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**** Palpatine may not yet know about the Force Dyad, but he has to be aware that Ren and Rey share a potent Force bond. Also, Ren was growing increasingly independant and irreverent, which likely didn't help Palpatine's odds of success. Chances are, he was concerned that Rey could sense the Senat taking over Ren and help him fight off the possession. Since he had only one attempt he then erred on the side of caution and decided to first remove the troublemaker and weaken Ren's resolve in one swoop.
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**** Then why did he stop Kylo from killing him in the very start of the movie? He was certainly neck deep in the Dark Side at that moment.
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** Not sure if the new canon has come down on this, but in ''Legends'', cloning Force-Sensitives isn't terribly easy. [[Literature/TheThrawnTrilogy Joruus C'baoth]] was insane, Luuke was just an extension of him, and [[VideoGame/TheForceUnleashedII Rham Kota]] insists cloning a Jedi is ''impossible'' (the game shows it isn't, but the vast majority of Starkiller clones were warped and unimpressive). Snoke may have been so physically twisted because cloning a Force-Sensitive is just that hard, and the rejects were completely nonviable. Snoke may be powerful with the Force, but his twisted physicality makes him very poorly suited to face-to-face confrontations, as Ben proved in ''The Last Jedi''.
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** Not sure if the new canon has come down on this, but in ''Legends'', cloning Force-Sensitives isn't terribly easy. [[Literature/TheThrawnTrilogy Joruus C'baoth]] was insane, Luuke was just an extension of him, and [[VideoGame/TheForceUnleashedII [[VideoGame/TheForceUnleashed Rham Kota]] insists cloning a Jedi is ''impossible'' (the game shows it isn't, but the vast majority of Starkiller clones were warped and unimpressive). Snoke may have been so physically twisted because cloning a Force-Sensitive is just that hard, and the rejects were completely nonviable. Snoke may be powerful with the Force, but his twisted physicality makes him very poorly suited to face-to-face confrontations, as Ben proved in ''The Last Jedi''.
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*** It would make sense as a feature if Palpatine really did want to end the empire, but if not, it simply destroys all his resources and everything he'd actually rule over. Yes, there's a possibility that a not-insignificant portion of his forces would go rogue in the event of his death and not return to working under him if he returned a few months later, but Operation Cinder requires his men to be fanatically loyal enough to commit mass-suicide/genocide in his name, and his Final Order plan is largely reliant on his men (and their descendants) becoming loyal to him again after decades of his absensce. (sure, Snoke or later Kylo's cooperation could have eased the transition, but he's giving these people planet-destroying weapons, so he clearly has great confidence in his subordinates' loyalty) And if he needs to string his followers along for a few months, there's no reason he couldn't have the same mechanisms that ordered Operation Cinder give other, less destructive orders to buy time. If he hadn't implemented Operation Cinder before his death and returned as soon as possible, all odds were he'd simply still have an empire and wouldn't need any of this shadow-plotting and new conquests. Plus, as detailed [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcNZbqy6ae8&pp=ygUfd2h5IHRoZSBmaXJzIHRvcmRlciBjb3VsZCBuZXZlcg%3D%3D here,]] Operation Cinder, even failing early on as it did, effectively doomed his Final Order plan to fail, because it destroyed most of his forces and loyalty amongst the galaxy, meaning his "rule" of the galaxy would consist entirely of his fleet of planet-destroying ships (if he could even staff them,) which is not a remotely feasible way to rule a galaxy for a number of reasons. The "self-imposed challenge" idea makes a degree of internal sense, but is clearly at odds with Palpatine's [[PragmaticVillainy approach to and desires of ruling,]] and the Sith's general goal of ruling ''the galaxy,'' not a few hundred post-apocalyptic planets.
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**** Killing all the loyalists was an intended feature, not a bug; its part of the Operation's very purpose. The Empire was designed around Palpatine's leadership/administrative skills, but the longer he cannot exert his influence over his servants the more likely their blind obedience would evaporate due to various factors. Besides, Palpatine almost certainly couldn't imagine being killed before the perfection of the transference's process; he probably made preparations for the Operation and then never spared it a thought afterwards.
