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*** He's '''Loki'''. Who's to say that the "Loki" that got shot at in that scene wasn't an illusory decoy, while the ''real'' Loki was sneaking around invisibly and spearing/zapping his opponents ''from behind''?
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** "Asgard, the place" refers specifically to the nation that was built from bloodshed and conquest, an imperialist power who built up its wealth and military dominance by swaying countless worlds. Hela, Odin's lieutenant during those campaigns, draws power from the death and destruction the nation was built on, and which still remain. Odin would later try to paper over this past, and evidently tried to turn his power towards diplomacy and mediation, using force to restore peace rather than conquer. Although Asgardians still enjoy the decadence and authority that their nation's past created, it's implied they also believe in nobler values than their predecessors. Hence why modern Asgardians don't even recognize Hela, and her armies are long-dead and rotting in the foundations of the Vault. So the death of one, a bunch, or possibly even all modern Asgardians wouldn't mean a thing to Hela.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Surviving artifacts from Odin's Vault]]
* The Destroyer, the Casket of Ancient Winters, and the Eternal Flame (at least) are pretty sturdy and powerful artifacts in the comics; would they have endured the destruction of Asgard and remained floating somewhere in the cosmos?
[[folder:Surviving artifacts from Odin's Vault]]
* The Destroyer, the Casket of Ancient Winters, and the Eternal Flame (at least) are pretty sturdy and powerful artifacts in the comics; would they have endured the destruction of Asgard and remained floating somewhere in the cosmos?
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Removed This Troper
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** There may well be sorcerers of some sort among the Asgardian population (or perhaps there were before their population took a massive downturn over the course of the deaths suffered in the movies). They are aware of magic users, and in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 we see that the use of Mystic Arts style magic is not restricted to Earth (an alien is seen doing something similar to mystic arts at the end of the movie). As for why we don't see it used on any large scale, it would seem to just not be a part of Asgard's culture, which prefers physical weapons and such. It's not like just anyone can use mystic arts either. Even with training, you seem to have to have innate skill to get much in the way of results. As for Dormammu, as this troper recalls he seemed to be mainly after Earth, not Asgard. Asgard's dimension may also just not be of any great interest to him for one reason or another, or due to some other as yet unknown protection he may not be able to assimilate it.
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** There may well be sorcerers of some sort among the Asgardian population (or perhaps there were before their population took a massive downturn over the course of the deaths suffered in the movies). They are aware of magic users, and in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 we see that the use of Mystic Arts style magic is not restricted to Earth (an alien is seen doing something similar to mystic arts at the end of the movie). As for why we don't see it used on any large scale, it would seem to just not be a part of Asgard's culture, which prefers physical weapons and such. It's not like just anyone can use mystic arts either. Even with training, you seem to have to have innate skill to get much in the way of results. As for Dormammu, as this troper recalls he seemed to be mainly after Earth, not Asgard. Asgard's dimension may also just not be of any great interest to him for one reason or another, or due to some other as yet unknown protection he may not be able to assimilate it.
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Can't believe it's been written "Gamemaster" this long...
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[[folder: The Gamemaster's cousin]]
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[[folder: The Gamemaster's Grandmaster's cousin]]
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** She's the Goddess of ''Inflicting'' Death, not the Goddess of ''Reversing'' it.
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Headscratchers are Spoilers Off
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** Funnily enough, we may have gotten our answer years later. [[spoiler: We see the Ancient One fending off aliens in Endgame. Her priority seems to be keeping the Sanctum safe.]]
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** Funnily enough, we may have gotten our answer years later. [[spoiler: We see the Ancient One fending off aliens in Endgame. Her priority seems to be keeping the Sanctum safe.]]
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** Funnily enough, we may have gotten our answer years later. [[spoiler: We see the Ancient One fending off aliens in Endgame. Her priority seems to be keeping the Sanctum safe.]]
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** Thor and Hulk are around the same strength level. If something can completely knock out Thor, chances are it can do the same to the Hulk.
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** It's probably safe to assume that not every species have access to the same magic, just as not every alien has access to the same advanced technology. The Asgardians use magic similar to what you'd find in Norse mythology: illusions, glamours, shape shifting, enchantments, and prophecy, not so much energy control and dimensional manipulation. Assuming Earth magic is superior or more advanced than Asgardian magic rather than just different, that can be explained by the Sorcerer Supreme being a human.
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** Loki survived being jettisoned from a flying chariot by an exploding arrow and getting Looney Tuned by the Hulk in The Avengers without so much as a lasting injury. Tanking a fall at terminal velocity is well within his capabilities.
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** The movie's clearly trying to make a distinction between the sort of people Odin/Thor and Hela are. Hela gets her power from Asgard, the place, but the true Asgard is its people.
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** I was confused by this as well. The powers that she displays in the film were taken from a different character, Gor the God Butcher. Why they chose to merge the two is anyone's guess.
