse gods they're based on. Thor just happens to have powers that produce electricity, so the ancient Norwegians dubbed him the god of thunder; Odin is the king of Asgardians, so he was assumed to be the supreme god; and so on. It's implied Hela used to serve as Odin's personal executioner, using her talents to kill Asgard's enemies in masses, and because of this, someone dubbed her "the goddess of the death". It seems that Hela was imprisoned long before the other Asgadians met ancient Scandinavians, so presumably they only heard some vague mentions of a "goddess of death" (since speaking about Hela seems to have been a taboo among the Asgardians), and assumed the title meant she literally rules the dead, so that's how they portrayed her in their mythology.

** In the Marvel universe, Asgardians do not occupy the exact same roles as the Norse gods they're based on. Thor just happens to have powers that produce electricity, so the ancient Norwegians dubbed him the god of thunder; Odin is the king of Asgardians, so he was assumed to be the supreme god; and so on. It's implied Hela used to serve as Odin's personal executioner, using her talents to kill Asgard's enemies in masses, and because of this, someone dubbed her "the goddess of the death". It seems that Hela was imprisoned long before the other Asgadians met ancient Scandinavians, so presumably they only heard stories about this "goddess of death", and assumed the title meant she literally rules the dead, so that's how they portrayed her in their mythology.