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*** Arguably, Palpatine never needed Rey until after Ben Solo got redeemed since so far it seems that Palpatine was molding Kylo Ren into a perfect host body for himself. Ren is a scion of the most powerful Force bloodline ever, is in great physical condition and is a darksider that is too mentally unstable to resist the possession. Because of Rey, and later Leia, his grip on Ben grew increasingly loose, hence the urgent need for a suitable replacement. Rey was actually his last minute choice; before, he wanted her dead to get Ben back under his control.
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**** Eh, Ren was never entirely at ease with the Dark Side; neither was he Palpatine's apprentice: however, what Palpatine wanted with his gambits is to bait Skywalkers into making the wrong decisions that he could benefit from. More importantly, Ren has no real reason to believe that he would actually be able to stab Palpatine with the lightsaber. Between (very sickly looking) Snoke once subduing him the moment he wanted to attack, his own ability to freeze things in place and his broad understanding of Palpatine's mastery of the Force the probability of him losing to the Emperor is uncomfortably high. Also, he may have been emotionally compromised by the unsetting revelation Palpatine dropped on him some minutes prior. As for Rey, Ren's actions suggest that he sincerely believes that converting her is something he could do, not without some good reasons: Dark Side leaning genetics, Force dyad, traumatic background and the knowledge that she was previously tempted to join him. With her for a back-up, Ren's chances to beat Palpatine are much better; besides, Rey's very presence could be a vital distraction Ren would have needed to win, just as it previously worked with Snoke.
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** ''TheLast Jedi'' takes place over a short timespan. It is almost real time. In the long afternoon of conflict, Lando might have simply busy doing something else where he was out of contact. Depending on where he was in the Galaxy, Lando might have been asleep, he went to bed at night before the evacuation and woke in the morning to find it was all over and everyone had ran away and it was too late to help.
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** ''TheLast ''The Last Jedi'' takes place over a short timespan. It is almost real time. In the long afternoon of conflict, Lando might have simply busy doing something else where he was out of contact. Depending on where he was in the Galaxy, Lando might have been asleep, he went to bed at night before the evacuation and woke in the morning to find it was all over and everyone had ran away and it was too late to help.
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** From an out of universe angle, they may not have wanted to spoil the surprise of him coming back, or they hadn't finished negotiations to get him onboard. In universe, Lando is many things, but reckless isn't among them. He may have laid low, said nothing, and quietly begun gathering others by pulling in favors, seeking out others brave enough to fight, finding old hands from the Alliance (such as Hera Syndulla and Dash Rendar, along with General Antilles), and only started making his move once he saw he had a chance
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** From an out of universe angle, they may not have wanted to spoil the surprise of him coming back, or they hadn't finished negotiations to get him onboard. In universe, Lando is many things, but reckless isn't among them. He may have laid low, said nothing, and quietly begun gathering others by pulling in favors, seeking out others brave enough to fight, finding old hands from the Alliance (such as Hera Syndulla and Dash Rendar, along with General Antilles), and only started making his move once he saw he had a chance chance.
** ''TheLast Jedi'' takes place over a short timespan. It is almost real time. In the long afternoon of conflict, Lando might have simply busy doing something else where he was out of contact. Depending on where he was in the Galaxy, Lando might have been asleep, he went to bed at night before the evacuation and woke in the morning to find it was all over and everyone had ran away and it was too late to help.
** ''TheLast Jedi'' takes place over a short timespan. It is almost real time. In the long afternoon of conflict, Lando might have simply busy doing something else where he was out of contact. Depending on where he was in the Galaxy, Lando might have been asleep, he went to bed at night before the evacuation and woke in the morning to find it was all over and everyone had ran away and it was too late to help.
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** ''Rogue One'' answers this. At the end we see several ships trying to jump to hyperspace when Vader's ship pops out in front of them. Some of them make it and blip on out of there, some of them splatter across the hull of the Star Destroyer, and some bounce off and are merely damage. None of them were in the milisecond precise phase needed to obliterate themselves and Vader. Space ships in ''Star Wars'' are incredibly durable, and habitually fall out of orbit and land with minimal to no damage, so they are clearly made with superior materials to what we have that have very different breaking properties. Finally, Rebels and Resistance have small starship budgets and, aside from fanatics like Saw, don't see the point of wasting them in suicide attacks that have low-to-no chance of success; not when they are better used in conventional attacks. It is possible even Holdo didn't think she'd get so lucky as to one shot the Supremacy like that, and just thought it would be a conventional ram attack that bought a little time.