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* So...is 'Goddess of Death' just a flowery title because she used to kill a lot of people? It's only via the Eternal Flame that she revives Fenris and the dead warriors, so she doesn't seem to have any death-related powers of her own. This also raises the question of why Thor explicitly has powers over thunder and lightning, but Hela's unique power seems to be...making lots of swords.
[[/folder]]
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** Plus they draw attention repeatedly to the fact that sheer force won't work. Hela gets impaled on a huge sword when fighting the army and heals nigh instantly, and gets hit point blank by what Thor calls the most powerful thunderbolt he's ever used and yet gets right back up.
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** In traditional Norse mythology, Odin is primarily the god of war and wisdom. So we see him attempting to impart wisdom to his children and that his warring days are over. He is also god of poetry (perhaps why he's seen as normal for watching the play about Loki) and divination (having given up his eye to see the future), though his loss of eye was changed in the MCU (but not the comics) to him losing it in the final battle with Jotunheim.
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** It is established in the first ''Thor'' that Loki can hide from Heimdall's super sight whenever he wishes to. Heimdall doesn't see him when Loki doesn't want him to, like when he goes to parley with Laufey or goes to see Thor on Earth. So in ''Ragnarok'' that small exchange means Loki chose not to hide any more and actually allowed Heimdall to see him approaching Asgard with the gladiators.
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Headscratchers are Spoilers Off
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** Considering [[spoiler:Infinity War set photos and the leaked trailer has him back as Banner again, I don't think it's really that big a problem.]]
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** Considering [[spoiler:Infinity Infinity War set photos and the leaked trailer has him back as Banner again, I don't think it's really that big a problem.]]
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** Hela doesn't just need the Bifrost to teleport herself, she needs it so she can teleport her entire undead army. Its likely she can teleport herself no problem, which would explain how she shows up after Odin dies (and hopefully, [[spoiler:that gives a chance that she could have escaped at the last second before she was killed)]].
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** Hela doesn't just need the Bifrost to teleport herself, she needs it so she can teleport her entire undead army. Its likely she can teleport herself no problem, which would explain how she shows up after Odin dies (and hopefully, [[spoiler:that that gives a chance that she could have escaped at the last second before she was killed)]].killed).
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** TheReveal that [[spoiler: Mjolnir is just a conduit for Thor's innate powers and thus has no power of its own]] means the Enchantment is non-existent. This DOES make hash of established continuity, but it also explains how can Hela wield it.
*** No, it doesn't mean the enchantment is non-existent. That logic doesn't follow. It just means the hammer is a [[spoiler: conduit for Thor's Lightning powers but has nothing to do with the ability to lift it]]. Hela wielding Mjonir is even simpler to explain. Odin put the enchantment on the Hammer in Thor 1, long after Hela originally held it. Hela then stops it with her bare hands after Odin's death. Odin's death explicitly stopped the magic that was holding Hela, why wouldn't it also lift the enchantment?
*** No, it doesn't mean the enchantment is non-existent. That logic doesn't follow. It just means the hammer is a [[spoiler: conduit for Thor's Lightning powers but has nothing to do with the ability to lift it]]. Hela wielding Mjonir is even simpler to explain. Odin put the enchantment on the Hammer in Thor 1, long after Hela originally held it. Hela then stops it with her bare hands after Odin's death. Odin's death explicitly stopped the magic that was holding Hela, why wouldn't it also lift the enchantment?
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** TheReveal that [[spoiler: Mjolnir is just a conduit for Thor's innate powers and thus has no power of its own]] own means the Enchantment is non-existent. This DOES make hash of established continuity, but it also explains how can Hela wield it.
*** No, it doesn't mean the enchantment is non-existent. That logic doesn't follow. It just means the hammer is a[[spoiler: conduit for Thor's Lightning powers but has nothing to do with the ability to lift it]].it. Hela wielding Mjonir is even simpler to explain. Odin put the enchantment on the Hammer in Thor 1, long after Hela originally held it. Hela then stops it with her bare hands after Odin's death. Odin's death explicitly stopped the magic that was holding Hela, why wouldn't it also lift the enchantment?
*** No, it doesn't mean the enchantment is non-existent. That logic doesn't follow. It just means the hammer is a
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** First of all, Banner already went through exactly that in ''Incredible Hulk''. Jumped out of helicopter, smacked into the ground, Hulked out, and then he was Banner again. Second, SPOILERS, we see Banner back in human form in trailer for Infinity War.
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** First of all, Banner already went through exactly that in ''Incredible Hulk''. Jumped out of helicopter, smacked into the ground, Hulked out, and then he was Banner again. Second, SPOILERS, we see Banner back in human form in trailer for Infinity War.
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*** Sure it does -- he was more concerned about being ''pursued'' than he was about being ''blocked''.
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*** That doesn't really hold up, given that when trying to escape, you should watch your path for obstacles.
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** He definitely should have at least warned the Avengers about Hela's coming, since when he died, he knew he would be leaving her loose to roam about Earth. Though it seems he waited for his sons to find him before he died. But short answer is yes, he endangered a lot of people by not communicating with them until it was too late.