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*** Point, but both of those instances were gambits to pull a lightsider to the dark side, which obviously doesn't apply to Ren (would a Sith like Palpatine even want an apprentice who won't try to strike him down when he's seemingly helpless?). And yes, Palpatine's survival proves he has a power; to resurrect himself in weaker bodies, and clearly through the labs on Exegol, so Ren probably has the upper hand now, but Rey remains a long-shot (especially since killing Snoke should have probably emboldened Kylo; he didn't need Rey specifically for the actual killing, just a good diversion. Rey helped with the guards a afterwards, but after that, the FO was Ren's.)
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*** Then Palpatine dropped the ball by having Operation Cinder activate immediately after his apparent death. The Empire was still in a pretty good position after Endor, so a delay of a few months in case there's some kind of delay in this untested process or miscommunication would have been an obviously invaluable pre-caution and cost almost nothing. Then again, so would a lot of things Palpatine failed to do during his reign. Overconfidence is his weakness, after all.
*** In his defence, starting Operation Cinder immediately has the benefit of preventing his loyalists to grow too independent for carrying it out. After a few months, some of his forces would be destroyed by the Rebellion and/or infighting, while others might well decide to do their own thing as Moff Gideon kindly demonstrated. Moreover, Palpatine might have actually wanted to try and build an empire from grounds up as an intellectual challenge, so prematurely wiping out Galactic Empire might have been a feature in his eyes, not an oversight.
*** In his defence, starting Operation Cinder immediately has the benefit of preventing his loyalists to grow too independent for carrying it out. After a few months, some of his forces would be destroyed by the Rebellion and/or infighting, while others might well decide to do their own thing as Moff Gideon kindly demonstrated. Moreover, Palpatine might have actually wanted to try and build an empire from grounds up as an intellectual challenge, so prematurely wiping out Galactic Empire might have been a feature in his eyes, not an oversight.
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*** Then Palpatine dropped the ball by having Operation Cinder activate immediately after his apparent death. The Empire was still in a pretty good position after Endor, so a delay of a few months in case there's some kind of delay in this untested process or miscommunication would have been an obviously invaluable pre-caution and cost almost nothing. Then again, so would a lot of things Palpatine failed to do during his reign. Overconfidence is his weakness, after all. \n (though by that logic, he probably wouldn't have made Operation Cinder in the first place, because he wasn't expecting to die soon and would have expected his ressurection to fail even less.)
*** In his defence, starting Operation Cinder immediately has the benefit of preventing his loyaliststo grow from growing too independent for carrying it out. After a few months, some of his forces would be destroyed by the Rebellion and/or infighting, while others might well decide to do their own thing as Moff Gideon kindly demonstrated. Moreover, Palpatine might have actually wanted to try and build an empire from grounds up as an intellectual challenge, so prematurely wiping out Galactic Empire might have been a feature in his eyes, not an oversight.
*** Operation Cinder, had it suceeded, would have ''killed'' all his loyalists, which is obviously a bigger problem than what losses the rebels or infighting could inflict in a few months, or the ''possibility'' that some might go rogue. And if he is concerned about some of his follower's loyalty, what makes him think they'd go through with such an insane order and not either turn on the rest of the Empire at once or pull a ScrewThisImOuttaHere?
*** In his defence, starting Operation Cinder immediately has the benefit of preventing his loyalists
*** Operation Cinder, had it suceeded, would have ''killed'' all his loyalists, which is obviously a bigger problem than what losses the rebels or infighting could inflict in a few months, or the ''possibility'' that some might go rogue. And if he is concerned about some of his follower's loyalty, what makes him think they'd go through with such an insane order and not either turn on the rest of the Empire at once or pull a ScrewThisImOuttaHere?
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**** In his defence, starting Operation Cinder immediately has the benefit of preventing his loyalists to grow too independent for carrying it out. After a few months, some of his forces would be destroyed by the Rebellion and/or infighting, while others might well decide to do their own thing as Moff Gideon kindly demonstrated. Moreover, Palpatine might have actually wanted to try and build an empire from grounds up as an intellectual challenge, so prematurely wiping out Galactic Empire might have been a feature in his eyes, not an oversight.
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** In addition, though it’s unknown if Rey is aware of the specifics like this, her father was actually a failed cloning experiment using some of Palpatine’s genetic material — not just a child of his, in the biological sense. In terms of personal identity, her ties to the Palpatine name are only as substantiated as those of the prequel-era clone troopers to Jango Fett.
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** He also referred to him as Darth Sidious in the last movie, when he was still alive, so maybe he found out in between trilogies when searching for artifacts related to the Force.
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*** Cost-benefit analysis still says "kill Palpatine now" because he might not have gotten the chance to later. Being able to walk right up to Palpatine could have been a sign that Palpatine had an ace up his sleeve, but it was more likely a sign of good faith and overconfidence from a man who believes he can easily control anyone close to the dark side. If Palpatine stays dead; great. If not, then he'll likely come back even weaker than he currently is (if he was strong and this current body is a ruse, he wouldn't have hidden so long or need Ren's help) and since the Exegol labs are clearly the basis of both his army and ressurective powers, dismantling and razing them them would almost certainly keep him dead. The ability to recruit Rey was a long shot, and an alliance with someone less powerful being able to provide a better opportunity to kill Palpatine than is currently in front of Ren was a longer one.
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*** Then Palpatine dropped the ball by having Operation Cinder activate immediately after his apparent death. The Empire was still in a pretty good position after Endor, so a delay of a few months in case there's some kind of delay in this untested process or miscommunication would have been an obviously invaluable pre-caution and cost almost nothing. Then again, so would a lot of things Palpatine failed to do during his reign. Overconfidence is his weakness, after all.
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** Ren is impulsive, but not a fool. Surely he realised the oddity of being permitted to just waltz to Palpatine's inner sanctum unnoposed without anyone doing anything to impede him; he also knows Palpatine already managed to cheat death somehow but does not know the specifics. So he realises that the Emperor has an ace up his sleeve and he is at the disadvantage. When Palpatine mentions Rey, Kylo is inspired to turn her to his side to better his chances and thus pretends to accept the deal with her grandad.
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** Basically Palpatine was baiting Rey into going along with his plan by using her friends as hostages. If she refuses, the Resistance is blown to tiny bits. If she agrees, then there is a chance Rey could resist the resulting posession long enough to order the fleet to cease fire and let her friends escape.
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** It is possible Palpatine intended for Operation Cinder to burn everything in the specific case of his transferance failing outright. It didn't, but we know it was imperfect; Palpatine may not have regained his mind in time to stop his contingency plan from commencing.
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** In addition, while Rey's life circumstances aren't those that anyone would be very quick to ask for, they don't really seem that bad if you go back and watch ''The Force Awakens''. She has to salvage and trade parts from old starships in exchange for food, true, but look at her otherwise. She seems to have her own private place to live, she's healthy, smart, well-spoken, courteous, and strong-willed, she can defend herself, she's a half-decent pilot, she knows her way around starships... It's hinted that she could find a way off of Jakku whenever she wanted, and is only remaining there because she thinks her parents will come back for her.
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** In addition, while Rey's life circumstances aren't those that anyone would be very quick to ask for, ideal, they don't really seem that bad if you go back and watch ''The Force Awakens''. She has to salvage and trade parts from old starships in exchange for food, true, but look at her otherwise. She seems to have her own private place to live, she's healthy, smart, well-spoken, courteous, and strong-willed, she can defend herself, she's a half-decent pilot, she knows her way around starships... It's hinted almost implied that she could find a way off of can leave Jakku whenever she wanted, wants, and is only remaining there because when she thinks her parents will come back for her.does she gets handed an impromptu job offer from Han Solo.
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** According to the novel ''Shadow of the Sith'', Rey's parents didn't leave her on Jakku to hide her from Palpatine. They hid her there temporarily to keep her safe from Ochi, just until they were able to shake him off and meet up with Luke and Lando, and then they were planning to go back and get her. They chose Jakku because they had had a working relationship with Unkar Plutt when they lived there before, and he was the only person they could trust to look after Rey.