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* How come Thor didn't recognize Stan Lee when he was about to cut his hair? The two clearly met each other at the party in ''Age of Ultron'', and ''Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2'' implies that all the Stan Lee cameos in the MCU are the same character popping up everywhere. Couldn't he have said something like "Wait, don't I know you from somewhere?"
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* How come Thor didn't recognize Stan Lee when he was about to cut his hair? The two clearly met each other at the party in ''Age of Ultron'', and ''Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2'' implies that all the Stan Lee cameos in the MCU are the same character popping up everywhere. Couldn't he have said something like "Wait, don't I know you from somewhere?"somewhere?
** Thor has fought in countless battles and attended countless parties. He's been doing this for hundreds and hundreds of years. One random party guest who couldn't hold his liquor isn't going to stick out in his mind. Besides, he's too preoccupied with the shaky-handed man coming at him with a weed wacker to think of whether he's seen a similar looking man before.
** Thor has fought in countless battles and attended countless parties. He's been doing this for hundreds and hundreds of years. One random party guest who couldn't hold his liquor isn't going to stick out in his mind. Besides, he's too preoccupied with the shaky-handed man coming at him with a weed wacker to think of whether he's seen a similar looking man before.
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*** [[https://i.redd.it/2x0pe6jxx8r01.jpg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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*** [[https://i.redd.it/2x0pe6jxx8r01.jpg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows MCU Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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Other link was just as bad but this should be it
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*** [[https://i.imgur.com/z1UquJc.jpg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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*** [[https://i.imgur.com/z1UquJc.redd.it/2x0pe6jxx8r01.jpg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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Better quality
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*** [[https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/9a434a8e_0e70_462d_9cb5_afab974726ea.jpeg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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*** [[https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/9a434a8e_0e70_462d_9cb5_afab974726ea.jpeg [[https://i.imgur.com/z1UquJc.jpg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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*** [[https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/9a434a8e_0e70_462d_9cb5_afab974726ea.jpeg This]] concept art from Ragnarok actually shows Asgard really being just the main city with a couple of square kilometers of mountains.
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** The size of Asgard is less than obvious even in the comics. Essentially Asgard is supposed to be a separare dimension that is connected to Earth by the World Tree (which is shown to be more metaphorical in the first movie). In this dimension there is a continent roughly the size of North America floating in the sea of stars. On this continent there is the golden city of Asgard right at the edge and connected to the other eight realms by the Bifrost. The thing is, we almost only ever see the city. Even in the comics they sometimes pan back and show just the city floating in space, but they've never said that the rest of the huge continent isn't there. Even when Asgard is brought to Earth to float as a little city in Oklahoma, it's eventually shown that the rest of the huge continent is still floating where it always was. This is usually just a case of artist error, or just not being aware that the city is just a small part of Asgard. They tend to explain it away as saying that the fabled walls of Asgard (which the city typically isn't shown to have) are actually a dimensional barrier that separates the city from the rest of the continent, even if they're both still part of Asgard as a whole.
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** Right, people took "on my world they are one and the same" to mean that magic is just super-advanced technology, where what he was really saying is that spells and enchantments are just as real as science and technology, and Asgardians don't differentiate them. Just because you can explain and recreate the effects with science doesn't mean they didn't just do it by wiggling their fingers and saying a spell.
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** Not really. Surtur seems very pleased with the prospect of destroying Asgard and fulfilling the prophecy, and seems comfortable with the fact that it also entails his death. Surtur's plan wasn't to rule over the ruins of Asgard; he wanted to obliterate Asgard after he had his fun stomping around and trashing the place. It's hard to feel bad for him when he dies exactly the way he wanted to.
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*** Alternately, it's possible that whatever dimensional space Strange stuck Loki in for those 30 minutes doesn't have any gravity, in which case Loki would not have accelerated any during that time.
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** As first born she was entitled to the power of Asgard. So when she returned Asgard empowered her. That is why they had to use Sultar to destroy her. As long as Asgard stood, she could draw power from it making her unstoppable.
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** As first born she was entitled to the power of Asgard. So when she returned Asgard empowered her. That is why they had to use Sultar Surtur to destroy her. As long as Asgard stood, she could draw power from it making her unstoppable.
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*** This is incorrect. Technically, 200 individuals in mated pairs is the minimum requirement to ensure genetic diversity.
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** As first born she was entitled to the power of Asguard. So when she returned Asguard empowered her. That is why they had to use Sultar to destroy her. As long as Asguard stood, she could draw power from it making her unstoppable.
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** As first born she was entitled to the power of Asguard. Asgard. So when she returned Asguard Asgard empowered her. That is why they had to use Sultar to destroy her. As long as Asguard Asgard stood, she could draw power from it making her unstoppable.
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** As first born she was entitled to the power of Asguard. So when she returned Asguard empowered her. That is why they had to use Sultar to destroy her. As long as Asguard stood, she could draw power from it making her unstoppable.
